Lifetime's VC Andrews Movies Topic (Flowers In The Attic, The Dollangangers, The Casteels, etc) - General Discussion

[CountryGirl]

9 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I have to say they cast handsome men in this movie series, the actors playing Paul, Beau and he groundskeeper (I cannot remember his name). I am pleased.

His name was Buck and yes, he was quite nice to look at it. 

[CountryGirl]

@andromeda331 - I agree with everything you wrote, including the sole reason to read Gates of Paradise when Fanny takes on Tony Tatterton and wins. 

[Daisy]

1 hour ago, KaveDweller said:

And didn't Paul's parents know? I don't remember their story in the books, but obviously his mother knows she didn't give birth to him, even if she doesn't know the full story. And his father certainly knows who he knocked up. Why not tell his son to avoid dating his sister?

But yeah, I don't get why she wouldn't tell Ruby earlier. I get why Paul's parents and Pierre/Daphne would want the truth quiet, but I don't see any reason Grandmere Catherine would care.

Gladys was full on cuckoobananas. She actually thought she gave birth to Paul (to the point she peed herself to makebelieve her water broke). So who knows there. (Though Octavian should have put the Heismann on that)

[TattleTeeny]

On 3/20/2021 at 10:49 PM, Scarlett45 said:

So what did we THINK???

 

When Ruby got chained up by Jack I said “You better break that bed a part girl!!” And when she wacked that guy with the lock I cheered. 
 

I think  Raechelle Banno, who is portraying Ruby and Giselle is doing a great job- they are distinctly different characters. 
 

Also I remembered from the Casteel series how it had “1970s vibes” but they were trying to keep it open as far as the style, more like “1970s inspired”.  This felt very “1960s inspired”- outside of the cars and the lack of cell phones you’d have no idea what year it was. 
 

Im having fun!! My mom was yelling “girl you can’t marry your brother!” (Paul Tate was pretty good looking though)

 

Cant wait until tomorrow!

 

Edited to add- silly me, Raechelle Banno isn’t as as good an actress as I thought, she has an identical twin sister Karina Banno who’s playing Giselle!!!

 

It’s so weird—I thought the Ruby was so much better looking that the Giselle. Maybe the lack of lipstick works for her? Also, I liked a lot of the clothes, but it looked like they all came from ModCloth, haha!

Edited March 23, 2021 by TattleTeeny

[Scarlett45]

14 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

It’s so weird—I thought the Ruby was so much better looking that the Giselle. Maybe the lack of lipstick works for her? Also, I liked a lot of the clothes, but it looked like they all came from ModCloth, haha!

Styling can make a big difference.Giselle was supposed to look harsher and vampy, Ruby was supposed to be beautiful and pure. 

I do think that Raechelle and Karina have faces that look better with softer makeup.  Karina’s lips are too slim to carry off such dark lips IMO, a fushia or a Berry would’ve been bold but suited her features and coloring much better than a deep red. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

13 hours ago, qtpye said:

Yeah, it is not like if I find out today that my brother is not biologically related to me that I will automatically be like "Cool, let's date".

We have grown up as brother and sister and biology does not really matter...we will always see each other as siblings.

It was almost like the ghost writer thought the most compelling thing about the Flowers in the Attic series was the incest. No, the most compelling thing was that it was a decent story. The incest was just a product of how damaged and horrible the family unit had become.

It certainly did not mean that every VC heroine from now on will have to fall in love with her brother.

 

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I think your right about that. He throws it in just because. Flowers in the Attic and Heaven series it wasn't just thrown in there. Cathy and Chris were because of what happened to them while Heaven and Troy didn't know. He throws in the brother in love with his sister often because it was in Flowers in the Attic. Chris never woud have fallen in love with Cathy if not for the events in the attic. He throws in a mean sister because Heaven had one. But Heaven's and Fanny's relationship was more then that. They both were products of their crappy childhood and abuse and you could see why they had issues with each other. But deep down they both loved each other. Why did Clara Sue hate Dawn? Who knows. Giselle could have had reasons to hate Ruby since Giselle had been force to learn she had a twin and Daphne wasn't her mother but the Ghostwriter never brings them up. Flowers in the Attic had a book from the point of view of Cathy's sons, so we got Christie and Pearl. But we could see how the trauma Cathy and Chris went through was still affecting them and affecting their parenting especially Cathy. And continung and finishing up Corinne and Cathy. Nothing happens in the other kid books expect the parents' die and the daughter gets raped or almost raped by the creepy uncle or grandfather. Nothing is revealed. Nothing is learn. Its just there. We could have skipped Christie's book and gotten Laura Sue's book. That would have at least explained if Laura Sue was telling the truth about her rape or not. Annie's story didn't really do much either although we did get Fanny coming to the rescue Annie which was great. The no longer siblings we can fall in love never makes any sense. Dawn and Jimmy were raised as siblings, Annie and Luke were raised as siblings but its okay they learn their not and can fall in love and marry. That's not how it worked. Heaven and Fanny weren't blood siblings but very much thought of each other as sisters from beginning to end. Even after Fanny learned the truth she still considered Heaven her sister. Troy and Heaven almost skipped that part because they weren't raised as family. The Ghostwriter never really got what was great about the first two series.

I agree - the ghostwriter or the publishing company seemed to think that the hook for the Dollanganger and Heaven series was the incest, not the actual story. They also failed to understand that if you have the same twist in every series, it's no longer a shocking surprise.

With Cathy and Chris, we saw how conflicted Cathy was about it. She loved Christopher and part of her didn't want to reject him or cause him any more pain. And they were correct in believing that no one else would ever understand what they went through. Other people could try to sympathize but they would never truly know how awful it was to be betrayed by their own mother lying to them, abandoning them, and trying to kill them so that she could pursue her own happiness. Although Cathy rashly pursued both Paul and Julian to try to force Chris to find someone else, her need for revenge was so great that I think if Chris hadn't been after her, she probably still would have given in to Julian's advances in the hopes of furthering her dance career so that she would become famous enough for her mother to regret all that she had done and she probably would have ended up going after Bart just to hurt Corinne. I think without Chris pursuing her, she still might have gone after Paul as well because she felt that she owed him. So despite the fact that she claimed she turned to Paul and Julian to push Chris away, I think that she still had her own selfish reasons for deciding to be with them.

Cathy was deeply insecure and flawed, but I liked that we got to see her go back and forth between loving Chris and trying to escape their relationship. Flowers in the Attic was originally supposed to be titled The Obsessed and while I think the flower themed book titles definitely helped add to the mystique of the books, the original title was definitely more accurate. Cathy and Chris were obsessed with each other. They may have had periods of time when they were preoccupied with other things and not as involved in each other's lives but they were definitely a lifelong obsession for each other.

I'm not condoning their incestuous relationship but I understand why they felt they could never truly be loved and understood by anyone else. I mean, in the first place, why would you ever want to admit all the crazy shit that happened to you? I'm pretty sure that just telling someone the full truth about their years in the attic would be a deal breaker for most people. On top of that, Cathy and Chris were both very proud. They would not want to confess the truth and then have someone look at them with pity (that's assuming the other person didn't run away so fast that they left a person shaped hole in the door).

The sad thing is that Cathy did find someone who fully accepted her, warts and all, and knew everything. Paul was a little Gary Stu in how accepting he was of it all, but I guess you can overlook a lot when you're a 40 year old not quite widower who has a hot 15 year old girl who wants to sleep with you. I know, I know, it's not cool to judge Paul since he was one of the only kind men in Cathy's life but still.

