All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[Birdie]

Lydia and Al were cute together, and so were Jeanie and Reggie. I really wish the writers would have allowed Jeanie and Reggie to have remained happy together.

I can’t think of any “later” relationships I cared about. It just became a revolving door of ER hook-ups where everyone passed around each other. 

ETA: I did think Morris and Claudia together were cute and glad she wasn’t part of the ER. I keep remembering that ep where she’s at his apt, and she says about the paint scheme, “What is up with the brown? It’s like fifty shades of feces in here.” And then Morris sets about painting the walls. 🤣

And of course their meet ugly when we’re first introduced to Claudia as the undercover cop.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Birdie

[Kel Varnsen]

14 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

To be fair, did anyone at that hospital? 🤣 I mean you had Abby and Luka, Carol and Doug, Mark and Elizabeth (and before that she was with Peter), Peter and Cleo...OK well Kerry had Sandy and Morris had that police officer so I guess that counts.

You are right nearly everyone almost exclusively had hospital connected relationships. Either other people working there, or patients, or cops/paramedics/social workers/pharma reps they meet while those people are in the hospital. The only not hospital relationships I can think of are Mark's first wife and that storyline where Ross was having a fling with his dad's ex (which was super gross).

[CrazyInAlabama]

Kerry also had the short lived relationship with the doctor that was the representative for the hospital management company.       When she found out what the actual end game was, she dumped him, and refused to help his company take over. 

[RedbirdNelly]

I was not a Morris fan but he and Claudia were great. 

[Heathen]

On 6/7/2021 at 8:20 AM, Birdie said:

Ugh, the Kem eps have begun to repeat on Pop. (It doesn’t help that I just don’t like the character either). How come almost every woman they tried to pair Wyle with on this show, he had zero chemistry with? IMHO, the only romantic interest he clicked with was Christine Elise as Harper. Rebecca De Mornay? No. Julie Bowen? Nope. Maura Tierney? Ha, no. Mädchen Amick? Meh, ok, there was maybe a little something there.

This isn’t really a commentary on Wyle’s acting (though I’ve seen him in things other than ER, I haven’t been “blown away” by anything; he’s good 🤷‍♀️ ), but more so on the casting directors, I suppose.

Because he had chemistry with Jorja Fox as friends with Doyle and Maria Bello (wish she’d stuck around, but then I wonder what TPTB would’ve done to destroy that relationship if Anna and Carter did eventually get together). And I think he and Ming-Na connected well, but I’m glad Carter and Chen never got together because I think it’s important to depict healthy, platonic-hetero relationships.

I’m sure there are those that disagree with me though. Again, just my little opinions. 

He did have chemistry with Debbie the ICRC worker in Africa. "Everybody likes the DIxie Chicks." That pairing would have made sense, and she even looked like his past type. 

[debraran]

7 hours ago, Heathen said:

He did have chemistry with Debbie the ICRC worker in Africa. "Everybody likes the DIxie Chicks." That pairing would have made sense, and she even looked like his past type. 

Carter was so pivotal to the show and I never got his relationship with Kem. Like a story on TIU, you get someone pregnant and try to force a relationship. The death of their son was so sad and so well done, but it didn't end theirs which could have been easily explained. They were tied through him and now they can do what they were meant to do. I felt it was too drawn out and he was always chasing a ghost. So many women outside of the ER he could have met and had a good relationship with. A lot of fans made up a happy ending for him including myself.

[Cloud9Shopper]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

Carter was so pivotal to the show and I never got his relationship with Kem. Like a story on TIU, you get someone pregnant and try to force a relationship. The death of their son was so sad and so well done, but it didn't end theirs which could have been easily explained. They were tied through him and now they can do what they were meant to do. I felt it was too drawn out and he was always chasing a ghost. So many women outside of the ER he could have met and had a good relationship with. A lot of fans made up a happy ending for him including myself.

I read a fanfic a while ago where Carter and Susan end up getting together. When I stopped reading (the author abandoned their account; too bad...I liked the story) they were talking about adopting a baby together. I have no strong feelings either way on a Carter and Susan ship but I still liked imagining that Carter was happy. 

[Heathen]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I read a fanfic a while ago where Carter and Susan end up getting together. When I stopped reading (the author abandoned their account; too bad...I liked the story) they were talking about adopting a baby together. I have no strong feelings either way on a Carter and Susan ship but I still liked imagining that Carter was happy. 

I hated the series ending because Carter didn't get a happy ending. Of all the characters, I think he most deserved to be happy and have a normal life. 

[Hiyo]

But whose to say Carter wasn’t happy? A happy ending doesn’t have to include a significant other.  He seemed happy and content enough being at County General.

 

[debraran]

45 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

But whose to say Carter wasn’t happy? A happy ending doesn’t have to include a significant other.  He seemed happy and content enough being at County General.

 

I feel the same, but she was still hanging in the background and she never seemed to care that much about him. Even in the hospital, he put off calling her.

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, Hiyo said:

But whose to say Carter wasn’t happy? A happy ending doesn’t have to include a significant other.  He seemed happy and content enough being at County General.

 

Yeah, I'd call the grand opening of his foundation a pretty happy ending.  Especially since none of these people were actually "ending", we just weren't going to be seeing them anymore - who knows what he, like any of them, went on to experience in life, but he was where he belonged.

The Kem thing is open-ended, right?  Personally, I figure she doesn't call him, he finally accepts it was never meant to be from the beginning and is well and truly a thing of the past, and life goes on.  I don't see him continuing to pine over her once she's gone again; I think it was because he saw her while celebrating the foundation he'd named after their dead baby that his emotions got screwy.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I think when Kem told Carter to either meet her at the airport to go back to Paris or it was over, and the he stayed at the hospital, then I guess that was it for Kem.      

Edited June 13, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[Heathen]

It wasn't so much his lack of a significant other. It was more the hurt look on his face when Kem left.  I wish that Carter, who had so much hurt throughout his life, had gotten a break. 

