All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[MVFrostsMyPie]

Nope, it was never read out loud in the episode. NBC did post it on their website though, at the time. 

[Dr.OO7]

2 hours ago, Everleigh said:

He comes off so condescending and resentful of the fact that Abby wouldn't let him save her. 

Maybe, but he also makes some very valid points about feeling like he was never her priority and that she wasn't there for him when he needed her (already reprehensible, even moreso considering that he did knock himself out trying to be there for her).

A pretty classic example of a friendship not translating well to a romance.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Camille

[RedbirdNelly]

10 hours ago, Camille said:

Maybe, but he also makes some very valid points about feeling like he was never her priority and that she wasn't there for him when he needed her (already reprehensible, even moreso considering that he did knock himself out trying to be there for her).

A pretty classic example of a friendship not translating well to a romance.

Agreed. Neither was perfect or 100% to blame but I certainly don't blame Carter over Abby. It just wasn't a good relationship and I think his letter spells that out pretty well.

[BigBeagle]

Season 9 is almost unwatchable for me because of the Carter-Abby shenanigans. I never minded the show for displaying the characters' flaws — perfection is boring — but that pairing from hell was a train wreck waiting to happen from the word go.

[doodlebug]

13 hours ago, Everleigh said:

Yes, thank you for posting. I don't recall, was the letter read or shown in the actual episode at all? Because I just remember reading it online. 

The content of the letter really shows why Carter and Abby were a disaster though. He comes off so condescending and resentful of the fact that Abby wouldn't let him save her. 

I didn't find it condescending at all, just realistic.  They were good as friends, a disaster as a couple; and he didn't want to keep banging his head against the wall trying to make the unworkable work.  He was very complimentary to Abby, expressed a good understanding of the many problems in her life that kept her from being the partner he needed and he took his share of the blame for the fact that things didn't go well for them.

[Everleigh]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I didn't find it condescending at all, just realistic.  They were good as friends, a disaster as a couple; and he didn't want to keep banging his head against the wall trying to make the unworkable work.  He was very complimentary to Abby, expressed a good understanding of the many problems in her life that kept her from being the partner he needed and he took his share of the blame for the fact that things didn't go well for them.

Except he doesn't really take his share of the blame, he puts it all on her, while bemoaning how hard he tried. He starts by imploring her to put her judgement and condemnation aside and understand him. He says more than once that she didn't need him, as if, had she been a little more damaged or a little more receptive to being saved things might have worked out. He stops short of out rightly accusing her of not being there for him, instead choosing to passive aggressively leave the accusation partially unsaid but fully implied, which just comes across as juvenile. He notes that her life is indeed very complicated but he doesn't sound particularly understanding or compassionate, but rather he seems put upon by it, because her complicated life interferes with his ideals and she didn't prioritize his needs over her family's issues and make room for him. 

And he shrouds the whole letter in his signature earnest do-gooder condescension, as though, once again, he's just doing what's best for her by ending things and she should not only understand that but be grateful he's doing it. 

He does however compliment her for being a good person and refrains from name-calling so that's nice, but the letter perfectly illustrates why they were bad for each other, so props to whichever writer took up the task, they did a good job capturing Carter's character. 

And I'm not saying the breakup was entirely Carter's fault, it was a mutual disaster. Abby was in no place to be in a relationship and needed to take some time to get her life in order before she could be a good partner. My point was that the letter really captured Carter's attitude towards Abby and that attitude was what made him a bad fit for her. Whereas we saw more of Abby's flaws play out on screen. 

[doodlebug]

37 minutes ago, Everleigh said:

Except he doesn't really take his share of the blame, he puts it all on her, while bemoaning how hard he tried. He starts by imploring her to put her judgement and condemnation aside and understand him. He says more than once that she didn't need him, as if, had she been a little more damaged or a little more receptive to being saved things might have worked out. He stops short of out rightly accusing her of not being there for him, instead choosing to passive aggressively leave the accusation partially unsaid but fully implied, which just comes across as juvenile. He notes that her life is indeed very complicated but he doesn't sound particularly understanding or compassionate, but rather he seems put upon by it, because her complicated life interferes with his ideals and she didn't prioritize his needs over her family's issues and make room for him. 

And he shrouds the whole letter in his signature earnest do-gooder condescension, as though, once again, he's just doing what's best for her by ending things and she should not only understand that but be grateful he's doing it. 

He does however compliment her for being a good person and refrains from name-calling so that's nice, but the letter perfectly illustrates why they were bad for each other, so props to whichever writer took up the task, they did a good job capturing Carter's character. 