My point is that Cathy and Chris were really damaged and that's what made their need for each other compelling. It was also clear that Cathy felt very guilty about loving Chris as more than a brother. Even after she gave in and they were presenting themselves as husband and wife, she still felt some shame about it in If There Be Thorns. It wasn't until Seeds of Yesterday that she seemed fully at ease being with Chris (and of course Bart had to stomp on that every chance he got). VC Andrews spent hundreds of pages creating this relationship and showing us how the relationship changed from regular siblings to clinging to the only human being they could ever fully trust (Cathy may have loved Paul, Julian, and Bart in her own way but she never fully trusted any of them).

In the later ghost written books, for example, we would start with Dawn telling us in the first chapter how she liked her brother. We were given no real reason to understand why except that he was nice and he understood her. Uhhh, so what? The same went for Annie and Luke. I was like GURL, PLEASE. You know he is your brother-cousin so STOP. And again, we were dropped right in the middle of this teenage girl saying she had feeeeeelings for someone who she thought to be her bio brother which is NOT what happened with Cathy and Chris.

With Cathy and Chris, we saw how their relationship slowly changed over time and how Cathy fought against it, so when she finally accepted it at the end of Petals on the Wind, my reaction was ugh...but I can understand how this happened. With Annie/Luke and the other brother-lovers, my reaction was UGH NO. Annie, I'm sorry that you grew up a rich sheltered girl in a small town and you couldn't relate to anyone else except your brother-cousin BUT NO. Dawn, I'm sorry you grew up poor and your family was doing a reenactment of Running on Empty BUT NO.

VC Andrews DID know how to write a good non-incesty brother relationship which we saw with Heaven and Tom. They understood each other and supported each other and they had no inappropriate sexual feelings for each other. A+ for VC Andrews! The Neiderman books did not understand why the Cathy/Chris and Heaven/Troy relationships were tragic. He just went with "incest is best" and gave us book after book of brother-lovers and bio brother rapes without trying to understand why we managed to sympathize with Cathy and Heaven.

One non-incest note: I loved that even after Heaven found out that she was not Luke's daughter, she NEVER referred to any of the Casteels as anything but family. For better or for worse, they were her family, warts and all. Even Fanny, who was the biggest pain in the ass, she always considered to be her sister. She never described Fanny as her adopted sister or used other terms to put distance between their relationship, even in her inner monologue. Heaven considered Fanny to be her sister until the very end, no matter how much she betrayed her or hurt her.

[Daisy]

I got to watch the first two movies - 
I have to say they were really good. i think better than the first two movies of Heaven and Cathy's stories. The girls who played the twins are really good. I had issues with Grandmere/Grandpere because i expected them to be... more...well. either older. or imposing or something lol. I also didn't really like Pierre (he was good enough a for effort but a little shakey on the landing)

I also have to say there were a lot of things i forgot in Pearl in the Mist so I was like gasp (or really OH YAH right!!!) LOL 

[CountryGirl]

I may have said this before but I think Chris was, ironically enough, the healthiest relationship Cathy had. 

Julian was abusive, physically and emotionally, including raping her.

Bart raped her and even though Cathy wanted to believe otherwise, he was never going to leave Corrine and her millions for Cathy. Plus, I think he truly loved Corrine and it was Cathy that was the poor substitute, not the other way around.

Which leaves us with Paul and "kindly doctor" isn't what I'd used to describe him. What 40-something man lets a 15-year-old girl, his adopted daughter no less, sit on his lap and touches her breasts? Who "gives in" to her advances when she's only sixteen years old? A predator, that's who. A predator who raped his first wife, which probably drove her to attempt suicide and drown their son in the process.

12-year-old me, reading this book for the first time, thought Paul was wrong, full stop, and forty-something me doesn't feel one bit differently. If anything, I'm even more appalled and I can never get on board with the two of them. In fact, I'd wager a guess that Cathy was the main reason he took them in, what with his ogling her from head to toe upon their first meeting, and the next several months of doting on her, the shopping trips, their special late night chats, the getting Chris and Carrie off to boarding schools very quickly were all part of his plan (and grooming) to isolate Cathy and get her alone. I'm not suggesting he was pure evil but his motives were hardly what I'd call altruistic. He had a very vulnerable, impressionable and willing-to-please-she-was-SO-grateful teenager ripe for the taking and he took full advantage of that. 

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

I got to watch the first two movies - 
I have to say they were really good. i think better than the first two movies of Heaven and Cathy's stories. The girls who played the twins are really good. I had issues with Grandmere/Grandpere because i expected them to be... more...well. either older. or imposing or something lol. I also didn't really like Pierre (he was good enough a for effort but a little shakey on the landing)

I also have to say there were a lot of things i forgot in Pearl in the Mist so I was like gasp (or really OH YAH right!!!) LOL 

I imagined Grandpere as a giant wicked bear of a man who was terrifying even in his old age. The actor just seemed like a typical old drunk. Then again, I also never imagined evil Tony Tatterton to be tiny little Jason Priestly aka Brandon from 90210.

I would pay for some one on this forum to do the casting in these movies, since the people on this forum have a much better understanding of these characters then the people who makes the Lifetime movies.

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

I agree - the ghostwriter or the publishing company seemed to think that the hook for the Dollanganger and Heaven series was the incest, not the actual story. They also failed to understand that if you have the same twist in every series, it's no longer a shocking surprise.

With Cathy and Chris, we saw how conflicted Cathy was about it. She loved Christopher and part of her didn't want to reject him or cause him any more pain. And they were correct in believing that no one else would ever understand what they went through. Other people could try to sympathize but they would never truly know how awful it was to be betrayed by their own mother lying to them, abandoning them, and trying to kill them so that she could pursue her own happiness. Although Cathy rashly pursued both Paul and Julian to try to force Chris to find someone else, her need for revenge was so great that I think if Chris hadn't been after her, she probably still would have given in to Julian's advances in the hopes of furthering her dance career so that she would become famous enough for her mother to regret all that she had done and she probably would have ended up going after Bart just to hurt Corinne. I think without Chris pursuing her, she still might have gone after Paul as well because she felt that she owed him. So despite the fact that she claimed she turned to Paul and Julian to push Chris away, I think that she still had her own selfish reasons for deciding to be with them.

Cathy was deeply insecure and flawed, but I liked that we got to see her go back and forth between loving Chris and trying to escape their relationship. Flowers in the Attic was originally supposed to be titled The Obsessed and while I think the flower themed book titles definitely helped add to the mystique of the books, the original title was definitely more accurate. Cathy and Chris were obsessed with each other. They may have had periods of time when they were preoccupied with other things and not as involved in each other's lives but they were definitely a lifelong obsession for each other.

I'm not condoning their incestuous relationship but I understand why they felt they could never truly be loved and understood by anyone else. I mean, in the first place, why would you ever want to admit all the crazy shit that happened to you? I'm pretty sure that just telling someone the full truth about their years in the attic would be a deal breaker for most people. On top of that, Cathy and Chris were both very proud. They would not want to confess the truth and then have someone look at them with pity (that's assuming the other person didn't run away so fast that they left a person shaped hole in the door).

The sad thing is that Cathy did find someone who fully accepted her, warts and all, and knew everything. Paul was a little Gary Stu in how accepting he was of it all, but I guess you can overlook a lot when you're a 40 year old not quite widower who has a hot 15 year old girl who wants to sleep with you. I know, I know, it's not cool to judge Paul since he was one of the only kind men in Cathy's life but still.

