The Passions of Jane & Friends: Relationships of the show

[FurryFury]

Hello everyone! I'm a new viewer, and I'd never have got into the show if not for the word of mouth and AVClub consistently giving its episodes high grades. I also watch quite a bit of CW shows in general, so I decided to check it out and was pleasantly surprised.

 

However, I feel like for a soap opera, this forum noticeably lacks for a relationships thread, so I've decided to open one. Enjoy.

 

As for my own impressions, sadly I've found Jane/Rafael - essentially, the main romance - the worst part of the show. Rafael is dull and his actor, while he does have chemistry with Jane, isn't really good. In fact, this romance contradicts the thing I've loved the most about the show - the clever deconstruction/lampshading of the common tropes. It's your basic telenovela stuff, and I don't want this. I want something more. It's just your basic wish fulfillment/escapist fantasy.

 

Also, a big problem with Rafael is that he's just never funny. Well, Michael kinda has a similar issue, but he was much better last episode with Rogelio (Rogelio just makes everyone better, except Rafael. I kinda want to see him interact with Petra and/or Magda (where the hell is she?), this could be comedy gold right here). And Michael feels like a well-rounded character (not to mention his actor is clearly better). So while I really don't care about shipping and stuff on this show, if I had to choose, I'd choose him, at least I don't want to flash-forward his scenes with Jane, unlike Rafael.

 

Rogelio/Xo is, OTOH, cute, somewhat believable and quite watchable, and I love Petra with everyone, she's probably my favorite character at this point. Jane's familial relationships are also nice, while probably a bit too sweet at times. I'd also love to see more Rogelio/everyone, especially Michael and, oddly, his actor nemesis (Esteban, I think) and even his ex-assistant who got him fired. 

Edited March 22, 2015 by FurryFury

[RachelKM]

I was going to post in the episode thread, but I realized that this portion of my comment was more of a global analysis of the triangle than episode specific. 

 

I have always liked Rafael more than most of this board and I think I've been more cool toward Michael as well.  I LOVE Micheal with Rogelio.  And I can see why Jane might have more in common with Michael and love and choose him... And even with everything he's done, I think Michael is generally the better person out of the two love interests, except for one very important context,  his anger and jealousy.

 

I actually think Jane and Michael would have been amazing as a couple had she never gotten pregnant. But she has gotten pregnant and the baby is Rafael's and he's not going anywhere.  And unfortunately, that is the one thing that makes Michael lose his shit and be an asshole.  I really never got over his lying and scheming in Season One because he was willing to put Jane's baby in a bad situation to get Rafael and his baby (that was also Jane's baby) out of their lives. Sure, he came around, but that was a big betrayal.  

 

He was better for a while and I almost forgot what a dick he can be when it comes to Rafael, but he really was awful to him last season and again this most recent episode.  Michael's jealousy makes him a volatile and irrational asshole and it's not healthy.

 

Conversely, I think Rafael is immature and has baggage to rival a Samsonite factory, but he's a decent guy and is actually probably a better person than his upbringing predicted.  I don't know if I will want him with Jane, but I feel like overall, he's handled stuff with Jane pretty well.  Sure he went off the rails a bit when his dad was murdered and then his mom showed up, but it was a pretty emotional thing to go through and he got his shit back together pretty quickly all things considered.

 

I don't know that I'm TeamRafael, but I cannot be TeamMichael.  I guess I'm TeamMateo and under the circumstance so far, Michael seems not to be able to handle all of the realities of what Mateo needs. 

Edited November 15, 2015 by RachelKM

[jjjmoss]

The best relationships on the show:

Jane/Xo
Jane/Petra
Michael/Rogelio
Luisa/Rose
Jane/Rogelio
Petra/Magda

 

Notice only 1 is romantic, and it hasn't been onscreen for the second half of the episodes aired so far.