And I'm not saying the breakup was entirely Carter's fault, it was a mutual disaster. Abby was in no place to be in a relationship and needed to take some time to get her life in order before she could be a good partner. My point was that the letter really captured Carter's attitude towards Abby and that attitude was what made him a bad fit for her. Whereas we saw more of Abby's flaws play out on screen. 

At least he tried to communicate.  When he first returned from Africa, Abby tossed him out of her apartment, took his key and hung a grocery bag full of his stuff on his locker.  Then, when Carter tried to talk to her, she blew him off while telling coworkers how he needed to work his way back into her good graces.  Luka was absolutely spot on when he told her she behaved like a schoolgirl who could have any boy she wanted.  As far as the letter Carter sent, they were already broken up; and Abby is the one who initiated it.  He had tried to talk to her, she wouldn't have it; so he wrote it down.  In all her relationships on the show, Abby expected her partner to put her first, last and always while having no interest or understanding of his needs and desires and constantly pouting and moping if he couldn't read her mind or had the nerve not to do things the way she wanted.  Carter spent much of their time together bending over backwards to accommodate Abby and her ridiculous behavior towards her family.  No relationship can survive if one partner sucks all the life out of the other while giving nothing in return.  By the time of the letter, Carter had spent hours and days and weeks and months listening to Abby complain about her life and repeatedly providing her both emotional support as well as financial aid as she chased her family around the countryside.  Meanwhile, when his grandmother died, Abby could barely muster a sympathetic remark until she was right back to her problems and her family and what she needed.  You could practically see the lightbulb go off over Carter's head as he realized she could never be there for him but would expect endless support from him 24/7.  Just like Luka, who got punished for 'selfishly' spending time with his dying father instead of helping Abby with child care.

Edited July 18, 2018 by doodlebug

[debraran]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

At least he tried to communicate.  When he first returned from Africa, Abby tossed him out of her apartment, took his key and hung a grocery bag full of his stuff on his locker.  Then, when Carter tried to talk to her, she blew him off while telling coworkers how he needed to work his way back into her good graces.  Luka was absolutely spot on when he told her she behaved like a schoolgirl who could have any boy she wanted.  As far as the letter Carter sent, they were already broken up; and Abby is the one who initiated it.  He had tried to talk to her, she wouldn't have it; so he wrote it down.  In all her relationships on the show, Abby expected her partner to put her first, last and always while having no interest or understanding of his needs and desires and constantly pouting and moping if he couldn't read her mind or had the nerve not to do things the way she wanted.  Carter spent much of their time together bending over backwards to accommodate Abby and her ridiculous behavior towards her family.  No relationship can survive if one partner sucks all the life out of the other while giving nothing in return.  By the time of the letter, Carter had spent hours and days and weeks and months listening to Abby complain about her life and repeatedly providing her both emotional support as well as financial aid as she chased her family around the countryside.  Meanwhile, when his grandmother died, Abby could barely muster a sympathetic remark until she was right back to her problems and her family and what she needed.  You could practically see the lightbulb go off over Carter's head as he realized she could never be there for him but would expect endless support from him 24/7.  Just like Luka, who got punished for 'selfishly' spending time with his dying father instead of helping Abby with child care.

I agree 100% with that. Abby was narcissistic and found it hard to find room for anyone else to be there.  Even her alcoholism had to be accepted with the attitude she wasn't changing, she could fail, etc. but not with the usual "I'm human" but it seemed, "I deserve to fall if I want too" My life is chaos. What Carter did for her was far over what she did for him and her mentor was right, if she wouldn't admit she had an issue, she was an alcoholic, when she was drinking again, she wouldn't help her. She had a son and still couldn't put him first or ask for help. I tried to like her more but it was hard at times. Good actress but not overly sympathetic.

[slasherboy]

Today is Anthony Edwards' birthday.  Happy 56th, Dr. Mark Greene!

Coincidentally, it's Goose's 56th birthday too!

[MVFrostsMyPie]

They really shellacked the makeup onto Neela towards the end there, I noticed. There was a bedroom scene she was in and she had on about 2 pounds of blush and enough eyeliner for a Vegas night out. 

I miss the earlier seasons where the women looked more practical, working in an ER. Hair up (....usually) and "makeup free". Even the dudes looked more disheveled and their hair wasn't neatly combed(well, Mark didn't have any hair, but YKWIM). In the later seasons, even the injured patients who were nearly dying would come in with a fresh application of lip gloss.

Edited July 20, 2018 by MVFrostsMyPie

[RedbirdNelly]

7 hours ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

They really shellacked the makeup onto Neela towards the end there, I noticed. There was a bedroom scene she was in and she had on about 2 pounds of blush and enough eyeliner for a Vegas night out. 

