Chuck McGill: It's Electric!

[ghoulina]

I third that.

[editorgrrl]

Do we know when Jimmy passed the bar? Because it's been established that Chuck's psychiatric symptoms first presented two years ago, and he stopped going to work a year and a half ago.

It seems to me that Chuck's efforts to keep Jimmy from being an attorney at HHM also kept Chuck from being an attorney at HHM.

[ShadowFacts]

 

It seems to me that Chuck's efforts to keep Jimmy from being an attorney at HHM also kept Chuck from being an attorney at HHM.

 

If true, then it would have been therapeutic for Chuck to have just let the class action case go ahead with Jimmy on board.  Yet he persisted in his undermining of Jimmy.  Such a dick move, so very, very twisted.  And he was even whistling the next day.  Did not care that Jimmy was crushed. 

[wrestlesflamingos]

I like the title suggestion, lets wait until closer to the start of season 2. It's a spoilerish change. I think we should wait for Netflix.

Do we know when Jimmy passed the bar? Because it's been established that Chuck's psychiatric symptoms first presented two years ago, and he stopped going to work a year and a half ago.

It seems to me that Chuck's efforts to keep Jimmy from being an attorney at HHM also kept Chuck from being an attorney at HHM.

Chuck seemed surprised Jimmy passed the bar and went to Law School. Jimmy started by explaining he completed his undergraduate degree at Community College. So, either Chuck knew and internalized his stress and feigned innocence, or the actions aren't related but merely poetically balanced.

My point with fewer clauses: VG/PG are fancy thinkers.

[editorgrrl]

I see Chuck McGill as the one who's breaking bad here. He kept his inner Heisenberg well hidden, but Jimmy passing the bar was the catalyst for Chuck's decent into madness. Chuck did what he thought was right under the guise of taking care of his family, but all his family ever really wanted was his love and attention.

On a side note, what does Chuck do all day, other than read the newspaper? He can't even watch TV.

[wrestlesflamingos]

I don't see it as character shifting like a breaking bad requires. Jimmy is Jimmy, Chuck is Chuck. What we're seeing is wobbly lens type reveal of each of them. Sometimes it's a look at how clever Jimmy can be, or detached Chuck can seem. I think of it like forming an impression of someone new. Each new piece of information helps you find that person, like a map. Perhaps you start with a zone of 100 miles and imagine all the possible options in that space, as you get closer to the truth, the zone narrows and the options change. The characters struggle with the size of the zone, sometimes believing in the earlier wider version they once knew, creating imbalance in the personal dynamics.

Chuck may resent Jimmy because Chuck HAD to work hard. He may be a brilliant lawyer, as the show suggests, but he may not be naturally talented. It resonates in the accusal "I gave you everything!" Perhaps, subconsciously, Chuck always hopes Jimmy will fail, nullifying talent altogether.

Seriously, what does he do all day? Wait for dark, heat up his ancient fire hazard iron?

Edited April 1, 2015 by wrestlesflamingos
words

[ghoulina]

Chuck may resent Jimmy because Chuck HAD to work hard.

 

See, that attitude from Chuck annoys me, because it's not like Jimmy had everything handed to him on a silver platter. He had to work hard as well. His school may not have been prestigious, but he didn't cut corners. He went to school WHILE working. He took three tries to pass the bar. And everything we've seen from his as an acting lawyer this season has involved hard work. He hustles, he takes on any and every client the court will give him, he dives into a freaking trash can for crying out loud! Sure, he's a little gimmicky with his Jell-o and bingo sheets, but he is out there every day, on his own, busting his ass to get clients. Chuck has at least 10 years on Jimmy, so perhaps he has worked harder for longer. But that's not Jimmy's fault, and I see no reason for Chuck to act like he's some role model of a strong work ethic, while Jimmy just skated by. The dude is living and working in a small closet inside a nail salon! I don't see that as taking the easy route. 

[Ankai]

I could not find a general "Better Call Saul" thread aside from that no Breaking Bad thread, so I am posting this here. When I started typing out this post, I had not thought this all of the way through, so if it starts coming across as nonsensical or…problematic…then I apologize beforehand.

 

I like reading historical non-fiction books. For some reason, though, I have this tendency to apply what I had read to other things if there is the slight chance that they apply. The last history book that I had read was about pop music in America from the 1890s to the 1970s, but the book before THAT was The Boston Irish: A Political History. Now, does that have anything to do with Better Call Saul? No, not directly, but I found some parallels, as tenuous as they may be.
Now, I have no real connection to Irish people or Irish Americans beyond some people whom I know, and I would kind of feel embarrassed to pry into their family traditions to confirm any of this, so this may all come across as nonsense, but here goes.

