The Closer - General Discussion

[andromeda331]

I wish she had too. But I want Brenda to be the one who kills him. She had been trying to catch him

since what season four?   

[AnnaMayWong]

Such a GOOD (!) show. I miss it, too. And, ya'll are correct. MAJOR CRIMES does not fill the void.

...wonder what's goin' on with Brenda...(and Gabriel...)

[shapeshifter]

"Good Faith," 4.11 just aired on over-the-air TV. I never realized before that Brenda refrained from blaiming Morales everytime Pope complained that she was making a murder out of a suicide. Just once she said that the forensic facts didn't fit a suicide. Maybe because she was afraid Pope might start declaring a murder to the press, which would screw up her tactics.

[MaryMitch]

Just rewatched "Waivers of Extradition" - the episode with the guy who delivers cars along the interstate from El Paso to Los Angeles, murdering young women along the way, wearing a ninja costume and taking a souvenir from each murder.

Boy, this was intense. The guy who played the murderer Jesse Ray Moore ("Why do they always have three names?") was so creepy!  And the El Paso detective really was clever the way he manipulated Brenda, especially at the end.

At the end of the chase, with the highway repair equipment tossed all around and the highway workers scattered, and Julio with a probable broken arm  (Julio is such a badass!), Gabriel's first comment "Look what you did to my car!" just cracked me up.

[Spartan Girl]

I watched "Home Wrecker" last week, and I have to say that even though what happened to the family was horrendous, I couldn't feel too sorry for the dad. Having two families so that he could live the good life with one while neglecting the other? Yeah I don't blame the son for killing him. He was the only one that had it coming.

Still the poor other son, having his whole family slaughtered and almost taking the fall for the murder...I wish the episode made it clearer what happened to him.

[MaryMitch]

A bit of an overreaction, don't you think? Killing his father? There's something wrong with that boy.

[Spartan Girl]

4 hours ago, MaryMitch said:

A bit of an overreaction, don't you think? Killing his father? There's something wrong with that boy.

True, but to be fair, when he confronted his father and his other wife, he had the nerve to try to cover it up by acting like the kid was some juvenile delinquent from the prison he "worked" at. That was just low.

[zxy556575]

I started watching the series last month and am halfway through season 5 -- gotta say that Brenda is really starting to chap my hide. She runs roughshod over everyone to get her way: co-workers, suspects, witnesses, her boss, and especially Fritz. Her lies and manipulation aren't nearly as cute as she thinks they are, and her proven success doesn't mitigate her tactics. Actually, the fact that she always wins is another annoyance.

I could also do without Chief Pope moping after Brenda. He was married, she's now married, and she's never given him the least shred of hope that she was interested in starting up with him again. IT'S OVER, DUDE.

Glad to get that off my chest. Thank yew very much!

[Spartan Girl]

"War Zone" was on last night.  Again, I know what Brenda did was technically wrong, but forgive me if I don't shed any tears for Turrell Baylor, who murdered two innocent people (including a child) and was responsible for the deaths of three soldiers, including his own brother, not to mention purposely tricked the police into giving him immunity without any remorse for his crimes.

[Bastet]

I didn't care for this show when it premiered, but I recently borrowed a friend's DVDs to give it a second chance.

Brenda's personality flaws are largely interesting to me, but sometimes the childish refusal to play well with others gets to be too much.  I watched one where she was involved in a minor fender-bender (her fault) and, not knowing LAPD regulations require her to call it in and stay on scene until the traffic division investigates, just gave the guy her information and left.  So the traffic captain shows up and, yes, is a total asshole (since everyone outside of Brenda's department is incompetent and/or offensive), but she refuses to so much as fill out the paperwork.  Hello!  You damaged a department vehicle and that of a civilian.  The civilian is claiming whiplash.  There will be forms to fill out, and running to Pope demanding that he make it go away because she's just too important to deal with such trifling stuff is ridiculous.

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

"War Zone" was on last night.  Again, I know what Brenda did was technically wrong, but forgive me if I don't shed any tears for Turrell Baylor, who murdered two innocent people (including a child) and was responsible for the deaths of three soldiers, including his own brother, not to mention purposely tricked the police into giving him immunity without any remorse for his crimes.

