Well, It Says Right Here...: All That's Wrong With Grimm

[Darklazr]

And! And! And! And I have to spoilerize this rant...

It's not even a new character! It's just Juliette, who has been beaten into submission, and decides to change her name. Juliette's body never died and she still has all of Juliette's memories but, for some reason not her emotions--I'm thinking PTSD--which is wrong on at least a couple of levels. #1 - Beating yet another woman into submission is not cool. #2 - This is stupid, stupid, stupid!!!!!

I swear, that is the dumbest, laziest retcon ever....

 

I.don't.get.it!  Why not just kill off Juliette and call it a day?!  Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!  Juliette has to go!

Edited December 15, 2015 by Darklazr

[Actionmage]

From the Nick thread:

 

Grimm acts like a soap opera with all of the bed hopping partners (Nik/Adalind and Renard/Juliette), who's the Daddy (Renard or Eric), back from the dead (Juliette), lies, betrayals, secrets, murders, ONS rape babies (Kelly Jr.), drugged for sex (Hank), etc.... kidnapped child, abort or sell child to the highest bidder, secret organization and spies, rich people doing good and evil...etc... sounds like a soap opera to me!

 

The items you list aren't exclusive to the soap genre.

 

Yes, there is bed-hopping in soaps, but on Grimm, the biggest bed-hopper is Adalind with the mentioned Hank, Nick, Eric and Sean. On-screen, Juliet only ever bed-hopped with Kenneth.  Comic books and murder mysteries have had back-from-the-dead plots for decades.  Who's the Daddy plots have been in straight dramas for ages ( who inherits the whatsis- type stories), and before the coining of the term "nighttime soap", so not exclusively soapy.

 

Speaking of lies, betrayals, secrets, murders, children resulting from rape, drugged sex ( aka rape), kidnapped children, abortion, child selling, and rich people doing good or evil sounds like the entire Law & Order franchise, if not every cop and lawyer show plus CSIs and Criminal Minds. Those aren't considered soap operas because they use these plot lines.

 

Secret organizations and spies have shown up on soaps like General Hospital, yes. Yet, Man From U.N.C.L.E., The FBI, Homeland, The Americans, Alias,  Prison Break, The Player,The Blacklist and plenty of other action-adventure/thriller/espionage shows were soap opera because they had secret organizations and spies? While some of the more current shows have more deepening of the characters and their interactions, that doesn't make them soap operas.

 

Soap opera as a pejorative is lazy. Granted, the writing team seem lazy, but the things that are pointed out as de facto soap elements just aren't exclusively so. 

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this point. 

[ShadowFacts]

From the Nick thread:

 

The items you list aren't exclusive to the soap genre.

 

Yes, there is bed-hopping in soaps, but on Grimm, the biggest bed-hopper is Adalind with the mentioned Hank, Nick, Eric and Sean. On-screen, Juliet only ever bed-hopped with Kenneth.  Comic books and murder mysteries have had back-from-the-dead plots for decades.  Who's the Daddy plots have been in straight dramas for ages ( who inherits the whatsis- type stories), and before the coining of the term "nighttime soap", so not exclusively soapy.

 

Speaking of lies, betrayals, secrets, murders, children resulting from rape, drugged sex ( aka rape), kidnapped children, abortion, child selling, and rich people doing good or evil sounds like the entire Law & Order franchise, if not every cop and lawyer show plus CSIs and Criminal Minds. Those aren't considered soap operas because they use these plot lines.

 

Secret organizations and spies have shown up on soaps like General Hospital, yes. Yet, Man From U.N.C.L.E., The FBI, Homeland, The Americans, Alias,  Prison Break, The Player,The Blacklist and plenty of other action-adventure/thriller/espionage shows were soap opera because they had secret organizations and spies? While some of the more current shows have more deepening of the characters and their interactions, that doesn't make them soap operas.

 

Soap opera as a pejorative is lazy. Granted, the writing team seem lazy, but the things that are pointed out as de facto soap elements just aren't exclusively so. 

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this point. 

 

You make good points.  Relative to how it started, I think the show has become more soap-y, to its detriment.  I do not care what show it is, the who's the daddy or unwanted/unplanned parenthood thing has really run its course.  I could not hate it more.  Especially when we now have DNA testing, which no one has thought to use here.  And in this case, the writers have boxed Adalind in because this baby needs special protection and can't just be cared for by any competent, vetted childcare provider, and there is not a close relative on either side to help out.  I don't see how she can go adventuring or do much mischief whilst holed up in the fortress with an infant, especially now that Trubel has dropped science on Nick that they have been watched all along.  That seems like an illogical writing choice. 

[OtterMommy]

And in this case, the writers have boxed Adalind in because this baby needs special protection and can't just be cared for by any competent, vetted childcare provider, and there is not a close relative on either side to help out.  

 

This is indicative of (yet) another thing that is driving me crazy.  Why does this baby need special protection?  Because of the exactly 0 monsters who have come after it?  No one actually cares about Adalind.  They've only ever cared about Diana.  And, really, no one cares about Nick in a way that his supposed child would be at risk.  I mean, how many times in 4 years was Juliette put in danger just because of Nick?  Twice...and one of those times was Adalind (the other was the fire dancer...another mentally unstable woman).

 

The show just can't tell us to accept things.  They can't just say that Nick won a war against the royals when a-there never actually was a war and b-if there was a war, Nick didn't win it.  They can't tell us that baby Kelly is in great danger when absolutely no danger has ever been shown.  I mean, yeah, maybe Eve/Juliette will come after him, but she'd have to go through Adalind first and I am all for that!  But, other than that, the worst danger facing this child is a respiratory disease from living in a drafty abandoned factory.

 

Dear creative team: If you are reading this (which, let's face it, we know you aren't....) please trust when we say tat the vast majority of viewers on this show are not actually morons.  If you'd like to keep your job, quit treating us all like lobotomized chimps.