My point is that Cathy and Chris were really damaged and that's what made their need for each other compelling. It was also clear that Cathy felt very guilty about loving Chris as more than a brother. Even after she gave in and they were presenting themselves as husband and wife, she still felt some shame about it in If There Be Thorns. It wasn't until Seeds of Yesterday that she seemed fully at ease being with Chris (and of course Bart had to stomp on that every chance he got). VC Andrews spent hundreds of pages creating this relationship and showing us how the relationship changed from regular siblings to clinging to the only human being they could ever fully trust (Cathy may have loved Paul, Julian, and Bart in her own way but she never fully trusted any of them).

In the later ghost written books, for example, we would start with Dawn telling us in the first chapter how she liked her brother. We were given no real reason to understand why except that he was nice and he understood her. Uhhh, so what? The same went for Annie and Luke. I was like GURL, PLEASE. You know he is your brother-cousin so STOP. And again, we were dropped right in the middle of this teenage girl saying she had feeeeeelings for someone who she thought to be her bio brother which is NOT what happened with Cathy and Chris.

With Cathy and Chris, we saw how their relationship slowly changed over time and how Cathy fought against it, so when she finally accepted it at the end of Petals on the Wind, my reaction was ugh...but I can understand how this happened. With Annie/Luke and the other brother-lovers, my reaction was UGH NO. Annie, I'm sorry that you grew up a rich sheltered girl in a small town and you couldn't relate to anyone else except your brother-cousin BUT NO. Dawn, I'm sorry you grew up poor and your family was doing a reenactment of Running on Empty BUT NO.

VC Andrews DID know how to write a good non-incesty brother relationship which we saw with Heaven and Tom. They understood each other and supported each other and they had no inappropriate sexual feelings for each other. A+ for VC Andrews! The Neiderman books did not understand why the Cathy/Chris and Heaven/Troy relationships were tragic. He just went with "incest is best" and gave us book after book of brother-lovers and bio brother rapes without trying to understand why we managed to sympathize with Cathy and Heaven.

One non-incest note: I loved that even after Heaven found out that she was not Luke's daughter, she NEVER referred to any of the Casteels as anything but family. For better or for worse, they were her family, warts and all. Even Fanny, who was the biggest pain in the ass, she always considered to be her sister. She never described Fanny as her adopted sister or used other terms to put distance between their relationship, even in her inner monologue. Heaven considered Fanny to be her sister until the very end, no matter how much she betrayed her or hurt her.

Bravo to all of this.

I wish someone could show your post to the ghost writer...not that he would care.

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

I may have said this before but I think Chris was, ironically enough, the healthiest relationship Cathy had. 

Julian was abusive, physically and emotionally, including raping her.

Bart raped her and even though Cathy wanted to believe otherwise, he was never going to leave Corrine and her millions for Cathy. Plus, I think he truly loved Corrine and it was Cathy that was the poor substitute, not the other way around.

Which leaves us with Paul and "kindly doctor" isn't what I'd used to describe him. What 40-something man lets a 15-year-old girl, his adopted daughter no less, sit on his lap and touches her breasts? Who "gives in" to her advances when she's only sixteen years old? A predator, that's who. A predator who raped his first wife, which probably drove her to attempt suicide and drown their son in the process.

12-year-old me, reading this book for the first time, thought Paul was wrong, full stop, and forty-something me doesn't feel one bit differently. If anything, I'm even more appalled and I can never get on board with the two of them. In fact, I'd wager a guess that Cathy was the main reason he took them in, what with his ogling her from head to toe upon their first meeting, and the next several months of doting on her, the shopping trips, their special late night chats, the getting Chris and Carrie off to boarding schools very quickly were all part of his plan (and grooming) to isolate Cathy and get her alone. I'm not suggesting he was pure evil but his motives were hardly what I'd call altruistic. He had a very vulnerable, impressionable and willing-to-please-she-was-SO-grateful teenager ripe for the taking and he took full advantage of that. 

I agree with this 100%. Chris did actually love Cathy*, the rest of the men in Cathy's life were awful predators, and abusive nut jobs, or cheating bastards at best! Paul brings these poor abused neglected half starving children into his home and then sexually assaults her! Paul grinds my gears probably the most, because he had a duty of care and acted as a caregiver to these children so I hold him to a higher standard. Julian was the typical abusive jealous husband, Bart just wanted sex with a hot younger woman on the side- so Bart grinds my gears the least. Cathy was an adult, he didnt coerce her, she knew he was married to Corrinne and she used him just as much as he used her.

 

Edited to add- I 100% forgot that Paul shipped Chris and Carrie off to boarding school to get Cathy alone! Yes, I believe you, that he likely took in the children because he thought Cathy was hot and wanted access to her. Of course Cathy was grateful, she had spent years being STARVED in the attic- physically, emotionally, socially etc. Paul was a relatively young handsome Dr, tons of non abused 15/16yrs old girls think older men are attractive, but those older men don't TOUCH them, even though they may be flattered, they keep up FIRM boundaries with a child. Especially a child to whom they are acting as a guardian/caregiver. I am getting upset at Paul again now. The best thing Paul did was put Chris though medical school, and encourage them to be together after he was gone. I dont blame Cathy for wanting to care for him in his last years, given all he had done for Chris and giving her sons an inheritance etc, but nope, I am not team Paul. 

Chris was committed to living a productive life, helping people, being a loving father figure to Jory and Bart Jr. Yes incest is wrong because of the power dynamics of families being hierarchical, but Chris and Cathy weren't going to have any biological children and in the grand scheme of things their relationship was the "least wrong" thing about the entire series. I think that Carrie's suicide really pushed both Chris and Cathy over the edge and were like "fuck it life is too short for this shit".

VC Andrews wrote a good story because of the psychological trauma the Dollanganger children endured yet managed to come out of the other side somewhat decent people, able to function in society, if the biggest damage from life in the attic was their relationship, well they are far more resilient than a lot of people. 

 

*ugh I hate the rape scene in the attic, it goes against who Chris was as a character. 

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

I imagined Grandpere as a giant wicked bear of a man who was terrifying even in his old age. The actor just seemed like a typical old drunk.

I thought Grandpere could be scary to a tiny woman Ruby (and Raechelle the actress') size. Yes he was a drunk but he had at least 150lbs on her and was much taller than her. She was able to get a number on him because she was smarter, and his facilities were impaired because of the drinking, but had he been a little bit more sober she may have lost that fight. The dude CHAINED UP his grand daughter to be raped for $500!! That is scary to me.

[qtpye]

9 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I agree with this 100%. Chris did actually love Cathy*, the rest of the men in Cathy's life were awful predators, and abusive nut jobs, or cheating bastards at best! Paul brings these poor abused neglected half starving children into his home and then sexually assaults her! Paul grinds my gears probably the most, because he had a duty of care and acted as a caregiver to these children so I hold him to a higher standard. Julian was the typical abusive jealous husband, Bart just wanted sex with a hot younger woman on the side- so Bart grinds my gears the least. Cathy was an adult, he didnt coerce her, she knew he was married to Corrinne and she used him just as much as he used her.

Chris was committed to living a productive life, helping people, being a loving father figure to Jory and Bart Jr. Yes incest is wrong because of the power dynamics of families being hierarchical, but Chris and Cathy weren't going to have any biological children and in the grand scheme of things their relationship was the "least wrong" thing about the entire series. I think that Carrie's suicide really pushed both Chris and Cathy over the edge and were like "fuck it life is too short for this shit".

VC Andrews wrote a good story because of the psychological trauma the Dollanganger children endured yet managed to come out of the other side somewhat decent people, able to function in society, if the biggest damage from life in the attic was their relationship, well they are far more resilient than a lot of people. 

 

*ugh I hate the rape scene in the attic, it goes against who Chris was as a character. 

