All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[Palimelon]

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Why? Carter understands how mental health works and knows that what happened to Dennis wasn't because Benton was a meanie. Dennis wasn't fit to be a surgeon, and he needed psychiatric help. 

Blaming Benton for Dennnis is silly.

Carter did seem to have some blame for Dennis' death on Benton and himself. Or at least some guilt over it.

 

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This isn't about "teaching." This is life and death in a fucking hospital. You don't get coddled.

But isn't the whole point of the program that they are in to "teach" them? There was a huge difference in the way people like Mark and Susan dealt with Carter when he was learning versus how Carter dealt with Lucy. Carter could have been a bit more like them.

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Still, I will compare it to Elizabeth because both were very concerned with the safety of their child.  Heck even Luka snapped at Abby and she conceded. Weaver calmly spoke with Elizabeth and Mark and they both conceded. Personally I don't see the issue with either one. Just all three were parents, scared. 

Exactly.

Edited August 11 by Palimelon

[Notabug]

20 hours ago, Mrsmaul2021 said:

If we are going to tell this stuff, at least be fair add all of the context. The drug was experimental. So who can blame her? Also, baby Joe did perf (spontaneous intestinal perforation) they never said if the drug caused it, so her reluctance was valid. 

I think the poster was referring to Abby pulling her IV and refusing to get steroids to help mature the baby's lungs before he was delivered which had nothing to do with later events in the NICU.  As it turned out, she needed immediate delivery so the steroids didn't have time to work.  Surely as a physician, especially one who purportedly excelled in her neonatology rotation, Abby was well aware that the huge benefits of steroids in preventing newborn RDS far outweigh the potential risks.  This has been standard treatment for impending prematurity for40 years.  Magnesium sulfate has been around longer than that and more recent studies have shown that it is actually neuroprotective and preterm babies who receive it in utero are less likely to have cerebral palsy and other neurologic complications.  This was becoming widely known at the time the show aired.

18 hours ago, Palimelon said:

Carter did seem to have some blame for Dennis' death on Benton and himself. Or at least some guilt over it.

 

But isn't the whole point of the program that they are in to "teach" them? There was a huge difference in the way people like Mark and Susan dealt with Carter when he was learning versus how Carter dealt with Lucy. Carter could have been a bit more like them.

Exactly.

I think Carter was mainly guilty that he had been so preoccupied with his own life that he hadn't realized how much Gant was struggling and felt Peter could've paid more attention, too. That part of Peter's job as senior resident was to make sure Gant was coping ok. Not that either one drove him to suicide, just that there were signs that neither one of them acted on.  Very understandable.

Edited August 12 by Notabug

[Mrsmaul2021]

18 minutes ago, Notabug said:

 

I think Carter was mainly guilty that he had been so preoccupied with his own life that he hadn't realized how much Gant was struggling and felt Peter could've paid more attention, too. That part of Peter's job as senior resident was to make sure Gant was coping ok. Not that either one drove him to suicide, just that there were signs that neither one of them acted on.  Very understandable.

I always argue that Carter nor Benton have anything to feel guilty about, though feeling guilty is only normal.  Carter was not Gant's keeper. That was his friend. Gant was an adult. Benton rode Carter just as hard but Carter actually learned from him and managed to get through.  Gant is an example of somebody who didn't fit in that ER. He could have done like Carter, change specialties, though he may have had mental issues too.  He may have grown up sheltered. he took way too much to heart. I'm really babbling now. 😆

[CrazyInAlabama]

I agree.  I think Gant was a sensitive person, who took every criticism to heart, and it hurt him.   ER was simply a bad rotation for him.   

[Notabug]

1 hour ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I agree.  I think Gant was a sensitive person, who took every criticism to heart, and it hurt him.   ER was simply a bad rotation for him.   

Just a small point, Gant was an intern in General Surgery, not ER.  He was doing a rotation in Pediatric Surgery with Carter as his fellow intern, Benton as the senior resident on service and Abby Keaton as his attending.  In real life, there would be multiple pediatric general surgeons serving as attending as the residents cared for their patients.