First, I am pretty sure that I remember Saul saying that he has an Irish background. McGill could be Scottish, but I remember him saying that he was Irish. Hamlin originally came from the Norman French and could be English or Irish. For the sake of this post, I will say that it is English. If my brief internet information gathering is correct (and it may not be), McGill means “son of the stranger” while Hamlin means “home”. Hamlin is the insider, while McGill is the perpetual outsider. Vince Gilligan was brought up Catholic, though I don’t know if he was Irish Catholic. I don’t know how many Catholics there were in Farmville, Virginia when he was growing up. Maybe that could affect how he approaches his shows, maybe not.

 

In the penultimate episode of the season, Mike overtly distinguishes the good/bad dichotomy from the criminal/not criminal dichotomy. One is not necessarily bad for breaking the law or good for always following the law. According to the book, this sets Mike in the traditionally Irish side of the Irish/English dichotomy. Now, this does not mean that the Irish do not respect the law in principal. What it means is that the Irish do not respect the law under the English, due to centuries of English repression and hatred. The laws have worked against the Irish, and the Irish could not use the laws to protect themselves, so they work against the laws. Subverting the law, perverting it, and undermining it was celebrated. Yet, there was still the feeling that they would never really catch a break, no matter how hard they tried.

 

Boston was a pretty hardcore Puritan town when the Irish first showed up. They could tolerate the Protestant Irish, and were okay with a small number of Irish Catholics. Then more Irish Catholics came and the Bostonians started going crazy. They thought the worst of these Irish, bringing up pretty much every stereotype of the Irish that you know. They were rowdy, drunk, clannish, stupid, unsophisticated, lazy, disloyal, backwards, dirty, etc.

 

Unfortunately for the hostile Bostonians, they could not completely prevent the Irish from entering politics. There were some Irishmen and Americans of Irish descent whom the Bostonians felt were manageable, and they sometimes tried to pit these Irish against those whom they considered to be problems. One major issue was a differing idea about corruption.

 

The English hated corruption in any form and prided themselves as pure. The Irish, however, were perfectly fine about using political power to help those in need, at least family members and those who helped them get elected. There were several elections in the Irish parts of Boston that were utterly farcical, even more ridiculous than the stunts that Jimmy/Saul has pulled.

 

The WASPs may have been horrified at what they considered to be a perversion of the democratic process. The Irish, however, saw this as just an extension of the Irish tradition of thumbing their noses at the English. The way that the English upheld the laws were hypocritical, and would keep the Irish poor and powerless. Being cold-heartedly by the book would be suicidal. Sympathetic corruption was the only way for the Irish to survive. Holding onto the family was paramount, keeping the community together was non-negotiable, and exploiting whatever opening one can find for the common good was a given.

 

Of course, not all Irish felt this way. There were, as I said, the manageable Irish politicians, who tried to stick up for their people using legitimate means. Or they abandoned them altogether. As the Irish gained in number and clout, certain parts of the community started to let down their cultural guard and try to embrace the mainstream. This was easier for those who made money and were able to move out of their poor neighborhoods. Now, this could have been taken as a sign that their people have made it. But when things started going bad for the traditional Irish neighborhoods, many of those who left got branded as traitors. They had abandoned the communities that gave them life in order to suck up to the hypocrites in control; the same hypocrites who had so callously and thoughtlessly employed social experiments to further break up the Irish communities under the guise of justice and legality. Some of these absentee Irish were even at the forefront of these projects, which only further infuriated the poor communities.

 

It is in this context that I saw the dynamic between Jimmy and Chuck last episode. Some either or elsewhere claimed that the McGill brothers most likely were from a working class community. Jimmy was the traditional one, the jokester and trickster who hides deep pain. Jimmy is a scrappy survivor, and any advantage he gets is earned, regardless of how it is earned. His fight is a righteous fight against a mighty foe and, thus, any tactic is fair. He pulls out all the stops. He sees himself as the underdog that is striking out against the Man (Hamlin), whom he sees as having betrayed him and his brother. Jimmy values family and friends. He looks out for them and does whatever he can for them. He idolizes his brother and admires his success; getting into law was one way to try to stay close to him. Jimmy’s toiling in the legal muck was means to an end, yet he can never catch a break. And it turns out that the family member whom he had so adored had sold him out a long time ago. While Jimmy was truly upset at what had turned out to be Chuck’s horrible extended betrayal, he still was willing to make sure that he had provisions for a little while longer. Because that is what a good man is supposed to do, even for someone who does not deserve it.