I thought Grandpere could be scary to a tiny woman Ruby (and Raechelle the actress') size. Yes he was a drunk but he had at least 150lbs on her and was much taller than her. She was able to get a number on him because she was smarter, and his facilities were impaired because of the drinking, but had he been a little bit more sober she may have lost that fight. The dude CHAINED UP his grand daughter to be raped for $500!! That is scary to me.

I see your point and yes that man they cast would still be imposing to tiny little Ruby (good on her for getting the jump on that asshole).

Here he is on the cover. He is supposed to be a giant in the books.

Does anyone else think the girl on the cover looks a lot like the sunburnt girl on Heaven's original cover? Maybe they used the same model?

Also, here you can see the red hair was supposed to be much darker...auburn I think?

 

[Scarlett45]

9 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I see your point and yes that man they cast would still be imposing to tiny little Ruby (good on her for getting the jump on that asshole).

Here he is on the cover. He is supposed to be a giant in the books.

Does anyone else think the girl on the cover looks a lot like the sunburnt girl on Heaven's original cover? Maybe they used the same model?

Also, here you can see the red hair was supposed to be much darker...auburn I think?

 

Thanks for the cover. I see what you mean.

[Daisy]

30 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I see your point and yes that man they cast would still be imposing to tiny little Ruby (good on her for getting the jump on that asshole).

Here he is on the cover. He is supposed to be a giant in the books.

Does anyone else think the girl on the cover looks a lot like the sunburnt girl on Heaven's original cover? Maybe they used the same model?

Also, here you can see the red hair was supposed to be much darker...auburn I think?

 

Yeah I always thought Ruby was supposed to be more "handsome auburn, less carrots." to quote Anne Shirley. 

I will also say, especially because we had Fanny's hill accent in Heaven.... i'm sorta glad we didn't go all Cajun/Creole drawls here. (though I would have been more appreciative at more effort when saying clear french words. it was very... ooof)

yeah Ruby vs. Grandpere Jack - Ruby only won because Jack was drunk. (they did take liberties in the scene because if i remember rightly (which i mean. my Ruby history is shaky) - Grandpere never actually locked her up. he had been too drunk to do so so when Ruby realized what was happening she was able to take off the chain and run away. but how they did it in the movie was actually mucho better so i liked that change).  But Jack's favourite number is 1000. LOL Sold Giselle for 1000, tried to sell Ruby for 1000. + a rape brokerage fee. (the casting of Buster hmmm. it works, kinda. I mean not like i ever pictured him in my head or anything but he was very rich Cajun). 

It drove me insane how long it took people to clue in that Giselle could have been the one screwing Buck (who was hot) instead of Ruby. the moment Ruby was like "I was at the mansion at 7:30"  that should have been a clue that you know. something was off. And even though Miss Stevens/Louis did a little har har with the time. the butler  would have known when she showed up/when she left. Ironwood was hot to get Ruby out, but I mean, common sense y'all). 

I also forgot how dumb Ruby was (well and Beau equal dumbness) were in regards to not having protection. Esp. with Ruby (in Ruby) not wanting to be like typical Bayou girls.

 

[qtpye]

6 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Yeah I always thought Ruby was supposed to be more "handsome auburn, less carrots." to quote Anne Shirley. 

I will also say, especially because we had Fanny's hill accent in Heaven.... i'm sorta glad we didn't go all Cajun/Creole drawls here. (though I would have been more appreciative at more effort when saying clear french words. it was very... ooof)

yeah Ruby vs. Grandpere Jack - Ruby only won because Jack was drunk. (they did take liberties in the scene because if i remember rightly (which i mean. my Ruby history is shaky) - Grandpere never actually locked her up. he had been too drunk to do so so when Ruby realized what was happening she was able to take off the chain and run away. but how they did it in the movie was actually mucho better so i liked that change).  But Jack's favourite number is 1000. LOL Sold Giselle for 1000, tried to sell Ruby for 1000. + a rape brokerage fee. (the casting of Buster hmmm. it works, kinda. I mean not like i ever pictured him in my head or anything but he was very rich Cajun). 

It drove me insane how long it took people to clue in that Giselle could have been the one screwing Buck (who was hot) instead of Ruby. the moment Ruby was like "I was at the mansion at 7:30"  that should have been a clue that you know. something was off. And even though Miss Stevens/Louis did a little har har with the time. the butler  would have known when she showed up/when she left. Ironwood was hot to get Ruby out, but I mean, common sense y'all). 

I also forgot how dumb Ruby was (well and Beau equal dumbness) were in regards to not having protection. Esp. with Ruby (in Ruby) not wanting to be like typical Bayou girls.

 

I think I remember that Buster was supposed to have a layer of fat around his midsection, giving him a literal spare tire. I might not be remembering correctly because my Ruby memory is also pretty foggy.

[Scarlett45]

13 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Yeah I always thought Ruby was supposed to be more "handsome auburn, less carrots." to quote Anne Shirley. 

I thought their (Ruby and Giselle's) hair color was auburn as compared to a pure "red" (or even a carrot-y red). Interesting how our eyes can perceive colors.

14 minutes ago, Daisy said:

I also forgot how dumb Ruby was (well and Beau equal dumbness) were in regards to not having protection. Esp. with Ruby (in Ruby) not wanting to be like typical Bayou girls.

Condoms were certainly a thing in 1962, and Giselle would've been able to tell Ruby where to get a diaphragm, yes even in 1962 Louisiana. 

 

[CountryGirl]

I was able to watch Pearl in the Mist last night and it was as trashy fun as Ruby with some WTF moments.

So long, Pierre. We barely knew ya!

And don't tell me Daphne wasn't cheating with Bruce behind his back and plotting his demise. It's been 20 years since I read the Landry series so I honestly cannot recall. 

Daphne getting married six months after Pierre kicked the bucket was surprisingly restrained. I was expecting her to remarry in 6 weeks, tops.

I actually enjoyed Lauralee Bell bringing her best soap opera bitchiness to this role.

Speaking of frostiness, Marilu Henner certainly played the snooty, Cajun-despising Mrs. Ironwood to perfection. 

We got some new characters this go-round including the interesting Abby. Although I am side-eyeing Ruby, a Bayou gal, not recognizing Abby as biracial and ugh, commenting on Abby's tan. I'm thinking even Louis could have seen that.

I was glad to see Abby leave that shitty, racist school with her head held high. 

Then we have Ms. Stevens and Ruby really is thick, isn't she? 

But anyone who is nice to Ruby, of course, cannot possibly be permitted to stay.

Also axed, was Buck, and I don't blame Giselle one bit for breaking off a piece of that Kit Kat bar.

I recall next to nothing about Louis and was it that creepy in the books? I'm especially referring to him attempting to re-enact the scene of his mother molesting him. 

Although Louis did save the day by keeping Ruby getting expelled from the shitty, racist school. On second thought, no thanks, Louis

Ruby and Beau finally got it on and I am side-eyeing that they would have sex in the barn in the middle of the day where anyone, Buck et al, could have walked in. 

And then Beau is around long enough to get Ruby pregnant. 

When one would have thought it would have been Giselle to get knocked up, but then we wouldn't have had a book/show title.

And when she escapes back to the bayou, look, there's half-brother Paul just waiting to swoop in and play husband and father.

You're still related to her, Paul!

She gives birth during a hurricane because of course she does and somehow all is fine, including the letter Giselle inexplicably wrote her. 

And Ruby is left considering Paul's marriage proposal because Beau has peaced out for Paris. Girllll...

 

 

[Scarlett45]

33 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

Although I am side-eyeing Ruby, a Bayou gal, not recognizing Abby as biracial and ugh, commenting on Abby's tan. I'm thinking even Louis could have seen that.