Also, Gant seemingly had other issues besides the surgical service that were weighing on him.  His longtime girlfriend had broken up with him and he was spending his first Christmas away from home.  Little stuff that adds up, apart from the job.

Edited August 13 by Notabug

[CrazyInAlabama]

It's been so long since I watched it, apparently I forgot a lot.   Thanks for the correction. 

 

[Mrsmaul2021]

I like Abby but I understand why some do not. On the other hand, the outright vitriol for Kem and baffling to me. I was literally kicked out of a Facebook group for defending her. 🤣

[Ceindreadh]

On 8/10/2024 at 10:40 PM, Dr.OO7 said:

There's a hilarious little fanfic where Luka gives Carter the bill for his broken fish tank and all the related expenses. Carter asks why he's being given the bill when Abby was the one who broke it. Luka just shrugs and says that he knew Abby would get him to pay for it anyway, so he's just cutting to the chase. 😄

I think that was one of my 'Snippet' fics back in the day.  (I also included 'little fishy oxygen tanks' for future emergencies)

[Driad]

28 minutes ago, Ceindreadh said:

I think that was one of my 'Snippet' fics back in the day. 

Is it on line somewhere, so we can read it?

[Cloud9Shopper]

Please share it if it still exists! 

[Dr.OO7]

5 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

think that was one of my 'Snippet' fics back in the day.  (I also included 'little fishy oxygen tanks' for future emergencies)

Yes, it was. I can't seem to find it, unfortunately.

[Dr.OO7]

On 8/11/2024 at 4:36 PM, Notabug said:

PTSD?  He still felt guilty about the deaths of his wife and kids and decided he needed to punish himself further by hooking up with the worst possible babymama/wife he could find?

People desperately looking for a Replacement Goldfish will ignore all signs that the goldfish in question is either wholly unsuitable or even if technically not, still nothing like the original version.

[Ceindreadh]

20 hours ago, Driad said:

Is it on line somewhere, so we can read it?

 

18 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Please share it if it still exists! 

 

16 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

Yes, it was. I can't seem to find it, unfortunately.

 

Just checked, and it's still up at fanfiction.net

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/142094/1/Snippets-from-the-ER

The fishy oxygen tanks were in chapter 11.

Enjoy!

[Cloud9Shopper]

Thanks for sharing! 

I wish there were more of an interest in ER fanfic today, but I know that happens to old fandoms. Although maybe if enough people are interested in reminiscing, reading and/or writing we could start a thread! 

[Dr.OO7]

Some really wonderful stuff was put out in the late '90's/early '00's.

And Jordan Turner (she used to write all those naughty Doug & Carol stories) put all of hers on Archive Of Our Own.

[Dr.OO7]

Here's the link to the story. I think it's the third one from the beginning.

https://m.fanfiction.net/s/142094/11/

[Dr.OO7]

On 8/13/2024 at 2:58 PM, Mrsmaul2021 said:

On the other hand, the outright vitriol for Kem and baffling to me. I was literally kicked out of a Facebook group for defending her. 🤣

I don't get it either. I thought she was fine before the stillbirth and afterwards, I think she sadly sunk into a deep depression that she was simply never able to pull herself out of even if she ever sought professional help. As someone who's battled depression since I was 10, I can completely empathize. Sometimes all the therapy in the world isn't enough.

[Ceindreadh]

19 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

I don't get it either. I thought she was fine before the stillbirth and afterwards, I think she sadly sunk into a deep depression that she was simply never able to pull herself out of even if she ever sought professional help. As someone who's battled depression since I was 10, I can completely empathize. Sometimes all the therapy in the world isn't enough.

I'm pretty sure the Kem hate was led by the Carbys who couldn't bear the thought of Carter being with anybody other than Abby.  

 

Edited August 19 by Ceindreadh
wanted to reword my reply.

