Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

[Miss Dee]

Uh-oh. Now I'm getting worried about Stein and Jax....

You know, it's kind of amazing: I LOVE this cast. I don't want anybody to go!!

God, I'm having Sleepy Hollow flashbacks...must remember: not all shows are that one...not all shows are that one.... 

[Proteus]

Purcell posted this. Might be spoilery:

[tofutan]

Man, that makes me hopeful for some quality Heatwave/Cold scenes in the finale. Personally, I wouldn't mind if Mick ran off with still evil Cold for a while before picking the team in the end, mostly because I don't want things to get wrapped up too quickly. I still think a very excellent storyline for Mick would be if he went "undercover" with the Legion or any other badguy group. That way they could make good use of his rogue nature, he would be believable pretending to switch sides and they could show him genuinely being tempted or leave the audience guessing whether he has really turned to the dark side before going back to the time in a vital moment. But I'm just dreaming here. Whatever it is, I kinda hope that things don't just get wrapped up instantly. 

BTW, whatever happened to the supposed big invasion from the planets of the hawks that the time masters were so afraid of which is why they supported Savage? 

[Sakura12]

Well they haven't done fake evil yet, so I would down for that. They can have Mick switch sides to Legion and then before the mid season finale we could see a scene of him giving Sara intel. Because I think she would be the only one that keep the secret that he's turned. They both wouldn't be above kicking each other's asses to keep up appearances either. 

[Proteus]

WM said he'd be filming three LOT episodes and a Flash episode. I wouldn't be surprised if Snart is somehow resurrected with the Spear and then returns to Central City. Maybe Mick will go with him. Who knows.

I think what I hate most about Nate staying is I feel Mick has suffered the most with his presence. For whatever reason, TPTB did a 180 on Micks relationships with both Ray and Amaya so they can instead be Nates best friend and lover. I just don't get why Nate is so beloved by the showrunners. I still can't believe they've hooked up Amaya and Nate. It just shows they learned nothing after Ray and Kendra.

I just hope other relationships aren't dropped so Nate can shine.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Proteus

[Starfish35]

I'm not sure they weren't always going to go with Nate and Amaya.  There was that scene early in the season where her old teammate told her not to shut herself off from love (I forget the wording) and then Nate just happens to walk in right that moment.  It was not subtle.  I don't think Mick and Amaya was ever in the cards as a real possibility, other than just friendship.  But yes, putting her with Nate has put the brakes on even a friendship. 

I do, however, agree about them dumping the Ray/Mick bromance for Ray and Nate.  I did not appreciate that at all.  I'm still annoyed by that actually.  

So I guess, yeah, I'd agree that Mick has been the most affected by Nate being there. :(  Unfortunately.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Starfish35

[Proteus]

You're probably right about Nate and Amaya. Which makes it all the more wrong that they went on and on about Mick falling in love this season and how they know viewers will love the Mick/Amaya relationship. It gives the impression IMO that viewers should expect something between them. Plus the scenes of Snart teasing Mick about him and Amaya being more than friends. I notice after that episode all interaction between Mick and Amaya has ceased.

I loved Ray and Mick together as well. Another relationship that has disappeared so Ray and Nate can bro out together.

[Starfish35]

1 minute ago, Proteus said:

Plus the scenes of Snart teasing Mick about him and Amaya being more than friends. I notice after that episode all interaction between Mick and Amaya has ceased.

Yeah that was really weird.  :(  

[tofutan]

I actually expected that storyline to go that the Mick/Amaya thing is one sided and her hooking up with Nate makes him angry and even more apart from the team, because he holds it as a grudge against them. Another thing that could have excellently fit into a Mick joining the Legion, is it for real or no? storyline. Like I said I remember there being a promo that first showed Nate/Amaya intercut with Mick in the rain, but it seems this was a fake out. Or maybe a storyline like that was planned, but it was cut because the writers thought it would be too petty or because they didn't want dark side Mick when we already have a dark side Rip storyline this season. 

To a lot of this hinges on the quality of material for Mick and Len when Cold comes back, whatever it is their interactions will be like. 