I miss the earlier seasons where the women looked more practical, working in an ER. Hair up (....usually) and "makeup free". Even the dudes looked more disheveled and their hair wasn't neatly combed(well, Mark didn't have any hair, but YKWIM). In the later seasons, even the injured patients who were nearly dying would come in with a fresh application of lip gloss.

I agree--one of the things I appreciated on re-watch (esp as someone who watches Grey's Anatomy) was how normal people looked. They wore scrubs that made them look kind of frumpy. The cast was not unattractive--but they did not look like they just left a photo shoot. It made them seem more real.

[debraran]

8 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I agree--one of the things I appreciated on re-watch (esp as someone who watches Grey's Anatomy) was how normal people looked. They wore scrubs that made them look kind of frumpy. The cast was not unattractive--but they did not look like they just left a photo shoot. It made them seem more real.

The hair got worse later too, you just don't have hair in your face or blocking your vision, you pull it back, or wear it shorter. You can still have it look nice, I remember nurses with braids, french braids, ponytails, pretty clips, but that hanging hair isn't safe or sanitary.

[txhorns79]

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The hair got worse later too, you just don't have hair in your face or blocking your vision, you pull it back, or wear it shorter. You can still have it look nice, I remember nurses with braids, french braids, ponytails, pretty clips, but that hanging hair isn't safe or sanitary.

I remember one of the EMTs had long multi-colored braids that just hung all over her face as she brought in patients.  I can't believe for even a moment that she wouldn't have been required to pull back her hair for her job.  I think Abby had the same issue when her hair was longer as well. 
 

Quote

 

The whole thing was  completely  nonsensical and was a waste of Ed Asner's talents.  First, remember that Carter met Asner's character when he came to the ER with blood sugar problems.  So, he was setting Carter up?  How did he know he'd be seen by Carter?  None of the other ER docs, of which there would've been dozens, was in a position to donate the kind of cash Carter could.  How did Asner finagle meeting Carter and then making sure he found out about his clinic?  Then, we have to presume Asner set up an entire fake medical clinic, complete with patients, in an abandoned building without being noticed, on the off chance Carter might turn up looking for him?  Huh?  Next, Carter gives him a pretty sizable check and he acts put out about it.  How does that work out for him?  How would that spur Carter into giving him even more dough?  Finally, he shuts the whole scam down and skips town on a moments' notice.  

The entire storyline was absurd.

 

It was a ridiculous storyline.  If the entire point was to con Carter, way too much is left to chance.  Further, it all seemingly rests on the idea that Carter is stupid enough to hand over a large check to someone who is essentially a stranger without doing any kind of due diligence.  Now, in this case, that turned out to be true, but that was just pure luck.  And finally, all Carter has to do is put a stop payment on the check.  That's it.  He may still lose some of it to administrative fees at the bank, but the con artist is not going to get the money.      

Edited July 23, 2018 by txhorns79

[RedbirdNelly]

On ‎7‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 9:39 PM, txhorns79 said:

I remember one of the EMTs had long multi-colored braids that just hung all over her face as she brought in patients.  I can't believe for even a moment that she wouldn't have been required to pull back her hair for her job.  I think Abby had the same issue when her hair was longer as well. 
 

It was a ridiculous storyline.  If the entire point was to con Carter, way too much is left to chance.  Further, it all seemingly rests on the idea that Carter is stupid enough to hand over a large check to someone who is essentially a stranger without doing any kind of due diligence.  Now, in this case, that turned out to be true, but that was just pure luck.  And finally, all Carter has to do is put a stop payment on the check.  That's it.  He may still lose some of it to administrative fees at the bank, but the con artist is not going to get the money.      

so agree--I think we're supposed to think he ran a legit clinic for years but when he got the big check decided it was time to throw in the towel and run off with the cash? that makes no sense either, but is a bit more believable than this being some kind of weird long con involving random run in at an ER. . .

in other news--NYT piece on M. Tierney (Abby) which starts with this gem (in connection with her new show)

 

Maura Tierney has a favorite seat on the New York City Water Taxi: upstairs, near the stern, on top of some metal storage lockers. “If anything goes wrong, you’re very close to the life jackets,” she said on a recent Sunday, as she watched the crowd board from the Wall Street dock. “When this boat gets really full, it looks like there aren’t nearly enough.”

Sensible, no-nonsense, lightly pessimistic. These have been Ms. Tierney’s television go-tos, first on the underrated sitcom “NewsRadio,” in which she played a reporter and producer, and then on the medical drama “ER,” in which she played an obstetrics nurse and then a doctor.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/20/style/maura-tierney-the-affair.html

[txhorns79]

Quote

so agree--I think we're supposed to think he ran a legit clinic for years but when he got the big check decided it was time to throw in the towel and run off with the cash? that makes no sense either, but is a bit more believable than this being some kind of weird long con involving random run in at an ER. . .