[Palimelon]

I don't think Abby lives rent free inside that many people's heads. At least, I'd like to think she doesn't.

[threebluestars]

I couldn't stand Kem because I shipped Carter with Debbie the Red Cross worker.

[Notabug]

17 hours ago, Palimelon said:

I don't think Abby lives rent free inside that many people's heads. At least, I'd like to think she doesn't.

Back in the day, anyway, there were a lot of people out there who felt very protective of Abby and any storyline that didn't favor her was reviled.  They hated that Carter broke it off in The Letter (which, surely she didn't need it spelled out i writing that the relationship was dead at that point).  Then, when he moved on fairly quickly and got together with Kem and impregnated her almost immediately, they were out there with their torches and pitchforks.  It should've been Abby having Carter's baby!  How dare Kem get what Abby deserved?

It was definitely a thing that there were people who rooted for Abby as though she were a real person.  I imagine there still are.

[Palimelon]

Who are all these people and what sites were they on? Plus it almost sounds like they could also be Carter fans who didn't approve of him moving on.

Granted, I thought Abby worked better with Luka (the actors had better chemistry together, though I will admit Carter and Abby weren't the black holes of chemistry we got with Mark/Lizzie and Peter/Cleo).

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It was definitely a thing that there were people who rooted for Abby as though she were a real person.

So basically like fans of a certain nature for any TV character...whether for or against a character.

[Cloud9Shopper]

10 hours ago, threebluestars said:

I couldn't stand Kem because I shipped Carter with Debbie the Red Cross worker.

Kem to me was always just boring and lacked any kind of personality, and I hated how she strung along Carter for years. It had nothing to do with who he did or didn’t end up with. (I actually think his best love interest was Anna but that doesn’t make me hate Kem.) 

[Notabug]

6 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Kem to me was always just boring and lacked any kind of personality, and I hated how she strung along Carter for years. It had nothing to do with who he did or didn’t end up with. (I actually think his best love interest was Anna but that doesn’t make me hate Kem.) 

For me, Anna was by far the best option for Carter and certainly the most interesting character.  I wish Maria Bello had stayed with the show.

[Mrsmaul2021]

20 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

I'm pretty sure the Kem hate was led by the Carbys who couldn't bear the thought of Carter being with anybody other than Abby.  

 

 

 

I'm 99.99% positive that is the case. Also, I've noticed SOME(some, not all) Abby haters hate the fact that she ended up with Luka and not Carter.  

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Kem to me was always just boring and lacked any kind of personality, and I hated how she strung along Carter for years. It had nothing to do with who he did or didn’t end up with. (I actually think his best love interest was Anna but that doesn’t make me hate Kem.) 

 

 

I chalk this up to the writing and not Kem. It really did not make sense by season 15 the writers still were doing the "will they, won't they" with Kem and Carter.  Either put them together or break them up. The needless drama was not that interesting. 

[Notabug]

2 hours ago, Mrsmaul2021 said:

 

 

I'm 99.99% positive that is the case. Also, I've noticed SOME(some, not all) Abby haters hate the fact that she ended up with Luka and not Carter.  

 

 

I chalk this up to the writing and not Kem. It really did not make sense by season 15 the writers still were doing the "will they, won't they" with Kem and Carter.  Either put them together or break them up. The needless drama was not that interesting. 

As one of the aforementioned 'Abby haters', I didn't like her with either one of them.  It seemed no amount of love and attention was going to improve her terrible attitude and I didn't think anyone should have to be in a marriage with someone so self involved.  The Carbys, of course, wanted her with Carter (because he paid her bills no questions asked?  Because he never told that her stupid plans to save her family were doomed to fail?  Because he was more obviously pining for her when they were apart? Because Carter was a willing participant in stupid juvenile hijinks like flattening her ex husband's tires or breaking into Luka's place and busting the fish tank?) .  Take your pick.  Most Carbys seemed to be Abby fans first and foremost; not Abby haters.