OMG YES! I didnt want to be the one to say it, but anyone could've seen Abby was black, and certainly Ruby, who grew up in the damn BAYOU, and being poor had more day to day contact with black people than Giselle (who would've only known the house staff) would've recognized that straight away. 

33 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

Also axed, was Buck, and I don't blame Giselle one bit for breaking off a piece of that Kit Kat bar.

Buck was fine as hell.

 

33 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

And when she escapes back to the bayou, looks, there's half-brother Paul just waiting to swoop in and play husband and father.

You're still related to her, Paul!

She gives a birth during a hurricane because of course she does and somehow all is fine, including the letter Giselle inexplicably wrote her. 

And Ruby is left considering Paul's marriage proposal because Beau has peaced out for Paris. Girllll...

 

Yes- now if Paul and Ruby had no romantic/sexual attraction and were just friends (as well as secret siblings), and Paul wanted to marry her to give Pearl a name/protection (it is still 1962 after all) and he didnt want bio children or was gay and wanted a beard, THIS I could get behind- them helping each other out and co-parenting Pearl. Ruby is a young girl with no skills (besides painting) and Paul is wealthy, Pearl has to eat and be raised.

But you both are sexually attracted to each other. That would be a disaster! Yes Ruby is "over Paul" because she learned they were siblings, and she loves Beau, but before she knew she was hot for him. You think living together under the same roof is a good idea? They are both young, healthy sexual people, would they be willing to stay away from each other? I dont think so!

[Daisy]

24 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I was able to watch Pearl in the Mist last night and it was as trashy fun as Ruby with some WTF moments.

So long, Pierre. We barely knew ya!

And don't tell me Daphne wasn't cheating with Bruce behind his back and plotting his demise. It's been 20 years since I read the Landry series so I honestly cannot recall. 

Daphne getting married six months after Pierre kicked the bucket was surprisingly restrained. I was expecting her to remarry in 6 weeks, tops.

I actually enjoyed Lauralee Bell bringing her best soap opera bitchiness to this role.

Speaking of frostiness, Marilu Henner certainly played the snooty, Cajun-despising Mrs. Ironwood to perfection. 

We got some new characters this go-round including the interesting Abby. Although I am side-eyeing Ruby, a Bayou gal, not recognizing Abby as biracial and ugh, commenting on Abby's tan. I'm thinking even Louis could have seen that.

I was glad to see Abby leave that shitty, racist school with her head held high. 

Then we have Ms. Stevens and Ruby really is thick, isn't she? 

But anyone who is nice to Ruby, of course, cannot possibly be permitted to stay.

Also axed, was Buck, and I don't blame Giselle one bit for breaking off a piece of that Kit Kat bar.

I recall next to nothing about Louis and was it that creepy in the books? I'm especially referring to him attempting to re-enact the scene of his mother molesting him. 

Although Louis did save the day by keeping Ruby getting expelled from the shitty, racist school.

Ruby and Beau finally got it on and I am side-eyeing that they would have sex in the barn in the middle of the day where anyone, Buck et al, could have walked in. 

And then Beau is around long enough to get Ruby pregnant. 

When one would have thought it would have been Giselle to get knocked up, but then we wouldn't have had a book/show title.

And when she escapes back to the bayou, looks, there's half-brother Paul just waiting to swoop in and play husband and father.

You're still related to her, Paul!

She gives a birth during a hurricane because of course she does and somehow all is fine, including the letter Giselle inexplicably wrote her. 

And Ruby is left considering Paul's marriage proposal because Beau has peaced out for Paris. Girllll...

 

 

No - Pierre just up and died from a heart attack. (but i always believed Daphne and Bruce were just having somethin' somethin' on the side). But Pierre was also dumb (or stupidly naive) to just have everything to Daphne and letting her be in control of all the money and not having Jean and his daughters irrevocably taken care off without Daphne messing it up.

Also I laughed hard that Ruby is legit on the abortion table and then she's like gasp! This isn't right! and the Doctor is like "Well i promised your stepmother....." like.at one point i was like is he gonna tackle her her? 

Abby was in the books very cream with a little chocolate syrup hint. like when she admits that she's mulatto it's a big WOW who woulda thunk. where here it was like I'm mixed, and it was like "well duh" Ruby looked dumb (and in a way I think it was basically more set up that Giselle was smarter than her. 

That's the thing too. I don't remember if Louis was that creepy. like "my hands were HERE" (on Ruby's chest) and her hand was THERE! (on Louis's crotch) and etc etc. (I will say this movie is really making me wanna re-read the Landry Series, because there are so many gaps in my memory here). like with Ms. Stevens. I remembered that she was a lesbian but I don't know why for the life of me she was involved w/someone on campus or something. 

LOL right? "We've waited long enough!" 
Me: BUT YOU ARE IN THE BARN! IN THE MORNING! BUCK COULD COME IN!!

Re: Buck again I can't remember if he was actually lusting after Ruby or Giselle just rubbing it in Ruby's face.

And Yeah. Paul's "I'll never love anyone else." I am like DUDE. IT'S YOUR SISTER. YOU ALL WILL KNOW. like i feel a part of me would get it if Ruby and he had had sex and she was the best lay he ever had but even then. like come on and Ruby's like "OH YAH I'll THINK ABOUT IT."

WHAT?!

 

 

[Scarlett45]

57 minutes ago, Daisy said:

But Pierre was also dumb (or stupidly naive) to just have everything to Daphne and letting her be in control of all the money and not having Jean and his daughters irrevocably taken care off without Daphne messing it up.

I didn’t think Pierre left Daphne in charge- the girls money is in a trust until they are 21 right? So Daphne cannot spend it or squander it. Pierre also added Ruby to the will relatively quickly so I’m glad about that. 
 

Pierre really messed up leaving Daphne in charge of Jean’s residential care- shit he could’ve left anyone else as guardian with instructions that the money had to be spent on Jean. But the thing is, unlike Ruby and Giselle who could fight for their money, who would know if Jean was getting the care Pierre wanted for him?

[Daisy]

7 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I didn’t think Pierre left Daphne in charge- the girls money is in a trust until they are 21 right? So Daphne cannot spend it or squander it. Pierre also added Ruby to the will relatively quickly so I’m glad about that. 
 

Pierre really messed up leaving Daphne in charge of Jean’s residential care- shit he could’ve left anyone else as guardian with instructions that the money had to be spent on Jean. But the thing is, unlike Ruby and Giselle who could fight for their money, who would know if Jean was getting the care Pierre wanted for him?

exactly!

To be fair it was late night when i was watching Pearl  - i thought Daphne moved the money into a trust so they couldn't have a cent now (and basically dependent on Daphne until 21 which is why Daphne was allowed to kinda control Ruby until Ruby was like ef this and went to the Bayou)

Oh quesiton
When is All that Glitters is it next weekend? was there a trailier?

[CountryGirl]

All That Glitters (Saturday, March 27 at 8 p.m. Eastern)  is this coming weekend along with Hidden Jewel (Sunday, March 28th at 8 p.m. Eastern.)

 

[Scarlett45]

17 hours ago, Daisy said:

exactly!

To be fair it was late night when i was watching Pearl  - i thought Daphne moved the money into a trust so they couldn't have a cent now (and basically dependent on Daphne until 21 which is why Daphne was allowed to kinda control Ruby until Ruby was like ef this and went to the Bayou)

Oh quesiton
When is All that Glitters is it next weekend? was there a trailier?

I thought it was Pierre who set up the money in a trust for the girls to get at 21 if he died before then- thats a pretty common thing for parents to do, so I assumed Pierre did that, also in 1962 the age of majority for contracts and things was 21 in most parts of the USA (not 18). Also Daphne wouldn’t have done that, she would've just taken it and spent it.