It's true that the opening of his foundation should have been a happy ending were it not named after his stillborn son. Call that a bittersweet ending. 

[readster]

19 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I think when Kem told Carter to either meet her at the airport to go back to Paris or it was over, and the he stayed at the hospital, then I guess that was it for Kem.      

Yeah, at that point I just wanted to go: "She isn't worth it John, never has." You got her pain seeing her still born's son name on the plaque and going: "It's still hard." I wanted to go: "Yes, losing a child no matter what is something you never really get over, but in Kem's situation, she decided to drop anchor and stay in that depression for the rest of her life."

[Kel Varnsen]

Still on season 13. Watched episode 20 tonight (the one where the ER closes and Sam treats the photographer with cancer). One small thing I found hilarious was at the start of the episode Sam is getting ready in a fully furnished and decorated apartment with books and trinkets on shelves and pictures on the walls. Even though like 6 episodes her building practically burned down from a fire that was started in her apartment. So where the hell did she get all that stuff?

[Heathen]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Still on season 13. Watched episode 20 tonight (the one where the ER closes and Sam treats the photographer with cancer). One small thing I found hilarious was at the start of the episode Sam is getting ready in a fully furnished and decorated apartment with books and trinkets on shelves and pictures on the walls. Even though like 6 episodes her building practically burned down from a fire that was started in her apartment. So where the hell did she get all that stuff?

Her sugar daddy boss! /s 

I found Sam about as annoying and forced as Abby. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

6 hours ago, Heathen said:

Her sugar daddy boss! /s 

I found Sam about as annoying and forced as Abby. 

I didn’t care for Sam either. Maybe if she hadn’t been introduced with a kid who ran wild in the ER she would have been OK. I did like the photographer storyline, though.

My unpopular opinion about Sam is that I don’t have a problem with how she treated Abby when Abby came back to work after rehab. It seems like most of the fandom shames Sam for not falling at Abby’s feet for going to rehab, but Abby was drunk at work and suffered no consequences, as has been pointed out by people who are not me. I think if anything it was realistic that just because you go yay I’m sober now it doesn’t mean everyone has to love you for it. It almost kind of surprises me how Abby came back to life with zero burned bridges. Everyone was still her friend, she got a great new job, her marriage still held up (almost) perfectly, and her relapse and overall misery was blamed on everyone but her. (I’m on the ER Reddit too and people there legit blame Sam for Joe’s preterm labor and Abby’s relapse, as if Sam asked to be taken hostage or planned to hurt the baby.) I wish I were Abby and never had to take responsibility for anything! 
 

I doubt she managed to stay sober and/or married after some time in Boston, really.

Edited June 17, 2021 by Cloud9Shopper

[CrazyInAlabama]

I disliked Sam and her son.   He set the apartment building on fire, with horrible consequences, and nothing happened to him.     He ran wild in the ER.   He did whatever he felt like doing, with zero consequences.     Sam had good moments as a nurse, but not as a girlfriend, or mother. 

I never understood why the families and so many others were allowed in the treatment rooms either, but I'm guessing that was just for TV storylines.  I've never seen an ER where family members were standing in the treatment room during traumas. 

I agree Abby going to Boston wouldn't help her problems.   I think she was scared to death that she would end up with her mother and brother's issues.   I bet they didn't stay married, and I also doubt she stayed sober.  

(I think the little girl that died, that was Cleo's patient, died of poisoning from the iron in the mother's vitamins.   When the girl was brought in the mother said the girl had a stomach virus, or something, and the second time the girl was brought back it was too late.   However, it was probably too late at the first visit). 

Edited June 17, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[Cloud9Shopper]

43 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I disliked Sam and her son.   He set the apartment building on fire, with horrible consequences, and nothing happened to him.     He ran wild in the ER.   He did whatever he felt like doing, with zero consequences.     Sam had good moments as a nurse, but not as a girlfriend, or mother. 

I never understood why the families and so many others were allowed in the treatment rooms either, but I'm guessing that was just for TV storylines.  

I agree Abby going to Boston wouldn't help her problems.   I think she was scared to death that she would end up with her mother and brother's issues.   I bet they didn't stay married, and I also doubt she stayed sober.  

Abby and Luka, by 14x19, made me think of the phrase “Wherever you go, there you are.” I never got the impression Abby was really committed to fixing her life and working the 12 steps (she even acted like Coburn’s presence was an inconvenience on her rather than being grateful and it seemed to me in 14x14 that Coburn was over it based on her expressions and tone with Abby) and Luka didn’t even seem that enthused about the marriage until he punched Moretti in the finale. It’s fine to want a fresh start, don’t get me wrong, but unless they decided going to Boston also meant being adults and actually dealing with their shit, then I think it’s just a matter of the scenery changed but the problems didn’t. Or whatever. 
 

I remember the families in the treatment rooms thing being a controversy in S3 with Chris and Kenny Law. White families have also been asked to leave the room so I didn’t think that part of the storyline was super unreasonable. That’s the most notable thing I remember aside from Sam’s kid running around everywhere, along with that out-of-control girl Cleo had in S6 who died of something else (sorry I forget what) later when she was brought back in. I’m glad my doctor’s offices are nothing like ER! 

Edited June 17, 2021 by Cloud9Shopper

[Rootbeer]

23 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

 

I remember the families in the treatment rooms thing being a controversy in S3 with Chris and Kenny Law. White families have also been asked to leave the room so I didn’t think that part of the storyline was super unreasonable. That’s the most notable thing I remember aside from Sam’s kid running around everywhere, along with that out-of-control girl Cleo had in S6 who died of something else (sorry I forget what) later when she was brought back in. I’m glad my doctor’s offices are nothing like ER! 

Nowadays, it is very common in hospitals, including in the ER, to bring family members into the room when a patient is coding.  There've been studies that showed that loved ones wanted to be with their family member at death, even if it meant witnessing the nuts and bolts of an attempted resuscitation.  People seemed to feel more peace that the medical team did everything they could, that their relative was given every chance to make it but was just too sick or injured, that their loved one sensed the presence of their family in the room which made their transition easier.

