Ratings & Scheduling: That's what more and more of you missed on Glee

[camussie]

Yeah it is obviously spin but my question still remains what kind of whacked out deal did Fox sign with Glee where 22 episodes is even a topic now? Seems to me that are much too concerned with making sure RM's feelings don't get hurt.  

[SNeaker]

My best guess is that there has to some kind of development deal. Ryan agreeing to create a certain number of shows for them over the next few years or summat. It's the only logical explanation I can think of.

 

Not that Glee and logic have ever been mixy things.

[indeed]

All in all it sounds like a big mess in that I think RM and team are vastly over-rating how popular Rachel, Blaine, and Sam are.

Are they popular? Seriously, I see no real proof that Sam and Blaine are popular and should keep being pushed, but then nothing is working lately.

You would think they would have already talked with RM before the announcement instead of sounding so washy-washy about the whole thing. Are they really trying to spare any controversy or save face by not admitting a shortened order at this point or are they just that clueless around there? Whether it's 6, 13, 15, or 24 (sure, Ryan), they need all the time they can get to do pre-production and actually take the time to plan things out. A late start and consecutive airings for the last season's episodes are good. 24 used to start late and had, well, 24 episodes, so anything is possible (but at this point, short would be better--especially if they can manage some quality storytelling. Ha!)

[camussie]

My best guess is that there has to some kind of development deal. Ryan agreeing to create a certain number of shows for them over the next few years or summat. It's the only logical explanation I can think of.

 

 

That would be my guess too.  They have a development deal with RM so they don't want to sour the relationship.  Still any network exec worth their salt should have made sure there was ratings triggers written into the Glee extension.  I suspect there was at least  one - if the show hit at or below a certain point we will shut down Lima in order to save costs.  I just can't believe there weren't others regarding episode numbers.  

 

ETA: The cancellation bear tweet is so on point.  

 

Almost said in Fox's upfront call "#Glee's ratings are likely to be so horrific, we're still trying to figure out how to limit the damage"

 

Edited May 12, 2014 by camussie

[heyerchick]

That the musical series got a two-season pick-up the last time around was itself "a business negotiation," said Reilly, who was asked about the ratings tumble the series has taken of late. - Kevin Reilly

 

 

 

I really don't think it could be stated more plainly that it took a 2-season renewal commitment to get Murphy to give up Noob Directions and the lead weight that was the McKinley narrative. Unfortunately, the beige and the bland made the jump from centre stage Lima to centre stage New York, and Murphy is doubling down on them next season too.

 

Still, at least the reduced role we're expecting for Kurt means Chris will have more time to write and hopefully do more fun stuff like his Hot In Cleveland guest role.

Heh. TV By The Numbers Cancellation Bear amuses:

 

Cancellation Bear ‏@TheCancelBear  59m

Almost said in Fox's upfront call "#Glee's ratings are likely to be so horrific, we're still trying to figure out how to limit the damage"

 

Edited May 12, 2014 by heyerchick

[camussie]

I really don't think it could be stated more plainly that it took a 2-season renewal commitment to get Murphy to give up Noob Directions and the lead weight that was the McKinley narrative.

 

 

Except that the two year renewal was given AFTER RM and team had already decided to extend the school year.  Also AFTER  the two year renewal is when the newbies were given contracts.  That tells me that RM's plan was to keep the newbies around and Fox was on board for the split narrative at least until ratings hit an unacceptable low.  Given that I would bet Fox had it in the contract that RM could keep his second narrative unless or until ratings hit a certain point (which I still think was the 1.5 they got in episode 5.2).  If they hit that point Fox would then pull the narrative.  They did and Fox pulled it.  Still that isn't the same as demanding RM cut it down to one narrative even before they signed the 2 year extension.  If Fox was smart that is what they would have done but they didn't.  Instead they gave him the two year extension and handed the 5 newbies contracts.

 

Of course right now Fox is implying, and RM has outright said, what really caused the change was Cory's passing but I think that is just a tacky "cover their backsides" move by all parties to try and move focus away from their own piss poor decision making starting with season 3.  