Neither do I.

[Raja]

I can't believe Blindsided came up in rotation this weekend. Officers under sniper fire on what started to look like the normal comedy episode which follows a dark one when Chief Johnson killed a reactivated serial killer. It would have been postponed if it was first run on TNT.

[shapeshifter]

6.12, "High Crimes" just reaired, and I've decided it's a favorite. Lot's of good lines, delivery, and direction. And I just noticed for the first time that during the first half of the case (including when the team are dressed for undercover as pot heads) that Brenda, even though she is not undercover, has two little braids in her hair--like I used to wear in the 70s along with long skirts and "Mary Jane" (to quote Provenza) growing in my window.

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

6.12, "High Crimes" just reaired, and I've decided it's a favorite. Lot's of good lines, delivery, and direction. And I just noticed for the first time that during the first half of the case (including when the team are dressed for undercover as pot heads) that Brenda, even though she is not undercover, has two little braids in her hair--like I used to wear in the 70s along with long skirts and "Mary Jane" (to quote Provenza) growing in my window.

Its one of my favorites for the same reasons. I love all of Provenza's comments during the episode  from "hippies and your Mary Jane", when Delko calls him over to talk and asks his age he answers "Six Chiefs and Counting", plus at the end summing up the case as one drug dealer killing another over money. The happy witness who was high and didn't think it was strange that three men were wearing helmets especially and assuring Brenda there are no stupid questions. Tao's undercover clothes. 

[shapeshifter]

2 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Its one of my favorites for the same reasons. I love all of Provenza's comments during the episode  from "hippies and your Mary Jane", when Delko calls him over to talk and asks his age he answers "Six Chiefs and Counting", plus at the end summing up the case as one drug dealer killing another over money. The happy witness who was high and didn't think it was strange that three men were wearing helmets especially and assuring Brenda there are no stupid questions. Tao's undercover clothes. 

Yes. Delk was very stern with Provenza until they closed the cases, and then he had a bemused look while Provenza was again stating his beliefs about legal pot sellers being drug dealers etc. 

Also, on this viewing I caught Tao hitching up his under cover pants (with a heavy belt buckle) twice: First upon getting out of the under cover van, and then in the squad room, followed immediately by an indescribable look on Brenda's face. I wondered if they were supposed to be gangsta style saggy pants, and he just wasn't comfortable with that style, or if it was just the heavy buckle. Probably it was a real life problem with the costume that they decided to leave in because it worked.

[Bastet]

I just finished the series, and will now watch Major Crimes, but I'm so bummed there wasn't another season with both Brenda and Raydor.  Their evolving relationship became my favorite thing about the show.

Watching the whole series in such a short span of time, the number of times Flynn and Provenza stumbled into something started to feel ridiculous, but I really enjoyed each of those episodes on their own.

I usually wish procedurals would have more character development, then when they do go into the characters' personal lives, I'm utterly bored (or annoyed) with those storylines and just want to get back to the case.  This show got it right. 

[hatchetgirl]

I'm rewatchng and just finished the episode where Provenza's old partner George is now Georgette.  I wish Georgette would show up on Major Crimes.

[MaryMitch]

9 hours ago, hatchetgirl said:

I'm rewatchng and just finished the episode where Provenza's old partner George is now Georgette.  I wish Georgette would show up on Major Crimes.

One thing that bugged me about Georgette - those eyebrows! No woman who was as stylish as Georgette would have those eyebrows! Yeah, I know the Beau Bridges wasn't going to trim his eyebrows for the part, but it took me right out of the episode. But still, loved the last scene with Georgette walking away in those slingbacks.

[hatchetgirl]

You are so right about those brows.

[Bastet]

Upon reading the episode summary, I was really nervous how they were going to present a transgender character, but while I don't think it triggered any GLAAD awards, my cringing was largely for naught.  I seem to be largely re-watching the show as I go back through the DVDs to watch special features - looking at the episode list of each disc and thinking, "Oh, I have to watch that one again!" at least once - so I'll examine it more closely when it comes up in the rotation.

