Well, It Says Right Here...: All That's Wrong With Grimm

[kathyk24]

There is one huge reason Nick from Season One is different from the one we see now angst. When the show started Nick had a stable personal and professional life now he's broken and trying to hold everything together. He's making mistakes because he's operating on autopilot and his focus isn't there.

[OtterMommy]

There is one huge reason Nick from Season One is different from the one we see now angst. When the show started Nick had a stable personal and professional life now he's broken and trying to hold everything together. He's making mistakes because he's operating on autopilot and his focus isn't there.

 

And I don't disagree with that.  However, I think the show is handling it very, very badly.  They need to show Nick as a desperate man, not one who is just sort "eh" about everything.  Honestly, Nick IS dull right now...maybe all that time with the now annoyingly milquetoast Adalind is rubbing off on him, but right now he's just taking up space.

 

Weren't we promised a darker Nick?  Weren't heads supposed to roll? Because the show has failed miserably to deliver on those two things....

Edited December 6, 2015 by OtterMommy

[orza]

There is one huge reason Nick from Season One is different from the one we see now angst. When the show started Nick had a stable personal and professional life now he's broken and trying to hold everything together. He's making mistakes because he's operating on autopilot and his focus isn't there.

Exactly. Nick is unraveling while desperately trying to maintain some kind of normalcy so he doesn't completely lose it.

 

Nick is slowly being consumed by the violent, lawless Wesen world that he was pulled into. He was not groomed for it and did not embrace it the way Kelly did and now Theresa, apparently. From what we have seen, they both took the stance of kill first ask questions later. Beheading is a particularly gruesome way to kill people and they have both done that.

 

Grimms are people who choose to become serial killers. Nick is not yet a serial killer but he is moving in that direction. He has already moved away from the principles of law enforcement that he believed in and is engaging in vigilante justice. Right now Nick prefers a gun but how much longer until he starts beheading Wesen. I think it is a good portrayal of someone giving in to the evil and madness of the Wesen world and not at all boring.

[merylinkid]

Well maybe if we saw a little of that supposed angst and issues with moving away from law enforcement to vigilantism it might not be boring.   Have we seen one moment where he looks like he is barely holding it together since he moved in with Adalind?   As for the vigilantism -- he just doesn't arrest them.   It's rarely mentioned why or even shown.   Just "end of show."

 

This show is very good at telling us what is going on with Nick in social media and the like, not so good at actually showing it.

 

Remember Nick "won" against the Royals.   Has that even been mentioned ON THE SHOW?   Nope.   Just moved on the next Big Bad to fight.  

[ShadowFacts]

 

Grimms are people who choose to become serial killers. Nick is not yet a serial killer but he is moving in that direction. He has already moved away from the principles of law enforcement that he believed in and is engaging in vigilante justice. Right now Nick prefers a gun but how much longer until he starts beheading Wesen. I think it is a good portrayal of someone giving in to the evil and madness of the Wesen world and not at all boring.

 

Am I mis-remembering, or did he not behead two Verrat and send their heads to Europe in a box, early on?  He doesn't automatically execute wesen, but he does lots of what we would call police brutality.  He can swing both ways, as it were.  The only way it has worked so far is because Hank and now Wu are in the know, and Renard is the captain. 

[Darklazr]

Honestly, as much as I love Meisner (AND I DO!!!!!), I think he is making this perception of Nick even worse.  He's far more capable than Nick ever was and much more decisive.  Just think of that scene at the hospital.  Nick is running around like a chicken with his head caught off and Meisner just walks in the door and takes care of things.  If this were the first or second season, this might actually be a good thing--I'm still missing the first season Nick who had no idea of what he is doing--but we're in season 5 now and Nick is now supposed to be a pro at this...and he so, so clearly is not.

 

ETA:  We need a Meisner thread!  Anyone have a good idea for a name? Martin Meisner; He Brings the Lauffs or Martin Meisner:Showing them how it is done?  I know...both are pretty bad.  Suggestions?

 

Meisner knows very well what is going on with the people after Trubel and what the woman has been doing over the last several months, and Nik only just found the passports and money.  Wu should have been sent over to keep an eye on Trubel once Nik found out that she was still unconscious.

 

I still think Adalind's baby should have died and Nik should be living all alone at his paint store home.

[orza]

Am I mis-remembering, or did he not behead two Verrat and send their heads to Europe in a box, early on?  He doesn't automatically execute wesen, but he does lots of what we would call police brutality.  He can swing both ways, as it were.  The only way it has worked so far is because Hank and now Wu are in the know, and Renard is the captain. 

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. However, Nick has not been lopping off heads on the regular like Kelly did. That seemed to be part of her identity, judging by her email address.

 

Well maybe if we saw a little of that supposed angst and issues with moving away from law enforcement to vigilantism it might not be boring.   Have we seen one moment where he looks like he is barely holding it together since he moved in with Adalind?   As for the vigilantism -- he just doesn't arrest them.   It's rarely mentioned why or even shown.   Just "end of show."

 

This show is very good at telling us what is going on with Nick in social media and the like, not so good at actually showing it.

 

Remember Nick "won" against the Royals.   Has that even been mentioned ON THE SHOW?   Nope.   Just moved on the next Big Bad to fight.  

Nick started off as a cop with integrity who did things by the book. We have seen him move away from that as he is drawn deeper in the the Wesen world. He goes after Wesen with scary weapons, beats up people, tells Wu to do possibly illegal searches "out of uniform", hides stuff from his boss, etc.

 

Nick was a mature, well-adjusted adult before he became a Grimm. It would not make sense for him to regress to acting like an overwrought teenager. It would be more in character for a him to try to carry on with a stiff upper lip. I don't need to see grown-ass adults indulging in big displays of "angst" and going on and on about their "feels". I think it is plenty obvious that Nick is just barely coping.

[Prevailing Wind]

With all the folks saying how much Juliette needs to stay dead, my favorite new fantasy is the writers, blown about hither and thither by public opinion, have to go to Tulloch & tell her, "You know how you wanted to be badd!-asss! Juliette?  Well, it backfired. Nobody liked badd!-asss! Juliette, so we're letting you go."

[OtterMommy]

With all the folks saying how much Juliette needs to stay dead, my favorite new fantasy is the writers, blown about hither and thither by public opinion, have to go to Tulloch & tell her, "You know how you wanted to be badd!-asss! Juliette?  Well, it backfired. Nobody liked badd!-asss! Juliette, so we're letting you go."

 

Sigh, this won't happen...and I'll tell you why (I think....)

 

The creative team knows that the show is currently in deep shit and I think they've known this for several weeks now.  A refrain that I see--and have even said--is that this season is really bad compared to earlier seasons.  And, frankly, it is.  But I'm afraid that, when the creative teams hears this, they think that they need to go back to what the show was in seasons 1-3.  The fact that the ratings really support the idea that there is a specific point in time where they went wrong--and that is a point where the show made a very clear turn in narrative (mid season 4)--would support that idea.