Edited May 12, 2014 by camussie

[heyerchick]

Oh, I firmly believe Murphy screwed FOX royally, to go along with their own inertia. They were polling their viewer panels early in S4 with very leading questions about the New York characters/storylines versus the Lima character/storylines, so no one can say they were ignorant of the issues. I filled in some of those surveys myself. Glee wasn't sideswiped by the unexpected. Murphy drove the show into the ground, over a very long stretch of straight road, with FOX riding shotgun. I would have fired whoever let Murphy extend the school year not just into the next season, but through 3/4 of the next season. And he got the 2 season renewal as the cherry on top. 

Kristin Dos Santos just tweeted that she's about to speak to Lea and Chris at the FOX upfronts, which is odd, because FOX confirmed Chord Overstreet for the event, and didn't mention Chris, as reported upthread by Hollywood Reporter.

ETA: Brian Cantor, on twitter,:

Brian Cantor ‏@cantorpedia  3h
FOX's #Glee scheduling will be very interesting.  Ryan Murphy had been clearly talking about a 24 episode final season, split into 2 parts

 

Brian Cantor ‏@cantorpedia  3h
Since we know that, how can we accept that he thinks it's best creatively if the show ends up with something less? #Glee

 

Brian Cantor ‏@cantorpedia  3h
FOX right now maintaining #Glee officially has full order. But we know Murphy isn't getting 2 parts. And reduction very much possible.

 

Brian Cantor ‏@cantorpedia  3h

@Dosqueen67 Ship has sailed on rtgs boost & #Glee has no future into which FOX can invest. Goal is to burn it off as painlessly as possible

 

[Florinaldo]

Darren Criss (surprise!) will be performing.

No surprise indeed, he's a crowd pleaser.

 

Jane Lynch, Lea & Chord will be there for Glee

Unless Kristin is hallucinating, CC is also attending.

 

Are they popular? Seriously, I see no real proof that Sam and Blaine are popular and should keep being pushed

On a show with such a big cast each individual or sub-group finds some appeal with some part of the audience. Just as others will be disliked by a number of viewers; far from everyone is a fan of HummelBerry for example. It's like a TV smorgasbord, with various choices for everyone.

 

"Mid-season" means just about anything these days, including an emergency replacement option in case some of their other shows flounders (which is likely to happen since their schedule, much like NBC's, looks rather messy). As I recall, Glee was supposed to return mid-season in 2014 for the second half of S5, but eventually came back earlier i.e. just after the Holidays, as usual.

 

As usual, they seem to be floating a few options in front of the journalists present, as if they are negotiating in public (or just want to preserve some uncertainty to keep some life in the buzz and interest with the media for a show with a clear expiry date).

Edited May 12, 2014 by Florinaldo

[indeed]

On a show with such a big cast each individual or sub-group finds some appeal with some part of the audience. Just as others will be disliked by a number of viewers; far from everyone is a fan of HummelBerry for example. It's like a TV smorgasbord, with various choices for everyone.

Obviously, people have their favorites, and even the most unpopular character might find a following. That doesn't make the character(s) truly "popular" to the GA, to the point of show promotion. This is all just speculation right now anyway; I just don't see more Blam as a selling point, if that's what's happening.

[caracas1914]

As I recall, Glee was supposed to return mid-season in 2014 for the second half of S5, but eventually came back earlier i.e. just after the Holidays, as usual.

 

Glee was scheduled to start 2014 in the fall as usual, but had a hiatus planned for the baseball playoffs and an even longer  winter break scheduled where it would not air again until February 25, 2014. With Cory's death, Glee's season premeire was delayed IIRC one or two weeks. Things changed so that it returned in January instead of February but at no point was it ever announced/planned to be a mid season replacement last year as in being off the fall roster. It was scheduled for at least 10 episodes in the fall, which meant that FOX was just going to spread Glee out during the year.

This year is different, Glee is a mid season replacement show, period.

 

The order currently is for 22 but we’re actually going to sit down with Ryan and really talk about how we’re going to end it and figure that out. The advantage of having it on later in the season is that we don’t have to feel the pressure of delivering. We can do them in a row. We’re going to sit down and talk about exactly the best way to end the show and how many [episodes] that is."

-Reilly

 

Translation:  "FUCK NO are we going to give the lowest rated show in our roster, Glee, a full 22 episode order."

Edited May 12, 2014 by caracas1914

[bravelittletoaster]

Well, "popular" is a relative term.  Only 2 million people total can muster enough enthusiasm to turn in each week.  Even assuming each and every one of those 2 million people is a rabid Darren or Chord stan who only has eyes for him, it's still only 2 million people watching a network that everyone in the country gets.  So personally I think any application of the word "popular" here ought to have an "-ish" suffix.