I don't know if the show can make me care overly much for the triangle especially, given how tiresome all the screentime it gets is, though given that I think Raf is the worst character in all respects I'm obviously against him "winning."

[Enginerd]

I like Rafael, and I think he's often funny. I don't agree that the acting is bad, either...to me, it is a good portrayal of a more introverted, tense guy who has very little experience with healthy loving relationships, tries to appear polished and in charge but is actually unsure and insecure, and often doesn't know what to do and has a lot on his mind. He seems very real to me. I don't necessarily want him in a romantic relationship with Jane and I think he should stop being so pushy about it, but I also understand his desperate longing for a loving family that is leading him to be rather unreasonable about it.

 

Does Rafael have any friends, now that Zaz is gone? He needs some friends. Real friends, not the club scenesters. A relationship like Michael has with Rogelio would do him a lot of good.

 

My favorite relationships are Rogelio's, with everyone else. Even with Britney. And his dear friends Oprah Winfrey and Gloria Estefan.

I think Rogelio and Petra should interact more. That seems like grand comedy.

[RachelKM]

Rom the Chapter Thirty thread :

Well, I'm referring to his emotional status not his actions, which I don't condone. Because if Michael had fully embraced the situation, he wouldn't be realistic. I'm not saying he should've done what he did, but it's realistic and understandable for a person to take that badly...again, emotionally speaking. I'm not many agree with what Michael did next. It's not a big deal to me if they feel as if they're the one/right for her, but I can understand Michael's frame of thoughts because of their plans opposed to Rafael because of medical malpractice.

 

Actually, Michael does know more about Jane than Rafael does. I'm not sure how this is debatable because the series constantly highlights this--it's not even trivial stuff either such as stuff she likes, but her personality as well. As far as Michael thinking he knows Jane better than Jane, I don't believe he does know her better, and I disagree with the fact that he said it to her, but again, this traces back to his frustration with everything they had compared to what he thinks is going on with Jane: she wants to make a family with the dad. Jane constantly flirts with the idea, but I don't think she's adamant about that happening, but it would be nice in her opinion. That's what he's critical about.

 

Not violent either, but more so the yelling, accusations, etc when he's upset.

 

I agree that it is understandable that Micheal wasn't immediately thrilled with the prospect of Jane having another man's baby.  Where he lost me was repeatedly breaking the law in furtherance of a lie that put Jane's child at risk.  Not only was Michael covering for serious fission in the Solano marriage, the solidity of which was a serious factor/consideration for Jane of which he was well aware, but he was aware that there was mob activity at the Marbella.  Mob activity that, at minimum, Petra was connected to, and possibly (though actually not) Rafael - a theory he totally ran with when Jane left him.  He was prepared to put Jane's child in an unsafe environment to have it out of his life.

 

Sure, he came around.  But I don't think that is a thing I would easily forgive.  It wasn't just a lie.  It was a lie that put her child at risk emotionally and possibly physically.

 

Likewise, Michael's anger management issues resulting in violence also put Mateo at risk.  I don't think Michael is a terrible person, and as I said above, I think he and Jane would have been great together had she never been wrongly inseminated.  But she was, it they cannot go back.  Rafael will always be in their lives now and Michael doesn't seem able to handle that. And that is also not good for Mateo.  

 

I also disagree that Rafael felt entitled based on a medical malpractice.  He never indicated any sort of assumption that he and Jane would be a couple when it first happened.  He didn't seem to have any specific thoughts in that direction until after the letter mix up and by then Jane was already having romantic fantasies about him.  And he and Jane actually dated and were on a good road to getting to know one another before his life blew up with his father's death and his mother admitting to basically selling him as a baby.

 

I don't get why Michael's bad reaction and multiple criminal acts (as a police officer) are more understandable in his emotional state than Rafael's one or two bad acts and single criminal act (it is illegal to solicit a false statement to the police) over an even bigger series of emotional gut punches.