 

Chuck is the one who wants to keep Jimmy down for his own good; he is embarrassed at what he sees as Jimmy’s frequent corner-cutting and wild stunts. Chuck is the hard worker who got to the top despite all obstacles by being a stickler for the law. He did it the way that it was meant to be done, the way that they said it should be done. He cannot jeopardize that for some trouble-making criminal clown of a relative, who may very well have been one of those obstacles and is a reminder of how shaky his own legitimacy may be. To Chuck, Jimmy is a family shame, and letting him work in the mail room at HHM was the most that he could do without compromising himself. Jimmy looking after him over the past eighteen months was nice and all, but it changed nothing. Taking that Sandpiper case away from Jimmy was the best thing for everyone. But he lied to Jimmy. He lied to Jimmy for years and hid behind an easy boogeyman. Perhaps, he should have been honest about his contempt for Jimmy’s attempts at becoming a lawyer from the beginning, but perhaps he decided that a long-term lie would make it easier for him to keep Jimmy in check. It is difficult and cruel. In the long run, though, it was the right thing to do.

 

I don’t know if he was the first one to say this, but Bono said this: “In the United States, you look at the guy that lives in the mansion on the hill, and you think, you know, one day, if I work really hard, I could live in that mansion. In Ireland, people look up at the guy in the mansion on the hill and go, one day, I'm going to get that bastard.” Jimmy is going to get that bastard.

[ShadowFacts]

 

I don’t know if he was the first one to say this, but Bono said this: “In the United States, you look at the guy that lives in the mansion on the hill, and you think, you know, one day, if I work really hard, I could live in that mansion. In Ireland, people look up at the guy in the mansion on the hill and go, one day, I'm going to get that bastard.” Jimmy is going to get that bastard.

 

Jimmy thought that bastard was Hamlin.  That bastard, The Man keeping him down, was Chuck.  And it wasn't for Jimmy's own good, it was for himself. 

 

Very interesting analysis, Ankai.

[editorgrrl]

Damn you chuck, this is how you repay all the years of taking care of you that jimmy did, while living not in a room of your house but in his office? You didn't even offer him room and board?

Assuming facts not in evidence. When Jimmy asked if he could work on the shredded Sandpiper documents at Chuck's house, Chuck said he'd be glad of the company—and I believed him.

Chuck's been housebound for a year and a half with no TV, radio, or internet to keep him company. I assume he's offered an open invitation for Jimmy to move in, but Jimmy needs his space. He sleeps in Chuck's living room often, but Jimmy needs a respite from the cray-cray. That cramped office in the back of the nail salon may be crappy, but it's better than chez Chuck.

[lucindabelle]

You make a good point that Chuck may have offered. Howevert he one time jimmy did stumble in and slept there Chuck did not seem very welcoming at all... No you know my doors always open kind of thing.

Edited April 2, 2015 by lucindabelle

[wrestlesflamingos]

Chuck's house is enormous. I think it's used as a mirror for Chuck. Aging, in poor repair, but you can see the lines are good. Jimmy doesn't seem conflicted about his sleeping arrangements. His first search is for an office, not an apartment.

[lucindabelle]

True that he cares about an office more... also a good point. I thought his "cucumber water" line to Kim on that visit was quite sweet.

[Ankai]

Well, I doubt that Jimmy plans on showing his apartment to clients on a regular basis, so getting a nice place now does not help him business-wise. He would probably get a new car if he ran out of excuses for why he is driving it. 

Jimmy thought that bastard was Hamlin.  That bastard, The Man keeping him down, was Chuck.  And it wasn't for Jimmy's own good, it was for himself. 

 

Very interesting analysis, Ankai.

Thanks. And, sure, Chuck was probably thinking of himself, but he probably tried to convince himself that he was doing it for Jimmy's sake. He also probably convinced himself that he locked Jimmy out of the Sandpiper case for sake of the clients. A man who considers himself righteous can always rationalize a heinous act. I am sure that the English told themselves that they were doing the Irish a favor by constantly holding them down and taking everything away from them.

 

Jimmy is the kind of person who is only human. He tries his best and, even if his best is not good enough, he gives it his all to get it done. Chuck did not rise to the top of a law firm by being only human. He also did not get there by constantly being coddled by an older brother. He got no breaks, he took no shortcuts, and he put the work in. To him, going dumpster-diving is not paying one's due. He takes great pride not only in his status, but his journey there. Jimmy is a reminder of his starting point, using cheap tricks and smarmy charm to get his way instead of going through the proper channels. On the one hand, Chuck may feel like, since he was able to do it properly, everyone else should be held to the same standards, particularly a brother. On the other hand, he has no faith in Jimmy's abilities or willingness to respect those standards.

 

Jimmy is what Chuck had tried to escape and would avoid altogether if he could. Jimmy had probably said many times that he would change his ways and then eventually fell back into old habits. Chuck cannot trust Jimmy even when Jimmy is being sincere, as Jimmy will eventually start undermining that sincerity with lies and tricks. Jimmy is a threat to the identity that he has created for himself. If Chuck cannot simply make him go away, the only other option is to keep him under some control. Getting him out of jail was an obligation, letting him work at HHM was probably a necessary evil for him, but helping him out on a path to where they could be even be considered in the same league was too much.