[caracas1914]

Just a wild guess but I'm assuming Ryan Murphy's announced super sized 24 episode Season 6 Glee is off the table.

[bravelittletoaster]

#lolryan

[fakeempress]

My best guess is that there has to some kind of development deal. Ryan agreeing to create a certain number of shows for them over the next few years or summat. It's the only logical explanation I can think of.

 

Not that Glee and logic have ever been mixy things.

Ryan got a development deal with 20th Century Fox TV (not the network but the production company) in 2010. The link says it's a 4-year deal, so almost up. http://www.deadline.com/2010/07/glee-co-creator-ryan-murphy-signs-gigantic-new-deal-with-20th-century-fox-tv/

 

Brad also got a deal with them, in 2013. http://www.deadline.com/2013/10/brad-falchuk-inks-new-overall-deal-with-20th-century-fox-tv/

 

So my guess is that's the bargaining chip. FOX is looking to finish off its Glee business with the least amount of damage.

[caracas1914]

So it's speculated there was a 44 episode commitment in the last 2 year Glee renewal, so it's probably all negotiations to whittle it down on the part of FOX vis a vis RIB. It's a matter of money, since I'm sure Glee wants some compensation based on a full year even if FOX shortens the episode order.

Edited May 12, 2014 by caracas1914

[Florinaldo]

I mentioned I was talking about the second half of S5 and its planned return, which was indeed labeled as part of Fox's midseason's plans as I recalled, some dates eventually changing.

 

The main point is that schedules can change. Glee came back earlier than initially envisioned after the Holidays; other shows' schedules have been reshuffled, which can range from a new day and timeslot to outright cancellation. So even though this show is labeled for now as "midseason", it could pop up earlier if the network scheduling needs suddenly require it. The one thing I would wish is that whatever length the season is, it airs in one continuous block without any sports hiatus. Planning Glee for 2015 solves the baseball problem at least.

 

Whatever the network thinks the number of episodes should be, RM seems to have them over a barrel with the agreement they came to last year (I am surprised as to how candid Reilly was, using only half-coded language). I suppose that he could use this as a bargaining chip to get more favourable conditions for a production deal for other shows, but considering his status and recent successes I doubt that he needs such leverage to generate juicy offers, including from networks or production partners other than Fox.

 

He could hold them to the agreement, with perhaps the 2 episodes missing from the S5 total count being dispensed with, giving both parties enough to call it win-win. We do not know the precise terms of their agreement and how the guarantee was worded, like for example 2 times 22 episodes (which would leave a little space for negotiation).

 

[heyerchick]

Oops, should have gone in the spoilers/speculation thread...

Edited May 12, 2014 by heyerchick

[camussie]

I still shake my head at the people who buy it hook, line, and sinker that the reason they closed the Lima narrative is because Cory passed and had he not passed the show would still have two narratives.  I know that is what RM said but RM lies.  It boggles my mind that people believe that if ratings were at these same levels Fox would be willing to fund two narratives because "that is where Finn's story was supposed to be."   It also boggles my mind that people believe RM and Fox gave 5 actors contracts in order to support Finn's supposed Lima story.  Did they watch the same show I did for the first three seasons? No doubt Finn was a lead but he wasn't enough of a lead for them to keep an entire narrative funded just for him.  Perhaps the only character they would do that for is Rachel.  

 

Nope they kept created and then kept two narratives because they thought there was money to be made from creating a second generation of Glee stars (hell there are even quotes out there by Kevin Reilly and RM about how they were hoping these kids would tour)  They were proven wrong by December 2012 and yet still clung to that notion far longer than they should have.

 

On a related note I keep reading on other boards there is no way Fox could have predicted such a ratings plunge?  Really?  I predicted it last spring.  Anyone paying attention to how badly the split narrative was working predicted it the second it was announced the school year was being stretched out.  

 

As far as RM having Fox over a barrel if he does that is their own fault.  IF they have him a 44 episode guarantee with little to no triggers AFTER he had decided to extend the school year, even though the whole split narrative was clearly not working, then whoever negotiated that deal for Fox is a dang idiot  (which is why I have my doubts it is that cut and dry).  And as I said above I really don't buy that they reason they bought into his vision to the point of giving 5 newbies contracts is because they were invested in Lima being where Finn belongs and a 5 minute Finn/Rachel ending.  