 

*Side note.  One inconsistency that has been bugging me is that, initially, Rafael was the guy who instinctively got her and her need to write. The writing sort of backed off the initial "meant to be" indicators after they actually put Rafael and Jane together.  Then it was suddenly all about how different they were and how much they didn't yet get each other.  The latter may be more realistic, but the former was the writing given and is quite common in soaps generally and telenovelas especially.

Edited December 23, 2015 by RachelKM

[kieyra]

I think the problem is, for this kind of triangle to work long-term (hint: it doesn't) they have to contort the characters back and forth between "nice guy" and "asshat" so many times that keeping score is pointless. I also strongly suspect that most people are, whether they admit it or not, #teamtheguytheythinkishotter.

Sadly I'm not attracted to either so the whole thing is getting super boring. :)

[Nanrad]

Rachel, I think Michael is learning to handle that Rafael will always be in Jane's life, but I also think the two of them need to sit down and talk it out. Going back means pretending Mateo doesn't exist and clearly that can't happen. With how much Jane loves Mateo, I believe he's willing to embrace the situation for what it is that fight for what will never happen. 

 

After Rafael decided he wanted to be with Jane, he felt entitled because they had a child together. This is based on his own words, "What about Mateo?" Another variances of it that refers to them being a family unit simply based on having a child together.

 

I understand Michael's actions more, even though I don't agree with some of them due to the life he and Jane had planned before the insemination. This is not her simply falling out of love with Michael and moving on; Jane feels the same way as she once did, so they had something. And to lose someone and have them be arms length from you, inaccessible, but feel the same way...I can understand Michael's shambled emotions.

 

I'm not saying what Rafael did is worst than Michael's actions, but I say that episode last January and what Rafael did recently. At the same time, even though I do believe Rafael loves her, I don't buy the same investment in her as a person beyond his increased desperation for a family. Understandably some disagree about when and why that happened, but either way, it was always there. Even if Jane liked him, if she weren't pregnant, would he be the factor he is now? I disagree. I think she loves him as well, but not to a point where I'm on board with his "protecting my family" rhetoric, scheming, and trying to deflect blame.

 

Even though I understand Michael's train of thought, doesn't mean I agree with his actions, which is a point I've reiterated a few times. I agree with Jane about several decisions she made regarding Michael. 

[Irlandesa]

I think the problem is, for this kind of triangle to work long-term (hint: it doesn't) they have to contort the characters back and forth between "nice guy" and "asshat" so many times that keeping score is pointless.

Not only that but they have to pretty much have Jane swing back and forth.  Either she chooses one and still longs for the other or she chooses one and then chooses the other one and then chooses the first one again.

 

I also strongly suspect that most people are, whether they admit it or not, #teamtheguytheythinkishotter

I think that's an over simplification.  The mind is more powerful than the eyes.  I think it comes down to things like which character interests people more, which story they want to see told on JTV, who they think she has more chemistry with...etc. I'm not attracted to either guy either even if I could objectively tell someone what might be considered attractive about them.  Yet, I do have a preference.

[Lady Calypso]

You know, I think all three of these individuals are so incredibly flawed in their own ways that none of them are better than the others. Looking at Michael, he's emotional, he has an anger issue (something I believe he has addressed; it would be nice to see him getting help with it) and I do agree that he might feel entitled to Jane because he's known her longer. Now, I love Michael and am a full-fledged fan of him and Jane more than Jane/Rafael, but he has his own serious flaws and I think there's a lot that needs to be discussed with Jane before either of them can move forward. Their relationship has changed completely since Jane got pregnant, whether either of them want to admit it or not. That's why if they want to pursue anything, they need to talk things out. And yes, Michael also needs to talk to Rafael, because he is part of the problem. Michael's anger stems with Rafael being the father of Mateo. So Rafael and Michael need to fix this problem together. 