I still get a very poor feel for whether Wentworth wants to come back, like even if he was free to do things, maybe he would rather be on Flash than on Legends. 

Anyway, the arcs that would have made the most sense for Mick to me would have been: 

1.) Mick learns to accept Len's death/Snart is the temptation to be evil again and Mick rejects it. This would have fit with his hallucinations, and him maybe forming a bond with Amaya. Kinda like Sara and Rip had to accept they can't bring Laurel/Rip's family back. 

2.) A Mick with the Legion of Doom storyline, with together with Len or spurned on by Len's vision. Would have fit quite well with a Mick that feels rejected by Amaya. Could end up being a fakeout with Mick switching sides again and choosing the team at a pivotal moment. If Snart is around could have had elements of Mick trying to convince Snart that he used to like the team. 

3.) Snart is real, not a vision, and Mick now has to convince him that Snart wants to join the Legends. So Mick rejects going to evil path with Snart and instead convinces Snart to come to the Legends instead, because Mick's bond with the Legends has grown over the season. 

Some people say that that picture of Went and Dom might me a hint that Mick is wearing the Captain Cold parker in the finale. What is your take on that? To me that would be more suggestive of a "Mick lays Snart down to rest", with him either going to the legion or stayin with the legends. 

Edited March 1, 2017 by tofutan

[Proteus]

I didn't think of that about Mick wearing Snarts jacket. You could be right.

Does anyone think the picture Caity posted should be read into? Like, are those five the team moving forward and everyone else is gone?

[Starfish35]

I didn't notice that he was wearing Snart's jacket.  You might be onto something.  

I don't really think we can read anything into that pic of Caity's though.  That would mean Rip, Amaya, and Stein would all be gone.  

For Stein, that would probably mean that he is dead, because Jax is still there and he can't survive without Jax.  

Edited March 1, 2017 by Starfish35

[tofutan]

I think if Stein were to exit the most logical end would be for him to stay with his non-real daughter. Leaving Stein behind might be appealing to them because the Firestorm special effects are expensive, and they are constantly looking for excuses why Jax and Stein are separated anyway because Firestorm is just too powerful and expensive. 

I could picture Amaya saying goodbye to the team after she has successfully arrested or killed Eobard. 

But generally I agree you don't necessarily have to read too much into it, it could have been that those were the set of people she had scenes with that day. 

[Starfish35]

In order for Stein to stay behind with his daughter, they'd need to come up with a reason how he could survive without Jax.  When Ronnie was killed, he was dying before they found Jax to be his new partner.

[squidprincess]

2 hours ago, Proteus said:

I didn't think of that about Mick wearing Snarts jacket. You could be right.

Does anyone think the picture Caity posted should be read into? Like, are those five the team moving forward and everyone else is gone?

I think you're going to make yourself miserable if you keep trying to read into this kind of thing.  It could just mean that those are the characters involved in the scene that was being filmed.

I remember hearing that Snart will be in an episode or two of the Flash toward the end of the season (presumably after Legends concludes).  I wonder if that will be the real Snart, and thus a clue for how Legends will end, or if it will just be a flashback, hologram, or hallucination again.

Edited March 1, 2017 by squidprincess

[Proteus]

26 minutes ago, squidprincess said:

I think you're going to make yourself miserable if you keep trying to read into this kind of thing.  It could just mean that those are the characters involved in the scene that was being filmed.

 

I was just wondering what others thought.

 

2 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

I didn't notice that he was wearing Snart's jacket.  You might be onto something.  

I don't really think we can read anything into that pic of Caity's though.  That would mean Rip, Amaya, and Stein would all be gone.  

For Stein, that would probably mean that he is dead, because Jax is still there and he can't survive without Jax.  

 

1 hour ago, tofutan said:

I think if Stein were to exit the most logical end would be for him to stay with his non-real daughter. Leaving Stein behind might be appealing to them because the Firestorm special effects are expensive, and they are constantly looking for excuses why Jax and Stein are separated anyway because Firestorm is just too powerful and expensive. 

I could picture Amaya saying goodbye to the team after she has successfully arrested or killed Eobard. 

But generally I agree you don't necessarily have to read too much into it, it could have been that those were the set of people she had scenes with that day. 