I can buy that Carter was targeted.  It wouldn't be hard to learn Carter's schedule, and let your chronic condition go to the point where you require treatment.  In the episode where the character was introduced, Ed Asner rejects being treated by one doctor, and ropes Carter in to treat him.  That being said, from what we are later told (that the clinic had only been in place a few weeks), it seems like it would have been incredibly easy to figure out Ed Asner's story about operating the clinic for years was not true, and to check if he was even credentialed as a doctor.  I also found it hard to believe that someone with Carter's background, as coming from a wealthy family that gave large sums to charity , and having worked in the ER (where patients are often dishonest about symptoms and their behavior) was this naive.  And I know you do read stories about wealthy people being bamboozled, but Ed really only made a few easily disprovable claims, and the rest was just Carter making a boatload of assumptions. 

[Dr.OO7]

1 hour ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I think we're supposed to think he ran a legit clinic for years but when he got the big check decided it was time to throw in the towel and run off with the cash? that makes no sense either, but is a bit more believable than this being some kind of weird long con involving random run in at an ER.

That seemed to be the scenario, but even that isn't true. When Carter returns to the clinic and finds it abandoned, the cop with him tells him that contrary to what the guy told him, the clinic had only been there for a few weeks/months--he had been patrolling the neighborhood for years himself. 

Even from its glory days, the show had nonsensical storylines, but this one really stood out.

[Dr.OO7]

4 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I can buy that Carter was targeted

Yes, but could he really have anticipated that Carter would stop by his clinic, see how crappy it was, and whip out his checkbook?  Not to mention continue to offer him money even after his offer of help was rebuffed?

[RedbirdNelly]

to me it's weird the shows writers didn't stop and go "this is too much" because it just didn't add up at all. Come up with a better reason for Ed Asner's arc to end--he could have just ended up dead or something and that would have made more sense.

On a different topic--episode 2, season 15---was a very good one for Archie. He tears up at the end over Pratt (after yelling it out with Angela Basette who just is awesome). That may be the only time Archie got to me but his reaction seemed very real.

 

On a lighter note the Brenner organized protest to get Lucien back cracked me up with the sign that said "Lucien is the Solution". Cute.

[txhorns79]

Quote

to me it's weird the shows writers didn't stop and go "this is too much" because it just didn't add up at all. Come up with a better reason for Ed Asner's arc to end--he could have just ended up dead or something and that would have made more sense.

I did wonder if it was ended prematurely.  He wasn't given much to do, and probably had perhaps 15 or 20 minutes of screentime in total over three episodes. 

[debraran]

7 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I did wonder if it was ended prematurely.  He wasn't given much to do, and probably had perhaps 15 or 20 minutes of screentime in total over three episodes. 

I always think of those moments, "main writers took the week off"  Whether it's true or not, it doesn't make my head hurt thinking about it. Ed deserved better, maybe he didn't care, check was the same, but his history of great acting was wasted.  Bob Newhart had a better show with Susan but that ended abruptly with no followup on what happened to his dog she gave him after he commits suicide. It was sad but Bob had more air time and it was more realistic.  Susan was close to him and then nothing. I was hoping she took the pup or gave him to someone in the ER. He was adorable.  Alan Alda was also good and I loved the reference to a technique he learned during the war, just enough to give MASH fans a smile but not over the top.

[RedbirdNelly]

it did feel like the writers took the week off or someone drafted part of the script, someone else finished it and no one proof read. . .

I finished The Book of Abby --abby's last show Season 15. It was kind of a relief for her part to wrap up. Her scene on the roof with the kid who is thinking of jumping reminded me of Carter's scene where the patient actually jumped ---Season 1 I believe.

[debraran]

4 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

it did feel like the writers took the week off or someone drafted part of the script, someone else finished it and no one proof read. . .

I finished The Book of Abby --abby's last show Season 15. It was kind of a relief for her part to wrap up. Her scene on the roof with the kid who is thinking of jumping reminded me of Carter's scene where the patient actually jumped ---Season 1 I believe.

Yes

Yes, Vondie Curtis-Hall jumped when passing as a transvestite got too hard and he felt alone and then later was reincarnated as Carla's boyfriend.   : )

[Dr.OO7]

I watched "Witch Hunt" today. Jesum peace, was Kerry a self-centered coward or what?

Kim: "I've been accused of sexual assault/harassment and now I might lose my job, my license, and maybe even go to jail."

Kerry: "WHAT?! Kim, how could you do this to me?! Now everyone's going to know we're sleeping together!"