 

I wasnt surprised that Daphne was controlling Ruby, the girls were still minors (arent they still 17 when Pierre dies?) even in 2021 they would need a legal guardian, Daphne was Giselle's legal mother, and Ruby's stepmother so it made sense she was the guardian. From what I gathered, Daphne wasn't the best mother to Giselle, but she did have some maternal affection for her, having lived with her since infancy, compared to her pure distain for Ruby. Is that how it was in the books?

Yes All That Glitters is next weekend, there was a trailer at the very end.

[Daisy]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I thought it was Pierre who set up the money in a trust for the girls to get at 21 if he died before then- thats a pretty common thing for parents to do, so I assumed Pierre did that, also in 1962 the age of majority for contracts and things was 21 in most parts of the USA (not 18). Also Daphne would've have done that, she would've just taken it and spent it.

 

I wasnt surprised that Daphne was controlling Ruby, the girls were still minors (arent they still 17 when Pierre dies?) even in 2021 they would need a legal guardian, Daphne was Giselle's legal mother, and Ruby's stepmother so it made sense she was the guardian. From what I gathered, Daphne wasn't the best mother to Giselle, but she did have some maternal affection for her, having lived with her since infancy, compared to her pure distain for Ruby. Is that how it was in the books?

Yes All That Glitters is next weekend, there was a trailer at the very end.

true. maybe i am just being hard on Pierre. 

Thanks. I am gonna try to see if i can find it on youtube, the trailer. 

[CountryGirl]

I thought that Pierre set up the trust for the twins as well.

[TattleTeeny]

I laughed really loud when the letter blew out of the window!

[JAYJAY1979]

I recall Abby being described as being tan, and the twist of her being mixed came out of left field in the book.

And I think in the book Miss Steven's has gossip about her..but it wasn't confirmed.  

I always knew Lauralee Bell was perfection as Daphne.  

And Marilu Henner playing against type..impressive.

Next week will be Kristian Alfonso (Hope Brady) as Gladys:)

[Scarlett45]

11 minutes ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

I recall Abby being described as being tan, and the twist of her being mixed came out of left field in the book.

 

There are often people of color, and specifically black people who appear ethnically ambiguous but their skin deepens as such in the sun that it becomes far less ambitious what their ethnic heritage happens to be. A black girl passing for white in 1962 would've likely stayed out of the sun as much as possible. Also I think the  word "tan" means so many different things to people depending on what your own background is (along with "fair", "dark" and "light/dark skinned"), but I can believe it was supposed to be a shock that she was admitted to the school.

 

I think a young Jennifer Beals was probably what the ghost writer was going for with Abby, or a great choice would've been Troian Bellsario.

[qtpye]

Changing gears from the Ruby train, I just watched Seeds of Yesterday. It is annoying that Cathy excuses all of Bart’s horrible behavior. I was happy when Cindy slapped him.

Melody was nothing like I imagined. What happened to her spectacular strawberry blonde curls?

Edited March 24, 2021 by qtpye

[Scarlett45]

7 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Changing gears from the Ruby train, I just watched Seeds of Yesterday. It is annoying that Cathy excuses all of Bart’s horrible behavior. I was happy when Cindy slapped him.

Melody was nothing like I imagined. What happened to her spectacular strawberry blonde curls?

I am guessing that Cathy's excuses for Bart's behavior were fueled entirely by "Mother's Guilt". Jory seemed to be a sweet, kind sort of child- I got the impression that he resembled Chris in temperament. After Carrie's suicide, I think Cathy may have thought Bart may have had similar mental health challenges and coddled him because of that. 

Can someone refresh my memory (since we are on a Dollanganger train)- what did Chris/Cathy tell Jory's Grandmother (Julian's mother) about them? I know they lived on the other side of the country, but given that they were living as a married couple and the kids were getting bigger, that would've been a hard ruse to keep up.

[Snow Apple]

10 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Changing gears from the Ruby train, I just watched Seeds of Yesterday. It is annoying that Cathy excuses all of Bart’s horrible behavior. I was happy when Cindy slapped him.

It was weird the movie "went there" with Bart and Cindy. The book had small moments when you go "hmmm" but by the end, Bart proudly introduced Cindy as his sister to his tv ministry audience. In the movie, she's his wife.

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, Snow Apple said:

It was weird the movie "went there" with Bart and Cindy. The book had small moments when you go "hmmm" but by the end, Bart proudly introduced Cindy as his sister to his tv ministry audience. In the movie, she's his wife.

Its been years since I have seen Seeds of Yesterday (I think I saw it just during its original airing), but gross. If I were Cindy I wouldnt be able to forgive that his man tried to DROWN ME as a toddler because I was adopted, much less want to MARRY HIM. EEWWW. How did that happen anyway? Weren't they legal siblings?* Cathy/Chris adopted Cindy after her biological mother died so young.

 

*Chris/Cathy lived together as spouses but they weren't actually married.

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

It was weird the movie "went there" with Bart and Cindy. The book had small moments when you go "hmmm" but by the end, Bart proudly introduced Cindy as his sister to his tv ministry audience. In the movie, she's his wife.

I know...I rolled my eyes at the  "all siblings fall in love with each other trope".

Not going to lie...movie Bart was fine as hell but he was a horribly disturbed person. Any woman who wanted a relationship with him always turned out to be slut because he thought sexual longing was wicked and of course, always the woman's fault.

In the book Bart and Cindy started a sibling ministry. 

The movie, in contrast, tried to paint Bart abusing his sister as a way to cope with his "longing"....yuck!

[Scarlett45]

6 minutes ago, qtpye said:

The movie, in contrast, tried to paint Bart abusing his sister as a way to cope with his "longing"....yuck!

So yuck.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

7 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Can someone refresh my memory (since we are on a Dollanganger train)- what did Chris/Cathy tell Jory's Grandmother (Julian's mother) about them? I know they lived on the other side of the country, but given that they were living as a married couple and the kids were getting bigger, that would've been a hard ruse to keep up.

Julian's mother, Madame Marisha, knew Cathy and Chris were siblings because her dance studio was in the same small town where they lived with Paul.

When they moved to California, they told everyone there that they were married. Paul was the only one from their old life who knew that they were siblings who were pretending to be married.

Each summer, Cathy and Chris would travel back to the East Coast to visit people (including Corinne at the asylum), so all of them knew Cathy and Chris as brother and sister.

Madame Marisha was under the impression that Cathy was still married to Paul and that Chris the perpetual bachelor lived with them. Every summer, Cathy would make some excuse about why Paul couldn't come to South Carolina to visit and Chris would accompany Cathy, Jory, and Bart instead.

Although I have complained frequently about the many continuity errors that the ghostwriter made, here's one of the few I have about VC Andrews. In Petals on the Wind, there were so many references about how Clairmont, South Carolina, was a small town and everyone gossiped about everything and everyone (including Paul's sister Amanda who Cathy sold Paul's house to after Paul died). If that is the case, how could Madame Marisha believe that Paul was still alive? Even though she was obsessed with the dance studio and her dance students, surely she would have heard at some point that Paul the hot doctor had died. She mentioned newspaper articles about Paul that she had seen after Paul's son died, and she also knew about Bart being Corinne's second husband. If she heard all that gossip, how did she not know that Paul died almost a decade ago?

Anyway, the only reason that Cathy and Chris got outed to Jory's grandmother in If There Be Thorns is because Bart got sick and they couldn't travel to the East Coast that summer, so Madame Marisha came out to California to see them. In talking to/interrogating Jory, the grandmother realized the truth, that Chris was the one who Jory and Bart called Dad. When Madame Marisha figured out that Paul was dead and that Cathy and Chris were living as husband and wife, she confronted Cathy and threatened to take Jory away.

