Small Talk: About Big People

[winsomeone]

PCOS or not, I don't think many 400 pound people have gotten that big without eating a lot of food. I keep picturing Whitney eating that huge container of ice cream in her SUV...how many normal people would eat that much at one time? She is wearing what she eats period.

[ClareWalks]

Yeah, once you get to nearly 400 lb, PCOS or not, you have to eat a lot of calories to even maintain your weight. There is no way she would have to eat calories "at starvation levels" to lose weight, even with PCOS. She could probably cut back to 2000 and exercise an hour a day, and the pounds would fall off, at least until she lost about 100 lb. Then she might need to cut a bit more food.

[RCharter]

Yeah, once you get to nearly 400 lb, PCOS or not, you have to eat a lot of calories to even maintain your weight. There is no way she would have to eat calories "at starvation levels" to lose weight, even with PCOS. She could probably cut back to 2000 and exercise an hour a day, and the pounds would fall off, at least until she lost about 100 lb. Then she might need to cut a bit more food.

exactly!  she may not even need to go that low at this point.  Did her dietician give her a calorie goal?

[Tosia]

Yeah, her relief at not being technically diabetic smacks to me of relief due to her not following a healthy diet or enough exercise. I see it (and experience it) every week at Weight Watchers when I weigh in and lose, despite not exactly eating healthy foods or portions that past week. The numbers catch up eventually.

[Snarklepuss]

Yeah, once you get to nearly 400 lb, PCOS or not, you have to eat a lot of calories to even maintain your weight. There is no way she would have to eat calories "at starvation levels" to lose weight, even with PCOS. She could probably cut back to 2000 and exercise an hour a day, and the pounds would fall off, at least until she lost about 100 lb. Then she might need to cut a bit more food.

 

Not necessarily.  If someone has a condition that makes it easy to gain weight and very difficult to lose it, it means that cutting back to levels that would make a normal person lose weight aren't going to do the trick.  It means they have to cut back even more or nothing's going to happen.  That's the nature of the beast.  I'm like that myself.  I go on 1200 calorie a day diets with exercise and maintain my weight, and I'm over 200 lbs.  It's probably because my body goes into "starvation mode" where it holds onto every pound due to what it thinks is too little food intake.  But if I increase my calories even a little bit I won't lose either.  Even when I was young I never could lose more than a pound a week if that no matter how hard I tried.  It's counter-intuitive, but that's the way it works when your body is out of whack.  It also means that the number of excess calories needed to maintain or gain weight are lower than for the average person.  So that means it would take far less than 3500 calories for some people to maintain Whitney's weight than a normal person of that same weight.  Put the two abnormal tendencies together (easy to gain hard to lose) and it's very difficult to maintain a healthy weight.  Plus, some studies actually suggest that the heavier one is, the harder it is to lose weight, contrary to popular belief:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3331892/Why-bigger-harder-lose-weight-Stored-fat-fights-against-body-s-attempts-shed-pounds.html

Edited December 1, 2015 by Snarklepuss

[RCharter]

Not necessarily.  If someone has a condition that makes it easy to gain weight and very difficult to lose it, it means that cutting back to levels that would make a normal person lose weight aren't going to do the trick.  It means they have to cut back even more or nothing's going to happen.  That's the nature of the beast.  I'm like that myself.  I go on 1200 calorie a day diets with exercise and maintain my weight, and I'm over 200 lbs.  Even when I was young I never could lose more than a pound a week if that no matter how hard I tried.  It's counter-intuitive, but that's the way it works.  It also means that the number of excess calories needed to gain weight are lower than for the average person.  Put the two tendencies together and it's very difficult to maintain a healthy weight.  Plus, some studies actually suggest that the heavier one is, the harder it is to lose weight, contrary to popular belief:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3331892/Why-bigger-harder-lose-weight-Stored-fat-fights-against-body-s-attempts-shed-pounds.html

If she is maintaining 400 pounds on a certain number of calories, she should be able to cut those calories and lose weight.  I suspect she is eating far more than 2000 calories a day to maintain a 400 pound frame.  I wonder how many people on "The Biggest Loser" had PCOS, insulin resistance, etc, etc.  They were all able to lose weight by calorie cutting and working out.  I get that the Biggest Loser is the extreme, but it does show that those traditional methods that people with PCOS say won't work....can work.   The traditional mechanics still work, so yes, Whitney should be able to cut calories, workout more and lose weight.  Jillian Michaels apparently has PCOS too.  