At first, it was a bit disconcerting to have parents, children, spouses, etc present while doing CPR; but it also made us more aware that the person being coded had a life and loved ones outside the hospital.  

As for random people wandering in and out of the ER on the show, even in non life or death situations; that doesn't really happen.  Back when the show started filming, though, most ER's were fairly open, and, if a visitor acted like they knew where they were going and wasn't being disruptive; they can and did go in and out with a lot of freedom.  My nephew died in an accident at age 5 in 1991, a couple years before ER.  I did not work at the hospital where he died, didn't know anyone there.  I walked in, followed the signs to the ER and figured out where the trauma rooms would be based on the layout and activity and walked right into the room and stood at the foot of  the cart while he was being given CPR.  I just stood there watching, and, after several minutes, someone questioned my presence; but it wasn't hard to do; I got all the way to his bedside before anyone said a word.  I just needed to look at him to know what to say to my sister.  I walked out, went to the waiting room and told her he was not going to survive.  

[Cloud9Shopper]

Wow. I just watched Heal Thyself (15x7) for the first time and I knew Mark was coming back via flashback but I did not expect such a beautifully done episode. Banfield’s flashbacks to her son in parallel with the young girl with the hypothermia. The background violin music when her son died. Her confession to Morris about losing her child at County. I don’t know how she works there. I had tears in my eyes (didn’t cry all the way because TV very rarely has that affect on me for some reason) watching the second part. An incredible episode for late season ER. 

I thought the Bible verse at the beginning of the episode and putting Anthony Edwards first in the credits were nice touches as well.

I also liked that Hulu left in Eriq La Salle’s tribute to Michael Crichton. I didn’t see the later seasons in their original airing but knew he appeared for that. 
 

What an episode. 

[debraran]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Wow. I just watched Heal Thyself (15x7) for the first time and I knew Mark was coming back via flashback but I did not expect such a beautifully done episode. Banfield’s flashbacks to her son in parallel with the young girl with the hypothermia. The background violin music when her son died. Her confession to Morris about losing her child at County. I don’t know how she works there. I had tears in my eyes (didn’t cry all the way because TV very rarely has that affect on me for some reason) watching the second part. An incredible episode for late season ER. 

I thought the Bible verse at the beginning of the episode and putting Anthony Edwards first in the credits were nice touches as well.

I also liked that Hulu left in Eriq La Salle’s tribute to Michael Crichton. I didn’t see the later seasons in their original airing but knew he appeared for that. 
 

What an episode. 

I agree, rewatching on HULU, I saw and remembered things I forgot. Class episodes and I admired them even more now.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 6/17/2021 at 12:56 PM, CrazyInAlabama said:

never understood why the families and so many others were allowed in the treatment rooms either, but I'm guessing that was just for TV storylines.  I've never seen an ER where family members were standing in the treatment room during traumas. 

I haven't got to those episodes yet but that sounds hilarious. Because when I think of towns full of sober people the first place I think of is Boston.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Just watched 15-9 through 15-11 tonight. (Thanks to whoever it was who didn’t want to spoil 15-9 for me but I’m not really concerned about spoilers with this old of a show and I’d heard about the episode before anyway.)

I loved Banfield winning over the room in 15-9 but I laughed just as much at Archie’s cringeworthy attempt to warm up the room and everyone staring at him blankly. I’ve done way too many of those forced team building exercises like, “everyone say your name and something about yourself” or “we’re going to go around and say (what country we want to go to/our favorite thing about Christmas/etc.)” that if I had been in that audience I would’ve wanted Archie to put down the microphone too. Wish we had seen them sing Walk This Way together though! It felt like early seasons fun, especially given I felt that I was more miserable for having endured seasons 13 and 14. 

I feel bad for Sam that she was under so much stress with Alex but I just don’t care about her and Tony and their stepfamily thing, or Sam flying off the handle at some random stranger in a car in 15x10. I can’t believe she was allowed to treat her own kid when she was melting down in trauma like that. 

15x10: Jerry’s back! The sale of Morris’ dad’s storage unit contents was so something Jerry would sign up for. And the Christmas party scene reminded me of ER of old. The lighthearted bits in this episode were good.

15x11 was decent but not a must watch again for me. I feel sad for Banfield (and I do like her husband), but it’s so hard for me to get invested in these late-season additions beyond surface level first impressions. Neela was good with the sickle cell girl; first time in a long time I liked Neela.

Eleven episodes to go for me! Next up is Elizabeth’s return. I know she got a bad rep over the years but I always loved her. I’m finally getting close to the nostalgia episodes, as aside from the series finale, I’ve never seen them before. Just clips on YouTube. So I’m excited for the full experience. (I’m really looking forward to A Long Strange Trip.) 

 

[TigerLily20]

I watch this some as it re-runs on POP, I always enjoy the earlier seasons.  They did the "live" show today and I must have forgotten, but is this when they introduce Elizabeth to us?  I give the actor props for coming in on that episode.

[Cloud9Shopper]

6 minutes ago, TigerLily20 said:

I watch this some as it re-runs on POP, I always enjoy the earlier seasons.  They did the "live" show today and I must have forgotten, but is this when they introduce Elizabeth to us?  I give the actor props for coming in on that episode.

Yes it’s Elizabeth’s first episode. She’s one of my all-time favorite female characters! :) I don’t have POP so it’s all Hulu for me. 

[debraran]

Did you guys watch the reunion on youtube? It was very good and the guys all look great.

 

[Cloud9Shopper]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

Did you guys watch the reunion on youtube? It was very good and the guys all look great.

 

I watched it live when it aired! (I legit planned my day around the reunion; I finished getting my hair colored just in time to go put it on.) I love the originals; S1-S6 is the sweet spot for the cast, IMO. Now that I’m in the later years (11 episodes left of my rewatch before I start over), I feel like there are some decent episodes and characters but the magic of the early days is just gone for the most part until the final season gets close to winding down. Obviously, YMMV.