 

Taking a look at Rafael, he's also entitled in his own way. He has a child with Jane (plus one long conversation and a kiss from the past....) so he also thinks that he deserves Jane more because of it. His reasoning has centered around Mateo, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but the whole reason why they even got together was because of him. I look back on season 1, when Rafael broke up with Jane by lying to her about his love for her. I honestly think that could be on the same level as Michael's early season deceptiveness, because Rafael is making the choice for Jane. He basically gave her little choice in the matter by giving her the 'I don't love you' speech. Once that was out there, how could Jane be with him? If he had been honest, it would have been better. So Rafael has made just as bad decisions as Michael has. It just so happens that Michael has made more of them.

 

The show is clearly in favour of Jane/Rafael, that much is clear. We've gotten so many more Jane/Rafael scenes while Jane/Michael is given more of an afterthought. They got their scenes here and there, but Jane/Rafael will always be chosen over Jane/Michael. Although now, it seems like we're just going to have Jane bouncing back and forth every episode between them. 

 

Now Jane has her own set of issues. She needs to be single for a while, and we need to actually see it. Because right now? They gave us technically four/five months of single Jane, but we saw twenty minutes of it, tops. That gives us no time to really react and take it in. Jane is very stubborn and she is seemingly almost always in the right. I think the show needs to shift some of that shiftiness and morally grey behaviour onto Jane, instead of planting the 'bad guy' roles onto Michael and Rafael. Jane needs to be wrong, and people need to be pissed at her. I'm annoyed, especially when it comes to her and Mateo. I think she is self centered and she has made questionable choices when it comes to Rafael caring for Mateo. Yet, the show seems to put this POV in a more positive light, and one that I do not agree with. It would be nice if we saw more of Rafael taking Mateo for a week, or a weekend. We've seen glimpses but we haven't seen him care for his own goddamn child on his own. This show may be about Jane, but we have seen it split into an ensemble piece. 

 

So, this show is going to continue to be a befuddled mess if they stick with giving the bad guy role to Michael and Rafael every other episode, and have Jane be the godly saint who is allowed to only get mad and not be the target of the anger from either guy. The show is incredibly sloppy when it comes to writing this triangle, because they have to go with oversimplified actions to have Jane pick one guy over the other, and it's annoying and frustrating. It may be based off of a telanovela, but the show can do much better than this that they're giving us. 

[wingster55]

The show is clearly in favour of Jane/Rafael, that much is clear. We've gotten so many more Jane/Rafael scenes while Jane/Michael is given more of an afterthought.

 

We may have gotten more scenes..but after the most recent episode especially it's clear that Jane's choice is Michael.

But the most important relationship imo is the Villanueva women. 

[Lady Calypso]

We may have gotten more scenes..but after the most recent episode especially it's clear that Jane's choice is Michael.

But the most important relationship imo is the Villanueva women. 

 

Maybe for now. But last season, Jane chose Rafael. So next season, she could go back to choosing Rafael. All I know is that the showrunners, through the writers, are showing who the real choice is.

 

I do agree, however, the the Villanueva woman (and Mateo) have the most important relationships, and ones I am invested in. Followed by Rogelio/Michael. And on a side note, baby Mateo is THE cutest baby I have seen on television or in movies. I remember the first three episodes of this season, newborn Mateo really beat any baby I've seen on tv. I think it's the dark hair that made him super adorable. 

[wingster55]

See, I never saw that she "chose" Rafael really. Both times Michael took himself out of the equation (albeit temporarily) for Jane. But when both are on an even playing field so to speak...Jane's heart wants Michael. Especially once the novelty of the fantasy of Rafael fades. 

[Irlandesa]

I guess it depends on how one interprets the events. I don't know that they were ever truly equal in the sense that the place Jane is in her life and how she's reacting to some relationship event is affecting which way she turns. In the first season she was drawn to Rafael even when she was with Michael and while she was with Rafael, she reinforced those boundaries with Michael even after she had forgiven him.