Edited August 20 by Notabug

[ch1]

I’ll never understand the writers choice in season 15 with Carter and Kem.  What purpose did it serve to not just show them in a better place after losing the baby?  The show was ending would it had killed them to give Carter some kind of happiness? Instead they showed two people beating a dead horse.

I also believe that Carter was screwed when Anna left.  I really think they could have been one of the best couples on the show if they were given a chance. 

[Mrsmaul2021]

1 hour ago, Notabug said:

As one of the aforementioned 'Abby haters', I didn't like her with either one of them.  It seemed no amount of love and attention was going to improve her terrible attitude and I didn't think anyone should have to be in a marriage with someone so self involved.  The Carbys, of course, wanted her with Carter (because he paid her bills no questions asked?  Because he never told that her stupid plans to save her family were doomed to fail?  Because he was more obviously pining for her when they were apart? Because Carter was a willing participant in stupid juvenile hijinks like flattening her ex husband's tires or breaking into Luka's place and busting the fish tank?) .  Take your pick.  Most Carbys seemed to be Abby fans first and foremost; not Abby haters.

 

 

Agree to disagree, believe it or not, Reddit is pretty neutral though I've seen my share over there, and this place is very calm and quiet...Facebook is a whole different story.  I mentioned I got thrown out of one of the groups for defending Kem. For some of his fans, it's always the other person, Carter is never at fault. 

 

But I want to hug you for pointing out all the juvenile actions of Carby and why I could never get into them. I admit when I watched in real time I paid none of these storylines any mind. I liked Luka and Abby but wasn't devastated when they broke up. I was more focused on Mark and how they would do his exit.  Afterwards, I wasn't watching on a regular basis. I still caught episodes( I remember my mom and I crying watching Midnight in season 10) When I saw ER was on Max, I decided to binge the entire series back in 2022. It wasn't until then I noticed what a train wreck Carby was and did not get the appeal. Maybe it was my age.  I have outgrown those juvenile hijinks that used to entertain me. 

Edited August 20 by Mrsmaul2021

[Palimelon]

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I also believe that Carter was screwed when Anna left.  I really think they could have been one of the best couples on the show if they were given a chance. 

Yeah it was probably his best pairing on the show.

[threebluestars]

I honestly held Kem against Thandiwe Newton for years. I guess assuming the characterization was an acting choice. It wasn't until Westworld that I realized it was the writing and not the actress because she is AMAZING in that.

[Cloud9Shopper]

1 hour ago, Notabug said:

As one of the aforementioned 'Abby haters', I didn't like her with either one of them.  It seemed no amount of love and attention was going to improve her terrible attitude and I didn't think anyone should have to be in a marriage with someone so self involved. 

I agree. Abby wasn’t a good romantic partner no matter who she was with; even Richard pointed out that she made herself miserable. (Oh there is another side of the story I wish we had seen more of.) It seemed like she wanted to take more than she gave and expected her partner to pander to her needs constantly rather than give to them when they needed it. Even Luka’s father getting sick and dying was all about her, how hard she had it with him being gone  and how ”overwhelmed” she was by taking care of a kid and working. When you have a kid who’s not even two, it’s time to grow up a little bit and accept the world isn’t going to revolve around you all the time. 

[Palimelon]

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I'm 99.99% positive that is the case. Also, I've noticed SOME(some, not all) Abby haters hate the fact that she ended up with Luka and not Carter.  

Some of them seem to hate her no matter what.

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I honestly held Kem against Thandiwe Newton for years. I guess assuming the characterization was an acting choice. It wasn't until Westworld that I realized it was the writing and not the actress because she is AMAZING in that.

As others pointed out, they could have just given them a happy ending at the end of season 15. Then again, Carter himself seemed like he was in a good place overall when the series ended, so I guess that counts as a win.

Edited August 20 by Palimelon

[Mrsmaul2021]

49 minutes ago, threebluestars said:

I honestly held Kem against Thandiwe Newton for years. I guess assuming the characterization was an acting choice. It wasn't until Westworld that I realized it was the writing and not the actress because she is AMAZING in that.

