S02.E17: Tempting Fate

[PinkRibbons]

NOTE: Reign airs on Wednesdays in Canada, meaning that the episodes are very often viewed a day before they have aired in the US. Therefore please be aware that this thread will almost definitely have spoilers for those who wish to wait until Thursday night to view the new episode.

 

Quote

Francis becomes seriously ill after he collapses. Meanwhile, Bash's life is in danger; Catherine suspects that Mary is being unfaithful to Francis; and Leith is tasked with being Claude's personal guard.

 

American Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FBkaWFR0Yo

 

Canadian Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wIK3CqGln4

[brisbydog]

I have no idea where this show is going. Way too much Leith. Claude will eat him alive. Another triangle? Grossed out that Mary went all the way with Condé. Weird plot with Bash but at least I'm interested. RIP Francis at last? (Doubt it). Finally.... way into Narcisse and Catherine. Revived my interest in show at last moment lol.

[Artsda]

Narcisse sure gets around the castle.

 

Could Bash's healing have something to do with Francis getting sick at the same time? 

 

I wonder if Mary will now get pregnant since she had sex with Conde.

[Rhetorica]

I think Mary is being poisoned like Henry and Catherine. That's the only way I can explain why she's acting insane. I love Catherine and Narcisse together. Will Bash die as well as his brother? I can't imagine so.

[redsox7819]

Could Bash's healing have something to do with Francis getting sick at the same time?

 

That is the first thing I thought. But Francis looked unwell the whole episode. So maybe not.

 

Once again can Francis just kill Conde already?

Edited March 20, 2015 by redsox7819

[PinkRibbons]

Well. Ugh.

[dirtypop90]

I really don't like how they're using Mary's rape. It's just flat out offensive. First time we see mary in church, is when she asking God to forgive her for the adultery she's about to commit because she needs conde's penis to heal. Last episode, they did a better job presenting Mary's pov of conde being the safe option and being drawn to that. But they blow that out of the water this episode by having mary immediately forgive conde for his duplicity and sleep with him. That made no sense to me. Seems they just raped Mary just so she could have an affair and keep the audience's sympathy. I don't think it's working though.

And sean teale is really bad at acting. None of mary and conde's multiple scenes every ep hold any emotional weight. Their confrontation scene about Elizabeth felt like I was watching a school play. I can feel Adelaide trying but she's only as good as the actor opposite of her, and sean doesn't give her much to work with, which is why it's such a pity most of her scenes post rape have been with him. this could have been a big s/l for her as an actress if the writers had given her more emotional scenes with Catherine, her ladies, and Francis as she struggled with her ptsd

[HunterHunted]

That was deeply offensively stupid.

That is the first thing I thought. But Francis looked unwell the whole episode. So maybe not.

 

Once again please can Francis just kill Conde already?

I wish Francis' ear infection would just kill Conde.

[bluestocking]

Never understood why showrunners think assassinating the character of their lead was a good idea.  And having Mary "heal" from her rape by banging Conde doesn't even make sense.  Plus the actors have no chemistry.  All around fail.

[treeofdreams]

On the whole, I find this series fascinating.  They just go off in all directions (never mind history, which ship sailed at the very beginning of the series) and fling all sorts of storylines at us.  It's not predictable, it's not reasonable, it's just Reignworld.  And I am enjoying all that.  Also, Catherine + Narcisse = yummy.

 

That being said, I think Mary being raped soured the whole series.  Mary had turned into a fairly strong queen, but now, instead of Mary the queen we are seeing Mary the woman who was raped who just happens to be queen.  They have weakened her dreadfully, and made her whole story about the rape.  Even going back to Scotland to reclaim her throne is about leaving her past behind and starting a new life in Scotland.

 

If they wanted to separate her from Francis to provide drama (since they are not following history), there are so many other ways they could have done it, and still made her a strong character.  I would have enjoyed that version of the series even more.

[tapplum]

While I generally tend to like Francis, and for that matter Frary, I'm perfectly fine with the idea of Mary having an affair. Sure it's the kind of stupid that beggars belief and political (not to mention, possibly very literal) suicide, but it's not really any more absurd than the rest of the show. But by god, if she's going to have an affair, could she not have it with someone at least *slightly* less boring than a wall of drying paint? At this point Conde doesn't even seem like a character, more like a plot-generated piece of scenery that looks vaguely surprised every time it's suppossed to utter lines. The storyline might have been actually interesting and believable if it had involved Bash, rather than this cheap and deeply inadequate Bash lite.

[PinkRibbons]

I comfort myself with a few things about Conde. Taking the chance to give the writers maybe a tiny bit of credit, I think that very early on, they set up that he is the worst possible partner for Mary. For one thing, he's from her husband's rival house, which would look bad even if she only was openly known to be seeing him after Francis's death, much less sleeping with him while her husband still lived. And there's that line from early on in the season when he said that it's a good thing he's not a king. Because he would suck at it, as he has demonstrated time and again. And any man that marries Mary becomes King of Scotland while she lives. Conde only looks out for Conde and those he cares about. And then there's the fact that the man has exclusively only been seen sleeping with married women. It's his type. Once Mary is a widow, is she gonna be so tantalizing?