I loved it at the end when poor Kim just got so fed up with her bullshit that she just walked away even as Kerry was still whimpering and wailing and whining about why can't Kim understand how difficult this is for HER.

[doodlebug]

8 hours ago, Camille said:

I watched "Witch Hunt" today. Jesum peace, was Kerry a self-centered coward or what?

Kim: "I've been accused of sexual assault/harassment and now I might lose my job, my license, and maybe even go to jail."

Kerry: "WHAT?! Kim, how could you do this to me?! Now everyone's going to know we're sleeping together!"

I loved it at the end when poor Kim just got so fed up with her bullshit that she just walked away even as Kerry was still whimpering and wailing and whining about why can't Kim understand how difficult this is for HER.

Kerry’s self centered obsession with avoiding consequences for herself while hanging other people out to dry really was a consistent trait throughout the series.  It was completely in character that, even in her newly discovered sexuality, she couldn’t risk anything of herself, no matter what it cost others.

[txhorns79]

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Kerry’s self centered obsession with avoiding consequences for herself while hanging other people out to dry really was a consistent trait throughout the series.  It was completely in character that, even in her newly discovered sexuality, she couldn’t risk anything of herself, no matter what it cost others.

Yeah, it was nice to see Kim be the actual grown up there and just walk away from the bs.  Having said that, I do wonder what people thought of Sandy outing Kerry at work.  In the series, it's treated as something that had to be done, but I feel like that kind of storyline would be seen much differently today.   

[RedbirdNelly]

3 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Kerry’s self centered obsession with avoiding consequences for herself while hanging other people out to dry really was a consistent trait throughout the series.  It was completely in character that, even in her newly discovered sexuality, she couldn’t risk anything of herself, no matter what it cost others.

I did like how they wrote Kerry (most of the time). Weaker shows take a character that is abrasive and then flip them to 100% likeable or close to it. Kerry keeps her lousy social skills throughout and this tendency to hang others out to dry (often right about the time you are starting to really be on her side). They have characters changes and grow which is realistic but also not get complete personality transplants. It's what I always liked about Benton.  Kovac was the character where they most seemed to violate this rule.

[Dr.OO7]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

Having said that, I do wonder what people thought of Sandy outing Kerry at work.  In the series, it's treated as something that had to be done, but I feel like that kind of storyline would be seen much differently today

As much as I disliked Kerry, that pissed me off. While Sandy has every right to not want to date someone who wants to hide their relationship, and Kerry did need to get over herself and her paranoia,  it is NOT Sandy's place to out Kerry and declare that she "did her a favor".

 

31 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

Kerry’s self centered obsession with avoiding consequences for herself while hanging other people out to dry really was a consistent trait throughout the series.  It was completely in character that, even in her newly discovered sexuality, she couldn’t risk anything of herself, no matter what it cost others.

Yep. Mark, Kim, Dave, Chen. None of them mattered when Kerry wanted to save herself. And  to make matters worse was  how two-faced she was about it--pretending to be the person's friend and then stabbing them in the back. Right until the very end when she indignantly told Luka, "I took the fall for you", when in truth, she was gearing up to do exactly what she always did before finally having the guts and the decency to accept her due punishment. 

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Camille said:

As much as I disliked Kerry, that pissed me off. While Sandy has every right to not want to date someone who wants to hide their relationship, and Kerry did need to get over herself and her paranoia,  it is NOT Sandy's place to out Kerry and declare that she "did her a favor".

I remember at the time many people online were absolutely disgusted when Kerry pursued Sandy after such a fundamental betrayal.  It wasn’t Sandy’s truth to tell and, while Kerry might’ve been better off in the long run for not having to hide, there was nothing romantic or kind about what Sandy did. It was cruel and she did it In anger not love; that Kerry would want to be with her after that was appalling.

[txhorns79]

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I remember at the time many people online were absolutely disgusted when Kerry pursued Sandy after such a fundamental betrayal.  It wasn’t Sandy’s truth to tell and, while Kerry might’ve been better off in the long run for not having to hide, there was nothing romantic or kind about what Sandy did. It was cruel and she did it In anger not love; that Kerry would want to be with her after that was appalling.

I guess they felt they didn't want to have to bring in a third person to serve as Kerry's longterm girlfriend, so they stuck with Sandy.  And I agree that what Sandy did was cruel.    

Quote

I did like how they wrote Kerry (most of the time). Weaker shows take a character that is abrasive and then flip them to 100% likeable or close to it. Kerry keeps her lousy social skills throughout and this tendency to hang others out to dry (often right about the time you are starting to really be on her side).

