Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

[Proteus]

I notice that Marc G just posted a tweet to the cast and didn't include Arthur Darvill. It just looks more and more to me like AD is gone for good.

[MarkHB]

He's been doing various things in London in relation to a touring stage show he's co-written (The Fantastic Mr. Fox).  Beyond that, I can think of one possible job he could have that would want his absolute secrecy about his involvement, but his likely co-star is currently in Hawaii filming Jumanji.

[Proteus]

So it is likely that he is done with Legends then? A shame.

[Sakura12]

[squidprincess]

5 hours ago, Proteus said:

So it is likely that he is done with Legends then? A shame.

I am not sure how you've come to that conclusion at all from what was posted here or anywhere else.

We'll likely know in two weeks or so what the actual storyline role is for the character.  My guess is we won't get a definite answer in the first week.  But week two may let us know whether we'll be seeing Darvill in flashback, hologram, or in a separate storyline somewhere else.

Right now, there's been no indication that he's gone for good, and a number of things that would imply the opposite (the teased "twist", interviews about him being lighter and figuring out who he'll be now).  Sure, there's always the possibility that they will pull a Hawkman again, but it seems far too soon to start getting anxious about that kind of thing.

[CabotCove]

Quote

So it is likely that he is done with Legends then? A shame.

I wouldnt say that. Rip the most annoying character on the show is gone yay!?

[Sakura12]

I found Kendra and Savage more annoying. 

Anyway summary of episode 3. It's interesting that Vixen is a stowaway and wasn't invited on the team. I wonder if Sara will say "Mick's not the murderer, I am" Lol. 

“Shogun” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, LV) (HDTV)

SECRETS AND NEW FOUND POWERS — Nate (Nick Zano) is shocked to learn that he has powers but then accidentally lands himself and Ray (Brandon Routh) in Feudal Japan. After Sara (Caity Lotz) convinces their stowaway Amaya (Maisie Richardson-Sellers), AKA Vixen, that Rory (Dominic Purcell) is not a murderer, they all agree to find Nate and help him master his powers in order to defend the Japanese village from the Shogun and his army of samurai warriors. Meanwhile, Jax (Franz Drameh) and Stein (Victor Garber) stay back to help fix the ship and find a secret compartment but decide not to tell the rest of the team what they learn. Kevin Tancharoen directed the episode written by Phil Klemmer & Grainne Godfree (#203). Original airdate 10/27/2016.

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/10/legends-of-tomorrow-episode-203-shogun.html

 

[Proteus]

17 minutes ago, DCLeague said:

I wouldnt say that. Rip the most annoying character on the show is gone yay!?

Obviously many here don't feel the same.

[CabotCove]

Quote

Obviously many here don't feel the same.

I was just joking, of course i could care less about the character but i get that others do. 

Edited October 7, 2016 by DCLeague

[Proteus]

2 hours ago, squidprincess said:

I am not sure how you've come to that conclusion at all from what was posted here or anywhere else.

We'll likely know in two weeks or so what the actual storyline role is for the character.  My guess is we won't get a definite answer in the first week.  But week two may let us know whether we'll be seeing Darvill in flashback, hologram, or in a separate storyline somewhere else.

Right now, there's been no indication that he's gone for good, and a number of things that would imply the opposite (the teased "twist", interviews about him being lighter and figuring out who he'll be now).  Sure, there's always the possibility that they will pull a Hawkman again, but it seems far too soon to start getting anxious about that kind of thing.

I hope you're right. But if he's not even in Vancouver at all, I fear it means he's done with LOT.

[squidprincess]

I wonder why Vixen thinks Mick is a murderer.  (It's a bit funny that Sara has to say he isn't when he HAS committed murder in the past.)  

I bet that whatever Jax and Martin find will be linked to Rip's fate or plot.

2 hours ago, Proteus said:

I hope you're right. But if he's not even in Vancouver at all, I fear it means he's done with LOT.

I don't think that would prove anything.  If his plot puts him out of commission or separates him for a while, he could have done a lot of filming separately.

He did quite a few convention appearances and the like, so he's obviously not exclusively been in England.

It's always possible that you're right but I think we'd need a lot more information to go on.

Edited October 7, 2016 by squidprincess

[BkWurm1]

On ‎10‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 11:15 AM, Proteus said:

I really hope Rip isn't gone for good.

 

20 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I don't think Rip's gone for good. I just don't think he's a big part of this season. 

I did like that reviews I've seen so far said the team works much better together without the dead weight of the Hawks. 