[Darklazr]

You make good points.  Relative to how it started, I think the show has become more soap-y, to its detriment.  I do not care what show it is, the who's the daddy or unwanted/unplanned parenthood thing has really run its course.  I could not hate it more.  Especially when we now have DNA testing, which no one has thought to use here.  And in this case, the writers have boxed Adalind in because this baby needs special protection and can't just be cared for by any competent, vetted childcare provider, and there is not a close relative on either side to help out.  I don't see how she can go adventuring or do much mischief whilst holed up in the fortress with an infant, especially now that Trubel has dropped science on Nick that they have been watched all along.  That seems like an illogical writing choice. 

 

I have been watching soap operas for over four decades and a lot of primetime shows have those "soapy elements" that they like to refute, but bed hopping Juliette (Nick, Renard and Kenneth) was shown on the show.

[Darklazr]

You make good points.  Relative to how it started, I think the show has become more soap-y, to its detriment.  I do not care what show it is, the who's the daddy or unwanted/unplanned parenthood thing has really run its course.  I could not hate it more.  Especially when we now have DNA testing, which no one has thought to use here.  And in this case, the writers have boxed Adalind in because this baby needs special protection and can't just be cared for by any competent, vetted childcare provider, and there is not a close relative on either side to help out.  I don't see how she can go adventuring or do much mischief whilst holed up in the fortress with an infant, especially now that Trubel has dropped science on Nick that they have been watched all along.  That seems like an illogical writing choice. 

 

Chavez had no idea that Nick was a Grimm, so not everyone is in the know.  Nick took a picture of Trubel's license plates and had Wu/Hank find her home.  

 

All Nick needed was a secured building or a loft without any paint!

[Prevailing Wind]

 

I mean, how many times in 4 years was Juliette put in danger just because of Nick?  Twice...and one of those times was Adalind (the other was the fire dancer...another mentally unstable woman).

Who was that guy she beaned with the cast iron skillet?  What about her friend, Alicia's husband?  Didn't she fight him off, too?  (I may not be remembering that one right)...but she definitely fought off the dude with her skillet.

[OtterMommy]

Who was that guy she beaned with the cast iron skillet?  What about her friend, Alicia's husband?  Didn't she fight him off, too?  (I may not be remembering that one right)...but she definitely fought off the dude with her skillet.

 

Oh yes, I did forget about the Seigbarste.  So, 3 times.  I wouldn't count Alicia's husband because that whole arc had nothing to do with Nick being a Grimm (and, Nick turned out to be pretty darn useless in that story line anyway). 

 

So, 3 times in 4 years.  And all three of those times happened before she knew Nick was a Grimm.  I'm guessing, had she been in know, she probably could have defended herself.  And, now that I think about it, I don't think you can even count the Siegbarste because he went after Nick because Nick was a cop and Hank's partner, not because he was a Grimm.    So, 2 times in 4 years when it actually had to do with Nick being a Grimm....

 

What I'm saying is that Nick being a Grimm really isn't that big of a threat to anyone except maybe him.  And no one cares about Adalind, so them hiding in the paint factory for "safety" is pretty ridiculous.

[Darklazr]

Let's not forget that Nick is a Grimm with a key, and if that was my baby, I would find a secure location with a live in Nanny!  Seriously.  Nick's previous home had a lot of violence and Monroe told him that place was not good for the baby.  Whatshername led Kenneth and company into the home that she shared with Nick for six years and we know that six of his neighbors are now dead.  Chavez and the HW folks apparently know where Nick lives and whatshername is a grown woman versus Kelly Jr. being a baby.

[ShadowFacts]

I think Nick's initial motivator indeed was his girlfriend being killed in their home, and of course his mother's beheading death.  He'd have to be nuts to stay there and think it was a fine place for himself and a baby.  Additional reasons to fear for little Kelly's safety are not knowing who might want to get their hands on a Grimm baby with a hexenbiest mother.  Leaving aside the uprising and all of that, Nick has tangled with plenty of nasty wesen including most recently those Wesenrein miscreants.  Vengeance for that big massacre in the park would be in the realm of possibilities in a Grimm/cop's mind  All of that would make me very security conscious, but that big stupid paint factory is obviously not too secure.  I mean, what would Adalind have done if that had been someone other than Meisner creeping around when Nick wasn't there? 

[Darklazr]

I think Nick's initial motivator indeed was his girlfriend being killed in their home, and of course his mother's beheading death.  He'd have to be nuts to stay there and think it was a fine place for himself and a baby.  Additional reasons to fear for little Kelly's safety are not knowing who might want to get their hands on a Grimm baby with a hexenbiest mother.  Leaving aside the uprising and all of that, Nick has tangled with plenty of nasty wesen including most recently those Wesenrein miscreants.  Vengeance for that big massacre in the park would be in the realm of possibilities in a Grimm/cop's mind  All of that would make me very security conscious, but that big stupid paint factory is obviously not too secure.  I mean, what would Adalind have done if that had been someone other than Meisner creeping around when Nick wasn't there? 

 

I think Nick should have had better home security once he shot the Reaper in episode one and all of the wesen folks showing up to stare at a Grimm.    

 

The Reaper followed Marie to Nick's house, the guy that Monroe killed to protect Hank, the mentally ill woman that put the moves on Nick, Manticore, the wesen that was looking for the key in whatshernames dresser, Kenneth and his people, the Asian guy looking for the gold coins, etc...  Nick was lousy at keeping his home protected and he's a cop!

[OtterMommy]

I think Nick should have had better home security once he shot the Reaper in episode one and all of the wesen folks showing up to stare at a Grimm.    

 

The Reaper followed Marie to Nick's house, the guy that Monroe killed to protect Hank, the mentally ill woman that put the moves on Nick, Manticore, the wesen that was looking for the key in whatshernames dresser, Kenneth and his people, the Asian guy looking for the gold coins, etc...  Nick was lousy at keeping his home protected and he's a cop!