Anyway, I love that the cast is still so close and has such good chemistry even all these years later. The fact that they even had characters like Hicks and the background nurses stop by made it so worth the watch. I’m amazed at how well the show holds up, especially the episodes from the 90s. Around S3 or S4 it starts to look very modern and I appreciate it so much. 

[Bastet]

6 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Yes it’s Elizabeth’s first episode. She’s one of my all-time favorite female characters! :)

I know I say this repeatedly, but the way she from day one seeks out her female coworkers - doctors and nurses - for workplace conversation and social outings endears her to me right away.  She enjoys the company of women, which is so natural, but refreshing on TV.

It caused me to be extra irritated with her pissy attitude upon Susan's return.

[Cloud9Shopper]

I hate to ask this question because I’ve made it very clear that I hate Abby and I don’t want to annoy anyone. But I’m in a minor disagreement on social media with someone who is claiming that after Abby came back from rehab (S14) that she did work the steps and attended AA meetings and work with her sponsor (Coburn), but my recollection and interpretation of this season is way different, especially since I just mercifully and miserably sat through it recently. 
 

From what I remember:

-Coburn refuses to help Abby initially in 14-5 because Abby laughs her off and says she doesn’t have time to go to a meeting. In 14-6, she lies about attending meetings (the way I interpreted it) and Coburn even asks why Abby isn’t there and why she won’t go to a meeting with people that know her.

-Abby admits in 14-8 to Luka that she needs help and goes to rehab. She comes back in 14-12 and is given the terms of her supervision at work and is told how many meetings she has to attend and such, and then she goes to Croatia in 14-14. We see Luka show up in a flashback and rip Coburn a new one. Abby goes and hugs Luka at the end blah blah blah. (I should’ve shut off the episode after the Luka flashback but I guess I enjoy cruel and unusual punishment.) 

-In 14-16, Luka moves out and Abby has a conversation with Coburn about it and Coburn tells her she signed up for this. This is the last time I see them “working together.” Then 14-19 happens, Luka punches Moretti and he and Abby make up. 
 

Did I actually miss a chunk of time here where Abby is clearly shown actually practicing the 12 steps and going to a meeting? I don’t recall her ever saying in S14 that she is attending them again except when she lies about it. The person I’m disagreeing with is really pushing the idea that Abby took her recovery seriously and practiced the steps and attended meetings (as well as saying that Abby and Luka’s marriage was definitely going to last because they worked on their problems, but I didn’t see that either) but I feel like I watched a very different S14 because I did not see this at all. I feel like Abby acted entitled to have all her friends and marriage back and couldn’t fathom that some people wouldn’t think she was the greatest thing ever. I’m open to being corrected if I’m wrong but I just don’t seem to have the same recollection of things or this belief that Abby really cared about getting sober. It seems obvious to me that her 10+ years sober sponsor should actually be upheld as a good example of recovery. I don’t put Abby anywhere NEAR that same category.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Cloud9Shopper
Correcting facts

[TigerLily20]

Ok once more from the early episodes, something that I picked up for the first time, when they are introducing and talking about Ramano, I believe it is Elizabeth to who is talking to Peter about Rocket (they called him that more int he beginning) working with a Robotics team and doing a surgery by talking the robotic arm through it, blah blah blah breakthrough stuff, so......when he lost his arm........why not have him go back to that direction, I mean I am sure it still would have been a blow to him not to be able to physically do the surgery but they had him be a part of it when they first were introducing him, that would have been interesting to see them integrate it more into the workings of an ER/OR........I don't know why I am thinking about this show so much now lol.....

[Cloud9Shopper]

1 hour ago, TigerLily20 said:

Ok once more from the early episodes, something that I picked up for the first time, when they are introducing and talking about Ramano, I believe it is Elizabeth to who is talking to Peter about Rocket (they called him that more int he beginning) working with a Robotics team and doing a surgery by talking the robotic arm through it, blah blah blah breakthrough stuff, so......when he lost his arm........why not have him go back to that direction, I mean I am sure it still would have been a blow to him not to be able to physically do the surgery but they had him be a part of it when they first were introducing him, that would have been interesting to see them integrate it more into the workings of an ER/OR........I don't know why I am thinking about this show so much now lol.....

I’m not sure what specific episode you’re talking about but I do like that idea. 
 

And don’t feel bad for thinking about this show too much! I’m currently writing an ER fanfic (it’s published on Archive of our Own, but it’s a work in progress; I still have a few chapters left to go), and it’s seriously bumming me out that I have no one but maybe one person to discuss it with and share what I’m writing. Most of the other fics are Luby centered, which gets the most eyeballs and comments, and I have no problem with people writing what makes them happy (plus the writers all seem like nice people even if I don’t care for Luby) but I wish I could talk about my story with a bigger audience! I feel like it’s still good, but I’m biased of course. So if anyone here wants to see ER fanfic and chat with me I’m all for it.

I’m on the Reddit for this show too, and it’s kind of active but I miss the days of message boards and the like too. I wish there were still a bigger fandom. I overanalyze too because even though I’ve checked out other medical shows in the years since ER, nothing tops it, IMO. 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Cloud9Shopper

[Birdie]

1 hour ago, TigerLily20 said:

Ok once more from the early episodes, something that I picked up for the first time, when they are introducing and talking about Ramano, I believe it is Elizabeth to who is talking to Peter about Rocket (they called him that more int he beginning) working with a Robotics team and doing a surgery by talking the robotic arm through it, blah blah blah breakthrough stuff, so......when he lost his arm........why not have him go back to that direction, I mean I am sure it still would have been a blow to him not to be able to physically do the surgery but they had him be a part of it when they first were introducing him, that would have been interesting to see them integrate it more into the workings of an ER/OR........I don't know why I am thinking about this show so much now lol.....

Was the robotic arm just the camera though? I might be wrong. But I seem to remember Elizabeth saying things like, “Aesop, down…Stop.” And then she’d shoot a separate laser thing to do the actual surgery. Like, the robotic arm wasn’t a scalpel or any instrument for cutting or suction or whatever. But I agree.