 

Now they think, "How do we fix this?"  The answer--to them--would be to try to restore what they could of those earlier seasons.  That, of course, would include bring back Juliette--Juliette as she was in the first 3 seasons, of course--and put her in a happy relationship with Nick.  Hey, why not let them FINALLY get married?  

 

There are a number of problems to this.  Unless they want to pull a Dallas, they still have to deal with the fact that everything that happened from mid-season 4 on actually happened.  So...bring back happy Juliette...how happy is she going to be to find out that Nick has sold their house?  That Nick is living with the woman that she hated and who is the cause of everything that had happened to her?  That Nick gave this woman HER car?  That Nick is sleeping in her bed?  

 

And, what about everything that Juliette did while a hexenbiest.  There are arguments that she was intentionally evil, that she was acting out on long repressed anger, that she was not herself--all are valid theories.  However, none of them change the fact that she did the things she did.  

 

This show has shown us, especially since the beginning of this season, that the creative team is relying on tropes and cliches and, when it comes to something hard to tackle, they have no clue.  I'm not a Juliette hater, and I'm not a BItsie Tulloch hater.  That being said, I am very wary of the day they bring her back (and we all know they will).  I think it is going to backfire in their faces, just as putting Nick and Adalind together did.

 

Personally, I think the only way for this show to move forward is to actually do that.  Tie up loose ends, get rid of what isn't working (Nadalind) and then move into new territory.  When the time is right, bring on a new love interest for Nick--someone who actually fits into the story.  Maybe she would be a Grimm, maybe Wesen, maybe just your run of the mill human with a job along the lines of a Medical Examiner (since we haven't seen Harper in, what, 3 years, I think the job is open....)

Edited December 7, 2015 by OtterMommy

[kathyk24]

I don't know if it's fair to say Kelly and Trubel embraced being a Grimm. Kelly told Nick that she and Marie didn't enjoy hunting Wesen as children. She also gave up being a Grimm in order to have a family. Trubel killed in self defense she didn't know that she was a Grimm until she met Nick. I've always wanted Nick to have a Grimm mentor that he could confide in he's had to learn on the fly since he gained his powers. I think Nick functioned just fine as a regular cop since he didn't know there were Wesen.

[Darklazr]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. However, Nick has not been lopping off heads on the regular like Kelly did. That seemed to be part of her identity, judging by her email address.

 

Nick started off as a cop with integrity who did things by the book. We have seen him move away from that as he is drawn deeper in the the Wesen world. He goes after Wesen with scary weapons, beats up people, tells Wu to do possibly illegal searches "out of uniform", hides stuff from his boss, etc.

 

Nick was a mature, well-adjusted adult before he became a Grimm. It would not make sense for him to regress to acting like an overwrought teenager. It would be more in character for a him to try to carry on with a stiff upper lip. I don't need to see grown-ass adults indulging in big displays of "angst" and going on and on about their "feels". I think it is plenty obvious that Nick is just barely coping.

 

I must have missed it, but what is Kelly's email address?

With all the folks saying how much Juliette needs to stay dead, my favorite new fantasy is the writers, blown about hither and thither by public opinion, have to go to Tulloch & tell her, "You know how you wanted to be badd!-asss! Juliette?  Well, it backfired. Nobody liked badd!-asss! Juliette, so we're letting you go."

 

From your lips to God's ear!  I hope BT is gone and wish her well, because Juliette "sucked", hard!

[OtterMommy]

I must have missed it, but what is Kelly's email address?

'

I think it was bheadr@toomail.com

[Actionmage]

Unless they want to pull a Dallas, they still have to deal with the fact that everything that happened from mid-season 4 on actually happened.

 

Looking on IMDB, I would Dallas back to Episode 11 "Death Us Do Part". It's the episode just after saving Monroe and the case was the "haunted" house with the electric wesen.  Renard goes to visit Henrietta, as well.

 

I would have Renard bring Juliet, have Henrietta take a look, maybe 'mmm' and then look at them both and say, It'll wear off in a couple of days. She sucked up too much. Amateur."   Juliet, shaken from how creeptastic the experience was and how much more dangerous it could go, tells Nick that she needs a bit of space and leaves to see her folks or use a girlfriend's timeshare or just something away.  She loses her hexen powers after a day or two, just as the actual, intelligent, knowledgeable hexenbiest said. Because she understands how magic her kind uses works. ( I am certain that Adalind has forgotten how she opened her mother's spell book. She lucked into it opening previously.)

 

Then Adalind isn't pregnant because she's a savvy Hexen who uses seduction on the regular and practices birth control as a woman of this century. She planned for Diana, no matter what the plan originally was. Adalind is then shown being asked back to her old firm, but she is approached by this gent running for mayor... .

 

Juliet's absence is a reasonable response to the intense experiences she's just had. She doesn't need to die to not be an active cast member, even if there is a plan to "surprise" us with a return. Adalind would also seem like a reasonable woman who held the job of lawyer. It would tie her into Renard's story, which seems like it would come back and meet with Nick's. Adalind would also be living independently and being her naturally scheming self, which is how we tend to like Adalind. Or like to dislike her.

Remember Nick "won" against the Royals.   Has that even been mentioned ON THE SHOW?   Nope.

 

 

It hasn't been mentioned because how do you let folks know that a war's over when there hasn't been any acknowledgement that a war has been waged? The verbage her in the U.S. is very much "The War on [X]" since the 80s.  So actual mentions, more appropriately from Renard, about an actual war from the Royals would have been appreciated, at the least noticed.  Yet nothing for four years. Then it's something that's brought up in a "Please watch us this next season" post, like it's a known thing. That's what got me to almost drop the season and the show. The show these folks write is not the show we watch; something is getting lost from script to screen.

 

Well maybe if we saw a little of that supposed angst and issues with moving away from law enforcement to vigilantism it might not be boring.

 

 

I don't need to see grown-ass adults indulging in big displays of "angst" and going on and on about their "feels". I think it is plenty obvious that Nick is just barely coping.

 

 

This show used to be able to walk the middle-ground of showing how Nick was reacting to the ethical changes he was facing/making. I think angst is the wrong word, though. A more accurate word might be conflict. It's making a hard call, which Nick has had to do before and hasn't always liked his options. Still, I believe a great scene with Hank and Wu and Monroe, where Nick- over some food and beer, just goes over a couple of things that he feels he maybe should have handled differently. Not weepy, not drunk, just 'what if?'  Show Nick maturing or choosing how he Grimms going forward that way.