ETA: I forgot that there was one other person who knew Cathy and Chris were brother and sister living as husband and wife. Emma Lindstrom was the neighbor/babysitter who Cathy hired to watch Jory when she moved back to Virginia with Carrie in Petals on the Wind. She knew Chris was Cathy's brother. When they moved to California, they brought Emma and she became their maid.

Edited March 24, 2021 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Daisy]

10 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Emma Lindstrom was the neighbor/babysitter who Cathy hired to watch Jory when she moved back to Virginia with Carrie in Petals on the Wind. She knew Chris was Cathy's brother. When they moved to California, they brought Emma and she became their maid.

and she was so kosher with it. just like. "Sure. whatever."

[Scarlett45]

Thanks @ElectricBoogaloo. I knew Julian’s mother knew Cathy/Chris were siblings, but I wasn’t sure how they could keep the kids from “outing” their relationship as a couple; and I recalled that Jory did have a relationship with his grandmother. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

18 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Thanks @ElectricBoogaloo. I knew Julian’s mother knew Cathy/Chris were siblings, but I wasn’t sure how they could keep the kids from “outing” their relationship as a couple; and I recalled that Jory did have a relationship with his grandmother. 

I didn't think of this when I originally read the books when I was younger, but as an adult I wonder how long they could have kept up the ruse while visiting the East Coast. Since it was always Cathy, Chris, Jory, and Bart going back over the summer, wouldn't one of the kids referred to Chris as dad (instead of uncle) in front of Madame Marisha or someone else who knew Cathy and Chris were siblings? You'd think that having one of the kids running up to Chris yelling, "Daddy, pick me up!" or "Daddy, I'm hungry!" would have tipped off someone at some point. But as the kids got older (in If There Be Thorns, Jory was 14), how could Cathy and Chris possibly think they could keep up the lie during their summer trips? The only way I could think it was feasible is if Chris went to visit Corinne while Cathy took the kids visiting. That way, their friends would hear the boys refer to their dad but not know they were actually talking about Chris. Of course, that would also require Cathy telling their friends that she had married someone else (since everyone in Clairmont should know that Paul had died).

Obviously I just put way too much thought into this. Heh, I'm guessing that Cathy was just hoping Madame M would die soon. Speaking of which, Jory's grandmother is a major plot point that just got dropped. She figured out that Cathy and Chris were living as husband and wife so she said she needed to take Jory away with her to protect him from when the inevitable bomb dropped about Cathy and Chris. She said that if Cathy didn't let her take Jory, she would expose Cathy and Chris. Cathy told her to fuck right off and that was the last we ever heard of her. I guess we're supposed to believe that this widowed woman who sold her dance studio in South Carolina so that she could move to California in order to be near her only grandson and was obsessed with seeing him become a professional dancer just...gave up after Cathy said no? What happened to how steely and stubborn she was? I'm glad that she didn't try to actually take Jory away from Cathy, but it just seemed so odd and out of character that for all her previous vim and vigor (and the obsessive way she treated Julian and his dancing) that all it took was Cathy yelling at her once to get her to back down.

[Scarlett45]

15 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I didn't think of this when I originally read the books when I was younger, but as an adult I wonder how long they could have kept up the ruse while visiting the East Coast. Since it was always Cathy, Chris, Jory, and Bart going back over the summer, wouldn't one of the kids referred to Chris as dad (instead of uncle) in front of Madame Marisha or someone else who knew Cathy and Chris were siblings? You'd think that having one of the kids running up to Chris yelling, "Daddy, pick me up!" or "Daddy, I'm hungry!" would have tipped off someone at some point. But as the kids got older (in If There Be Thorns, Jory was 14), how could Cathy and Chris possibly think they could keep up the lie during their summer trips? The only way I could think it was feasible is if Chris went to visit Corinne while Cathy took the kids visiting. That way, their friends would hear the boys refer to their dad but not know they were actually talking about Chris. Of course, that would also require Cathy telling their friends that she had married someone else (since everyone in Clairmont should know that Paul had died).

Obviously I just put way too much thought into this. Heh, I'm guessing that Cathy was just hoping Madame M would die soon. Speaking of which, Jory's grandmother is a major plot point that just got dropped. She figured out that Cathy and Chris were living as husband and wife so she said she needed to take Jory away with her to protect him from when the inevitable bomb dropped about Cathy and Chris. She said that if Cathy didn't let her take Jory, she would expose Cathy and Chris. Cathy told her to fuck right off and that was the last we ever heard of her. I guess we're supposed to believe that this widowed woman who sold her dance studio in South Carolina so that she could move to California in order to be near her only grandson and was obsessed with seeing him become a professional dancer just...gave up after Cathy said no? What happened to how steely and stubborn she was? I'm glad that she didn't try to actually take Jory away from Cathy, but it just seemed so odd and out of character that for all her previous vim and vigor (and the obsessive way she treated Julian and his dancing) that all it took was Cathy yelling at her once to get her to back down.

No no, thats exactly what I was thinking regarding the bolded.

I can believe that Cathy was a scary force when Madame M threatened to take Jory away, but I think some sort of explanation would've been nice. Either a health issue on her part or knowledge of the abuse Chris/Cathy suffered as children, I can believe that in her 70s Madame M may not have had the energy to actually fight Cathy, also Cathy and Chris could've just moved away again and cut her off from Jory. Chris would be easier to find being a Dr, but this was pre-internet etc.

[CountryGirl]

I still remember reading the passages where Jory, who suspects all is not right in his home or with his "parents," is trying to explain about Chris being Paul's younger brother and I could just picture the "dafuq?" thought bubble above Marisha's head. Because yes, she already knew who Chris was. She met him the same day she met Cathy, when she was initially meh about Cathy auditioning and Chris gave that grandiose speech about  Cathy being THE GREATEST DANCER IN THE WORLD and spent something like two full paragraphs telling Marisha how SPECIAL she is, which I'm sure was enough for a savvy lady like Marisha to figure out what was what.

Also, IIRC, they also lied about Bart's father, claiming Paul was his father.

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

I still remember reading the passages where Jory, who suspects all is not right in his home or with his "parents," is trying to explain about Chris being Paul's younger brother and I could just picture the "dafuq?" thought bubble above Marisha's head. Because yes, she already knew who Chris was. She met him the same day she met Cathy, when she was initially meh about Cathy auditioning and Chris gave that grandiose speech about  Cathy being THE GREATEST DANCER IN THE WORLD and spent something like two full paragraphs telling Marisha how SPECIAL she is, which I'm sure was enough for a savvy lady like Marisha to figure out what was what.

Also, IIRC, they also lied about Bart's father, claiming Paul was his father.

Hahahahaha, yes, Christopher Dollanganger was giving Jack Pearson speeches before Jack Pearson was! And it wasn't just some teenage kid saying, "My sister is awesome so the least you could do is let her audition for your podunk ballet studio." He was going on and on about how amaaaaaaaazing Cathy's phrasing was. And this was back in the 60s before the internet so I'm sure Madame Marisha's inner monologue was something along the lines of "Oh, great, some teenage boy who has zero knowledge of ballet is here to give me his expert opinion."

Cathy and Chris definitely lied about Bart's bio father. Cathy married Paul while she was pregnant with Bart, and Bart was only 3 when Paul died so he mostly grew up with Chris as his father figure. At the end of Petals on the Wind, Cathy says that the kids know they have different fathers who are both in heaven but they never told Bart that Bart Sr. was his father. They just let him assume that Paul was his father.