 

Just not putting your spare key in the flower part would be an improvement in home security.  It's actually a bit hilarious that he went from the world's least protected house to a factory fortress--and people still find him.  Really, all he had to do was get a freakin' security system!

 

Also, just curious...does anyone think that the real reason that Nick moved is that the owners of Nick's "real" house just don't want their home on the show anymore? I know that they get a lot of fan tourism (people checking out their house, having their picture taken in front of it, etc) and maybe they were just done.  I haven't seen anything about it, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[Lii]

Actually, I can't say they've even been that great with Rosalee, especially this season.

 

They do well when Rosalee has something concrete to do--dispense knowledge, beat up people, make potions.  But, when they try to show her as an actual woman..she falls flat.  What woman, after spending the day moaning over her grief over the death of her best friend, would then tell the BF's boyfriend that he has to man up and "be" there for the woman who not only raped him but who was ultimately responsible at least for starting the path that sent the friend to her death?  I mean, really?

 

They've never succeeded in making Rosalee "girly," which is fine.  Women don't need to be girly and, frankly, girly wouldn't work well paired with Monroe's character.  But they've also never really succeeded in making her feminine either.  Feminine isn't about being girly or sexy or anything like that.  It's about coming from the experience of being female.  Frankly, when Rosalee works, a male character really could have filled the same role.

The best thing they've ever done with Rosalee is the continuing aftermath of her addiction arc. Living as an addict as a woman is so incredibly different from the experience a man has, so I appreciate that they continue to characterize her consistently in accordance with her original addiction and gang-related family backstory.

[OtterMommy]

I guess bland is the new "bad-ass."

At least Daisy was born Daisy. She gave herself the name Skye, which was a more bad-ass name, while Daisy sounds significantly less so. Like, she's running around in her bondage outfit (see, Arrow) and being called Daisy. And at least they built her up as a bad-ass. She was trained in fighting, etc., before the transformation, which just gave her powers and did not suddenly make her a ninja. She had backstory and growth.

Yes, now they'll have a reason for the awesome Juliette, errr.. EVE.L. character to have something more to do than Google, and I'm thrilled, So much so, I'm going to do the OtterMommy and not watch the show if she's featured prominently. I refuse to support David's squeeze. Thank goodness the bad redheaded actress on Sleepy Hollow wasn't sleeping with Tom Mison.

I still can't believe we lost MEM to this...wallpaper.

 

 

I think that the fact that this show has effectively, as far as I can tell on social media, divided into two groups--one that hates Adalind and one that hates Juliette--and then decided to piss them both off brings up this fundamental question: Has the creative team completely drained their vat of ideas and abilities or do they just not give a shit anymore?

 

You know, I was not against the return of Juliette.  I mean, I didn't want it and I think the show would have been much better off, after what happened in season 4, to leave her dead--but I knew from the moment Juliette was hit with darts from a non-fatal weapon, shot by a guilty, but not very upset, Trubel, that this would not be the last we saw of her.  To me it was a done deal and just a matter of time before she was back.  And, honestly, I thought I'd be okay with it.  After all, I told myself, it will be better than Nadalind.

 

While I'm still think that this is not as revolting as Adalind, I am far more pissed by Juliette's return than I thought I would be.  It is just so horribly done.  I mean, this show has been ripping things off from the creators' earlier works pretty much since season 1 (is it really stealing if you steal from yourself?  Nah...it's not great, but whatevs).  Now, however, they are taking story lines from sources outside their own little world. We have history, which admittedly is fair game, but one must tread pretty damn carefully when mining the Holocaust for ideas (and, from what I can tell, they decided to stomp with all their might).  And how many story lines and characters do we have now that are taken from Marvel?

 

Note to the creative team:  Don't steal from Marvel. You will never be able to do the story better than they do.

 

Juliette/Eve is a cop out on every level and it makes me almost as sick to think about it as it does to think about Nadalind (almost...I still think Nadalind is worse).  So, for those of you still watching...please keep supplying the snark bait for those of us sitting it out.  Sigh!

[spaulding]

The Reaper followed Marie to Nick's house, the guy that Monroe killed to protect Hank, the mentally ill woman that put the moves on Nick, Manticore, the wesen that was looking for the key in whatshernames dresser, Kenneth and his people, the Asian guy looking for the gold coins, etc...  Nick was lousy at keeping his home protected and he's a cop!

 

I miss the Reapers. 

 

Where is the key?  I thought it was in Nick's desk at work.  He's so lousy about everything.

[tpel]

I think that the fact that this show has effectively, as far as I can tell on social media, divided into two groups--one that hates Adalind and one that hates Juliette--and then decided to piss them both off brings up this fundamental question: Has the creative team completely drained their vat of ideas and abilities or do they just not give a shit anymore?

 

 

I don't hate anybody, though I do hate what the writers have done to certain characters. If the show-runners pay any attention at all to social media, I think that is a distinction they miss. I like Juliette just fine, and didn't have a problem with BT's understated acting, but I hate how the writers seem determined to rob her of her agency at every turn. I thought Adalind was hilarious when she had to go through various disgusting trials to get her powers back, and am intrigued by the thought that she could maybe be redeemable. But I loathe the idea of a romantic pairing between her and the guy she sexually assaulted, and I want her role on the show to be based on something other than repeated pregnancies and consequent neediness. I think I'm an anomaly when it comes to Juliette -- there seems to be genuine hatred toward the character and the actress out there. So, with regard to her character, the writers can't win. Leaving her dead might have spared them some of the current ire, but it would have been bad storytelling. If they wanted her off the show, they should have had her leave Nick two years ago rather than have us suffer through degrading story arcs with her. And as OtterMommy notes, her death had "not permanent" written all over it; making it permanent would have screamed "last minute re-write". The writers haven't boxed themselves in quite so much with Adalind, however. Just get her out of Nick's warehouse of solitude, maybe find Diana, join the resistance, or even go back to being kind of evil.