 

Also having Nick's grief come out sideways would also be how Nick might express his losses.  Talking about how you miss your mom, after barely getting her back?  That has to be a little rough, just not buckets of tears rough. How you can't properly mourn your losses because there is no way to publically acknowledge them?  That is not rough, that's horrible. The writing is inconsistent. Nick is SuperGrimmCop. He's barely alone due to moving Adalind and Baby Schade into the Fortress of Gray. He's rarely shown alone with just himself. What we get is just a half second and the man is barely keeping himself standing.  (I think makeup has Nick look like he's got very tired eyes. At least I hope it's make-up. )  Nick hasn't been given time to decompress on-screen, probably due to the thought that it would be boring or whiny or teary. It wouldn't have to be. Nick asks Monroe to toss watermelons at him again. We see flashbacks to things that still anger Nick as he gets more angry and goes zombie. Monroe is barely able to talk him down ( and quietly calls Hank later about the episode.) Something that lets us know that yeah, Nick's not doing well, but here's what he's trying to do to get a handle on it.

 

But no one would appreciate understanding where Our Hero's head is at, right? We're all looking forward to the next vaguely twisty Big Bad, right?

[ShadowFacts]

 

Quote

    Unless they want to pull a Dallas, they still have to deal with the fact that everything that happened from mid-season 4 on actually happened.

    

Looking on IMDB, I would Dallas back to Episode 11 "Death Us Do Part". It's the episode just after saving Monroe and the case was the "haunted" house with the electric wesen.  Renard goes to visit Henrietta, as well.

I would have Renard bring Juliet, have Henrietta take a look, maybe 'mmm' and then look at them both and say, It'll wear off in a couple of days. She sucked up too much. Amateur."   Juliet, shaken from how creeptastic the experience was and how much more dangerous it could go, tells Nick that she needs a bit of space and leaves to see her folks or use a girlfriend's timeshare or just something away.  She loses her hexen powers after a day or two, just as the actual, intelligent, knowledgeable hexenbiest said. Because she understands how magic her kind uses works. ( I am certain that Adalind has forgotten how she opened her mother's spell book. She lucked into it opening previously.)

Then Adalind isn't pregnant because she's a savvy Hexen who uses seduction on the regular and practices birth control as a woman of this century. She planned for Diana, no matter what the plan originally was. Adalind is then shown being asked back to her old firm, but she is approached by this gent running for mayor... .

Juliet's absence is a reasonable response to the intense experiences she's just had. She doesn't need to die to not be an active cast member, even if there is a plan to "surprise" us with a return. Adalind would also seem like a reasonable woman who held the job of lawyer. It would tie her into Renard's story, which seems like it would come back and meet with Nick's. Adalind would also be living independently and being her naturally scheming self, which is how we tend to like Adalind. Or like to dislike her.

 

You have just been promoted to head writer, Actionmage.  That is just the way it should have gone.  Let me buy you a drink.  I also very much agree they can show Nick's grief and anger/depression without being dismal or exaggerated, and they should.  A lot can be conveyed in just bits of dialogue. 

[OtterMommy]

This show is very good at telling us what is going on with Nick in social media and the like, not so good at actually showing it.

 

^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Seriously, if they put half the effort into actually writing this show as they do into tweeting and facebooking about it, this season would be FAR better.  I mean, how many people of their 3.5 million-ish viewers actually follow on actively twitter/facebook (by that, I mean they don't just follow, but also comment)?  From what I've seen, a generous estimate would be at most 300.  So, you know 0.008571%.  And those 300 people, if they care enough to actually interact on Social Media, are pretty much with the show no matter what.  In order to reach the other 3,499,700 viewers, they need to actually put out a quality product.

Edited December 7, 2015 by OtterMommy

[Darklazr]

If we're going to pull a Dallas, Adalind and her baby died in Vienna.  No muss.  No Fuss.  

 

Juliette decided she could not deal with the wesen drama and Nik's life as a Grimm, so they took the adult route and moved on. No muss.  No Fuss.

[OtterMommy]

I just have to say that it warms the cockles of my heart that "Dallas" has now become not only a turn for a plot device, but also a verb.  That was my favorite show as a child (which, really, should tell you quite a bit about the kind of person I am) and I love to see that it is being remembered not only for creating one of the most iconic characters in television history but also for creating that magical secret trap door that can be used to correct any plot if a show is just willing to pull back the shower curtain.

 

Now, if I were to Dallas this show, I'd go back to the beginning of season 2....and either Juliette doesn't come out of the coma and we can replay the awesome cases of the week from that season without cutting over to the obsession/amesia plot...or she comes out of it, Nick comes clean with her, and they have a normal life without all the extra drama.

[Prevailing Wind]

You know what I never understood about Pam's dream?  Knot's Landing.  Val & Gary have twins & name one of 'em after their dead Uncle Bobby.  After Pam woke up, did the twins still exist?  Was one of 'em still named after their living Uncle Bobby?

 

Yeah, to Dallas Grimm, I, too, say we'd need to go back to Juliette's coma.  Or back to the first episode, where Aunt Marie has a fevered dream and thinks Claire Coffee, playing Juliette, looks like Tulloch, who was actually a "mean girl" in Marie's past. (you know how dreams never make sense...)  Hell, at this point, I'd accept the whole show, all seasons, is a fevered dream of Aunt Marie's.

[OtterMommy]

You know what I never understood about Pam's dream?  Knot's Landing.  Val & Gary have twins & name one of 'em after their dead Uncle Bobby.  After Pam woke up, did the twins still exist?  Was one of 'em still named after their living Uncle Bobby?

 

Yeah, to Dallas Grimm, I, too, say we'd need to go back to Juliette's coma.  Or back to the first episode, where Aunt Marie has a fevered dream and thinks Claire Coffee, playing Juliette, looks like Tulloch, who was actually a "mean girl" in Marie's past. (you know how dreams never make sense...)  Hell, at this point, I'd accept the whole show, all seasons, is a fevered dream of Aunt Marie's.

 

Oh, if only Kate Burton weren't tied up in Shondaland....

 

But, yeah....two of the biggest problems of this show started in episode 1.  First we had the Claire Coffee woge...which, by what we know of how wesen (and such) operate, didn't even make sense--they would never just woge walking down the street!  Then we had the poorly defined girlfriend and the manufactured relationship angst produced when Marie told Nick to leave Juliette.

 

Maybe Aunt Marie showed up at Nick's house, realized he wasn't home from work yet, and decided to take a nap until he arrived...and she's just now waking up.....

[Matt K]

You know what I never understood about Pam's dream?  Knot's Landing.  Val & Gary have twins & name one of 'em after their dead Uncle Bobby.  After Pam woke up, did the twins still exist?  Was one of 'em still named after their living Uncle Bobby?

Out of curiosity, I looked it up and it turns out that in theory Knot's Landing takes place in a continuity where Bobby did die the subsequent seasons thus diverge.  That said, apparently Knot's just stopped crossing over with Dallas at that point and didn't reference Bobby's death anymore.  