One of the last time I re-read the series, I made notes every time there was a specific date or someone's age was mentioned so that I had a timeline of everything. I just looked at it and realized that although I knew what the age difference between Paul and Cathy was (24 years), I hadn't realized that Paul was born the same year as Chris Sr. and Cathy was born the same year as Scotty. I know that doesn't change anything but there's that tiny infinitessimal level of eww that goes from "old enough to be my father/daughter" to "the exact same age as my parent/child."

 

[Scarlett45]

16 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Cathy and Chris definitely lied about Bart's bio father. Cathy married Paul while she was pregnant with Bart, and Bart was only 3 when Paul died so he mostly grew up with Chris as his father figure. At the end of Petals on the Wind, Cathy says that the kids know they have different fathers who are both in heaven but they never told Bart that Bart Sr. was his father. They just let him assume that Paul was his father.

I get why they did this though, It was the 70s, and Paul as Bart Jr's legal father was a better option than Bart (just paperwork wise, they were still putting "illegitimate" on birth certificates in South Carolina back then), you know the husband of Cathy's mother. I am sure Paul left Bart Jr money as his heir etc and as his legal father, Cathy could get social security funds for him until he was 18 to assist with raising him (of course Chris was going to provide for Bart and Jory, but I can see Paul being concerned about that in case something happened to Chris one day).

Cathy claiming to have married Paul's much younger brother who was closer to her own age after Paul died (since Chris was using the Sheffield name professionally), was a way to connect them all, and may have raised some eyebrows, but "whatever" (many woman has married an older man, cared for him in his last years, and then married someone her own age later). And is easier to explain to a small child than "your husband was married to my Mom and I conceived you out of revenge." TOTALLY not saying lying is okay, but a many a woman (especially before DNA testing was a thing), let their child believe that a loving step dad was their bio father, especially if said bio father was married to someone else at the child's conception. 

[JAYJAY1979]

I recall in Petals that Cathy and Julian's mom had a huge fight with Madame M noting how Cathy and Chris looked at one another was not how siblings should look at one another.  Carrie also figured it out especially after she fell in love with Alex...and realized the way he looked at her was the same way Cathy and Chris looked at one another.

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

I recall in Petals that Cathy and Julian's mom had a huge fight with Madame M noting how Cathy and Chris looked at one another was not how siblings should look at one another.  Carrie also figured it out especially after she fell in love with Alex...and realized the way he looked at her was the same way Cathy and Chris looked at one another.

Carrie’s suicide BROKE ME. Carrie was so sweet, and she suffered so much trauma in the attic and the physical problems because she was so young when they were trapped there. 
 

After Carrie’s died I know why Cathy was determined to get revenge on Corinne with every last breath in her body. 

[CountryGirl]

Carrie was so tragic. Losing her twin during those hellish years in the attic. Having her growth stunted, making her the object of ridicule from the meanest of mean girls. Mistaking Julian’s gross advances as proof that she wasn’t a freak and that she “loved” him. Being rejected once again by her mother. 

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

Carrie was so tragic. Losing her twin during those hellish years in the attic. Having her growth stunted, making her the object of ridicule from the meanest of mean girls. Mistaking Julian’s gross advances as proof that she wasn’t a freak and that she “loved” him. Being rejected once again by her mother. 

Not to mention having every man she ever cared about fall head over heels for her sister. She did find a guy who seemed to love her but did not feel good enough for him when he decided to become a preacher instead of an engineer.

 Cathy described Carrie's boyfriend as very ordinary and average. We get it Cathy....he is not insanely handsome/smart/rich/talented the way your husbands and boyfriends tend to be.

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Carrie’s suicide BROKE ME. Carrie was so sweet, and she suffered so much trauma in the attic and the physical problems because she was so young when they were trapped there. 
 

After Carrie’s died I know why Cathy was determined to get revenge on Corinne with every last breath in her body. 

Of course, the best revenge would have been just to call the police and tell them what Corinne had done. With Carrie dead and Chris/Cathy being adults, they no longer had to worry about being separated.

But of course the better path to take is to seduce your mother's current husband and get pregnant with the baby he could never have with Corrine. I agree with those who thought Bart loved Corrine and Cathy was just a hot young side chick.

Edited March 26, 2021 by qtpye

[JAYJAY1979]

Cathy was partly to blame for Carrie's suicide.  Had she not brought Carrie with her to Virginia...she wouldn't have been rejected by her mom..thus killing herself.

[Lisa418722]

9 hours ago, qtpye said:

Not to mention having every man she ever cared about fall head over heels for her sister. She did find a guy who seemed to love her but did not feel good enough for him when he decided to become a preacher instead of an engineer.

 Cathy described Carrie's boyfriend as very ordinary and average. We get it Cathy....he is not insanely handsome/smart/rich/talented the way your husbands and boyfriends tend to be.

Also Alex didn't fall in love with Cathy like most men did.  He loved Carrie so that's another reason why he was just "ordinary and average" to Cathy. 
Carrie's story broke my heart the most.  She lost Cory. She was rejected by Corrine. Then Alex decided to be a preacher. 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Lisa418722

[Scarlett45]

10 hours ago, qtpye said:

Not to mention having every man she ever cared about fall head over heels for her sister. She did find a guy who seemed to love her but did not feel good enough for him when he decided to become a preacher instead of an engineer.

 Cathy described Carrie's boyfriend as very ordinary and average. We get it Cathy....he is not insanely handsome/smart/rich/talented the way your husbands and boyfriends tend to be.

Of course, the best revenge would have been just to call the police and tell them what Corinne had done. With Carrie dead and Chris/Cathy being adults, they no longer had to worry about being separated.

But of course the better path to take is to seduce your mother's current husband and get pregnant with the baby he could never have with Corrine. I agree with those who thought Bart loved Corrine and Cathy was just a hot young side chick.

Totally- but we wouldn't have had as juicy of a novel.

 

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

Although I have complained frequently about the many continuity errors that the ghostwriter made, here's one of the few I have about VC Andrews. 

Mine always was that Corinne's name was sometimes Corine in the original books. Even at 9 or 10 years old (whichever is fourth grade?), it bugged the fuck out of me. 

And, seriously (and I can't believe I am saying this at all because ick), but wouldn't it have been easier for Cathy and Chris to not publicly pretend to be were married -- like just admit to being siblings to everyone they know -- and then just, you know...do what they need to do privately?

Edited March 26, 2021 by TattleTeeny

[Scarlett45]

21 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

And, seriously (and I can't believe I am saying this at all because ick), but wouldn't it have been easier for Cathy and Chris to not publicly pretend to be were married -- like just admit to being siblings to everyone they know -- and then just, you know...do what they need to do privately?

I kind of think not, moving away and just pretending to be married would be emotionally easier than having to "hide" their relationship and be siblings in public but not in their bedroom. It wasnt just a sex thing, Cathy and Chris were in love with each other- tons of opposite sex siblings are emotionally close, but they behave in a completely different way than a romantic couple (even a romantic couple that may not be sexually active for religious reasons or something). Chris also wanted to raise Bart and Jory with Cathy, be seen socially as a father and not an uncle. 

Also this was the 1970s, there was a greater expectation for people to be married, and as a young beautiful woman with small children people would've expected Cathy to want to be married, and Chris being a handsome Dr, certainly would've had women after him. Best case they may have thought Chris was gay and thats why he wasnt interested in marrying anyone. Living as a married couple kept up social boundaries with others. So yes the "moving away and pretending to be married" would be intellectually and emotionally easier than living together, pretending to be "just siblings sharing resources" all the time except for when they were alone in a bedroom.