 

15 hours ago, Proteus said:

I notice that Marc G just posted a tweet to the cast and didn't include Arthur Darvill. It just looks more and more to me like AD is gone for good.

I'm getting the impression that they are phasing him out.  That he'll be around in spirit for most of the season and probably show up to wrap up his storyline and then for whatever reason, we'll say goodbye to him. (If the show is lucky enough to get another season)

  And I think that sucks. 

Yes, jumping the gun a little but all the signs are pointing to it. The way they seem to be using him really matches up to how they used Hawkman.  Even down to how he didn't get included in cast tweets.  That's a big one to me. 

I guess I'm not surprised. I'd always worried that just as an actor based in Britain, he'd be less inclined to stick around and the show runners probably feel he's expendable since his personal story is over (though how hard would it be to give him another storyline) and he's done his part to set up the rest of the cast with what they'd need, but I think his absence will leave a big void, even if I'm totally wrong and he's just missing for a handful of episodes.

The team needed him playing it serious in contrast to the rest of the cast's quirky quirks and habitual rule breaking.  And I loved the vibe between he and Sara, him confiding in her and basically making her his second in charge.  I love Sara but again, I think she works best when she gets to break the rules and how can she do that if she's the one telling everyone what to do? 

I wonder if we are going to see them try to maneuver Ray into the follow the rules guy, but he works so much better as goof ball than anyone we should take serious.  

I had a lot of high hopes for this revamped team (the Hawks and the love triangle both with Savage and Ray were a terrible mistake) but yeah, the lack of Rip even for a while makes me rethink my expectations.   

[Proteus]

On top of losing Wentworth Miller, losing Arthur Darvill is really bad IMO. I'll always watch as long as Caity Lotz is in the show, but this possible casting loss is bad IMO.

[Sakura12]

I wasn't a big fan of Rip. I didn't hate him but he didn't leave much of an impression on me. So it doesn't bother me if he's gone. 

Sara being the leader could show some real character growth for her. She doesn't just have to protect the team anymore she has to lead them. It will definitely be a learning experience for her. This also gives her another trait of comic BC, leading her own team of heroes. All they need to do is put her back in a black outfit. 

[squidprincess]

I still think people are putting far too much significance into a tweet.  Guggenheim didn't include Dominic Purcell in it either.  (Or Victor Garber, but he doesn't seem to have a twitter account.)

The simplest explanation is that Guggenheim's "surprise" probably deals with one or more of the included actors' characters.  They also seem to be more active tweeters than Purcell or Darvill.  (The former's last tweet was in August, the latter seems to tweet about once or twice a month.)

Edited October 7, 2016 by squidprincess

[Sakura12]

Darvill also hasn't been spotted on set for months and appears to be in England now. They reviews all said that one of the team is gone by episode 1. I've seen everyone else in BTS pics for upcoming episodes. 

However as I mentioned, he could've filmed his scenes earlier, they do that for actors that have other engagements. I do think AD will not be as involved this season as he was last season. 

[squidprincess]

As mentioned before, if we go by that season synopsis "the fate of former Captain Rip Hunter" is apparently going to be a significant part of the season.  So I would be far more surprised if we DID get a lot of information at this point.  

They have a pretty good reason to keep him out of BTS images and leaks at this point in time.

I don't know if he's in England right this moment, but the man has been stateside fairly recently, and if we go by convention schedule, he's got appearances in late October and November.  Which doesn't mean he will be filming, but it doesn't mean he isn't either.  

It's certainly no reason to assume that the guy has left the show.  (I honestly don't know how you would measure "season involvement" in this case.  Not until we see exactly where the story is going.)

Edited October 7, 2016 by squidprincess

[Sakura12]

I'm also going by what they said about Sara in season 3 of Arrow. All summer they talked about how Sara had a huge impact on the whole season, she was at SDCC that year too, then she was killed at the end of the first episode. So, yes she was a part of the season, but only in spirit. These writers are famous for recycling storylines and using similar wording to describe it. I've been played by them before so I'm just preparing myself. 

Conventions mean nothing, anyone can do conventions even years after they are no longer on the shows. With AD he was also on the globally popular Doctor Who which he's been doing conventions for way before he got on LoT. 

I'm not saying he's not in the show at all and they may very well be looking for him all season and we'll see a couple of scenes of his storyline. But a lot of this is looking like he's not as prominent a character in this first half of the season as he was last season. And who knows maybe he'll pop up during the crossover since the LoT part of the crossover starts filming today. 

Edited October 7, 2016 by Sakura12

[squidprincess]

I bring up the conventions only because they tend to indicate that he isn't exclusively in England. 