 

Perhaps, in some terribly twisted way, Chuck figured that making Hamlin out to be the bad guy was a way to keep Jimmy out without absolutely destroying his ego. While it prevents Chuck from being seen as the bad guy, it also keeps him feeling like he is still loved and respected by the one whose opinion he values the most.

[lucindabelle]

 

A man who considers himself righteous can always rationalize a heinous act. I am sure that the English told themselves that they were doing the Irish a favor by constantly holding them down and taking everything away from them.

 

This. People always appeal to a higher power-- religion, the government (see "The Americans"), the Law, for the bad things they want to justify. It doesn't make that religion or that government or that law bad (though of course they may be).

 

Heck, Nazis thought they were Doing Good (at least, some of them thought of ethnic cleansing as doing good).

But lawyers *really* should know better. If anybody knows that moral relevance isn't real, it should be lawyers.  Chuck sucks.

[WicketyWack]

Being the youngest of 8 kids I have always been fascinated by theories of how birth order shapes one's personality, because my family is an absolute textbook case where all of us siblings behave exactly how we're supposed to, based on our birth order. So in Chuck's rant I saw so much of the whole "older sibling" resentment ... that venom against the younger, cuter younger sibling who came along after Mom and Dad are older, and tired, and done with parenting, and subsequently gets away with eeeeryyything and is so spoiled and lazy. Chuck's speech was absolutely infused with that "older sibling" resentment -- it's real. (What "older siblings" fail to remember is that they got the benefit of Mom & Dad being young and fun and enthusiastic about parenting and involved in their schoolwork and their activities. As a child, being left to one's own devices can, and does, get old.) Plus legitimate resentment about Mom begging them to help the younger sibling, when little bro or sis screws up. Word for word, "I worked my ass off to get where I am ... and you took shortcuts and got away with everything ..." wow, one of the BCS writers definitely nailed that dynamic. 

 

In my mind, and what would absolutely explain Chuck, is that he's what's known as a "Betrayed Only," that is, an only child until he's well into his preteens or teens ... then suddenly comes a surprise sibling. He's been comfortable as an only child his whole life and now he's suddenly expected to share his home and his parents' attention with an annoying little brat who is somehow equal to him in Mom and Dad's eyes. There's a reason that this phenomenon has the word "betrayed" as a descriptor. There is always a feeling that this younger sibling took away what was rightfully theirs.

[lucindabelle]

GREAT observation. Got into a debate just tonight with my older brother, a lawyer, who completely denied the existence of any sibling issues there, he he. I am the youngest.

Now he has no resnt,wnt has always been the protector and hero and all but I thought it was telling he couldn't even see it.

He finds chucks telling jimmy you're not a real lawyer ridiculous, saying do you know how many lawyers with fancy degrees are doing nothing but carrying another lawyers documents into the courtroom? And agreed that if tables were turned chuck wouldn't help jimmy and we have seen jimmy be a good guy,

He, like me, did not watch BBB.

[editorgrrl]

Chuck's speech was absolutely infused with that "older sibling" resentment. Word for word, "I worked my ass off to get where I am ... and you took shortcuts and got away with everything ..." wow, one of the BCS writers definitely nailed that dynamic.

In my mind, and what would absolutely explain Chuck, is that he's what's known as a "Betrayed Only," that is, an only child until he's well into his preteens or teens ... then suddenly comes a surprise sibling. He's been comfortable as an only child his whole life and now he's suddenly expected to share his home and his parents' attention with an annoying little brat who is somehow equal to him in Mom and Dad's eyes. There's a reason that this phenomenon has the word "betrayed" as a descriptor. There is always a feeling that this younger sibling took away what was rightfully theirs.

Bingo! You've totally nailed the sibling rivalry in play here. There's a 15-year age gap between the actors, but it's never been established how old Chuck was when Jimmy was born.

Chuck: You take these shortcuts and you think suddenly you're my peer? You do what I do because you're funny and you can make people laugh? I committed my life to this! You don't slide into it like a cheap pair of slippers and reap all the rewards.

Edited April 4, 2015 by editorgrrl

[WicketyWack]

" ... you take these shortcuts and suddenly you're my peer?"

 

I think if Jimmy had not mentioned the "office next to yours," Chuck might not have made that late-night phone call.

It was the thought of Jimmy being literally on his level — his peer — that was so galling.

Maybe if Jimmy had joked that they're going to make him work from Kim's old crappy basement office, Chuck might have been OK with it.

[ToastnBacon]

I hope they show us what brought on Chuck's delusion about electricity.

[editorgrrl]

Interview with Michael McKean, post-finale:

http://www.salon.com/2015/04/06/michael_mckean_better_call_saul_is_about_the_american_escape_hatch_instead_of_the_american_dream/

I love his theory on the sibling rivalry between the McGill boys:

He’s the one who made mom laugh, that’s what we’re thinking now. That’s the worse crime of all. I made my mother very proud, but Jimmy made her laugh. That kills me. There’s a billion reasons, that’s just one of them. I think that’s just one that’s playable. It’s in the speech, it’s in that episode. We make one passing mention of mom, but I think that’s what that is. It’s like, “Mom, he’s the fuck up. Why does he make you happy?” I make you proud, but he makes you happy in some way. He’s the baby, he’s this brat.