I didn't mention this in my first post, but this show has one of my favorite presentations of pet ownership on television.  I understand how difficult it is to shoot with animals (particularly cats - as a cat mom) so I understand why pet ownership on TV is so much less common than in reality, but I appreciate seeing it, especially in such a natural way.  Kitty (and then Joel) are omnipresent and important parts of Brenda and Fritz's home life and it's always nice to see.  Poor Miss Kitty.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Bastet

[Bastet]

Brenda is so great with the surviving rape victim in Cherry Bomb.  Brenda, who will normally stop at nothing to close her case and who at this point still believes it's a murder, not a suicide, with the dead victim, realizes this girl really doesn't have it in her to report it and backs off, telling her not to be sorry and "you've already done enough things you didn't want to do." 

It makes the moment at the end, when it turns out she's waiting in Brenda's office ready to testify, all the more satisfying.  And Brenda just walks in and hugs her. 

Although there were about seven years between roles, the actor playing the dead victim was instantly recognizable to me as the little girl from my favorite episode of L&O: SVU - she played Sophie Douglas in Countdown.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Bastet

[starri]

On 7/27/2016 at 0:19 AM, Bastet said:

Kitty (and then Joel) are omnipresent and important parts of Brenda and Fritz's home life and it's always nice to see.  Poor Miss Kitty.

I'm making myself vulnerable here, but I totally cried when she had to put Kitty to sleep.

"I wish I knew what you were thinking."  Sniff.

[Spartan Girl]

"Under Control" is on. This was the first episode that I ever saw. The dad that killed his son to get back at the ex wife was awful, no doubt, but I had no pity for her either. She was just as hateful and spiteful and obsessed with revenge as he was. So when she started sniveling about her "baby boy", I just rolled my eyes.

The only one that deserved sympathy was that poor kid, a casualty of of the nastiest divorce ever.

[treeofdreams]

Yes, some people should not be married, or be parents.

Fortunately, one of my favorite Flynn/Provenza episodes was also on.  So much humor in that episode.  I miss their hijinks so much!

The writers are very good at both the humorous and the darker episodes; it makes the series well balanced.  I wouldn't want to watch a whole season of episodes like "Under Control".

[Bastet]

Last night I fell asleep with the last disc of season seven playing, and when it came to the episode where Willie Ray dies, Brenda's screaming for Fritz startled me out of a sound sleep.  It's so raw and urgent. 

Since I was awake, I rewound and decided to watch Fritz this time.  We don't see him much, as they pretty quickly cut back to Brenda, but in those brief moments you can see what a great job Jon Tenney did, conveying the fear and confusion as Fritz enters the room in response to her screams.  And then the look on his face when he realizes what's going on and drags Brenda out of the room.  The scene is all Kyra Sedgwick's, and she nails it, but he also plays it perfectly.  (And Frances Sternhagen does a creepily good job of looking dead.) 

[hatchetgirl]

That episode was truly brilliant.  Both of the actors (Jon and Kyra) were so amazing!  I was amazed at Kyra's acting.  

The episode that I just HATED the bad guy was that last season with the police commissioner's wife who was drunk driving.  Elizabeth Perkins did a great job, but goodness I hated her stupid character!

[Spartan Girl]

God, "Problem Child" is on. I could have lived a long happy life without being subjected to the sight of that poor dead dog.

Sergei was the AntiChrist and I'll shed no tears for him. But those parents were almost as big as sociopaths as him, acting like concerned parents and trying to frame Sergei's "friend" (who really tuned out to be another of Sergei's victims) and then even THEIR OWN DAUGHTER for the murder they committed. I don't blame that girl for being hateful and bitter towards her parents: he tortured poor cat and they did nothing about it.

[Raja]

7 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

God, "Problem Child" is on. I could have lived a long happy life without being subjected to the sight of that poor dead dog.