 

To stay on topic, I check in because I gave up on the show last season.  Nick and Adalene getting together is just too much for me after the weak writing of last season.  I agree that part of the problem is that the show doesn't seem to plan ahead.    What's the point of Henrietta if she just get killed off for no reason.  What was the purpose of Juliette going bad, etc.  It's somewhat okay if you're Law and Order where episodes are essentially self contained.  But for Grimm you at least have to plan out where you're going with some of this stuff.  Otherwise we end up with a haphazard conclusion because suddenly they need to end things.  

 

If they were to Dallas things (which I'm not sure would be enough for me to come back).  Then I think it would be best to go back to right before Monroe and Rosalie's wedding.  Maybe as some sort of hallucination/recognition.  Either as a result of Nick thinking about marrying Juliette (which he now does).  Or perhaps a warning of Adeline's deception.  Maybe we get the shower scene (Nick in the shower maybe) and Adaline as Juliette appears and he immediately figures it out maybe kills her.  It's best to not completely reboot the show but the last two seasons really didn't have much forward progress for the characters that rebooting to this point would negate.   

[neuromom]

Oh my gosh! You guys are all killing me! I come to check on this board and find talk about "Dallas". Seriously, my 14 year old just commented several days ago - "I bet that the series ending episode will show that this is all a dream of Nick's. The ENTIRE SERIES!" And my kid knows nothing about Dallas. And of course I said "no no no- that would mean our beloved Monroe and Rosalee never really existed"!

But then you all seem to be on the same wavelength as me teenager, so now I'm wondering if this entire scenario is truly possible?

[Darklazr]

I want Juliette gone permanently from this show, so my "Dallas" version is back to when she first learned the truth about Nick's life as a Grimm and they agree to move on.  No muss.  No fuss.  Nick moves to a more secure location and we have the Wesen of the week story, until the show eventually casts several potential actresses who can actually "act" and have chemistry with Nick/DG.  CC can act, so I would keep the actor that played Eric and let those two plot and scheme against the folks in Portland with never a baby in sight! Eric should have been sterile, Viktor gay, and Sean the royal bastard becomes legitimate due to the King needing a male heir to take over the throne one day.

[Darklazr]

Yes. Okay, there's a HUGE difference between showing a guy just being incompetent and not making it clear to the audience it's due to him not functioning properly, and having Nick just walk around all, "WHY ME??? WHYYYYYYYYYY MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE????? WAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!"

 

Someone could say, "I notice you've been off your game."

 

Nick: "Yeah, I know. I'm making mistakes left and right. I can't seem to concentrate."

 

There. Now the audience knows the people in the show are aware Nick is off-balance.

 

Until that time, it's just that Nick looks incompetent next to Meisner.

 

The man is a cop and a Grimm. We could also have a scene where someone mentions he's not a walking zombie, and Nick mentions he has work to do, and he doesn't have time to grieve. Maybe later.

 

This show needs to watch Sleepy Hollow for how it's done. He acknowledged the horrible redheaded actress's passing and moved on. This way we knew it was there, but he had the more pressing problem of saving the world.

 

Nick should have collapsed upon the bedroom chair in episode #1 to show his grief that his mother and Juliette were both dead, before moving on to the drama with Trubel being taken by Chavez.  It could have been a moment of silence as tears poured down Nick's face and we see him stand up slowly because he can hear Hank coming in the front door.

[Actionmage]

The man is a cop and a Grimm. We could also have a scene where someone mentions he's not a walking zombie, and... .

 

But, he is! *g* He just controls it a bit better and doesn't need brains.

 

 

Nick should have collapsed upon the bedroom chair in episode #1 to show his grief

 

What we did get in the season premiere was Nick, literally putting himself in a corner ( behind the door to the bedroom) and him looking over the room. Nick also started into the bath and looked around the room. During all this, Nick looked lost and trying to process what had happened and how much was real. (He did have a vivid dream in the premiere, too.)  

 

I didn't need a collapsing Nick with lots of crying, though Nick is totally entitled to the tears if he feels the need.  It was the premiere, he just had this fresh layer of hell thrown on him and he was trying to process and figure out what to do next and who to call about what. If the writers plan on giving Nick a big, blow-out grief scene? I think it will be soon. If not this week, then soon after the break, I hope. The man has barely had a chance to just sit with himself, so I am curious about how Nick breaks. I don't think he would be completely broken, but damn near it. Maybe that's how he opens the big yellow door? *g* Grief "therapy"?

[ShadowFacts]

This really bothers me about the writers having him just skipping over any type of demonstration of grief.  My mother died 7 years ago and I still cry.  My father definitely cried.  Men aren't supposed to, or not very much, in our culture and that's really sad to me.  And I know Nick didn't spend significant time with her since he was 12 years old, but that makes it even more poignant to me -- that he thought she was dead all those years and then she was alive.  The potential.  I won't even get into Juliette.  It is a writing failure to have him playing house and running off to work and never talking to someone or crying or self-medicating, or something, anything.  Sorry, I'm not letting it go until it is addressed.

[OtterMommy]

This really bothers me about the writers having him just skipping over any type of demonstration of grief.  My mother died 7 years ago and I still cry.  My father definitely cried.  Men aren't supposed to, or not very much, in our culture and that's really sad to me.  And I know Nick didn't spend significant time with her since he was 12 years old, but that makes it even more poignant to me -- that he thought she was dead all those years and then she was alive.  The potential.  I won't even get into Juliette.  It is a writing failure to have him playing house and running off to work and never talking to someone or crying or self-medicating, or something, anything.  Sorry, I'm not letting it go until it is addressed.

 

You know...think back to the first two episodes of this series.  It wasn't perfect, but we saw Nick deal with his aunt's imminent death while trying to process his new life and then, when she died, he did actually mourn.  

 

Now, well, you know...whatever....

[OtterMommy]

I think they made a mistake by placing the Royals in Austria.  This brings up too many real-world questions.  It would have been better had they been the Royal Family of Freedonia* or the Grand Duchy of Fenwick** or Nerdo-Crumbezia***.  We would have easily accepted that and not tried to shoe-horn them into the real world.  Personally, I would love to think that Renard's grandpa is Rufus T. Firefly.

 

This is actually a good point.  My guess is that, since they set (and film) the show in a "real" city, they had to keep everything in real locales.  That, of course, is a load of crap and there is a plethora of examples to prove that.  Here's one: The Avengers--the first movie was set in New York.  Forget Gotham or Metropolis--this was NEW YORK CITY!  The second movie?  A completely fictional location. And, guess what, NO ONE CARES that they did that.  Also, no one is caring about the government in some real Eastern European country and how they could let this happen...yada yada yada.