Edited December 17, 2015 by tpel

[Darklazr]

I miss the Reapers. 

 

Where is the key?  I thought it was in Nick's desk at work.  He's so lousy about everything.

 

This!  Kelly told her son to treat the Grimmabago with respect because of their family heritage and his lazy behind just allows everyone access?!  WTF?!  Nick, Hank and Wu eat while handling ancient books and other materials.  Nick finds out his crazy ex is a hexenbiest who he saw recently at the Grimmabago, she tries to shoot Monroe and he just leaves the trailer out in the woods without moving it to a new location?  

 

Oh, yes, whatshername leaving that key under the flowerpot when she should have taken her purse (!) to the awards dinner makes a whole lot of sense, because I thought Nick was still living with Monroe at the time?!

 

The two keys are in the floorboard safe at the Spice Shop which is just as dumb as not moving the trailer!

 

Nick became really dumb in order for the show to pimp and prop whatshername!

Edited December 18, 2015 by Darklazr

[TVSpectator]

I miss the Reapers. 

 

Where is the key?  I thought it was in Nick's desk at work.  He's so lousy about everything.

 

IMO, I think that the thing that I hate the most about this show, besides seeing Juliette alive and Nick/Adalind trying to play house together is that this show has totally dropped some really good ideas for some really bad ideas (like Nick and Adalind living together. Now, I don't outright hate Adalind, but what I hate about them living together is the fact that she did indeed raped him and there isn't even so much as a spark of anger from him and also, IMO, its  sicking to see Adalind, act like she is some kind of victim as well. It's like Nick is dead and has become a mindless zombie while the writers just decided that they shall be a couple, because they had a rape baby together. 

 

Also, I don't like Juliette (personally, I like Adalind much better than Juliette from the start of this show) and I am angered that they have brought back a character I was hoping was dead. I guess now we have to put up with a storyline where Nick is trying to reconnect with Juliette and Adalind will get jealousy or something. Which will then probably leads to Adalind becoming evil, again.

[jhlipton]

The thing that irks me is that, per Teresa, that Hadrian's Wall is such a double--uber-secret part of the government that most folks barely have an idea of Hadrian's Wall's existence. That means that taxpayers are footing the bill for $30k + motorcycles and globe-spanning trips and all other spy stuff with the added wtfery of apparently no oversight or answering to the President or anything! 

 

Impossible Mission Force, Bridgestone (or whatever from the Jason Bourne movies), UNCLE, Project Daylight from The Blandspot... These shadow organtions are ubiquitous.

 

I mean, how many times in 4 years was Juliette put in danger just because of Nick?  

 

As mentioned in another context, the Manticore as well.

[Actionmage]

These shadow organtions are ubiquitous.

 

I  am fairly sure that's a chunk of why I'm feeling tired- if I wanted to watch spies, there are umpty million of them already on the air.  I want to see "The Cop With Something Extra" and his fairy tale pals and fellow cops. The show did not need Hadrian's Wall. Just trying to figure out How Things Are, Global Division ( outside of the Wesen Council and the Viennese Royals) could have proven tense, thrilling, dangerous and dark without having to go to the most tired and very well-trod path of Super Secret Organizations. 

[Free]

I  am fairly sure that's a chunk of why I'm feeling tired- if I wanted to watch spies, there are umpty million of them already on the air.  I want to see "The Cop With Something Extra" and his fairy tale pals and fellow cops. The show did not need Hadrian's Wall. Just trying to figure out How Things Are, Global Division ( outside of the Wesen Council and the Viennese Royals) could have proven tense, thrilling, dangerous and dark without having to go to the most tired and very well-trod path of Super Secret Organizations. 

 

Most shows can't even handle this let alone this series.  Keep in mind, the main characters have only recently gotten involved 5 SEASONS in, it's hard to be invested in something that's been completely isolated from the main chracters up until this point because it was poorly set up and executed.

[OtterMommy]

I miss the Reapers. 

 

Where is the key?  I thought it was in Nick's desk at work.  He's so lousy about everything.

 

The keys are under a floorboard in the spice shop (Renard stole the key from Nick's super-duper secure desk and, once Nick got it back, he kept it on his person until the 2nd key showed up.  Wearing TWO keys around his neck would have been too much bling, so he had Rosalee hide them).

 

Speaking of the keys, they show REALLY messed up with them.  I mean, yeah, we all know that.  They introduced them as a major plot point and then completely dropped it for almost 2 seasons.  But, you know, they could have used those keys in a different way..in a way that would have kept the plot going for a good 9 seasons.  

 

Season 1: Nick gets the key

Season 2: The whole mess with Renard and the Royals and Nick learns what the key really is

Season 3: Nick gets the 2nd key from Rolek

 

That all happened...now, suppose:

Season 4: Nick finds the 3rd key in Henrietta's house when he's investigating her murder.

 

Season 5:

Monroe gets the 4th key from his wacky uncle

(spoilerized only because something like this might happen...)

 

Season 6: "Eve" kills Adalind in an epic battle, but she is mortally wounded.  With her last few breaths, she pulls something out of her decolletage and hands it to Nick, saying, "This is for the Grimmebago.  Meisner has another one...gasp!" It is the 5th key.

 

Season 7: Nick goes in search of Meisner, who is hunting the Trumopsaurus (sorry, couldn't resist) who is rounding up an army of wesen with his fiery rhetoric in another attempt to take over the White House.  They kick some ass, have some laughs, and Meisner hands over key #6.