Edited May 13, 2014 by camussie

[caracas1914]

Somehow I don't see Glee with .8 ratings giving Ryan Murphy much "pull" with negotiations if FOX decides to cut Glee's episode order. If Ryan Murphy plays hard ball insisting the Network lose millions of dollar on a full 22 episode order he also gets damaged as far as dealing with network brass.

They will sit down and work something out, and afterwards there will be PR Spin, spin, spin, to try to make it appear both sides "won" and saved face.

Glee is still Ryan Murphy's one and only hit long running major network show. He'll still get developments deals/etc in HW, but I doubt his reputation hasn't taken a hit for running Glee so badly into the ground with his much vaunted McKinley Noob reboot.

[camussie]

That is what I think will happen and a good deal of that spin will either imply or outright say that Glee's circumstances changed due to Cory's passing.  No doubt that plays a part but I would say it is such a small part compared to the great failed experiment of re-populating the choir room.  It honestly makes me wonder how they would have spun this mess if he hadn't have passed.  Obviously those in charge all wish their friend and colleague hadn't passed but that doesn't mean they are above using his passing to scapegoat their own piss poor decision making. 

Edited May 12, 2014 by camussie

[heyerchick]

As is so often the case, Kristin was apparently wrong about Chris being at the upfronts:

 

[caracas1914]

Let's be real, even a shortened season will be crappy filler episodes regardless.

[Lokiberry]

 

Whatever the network thinks the number of episodes should be, RM seems to have them over a barrel with the agreement they came to last year

There's no barrel involved here; networks can and do cut episode orders and outright cancel shows all the time, regardless of any agreements. Farscape was renewed for a fourth and fifth season, and SciFi decided to scrap the fifth season because they felt like it.

 

Glee isn't going to get twenty four episodes next season. It'll get thirteen at best, and will premiere somewhere between January and March, on whatever night Fox has crashed and burned the worst at. Could be Fridays.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Lokiberry

[Florinaldo]

So Kristin was hallucinating as I proposed earlier and CC is not there. I don't think we should read too much in his absence. People can have other legitimate commitments and I don't think he is especially fond of such events, while others are more gregarious with fans and the mayhem. Plus, it's not worth the expense to get a huge number of cast members for a show whose demise is already known and planned. Lynch showed up and posed with her castmates for various pics with sponsors or affiliates and such at the Fox photobooth, so she is still doing some PR duty for the show.

 

As far as RM having Fox over a barrel if he does that is their own fault.

Problem is we do not know the exact terms of his agreement with Fox and what kinds of penalty provisions it includes in case they decide to renege on the deal and cut down the number of episodes. It seemed clear from Reilly's rather candid statements that RM has the upper hand, either because he charmed and convinced them or because someone was asleep at the wheel. But we are unclear, and will remain so, as to the extent of how strong his bargaining position truly is. As the successful producer of an acclaimed and well watched cable series like AHS, with some development deals in the works and a movie coming out that will probably garner a very good critical reception and increase the professional respect for him even if its box office potential is uncertain, RM does not need Fox to survive professionally. He has some leeway to push them if he wishes to. And they either can decide to bite the bullet and pay him whatever he is owed in case of a shorter season, decide that a full season of episodes is better than paying penalties in light of potential sales, or both parties may wish to negotiate some quid pro quo  arrangement.

 

So at this point we can't say for sure how many episodes there will be in S6, until they come to a final agreement. Frustratingly, we will not be party to the backroom details.

[caracas1914]

Sorry double post.

Edited May 13, 2014 by caracas1914

[camussie]

While it could be that it could also be that Fox has some leeway but are making it sound like RM's is in the catbird's seat all so he can save some face.  They might play it that way so as not to sour the working relationship.  I suspect it is more likely a combination of both.  I really have a hard time believing Fox had no outs, triggered by ratings, in the two year extension (and if they didn't whoever signed off on that deal should be promptly fired) but those outs may not be as much of an episode cut as they want.  In the end I will be mightily surprised if there is not a shortened season and I would also be mightily surprised if Fox has to pay RM steep penalties to go that route (although we would never know that).  

Edited May 13, 2014 by camussie

[caracas1914]

The give and take will go both ways. Doubt that Ryan Murphy can challenge FOX and make them concede to all of his demands considering they foot the bills and they can say yea or nay to any future projects. It benefits both sides to "accommodate" each other, at least publicly.