 

I will admit that I haven't (or at least I don't think I have) watched any of Carpenter/Kouf/Greenwalt's other shows, but if they were like this, I have no clue how they could have landed a network show.  It's just lazy, sloppy work.

[OtterMommy]

From the spoiler thread:

 

Is it bad that I want them to kiss and the show to implode? :D As someone who has quit watching what feels like ages ago, I'm filled with malicious glee that it is indeed meeting the worst expectations, and every episode just brings it closer to cancellation, with the show runners riding the dead horse into the sunset. (Yeah, I'm an awful person.)

 

 

As much as I loved this show in the past and would actually like to see it improve and thrive, I have to admit I'm in kind of the same place...

 

This is not a show that is dying of natural causes.  It is not a show that has just run its course and now needs to bow out gracefully,  This is a show that is being killed by a creative team that is so drunk on its own "power" that it is completely incapable of seeing the level of crap they are putting out.

 

You know, this season could have been good.  The idea of a Wesen uprising is not a bad one.  Seeing Nick "go dark" and go for vengeance actually would be a good thing.  But that is not what is happening--well, I guess the Wesen uprising is happening, but they've coated everything in such a layer of excrement at this point that I just can't make myself care.

 

So, instead of a season of Nick going all-Grimm and fighting the uprising, we have:

1. A baby that NEVER SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED.
2. A "romance" that is actually repelling viewers.  Yes, there are the FanFic writers and emoticon lovers who are all over this, but this show's audience really isn't as "young" as the say it is.  There are a lot of people who watch this because its Friday night, the dishes are done, and Dateline comes on next.  These people probably don't care enough to facebook or tweet or visit forums about this show.  And, based on the people I know who fall into the "these people" category, they are pretty black and white.  In other words, Juliette is "good" and Adalind is "bad" and don't mess with that.  There is a reason why the downward ratings spiral started in the middle of last season.  
3. A request--more like an order--from the creative team, telling us to completely forget the Royals.  Not that I really cared about the Royals, but I do care when a show tells me that I need to just forget what they've done for 2-3 seasons because...reasons.
4. A lobotomized "hero"
5. Quirky and fan-pleasing supporting characters being pretty much shoved into the background
6. More questions that never seem to be answered
7. Plot holes that could suck in an entire universe.

 

All I can think is that NBC has given up on Grimm and they're just letting Carpenter, Kouf, and Greenwalt ride this out until the end of the season, only because they don't have any other show (except maybe extending Dateline to 2 hours) to fill its place.

 

Frankly, there is a part of me that wants to see it go down in flames so that it will be a big black mark on the resumes of Carpenter, Kouf, and Greenwalt.  

 

ETA: Back to #2....never underestimate "these people."  They are the ones who have kept shows like Law and Order, CSI, Jag, and NCIS going...and going....and going....

Edited December 12, 2015 by OtterMommy

[HunterHunted]

Hey there. Don't knock Law and Order. It's formulaic, but a treat it you appreciate the theme and variations aspect of the show. It also had some fantastic performances from Broadway greats. Plus Jerry Orbach is a national treasure.

[OtterMommy]

Hey there. Don't knock Law and Order. It's formulaic, but a treat it you appreciate the theme and variations aspect of the show. It also had some fantastic performances from Broadway greats. Plus Jerry Orbach is a national treasure.

 

I'm not knocking it at all.  I'm just saying that there is a demographic, which is probably bigger in the Grimm audience than the creative team acknowledges, that expects certain things from show.  And this demographic is actually quite powerful...they are very loyal viewers and they will keep shows going (and, judging by my parents, they can never find the remote control so they actually sit through all the commercials).

[Prevailing Wind]

I watch it in real time, so I watch all the commercials, too.

 

And, yes, indeedy about Orbach.  I miss him so.  I'd had a crush on him since 1963, when I got the Original Cast album of "The Fantasticks."

[Snarkette]

I don't know what "plot" features I hated most about this ep. I was going to say "the return" and then I remember Adalind giggling and being the coy new girlfriend and the vomit just rose.

[ShadowFacts]

I don't know what "plot" features I hated most about this ep. I was going to say "the return" and then I remember Adalind giggling and being the coy new girlfriend and the vomit just rose.

 

That was a gagger.  I also don't like Trubel being shady and not forthcoming with Nick.  There's no excuse for that, she has previously been loyal and full of gratitude for his help and she needs to fill him in completely on what's happening and not half-way confiding in freaking Adalind.

 

Another kind of crappy thing is the sudden exposition of wesen as the scum of the earth.  Prior to this it has been mentioned that they are behind a lot of crime, when Wu asked Renard.  But now suddenly Monroe (was it?) drops a dime on everyone about how wesen are behind all kinds of riots.  Why didn't he tell that to Nick a long time ago?

[catrox14]

I'm tired of  Nick being stupid or impotent for the sake of plot. He's the main character but I feel like the show is only tangentially about HIM now. Yes he has a baby with Adalind but that's really more about Adalind than Nick IMO. Juliette's arc became more about Juliette than Nick.  I feel like the only time Nick is important now is when they need him to see a wesen and to be Hank's partner or be used and manipulated by Adalind.  Its seems more and more that Nick is there to service the stories of everyone else, not the other way around. Maybe this is on purpose to build more of an ensemble piece and keep the show going if DG or SWM decide to leave the show. 

 

It's just kind of sad now.

[OtterMommy]

So, I get the feeling that Carpenter, Greenwalt, and Kouf are probably really nice guys (despite all the well-earned crap I throw their way)....and that is the problem.  I think that they genuinely like Bitsie Tulloch--and Claire Coffee, frankly.  This doesn't surprise me. I've heard that both women are genuinely nice people.

 

But, for the love of story telling, KILL YOUR DARLINGS!  I know it is painful, but ask ANY writer--it has to be done.  (Wait, don't ask J.K. Rowling because she has admitted that she wasn't able to do it on occasion)  Juliette and Adalind really have nothing to do with Bitsie Tulloch and Claire Coffee.  You can like the actresses to the moon and back, but if the character has nowhere to go, you have to respect that and end the character in some way (not necessarily death....)  If it really is genuine admiration for the actresses, either for their talent or for the kind of person they are, pitch a new show for them, but please keep the ability to differentiate between the actor and role....

[OtterMommy]

Also, if a SORAS'd teen Diana shows up, ready and able to use her powers, then go for it show. Just don't try to sexualize a teenager, okay? Teens being sexualized is overdone on plenty of other shows, and this show already has a problem with writing females not named Rosalee well.

 

Actually, I can't say they've even been that great with Rosalee, especially this season.

 

They do well when Rosalee has something concrete to do--dispense knowledge, beat up people, make potions.  But, when they try to show her as an actual woman..she falls flat.  What woman, after spending the day moaning over her grief over the death of her best friend, would then tell the BF's boyfriend that he has to man up and "be" there for the woman who not only raped him but who was ultimately responsible at least for starting the path that sent the friend to her death?  I mean, really?