 

Season 8: Nick has a new girlfriend...a geneticist with a very unique research focus involving parts of the "human" genome that are still a mystery to most scientists, giving her a knowledge no book or wesen would ever have.  He goes to her family's house for Thanksgiving and there, in a shadow box on the wall, is the 7th key.  No wonder he liked this girl!  He tells her all about the keys and the girl, always up for an adventure, sneaks the shadowbox off the wall (replacing it with a framed copy of her kindergarten picture, of course!) and the two put all the keys together to build the map.

 

Season 9: Nick proposes to said girlfriend (with a new ring!) and she, without any drama, says yes.  They get married and they spend their honeymoon exploring the Black Forest, following the map made by the keys, until they find a cave. They enter the cave and deep, deep inside is a door with 7 locks.  Luckily, new-wife brought the keys along!  Nick puts the keys in the lock one by one and right as he's about to turn the 7th key...there is a ringing that just WON'T STOP.

 

BAM!  Nick wakes up, realizes that the alarm on his phone has been going off for ages and there is a familiar looking redhead in bed next to him.  "Man," he thinks, "That was one hell of a dream."

 

(Many thanks to Neuromom's son for the ending!)

 

Now, obviously, that's all crazy stuff....but what I'm saying is that the creative team missed a HUGE opportunity by dropping the keys for so long and now they are planning to just solve it all over a few episodes.  That's like going out to eat at the hippest restaurant, having a fabulous meal, and then being served a Popsicle (an ACTUAL popsicle, none of this nouveau artisan food crap....) for dessert.

 

If they had just kept the keys going a bit in the background, giving the audience a bit more each season to keep them interested and coming back, this could have been a fabulous plot (with a different ending).  But, no.....

 

Also, this posts shows you all why I do not write FanFic.

Edited December 18, 2015 by OtterMommy

[Prevailing Wind]

 

and there is a familiar looking redhead in bed next to him.

Suzanne Pleshette?

[Darklazr]

Renard said the Royals have four keys and it took them three hundred years to get them.  Nick has two keys, so there is only one key missing and maybe it is coming up in a few months.

 

Nick should be more concerned with the security of a baby, because he has seen first hand the amount of damage done in his old home.

[jhlipton]

Season 6: "Eve" kills Adalind in an epic battle, but she is mortally wounded.  With her last few breaths, she pulls something out of her decolletage and hands it to Nick, saying, "This is for the Grimmebago.  Meisner has another one...gasp!" It is the 5th key.

 

Nick puts the keys in the lock one by one and right as he's about to turn the 7th key...

Adalind kills Eve (before leaving to star in her own show!).  With her last breath, Eve says "...[etc]"

 

If the writers used your ending, we'd hang them from the highest tree.

 

Otherwise, fun!  I liked the no-drama geneticist!

[spaulding]

The two keys are in the floorboard safe at the Spice Shop which is just as dumb as not moving the trailer!

 

The keys are under a floorboard in the spice shop (Renard stole the key from Nick's super-duper secure desk and, once Nick got it back, he kept it on his person until the 2nd key showed up.  Wearing TWO keys around his neck would have been too much bling, so he had Rosalee hide them).

 

Thanks for the reminder.  It does seem easy to forget a lot of what has happened on Grimm because the storylines keep getting dropped. 

[Free]

Also, this posts shows you all why I do not write FanFic.

 

If anything, your fanfic sounds better than the show.

[Enero]

The show did not need Hadrian's Wall. Just trying to figure out How Things Are, Global Division ( outside of the Wesen Council and the Viennese Royals) could have proven tense, thrilling, dangerous and dark without having to go to the most tired and very well-trod path of Super Secret Organizations.

Agreed. The show also didn't need Truble/Trouble. She adds absolutely nothing to the show or the storylines. It's too bad they didn't properly set up the Royals and didn't keep Renard at the very least gray and pushing his own agenda. As someone stated, I can't recall if it was here or elsewhere, but the show has no tension whatsoever.

Nick is very passive and has absolutely no agenda (I guess he may soon if he joins the resistance, but again it's someone else's agenda which he's playing a part in) and even if he did have his own agenda, there's no one of power to truly challenge him and cause tension.

Still I think the show is entertaining in a leave your brain at the door kind of way which is actually a good thing. Everything can't be Game of Thrones and really doesn't need to be. Even from the start there were many things that made no sense about this show but I still found myself enjoying it.

Anyway, I say if they can't get things right on this show, just scrap it and start over with a spin off with Diana and Kelly. Powerful Hexanbeast Diana versus her powerful Grimm/Hexanbeast brother Kelly. I think a show about them fighting on opposite sides could be very interesting if done right.

[OtterMommy]

Okay, thanks.

As with the main storyline, what was the main storyline anyway (aside from Nick discovering his Grimm heritage/ The Grimm world)? It seemed that they were trying to set up something with the Royals but by last season they totally killed off the main villains for no real reason other than for "sweeps".

 

 

Yeah, the way I saw it was that the main story line was about a guy who had to walk between two worlds.  I guess it could be argued that the story line HAD to change...more people had to be in on the secret--how long could he keep it from Hank, Juliette...and then Wu...  The problem seems to be that the creators just let that story line become obsolete instead of evolving it into something that could either last longer or into something that could then be evolved into something else.  Instead, they killed off a couple characters, told everyone it was a "war" and bluntly started a new story line that came out of nowhere.

 

Edited because, for some damn reason, it keeps putting two copies of what I type in each post....

Edited January 28, 2016 by OtterMommy

[Actionmage]

As my initial anger subsides, I just realized another angrying pattern in this episode: All the women have been relegated to staying behind!

 

Rosalee: After getting Felix back to the Spice Shop, she took on Renard's traditional role of Phone Whisperer, by getting belated and second-hand info from Alexander. She dialed a phone, drove a car, and received information, which she passed on to others.