Hopefully it doesn't mean anything.

[Miss Dee]

Of all @tofutan's (love that name!) speculations above, #3 would make the most thematic sense and be the most resonant. Snart might reject the offer (for now) because he cant quite believe what Mick says about who he became, which is why he stays in Central City and Mick remains on the Waverider. Hopefully parting as brothers.

And because Barry knows about Snart's previous sacrifice from Ray, he can't help but treat Snart a little differently, a little more gently, than most of the criminal element he comes into contact with because he knows what he can become. Just a different kind of adversary.

[kismet]

I'm not going to speculate anymore who could go and who could stay. Because I think with the exception of Sara (who is staying at all costs, otherwise the show is dumb), there can be a well thought out argument for each character getting the ax or getting saved for next season. I don't think any of them are safe, and yet I think they all are safe. And frankly, its too stressful because I love most of them. And even Nate, I can live with if it means I don't lose the ones I love.

The only characters that have a guarantee out, are the ones that want it. They made arrangements for WM, to completely scale back his involvement. They wrote story arcs around AD & DP's non-availability. So if the actor wants out or needs a break, I think the show will give it.

I do wonder if moving forward, they might leave people in their original times, and pick them up on an as needed basis. Perhaps this is how, Vixen gets to return to have her baby. And Nate is not on every mission next year. It could also allow the show to function more in mini-arcs next season, depending on how many episodes they get. Which honestly, may impact who and how many cast they keep. If they need to bring on new ones or sacrifice more next season.

So, my thought is - it's too soon for them to really decide who stays and who goes. Which makes me think no tragic death of a Legend this season. I actually think they won't even kill a LoD bad guy. I think they will save history and that's that.

Edited March 2, 2017 by kismet

[Lady Calypso]

I'm in the boat where I think the end of this season won't have anyone confirmed to be gone for next season. They're probably all safe for now, but season 3 might have one or two leave during the season itself. It all depends on if they have good plots for next season, and on the actors. I do think Caity, Brandon, and Nick are all safe. Dominic sounds like he's not going anywhere either. Everyone else is kind of up in the air but I do think they recognize that this team works and they probably shouldn't touch it until later next season. I think Arthur Darvill staying is all up to him and if he can stick around. If he can, then I can easily see Rip continuing to be a presence. But at the same time, they may think that Rip's story is done and they could only bring him back for a recurring role. He's the only one I'm truly unsure of. Otherwise, everyone else still have plenty of stories to tell for next season and I don't think anyone will be leaving, at least by the end of this season. 

On another note, I think they could really use Nate better because I like him when he's more serious but a nice balance of serious and dorky, while also being annoyed at Ray. That's the Nate I want to keep seeing.

[Proteus]

http://dclegendstv.com/2017/03/02/legends-of-tomorrow-spoilers-fellowship-of-the-spear/

“Fellowship of the Spear” 

IT’S WAR — The Legends must devise a plan to retrieve the last remaining fragments of the Spear of Destiny from the Legion of Doom.  They find themselves in France at the height of World War I faced with the knowledge that they must destroy the mystical object.  They enlist the help of a soldier by the name of John Ronald Reuel Tolkien (guest star Jack Turner) and find that the Spear is leading them into the heart of the war.  Meanwhile, the team must all resist the temptation of the Spear, and the return of a former teammate. Victor Garber, Brandon Routh, Arthur Darvill, Caity Lotz, Dominic Purcell, Franz Drameh, Nick Zano and Maisie Richardson-Sellers star. Ben Bray directed the episode written by Keto Shimizu & Matthew Maala (#215).  Original airdate 3/21/2017.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Proteus

[Starfish35]

Former teammate = Snart?

[Proteus]

2 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Former teammate = Snart?

Has to be.

[Lokiberry]

Resisting temptation probably explains Laurel's scene. Sara will resist bringing her back.

[Miss Dee]

Now that makes more sense! I couldn't figure out why the media outlets kept saying JRR Tolkien was showing up in the finale when they had an episode titled "Fellowship of the Spear" two episodes before that. I mean...c'mon. 

But if the media outlets are right, that suggests Tolkien shows up in both. That's a significantly bigger role than George Lucas's.