She wouldn't have been with Rafael had Michael not done what he did but she also wouldn't have moved back towards Michael had Rafael not broken up with her.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Irlandesa

[Lady Calypso]

See, I never saw that she "chose" Rafael really. Both times Michael took himself out of the equation (albeit temporarily) for Jane. But when both are on an even playing field so to speak...Jane's heart wants Michael. Especially once the novelty of the fantasy of Rafael fades. 

 

I guess it is very much mileage varies and how you see things. For me, I saw Jane choose Rafael. The show made it clear by giving her and Rafael a history, albeit a small one, before the series even began. Having her crushed by him not calling her all those years before Michael, and then having him reappear, made it seem like he was always the one because he was the 'first' to meet her. For me, Michael did a shitty thing, but Jane dumped him very quickly due to her lingering feelings for Rafael. I think that, eventually, she would have had to choose if Michael had not messed up so badly. She could have stayed single after dumping Michael; she chose to start a relationship with Rafael pretty much the same day she broke up with her fiance. She chose to stay with him for most of the season, even after she forgave Michael. 

 

I didn't see Jane wanting Michael as much as Rafael in the first season. This season? Yes, she has clearly stated that she wants Michael. I guess it's the fact that they had Jane clearly state in the pilot that she was crushing hardcore on Rafael when they first met, and those feelings didn't change in the pilot and she seemed interested in him still. She didn't have to make a hard choice, because the choice was already planted in the very first episode. Her heart wasn't with Michael until this season, and even then, do we see them have as many scenes as Jane and Rafael have had? They have had very poignant and important scenes, of course, and I do like them a lot. But Jane/Rafael have had scenes, and not just for the sake of Mateo. Their scenes have also been important because the show is willing to keep up a consistent established relationship with them. Even when they don't technically need to be together, they still find scenes with each other. Again, outside of Mateo, they just seem to be the more established 'endgame' couple, while Jane/Michael get their scenes, but they could definitely have more. Michael does fit in the show, and he can fit in Jane's life, if they allow him to and stop him from screwing up by being an ass to Rafael 70% of his scenes. 

[ShellsandCheese]

I think Jane needs to be single. She needs to be single for like a year, and then she needs to date. Not Michael and not Rafael; just go on some dates with new people. She keeps going back to Michael because that's all she knows. And then she tries with Rafael because of Mateo.

At this stage of the show, I don't think either of the two are right for her and I don't think she's right for either of them.

[bantering]

I don't get Jane's pull on Raphael. I get why Michael would be so determined to be paired with her given their long history, but even with the insemination screw-up where he's attached to the idea of having a family it's not really clear to me why Raphael is so in love with her. Maybe if he were more naive or was younger, I might get it, but since he's a 31 year old experienced guy who clearly has no problem with the ladies, I don't really get how or why Jane has the power to turn him into such a love-struck mess, not to mention a really weird one.  That she's the polar opposite of Petra is also a bit of a question mark in terms of attraction. I guess he doesn't have a type...

 

How Raphael fell for Jane in the first place isn't really clear to me. He had a sex dream about her where he realized he had an attraction to her but before that I can't really remember what led up to him having such strong feelings for her. 

 

I like both Raphael and Michael. And I feel sorry for both men that they're hung up on this girl, no matter how well-played she is by Gina Rodriguez. I suppose I just want everyone to find happiness, no matter their flaws. I do get the sense Jane has strong feelings for Raphael no matter what (though more because of his looks than anything else? I'm not sure if that's love or lust), and I'm not too keen on seeing either guy get hurt. I don't feel Michael deserves a brutal dumping either. Normally, I can pick a side (i.e Ben over Noel during the Felicity years), but this love triangle makes my head hurt.

Edited March 16, 2016 by bantering

[bantering]

I've long felt that to Rafael, pregnant Jane was a symbol of family to him and that was what he fell in love with (and her looks) more than the actual girl herself. 

 

 

 

That's what I believe it is too. Which makes their love story a little blah for me.