Romano deserved better; he could’ve been made into one of those hardass, but great teacher characters (I seem to remember a little moment between him and Gallant where they’re both in the lounge and Gallant is studying. Romano suggests a better text to read from, and I think also tells him a bit about the surgery Gallant’s reading over).

As for the person above who mentioned Abby: It’s known that I don’t like her either, but I remember it as you remember it. I remember her brushing off Coburn’s “tell it like it is” sponsor advice. I remember interpreting the fact she went to meetings across town or different places or whatever line she fed rather than the one Coburn suggested as her lying as well. Her coming back from rehab and getting her conditions for returning to work, and the meeting where she was told she’d have to start all over when she got back from Croatia because they couldn’t monitor her there. Ugh, and Luka’s pushy and sexist confrontation with Coburn. I must’ve missed the same “chunk of time” you missed, lol. But I think the person you’re debating either is remembering something different or interpreting it differently. 

Maybe they’re referring to offscreen? Like, because she agreed with the review board to go to meetings and all the conditions they laid out that she was working the steps and such? 🤷‍♀️ 

[Rootbeer]

1 hour ago, Birdie said:

Was the robotic arm just the camera though? I might be wrong. But I seem to remember Elizabeth saying things like, “Aesop, down…Stop.” And then she’d shoot a separate laser thing to do the actual surgery. Like, the robotic arm wasn’t a scalpel or any instrument for cutting or suction or whatever. But I agree.

Romano deserved better; he could’ve been made into one of those hardass, but great teacher characters (I seem to remember a little moment between him and Gallant where they’re both in the lounge and Gallant is studying. Romano suggests a better text to read from, and I think also tells him a bit about the surgery Gallant’s reading over).

As for the person above who mentioned Abby: It’s known that I don’t like her either, but I remember it as you remember it. I remember her brushing off Coburn’s “tell it like it is” sponsor advice. I remember interpreting the fact she went to meetings across town or different places or whatever line she fed rather than the one Coburn suggested as her lying as well. Her coming back from rehab and getting her conditions for returning to work, and the meeting where she was told she’d have to start all over when she got back from Croatia because they couldn’t monitor her there. Ugh, and Luka’s pushy and sexist confrontation with Coburn. I must’ve missed the same “chunk of time” you missed, lol. But I think the person you’re debating either is remembering something different or interpreting it differently. 

Maybe they’re referring to offscreen? Like, because she agreed with the review board to go to meetings and all the conditions they laid out that she was working the steps and such? 🤷‍♀️ 

I. too, am not an Abby fan, but I remember it that way, too.  I recall Abby lying to Coburn and being rude and dismissive to her; although rude and dismissive was Abby's baseline with most people.  After rehab, she came back to the ER and seemed to expect a ticker tape parade to welcome her triumphant return.  Very different than Carter's return after rehab.  Abby seemed shocked and dismayed when Sam had the nerve to question her past activities at work as if everyone should just forget about that and accept at face value that she was 'cured'.  And, yes, she also seemed to feel that Luka should automatically forgive and forget her cheating as well as the very significant neglect of their child and resume worshiping at her feet and catering to her every whim as he had before.  Because she was drunk then, but sober now, she bore no responsibility for her behavior.  Making amends is a big part of the 12 steps and she certainly didn't feel she owed anyone an apology for her drinking and how it affected their lives.  We never saw her at a meeting and I don't recall her ever mentioning it, either.

Abby fans, like fans of every character, tend to filter their views through their own perspective and, in this case, they've built up a scenario in their imagination that doesn't fit what was actually seen on the show.

[Cloud9Shopper]

40 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

I. too, am not an Abby fan, but I remember it that way, too.  I recall Abby lying to Coburn and being rude and dismissive to her; although rude and dismissive was Abby's baseline with most people.  After rehab, she came back to the ER and seemed to expect a ticker tape parade to welcome her triumphant return.  Very different than Carter's return after rehab.  Abby seemed shocked and dismayed when Sam had the nerve to question her past activities at work as if everyone should just forget about that and accept at face value that she was 'cured'.  And, yes, she also seemed to feel that Luka should automatically forgive and forget her cheating as well as the very significant neglect of their child and resume worshiping at her feet and catering to her every whim as he had before.  Because she was drunk then, but sober now, she bore no responsibility for her behavior.  Making amends is a big part of the 12 steps and she certainly didn't feel she owed anyone an apology for her drinking and how it affected their lives.  We never saw her at a meeting and I don't recall her ever mentioning it, either.

Abby fans, like fans of every character, tend to filter their views through their own perspective and, in this case, they've built up a scenario in their imagination that doesn't fit what was actually seen on the show.

Well Luka went back to Abby even after he freaked out at her for putting Joe in danger, so I don’t know why he thought that was a good idea either. Who’s to say she won’t relapse (she was drunk in S8 and drinking during some outing in S9 or S10 I want to say too so it’s clear being sober was never that big of a deal to her or something she cared about) and risk Joe’s life again? 
 

I guess I am guilty about filtering Abby though my own lens too, even though I hate her. My mom works in addiction rehab, has been for 15 years now, and going to rehab in and of itself doesn’t mean shit. She’s told me plenty of stories about clients who don’t want to be there, complain about everything and sign themselves out. I’ve also heard a lot of good stories from her about clients she feels bad for and wishes she could cry with them because they do genuinely want the help. When I see Abby, I think she’s more the first group of client. She goes to rehab and gives lip service but she doesn’t actually take it seriously, and she probably spent her time there phoning it in. 
 

I really wish the show had done a better job of holding Coburn up as a good example of recovery. I would love to know what happened to her and her backstory beyond the insults Luka threw in her face. My fanfic is actually about her! Twelve years sober is something and not easy to achieve whether it’s TV or real life. Abby should have really taken more notes and been more serious. She had a great example of recovery right in front of her but didn’t seem to want to hear it. 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Cloud9Shopper

[Rootbeer]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Well Luka went back to Abby even after he freaked out at her for putting Joe in danger, so I don’t know why he thought that was a good idea either. Who’s to say she won’t relapse (she was drunk in S8 and drinking during some outing in S9 or S10 I want to say too so it’s clear being sober was never that big of a deal to her or something she cared about) and risk Joe’s life again? 
 