Sergei was the AntiChrist and I'll shed no tears for him. But those parents were almost as big as sociopaths as him, acting like concerned parents and trying to frame Sergei's "friend" (who really tuned out to be another of Sergei's victims) and then even THEIR OWN DAUGHTER for the murder they committed. I don't blame that girl for being hateful and bitter towards her parents: he tortured poor cat and they did nothing about it.

It was just that weekend, I had to check and see if the episodes are in order or they moved to mini themes.Following Sergei is a 14 year old who kills Julio's brother because he didn't respond to the "where you from challange

[shapeshifter]

At the end of "Problem Child" Fritz and Brenda have a talk about the size of the house and its proximity to schools they should be seeking, concluding with Brenda evidently not wanting to risk having a child like Sergei (at least that's my interpretation).The Closer's spinoff, Major Crimes, has developed into Brenda's successor, Sharon Raydor, adopting Rusty, a different kind of problem child. Seeing this episode now, I wondered if Brenda and Fritz could have been good parents to Rusty; I concluded that Sharon Raydor's temperament and open, honest approach worked with Rusty, and that Brenda's way would have been too much like Rusty's duplicious bio-mom.

[treeofdreams]

I didn't see any connection between Sergei and Brenda not wanting children.  I think it was just that she is so focused on her job that she would make a terrible mother - and to her credit, she realized that. 

With the careers both Brenda and Fritz have, who would take care of a child?  I don't see Brenda quitting her job to stay at home - or Fritz, for that matter.

I am just glad we were spared the Brenda pregnancy storyline!

[zxy556575]

Not to mention that Brenda's kind of old to have a child! I don't think her age was ever specified but I always figured around 40 when she took the job in LA. You know. Like the age of the actress playing her.

[Bastet]

Brenda turned 40 or 41 during one of the early seasons.

One of the few things I disliked about Fritz is how he kept on about kids after they got married, when she'd made it clear she didn't want kids.  That wonderful conversation about school districts/bigger houses (in other words, kids), when she asks if that's something he wants, he says that would have to be a joint decision, and she says, "I don't think we need to worry about schools."  It was settled, but then he'd bring it up sometimes.  Um, Fritz, does that really strike you as something about which she's going to change her mind?  Or something it would be a good idea for her to change her mind about?

The other strike against my otherwise TV boyfriend is how he'd get huffy about her job being dangerous and try to stop her from doing certain things.  I hate when people do that -- choose to get involved with someone who has a dangerous job (or a time-consuming one, which is the other scenario in which this is typical) and then complain about that fact.  You knew going in!  It was particularly ridiculous here, since he's an FBI agent.  Being concerned, sure.  But not when he'd try and tell her not to do something.

[treeofdreams]

Fritz knew going into this marriage what Brenda was like - not only that she had a dangerous job, but the way she did it - lying, manipulating, running roughshod over everyone, letting it override everything else in her life, and even before they were married using him without his knowledge or consent to achieve her ends.  And yet he chose to marry her.  Did he really expect her to change?

[hatchetgirl]

Agreed about Fritz and the job.  What bothered me more was it was always ok when he had to head out to work but oh no, Brenda couldn't.  Nope, she needed to stay home and make cookies for the boys "teehee".

[andromeda331]

So do I. I hate spouses get all huffy over the danger the other one is in. It drives me crazy. This case is a perfect example of that. Fritz knows Brenda, he knew from the moment they started dating. He knew what her job was, how much she loved it and how much she throws herself into it. How she wants to be there when the arrest is made, during the stake outs ,etc. There was no way he didn't know what he was getting into. If he wanted a wife who didn't work a dangerous job then he shouldn't have married a cop.  And as it was pointed out.  His job isn't any safer as an FBI agent. Why is it okay for him to do the same thing? In season six when he's pushing her to take the chief of police job because her job was too dangerous even though he should already know that's not a job Brenda would ever want.  I liked it better when they worked together.

[Spartan Girl]

"Armed Response" was on. Man, I wish there had been an extra scene of Brenda telling Dick Dad that his daughter lied about being raped and tricked him into killing an innocent man.