 

Teresa: She at least had a fight scene with the person who was  the shotcaller, Meisner. Teresa is totally down with watching/protecting Kelly, if not entirely the Adalind addition. Teresa also, not without reason, is apologizing to Nick about keeping info from him. Granted, by her own explanation, there wasn't much time to actually call Nick as she was constantly kept on missions globally. Yet, apparently she feels she could have got a call through at some point. Maybe, I don't know... an e-mail or text would be a good start? That way the man who took you in and helped you wouldn't think you were potentially as dead as his mother and not-wife?  This isn't even the T.Rubel we met in her first episode. This is an Un-Teresa. She looks tired and old. (Thanks Make-Up and Hair?)

 

Adalind: While I don't have much sympathy for her, the woman seemed to be a white-shoe law firm lawyer. She seemed to have the looks, money and high-powered career to keep her beyond comfortable. Then the end of S3 came along and now she's seemingly completely dependent on Nick, the man who took away her powers initially and helped spirit her first child away ( with his mother- who killed her mother!), as opposed to taking that nice job offer and getting the hell out of The Fortress of Dull.  Also, she is okay being a sitting duck/target, because if Teresa and Meisner know where Nick is, then almost anyone else wesen probably knows too.

 

But Our Adalind is uneasy but fine staying put and hoping no one finds her and the baby and Teresa is perfectly fine as her only bodyguard. Really? The hexen who was told to quit going at things head-on, just last season?

 

Juliette/Eve: *sigh* She got to be active, but she was barely in the 'automaton' category. Eve seemed barely sentient. It was implied that she was beaten into subservience/weapon-grade service and she, while not happily, without much ado goes back to her cage/ holding cell and locks herself in. ( Debate over to protect herself or others or both has probably already started.)  That is not someone with agency, in my book. She is expected to stay in her cell/ "holster" until she's ready to be used. That is the impression I was left with. 

 

This isn't about Bitsie's acting chops, but the character's ability to have a say in her life, for me. It's not a good storyline-- when is beating someone into doing good a good thing(?). This is not the platform for that question, especially when this show hasn't been able to handle other weighty matters in a reasonable, tasteful manner after four and a half seasons.

 

I don't think I would have been quite so angry about this pattern if it wasn't Nick barking the orders and the women looking on meekly and accepting ( Teresa and Adalind) or just as if it's expected ( Rosalee. She was in her own damn business; she can go where she wants, especially if it was to feel safer. Her husband was directly threatened and had an attempted murder he survived. She can ignore Nick all she wants in the name of safety, as far as I care.)

 

Part of this is the assification of heroes in shows I've been watching. I don't understand why the various writers insist on going in this direction, especially when there is no build or lead up to the hero of a show going assy.

[OtterMommy]

Part of this is the assification of heroes in shows I've been watching. I don't understand why the various writers insist on going in this direction, especially when there is no build or lead up to the hero of a show going assy.

 

This show is doing an increasingly disgusting job dealing with women.  Yes, it was kind of a sausage fest in the early days, but they didn't do anything that was actively anti-woman.  However, in the last season in a half, we have had:

• 2 (Adalind and Juliette), maybe 3 (possibly Trubel) women be beaten--either physically or emotionally or both--into submission by men
• One character, Rosalee, who has formerly a strong central character, be relegated to the background
• One pregnancy, which resulted from an instance where a woman really, really should have known better.  (Will someone just give that woman an IUD?)
• A rape excused because, why, Adalind is hot?
• Some really weird thing where Nick has sex with women who are not the women they look like--as if all women are interchangeable (yes, I know the first time was the rape....but the second time definitely had a pervy vibe)
• A very powerful, and as I said on another thread, wealthy woman transformed into a drab stay-at-dingy-warehouse caregiver

And I'm sure I'm forgetting other infractions.  If they did one or two of these things--whatever.   But the sheer number of things that they've done in a relatively short period of time makes me wonder if the creators are painfully clueless or if they actually have issues with women.

Edited January 30, 2016 by OtterMommy

[kathyk24]

The writers are nuts if they think the audience will forget what Juliette did. Changing her name and having her kill some Wesen doesn't matter.

[icewolf]

At this point, I'm only watching for the monster of the week episodes and most of the likable actors.

The show's big arc sucks right now, and has sucked since season 2. It just went to a new extreme in season 4b.

Imagine if season 5 Nick went back in time and told the Pilot episode Nick about what had happened to him. Living with his mortal enemy, raising a kid now that he is the baby daddy, Juliette being turned into a monster weapon who wears terrible wigs. Past Nick would probably go insane.

[Commando Cody]

I really enjoyed season one. Since then, this show has had many dropped story lines. It comes across as the writers making stuff up as they went along - like there was no end game or any goal of any kind at all. At times during this series, it was a soap opera. I don't know what happened. They were doing so well at the beginning. 

[ottilie]

"It's too bad they didn't properly set up the Royals and didn't keep Renard at the very least gray and pushing his own agenda."

   Agreed. Sasha Roiz is a great actor. I think they felt after the first or second season that they had to end the conflict of Roiz plotting things in order to keep the show going, so they had him transition into a 'resistance' member. (I only recently realized the Star Wars similarity of having the resistance). Sometimes the show all of a sudden explains the rules of magic or some unexplained thing. In Grimm, it is known that grimms and some wesen have historically worked for royals in order to keep order, and also that royals are mostly evil. And royals have magical blood which makes them entitled to power.

 

But currently, the royals have been out of power since World War I. I think they could explain what happened by saying that a powerful witch put a curse on the families. They could also explain how wesen came to be, by saying that witches are the ones in charge. Many fairy tales of europe are a version of the 'frog prince' where a person with good traits lifts the curse which had been set on somebody by a witch years ago (turning them into a frog or similar) and then they are rewarded by becoming a prince or inheriting wealth.

 

Also - good move to get rid of the council. I saw why they had invented the council (there was a vampire council in True Blood too), but it was unclear how they enforced the rules or if they were elected, or how the different wesen species get along despite contrasting personalities. They were awfully unprepared for this one attack too. So they had to go.