I guess I am guilty about filtering Abby though my own lens too, even though I hate her. My mom works in addiction rehab, has been for 15 years now, and going to rehab in and of itself doesn’t mean shit. She’s told me plenty of stories about clients who don’t want to be there, complain about everything and sign themselves out. I’ve also heard a lot of good stories from her about clients she feels bad for and wishes she could cry with them because they do genuinely want the help. When I see Abby, I think she’s more the first group of client. She goes to rehab and gives lip service but she doesn’t actually take it seriously, and she probably spent her time there phoning it in. 
 

I really wish the show had done a better job of holding Coburn up as a good example of recovery. I would love to know what happened to her and her backstory beyond the insults Luka threw in her face. My fanfic is actually about her! Twelve years sober is something and not easy to achieve whether it’s TV or real life. Abby should have really taken more notes and been more serious. She had a great example of recovery right in front of her but didn’t seem to want to hear it. 

I absolutely agree, Luka was the classic enabling partner.  Aside from returning home, he apparently placed the majority of the blame for her infidelity on the guy who boinked her.  From what we saw, she was drunk, but she was a willing participant.  She made the choice to drink, she made the choice to cheat.  For that matter, she brought her concussed child home from the ER and immediately got so drunk she passed out and couldn't hear him crying.

Actually, Abby's judgement was very poor, even when she was sober; hence her role in several disasters involving her mother and brother.

[Cloud9Shopper]

12 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

I absolutely agree, Luka was the classic enabling partner.  Aside from returning home, he apparently placed the majority of the blame for her infidelity on the guy who boinked her.  From what we saw, she was drunk, but she was a willing participant.  She made the choice to drink, she made the choice to cheat.  For that matter, she brought her concussed child home from the ER and immediately got so drunk she passed out and couldn't hear him crying.

Actually, Abby's judgement was very poor, even when she was sober; hence her role in several disasters involving her mother and brother.

I actually like to think that part of the reason Luka was gone so long is yes his father wasn’t doing well, but I believed maybe he was kind of regretting marrying her and trying to avoid returning. Her reactions to her baby possibly being born pre-term (as we’ve already discussed) and refusing medications told me everything I needed to know about what little regard she had for her child’s life and her family. My sister had a baby last year, and her baby’s birth didn’t go the way she wanted it to either, although for far less dire reasons. (Labor stopped progressing so her doctor had to get her in for a section.) My sister was initially disappointed but you know what she didn’t do? Throw a raging tantrum with her husband and doctor present and now is happy the doctor got her in to the OR because the baby was nine pounds and she was relieved she didn’t have to push. That’s how you handle it, Abby. (That’s also my sister’s name and she is, I’m happy to report, very un-Abby Lockhart like. I envied her when I was growing up and now we have a great relationship.) Plus, Luka practically had to drag her into getting married, which you wonder, why the hell are you getting married at all?
 

And you’re right about sober Abby too. Even Luka, for not having an addiction himself, made poor decisions prior to S14. I mean, hello, Luka, remember Erin Harkins? Perhaps think a little bit before bitching out someone whose crime seems to be, um, staying sober and being single? 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Cloud9Shopper

[Rootbeer]

7 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I actually like to think that part of the reason Luka was gone so long is yes his father wasn’t doing well, but I believed maybe he was kind of regretting marrying her and trying to avoid returning. Her reactions to her baby possibly being born pre-term (as we’ve already discussed) and refusing medications told me everything I needed to know about what little regard she had for her child’s life and her family. My sister had a baby last year, and her baby’s birth didn’t go the way she wanted it to either, although for far less dire reasons. (Labor stopped progressing so her doctor had to get her in for a section.) My sister was initially disappointed but you know what she didn’t do? Throw a raging tantrum with her husband and doctor present and now is happy the doctor got her in to the OR because the baby was nine pounds and she was relieved she didn’t have to push. That’s how you handle it, Abby. (That’s also my sister’s name and she is, I’m happy to report, very un-Abby Lockhart like. I envied her when I was growing up and now we have a great relationship.) Plus, Luka practically had to drag her into getting married, which you wonder, why the hell are you getting married at all?
 

And you’re right about sober Abby too. Even Luka, for not having an addiction himself, made poor decisions prior to S14. I mean, hello, Luka, remember Erin Harkins? Perhaps think a little bit before bitching out someone whose crime seems to be, um, staying sober and being single? 

Exactly.  For all we know, Coburn needed to end her marriage in order to stay sober.  I had a family member who was an alcoholic and married to another alcoholic.  Eventually, they realized their relationship was part of the problem.  They divorced, both of them got sober and eventually both married other people and remained sober, and married to their second spouse, for the rest of their lives.  

Once again, it seemed like Luka blamed Coburn for Abby's cheating.  If only her sponsor had been able to make her marriage work, then Abby wouldn't have fallen into bed with her boss.  Or, maybe he thought Coburn somehow encouraged Abby to cheat.  Once again, very enabling on his part and another very good reason they were very bad for one another.

In real life, a couple like Abby and Luka wouldn't last more than a few years at best.  And Abby was clearly not committed to working the steps and her sobriety was going to always be very tenuous.  I'd expect they would be divorced with Luka raising Joe as a single parent by the time Joe was old enough for school.

[Cloud9Shopper]

7 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

Exactly.  For all we know, Coburn needed to end her marriage in order to stay sober.  I had a family member who was an alcoholic and married to another alcoholic.  Eventually, they realized their relationship was part of the problem.  They divorced, both of them got sober and eventually both married other people and remained sober, and married to their second spouse, for the rest of their lives.  