Chris not present at the Upfronts may simply be that FOX doesn't give a shit anymore as far as appearances, Glee ( and Fox) is going to probably take a major hit on ad revenues for Season 6 regardless so it doesn't matter who shows up as far as Glee.

If Glee asked Chris and he begged off if it wasn't absolutely necessary is something I could envision happened.

It's a walking wounded show at this point.

Edited May 13, 2014 by caracas1914

[heyerchick]

I would tend to agree that Kevin Reilly's phrasing was a face-saver for Ryan Murphy rather than a suggestion that he had the upper hand somehow. 

 

This Deadline article from July 2010 seems pertinent: ‘Glee’ Co-Creator Ryan Murphy Signs Giant New Deal With 20th Century Fox TV

 

Now Emmy nominated Ryan Murphy has landed one of the biggest deals ever for a TV writer-producer that spans television, music and theater. I hear he is closing a new 4-year $24-million overall deal with Glee producer 20th Century Fox TV for his services on the Fox series and new development through his Ryan Murphy Prods. The sum includes advances against future profits. Additionally, under the pact, Murphy will share profits from Glee’s music business – album sales and downloads – and will also receive a portion of Glee‘s touring and merchandising revenues. Both clauses are retroactive, covering the show’s red-hot freshman season. Also, Murphy has the option to mount a Glee Broadway musical, on which he also would  be a profit participant. All in all, the new deal could potentially earn Murphy as much as $10 million a year over the next 4 years if Glee continues to grow.

 

 

This suggests that Murphy's deal expires July 2014, so there is obviously going to be room for FOX to manoeuvre. Considering how all the revenue streams have dried up, I'd be very curious to know if those 'future profits' referenced balanced the 'advances' against them. Murphy can secure another advantageous development deal for himself by playing ball with FOX over the reduced season order and other cost-cutting measures. 

Edited May 13, 2014 by heyerchick

[tom87]

I am not putting much into who was at the upfronts.  From what I hear it was disorganzie and by the time Jane, Chord and Lea got there the press line was nearly over . Lea got a few shots in and Jane and Chord skipped it all together. They then were rushed into the after party to take pictures  with advertisors and then were gone. Jane went casue she was NY for NBC upfronts anyway, Lea had to be in NY for L'Oreal so they probley didn't really care who was there or not.

 

Only Darren was there to for the fan fest casue they had him sing.

Edited May 13, 2014 by tom87

[heyerchick]

Chord Overstreet in the press line: "I have no clue what's gonna go on in the last season. I just heard today that we're doing half a season. Which I don't know if that's accurate or not. That was kind of like, 'oh'. So, I mean, really, who really knows." Glee communication with its cast for the win again.

Edited May 13, 2014 by heyerchick

[bravelittletoaster]

If only Heather were there.  The quotes would be delicious.  Remember her "I don't think FOX knows what it's doing" or whatever it was?  Heather in a press line was always popcorn worthy.

[tab19]

I'm torn by this.  On the one, LOLGLEE at the cast's wildly inappropriate responses.  On the other, what the HELL is wrong with FOX or Glee or whoever picked Chord to be at that event and then didn't provide some talking points about the show?  I mean, clearly they're capable of doing that because Lea Michele is always on message.  

 

Sorry, I gather this has been happening forever, but I'm a relatively new fan so I'm freshly stunned by it.

[caracas1914]

In hindsight, Glee should be thankful it even gets (seems most likely) a half season order of 13 episodes.

Just for a point of reference, FOX's "Dads", "Surviving Jack" and "Almost Human" got cancelled this year with higher ratings than Glee. In fact "Almost Human's" finale had a 1.5 Demo which is almost double Glee's last Demo (.80)

FOX had to do something, it was embarrassing and counterproductive to give a full fall slot schedule to a show with an alarming demo in free fall that has not yet hit it's bottom. You can't justify that to your advertisers/sponsors especially when selling ad revenue. Plus there was a very quantifiable measure of how Glee had fallen; the 500-1000 percent decline in ITUNE sales the last 2 years. You can puff up all the "social media" talk you want, a .8 or .9 average Demo is not going to cut it still even with all the Networks overall ratings in decline. Overall Network TV is in big trouble, very few shows these days get over 2.0 in Demos anymore, just a handful. Add to that that critically Glee gets hosed on a regular basis and it's inept writing and poor characterization has become a joke, to be referenced on other shows.