[lucindabelle]

That's my theory too, editorgrrl. And Chuck's the older brother who should be protecting Jimmy and proud of him, and he's too small minded and petty to do it.

[ShadowFacts]

That's a great interview.  What struck me were his thoughts on Jimmy and the money, made me think of what he said to Mike in the parking lot:

 

 

Everything that happens to you in your life can sometimes find the way to make all the difference down the line. But when you’ve got a confluence of stuff here, Jimmy getting involved in these bigger cases, these bigger money cases, getting a whiff of the money anyway — if you’re going to be cheated of the attention and prestige you feel you should have, if you feel cheated of that, you’ll find a way to settle for the money. That’s the American way. If everything else goes off in your face, if your family can’t stand the sight of you, if you can’t hold a job, if you can’t stay away from drugs and booze, well, at least you can make a lot of money and have all this f-you money stacked up. It really is the American escape hatch instead of the American dream.

Money as the American escape hatch. 

[lucindabelle]

But the problem with the interview is we just saw Jimmy being offered everything he wanted, with the prestige etc. and the money too. His starting salary was surely going to be six figures. He's not going to make more money as a strip mall lawyer than a partner track associate in a big firm.

[ShadowFacts]

Michael McKean said having a lot of f-you money stacked up is a way to deal with family disrespect, so there's money from a Santa Fe law firm, and then there's money from being a strip mall, garish t.v. commercial defender of drug dealers.  The latter has a bigger f-you factor to Chuck, I think.  Taking that Santa Fe job that Kim worked to set up for him would have been smart and respectable, but that's not going to have the punch in the gut to Chuck that may be a partial motivator for Jimmy.

[lucindabelle]

But we haven't seen Jimmy wish to hurt Chuck. Quite the opposite. He brought a list of to-dos to Howard. Sat outside in his car-- if Ernie hadn't been in there, I think he'd have gone in himself.

 

So that motivation doesn't work for me-- at best, it's off-camera.

[PrincessSteel]

When my kids were wee, they rehearsed a magic show that they then performed for their Dad and me. My ex videotaped the performance...when the (stuffed) rabbit is pulled from the hat, you can hear him, off camera, bellow "That's not a REAL rabbit!" And their little faces fall.

Now that the kids are grown, That's Not A REAL [whatever] has become a family catch phrase for advanced douchbaggery. So when Chuck muttered "You're not a REAL lawyer", my feelings towards the character experienced a violent whiplash from mild sympathy to blinding hate.

Also, who needs groceries delivered every single day? Even when my three kids were perpetually ravenous teens, I shopped for food maybe three times a week, at most. How much does Chuck eat? Even allowing for the inadequate method of using ice to keep food fresh, having someone bring him food every single day smacks of a staggering level of entitlement.

[lucindabelle]

I'm glad he's your ex. Someone who makes little children feel bad, and one ups them, is bad.

[Umbelina]

But the problem with the interview is we just saw Jimmy being offered everything he wanted, with the prestige etc. and the money too. His starting salary was surely going to be six figures. He's not going to make more money as a strip mall lawyer than a partner track associate in a big firm.

That's not what Jimmy wanted.  It's what he was doing to please Chuck.  I think he's trying to figure out what Jimmy wants, away from Marco and Chuck's perceptions of him.

 

When my kids were wee, they rehearsed a magic show that they then performed for their Dad and me. My ex videotaped the performance...when the (stuffed) rabbit is pulled from the hat, you can hear him, off camera, bellow "That's not a REAL rabbit!" And their little faces fall.

Now that the kids are grown, That's Not A REAL [whatever] has become a family catch phrase for advanced douchbaggery. So when Chuck muttered "You're not a REAL lawyer", my feelings towards the character experienced a violent whiplash from mild sympathy to blinding hate.

Also, who needs groceries delivered every single day? Even when my three kids were perpetually ravenous teens, I shopped for food maybe three times a week, at most. How much does Chuck eat? Even allowing for the inadequate method of using ice to keep food fresh, having someone bring him food every single day smacks of a staggering level of entitlement.

Great story!

 

Also, Chuck has no refrigeration.  At best the ice will last two days, AND he wants his newspapers every single morning too. 

[lucindabelle]

Why doesnt he just get the papers delivered?

 

Oh right, he would have to go and get them. Sigh.

[editorgrrl]

Why doesnt he just get the papers delivered?

 

Oh right, he would have to go and get them. Sigh.

 

Chuck gets the local daily delivered, but someone has to fetch the others.