So place your bets: who's going to be the biggest Tolkien nerd? Ray or Nate would be the obvious choices, but I'm going to think outside the box and say Martin Stein. (I'll shirt myself laughing though if it turns out Mick's a big fan of the movies....) 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Miss Dee
Edit movie title.

[MarkHB]

My guess is that Mick got into them via The Hobbit, considering that Bilbo was hired as a thief. 

[Sakura12]

1 hour ago, Miss Dee said:

But if the media outlets are right, that suggests Tolkien shows up in both. That's a significantly bigger role than George Lucas's.

I don't know about that there seems to be a Star Wars mention in almost episode since the show started. I'd say the influence of George Lucas is much bigger on this show. 

Although I did wonder with that episode title if it was going to have something to with Lord of the Rings. 

[Proteus]

MG podcast interview: http://fakenerdguys.libsyn.com

Talks about LOT at the end. He says he can't answer about roster changes for season 3 because that'd spoil the last two episodes of season 2.

He says they have a Jonah Hex story planned for season 3 that people will love.

[squidprincess]

1 hour ago, Proteus said:

MG podcast interview: http://fakenerdguys.libsyn.com

Talks about LOT at the end. He says he can't answer about roster changes for season 3 because that'd spoil the last two episodes of season 2.

He says they have a Jonah Hex story planned for season 3 that people will love.

Ooo.  I hope Rip is actually IN this one.  :-)  That was the biggest disappointment of the season 2 episode for me.

[Starfish35]

2 hours ago, Proteus said:

He says he can't answer about roster changes for season 3 because that'd spoil the last two episodes of season 2.

Ok, that actually does worry me a little. :(

Jonah Hex - I hope so. I didn't love the last one, although the first one was good.  They really need Rip for those stories though.

[Proteus]

I bet we will get a death/departure in the episode before the finale just like last year. I think Rip or Stein. I do think Rip is a goner after this season no matter what though. Sara replacing him as captain sealed his fate IMO.

I remember MG said we'd see a fun loving cocksure Rip last October. I guess that was another thing never to come to fruition.

Knowing that Nate is staying and we are losing other people has really brought me down about this show.

[squidprincess]

2 hours ago, Proteus said:

I bet we will get a death/departure in the episode before the finale just like last year. I think Rip or Stein. I do think Rip is a goner after this season no matter what though. Sara replacing him as captain sealed his fate IMO.

I remember MG said we'd see a fun loving cocksure Rip last October. I guess that was another thing never to come to fruition.

Knowing that Nate is staying and we are losing other people has really brought me down about this show.

I have no idea why you would decide that Sara as Captain would seal Rip's fate when that was planned since they knew he was going to be gone for Broadchurch.  If they were planning to ditch Rip that long ago, why even bring him back?  He'd gotten a fairly nice self-sacrificing exit.

First, you're assuming that Sara stays Captain, which is not remotely guaranteed.  Then you're assuming that Rip has no storyline possibility if she does, which is completely untrue.  He's completely wrapped up in the metaplot.  He's the character with a past that involves both the Spear of Destiny, the JSA, and Eobard Thawne.  They've given him a substantial amount of new angst to work through with his villain plot.  There are a number of directions this can go in: is he more driven?  Does he want revenge?  Does this destroy his confidence?  Is it setting up a romance?

And when we contemplate next season: well, we don't know what the metaplot will be obviously.  But there's always going to be room for an experienced time traveler who can arguably have past connections to any character in the universe that they want.  Rip knows the JSA.  He knows Jonah Hex.  He knows future Barry Allen.  Maybe they want him to know J'onn J'onnz next season.   No other character on the show has as much open potential when it comes to establishing connections and metaplot.

(And besides, my guess is that if Berlanti's Booster Gold movie actually happens, and Legends is still on the air, they're not going to be able to resist bringing a version of the character in.  And that would be kind of silly if they've already written out his son.  :-P)

-

I have to admit, I'm still leaning toward Stein.  Victor Garber has always seemed a bit unhappy on the show to me.  And it would fit with both the spoilers that we'll see Ronnie Raymond again on the Flash (Martin could always merge with Ronnie, he wouldn't need to remain with Jax), and the way Jax's role as mechanic and command-rank crewman have been emphasized lately.