 

Jane is completely the opposite of Petra, both physically and in personality, that I don't quite understand how he's remained  committed to the idea of remaining in love with her (especially now that Petra has two children by him now as well).  Nonetheless, I can understand his disgust with Petra for cheating on him. I just find his movement from someone like Petra to someone like Jane a little puzzling.  Maybe he wants someone who is the opposite of Petra (er, someone who is honest) but even the physical difference between the two (Petra is more sophisticated while Jane seems to eschew glamour to some degree, even when her dad is willing to pay for it) makes one wonder what Raphael's type actually is, if he has one at all.

 

I get what Jane sees in him (well, physically anyway... in terms of, uh, you know,  straight-up lust -- though I'm not sure if anyone in real life would want to deal with the rest of him if you take his money out of the equation. Would I want to deal with Sin Rostro or Mutter? Yeah, he's hot, but maybe I prefer my safety more.).  I also think HIS pull on her is less puzzling to me than her pull on him. He kind of has that physical look to him that I could see a young, inexperienced woman losing her mind over. I just don't necessarily see an older, former womanizing  guy who looks like him losing his mind over someone like Jane.  She has a lovely personality in terms of her integrity and honesty, but I don't know if I've seen that sort of thing in real life to be a big pull for men who look and act like like Raphael. And I'm not even sure if thats what he does love about her since he never really seems to say what it is he does like about her. I think I can recall him saying that he liked Petra's ability to snag a bargain for rich people and calculate costs down to the cent, but he never really says what it is he likes about Jane. 

 

I also think her quick transitions between both guys could be written better. 

Edited March 19, 2016 by bantering

[Irlandesa]

I just find his movement from someone like Petra to someone like Jane a little puzzling.  Maybe he wants someone who is the opposite of Petra (er, someone who is honest) but even the physical difference between the two (Petra is more sophisticated while Jane seems to eschew glamour to some degree, even when her dad is willing to pay for it) makes one wonder what Raphael's type actually is, if he has one at all.

I don't think the show has established a 'type' for him, necessarily. In flashbacks, we saw him attracted to Jane five years before Mateo was even a thing.  He didn't initially decide to go for Petra because she was his "type" but rather because she was with Lachlan.  He dated the black single mother earlier in the season. And some lovely young good time girls who didn't reek of sophistication in this past episode. 

 

I just don't necessarily see an older, former womanizing  guy who looks like him losing his mind over someone like Jane.  She has a lovely personality in terms of her integrity and honesty, but I don't know if I've seen that sort of thing in real life to be a big pull for men who look and act like like Raphael.

What I've seen in real life that rings true is a pretty big shift in priorities and even personality, to an extent, after someone goes through cancer.  This is not true for every cancer survivor but I've known plenty who become less fearful, more loving and nicer and even people who appreciate people/things in their life that they could only bitch about before. Even though there was an attraction, whatever Jane had that attracted Rafael during his playboy days wasn't something he prioritized in a partner at that time so that attraction didn't become a dating relationship.  However, those traits are now things that post-cancer Rafael values more.  I think part of the reason he lost his mind a little bit has a lot to do with the fact that he feels like he screwed it up...that they'd still be together if he hadn't broken up with her. 

 

And I'm not even sure if thats what he does love about her since he never really seems to say what it is he does like about her. I think I can recall him saying that he liked Petra's ability to snag a bargain for rich people and calculate costs down to the cent, but he never really says what it is he likes about Jane.

Have we seen any character actually delineate what people like/love in their partners?  Has Michael?  Jane about Michael?  Xio about Rogelio?  Petra about Rafael?  I think they were obvious with Petra and Rafael because we've seen a lot of flashbacks showcasing the courtship of Michael and Jane.  We actually watched Rafael and Jane's relationship develop.  What we've seen of Petra and Rafael is basically both of them start dating the other for cynical reasons.  I think the only happy flashback we'd seen of them was the one where she was knitting a hat for their baby. 