 

Methinks the old tinfoil bastard would bristle at PrincessSteel's allegation of entitlement. It's not like he expects anyone to go out of pocket! And he left his neighbor a fiver under a rock.

 

Edited to add that Chuck's interaction with Ernesto vs. Jimmy's chat with Ernie underscores the vast difference between the brothers McGill. Chuck's an entitled, condescending jerk, whilst Jimmy's a nice guy. Like The Walking Dead's Carol, he's a people person.

Edited April 7, 2015 by editorgrrl

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Chuck gets the local daily delivered, but someone has to fetch the others.

Jimmy told Hamlin that the paper that was being delivered still had to be brought inside by somebody.

 

 

Also, Chuck has no refrigeration.  At best the ice will last two days,

He should get an old-fashioned ice box. Properly insulated, ice will last a long time; originally, the ice that icemen delivered to homes was harvested from ponds during the winter.

[lucindabelle]

Right, you can get the Times and WSJ delivered but they have to be brought in anyway. Apparently the other one isn't on newsstands, which is why it's delivered.

 

And yeah, Chuck needing a delivery *every* day is a bit much.

[editorgrrl]

There's way more on the list than just the three papers Jimmy mentions to Howard in "Marco" and a 20-lb. bag of ice. In "Uno," Jimmy brought Chuck the Financial Times and told him to stop putting bacon on the list. In "Pimento," Jimmy brought bacon, eggs, and a couple of those steaks Chuck likes.

 

Jimmy: I've got something for you, too. Uh, it's a shopping list for Chuck. I mean, he's doing better, but he still needs deliveries every day. I think he'd be more comfortable with someone else doing it.

Howard: I see.
Jimmy: You don't have to do it personally—it just needs to get done. It's pretty straightforward. The ice is a pain in the ass, but he needs it. I usually sneak into a motel and fill a garbage bag, but you can have whoever you hire just buy it. The most important thing is the newspapers. Uh, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal—they're a must. There's a newsstand on Eubank that has both of them at 6 a.m., which is good 'cause he's an early riser. The Albuquerque Journal he gets delivered, but somebody still has to bring it in for him.
Howard: You've been doing all of this every day—for over a year?

 

Edited to add that Jimmy never says he no longer wants to be Chuck's personal assistant. He tells Howard, "I think he'd be more comfortable with someone else doing it." One could argue that he's just putting on a brave face, but when Kim tells Jimmy that Davis & Main want to offer him a partner-track position, he says, "Chuck wouldn't like it." (I flove that Kim immediately fires back, "Chuck has no say in this. You wouldn't be working for HHM, and Chuck can't tell Davis and Main who to hire.")

 

I think Jimmy still loves Chuck. Why else check up on the tinfoil bastard the minute he returns to Albuquerque?

Edited April 9, 2015 by editorgrrl

[ShadowFacts]

I note that Jimmy apparently gets up that early to get those papers to early riser Chuck. Maybe he has to cool his jets a little now.

[PeterPirate]

I don't hate Chuck. Short of him murdering Kim, I don't think I will ever hate Chuck.

Why? Because Jimmy is a criminal. Not a criminal lawyer or a criminal lawyer. He's a criminal. He's Slippin' Jimmy. And I don't mean the one who scams greedy suckers. I mean the one who defrauded perfectly innocent people with his phony slips and falls.  Chuck is the one who has had to live with and clean up after the repercussions to his family, and it's breaking him.

This doesn't mean that I approve of the things Chuck has done to undermine his brother. Imo Chuck should have straight-up told Newly-Admitted-to-the-Bar Jimmy that there was no place for him at HHM, but that he would assist him in any way that he could without threatening the firm. He also should have been straight with Jimmy about not allowing him to work at HHM on the Sandpiper case, and not taken any part in the Mesa Verde sweepstakes. 

To me Chuck is something akin to Hank Shrader, or maybe Inspector Javert. Someone who will chase after the Bad Guy to their own doom. The difference being that Chuck has chosen to use underhanded tactics. Hank may have lost his life, but he kept his integrity and the love of his wife to the end. Once you start down the path to the dark side, forever will it control your destiny.

Edited April 28, 2017 by PeterPirate

[Captanne]

My problem with Chuck is that his motives are unreliable.  If we drink the Koolaid that he is long-suffering and is only being cruel to protect HHM and the Entire Legal Profession, we have to remember that he is living inside a TV Dinner Tray, his "illness" is psychosomatic (we were shown that unequivocally by the doctor in the hospital), and he is demanding that the rest of the world cater to the pretty outrageous demands of his living conditions.

Also, McKeon's performance tells me he's enjoying himself.  There is some layer of Chuck that is revelling in destroying his brother.  

I can't trust his sincerity.  

I find him very problematic.