Delaying Glee until mid season is the kiss of death, 8 month delay and with a slashed budget for marketing/promo (LOL, live tweets isn't going to cut it) shows that FOX is minimizing it's losses with Glee.

There is no more buzz, and with I presume a slashed budget that won't allow flights of fancy for RM he's going to lose even more interest on Glee and gravitate to his other projects.

It's a sad situation, but at the same time something entirely of RIB's own doing. I chuckle when I read that Glee's decline was "inevitable". Uh..no..other shows are able to maintain their decline to a manageable level and end on a good , positive note. ("Bones" concluding it's 9th(?)year just got a 1.6 Demo) Glee spent half it's time writing snarky meta towards it's fans. What annoys me is I see rumblings from both RIB and FOX skirting around Cory's death as the reason, no doubt his was a great blow to the show, but the decisions that doomed Glee were made even before Cory died, especially extending the stupid fucking McKinley Noob/Blam school year. Something is clearly not working and you deliberately prolong it...What.The.fuck.

Edited May 13, 2014 by caracas1914

[camussie]

The decisions that doomed Glee were made at the beginning of season three when they decided to set up the show to split the narrative come season 4.  As I have said before high school shows can either follow the Friday Night Lights model where the high school and the people there are the central focus and the students cycle through or they can following the 90210 model where the students are the central focus and we follow them as they move beyond high school.  Glee tried to be both models and it blew up in their faces.  Still they might have recovered, not completely, but perhaps to a point where they weren't going out as an embarrassment like they  will now, if they had cut their losses by the end of last season by shutting down Lima.

 

It also can't be ignored that Glee made the choice about which model they were structured to follow the second the de-emphasized Will's character.  The FNL model works when there is a strong teacher/someone who has ties to the town at the center of the narrative , like Coach and Tami Taylor.  Glee could have had that but from season 2 forward Will was riding the blackboard.  It is all the more stupid because, as I always say, if they truly felt like the Glee club was the heart of the show, they should have  kept the only triple threat in the cast (MM) as one of the leads if not the lead.  

 

I suspect what happened is RM and team, as well as Fox, got caught up in the hype surrounding the tours and wanted to feature the "kids" as much as possible so Will was de-emphasized.  I even get why but then they all show have admitted right then and there that this show was no longer going to be centered on the Glee club once these "kids" graduated.  It was going to be centered on where the kids went next in their lives with the Glee club setting going by the wayside when that happened.  

 

I also suspect that RM, at least, assumed if he "made" these kids stars he could do it for another group.  That was plain hubris.  Not only because the original actors all brought unique talents to the mix but also because there was bound to be some "glee" fatigue no matter what.

 

As far as the rumbling about blaming Cory's death, as you know I completely agree.  It annoys the crap out of me.  

Edited May 13, 2014 by camussie

[Florinaldo]

The four cast members present at the upfronts all did group photo shots with sponsors, affiliates or whatnots; also, some guy named David Tennant even joined them in one of the pictures. So they all performed their duty, as good soldiers and despite the disorganisation which seems recurring at those upfronts. CO not knowing about the possibility of a shorter season is sadly only half surprising; the talent is often the last to know, although it would be common courtesy to inform the regulars as soon as a final decision is made so they can plan for other projects if they are to become available earlier than expected. DC was more deft in deflecting those issues in his interviews yesterday and today.

 

As for the "give and take" someone mentioned above, there is some of that involved in most negotiations, but it is not necessarily symmetrical; one party's "give" is not always equal to that realised by the other party nor can it be compensated fully by an equivalent "take". It depends both on each one's relative initial bargaining strength and the specific provisions they are discussing. We do not know the exact terms of whatever agreement RM had with Fox, nor the true enforceability of any possible penalty clauses (assuming there are some). If they assess possible legal actions or a full season to be wasteful options, that might be incentive enough for an amicable agreement and for RM to settle for something like "future considerations". Who knows: they might even have already resolved the issue and yesterday's statements might just be PR theater for public consumption.