It is of course possible that they're pulling a Sara, I just think it's a bit soon to draw any conclusions either way when so far, we've got so little real data (which is, I think, intentional.)

I will say that I don't get the sense that they have killed him off.  It sounds more like a cliffhanger "is he dead or not?"  Which generally means "not" since the Flarrowverse usually doesn't leave any doubt when they actually kill someone off.

I will, I admit be very disappointed if we don't see Rip at all during the Jonah Hex episode.  The shipper in me thinks that would be a missed opportunity.

Edited October 7, 2016 by squidprincess

[Sakura12]

New promo. Sara being a ninja in feudal Japan, Ray facing a dinosaur. 

Edited October 7, 2016 by Sakura12

[tarotx]

[Sakura12]

Now that screenshot looks like a racially diverse cast of a CW show. Plus we can tell all the white guys apart. 

Ninja's, dinosaurs and zombies. So far this looks like a lot of fun. 

I'm sorry I don't care if Rip's gone or not. Sara's the Captain now. 

[MarkHB]

I'll put this in Media as well... the Extended Trailer with scenes from the crossover!

[squidprincess]

There's more Rip in that trailer than I expected.  I think it's probably all from the first episode, but it still seems like a good sign that his absence is meant to be important (and not permanent).

And of course the trailer itself looks like a lot of fun.

Edited October 7, 2016 by squidprincess

[Sakura12]

Yeah, those Rip scene all look to be from the first episode. He's not in the Japan, zombie, JSA or western footage. Doesn't mean he's not in them, but it's looking like he's not. Also with him looking like he's saying goodbye to them which is reminding me of Doctor Who. I would love it if he said they were fantastic. 

I know a lot of people saw shipping in Rip and Jonah, I'm not sure the writers saw it that way. Jonah does know the Legends so they don't need Rip to see him. 

[kirinan]

I caught a glimpse of Snart, (I think) smiling and turning away, hurray, so I'm glad he'll be in the crossover. It looks interesting, and count me among those who feel like Rip's absence will be a temporary (if slightly extended) thing. No particular reason why I feel so sure; it's just a gut feeling. I would hate to see him leave, in any case. 

[squidprincess]

One of the advance reviewers mentioned a holographic message.  It would seem likely that it is Rip's.  I wonder if it's a specific goodbye, or a more generic "in case of my death" message.  Because that would make a difference going forward.  

[Sakura12]

I guess we'll have to watch to find out what kind of message it is. I saw another review that said Rip has been training Sara to be his successor for the past couple months before they were lost in time. 

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

New promo. Sara being a ninja in feudal Japan, Ray facing a dinosaur. 

 

Ray vs the dinosaur is hilariously bad in a good way. 

[Sakura12]

I think this the best way for them to use a dinosaur. Because it will probably be a quick scene showing the Legends in peril throughout time. 

[FurryFury]

All this Rip talk (and also the comparatively little info we have on Snart's actual LoT screentime) really bum me out. Because I guess they were my favorite male characters on the show - Ray is Ray (can't see him as anything other than comic relief), Mick is actually pretty great, but only when contrasted with other characters, not by himself, and probably in carefully measured doses, Jax is simply boring and while I do like Stein, I still feel like he was much more fun on The Flash. The new dude also doesn't seem to be that interesting, archetype-wise, but I hope he grows on me.

I'm also mourning the loss of Rip/Sara and Sara/Leonard dynamics which were some of my favorites on the show. Sara/Mick is fun too, but not as much... and now I'm thinking they really could give her more scenes with Ray, which is something I just don't want to see at all.

Edited October 7, 2016 by FurryFury

[Sakura12]

Kill Bill!

It also looks like piloting the Waverider got more complicated then pushing a lever down. 

Edited October 7, 2016 by Sakura12

[CabotCove]

The new Trailer is Lit! ?

Looks like Sara is new Captain and Rip is on the outs??

The new Nate guy is growing on me, he too seems to be replacing Rip in some way

Vixen is just as I hoped she would be: awesome

Quote

Ray is Ray (can't see him as anything other than comic relief),

He is more than that Imo, I hope they finally give him his due this season. And Jax too.

Thursday? come to me!

Edited October 8, 2016 by DCLeague

[squidprincess]

I always take creator tweets with a grain of salt, but Sarah Nicole Jones did just promise we'd see plenty of Rip this season. 

He's also apparently been spotted back in Vancouver.  So while it remains to be seen, chances seem pretty good that he'll be back with the cast by the Legends part of the crossover.