They seem to be putting a lot of effort in establishing Jax's role beyond Firestorm, which would make a lot of sense if Firestorm is not in the picture anymore.

Edited March 3, 2017 by squidprincess

[Maverick]

8 hours ago, Proteus said:

I remember MG said we'd see a fun loving cocksure Rip last October. I guess that was another thing never to come to fruition.

 It seems like there was some plan for season 2 that changed pretty dramatically.  The way he appeared so dramatically, wasn't used in the first episode and then used for only one episode after that was just strange.  The whole reason for his being in the season finale was "explained" in a throwaway line ("He told us not to go to 1942 and vanished").  M'kay, that was a great payoff to a cliffhanger.  It's pretty obvious there was supposed to be a story there about why Mick would have sent Rex to that at that point in time (and how they even knew each other) and that Rex was supposed to have a bigger role.  I don't know if they didn't know about Darvil's schedule when they wrote the season finale, if the Vixen actress not wanting to do the show changed things or if they just came with a different idea of doing the Legion of Doom they wanted to do instead but it definitely feels like a disconnect between the 2.  

[kismet]

9 hours ago, squidprincess said:

I have to admit, I'm still leaning toward Stein.  Victor Garber has always seemed a bit unhappy on the show to me.  And it would fit with both the spoilers that we'll see Ronnie Raymond again on the Flash (Martin could always merge with Ronnie, he wouldn't need to remain with Jax), and the way Jax's role as mechanic and command-rank crewman have been emphasized lately.

They seem to be putting a lot of effort in establishing Jax's role beyond Firestorm, which would make a lot of sense if Firestorm is not in the picture anymore.

 

What makes you say that? I've never seen or heard that VG was not happy on the show. Perhaps he might want more free time off the show, which can be arranged similar to how the gave AD off. But he seems content when he does make a blip in social media or interviews. He seems to stay out of the spotlight, so it's hard to make an assessment of what he actually feels.

I also think that he likes his pseudo-paternal role he has been given.

I don't put a lot into them developing Jax outside of Firestorm because he had literally nothing to do last season outside of the ridiculous love triangle. So at least this year they decided to give him some development as opposed to sticking him in a dead end romance.

Edited March 4, 2017 by kismet

[squidprincess]

I admit, most of my impression came from season one, not necessarily season two.  But there were a number of interviews after the finale where he was pretty critical of the show and I got the impression, possibly unfairly, that he wasn't very happy with the general experience.  They've made a lot of changes in season two, so perhaps his particular concerns were met.  He may be happier now than he seemed then.

Edited March 4, 2017 by squidprincess

[Proteus]

14 hours ago, squidprincess said:

I have no idea why you would decide that Sara as Captain would seal Rip's fate when that was planned since they knew he was going to be gone for Broadchurch.  If they were planning to ditch Rip that long ago, why even bring him back?  He'd gotten a fairly nice self-sacrificing exit.

First, you're assuming that Sara stays Captain, which is not remotely guaranteed.  Then you're assuming that Rip has no storyline possibility if she does, which is completely untrue.  He's completely wrapped up in the metaplot.  He's the character with a past that involves both the Spear of Destiny, the JSA, and Eobard Thawne.  They've given him a substantial amount of new angst to work through with his villain plot.  There are a number of directions this can go in: is he more driven?  Does he want revenge?  Does this destroy his confidence?  Is it setting up a romance?

And when we contemplate next season: well, we don't know what the metaplot will be obviously.  But there's always going to be room for an experienced time traveler who can arguably have past connections to any character in the universe that they want.  Rip knows the JSA.  He knows Jonah Hex.  He knows future Barry Allen.  Maybe they want him to know J'onn J'onnz next season.   No other character on the show has as much open potential when it comes to establishing connections and metaplot.