 

As for what Rafael likes in Jane, while I don't recall the show ever writing him speaking out a list other than saying he likes/loves everything about her but I've felt it has shown us what he likes about her.  He likes that she's a writer. He encourages her to be a dreamer.  She makes him laugh and smile a lot. She raps! He was even amused by her judginess and need to control things such as his first dinner with Xio and Alba.

[Kummerspeck]

By the way, was there ever any explanation for why Rafael fell out of love with Petra? Because it seemed to have happened sometime during his cancer recovery, when she was, to all intents and purposes, a devoted wife nursing him back to health. He doesn't suspect or know about the affair until long after he had decided to divorce her - a decision that he made before he even met Jane. I mean, there doesn't have to be a reason why he fell out of love with her. In fact, you can argue that he was never in true love with her since he started the relationship with her for nefarious reasons, and probably didn't even expect it to get as far as it did. If not for the flashbacks that seem to indicate that there was a time of true affection between them, I won't even be wondering now.

No solid reason, just that one day he was depressed and talking to Luisa, and she said if he didn't like his life he should change it.

And apparently, that meant getting rid of his (at the time) loyal wife who was faithfully taking care of him.

[Irlandesa]

No solid reason, just that one day he was depressed and talking to Luisa, and she said if he didn't like his life he should change it.

And apparently, that meant getting rid of his (at the time) loyal wife who was faithfully taking care of him.

Fucking his best friend is how we define loyalty these days?

I don't think the show has ever specified how Rafael and Petra fell out of love. And I doubt they ever will because it wouldn't fit the current narrative of them bonding over happier times.

Still, illness can take its toll on marriages and even though they may have loved one another, their relationship wasn't built on the strongest of foundations. Narratively, I think their time line is a bit of a mess. They met, planned a big wedding, got married, had a late term miscarriage (I don't recall but supposedly this season suggested more than one in such a tight window but whatever...), Raf had cancer and got healthy from treatment, Petra started an affair and Raf got unhappy. All of this took place within the five years between Raf kissing Jane and Jane getting pregnant. Those are just events that would stress any marriage. Add in the fact that Raf is trying to make his hotel successful to please his father, Petra having to deal with her mother and lying to Rafael about who she really is and I don't think it's a surprise the marriage ended. I don't even feel like I need more of an explanation that both of them weren't happy in what they had.

[DianeDobbler]

I just jumped on this show and am binge-watching. Love it. Gina Rodriguez is fantastic, but in terms of relationships, I think there are three actors on this show who have chemistry with everything that moves: Yael Grobglas (Petra), Jaime Camil (Rogerio) and Brett Dier (Michael). I think Justin Baldoni (Rafael) is kind of a dud, and not pretty enough for me either, but his story with Petra works because of Grobglas. Also, he seems more relaxed with her than with Rodriguez, in terms of acting, but that's parsing it. Rogerio, for all his childish, cartoonish ways, has the charisma and charm needed in Rafael, that Rafael is kind of missing. It's weird for me that in two telenova-inspired shows where a poor girl was vis a vis a rich guy, this, and Ugly Betty, the rich, handsome, charming guy was the weak link (IMO).

While I don't think she has automatic chemistry with everyone on the show, Rodriguez is an EXTREMELY generous actor. When I started watching, I thought Jane's mom would begin to get on my nerves, but she's terrific. I love how both of Jane's parents are kind of childlike, with a Jane parenting Xiomara, Xiomara parenting Rogerio dynamic. although Jane and Xiomara have more evened out now.

 P.S.- after watching more of the show, I like the Petra/Jane dynamic even more. The yelling and screaming when Petra was in labor - the actresses looked as if they were having a blast. Rodriguez was hilarious reading her novel aloud and Grobglas was very touching with Petra's crazy labor.