It's interesting.  I was watching the episode where Kerry accidentally ends up killing the alderman's boyfriend because she was giving him off the books penicillin, and it turned out he was allergic.  It was fascinating to see Kerry quickly try to cover things up, while simultaneously recognizing her actions and being horrified as the gravity of what she had done sunk in. 

And I do give credit to Carter for having the courage to walk away from Abby.  There are a lot of people who would have been swept up in the romance of a proposal, and that he was able to back off showed something. 

Edited July 26, 2018 by txhorns79

[debraran]

8 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I guess they felt they didn't want to have to bring in a third person to serve as Kerry's longterm girlfriend, so they stuck with Sandy.  And I agree that what Sandy did was cruel.    

It's interesting.  I was watching the episode where Kerry accidentally ends up killing the alderman's boyfriend because she was giving him off the books penicillin, and it turned out he was allergic.  It was fascinating to see Kerry quickly try to cover things up, while simultaneously recognizing her actions and being horrified as the gravity of what she had done sunk in. 

And I do give credit to Carter for having the courage to walk away from Abby.  There are a lot of people who would have been swept up in the romance of a proposal, and that he was able to back off showed something. 

Yes, I remember being disgusted Sandy did that to Kerry, no matter what issues someone has, how long it took Kerry to "come out" to friends or employers, that was her call. Kissing her at work was wrong but I'm sure they thought it was a ratings booster.  And it set up Romano's "Try to keep the public displays of affection to a minimum.  This is a workplace, not a parade. "

[RedbirdNelly]

I watched Season 15, episode 4 last night and it deserves a note for "episode where actor shows up for the 2nd time on ER but is playing a different character." Molly Price (had to look her up) plays Mrs. O'Fallen, a mom whose daughter has a broken leg and turns out that was caused by Mrs. O'Fallen's other psychopathic daughter. She also was on Third Watch, a show I did not watch--but I did watch the episode where Susan goes to New York in search of missing Suzy and Third Watch people are involved. Molly Price's Third Watch police officer character helps look for Suzy (along with her partner whose name I don't know but he also played Collin, artist boyfriend of Kelly on 90210).

[Dr.OO7]

18 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I was watching the episode where Kerry accidentally ends up killing the alderman's boyfriend because she was giving him off the books penicillin, and it turned out he was allergic.  It was fascinating to see Kerry quickly try to cover things up, while simultaneously recognizing her actions and being horrified as the gravity of what she had done sunk in. 

I had hated Kerry long before that storyline, but it put the nail in her coffin for me. She would have fired anyone who pulled a stunt like that, but she gets away with it and is named Chief of Staff? Are you fucking kidding me?

[jewel21]

12 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I watched Season 15, episode 4 last night and it deserves a note for "episode where actor shows up for the 2nd time on ER but is playing a different character." Molly Price (had to look her up) plays Mrs. O'Fallen, a mom whose daughter has a broken leg and turns out that was caused by Mrs. O'Fallen's other psychopathic daughter. She also was on Third Watch, a show I did not watch--but I did watch the episode where Susan goes to New York in search of missing Suzy and Third Watch people are involved. Molly Price's Third Watch police officer character helps look for Suzy (along with her partner whose name I don't know but he also played Collin, artist boyfriend of Kelly on 90210).

Third Watch fan, here. Molly Price played Faith Yokas on" Third Watch," and her partner's name was Bosco, short for Maurice Boscorelli. He was played by Jason Wiles, who I was believe was in the Bon Jovi music video "Always" with Keri Russel. 

[txhorns79]

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I had hated Kerry long before that storyline, but it put the nail in her coffin for me. She would have fired anyone who pulled a stunt like that, but she gets away with it and is named Chief of Staff? Are you fucking kidding me?

I mean, I'm not shocked Kerry ended up covering up the event, and saved herself, but yes, it really does color her character going forward.  Though the show kind of forgets it ever happened.  Or at least, I don't recall the show ever revisiting this issue.   Instead Kerry suddenly lands in a Lifetime movie fighting Sandy's family for custody of her child.  

As to Romano, after his arm is cut off, they have these moments during that storyline where you see his struggle and realization that all is lost that show good acting and work well.  However, they then have ridiculous storylines, like Romano being put in charge of the ER (as though any doctor can just run that department) where he terrorizes the staff and patients in a way that really should have had him fired on Day One.   

[Dr.OO7]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

However, they then have ridiculous storylines, like Romano being put in charge of the ER (as though any doctor can just run that department) where he terrorizes the staff and patients in a way that really should have had him fired on Day One.   