[tarotx]

Maybe Rip's back now and he was hiding with Jonah Hex and that is why the Legends had to go back to his time. Which happens to be the episode they shot right before the crossover one they are shooting now. I mean Barry is addressing Rip in that transmission shown in the new trailer. 

[Sakura12]

It could be Sara's the leader until Rip comes back. She was basically the second in command and that's the second's job when the leader is gone. 

[tarotx]

8 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

It could be Sara's the leader until Rip comes back. She was basically the second in command and that's the second's job when the leader is gone. 

Yep and then I except some fun head-butting between the two going into the final stretch :) 

Edited October 9, 2016 by tarotx

[Sakura12]

It could be interesting, it depends if Sara likes being charge, if not she'd gladly hand the reigns back to him. 

Although I think the team respects Sara more than they did Rip. 

[squidprincess]

That's also assuming Rip wants to be in charge.  I mean obviously he'd have some veto power over anything they do, given that it's his ship (and I sincerely doubt that Gideon would take anyone else's orders if Rip doesn't authorize it), but he might well enjoy not being the one in charge of the logistics of the mission.

In the past, he's been supportive of her taking more of a leadership role (for example, having her keep the pilot's chair in Destiny), so perhaps they'll end up in a co-Captain situation.

[Proteus]

6 hours ago, squidprincess said:

I always take creator tweets with a grain of salt, but Sarah Nicole Jones did just promise we'd see plenty of Rip this season. 

He's also apparently been spotted back in Vancouver.  So while it remains to be seen, chances seem pretty good that he'll be back with the cast by the Legends part of the crossover.

Thanks for posting this. I hope it's all true.

[squidprincess]

39 minutes ago, Proteus said:

Thanks for posting this. I hope it's all true.

The tweet is definitely true (I saw it myself.  :-)).  The sighting is word of mouth anecdotal, but seems reasonable.

Edited October 9, 2016 by squidprincess

[Proteus]

29 minutes ago, squidprincess said:

The tweet is definitely true (I saw it myself.  :-)).  The sighting is word of mouth anecdotal, but seems reasonable.

I know. I see the tweet. I just mean I hope she's telling the truth.

[treasaigh]

Considering Rory might be my favorite Doctor Who companion, I have a huge reservoir of good will built up for Arthur Darvill, and I really enjoy the Sara/Rip relationship, so I too hope the tweet is true and Rip is back fit good.  Now if we could just get season 1 Leonard/Captain Cold back, also for the Sara relationship, I'll be a VERY happy camper.  Though I'm prepared to be terribly disappointed on the Leonard front.

[FurryFury]

I actually like the idea of Cold fighting his former teammates/friends. It's just that I'm wary that WM not being on set as much could make it really bare-bones and unfulfilling. Who knows, we may only get "our" Cold back just before he dies for real or something.

Edited October 10, 2016 by FurryFury

[treasaigh]

I'm more worried we're never getting our Cold back, ever.  That being said, he's not the only reason I watch and I'm good with the other stuff, so I'm looking forward to the season.

 

Edited to make it sound less bitter.

Edited October 10, 2016 by tracyly

[kirinan]

I'm torn between what FurryFury and tracyly said. I want to see Cold fight his team, but at the same time, I don't want him to go back to the original Cold from the Flash series. I want the Cold with the flashes (heh) of good. Not too many--but I want the layers that WM was starting to show us. Just enough to know that down deep he's still the guy who sacrificed himself for the people he wouldn't quite admit were his friends. That's what I'm hoping for, and actually, kind of expecting.

Edited October 10, 2016 by kirinan

[Sakura12]

I really wonder what Cold we are getting. Past Leonard or our Leonard with his memory erased or a different Leonard from another Earth. 

If it's past Leonard wouldn't he question why Mick is hanging around a bunch of heroes. 

[treasaigh]

My guess, and it's only a guess, is that's it's past Leonard.  But if that's so why didn't he remember traveling before.  So I take it back.  I'm going with someone slipped in and took Leonard away right before he died, and erased his memory.  That way at the end of the season they can restore his memory.   But I still think they'll grab a past Leonard and hand wave away the timey wimeyness of it.

[squidprincess]

I still think it could work with a present day Leonard, memory intact.  It would make it very interesting to see what would motivate him to join the Legion (I think it would have to be something pretty big), and possibly give him room for second thoughts and conflicted emotions when he's face to face with his old team again (especially Mick, and possibly Sara).

But I agree that past Leonard is probably more likely.

[tarotx]

I think maybe he is past Leonard Snart. He probably will choose to take an amnesia pill before choosing to go back to the past. Or something like that. This way we will have Snart choosing to be good twice. I don't see how he can be present day Snart since he's dead.