 

I would also point out that this research seems to be based in a study done on mice and then the results extrapolated to humans.  There have been plenty people that have lost weight....stored or free roaming.  No one said weight loss was easy and I it sounds like 99% of any fat a human has falls into the category of "bad fat."  So people with the "bad fat" are losing weight.

Edited December 1, 2015 by RCharter

[ClareWalks]

Not necessarily.  If someone has a condition that makes it easy to gain weight and very difficult to lose it, it means that cutting back to levels that would make a normal person lose weight aren't going to do the trick.  It means they have to cut back even more or nothing's going to happen.  That's the nature of the beast.  I'm like that myself.  I go on 1200 calorie a day diets with exercise and maintain my weight, and I'm over 200 lbs.  It's probably because my body goes into "starvation mode" where it holds onto every pound due to what it thinks is too little food intake.  But if I increase my calories even a little bit I won't lose either.  Even when I was young I never could lose more than a pound a week if that no matter how hard I tried.  It's counter-intuitive, but that's the way it works when your body is out of whack.  It also means that the number of excess calories needed to maintain or gain weight are lower than for the average person.  So that means it would take far less than 3500 calories for some people to maintain Whitney's weight than a normal person of that same weight.  Put the two abnormal tendencies together (easy to gain hard to lose) and it's very difficult to maintain a healthy weight.  Plus, some studies actually suggest that the heavier one is, the harder it is to lose weight, contrary to popular belief:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3331892/Why-bigger-harder-lose-weight-Stored-fat-fights-against-body-s-attempts-shed-pounds.html

 

I know where you're coming from, but you are not almost 400 lb. Your metabolism is simply not the same as someone who would be. I'm a personal trainer, I have dealt with clients who are extremely heavy, some with metabolic disorders including PCOS. ALL of my extremely obese clients have had eating disorders. ALL of them. You weighing "over 200 lb" is not comparable, calorically, to someone whose BMI tops 60. Granted, I am not citing medical studies, but in the world of weight loss, studies don't necessarily mean anything, because each body is different. I'm just saying, it's very interesting what all these people have in common.

 

Note: I am not talking about YOU, if you are reporting yourself accurately you are doing everything right and, even if you are "heavier than you want to be," you are probably pretty darn healthy.

[Snarklepuss]

I think Whitney can lose weight, it's just probably harder for her than for other people.  She may be a slow loser plus would need to put more into it than others to achieve the same result.  I watched enough "Biggest Loser" back in the day to remember those people who were killing themselves to lose another pound versus others for whom the weight just fell off.  It used to anger me that the lucky people whose bodies cooperated more got all the praise for their hard work while the others who were arguably working just as hard were blamed for something that they can't control.  I remember once an obese teenage girl who was recruited on the Rachael Ray show several years ago for a biggest loser-style weight loss segment that spanned several weeks.  When the weight wasn't coming off as fast as her trainers liked, they pushed her so hard to exercise that she ended up breaking a leg.  I remember hearing the news that she brought a lawsuit against the show because of it, but there was never any follow up about what happened with that.  Of course everyone blamed her for not trying hard enough, but the question is, how much is enough and what is reasonable to expect someone to do to lose weight?  Whitney is very active, I can't imagine she is chowing down in excess of 4,000 calories a day or she'd have to be a pretty ridiculous liar misrepresenting herself to the world.  I wondered the same about the girl on the RR show.  She had no reason to lie, she was just a kid who wanted to lose weight, plus she was living under some pretty strict rules especially when they checked her into the weight loss camp.  So I have to wonder what the truth is.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Snarklepuss

[Shibori]

Of course everyone blamed her for not trying hard enough, but the question is, how much is enough and what is reasonable to expect someone to do to lose weight?

That's a great point. The Biggest Loser is both a horrible and perfect example of that- let's say for the sake of argument that due to verifiable metabolic issues, a hypothetical person can only maintain a healthy weight with severe caloric restriction and intense exercise like we see on TBL. Is that really a choice? Is it sustainable with family, jobs, etc. for the long run? Should people with 200 or 300 pounds to lose be running marathons and exercising until they vomit? Could we blame someone for deciding not to do that? Many TBL contestants have regained their weight. Some have developed eating disorders or heart problems. And given the negative publicity around the use of direutics, questionable supplements and/or drugs, injuries, lying about timeframes for weight loss ("weeks" that are really 10-14 days), TBL is not necessarily the best example of eat less (but Extra gum and Jennie O turkey!) and move more- if anything it shows the kind of extremes some people have to go to for weight loss, and that even under highly supervised conditions people don't always lose the predictable amount of weight.