[JudyObscure]

My vision of Chuck is somewhere in between a man whose only concern is to defend the law and a man whose only purpose in life is to destroy his brother -- although I can see both of those versions. There have to have been parts we haven't seen much of that don't touch on either thing.  I wish we had seen more of Chuck with Rebecca before it all started to crumble.  At some point Chuck must have been a superb lawyer by day and a gourmet cook/ classical music fan by night with a comfortable home and a wife who loved him.  One thing I don't hold against him is his illness. Whether it's psychosomatic or not it's still incapacitating and I don't think he's purposely faking it.

[ShadowFacts]

12 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

My vision of Chuck is somewhere in between a man whose only concern is to defend the law and a man whose only purpose in life is to destroy his brother -- although I can see both of those versions. There have to have been parts we haven't seen much of that don't touch on either thing.  I wish we had seen more of Chuck with Rebecca before it all started to crumble.  At some point Chuck must have been a superb lawyer by day and a gourmet cook/ classical music fan by night with a comfortable home and a wife who loved him.  One thing I don't hold against him is his illness. Whether it's psychosomatic or not it's still incapacitating and I don't think he's purposely faking it.

I agree he's not faking his illness.  He could be treated and live a more normal life, he has shown that, but he's in denial as many people with many illnesses are.  Though I currently really loathe his behavior, we have seen flashes of his brotherly impulses, which he has chosen to repress in favor of his need to control Jimmy, and that is what is sad to me.  It didn't have to be this way. 

[JudyObscure]

On ‎4‎/‎8‎/‎2015 at 6:30 PM, ShadowFacts said:

I note that Jimmy apparently gets up that early to get those papers to early riser Chuck. Maybe he has to cool his jets a little now.

"Nobody ever accused Jimmy of being lazy,"  one of my favorite Chuck quotes, because I notice how true it is  all the time.  If I had to live one day in the life of Jimmy (or Kim, or Mike) I would die of exhaustion.

[ghoulina]

I don't think Chuck is faking his illness, but I do think there has been a time (or two) when he purposefully played it up a bit to manipulate Jimmy. I wish my memory wasn't so crappy, or I'd offer up the exact scene I'm thinking of!

[Captanne]

We were shown, point blank, that his illness is psychosomatic.  (After he'd been admitted from the ER -- Jimmy, Kim, and the doctor were in the room.)   

 

"Fake" implies intent.  We don't know what his motives are (he probably doesn't have any -- it's probably entirely an innocent mental illness.)

But it is not accurate based on the show's own evidence that Chuck has any real physical ailment.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Captanne

[PeterPirate]

From 305, Chicanery:  

On 5/15/2017 at 12:31 AM, Jextella said:

I do see both men as victims to a large degree.  They were dealt pretty shitty hands all along.   My support for Jimmy and Chuck sways back and forth depending on the latest bit of outrageous behavior from both sides, but ultimately (at this juncture), I feel more sympathy for Chuck than I do for Jimmy.  Although I agree that Jimmy is far more likeable.

This sums up Chuck and Jimmy to me.  Having parents who can't see evil is almost as bad as having parents who inflict evil.  They just ended up dealing with their situation in opposite ways.  

From what I can glean from the show, Chuck's illness began to manifest itself after Jimmy passed the bar.  That I think was just a trigger for Chuck to deal with the hurt and anger he felt over his parents.  It's a shame that he couldn't property locate the source of his feelings, even though he had some awareness of who his parents were, and even though he had an accurate assessment of who his younger brother was.

I've heard that Richard Nixon's two daughters did not get along for many years after their father was forced to leave the presidency.  Essentially, one was Honest and the other was Loyal.  Those are both admirable qualities, but taken to extremes they can lead to problems.  

[Umbelina]

Chuck's illness came on after his wife left him.  Jimmy was already caring for Chuck before Chuck knew he was studying law, let alone that he'd passed the bar.

I'm still team Jimmy.  His older brother sabotaged him since he was born.  If Chuck hadn't resented the new baby so much, he could have been a wonderful influence on his much younger brother.  He could have supported, and praised him, he could have been the kind of older brother that actually listened to Jimmy when he tried to tell Chuck why their father was going broke.  Hell, he could have HELPED his father, if he wasn't so hell bent on being the "good" son, and vilifying Jimmy.

Chuck was a monster, intellectually brilliant, but emotionally childish, his hate and jealousy blinded him.  He stole Jimmy's first huge breakthrough case, deliberately, once again, hurting him.  He blackballed him at the firm.  He used Jimmy's innate kindness and care for him ruthlessly and was not at all appreciative of that.  He took it as his due, not as any kind of evidence that just maybe, his hated younger brother had good qualities.  Hell, he even lied to Jimmy about their mother's last words!

Do I have some sympathy for Chuck after season 3?  Of course.