I hated storylines like that. In season 5, the search for a new ER chief takes two nationwide searches over a year and is ultimately unsuccessful, but in season 6, Romano is named Chief of STAFF within one day and Kerry is finally appointed ER Chief in the same day. (and I hated the way she screwed Mark over for that, not that I had much sympathy for him).

Then years later, the two of them switch positions in the blink of an eye.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Then years later, the two of them switch positions in the blink of an eye.

Yeah, it was all sorts of ridiculous.  Carter, out of all people, was entirely right when he noted that you can't just put a doctor without real experience in emergency medicine in charge of the entire department.  And that doesn't even get into Romano's terrible attitude, and extremely offensive way of speaking to other staff and patients.  

[debraran]

6 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Yeah, it was all sorts of ridiculous.  Carter, out of all people, was entirely right when he noted that you can't just put a doctor without real experience in emergency medicine in charge of the entire department.  And that doesn't even get into Romano's terrible attitude, and extremely offensive way of speaking to other staff and patients.  

That bit with Romano I feel was because they knew they were killing him off and wanted to make him REALLY unlikable. It didn't ring true to me then or to my daughter watching it fresh for the first time.  He had some awful statements come out of his mouth but many were snarky and funny or putting down the surgical skills of the ER "Did you use a hacksaw on this guy?"  The robotic hand and grabbing (accidentally) the nurses butt was not him at all and stealing his hand ? That went beyond ridiculous. I felt it was spiraling at the time and then got it's feet back later.

I found these outtakes and toward the last few minutes there is a joke with Romano and Lucy when she goes to his house to get him to come to the hospital. That was funny, , That must have been a funny set.

Edited July 27, 2018 by debraran

[debraran]

I never saw this deleted scene from after Mark's funeral either. No bloopers but a really nice scene I wish they left.

[Bastet]

Peter looks great in those glasses.

On a far less shallow note, that was a really good scene, and I'm retroactively annoyed they cut it.  Not only is it good on its own, but it's odd to cut an actual scene with Eriq LaSalle at that point in the series!

I remember that Cleo was weird about Elizabeth, so it's nice that she hung back and gave them the moment together they deserve.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

Something that I wished about this show was that the couples had more chemistry with each other. The only good chemistry I felt was between Elizabeth/Peter, but everyone else left much to be desired. Oh and I guess Hathaway/Ross. 

I know we've beaten the poor horse to death on this, but I still don't get why everyone and their mom was all about Neela, or Abby. I mean they had even that one Asian chick kiss Neela at Abby's wedding, good lord. 

[Dr.OO7]

5 hours ago, Bastet said:

remember that Cleo was weird about Elizabeth, so it's nice that she hung back and gave them the moment together they deserve.

That always annoyed me. Bitch, the man dated the woman for five minutes a year before he even met you, quit getting all pissy and jealous every time you see them together. And your mother's white, so stop being a hypocrite by acting pissy about that too. 

[debraran]

9 hours ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

Something that I wished about this show was that the couples had more chemistry with each other. The only good chemistry I felt was between Elizabeth/Peter, but everyone else left much to be desired. Oh and I guess Hathaway/Ross. 

I know we've beaten the poor horse to death on this, but I still don't get why everyone and their mom was all about Neela, or Abby. I mean they had even that one Asian chick kiss Neela at Abby's wedding, good lord. 

Yes, the Neela thing almost (well it did) get comical. Everyone had to have Neela, poor Ray, Tony, Dubanko, the list goes on but that girl at the wedding, I thought, "Is this a wink from the writers?"

I loved that deleted scene because it showed humanity, it showed how many feel after a loved one dies, the confusion, anger, etc. It was a segue from the cemetery to the balloon scene later with Rachel and it showed a great scene with Peter who knew he had to just listen and look good. : ) I liked Romano too, especially after a much later flashback show with Greene, they  said he couldn't come to the funeral. They showed him at the grave site also but he never would have missed this. In an odd way, those too, Robert and Lizzie had more chemistry than a lot of the other couples. One of my favorite lines from Romano to Lizzie about death was "

"Amazing how the human body can turn on itself. The very process we need to grow in the womb, to regenerate ourselves, systematically eating us alive. But no-one's sacred. Little girls. Fathers with little girls. Cancer. Brain cancer, liver cancer, breast cancer. It's the same traitor. The merciless unrelenting predator. Like time itself."

__________________

Edited July 28, 2018 by debraran

[txhorns79]

Watching the episodes on Pop!, there really is no coming back for Abby and Carter after Abby's brother falls into Gamma Carter's grave.  I very much sympathize with Abby, because having family members with mental illness, particularly when you really are the only lifeline for those people, can be exhausting and all consuming.  Having said that, I also understand why Carter would just be at the end of his rope, particularly when it feels like there is no end to this, and you can see how you will always be second to other people in your girlfriend's life.  There really are no villains here.