Loved Thandiwe since Beloved. So happy she is finally using the correct spelling of her name too. 

[Mrsmaul2021]

Can we agree that Serena Williams was possibly the oddest guest star on this series?

[Bastet]

11 hours ago, ch1 said:

I really think they could have been one of the best couples on the show if they were given a chance. 

10 hours ago, Palimelon said:

Yeah it was probably his best pairing on the show.

By far his best pairing; they had a nice foundation of friendship (which survived his pretending to be poor), and she was supportive without indulging any of his shit.  Being TV, they most likely would not have been written as lasting, but it sure would have been nice to explore for a time.  I wish Maria Bello had wanted to stick around; she's appealing in everything I've ever seen her in, so I really liked Anna (although I vaguely remember something disturbing about sympathy for anti-abortion zealots, maybe?) -- I liked her interaction with many characters, especially Maggie Doyle, a criminally under-developed character.

[Notabug]

14 hours ago, Bastet said:

By far his best pairing; they had a nice foundation of friendship (which survived his pretending to be poor), and she was supportive without indulging any of his shit.  Being TV, they most likely would not have been written as lasting, but it sure would have been nice to explore for a time.  I wish Maria Bello had wanted to stick around; she's appealing in everything I've ever seen her in, so I really liked Anna (although I vaguely remember something disturbing about sympathy for anti-abortion zealots, maybe?) -- I liked her interaction with many characters, especially Maggie Doyle, a criminally under-developed character.

I got the impression that it was more that Anna was conflicted having been raised a Catholic to believe that abortion is a sin while also wanting to provide medical care to the woman who needed the procedure completed.  As a Catholic OB/GYN, it's a situation I can relate to.  I think the anti-abortion protester tried to give Anna some brochures or signs or something and she took them and we later saw her toss them in the trash.  At least that's how I remember it although I haven't seen the episode in years.

[Bastet]

13 minutes ago, Notabug said:

At least that's how I remember it although I haven't seen the episode in years.

I looked it up last night, and in thinking she was sympathetic to the anti-abortion nut, I was confusing it with another show that had a bombing of a family planning clinic storyline.  Anna was not at all down with that crazy lady and in fact told her off.  A patient came in needing her abortion completed, and Anna froze.  Kerry told her that can't happen, and Anna said if you'd asked her that morning, she'd have sworn it wouldn't have.

[Olis93]

Jeanie's HIV arc in season 3 is one of the best storylines in the series. Gloria Reuben was so good at showing her character adapting and navigating the struggles of a person living with HIV in 1996. You really feel for her and she is so sympathetic and endearing. The show did wonders in tackling the many misconceptions of HIV to the public at the time as well.

It also serves as sort of a time capsule to see how far we've come with people living/managing HIV in 2024 vs 1996.

[Mrsmaul2021]

21 hours ago, Olis93 said:

Jeanie's HIV arc in season 3 is one of the best storylines in the series. Gloria Reuben was so good at showing her character adapting and navigating the struggles of a person living with HIV in 1996. You really feel for her and she is so sympathetic and endearing. The show did wonders in tackling the many misconceptions of HIV to the public at the time as well.

It also serves as sort of a time capsule to see how far we've come with people living/managing HIV in 2024 vs 1996.

 

Jeanie's quiet strength and dignity is what was missing in the later seasons. 

Edited August 25 by Mrsmaul2021

[Palimelon]

I always thought it was interesting that there was never a main Physicians Assistant character after Jeanie leaves. But then again, the show also didn't have any pediatricians as a main character after Cleo left a few years later, did they? They just stuck to physicians, surgeons, and one main nurse after season 8.

Edited August 25 by Palimelon

[Mrsmaul2021]

29 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

I always thought it was interesting that there was never a main Physicians Assistant character after Jeanie leaves. But then again, the show also didn't have any pediatricians as a main character after Cleo left a few years later, did they? They just stuck to physicians, surgeons, and one main nurse after season 8.