I still think he was a completely horrible person, he ruined Jimmy, thwarted every hopeful or good thing Jimmy did, set out to look for only the bad, and as his older, admired, loved big brother?  He influenced Jimmy's idea of himself.  Chuck thought him worthless and evil, and Jimmy began to think of himself the same way.  Chicken or Egg?  I think, given their ages?  MUCH more Chuck's fault what became of Jimmy, than just Jimmy being "bad."  What you nurture grows, Chuck wanted Jimmy worthless, stupid, and bad. 

I did like the actor though, and was entertained listening on the commentaries to how thrilled he was that many on the internet started to like Chuck and hate Jimmy this season.

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I still think he was a completely horrible person, he ruined Jimmy, thwarted every hopeful or good thing Jimmy did, set out to look for only the bad, and as his older, admired, loved big brother?  He influenced Jimmy's idea of himself.  Chuck thought him worthless and evil, and Jimmy began to think of himself the same way.  Chicken or Egg?  I think, given their ages?  MUCH more Chuck's fault what became of Jimmy, than just Jimmy being "bad."  What you nurture grows, Chuck wanted Jimmy worthless, stupid, and bad. 

I agree with a lot of this.  But in a way Jimmy had the last word.  And that will cause plenty of guilt I think.  Pulling off the switcheroo with the documents, and the subsequent public humiliation at the bar ethics hearing, destroyed Chuck.  Jimmy took it too far, with disastrous consequences. 

[Umbelina]

33 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I agree with a lot of this.  But in a way Jimmy had the last word.  And that will cause plenty of guilt I think.  Pulling off the switcheroo with the documents, and the subsequent public humiliation at the bar ethics hearing, destroyed Chuck.  Jimmy took it too far, with disastrous consequences. 

I don't think Jimmy took it too far.  Strangling the son of a bitch would be "taking it too far."  Poisoning him would be taking it too far.  Banging his ex and making sure Chuck would walk in on them?  Maybe taking it too far. 

What he did was, using Chuck's own preferred style of destruction of Jimmy, hang him by his own methods.  I'm sure Jimmy will feel guilt but at least he will no longer have someone he cares about sabotaging his every move.  Chuck tried ruining Jimmy's life, only interested in his brother when it could reinforce his pathetic need to be "the best son."  In current time he's tried everything possible to ruin Jimmy's law career.  Jimmy just did that same thing back to him, only he did it better. 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Umbelina

[Ailianna]

Ad if Chuck could have brought himself to look at the documents in front of him, and allow himself to be corrected, which happens to every lawyer, he wouldn't have been so devastated.  His pride was the last ingredient in his downfall.

[Umbelina]

11 minutes ago, Ailianna said:

Ad if Chuck could have brought himself to look at the documents in front of him, and allow himself to be corrected, which happens to every lawyer, he wouldn't have been so devastated.  His pride was the last ingredient in his downfall.

Especially since Jimmy was the one beating him.  He might be able to adjust to losing to anyone else, but Jimmy, beating him at his own game?  Beating him in court?  Broke him. 

Until the end, Chuck HAD to be better than Jimmy.

Note to all moms expecting a baby?  Make sure the oldest child still feels special.  Because, you know, it's always the mother's fault.  ;)

Edited March 31, 2018 by Umbelina

[PeterPirate]

18 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Chuck's illness came on after his wife left him.  Jimmy was already caring for Chuck before Chuck knew he was studying law, let alone that he'd passed the bar.

Chuck was working at HHM, and was using some sort of recording device, when Jimmy informed him that he'd passed the bar.  I presume this means that his illness had not yet manifested itself.  

[Umbelina]

3 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

Chuck was working at HHM, and was using some sort of recording device, when Jimmy informed him that he'd passed the bar.  I presume this means that his illness had not yet manifested itself.  

http://breakingbad.wikia.com/wiki/Chuck_McGill

Quote

 

Around this time, Chuck was married to Rebecca Bois, a famous violinist whom he seemed to have a decent marriage with ("Rebecca"). However, at some point in 2001, Chuck and Rebecca separated and it was shortly after this separation that Chuck began developing his electromagnetic hypersensitivity condition. To accommodate this, he had all his electronics removed from his home.

(snip)

Chuck's condition caused him to have to take an extended leave from HHM in early 2001. He started living in an electricity-free home, relying on gas lamps for light. Before entering his house, visitors have to place all of their electronics in the mailbox and "ground themselves" (remove the static charge from their body). Chuck is sometimes seen wearing what Jimmy calls a "space blanket," to shield himself against static electricity ("Uno").

Season 1

Chuck and Jimmy discussing the buyout ("Uno").

After being house-ridden for a year and a half,

 

Maybe you are right, but in court in season 3, Chuck admitted under oath that his problems began when his wife left him, which was before Jimmy passed the bar, right?  So much was done in flashbacks, it gets a bit confusing.  He probably did have another "relapse" when Jimmy passed the bar exam, but I don't think that was his first time to have his made up disease.