[Lokiberry]

 

We do not know the exact terms of whatever agreement RM had with Fox, nor the true enforceability of any possible penalty clauses (assuming there are some). If they assess possible legal actions or a full season to be wasteful options, that might be incentive enough for an amicable agreement and for RM to settle for something like "future considerations". Who knows: they might even have already resolved the issue and yesterday's statements might just be PR theater for public consumption.

If  the network wants to can a show, it's canned; if the network wants to cut the episode order, it's cut. Anything else is face-saving. Glee has nothing to offer Fox anymore; not ratings, or demos, or critical acclaim, or itune sales, or anything. Ryan Murphy has zero negotiating power over it. Fox is giving a show that is nothing at this point but a money sink a half season to wrap up; that's the consideration they're showing him. I expect he'll take it, and keep his mouth shut, rather than risk damaging his future working relationship with them.

[Florinaldo]

If  the network wants to can a show, it's canned; if the network wants to cut the episode order, it's cut.

Unless there was a formal agreement that gave him protection for his 2 seasons extension, as Reilly's statement appeared to imply. Not quite standard procedure in the industry, but who knows with the sometimes curious relationship RM and the network seem to have.

[tom87]

There has to be some money invovled or frankly I think Fox would  have gone to Ryan a few month ago  and said wrap this up.  They could have finished this show off  by pushing Rachel's opening night to be the  series finale.

[bravelittletoaster]

Contracts are meant to guarantee the presence of the employee.  They don't protect said employee from being shitcanned.  The same applies to entire programs.  FOX signing a two year deal with Glee simply meant Glee had to produce two more seasons for FOX if FOX wanted them.  If they don't, that deal [and Glee] goes the way of the dodo.

[caracas1914]

Yea I doubt Ryan Murphy got an iron clad agreement complete with all the terms stacked solely on his side. The fact that Reilly basically said publicly that the episode order is subject to change speaks volume.

If Glee is hemorrhaging money for FOX they will pull the plug. It's a matter of what is FOX's threshold financially.

Say Glee's finale tonight stays at .8 or even dips to .7 or lower, I would say even a 13 episode order isn't a certainty. Or else they burn off the episodes in the summer.

[fakeempress]

If Glee is hemorrhaging money for FOX they will pull the plug. It's a matter of what is FOX's threshold financially.

Say Glee's finale tonight stays at .8 or even dips to .7 or lower, I would say even a 13 episode order isn't a certainty. Or else they burn off the episodes in the summer.

Exactly. It's not the property it once was. And if by any chance Reilly is completely blind to the demo, the media buyers aren't. Glee's 30s rate has been falling each year, and it was probably no longer bumped up this spring as it was before relative to fall, after Glee was decoupled from  American Idol. FOX can do a number of things including what you mention, it's indeed where their threshold is. 

[Joystickenvy]

I imagine they are hoping some fans will tune back in to see how the whole mess ends, but with so many characters likely being no shows, except for maybe the very last episode, they are probably going to be disappointed. Whatever they decide on, the shorter the better.

[tom87]

I imagine they are hoping some fans will tune back in to see how the whole mess ends, but with so many characters likely being no shows, except for maybe the very last episode, they are probably going to be disappointed. Whatever they decide on, the shorter the better.

They didn't show back up for the 100th episode, and it has everyone.

 

Episode 99 was a competition episode and all New New Directions and it was the lowest to that point.  100 and 101 had old friends and guest stars and it had  not mcuh more than 99.

 

So it does not matter who is featured at this point.

Edited May 13, 2014 by tom87

[caracas1914]

Holy fuck.

FOX Glee - Season Finale 0.6/ 1.92

They lost to fucking CW by .3 points.

Forget 13 episodes, I wouldn't be surprised if FOX cancels it outright now.

A .6 Season finale, are you fucking kidding me???

Edited May 14, 2014 by caracas1914

[heyerchick]

I feel like we should have a moment of silence, heads bowed, or something.

[caracas1914]

Yup, it's over.

What a way to go.

[indeed]

Yeah, that's pretty bad (understatement!). But sure, stick with the Rachel Berry's Awesome Career story as the main focus.

[Coxfires]

The full season is toast, plain and simple. These ratings aren't even ratings, they are a joke.

Nice achievement RIB, tanking lower than the CW isn't given to anyone. Well at least you succeded at something I guess.

[CleoCaesar]

0.6? That is so richly deserved. Congrats, RIB.

[caracas1914]

I do feel bad for the cast and crew but I just don't think FOX is going to let them film 13 more episodes.