Edited January 30, 2016 by ottilie

[Free]

The writers are nuts if they think the audience will forget what Juliette did. Changing her name and having her kill some Wesen doesn't matter.

 

The Eve nonsense is somehow even worse the evil one we had last season.

[ShadowFacts]

 

eresa: She at least had a fight scene with the person who was  the shotcaller, Meisner. Teresa is totally down with watching/protecting Kelly, if not entirely the Adalind addition. Teresa also, not without reason, is apologizing to Nick about keeping info from him. Granted, by her own explanation, there wasn't much time to actually call Nick as she was constantly kept on missions globally. Yet, apparently she feels she could have got a call through at some point. Maybe, I don't know... an e-mail or text would be a good start? That way the man who took you in and helped you wouldn't think you were potentially as dead as his mother and not-wife?  This isn't even the T.Rubel we met in her first episode. This is an Un-Teresa. She looks tired and old. (Thanks Make-Up and Hair?)

What they've done with Teresa so far since she returned irks me a lot.  She really is the Un-Teresa.  I think part of the way she looks may be due to what appears to be weight loss -- makes her face look kind of gaunt.  She doesn't look as robust as she used to. 

 

Adalind is trapped by this inane baby story, not that she was ever very clever or powerful.  She mostly used sex and babies to manipulate men, and now she has herself in a little corner.  It doesn't come off very interesting, let's face it, especially not in that awful paint factory. 

 

Juliette as subservient to Meissner, and them showing a flashback of him hitting her, ugh.  I'll be damned if I end up feeling sorry for her, and hating Meissner, but that's where this is heading for me.  The ends/means thing isn't working for me. 

 

 

[catrox14]

I so annoyed  right now.  I don't understand wtf they are doing with this show. 

 

I am struggling to stick with it now, and that makes me sad.

[OtterMommy]

The writers are nuts if they think the audience will forget what Juliette did. Changing her name and having her kill some Wesen doesn't matter.

 

What's even more nuts is there are A LOT of people who will forget it all.  Heck, they've forgotten all of Adalind's past sins which were much more numerous (and I'd argue almost as bad) than Juliette's.

 

Ugh!  Why is NBC allowing this to go on?  Seriously, either just cancel the show or fire the creative team and bring in new people!

[Free]

What's even more nuts is there are A LOT of people who will forget it all.  Heck, they've forgotten all of Adalind's past sins which were much more numerous (and I'd argue almost as bad) than Juliette's.

 

Ugh!  Why is NBC allowing this to go on?  Seriously, either just cancel the show or fire the creative team and bring in new people!

 

Sadly, S5b seems to be more contrived Juliette/Eve and Adalind drama.

[Commando Cody]

The sad part is, the writers tried to pull off a character is dead angle. Few people really believed she was dead. Quite a few people are irritated that she's back. 

I kept waiting for Nick to ask what happened to the head. He had the opportunity. 

 

I can't blame the writers for everything. I think the TV show The Simpsons is the only TV show that insisted on putting "no network interference" in their contract. That show has been on for 25+ years. Producers and network executives can ruin shows as well. Although, even with the uneven stories they have, the writing really could be better. Who really knows what goes on. Possibly the best TV writers in the world couldn't save some of this tripe. 

[OtterMommy]

I've said this before. I know a lot of people say not to cater to the fans, but when they're falling away in droves to the point it's hard to keep your show on the air, you'd think at least the loss of revenue would make them change course.

 

There is a difference between catering to fans and listening to fans.  Catering to fans: forcing a relationship between two characters that makes absolutely no sense based on everything that has gone on in the 4 year history of the show.  Listening to fans: returning to the quirky humor and procedural element of the early seasons (or, staying away from soap opera dramatics of the current season).

 

In the end, it's a business and viewers are the consumers.  If you are losing consumers, you need to make a change...and fast...if you want to survive in the marketplace.

[Commando Cody]

I take a peak at the Grimm Facebook page once in a while. The majority of new posts this week are all about Eve. Generally the posters there are the biggest cheerleaders, but this is the first time I've seen this much negativity over a character. It is kind of like they're pulling a "Sleepy Hollow". The way they are promoting the character on that page made me want to ask if this show was about Grimm or about Eve. 

[Prevailing Wind]

 

If you take a horrible idea and a horrible actress and pat yourselves on the back over your decisions, then people get the idea you're completely out of touch with your fanbase.

Fanbase, Schmanbase.  If you do that, you're completely out of touch with good storytelling.

[OtterMommy]

I take a peak at the Grimm Facebook page once in a while. The majority of new posts this week are all about Eve. Generally the posters there are the biggest cheerleaders, but this is the first time I've seen this much negativity over a character. It is kind of like they're pulling a "Sleepy Hollow". The way they are promoting the character on that page made me want to ask if this show was about Grimm or about Eve. 

 

I've noticed that, too.  There has been more and more anti-Nadalind sentiment (which I support!) as well.  But, really the most telling thing people are saying is that this show is too much of a soap opera.

[catrox14]

I take a peak at the Grimm Facebook page once in a while. The majority of new posts this week are all about Eve. Generally the posters there are the biggest cheerleaders, but this is the first time I've seen this much negativity over a character. It is kind of like they're pulling a "Sleepy Hollow". The way they are promoting the character on that page made me want to ask if this show was about Grimm or about Eve. 

 

I feel like the show started being about Nick again but now...I just kind of give up. 

[OtterMommy]

I think they see Eve as "breathing new life" into the show. I think they overestimate Bitsie's/Juliette's appeal. She does have some fans, no doubt, but Juliette is such a divisive character, that to put her front and center just doesn't make sense. Instead of beefing up your lead and making him awesome, they're trying to take a formerly boring, aimless character and trying to make her interesting and "bad-ass."  Meanwhile, they've neutered the real bad-ass.