I don't keep tabs too much on who does the worst things, or if a relationship is healthy or not, because there is so much plot we can't really hold characters to real life standards. I agree that at the very start of the show, in the early episodes, it appeared as if Michael was going to be controlling, particularly wanting her - telling her - to quit her job. I was very grateful that the show had Jane refuse. At the same time, I thought the montage showing us what Michael was afraid of with a baby was hilarious, and subsequently he really has become a major hero with a lot of personal growth. I don't see how he is boring - he's great looking, he's hilarious, and he's a smart, daring detective who has achieved a bunch of rescues - Mateo, Rogelio, Petra (Petra mostly saved herself but he was the only person during the Zaz ordeal from whom she got an ounce of support and comfort).

I think the Michael/Rafael thing is that to many people, any choice other than Rafael seems to make the premise of the show pointless - poor girl vis a vis poor little rich boy/playboy. Why set that up as the foundation story if it's not going to pay off? I find that shows, in the end, tend to just pay off the premise - even Ugly Betty sort of did despite what, to me, was zero chemistry or plausibility between the US version of Daniel and Betty. Here, the wild card is Petra's twins. There is always the possibility we'll find out the sample wasn't Rafael's, I guess, but if they are his, why would the show make Petra pregnant, bonding her forever with Rafael as much as Jane? In terms of romantic relationships, the leading romance in this show is a quad. Both Petra and Jane have Rafael's babies. I could see a switch-out Petra/Michael and Rafael/Jane, but the show hasn't done much with Petra/Michael. The show has done more with Rafael/Michael. I see some sort of quad family dynamic in the end with the original couples back together.

Edited May 15, 2016 by DianeDobbler

[scrb]

Is the on again, off again, back on again nature of the relationships, where several characters fall in love, then out, then back in love with each other a lampooning of telenovelas?

Or is the show being earnest, in which case it's ridiculous?

Jane fell in love with Michael, then out with him, then back.   She did the same with Rafael, then out, then back in.

Rafael does the same with Petra, etc. etc.

Then repeated whodunnits over the seasons.

At least they're not churning through marriages and more children through all these cycles.

[Joana]

Actually, love triangles, jumping from one relationship straight into another, repeatedly falling in and out of love with the same person etc. are decidedly NOT telenovela tropes. When it comes to relationships, telenovelas are very clear-cut: it's more than obvious right from the beginning who the protagonist is going to fall for and that they're going to be together in the end. They do split and then get back together, usually twice over the course of the show, but it's entirely due to the bad guys' schemes and manipulations, and not because they've stopped loving each other. The heroine may date someone else while they're separated or even be engaged and about to get married, but it's 100% clear she's with the other guy solely out of gratitude or spite or whatever, not love. 

Now, there are telenovelas where the protagonist has two Big Loves. On top of my head I can think of two, "Mi destino eres tu" and "Pobre diabla". Incidentally, both are somehow connected with JtV, as Jaime Camil himself took part in the former, while the protagonist of the latter starred in JtV as Rogelio's scene partner in "Tiago". However, in such cases, the two loves never coexist on the screen - one always precedes the other and the former lover dies before the next one appears. 

That this show not only made Michael a viable candidate for Jane's heart, but also made him her Real Love and made Petra an actual living, breathing person instead of the "evil wife who does evil things because she is evil" trope basically meant taking two of the biggest tropes and turning them upside down. It was a very anti-talenovela thing to do and it was extremely refreshing. Nowadays, the relationship dynamics on the show look more like fairly standard American TV like Melrose Place or Desperate Housewives with a touch of telenovela. 

[scrb]

Thanks for that explanation.

I appreciate that the characters can change over time, especially how they feel about people they've loved in the past.

But it seems to happen with every character, not just the young leads but Rogelio and Xo too.

It's kind of soap opera-ish.  Find myself rolling my eyes when Jane and Petra are now both feeling it for Rafael again.

Like I said, at least they haven't ended up with more children who are half-siblings out of this, which could be really messy.