(And besides, my guess is that if Berlanti's Booster Gold movie actually happens, and Legends is still on the air, they're not going to be able to resist bringing a version of the character in.  And that would be kind of silly if they've already written out his son.  :-P)

-

 

I'm talking about next season. Rip has story to play out for the rest of this season but after everything is dealt with I don't see him having a role moving forward. The likelihood of him ever being captain again is slim. TPTB said they didn't like Rip as leader and love Sara in that role. So I don't see Rip ever being captain again. 

After Rip and Saras squabble over whose leader, I would guess he'll hand over leadership to her and that'll be that.

Rip is my second favorite character. I don't want AD to leave. I just see the writing on the wall. It was obvious to me the Hawks would leave last season and I see the same happening with Rip.

IF the show actually tried/tries to find a non leadership role for Rip on the Waverider I would feel better. But I don't know if they care enough about Rip to keep writing for him. I have no faith in MG and company anymore. Especially since they're keeping Nate. 

I had hopes we'd see a non burdened Rip develop since he was no longer leader. That's where I thought they might go with him based on MGs earlier comments about us seeing this year a Rip who is a cocksure time traveler. 

The pic CL posted bothers me. I hope it doesn't mean anything but I wouldn't be surprised if those five are the team moving forward and we get three newbies next year. It's just odd that AD, VG, and MRS weren't there.

I hope I'm wrong. I really do. I would have rather Rip not have come back at all just to be written out again. It's why I couldn't care a less about Snarts return. The show keeps losing good leading men and we are stuck with Nate.

[squidprincess]

Rip has just as much of a potential role as any other character going forward.  We don't know what the metaplot is likely to be, obviously, but there are a lot of possibilities.

If they decide for example to deal with the Thanagarians, Rip is the only one who knows that invasion is happening or knows what they are.  If they decide to use the remnants of the Time Masters, then that would be a conflict with Rip's former family.  If they use time pirates...Rip has a past with them too.  And if the metaplot is something new, they will probably still find a way to tie it to Rip like they did with the spear.

This is a time travel show and Rip is the time travel character (since 1960).  There are years of material to exploit if they run out of their own ideas.

Caity Lotz posted an image from her last scene filmed.  That is not the last scene aired.  Not every character is in every scene.  (Purcell posted one from his last filmed scene and it was with Snart.)

It is not a guarantee obviously.  But it is very unlikely that they're ditching him after everything they've already done to keep him.

Maybe the best thing is to keep an eye on Darvill's twitter.  If he lists his hometown as London, instead of London/Vancouver, then I would get a little nervous.

[Featherhat]

7 hours ago, squidprincess said:

I admit, most of my impression came from season one, not necessarily season two.  But there were a number of interviews after the finale where he was pretty critical of the show and I got the impression, possibly unfairly, that he wasn't very happy with the general experience.  They've made a lot of changes in season two, so perhaps his particular concerns were met.  He may be happier now than he seemed then.

I did wonder when they brought in Lily if Stein/VG was going to retire or die heroically. I don't know. I agree that I don't think BG sounded ecstatic with his new role but he has been in the "firestorm role" since 2014 and signed on as an ensemble. An lets not forget Spydaddy was good TV by hardly less cheesy for 5 seasons. He has got a more emotional storyline these season, both in individual episodes "Stein signs Edelwiess to Nazi and is captured by them" to his growing physic companionship with Jax and then Lily". He's got plenty of arcs this season and I think he's a great character, but if he really does want to leave as opposed to speculation good luck to him. I hope BR doesn't heave because as much as I thought him annoying in Arrow I like him so much more here. 2-7 minutes of screentime probably wasn't what he though he was going to get when he first signed up for an Arrow/Iron Man Spin Off but its regular work and he's showing his comic chops again.

[Sakura12]

I wonder if they created Lily Stein to take over the role of the other half of Firestorm in case VG wants to leave. They can make up some BS science and say he passed down whatever it Firestorm has and she merges with Jax to become the new Firestorm. 

[kismet]

9 hours ago, squidprincess said:

I admit, most of my impression came from season one, not necessarily season two.  But there were a number of interviews after the finale where he was pretty critical of the show and I got the impression, possibly unfairly, that he wasn't very happy with the general experience.  They've made a lot of changes in season two, so perhaps his particular concerns were met.  He may be happier now than he seemed then.