 

They've never succeeded in making Rosalee "girly," which is fine.  Women don't need to be girly and, frankly, girly wouldn't work well paired with Monroe's character.  But they've also never really succeeded in making her feminine either.  Feminine isn't about being girly or sexy or anything like that.  It's about coming from the experience of being female.  Frankly, when Rosalee works, a male character really could have filled the same role.

[Actionmage]

Juliette's arc became more about Juliette than Nick

 

catrox, I get your point, but I have to say that I was glad that Juliet's arc was about Juliet because I have seen a female lead not be the point of her own story on at least one other show.  I'd rather the women be the point of their story than not, but ITA and CNAM that Nick is in the title of the show, but has taken a backseat in his own story. For instance, why would Adalind want to stay with any of the gang? They have all been targeted by hate groups, so staying with Nick wouldn't help, nor would staying with Sean.  Even a "I don't know what I'm going to do, but you can't protect me"-kind of scene would have left it open for Adalind to return, with or without the baby and the focus on Nick and his devastation would have taken the first couple of episodes. Where the group tries to comfort him, not tell Nick how he needs to treat Adalind.

 

As for Teresa and her 'since you last saw me' exposition dump? It sure sounds like Hadrian's Wall has the superpower of Rich. They buy a fully kitted-out motorcycle with after-factory armaments that is over $30k. She is sent literally all around the globe to fight or whatever. Teresa has multiple sets of papers. She has a good deal of walking around money. Teresa has very good body armor, in that she isn't too weighed down by it and it doesn't look like she's "armored" if you weren't aware of body armor.  Teresa is far from the only agent Hadrian's Wall has, yet they are global in their mission.

 

It is easier to not have to worry about how characters can get all the cool gadgets and costumes and stuff if there isn't a money problem. (See most heroes from The Golden Age- lots were millionaires.) Yet, this smells like it is set up like cells, so that Bad Guys can't stop the Good Guys from doing Good. Bad Guys can take out a cell, like our heroes were going to stop the vandalizing cell, but they won't wreck the overall plan.   

 

With the implication of the mayoral candidate and his manager potentially having something to do with either the Uprising ( since they specifically had them with articles on Sean) or Hadrian's Wall ( they could be feeling Renard out on where Renard would land on the issue), both sides seem to have tons of disposable cash to throw at each other. The institution where the wesen "lost boys" went is run by an Uprising adherent, and no doubt has a chunk of his staff- if not all- adherents too.

 

I could be interested in a wesen  Cold War, if I thought that both sides were presented smartly and with reasonable pockets of extremists on both sides. But I don't trust the writers.  I was drawn in last night, until they had to try to be clever about Juliet, but it was a gripping episode. I don't trust the writers to get past the ' wouldn't it be cool if...'  stage. This has been a problem since S1, though. The Melifleurs. The assassin priest of Renard's. The underground gladiator fights. The keys and the royals. Yeah, they are graciously going to give the keys some kind of story, post-break. I wish I could get excited. I want to be excited. I just have a feeling that the story is going to feed into this war-thing. I would be happy to be wrong. It just feels like the keys are a checkbox for the show to explain or deal with at this point. "Dad got his chupacabra story, we explained what wesen see in Nick's eyes, we showed  Kelly and Diana again, I guess we should see what else... wha-?! We're almost to Episode 100? ::checks list:: We haven't explained the keys yet! "

 

eta:

I think I just realized what my particular unhappiness with the show is:  It is becoming just another dark, barely lit  angst-fest. Just with people in "animal masks".  If it had stayed the mix of procedural, fairy tale and world-building, I could deal with the "war" better.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Actionmage

[Darklazr]

So, I get the feeling that Carpenter, Greenwalt, and Kouf are probably really nice guys (despite all the well-earned crap I throw their way)....and that is the problem.  I think that they genuinely like Bitsie Tulloch--and Claire Coffee, frankly.  This doesn't surprise me. I've heard that both women are genuinely nice people.

 

But, for the love of story telling, KILL YOUR DARLINGS!  I know it is painful, but ask ANY writer--it has to be done.  (Wait, don't ask J.K. Rowling because she has admitted that she wasn't able to do it on occasion)  Juliette and Adalind really have nothing to do with Bitsie Tulloch and Claire Coffee.  You can like the actresses to the moon and back, but if the character has nowhere to go, you have to respect that and end the character in some way (not necessarily death....)  If it really is genuine admiration for the actresses, either for their talent or for the kind of person they are, pitch a new show for them, but please keep the ability to differentiate between the actor and role....

 

I am going to shoot your post in the head and have its baby!  This post states what is so wrong with Grimm.  Show business is a business and it is time for whatshername and Adalind to leave the show and never come back.  Whatshername being dead was the start and all they needed to do was find Adalind's other brat and ship her off the show.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Darklazr

[tpel]

I want to go out on a limb and suggest that Nick is more of a problem for this show than Juliette and Adalind are -- fully acknowledging that the latter two have had some deeply problematic story-lines. But they are secondary characters; he is the lead. And lately he is leading badly.

 

My first impression of Nick was that the character was bland and the actor was only so-so. But I soon found that, while Nick alone might not be riveting, he played very well off other characters -- like Monroe -- and DG grew into the role quickly. I still wouldn't rank him among the best actors on the show, but by the end of the first season, I thought he was pretty good. And Nick served two important roles admirably: he was the glue that held a disparate cast of characters together, and he was the eyes through which the audience learned about the Grimm-and-wesen world. He was also pleasantly angst-free, reacting to stresses without being broody or morose.

 

Fast-forward a few years and those awesome other characters that Nick brought together have become marginalized. Monroe, for example, is still around, but he has less of interest to do. More of the weight of the story-telling is on Nick alone, yet the writers frequently undermine his competence -- from taking eons to realize that his girlfriend's aberrant behavior post-mysterious-coma just might be the result of a spell, to leaving his badly-injured protege unguarded at the hospital. Worse, it's becoming harder to figure out what his emotional state or motivations are. There were the moments that Actionmage referenced from the season premiere where it really felt like Nick was going through something. And when it is the point of the scene, such as in these instances, the acting and directing really comes through. But then it seems like the show forgets about such things. So, we have Nick frantic about Trubel's apparent abduction one week . . . and then he's not. He's appalled by what Adalind did to him . . . and then he seems kind of OK with it. These are possible character arcs, but I feel like we are missing the steps in between. Without them, I feel disconnected from the character who is supposed to hold the show together -- I can't see the world through his eyes, because I don't know what the heck he is thinking.