 

See, this is where I think they are misreading their audience.  I think there were a lot of people who liked Juliette--or even just the idea of her.  They wanted the lead to have a somewhat stable relationship and be, in at least that area of his life, relatively happy.  The problem is that they confused the idea of Juliette with Bitsie Tulloch.  I'm just going to go the more p.c. route and say that BT is miscast, but that doesn't change the fact that she is not performing the role the way it needs to be performed.

 

On some level, I think they know that...which is why it appears they are trying to put Nick and Adalind together--except that belies the "idea" that people were fans of.  Again here we go.  Catering to the audience: sticking Nick with the closest unattached female because there needs to be a RELATIONSHIP!  Listening to the audience: Nick needs to have one functional area of his life and that should be his personal life.  Now, he needs to clean up the current mess but, once that is done, there should be a functioning relationship.  A relationship with his enemy is not a functioning relationship.  A relationship with whatever his former/late/transformed girlfriend has become is also not a functioning relationship.  If they listened to the audience, they would know that.

[OtterMommy]

When Juliette slammed the Ogre with a frying pan? THAT was believable? Sudden ninja skills and stick arms? Not so much. It looked like the guy just stood there and got beaten up. Not only that, but they didn't establish Juliette this way. Again, her last takedown was with a frying pan!  In order for the audience to suspend disbelief, you have to get them in the palm of your hand. Show them that the impossible is possible. Give plausible explanations. Lead them up to it. 

 

Actually, she took him down by throwing boiling water in his face (the frying pan barely even phased him).

 

But, I totally get what you are saying.  Juliette was never a really well-conceived character beyond "the girlfriend."  She was a vet who had mad self-defense skills and was a savant with a gun.  She was supposedly clueless yet uber-smart.  It just didn't make any sense.  And then, *poof*, she's the most powerful hexenbiest to ever walk the earth.

 

Adalind suffered from the same thing.  She's a temptress with mommy issues who has now had feelings for Renard, Meisner, and apparently Nick--when, really, the only one of those that made sense was Meisner.  She went from being out for revenge to *poof* supposedly forgiving every one and expecting them to forgive her.

 

Trubel is even falling into the same trap--at least from what I've read here. 

 

All I can say is that they really need to get more women on that writing staff....

[spaulding]

I take a peak at the Grimm Facebook page once in a while. The majority of new posts this week are all about Eve. Generally the posters there are the biggest cheerleaders, but this is the first time I've seen this much negativity over a character. It is kind of like they're pulling a "Sleepy Hollow". The way they are promoting the character on that page made me want to ask if this show was about Grimm or about Eve.

 

I think they see Eve as "breathing new life" into the show. I think they overestimate Bitsie's/Juliette's appeal. She does have some fans, no doubt, but Juliette is such a divisive character, that to put her front and center just doesn't make sense. Instead of beefing up your lead and making him awesome, they're trying to take a formerly boring, aimless character and trying to make her interesting and "bad-ass."

 

That's probably what is aggravating me.  Tulloch should have remained in the background.  Her character didn't merit a leading role.  Tulloch's acting abilities didn't merit a bigger part.  The showrunners like her and gave her a bigger role, which Tulloch wanted.  At the detriment of storylines. 

 

That is the very definition of a Mary Sue. Just...please. You're more powerful than a hexie who was born one? Just...way to completely neuter Adalind to build up Juliette as the most ridiculous bad-ass ever.

 

Adalind was so well-rounded. That's how you write a villain. You give them a little backstory so the audience understands why they do what they do. Horrible mommy. Getting played by the man you love. I mean, we could feel sorry for her at the same time we hated what she did.

 

Tulloch wanted a bigger role and wanted to be some badass.  Look what happens.  Other characters suffer for Tulloch's ego.  I always knew that Adalind would be beta to Juliette, who has to be the alpha female no matter what. 

 

Everybody on this show got sucked into Juliette's storyline.  It's like getting sucked into a black hole.  Even Renard got off his phone long enough to play a part in Juliette's transformation. 

 

And nothing good came out of the badass/fake wig storyline.  And Meisner's getting sucked in now.  Poor Meisner and his abs.

 

It's not like they could never write women well. It's not like they don't know how to craft a good story with well-rounded characters. This absolute collapse is INTENTIONAL, and that's what pisses me off the most.

 

The female villain of the week could have been written well too.  Mama Aswang and La Llorona were creepy. 

 

But they started building her up into a ninja all of a sudden out of NOWHERE. I mean, when she took down that big guy, I laughed my ass off. I'm aware there are small women who can take down big men, where it's believable. Caity Lotz on Arrow/Legends of Tomorrow comes to mind. She's tiny, but you totally buy that she can take down men three times her size. They built her up that way.

 

I just started watching Legends of Tomorrow.  I love White Canary.  She's a perfect example of somebody who's badass.  She doesn't have to tell you that she's badass.  She just is.  She's not some pretend robotic weapon.  She's awesome when she's fighting men twice her size, and she has a personality, like when she's stealing a bud of MJ for later use.

 

At this point, Legends and XFiles are replacing Grimm for me.  Ugh, so many good shows that I have yet to watch (like Jessica Jones, Flash, SHIELD, Arrow, and Daredevil) while I aggravate myself with how bad Grimm has gotten. 

 

All I can say is that they really need to get more women on that writing staff....

 

This show suffered a lot when Akela Cooper left.

Edited January 31, 2016 by spaulding

[OtterMommy]

This show suffered a lot when Akela Cooper left.

 

I believe she left at the end of season 2 which, yep, is when thing started to become unfrayed.  It took another season to completely implode, but we did still have the year of Adalind running around Europe....

 

Honestly, I think that they should pay whatever they can to get Akela Cooper back.  I think she's currently working on The 100--NBC should be able to pay enough to get her away from a secondary network.