[RCharter]

That's a great point. The Biggest Loser is both a horrible and perfect example of that- let's say for the sake of argument that due to verifiable metabolic issues, a hypothetical person can only maintain a healthy weight with severe caloric restriction and intense exercise like we see on TBL. Is that really a choice? Is it sustainable with family, jobs, etc. for the long run? Should people with 200 or 300 pounds to lose be running marathons and exercising until they vomit? Could we blame someone for deciding not to do that? Many TBL contestants have regained their weight. Some have developed eating disorders or heart problems. And given the negative publicity around the use of direutics, questionable supplements and/or drugs, injuries, lying about timeframes for weight loss ("weeks" that are really 10-14 days), TBL is not necessarily the best example of eat less (but Extra gum and Jennie O turkey!) and move more- if anything it shows the kind of extremes some people have to go to for weight loss, and that even under highly supervised conditions people don't always lose the predictable amount of weight.

The extremes only prove the point that dietary restrictions and exercise can work.  Not that such severity is the best way.  But there are people that would argue that PCOS somehow makes weight loss impossible....but it shows that people with these conditions can lose weight with diet and exercise.  And people on TBL lose a lot of weight, very, very fast.  If you can lose weight very, very fast with extreme measures, it stands to reason that by taking more measured steps that are less extreme you should be able to lose some weight.  Because its not impossible, the mechanics work.

[ClareWalks]

Ugh, The Biggest Loser, I used to like that show and then I became a trainer...now half the people I train either expect me to be Jillian, or ASK me to "be Jillian." No, thank you. Although interestingly enough, I think one of the winners (Olivia Ward) might have had PCOS.

[Snarklepuss]

The extremes only prove the point that dietary restrictions and exercise can work.  Not that such severity is the best way.  But there are people that would argue that PCOS somehow makes weight loss impossible....but it shows that people with these conditions can lose weight with diet and exercise.  And people on TBL lose a lot of weight, very, very fast.  If you can lose weight very, very fast with extreme measures, it stands to reason that by taking more measured steps that are less extreme you should be able to lose some weight.  Because its not impossible, the mechanics work.

 

I think at this point the only way I'd be able to lose weight is to quit my full time job and spend hours a day with a personal trainer and nutritionist.  That's how famous people do it.  Doing the "more measured steps" don't work for me as I've posted in the past.  Unfortunately I'm not Madonna - made of money and can spend hours and hundreds a day on keeping trim.  Just saying "it's possible" doesn't factor in real world situations.  I'm sure it's possible that I can run a marathon too, but what would it take to get me in shape to do it?  Is that realistic at my age of 57 and with my work schedule, household responsibilities and physical issues (i.e. arthritis. edema, possible fibromyalgia, gallstones).?  And at what cost to my body if I do embark on such grueling physical training?  I can pull a muscle just getting out of the shower!  I'm not willing to concede that "more measured steps" work for everyone.  They certainly don't for me and I don't doubt for other people with their own limitations and issues, medical and otherwise.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Snarklepuss

[RCharter]

I think at this point the only way I'd be able to lose weight is to quit my full time job and spend hours a day with a personal trainer and nutritionist.  That's how famous people do it.  Doing the "more measured steps" don't work for me as I've posted in the past.  Unfortunately I'm not Madonna - made of money and can spend hours and hundreds a day on keeping trim.  Just saying "it's possible" doesn't factor in real world situations.  I'm sure it's possible that I can run a marathon too, but what would it take to get me in shape to do it?  Is that realistic at my age of 57 and with my work schedule, household responsibilities and physical issues (i.e. arthritis. edema, possible fibromyalgia, gallstones).?  And at what cost to my body if I do embark on such grueling physical training?  I can pull a muscle just getting out of the shower!  I'm not willing to concede that "more measured steps" work for everyone.  They certainly don't for me and I don't doubt for other people with their own limitations and issues, medical and otherwise.