 

Oddly, it reminds me of a moment a couple of seasons back. I don't remember the episode, but there had recently been some kind of conflict between Nick and Renard, or Nick had recently found out something devious that Renard had done, or something like that. Then they had to work together at the precinct. On Renard's end, there were subtle indicators that the situation was awkward --little stuff, like breaking eye contact early-- but from Nick there was nothing. My best guess is that the directing for the show is very straight-forward: if an emotional note isn't key to the scene, it may be overlooked. That can work OK when the emphasis of the show is on action-adventure monster-of-the-week stuff. But if they want us to traverse significant emotional arcs with these characters, without devoting reams of dialogue to them, they're going to need to give us more of the subtle stuff.

Edited December 13, 2015 by tpel

[Actionmage]

My best guess is that the directing for the show is very straight-forward: if an emotional note isn't key to the scene, it may be overlooked. That can work OK when the emphasis of the show is on action-adventure monster-of-the-week stuff. But if they want us to traverse significant emotional arcs with these characters, without devoting reams of dialogue to them, they're going to need to give us more of the subtle stuff.

 

^^^^This!  tpel, one of the better, succinct explanations for this half season.  This cast does very well with the facial reactions and acting, imo. Sometimes a look  does indeed tell volumes.

 

It does feel like TPTB felt the need to wrap-up from the cliff-hanger and set the stage for the coming war. Unfortunately, they aren't  having characters act reasonably realistically ( sorry if that is a grammar boo-boo).   As stated by others, Nick is almost insane with grief and worry over his mom, Juliet and Teresa. Trauma that happened in a 36-48 hour window. The season picked up where the last one left off. Nick, understandably, acts unwisely at the FBI offices at Chavez. Then he tails Chavez!

 

Where was the detail concerned about the obviously unhinged local cop, making sure he's just talking big and not an actual threat? Especially since the year previous, a fellow Fed was killed at this cop's house.  We don't have anyone but Monroe follow him, though. Yet, as per the latest episode, Nick's been surveilled and all is known about him?  It's all cheap, narrative corner-cutting in my opinion. So they don't have to show us how a Grimm, his wesen friends and a sort of hexenbiest can't tell that they are under surveillance. Which is extra shady as they have Monroe point out specifically that he smelled Nick's Grimm-ness first. That fact leads to thinking: why couldn't Monroe or other wesen he hangs with- like ultra-nervous Bud- wouldn't be able to tell someone else was watching?

 

There are less scenes of the group working, cohesively or uneasily, than there have been. My fear is that they are being sacrificed to tell us this big ol' war story. I'd rather watch the modern takes on fairy tales, but TPTB are somehow convinced that they don't have lots to draw from. I'd rather see more bauerschwein/ blutbad relations. A good skellengank(sp?) trying to make a go without relying on their family. A brave sheep person who ends up befriending Bud and the group.  The fairy tales that aren't being mined.

[Darklazr]

Juliette's body should have been left at Nick's house and he still could have gone ballistic over Trubel, his Mom's head and crossbow being gone.  Nick's confrontation with Chavez could have still taken place, but we see Juliette's funeral one week later and that closes the chapter on his previous love life.  

 

Chavez was surprised that Nik was a Grimm, so the old surveillance was not up to uptospeed or was it the HW folks keeping tabs on Nick?

[ShadowFacts]

 

Chavez was surprised that Nik was a Grimm, so the old surveillance was not up to uptospeed or was it the HW folks keeping tabs on Nick?

 

 

But wasn't Chavez part of HW?  I really do not understand why Nick's identity isn't very common knowledge amongst all wesen in the area.  It would have to be -- word would spread like wildfire.  I also think Renard should be absolutely on top of what's going on in the wesen world, inasmuch as he's zauerbiest, royal and in the police hierarchy.  If that isn't well-connected, I don't know what is.   He should know all about HW and have heard about the various wesen problems around the world that Teresa was working on.  Who the hell is he on the phone with all the time? 

[tpel]

Yeah, I was puzzled that Nick and company explicitly decided not to consult with Renard about the wesen revolutionary group, after they saw the claw-like symbol. I totally get why they would have reservations about trusting Renard, but whether or not these reservations come up seems to depend on plot convenience. I mean, this does seem to be the sort of international political thing that's right up his alley. I can buy that he doesn't happen to know about it, maybe, but it is harder to buy that the other characters wouldn't consider him to be the most likely contact of theirs to know about it.

[Darklazr]

Nick's undies were in a twist because Renard blew him off about Truble, his mother's head, whatshername and his missing crossbow.   Renard is probably like, "Dude, I bedded your ex and she's not all that in the sack!  Just let it go!"

 

Renard is also dealing with his own sh*t in killing three people, Diana the wonder kid is missing,  and whatever else is going on at the precinct.  

 

On a serious note...LOL.  Nick said to hold off on telling Renard after he showed them the old factory with the claw mark until they had more proof as to what is really going on.  Also, Nick is obviously living with Renard's ex and their son, while Diana is missing.

But wasn't Chavez part of HW?  I really do not understand why Nick's identity isn't very common knowledge amongst all wesen in the area.  It would have to be -- word would spread like wildfire.  I also think Renard should be absolutely on top of what's going on in the wesen world, inasmuch as he's zauerbiest, royal and in the police hierarchy.  If that isn't well-connected, I don't know what is.   He should know all about HW and have heard about the various wesen problems around the world that Teresa was working on.  Who the hell is he on the phone with all the time? 

 

I know!  Which means there was a rewrite or someone on the show that handles continuity messed up, because we saw Chavez tell the person on the phone that she was positive Nick was a Grimm.  Otherwise, why not take Nick when they grabbed Truble?

 

Chavez and her team could have made it look like Nick took off on his own and everyone would have thought he was grieving his mother and whatshername.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Darklazr

[Actionmage]

The thing that irks me is that, per Teresa, that Hadrian's Wall is such a double--uber-secret part of the government that most folks barely have an idea of Hadrian's Wall's existence. That means that taxpayers are footing the bill for $30k + motorcycles and globe-spanning trips and all other spy stuff with the added wtfery of apparently no oversight or answering to the President or anything! 

 

This wesen or wesen/ human organization is taking money without any okay to fight a supposed war. Combatants, such as Teresa and Meisner, are sent around the world to harm others would be considered an act of war if the right people got angry enough. I know Hadrian's Wall is supposed to be a mix of wesen, Grimm and humans, but if Chavez had survived and went on a mission- even to an American ally country- wouldn't her being a Federal agent make for horrible PR in the best case scenario and an international incident in the worst?

 

With the wesen not having a geopolitical nation to call their own, it's veering a bit close to Real World stuff. Seeing as how the writers could barely be interested in the show's  background and mining that, how can they be trusted with a sensitive subject like the current storyline seems to be heading?