Once again, it seemed like Luka blamed Coburn for Abby's cheating.  If only her sponsor had been able to make her marriage work, then Abby wouldn't have fallen into bed with her boss.  Or, maybe he thought Coburn somehow encouraged Abby to cheat.  Once again, very enabling on his part and another very good reason they were very bad for one another.

In real life, a couple like Abby and Luka wouldn't last more than a few years at best.  And Abby was clearly not committed to working the steps and her sobriety was going to always be very tenuous.  I'd expect they would be divorced with Luka raising Joe as a single parent by the time Joe was old enough for school.

Glad your family members are in better places. :) I wrote Coburn as someone who needs to stay single to be sober too, although not for the same reasons as your family. (My interpretation, though, is that she panics that another failed marriage would lead her to relapse and she’s not comfortable enough with the risk.) I just think it’s a little more complex than “your husband left you and you’ve been ALONE ever since!” (And as @Birdie mentioned, that’s so sexist anyway, as if ER was set in the 1950s!) 

It bothered me so much that Abby never apologized for drinking while she was supposed to be on shift. I don’t even think she needed to give a Shakespearean monologue about it. All she had to do was say to Sam, hey yes I did drink at work and I’m sorry I put a patient in danger. Or whatever one would say to make amends there; I’m not familiar with AA and the steps. Abby’s “but I’m trying hard to be a good person!” was not an apology.  

 

[Rootbeer]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Glad your family members are in better places. :) I wrote Coburn as someone who needs to stay single to be sober too, although not for the same reasons as your family. (My interpretation, though, is that she panics that another failed marriage would lead her to relapse and she’s not comfortable enough with the risk.) I just think it’s a little more complex than “your husband left you and you’ve been ALONE ever since!” (And as @Birdie mentioned, that’s so sexist anyway, as if ER was set in the 1950s!) 

It bothered me so much that Abby never apologized for drinking while she was supposed to be on shift. I don’t even think she needed to give a Shakespearean monologue about it. All she had to do was say to Sam, hey yes I did drink at work and I’m sorry I put a patient in danger. Or whatever one would say to make amends there; I’m not familiar with AA and the steps. Abby’s “but I’m trying hard to be a good person!” was not an apology.  

 

The only thing I know about the steps is that the person is supposed to admit that their drinking hurt others and apologize for it.  Sam was present and clearly suspicious when Abby was drunk at work.  All Abby needed to do was to acknowledge to Sam that she had put Sam in a terrible position as a nurse, not to mention the risk to the patient and that she was very sorry and would try hard to never be in that situation again.  And, no, telling people you are a basically decent human being is not the same as an amends.

These are steps 8-11 which seem to be pertinent to the situation:

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

[debraran]

5 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

I absolutely agree, Luka was the classic enabling partner.  Aside from returning home, he apparently placed the majority of the blame for her infidelity on the guy who boinked her.  From what we saw, she was drunk, but she was a willing participant.  She made the choice to drink, she made the choice to cheat.  For that matter, she brought her concussed child home from the ER and immediately got so drunk she passed out and couldn't hear him crying.

Actually, Abby's judgement was very poor, even when she was sober; hence her role in several disasters involving her mother and brother.

I agree, Stanley Tucci was wrong but she was also. She wasn't a child. She wasn't a good mom and didn't take responsibility a lot in the show. She wasn't the first person with an issue, with a parent with an issue, etc. It was always "All about Abby". I never could warm to her at all.

I liked Romano and they missed SO much doing what they did with his character. They are very closed mouthed about it but he didn't want that and certainly not the helicopter but some old rumors say so. They made him a caricature of himself. He could have shown growth, had a life outside of the ER besides the statuesque woman you see him with at times. He didn't have to become very "woke" he was a product of his time but with Lizzie as a friend and having some good encounters with patients etc, he could have come along enough to be funny and annoying.

I don't like the music but this montage made me remember some encounters and someone once put all the good things Romano did or said (more than most think) Lost cause now, but one of the things I felt ER did wrong toward the end.

My favorite Lizzie moment was his talk with her about Mark which I think is in another video.

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by debraran

[Rootbeer]

For all of Romano's bluster, he had his share of moments of real humanity and compassion.  Like when he signed to Reese to take care of his father after Carla died.  Or, his talk with Lizzie about Mark's impending death.  His reaction to Lucy coming to his house to get him to perform the heart surgery followed by his reaction to her death.

We also saw he loved his dog and he talked about doing things for his mother for Mother's Day.  

There were plenty of ways he could've been humanized and the show would've been better for it.

[Cloud9Shopper]

51 minutes ago, debraran said:

I agree, Stanley Tucci was wrong but she was also. She wasn't a child. She wasn't a good mom and didn't take responsibility a lot in the show. She wasn't the first person with an issue, with a parent with an issue, etc. It was always "All about Abby". I never could warm to her at all.

I liked Romano and they missed SO much doing what they did with his character. They are very closed mouthed about it but he didn't want that and certainly not the helicopter but some old rumors say so. They made him a caricature of himself. He could have shown growth, had a life outside of the ER besides the statuesque woman you see him with at times. He didn't have to become very "woke" he was a product of his time but with Lizzie as a friend and having some good encounters with patients etc, he could have come along enough to be funny and annoying.

I don't like the music but this montage made me remember some encounters and someone once put all the good things Romano did or said (more than most think) Lost cause now, but one of the things I felt ER did wrong toward the end.

My favorite Lizzie moment was his talk with her about Mark which I think is in another video.

 

I liked Elizabeth with both Peter and Mark but I definitely had a fleeting thought of what if she got together with Romano? Thanks for this video; it was a good look back at some of the admiration they had for each other at times. I did like in S9 when he had her write “not this one idiot” on his full arm. 
 

Romano getting killed by helicopter was the jump the shark moment of the show for me. No one asked where he was? No one came to his memorial but Elizabeth? It was such bullshit. 
 