Poor Gabriel. He didn't deserved to be duped by Goldman's bimbo intern. And the fact that he basically roped her into it by saying they were crooked cops just pisses me off. After all his sanctimonious speeches about Brenda's unethical tactics, he bribes/prostiutes an intern into spying on the police?! Hello, pot! Meet kettle!

There should have been a mention of Raydor and Pope turning his slimey ass into the Bar Association,

[shapeshifter]

The character of Peter Goldman appeared in the 4-part season finale of last season's Major Crimes, but I dislike the character so much — and also the dragged out season finale arc — that I have no idea what evil deeds he was up to that time. But I vaguely recall that he did to some degree finally get put in his place.

I do think that The Closer did have one of the most satisfying series finales of many shows. This past year the boards have been burning up with scorn for series ending arcs such as Castle and Rizzoli & Isles.

[Bastet]

Quote

There should have been a mention of Raydor and Pope turning his slimey ass into the Bar Association,

Part of the settlement of the federal suit included the defendants agreeing not to pursue ethical violation charges against him.

Goldman was an interesting character, because he was a stereotypical weasel of a lawyer brought in as an antagonist to the main character, but the plaintiffs he was representing were spot on.  Brenda - brought in to get confessions by the book in the wake of all the corruption that had been revealed - had a disturbing history of arranging extra-judicial executions when she couldn't. 

I felt bad for Gabriel, but stepping back and looking at the timeline, he started sharing information he shouldn't have with Ann very early on in their relationship.  It's easy to look at him at the end, in love with her, living with her, thinking he'd marry her someday, but even that is only a year into the relationship.  Working backward, he was baring his soul from jump.  And Ann is such an idiot, all crying and asking him to talk to her and forgive her.  Again, the timeline -- the overwhelming majority of their relationship was spent with her knowing he was not a crooked cop (she's realized it at least as early as when she keeps him from being subpoenaed at the same time everyone else is) yet still going along with the original plan.  Quit, report Goldman to the state bar and pay your own way through law school, jeez.

As a huge fan of Raydor, I love that whole lawsuit arc.  She has Brenda's back when no one else does (right up until the bitter end; she tries to refuse the "Johnson Rule" settlement on behalf of LAPD, even though it's absolutely in the department's best interest to accept) and it's nice to see Brenda slowly come to realize and appreciate that.  I think Brenda offered more genuine "thank you"s to Raydor in those final months than she ever has to anyone else in her life.

Edited September 4, 2016 by Bastet

[zxy556575]

13 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Goldman was an interesting character, because he was a stereotypical weasel of a lawyer brought in as an antagonist to the main character, but the plaintiffs he was representing were spot on.  Brenda - brought in to get confessions by the book in the wake of all the corruption that had been revealed - had a disturbing history of arranging extra-judicial executions when she couldn't. 

That speech he gave listing the other cases against Brenda he intended to pursue was pretty damming. She did a lot of shit that crossed the line, imo.

And also? The squad room (and entire police building) seriously needs better security; anyone can apparently wander in off the street.

[Bastet]

Quote

And also? The squad room (and entire police building) seriously needs better security; anyone can apparently wander in off the street.

I love when Provenza is huffing and puffing that LAPD will inevitably make a new rule after the suspect who was not properly searched pulled out a gun and shot himself in an interview room (after intending to kill Brenda) and Gabriel says, "If there are people getting into the building with guns, maybe there should be a new rule!"

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

The character of Peter Goldman appeared in the 4-part season finale of last season's Major Crimes, but I dislike the character so much — and also the dragged out season finale arc — that I have no idea what evil deeds he was up to that time. But I vaguely recall that he did to some degree finally get put in his place.

Just looked that up. Still wish he could have gotten his comeuppance sooner, but better late than never.

 

2 hours ago, lordonia said:

That speech he gave listing the other cases against Brenda he intended to pursue was pretty damming. She did a lot of shit that crossed the line, imo.

Yes, but given his OWN unethical behavior that was later uncovered, he just comes off as a massive hypocrite.