 

I am tantalized by a group of wesen who don't want to play masquerade any more. To see how our wesen friends react to that would be amazing and intriguing. A group that just wants to out prominent wesen who are in high-profile jobs for the lolz or who think those wesen aren't doing enough to help fellow wesen? Again, I'm in. That there is a secret group that has declared war on wesen and they are trying to recruit Grimms as well as "right-thinking" wesen/ "the right kind of" wesen? I could watch that.

 

But to bring in the actual government and have be believe that after all the government scrutiny after $1K toilet seats and haircuts, that no one would notice the cash being funneled to some teensy, not-really-looked-at group? Even if they were folded in as some sub-organization of some division of whatever. (Not saying that doesn't go on in some form in the real world. I just don't believe it would escape scrutiny or be ignored.)

 

The disappearance of Chavez is going to be a problem, one would think, for Nick and Teresa. (Though it may not be; see: the Keys from S1-5A.)

*Nick was seen loudly arguing and threatening Agent Chavez in her office, in front of reliable witnesses/co-workers. Enough that a couple entered Chavez's office to ask if she would appreciate some help.

*If the FBI gets wind of Teresa being in town, then she would be a person of interest in Agent Chavez's disappearance. Teresa was last on the FBI's radar when she killed another local agent, though it was deemed self-defense.  One time is clear self-defense, but a second case of an agent potentially having something to do with Teresa would be harder to just write-off, as Nick's scene specifically had mentions of Teresa. So Teresa is linked to two local agents.

*Teresa's criminal history would also be a strike against Teresa getting a fair shake, depending on the particular wesen she ended up killing before meeting Nick.

*Nick is linked to the two agents from three or so years back that were killed in a grisly manner. Nick was snotty ( not entirely without reason) to the Bureau then, and probably not making any new, helpful friends for the future. This will come back and hurt Nick's lobbying for leniency for Teresa because this would be the third time Nick is linked to strange doings around FBI agents.

 

I don't want to watch Nick-goes-to-court-or-does-time, neither do I want to see that for Teresa. Yet, the weird way Nick has been written wrt the FBI should be paid off, imo.  It may have partly been so, what with the agents who got killed on escort duty. (Which, come to think of it, could be a fourth strike. Even though Nick was warning the agents about their charge, they laughed him off due to how he acted with Chavez.  So, depending on how you look at it Nick has four to six agents to answer for, I'm surmising, as far as the FBI goes.)

[ShadowFacts]

 

I am tantalized by a group of wesen who don't want to play masquerade any more. To see how our wesen friends react to that would be amazing and intriguing. A group that just wants to out prominent wesen who are in high-profile jobs for the lolz or who think those wesen aren't doing enough to help fellow wesen? Again, I'm in. That there is a secret group that has declared war on wesen and they are trying to recruit Grimms as well as "right-thinking" wesen/ "the right kind of" wesen? I could watch that.

 

I am also intrigued by this storyline.  It could be very interesting, if they don't muck it up with dead ends and unnecessary vagueness. 

 

 

But to bring in the actual government and have be believe that after all the government scrutiny after $1K toilet seats and haircuts, that no one would notice the cash being funneled to some teensy, not-really-looked-at group? Even if they were folded in as some sub-organization of some division of whatever. (Not saying that doesn't go on in some form in the real world. I just don't believe it would escape scrutiny or be ignored.)

 

I disagree somewhat, maybe because I'm too cynical.  I think this kind of quasi-governmental undertaking (or just rogue behavior within the CIA, FBI, etc.) probably goes on all the time, without accountability or scrutiny, in the real world.  In the context of the story, tons of crazy s**t has been covered up by Nick and Hank and Renard, and not even the National Enquirer has been sniffing around.  Having Chavez go missing after Nick tangled with her is problematic.  Somebody should be looking hard at him, unless everyone who works closely with her is also HW and they wouldn't want to draw attention to what they're doing.

[Darklazr]

Grimm has it's own version of Scandal's B613...RME!

[OtterMommy]

*Nick is linked to the two agents from three or so years back that were killed in a grisly manner. Nick was snotty ( not entirely without reason) to the Bureau then, and probably not making any new, helpful friends for the future. This will come back and hurt Nick's lobbying for leniency for Teresa because this would be the third time Nick is linked to strange doings around FBI agents.

 

 

I forgot about that until you mentioned it. Yeah, there is still an open federal murder case involving 2 FBI agents and Nick was only "cleared" because of ballistics (and no one seemed to ask if he had more than one gun?)

 

Good news for Detective Burkhart, though...this show has absolutely NO continuity whatsoever.  How many cases have just been left open?  How many times should Nick have been investigated (like, you know, when a bunch of his neighbors surrounding his house were killed?  Yes, NIck had an alibi--he was shooting rubber bullets at his boss to scare the spirit of Jack the Ripper out of him, but why wasn't he at least questioned...if not as a possible suspect, as someone who might just have some information about his neighbors?)  And why hasn't Nick looked at the pictures on his phone and realized that he saw the claw back when the Aswang was in town?  Frankly, the fact that NO ONE seemed to check to see if they had used that oh-so-creative symbol before says quite a lot about the show.  However, if it turns out that the uprising is led by a bunch of elderly women from The Philippines, I guess I'll forgive them (because, if that is true, they have bigger problems to deal with...)

 

It's like Eve/Juliette.  If you haven't read the article, Stacey linked to it in the Spoilers thread.  I know some people don't like spoilers, and I respect that, but I do recommend that article for this reason:  The official social media sites of the show, as well as the writers and actors, have been pushing that article pretty strongly, which makes me think that there will not ever be a complete explanation of what happened in the actual show.  Which is just so far beyond unacceptable and lazy (both using a TVLine article to explain your show AND what the TVLine article actually says) that I have zippo confidence in this show.

 

Okay, getting off my soapbox....

 

ETA: Bold...because I needed emphasize my rant....

Edited December 15, 2015 by OtterMommy

[neuromom]

I read the article. So, Bitsie thought the wig was "cool"? Ugh. (/eyes crossed/)

And

she is Eve now? I'm SURE we will all be able to know that she is a different character because she will give that new character a unique "personality" with lots of nuance. (/sarcasm/)

Edited December 15, 2015 by stacey
Spoiler tags

[OtterMommy]

I read the article. So, Bitsie thought the wig was "cool"? Ugh. (/eyes crossed/)

And

she is Eve now? I'm SURE we will all be able to know that she is a different character because she will give that new character a unique "personality" with lots of nuance. (/sarcasm/)

And! And! And! And I have to spoilerize this rant...

It's not even a new character! It's just Juliette, who has been beaten into submission, and decides to change her name. Juliette's body never died and she still has all of Juliette's memories but, for some reason not her emotions--I'm thinking PTSD--which is wrong on at least a couple of levels. #1 - Beating yet another woman into submission is not cool. #2 - This is stupid, stupid, stupid!!!!!

I swear, that is the dumbest, laziest retcon ever....

Edited December 15, 2015 by stacey