A lot of Abby fans and Luby shippers seem to believe now that the Moretti thing was rape. I’m not sure if I saw it that way in Blackout, and seeing as I’m probably never going to watch it again, I guess I’ll never agree or disagree one way or the other. And I don’t know if I care. I found it more interesting that she showed up to a bar already plastered and apparently none of her coworkers knew about her alcoholism or cared? They just thought she was cute and funny? It seemed like a stretch. She’d been around long enough. Someone in that bar had to have known! 

[debraran]

24 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I liked Elizabeth with both Peter and Mark but I definitely had a fleeting thought of what if she got together with Romano? Thanks for this video; it was a good look back at some of the admiration they had for each other at times. I did like in S9 when he had her write “not this one idiot” on his full arm. 
 

Romano getting killed by helicopter was the jump the shark moment of the show for me. No one asked where he was? No one came to his memorial but Elizabeth? It was such bullshit. 
 

A lot of Abby fans and Luby shippers seem to believe now that the Moretti thing was rape. I’m not sure if I saw it that way in Blackout, and seeing as I’m probably never going to watch it again, I guess I’ll never agree or disagree one way or the other. And I don’t know if I care. I found it more interesting that she showed up to a bar already plastered and apparently none of her coworkers knew about her alcoholism or cared? They just thought she was cute and funny? It seemed like a stretch. She’d been around long enough. Someone in that bar had to have known! 

Also you look like you look, but I felt they made Elizabeth not go out with him at times more because of that. She dated other men from work, Mark wasn't a "stud" but cute in his own way. She really, really liked him, loved him maybe in her own way, but just couldn't get by the looks it seemed certain times. A few times when their eyes met, I thought "maybe" after a few drinks but no. She always saw him as he was though, the underbelly.

I also loved how she burned the hospital card at the end, very fitting.

In a blooper video on youtube there is a scene where he does kiss her and she laughs.

They tried in an interview to ask "Haleh" about the jump the shark moment and she wouldn't bite. She just said she wasn't going to gossip, just know that most didn't want that, one person did and he did get directing jobs later (almost like a compensation)

Edited July 1, 2021 by debraran

[Cloud9Shopper]

I know that blooper scene you mean! (I watch way too many ER clips on YouTube, I have to admit, but the Internet is the only place I can find people as excited about the show as me.)  

[Rootbeer]

59 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

 

A lot of Abby fans and Luby shippers seem to believe now that the Moretti thing was rape. I’m not sure if I saw it that way in Blackout, and seeing as I’m probably never going to watch it again, I guess I’ll never agree or disagree one way or the other. And I don’t know if I care. I found it more interesting that she showed up to a bar already plastered and apparently none of her coworkers knew about her alcoholism or cared? They just thought she was cute and funny? It seemed like a stretch. She’d been around long enough. Someone in that bar had to have known! 

Abby didn't think it was rape.  She was quick enough to blame others for other stuff that WAS her fault, I doubt she would've taken credit for cheating on Luka if she had been assaulted.  I think they were both very drunk, both having personal problems and both decided to forget their troubles by sleeping with one another.

Abby was quite secretive about her alcoholism, so I can believe that most of her coworkers, except Neela, didn't know.  However, you would think someone would've commented on the fact that she was very obviously quite drunk from the start of the evening.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Rootbeer

[Rootbeer]

41 minutes ago, debraran said:

Also you look like you look, but I felt they made Elizabeth not go out with him at times more because of that. She dated other men from work, Mark wasn't a "stud" but cute in his own way. She really, really liked him, loved him maybe in her own way, but just couldn't get by the looks it seemed certain times. A few times when their eyes met, I thought "maybe" after a few drinks but no. She always saw him as he was though, the underbelly.

 

I thought Romano was cuter than Mark.  I am not much into guys without chins.  Romano was cute in a baby faced sort of way.

I do think that the show had characters far more hung up on looks than happens in real life, though.  Look how many people were constantly commenting about how gorgeous and hot Abby was.  I mean, she was cute, but hardly a standout in that ER.

[Cloud9Shopper]

I never got all the hype around Abby’s looks, or even Maura Tierney as an actress. IMO Maura isn’t that good. Maybe she has a role outside of ER where she’s a less irritating character and does a better job and I just have yet to see it. But there were so many beautiful actresses/female characters on the show over the years that I don’t think Maura/Abby and her sourpuss acting are the cream of the crop. Carol, Neela, Elizabeth, Anna, Jeanie and more I’m not mentioning I’m sure are just as attractive and played by solid actresses. (I always thought Alex Kingston was gorgeous and she still looks great!) Laura Innes was great with Kerry’s emotions and had good facial expressions. MT could only do one thing and it got old after a while. 

[Bastet]

4 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

No one came to his memorial but Elizabeth? It was such bullshit. 

I like that they kept it real and didn't have the characters suddenly talking nice about Romano just because he was dead; it's true no one but Elizabeth would miss him.  But Susan not attending the memorial is out of character.  They got along in this really odd way, so while I buy her not wanting to speak, I don't buy her not feeling - based on her personality and their interaction - like she needed to attend.

[debraran]

5 hours ago, Bastet said:

I like that they kept it real and didn't have the characters suddenly talking nice about Romano just because he was dead; it's true no one but Elizabeth would miss him.  But Susan not attending the memorial is out of character.  They got along in this really odd way, so while I buy her not wanting to speak, I don't buy her not feeling - based on her personality and their interaction - like she needed to attend.

Or any of his administrator buddies. There is "real" and being respectful. This was where they worked, not a funeral home. Was his mom still alive, his dog? He was just erased and it just didn't seem right as he rapid decline in character didn't. Not even exploring what he could learn with his arm etc. Who did he piss off?

It's funny Abby was on a lot of shows, but all I could remember is her pout and constantly running her hands through her hair. Maybe she didn't do it as much as i remember but enough to have it be my memory.

I hope if they do have another reunion they have Eriq and Sherry, Paul McCrane and George again. So many couldn't do it or fit. Like the show, for many it will be timeless. I just met a 30 year old who found it on Hulu and as Julianne said she is getting younger fans mention it instead of Good Wife.

 

Edited July 2, 2021 by debraran