Thanks for responding. I just think VG is a talented and extremely experienced actor, so I don't find his critical analysis of s1 to be disconcerting. It's a good thing, if you're not critical about your work how do you improve?

I enjoy the show, but there was a lot to be critical about s1 from a writing perspective. It was an entertaining show, but the writing was not spectacular. There is no shame in being critical, if there are legitimate reasons.  And I really think the writing has improved this season, so perhaps his interviews helped. VG is an accomplished actor with decades of experience, if he finds some aspects wonky, the writers would be smart to investigate if those areas could be improved.

1 hour ago, Featherhat said:

I did wonder when they brought in Lily if Stein/VG was going to retire or die heroically. I don't know. I agree that I don't think BG sounded ecstatic with his new role but he has been in the "firestorm role" since 2014 and signed on as an ensemble. An lets not forget Spydaddy was good TV by hardly less cheesy for 5 seasons. He has got a more emotional storyline these season, both in individual episodes "Stein signs Edelwiess to Nazi and is captured by them" to his growing physic companionship with Jax and then Lily". He's got plenty of arcs this season and I think he's a great character, but if he really does want to leave as opposed to speculation good luck to him. I hope BR doesn't heave because as much as I thought him annoying in Arrow I like him so much more here. 2-7 minutes of screentime probably wasn't what he though he was going to get when he first signed up for an Arrow/Iron Man Spin Off but its regular work and he's showing his comic chops again.

I think they brought in Lily to give Stein an emotional arc & depth. And it worked. If that was what VG wanted then kudos to him. He know that emotional depths and arcs give characters depth. On a show like LoT its very easy to stay shallow & on the surface while servicing the plot to save whatever. VG is smart enough to know that shows & characters like that, who lack depth can burn out quickly.

I loved him as SpyDaddy, and he wanted to recreate that even in the smallest amount, I an extremely grateful. Every show has its bit of cheese, especially if they have repetitive missions due to the nature of their jobs. On Alias, you needed the cheesy in-mission snafus, one-liners or eye glares/rolls to spice up the routine behaviors of spy missions. Just like LoT needs those similar moments to help their weekly save the timeline plot. It also helps to create a continuity of charm to the missions, that helps with character development & endear audiences.

If VG wants to leave, then yes the show has created a way to substitute in Lily. But I don't think the show is wanting to or setting up Stein to be leaving. His departure would be coming from VG's desire to go, not the shows. And it's hard to say what his desire is because he is both private & professional.

I do think by giving him Lily & Jax more freedom outside of Firestorm, they have provided solid in-show reasons & narratives. So if VG wants time off for another project, he can be off the ship for a few weeks without questioning his absence. I would miss him, but then again VG in other projects would not be the worst thing, especially if he returns to LoT when his "Lily Vacation" is up.

[MarkHB]

1 hour ago, kismet said:

So if VG wants time off for another project, he can be off the ship for a few weeks without questioning his absence.

Particularly since Sara too often decides to assign him and Jax missions that keep them far apart for no better reason than to save the producers money or make the episode fill 48 minutes. 

[kismet]

I'm probably like the worst comic book story viewer, because I never miss or even notice that Firestorm never really suits up. Likewise, I never need to see Nate go Steel. I do think Amaya's abilities are cool, although wish it didn't include her wearing that ugly necklace all the time. And well Ray's suit is cute when it's very small or big, I like when it's used to produce humor.

I guess for me, I know these people have superhero suits and such, I just don't feel compelled to see them use them on a weekly basis. It loses some of its cool for me and burns through the budget. I'd rather just see quality executed fight scenes sans CGI special skills. Or intelligent masterplans to take down the enemy and stop their plan without the need for body doubles. I don't need to see Firestorm flying in fire every week to know that they have that power to kick ass with. If RP has to not wear his suit one week I'm ok with it. If Amaya leaves her necklace at home, I know she still has mad fighting skills. And if Nate gets suckered punch, well that might be enjoyable.

I guess I see their actions & behaviors as superheroic with or without their suits, so I don't need them to comic book out every week in their shiny CGI grandness.