[starri]

I just discovered this, but on iTunes, they have a special playlist for purchase of Kyra's personal favorite episodes.  She likes a lot of the same ones I do, including Maternal Instincts, which I'm about 90% sure is the episode that won her her Emmy.

[ButterQueen]

On 3/2/2016 at 6:01 AM, BookElitist said:

Such a GOOD (!) show. I miss it, too. And, ya'll are correct. MAJOR CRIMES does not fill the void.

...wonder what's goin' on with Brenda...(and Gabriel...)

I agree.  I miss this show so much.  

[andromeda331]

On ‎6‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 10:05 PM, ButterQueen said:

I agree.  I miss this show so much.  

So do I.

[ButterQueen]

Attention Brenda Fans:

10 Days In The Valley (New Series)

10/01/17

ABC  

10:00 pm

Starring Kyra Sedgwick 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt6461706/ 

[DeaconBlues]

Just chiming in to say I really miss this show.   Seasons 1 through 5 especially are some of the best hours of TV of the late 2000s. Great cast of characters and mix of comedy and drama.

[andromeda331]

12 hours ago, DeaconBlues said:

Just chiming in to say I really miss this show.   Seasons 1 through 5 especially are some of the best hours of TV of the late 2000s. Great cast of characters and mix of comedy and drama.

Me too. It was funny and fun. A great cast of characters. I miss the show. I miss Kitty and Joel.

[hatchetgirl]

On 1/21/2018 at 0:59 PM, andromeda331 said:

Me too. It was funny and fun. A great cast of characters. I miss the show. I miss Kitty and Joel.

I'm on season 2 of rewatch, maybe 5? Dang this darn show is so good. Well written to include fritz from the beginning, the slow intro to affair with the Pope, etc.  Every episode known well but details forgotten. Nice and still surprising. Love it. The city is such an important member of the cast, I'm finding on this watch. Why, it's downright romantical...

[Xeliou66]

Watched Grave Doubts recently, and god Gabriel was a such an annoying prick. The way he tried to physically stop Brenda from entering the interrogation room at the end was inexcusable, he wanted to protect a murderer simply because he had done some good works since then, Gabriel was an asswipe. He was also extremely self righteous with Flynn the entire episode, yelling at him for his criticism of Father Jack, Flynn and Gabriel’s back and forth was funny though. I have to say, I loved seeing Gabriel fall from grace in season 7 and I’m so glad he didn’t continue on on Major Crimes and we got the far superior Sykes in his place.

Grave Doubts was an awesome episode for Provenza though, he had some great scenes in that one and he took the case more personally because he had spoken to the victim and the victim’s body was found with his card. 

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Watched Grave Doubts recently, and god Gabriel was a such an annoying prick. The way he tried to physically stop Brenda from entering the interrogation room at the end was inexcusable, he wanted to protect a murderer simply because he had done some good works since then, Gabriel was an asswipe. He was also extremely self righteous with Flynn the entire episode, yelling at him for his criticism of Father Jack, Flynn and Gabriel’s back and forth was funny though. I have to say, I loved seeing Gabriel fall from grace in season 7 and I’m so glad he didn’t continue on on Major Crimes and we got the far superior Sykes in his place.

Grave Doubts was an awesome episode for Provenza though, he had some great scenes in that one and he took the case more personally because he had spoken to the victim and the victim’s body was found with his card. 

I agree. I couldn't believe that he wanted to protect a murderer. It bugged me that Gabriel didn't seem to have a problem that he killed his brother, he covered it up, showed up three different times to through his weigh around (aka keep them from solving the case), threatened a riot, and also as Brenda was interrogating him bring up the fact he tried to block building in the area where he knew his brother's body was. But I did like him breaking down in the interrogation room. I liked Brenda and Father Jack's interactions. Provenza's "And you thought nuns were tough." comment to Father Jack. His attempting to remembered by looking around the squad room. I too really liked Flynn's and Gabriel's back and forth it was really good.  I really liked at the end when Brenda tries to tell Provenza it really wasn't his fault the Riots were happening with a lot of murderers and stuff going on. Provenza's "I have a lot of really good excuses for not following up on a scared kid who wanted to turn his life around."