 

All in all, if Francis does die, I do hope that Conde gets the story of Mary's second husband; because that ends with him almost being blown up and then strangled to death. And before that happens, it's going to hit Mary very hard how badly she fucked up in choosing him, and I will relish that myself.

 

Meanwhile, if the show means to fake us out and have Francis living but deposed and in hiding, I think Frary has pretty much been sunk. Unless he turns out as Mary's third husband. I was starting to ship him with Lola but was disappointed in her encouragement of Mary this episode. Francis should get away from these people and have a nice, normal, happy life.

 

Something that turns my stomach however is that once Francis has died (fake death or real, doesn't matter), before Charles can be crowned (and Catherine made Regent), Mary has to go into a period of confinement to be sure that she's not pregnant with the next king. If she turns out to be pregnant by Conde and then even thinks about passing that baby off as Francis's in a bid to keep France as her own, I hope Catherine destroys her. I wouldn't normally think of Mary as being that power-hungry, but I don't like how the promo for next episode if focusing on, "oh hey, my husband's dying. NOW I'M KING."

[dirtypop90]

I honestly don't think francis is dying.

[Bosman]

They need to fast forward this twit to Scotland already, where Mary's innate stupidity can really shine and Elizabeth can really start having fun with her. 

[Andromeda]

Are the writers trying to make us hate Mary? Because job well done! The whole idea of her doing whatever to find "happiness" is so anachronistic, it's laughable. People in the 16th century didn't usually think that was something to strive for, much less a queen born for a royal duty. So Mary comes across as selfish and silly in pretty much any time period, but putting her affair opposite her husband falling deathly ill, they're just begging us to hate her.

 

Not just for the affair, but the treason. It'd be amazing if she didn't lose her head (well, in real 16th century France, not in this weird modern Hollywood take, where we're supposed to...what, root for Mary's pursuit of happiness?

I'm also annoyed how easily Bash and Kenna tossed away their marriage, treating it with less concern than most modern couples would. Ridiculous to think anyone in the 16th century -- Catholics, no less -- wouldn't already be resigned to it being a lifetime commitment. Because they were married for life.

[Artsda]

I think it was more Kenna than Bash, there wasn't much left to hold onto when all she aspired to was a title. She was ready to take off to be King Antoin's Queen had he have true intentions. Bash deserves better than to just have her stay with him because King Antoin played her about the sick wife and his reasons. The next King or someone with a title that comes along will just have Kenna running anyways.

[missbonnie]

Wow! Used to love this show and now it's done a 180 and I about can not stand to watch it. The writers have made Mary the most unsympathetic character I've seen in awhile. 

[TheGourmez]

I'm also annoyed how easily Bash and Kenna tossed away their marriage, treating it with less concern than most modern couples would. Ridiculous to think anyone in the 16th century -- Catholics, no less -- wouldn't already be resigned to it being a lifetime commitment. Because they were married for life.

 

I obviously need to come by this message board more often--you all hate the Mary/Condi relationship too! While Condi is certainly easy on the eyes, I couldn't believe that Mary turned to him to help her heal, that she would ever choose him over Francis, and more importantly, her strengthened power through her marriage with Francis. And when she decided to go ahead and trust him and sleep with him this episode? I hope she's really just going for a lay before chucking him out the door.

 

When Francis collapsed, I gasped along with Catherine. I could definitely see it being Narcisse poisoning him through his niece--he was so quick to assure Catherine she was overreacting. To be fair, she was. I'm worried she's still snuffing some Bible dust in her spare time.

 

And Bash and Kenna! I really bought into their relationship. I am not buying into Kenna tossing it aside so swiftly.

[ulkis]

Are the writers trying to make us hate Mary? Because job well done! The whole idea of her doing whatever to find "happiness" is so anachronistic, it's laughable. People in the 16th century didn't usually think that was something to strive for, much less a queen born for a royal duty. So Mary comes across as selfish and silly in pretty much any time period, but putting her affair opposite her husband falling deathly ill, they're just begging us to hate her.

 

Not just for the affair, but the treason. It'd be amazing if she didn't lose her head (well, in real 16th century France, not in this weird modern Hollywood take, where we're supposed to...what, root for Mary's pursuit of happiness?

I'm also annoyed how easily Bash and Kenna tossed away their marriage, treating it with less concern than most modern couples would. Ridiculous to think anyone in the 16th century -- Catholics, no less -- wouldn't already be resigned to it being a lifetime commitment. Because they were married for life.

 

Exactly! That's why Kenna was crying when they got married, because like she said, "it can't be undone". Heopfully they won't actually get a divorce even they are with other people. (Or did they get one? I haven't watched the episode yet.)