Edited July 29, 2018 by txhorns79

[MVFrostsMyPie]

I guess Kovac is lucky Abby’s mom and brother decided to stay on their meds long-term when she and him decided to date again. Bad timing for Carter & Abby in a way, although they never would have made it. Frankly, I feel like Abby & Kovac would be divorced by now anyway.... unless they both miraculously shaped up and have become great communicators and gotten better personalities).

[RedbirdNelly]

last night I watched the season 15 episode where we find out what happened to Angela Bassett's son. I had forgotten it involved flashing back to ER when Mark was fighting cancer. It was nice to see Mark again, and I enjoyed the brief moments with other characters--Kerry, Romano, Jerry---that let you know what stage of Mark's sickness we were at. It was well done.

[Dr.OO7]

I'm watching "Blood, Sugar, Sex, Magic" for the absolutely GLORIOUS scene where Dave tells off Kerry (the homophobic slur aside). Magnificent. Finally a dose of the public humiliation she had been doling out to everyone for years and no doubt what those people had wanted to say to her.

WTF was Elizabeth's problem in "Never Say Never"? I really didn't like her bitchiness to and about Susan, especially when Susan was clearly trying to make a friendly gesture.

[txhorns79]

Quote

WTF was Elizabeth's problem in "Never Say Never"? I really didn't like her bitchiness to and about Susan, especially when Susan was clearly trying to make a friendly gesture.

It was a pattern with the women on ER.  Cleo was jealous of Elizabeth, Chen was jealous of Neela and Elizabeth acted as though she was jealous of Susan.  I think Abby even acted somewhat jealous of Luka's French girlfriend after he returned from not being dead in Africa. 

[Dr.OO7]

4 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

It was a pattern with the women on ER.  Cleo was jealous of Elizabeth, Chen was jealous of Neela and Elizabeth acted as though she was jealous of Susan.  I think Abby even acted somewhat jealous of Luka's French girlfriend after he returned from not being dead in Africa. 

Yes, and it was always so irrational. From the first season, Carol acted jealous anytime she saw Doug with another woman, even though literally only five minutes earlier, she'd been telling him to leave her alone. Then there's Jenn always acting antsy about Mark's friendship with Susan--when SHE was the one cheating, Cleo's jealous of Elizabeth even though she and Peter broke up a year before he even met her, Elizabeth's jealous of Susan even though she's shown no interest in Mark, Chen's jealous of Neela even though Neela doesn't even know about Chen and Pratt's relationship, etc.

Abby was also jealous of Nicole--I hate that scene of her and Chuny mocking her. The 8th season really made Abby unpleasant. She just seemed to always be bitching about something.

It's exhausting and frankly, sexist. The men had their moments, but never to the petty extent that the women did.

[Bastet]

16 minutes ago, Camille said:

WTF was Elizabeth's problem in "Never Say Never"? I really didn't like her bitchiness to and about Susan, especially when Susan was clearly trying to make a friendly gesture.

That sexist stereotype particularly pissed me off with Elizabeth/Susan, because Elizabeth was not like that.  She consistently and deliberately sought out the company of the women she worked with, and was very breezy about who had ties to who.  For her to be randomly and irrationally snippy about Mark's friendship with Susan was ridiculous.  I mean, Cleo being jealous because Peter and Elizabeth used to date was obviously ridiculous, too, but I didn't know enough about Cleo to say whether or not that was characteristic of her.  With Elizabeth, it wasn't just the general annoyance of most women being presented that way in fiction, it was specifically that it didn't work for the character.

[Dr.OO7]

7 minutes ago, Bastet said:

That sexist stereotype particularly pissed me off with Elizabeth/Susan, because Elizabeth was not like that.  She consistently and deliberately sought out the company of the women she worked with, and was very breezy about who had ties to who.  For her to be randomly and irrationally snippy about Mark's friendship with Susan was ridiculous.

I thought the same thing, and it's one of the reasons I hated it. The Elizabeth I knew and loved would have been happy to meet Susan and even teased her and Mark about their previous relationship and lightheartedly joked "He's mine now", not rudely rebuffed Susan's offer of coffee with a pointed, "I don't drink coffee, I'm BREASTFEEDING" and stormed off.

In other words, "I bore his child,  so you stay away from him, you tramp."

Kerry fucking over Chen was utterly reprehensible. And to make matters worse, she has the nerve to pretend to be Chen's friend before, during, and after--"I'm so sorry about this, I went on record against this", etc.

I hated how she would always treat people like crap and then act genuinely confused and hurt as to why no one liked her.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Camille