[Miss Dee]

That's where I am. I'll happily forego seeing all the CGI and get that only a few times per season if it means compelling character arcs, stellar dialogue and well-crafted plotting. I wouldn't give LoT an A on all that, but at least they're solid B students now and not in danger of flunking out like they were last season.

[Starfish35]

I wish we could imbed tweets on mobile.  But anyway, apparently according to one of the Vancouver paparazzi, Katie Cassidy only filmed one scene for Legends, and it was a vision scene with Sara. Not terribly surprising.

https://mobile.twitter.com/pursuit23/status/838849257817812993

[MarkHB]

15 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

I wish we could imbed tweets on mobile.  But anyway, apparently according to one of the Vancouver paparazzi, Katie Cassidy only filmed one scene for Legends, and it was a vision scene with Sara. Not terribly surprising.

https://mobile.twitter.com/pursuit23/status/838849257817812993

I believe if you're using the Twitter app,  you can use "Copy link to Tweet"  to get a URL that will embed. 

[Starfish35]

No, I don't have a Twitter account.

[squidprincess]

I think I'm one of the few fans who actually likes Laurel, so I'm sad to hear that.  I would have liked to see Sara get a bit more resolution to her story arc than just a quick vision.  (Even though I actually enjoyed the vision of Miranda and Jonas in the first season's finale.)

[Primal Slayer]

[Starfish35]

Had a wild thought.  There's been speculation about Stein leaving the show, but right now, unless he dies, he and Jax can't actually be separated for very long.  So that seems to imply that killing him off might be the only way that he could be written but Jax stay.

But what if Stein is somehow no longer part of Firestorm as some sort of consequence of using the Spear? That would break the connection between him and Jax without having to kill him off.  

Personally, I would miss him if he left, but I do think he might be one of the more likely candidates to leave, if VG wanted out.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Starfish35

[Lokiberry]

39 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Had a wild thought.  There's been speculation about Stein leaving the show, but right now, unless he dies, he and Jax can't actually be separated for very long.  So that seems to imply that killing him off might be the only way that he could be written but Jax stay.

But what if Stein is somehow no longer part of Firestorm as some sort of consequence of using the Spear? That would break the connection between him and Jax without having to kill him off.  

Personally, I would miss him if he left, but I do think he might be one of the more likely candidates to leave, if VG wanted out.

Yeah, this episode made me think Stein's going to be leaving soon (dead or alive), They've barely used Firestorm this season, while at the same time making a lot of use of Jax as engineer and second in command to Sara.  Stein's sciencing can be done by Ray, or hilariously enough, Mick.

As of right now, I think Stein and Amaya are leaving. If I'm lucky Nate will go too: "I have to break off this "thing" we're exploring because it will change history, but I'll tell her tomorrow so I can get laid tonight". So, so gross. Whether Ray stays or not is iffy because he's so superficially like Nate (he's not a creepy douchebro).

That leaves Mick and Rip; Sara's obviously going nowhere. Mick leaves if DP wants to go. The character is really entertaining, and there's nobody else on the ship even remotely like him. As for Rip, this episode strengthened his ties to the ship by giving him a mildly inappropriate obsession with his AI (by 2017 standards that is, who knows how they roll in the future). There's still the matter of who's captain, however, and I think how that gets resolved will be very telling. Personally, I think they'd be fools to get rid of AD. The writing in the flarrowverse can be (how do i put this delicately?) such bat guano that they need strong actors to sell it; but I'm not the one making the decisions.

[Proteus]

“Doomworld” — (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)

BETRAYALS — After obtaining the Spear of Destiny, the Legion of Doom rewrites reality, leaving the Legends changed, perhaps forever.  Frightfully, the Legends’ and the world’s hopes rest with Rory (Dominic Purcell), but being the “hero” is not easy for him.   Meanwhile, there is tension within the Legion of Doom and the reason why the Spear of Destiny needs to be destroyed is revealed

[tofutan]

It amuses me and makes me strangely happy that the Legends are still woefully incompetent at their main mission (in season 1 when they revealed that most of what they had done had actually helped Savage and no in season 2 the Legion absolutely being successful at getting their hand on the spear and rewriting reality). 

That said, I'm very excited that it will be all down to Mick.