 

 

Yep also,  there is not a main Pediatric doctor after Cleo

[Cloud9Shopper]

I always thought it was a shame when Jeanie came back in S14 (one of the only high points of S14) that she and Reggie were separated. They were so in love in S6 and their wedding was so cute, I wish the writers had just kept them together. 

[Bastet]

47 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I always thought it was a shame when Jeanie came back in S14 (one of the only high points of S14) that she and Reggie were separated. They were so in love in S6 and their wedding was so cute, I wish the writers had just kept them together. 

I wouldn't have minded them still being together, but I'm not at all surprised they weren't; their relationship was really odd to me.  They hadn't been dating all that long when she wanted to foster that baby with HIV and he just kind of declared they'd get married.  Which they did, and indeed jumped into parenthood immediately.  Very shortly after that, Jeanie decided to quit*.  Take all that on when you don't truly know each other yet, and odds aren't in your favor for long-term success.

*Kerry was such a good friend to her, and I love that when Jeanie just quits coming to work before finally being summoned and announcing she's not coming back, Kerry's reaction is to be happy she's happy and tell her to call her when the baby's older and doesn't need so much of her time, as there will always be a job for her at County.

[Mrsmaul2021]

On 8/20/2024 at 4:08 PM, Palimelon said:

Some of them seem to hate her no matter what.

As others pointed out, they could have just given them a happy ending at the end of season 15. Then again, Carter himself seemed like he was in a good place overall when the series ended, so I guess that counts as a win.

I personally do not understand the gripes when it comes to Carter's overall ending. The Kem stuff? yeah that's annoying but I agree with you, Carter  was in a great place in the final ep. He had a new lease on life, reunited with old friends and finally opened his center.  The "let's go Dr. Greene" Line will forever be awesome. 

[Palimelon]

Given that Mark was also as much of a mentor to Carter as Peter was, I liked the symmetry of Carter somewhat mentoring Rachel as well.

[Dr.OO7]

On 8/24/2024 at 9:01 PM, Olis93 said:

Jeanie's HIV arc in season 3 is one of the best storylines in the series. Gloria Reuben was so good at showing her character adapting and navigating the struggles of a person living with HIV in 1996. You really feel for her and she is so sympathetic and endearing. The show did wonders in tackling the many misconceptions of HIV to the public at the time as well.

She was robbed of an Emmy that season.

[Bastet]

On 8/26/2024 at 7:03 AM, Mrsmaul2021 said:

I personally do not understand the gripes when it comes to Carter's overall ending. The Kem stuff? yeah that's annoying but I agree with you, Carter  was in a great place in the final ep. He had a new lease on life, reunited with old friends and finally opened his center.

Same here.  That center was an incredible accomplishment, using the Carter fortune to help communities that had been so neglected.  And if he took shifts at County again, he'd have the best of both worlds, in still getting to interact with patients as he loves. 

This made me watch the finale again, and I love the stuff with the old gang.  I love that Kerry came.  Susan and Peter, of course, but she also made perfect sense given her relationship with Carter.  And then to get Elizabeth in the mix as well by having her come up with Rachel for her med school interview -- it was all nicely set up.  And, of course, as you said, the "Dr. Greene" line at the end.

I started watching the pilot afterward, and the way Carter describes the process of inserting an IV to Rachel in the finale is exactly the same way Benton described it to him in the pilot.  A nice bit of symmetry I'd never noticed.

[Palimelon]

Quote

She was robbed of an Emmy that season.

This was a great scene between Jeanie and Kerry.

 

[Heathen]

2 hours ago, Palimelon said:

This was a great scene between Jeanie and Kerry.

 

One of the first instances where Kerry proved that she's way more than just a mean bitch. 

[Mrsmaul2021]

17 hours ago, Heathen said:

One of the first instances where Kerry proved that she's way more than just a mean bitch. 

I was watching season 2 this weekend and I think Kerry is gravely misunderstood.  TBH I remember liking her back in the day. I understood what position she was in.