 

Everyone's Conde hate is cracking me up. Honestly, I just watch Catherine, Bash and Kenna scenes mostly so I've seen like 1% of Conde. But he is Not Hot.

Edited March 25, 2015 by ulkis

[ulkis]

And, once again, how did Kenna reason that she'd become a Queen when she was marrying a King Consort? Are we really supposed to think that she is that stupid? 

 

I'm not sure what the writers want us to think, but prior to her marriage to Bash I had no use for her because she was indeed, That Stupid. So maybe the writers are going back to that well with her.

Edited March 25, 2015 by ulkis

[Eolivet]

I just got around to watching this -- that's how important it was.

 

I get that we're supposed to sympathize with Francis for being cuckolded, but especially in comparison to Catherine, he's just so weak. There's being nice to your wife and then there's being a total doormat. I thought him giving Mary space and time to heal was nice -- giving his "blessing" to Mary and Conde was above and beyond in selflessness, but to me, that blessing should've come with two tickets to Anywhere But Here. Letting the relationship go on under his nose and then outright lying to nobles and his mother just makes me lose all respect for him. It's like he's a masochist or something. Dude. It's possible to be nice and have a tiny bit of a spine.

 

Not like Conde is any better, and I give the writers credit for showing (and telling) every possible way the Mary/Conde hookup/relationship is a completely bad idea, and built on a house of cards that can be easily knocked over by nothing more than a stiff breeze. I'm still not entirely sure what Conde gains from this relationship other than "true love." Mary is basically offering for real what Antoine fake offered Kenna: the chance to be a lover! I liked that last episode that Conde was finally thinking ahead and looking at a good match. But does it have to be all or nothing? Can he marry Elizabeth and sleep with Mary on the side? I never hear about all those kings who lost their heads for infidelity.

 

This plot has gotten more irritating as it's gone on, because I feel like in order for it to make sense, characters have completely taken leave of their common sense. Which has nothing to do with who they're supposed to love, and everything to do with what's going to keep them alive. Mary is completely in denial, Francis is unbelievably weak and Conde is just blind to reality. I've gone from feeling sorry for all of them to feeling sorry for none of them. I'm hoping Francis' illness is some kind of game-changer, or I'll have to root for the mysterious bloody ears of death to take them all out, and the rest of the series can be Catherine and Elizabeth as badass regal rivals, with Narcisse scheming in the background.

Edited April 12, 2015 by Eolivet

[ulkis]

I just got around to watching this -- that's how important it was.

 

I get that we're supposed to sympathize with Francis for being cuckolded, but especially in comparison to Catherine, he's just so weak. 

 

To be fair to Francis, besides the writing, I think part of the reason he seems so weak are his gentle golden curls right on his forehead, heh. He needs to grow it out or cut it. It's such an awkward length, imo.

 

I'll have to root for the mysterious bloody ears of death to take them all out, and the rest of the series can be Catherine and Elizabeth as badass regal rivals, with Narcisse scheming in the background.

 

Even if I loved the other characters, I'd still be rooting for this. Lola can stay too if she wants.

 

I do hope the actress playing Elizabeth is good. But that role usually attracts good-to-brilliant actresses. I've never watched a film/move and thought, oh, that actress is terrible for the role. The closest I've ever come to thinking was either with Bette Davis or Anne-Marie Duff. And that was more, "hmm, maybe they are miscast" than "terrible!"

 

But yeah, I do hope she is good because I wasn't particularly impressed with the actresses playing Mary of Guise or Claude. Maybe they can put a red wig on Anna Popplewell and let her play a double role? That would actually not be the most ridiculous thing this show has done!

Edited April 13, 2015 by ulkis

[LolaRuns]

I realize that it's part of the whole fantasy to have all these man willing to give themselves up for a woman, but at this point it feels like it happens to frequently I'm just tired of it. It just feels like Francis has no personality. It's just ... sad too watch. I get that the writers are probably doing it because they feel it's necessary because of all what Mary has been through etc, so Francis is barely allowed to lift a finger. But for a person, even if you remove any shred of realistic historical portrayal since we know the show doesn't care about that, it just rings really hollow for me. 

 

So yeah, in a weird way I kinda appreciate Conde showing some self interest rather than being another person who is all about Mary (not that that fixes the problem of him being too woodenly acted to be compelling, so I'm talking strictly "on paper"). 

 

I don't think it's super calculating that he's after Mary. I think they established that he has a big thing for married ladies and IMO he must have known/explicitly knew via Antoine that it was a long shot that anything would come out of it. And I actually buy the portrayal that maybe at that point he didn't care since he's a second son anyway and appreciated his freedom/didn't want to be ruler at this point. So maybe sleeping with a powerful woman without all of the responsibility was actually his interest (unless they heavily retcon that, if they go beyond any "well any maybe some advantages for his house if it accidentally happens on the way") and now the water is getting too hot and he wants out. 

Edited April 16, 2015 by LolaRuns