I'm not speaking specifically about you.  However, there are people of various ages, medical issues, sizes that do train for a marathon and do so while holding down a full time job.  I remember working with a guy who worked full time and trained for a marathon in order to lose weight, because it did require him to change a lot about his life.  He came within two miles of actually finishing the marathon.  

 

People of all ages, sizes, and with various medical conditions have taken more measured steps to lose weight.  Because the mechanics generally work.  It's hard, but I think its sort of unfortunate to lump everyone together who have lost weight as having to have quit their jobs, or gone to the extreme.  It seems to discount their hard, daily, and measured work.  Which many of them do while working.  I don't think I said it would work for everyone, but generally the mechanics do work.  Certainly for some people, like you, the mechanics won't work, but they generally do.

[ClareWalks]

In my experience as a trainer, a lot of obese people (not all, but a lot of them) pay "lip service" to trying to lose weight. Like, they'll do a fad diet for a week here and there. That's why I am very wary of people who say "I've tried everything," because that usually means they've tried a bunch of different things (meaning: fad diets), which shows me that they haven't researched the stuff that actually works. 

 

My husband was 320 lb after grad school. He got into working out and triathlons, and eating healthier (because it helped his performance), and got down to 175. He trained for three Ironman triathlons while working 50+ hours a week. It can be done, but it does require a person to really enjoy the activity, and basically have no life outside of that. If I had been more demanding of his time, or if we'd had our baby back then, he would never have been able to balance all that. Basically, my point is it helps if one 1) greatly enjoys exercise, and/or 2) doesn't have a lot else going on. The Biggest Loser is mostly point 2, while most casual marathoners fall under point 1.

[Snarklepuss]

Are any of you closer to 60 than 50?  Because it comes as a shock even to the most active people (and probably especially to them because they're not used to physical limitations).  One of my previous bosses was a hockey player, very athletic - Thought he could continue to play hockey into his 50s and learned the hard way why that wasn't a good idea.  A good friend of mine (a man) who is 4 years younger than me was an avid runner.  I kept telling him he was going to have to scale it back a bit in his 50s or end up regretting it, but he didn't listen to me, of course.  Well, repeatedly he has injured his foot, his leg, his ankle, his knee - and been down for the count with each injury for several months afterward (not to mention the doctor visits).  His most recent injury never seems to heal so he has stopped running for at least a year now.  After a certain age even the healthiest person needs to scale back.  When you injure yourself it takes forever to heal and sometimes never really heals so if you do start pushing yourself again it flares up and makes it impossible for you to continue.  Similar issues hold true for morbidly obese people.  Their bodies can't handle the level of exercise that a normal weight person can.  In that way they are almost like older people and can suffer from some of the same exercise related injuries/afflictions that older people get if they push it too hard.  Whitney seems to be especially flexible, but she is young yet, plus she is used to moving around.  I am not sure why she is able to wear flip flops - I would think she'd get plantar fasciitis in a hot minute wearing them.  Anyway, the restrictions on exercise only make it all the harder to lose weight for older people and the morbidly obese.

 

Also, regarding the older people who can train for a marathon - They are especially lucky and are the exceptions.  The ones that don't do it aren't necessarily lazy or disinterested, nor people who were never athletic before.  See above for some of the reasons why.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Snarklepuss

[RCharter]

All I have to say is if people look for a reason not to do something, they will always find it.

 

My father climbed Mt. Kilimanjaro when he was 62.  He had planned to do it when he was 60, but he got a back injury that kept him from doing it.  As soon as everything cleared up, he did it.   I had assumed that they were sort of bussed halfway up the mountain and just got to walk the last mile or so so they could take the pictures.  But, nope, he did the entire thing, at age 62.....after an injury.  He just turned 70, and he still spends time in the gym swimming and on the machines to keep himself fit.  And this is with a bum knee that he doesn't want to have surgery on. 

 

I think it diminishes his hard work and effort to simply call him "lucky."  He isn't lucky, he put in a lot of hard work, and continues to do so.  There is nothing mythical or majestic about him.

[winsomeone]

Whitney doesn't seem overly concerned about the health risks that 400 pounds brings to her, so maybe she does need to be body shamed, as nothing else seems to work with her? Eventually she will be dancing from the waist up only, as she will be wheelchair bound...her bones and joints will give out carrying all of that weight.

[ClareWalks]

My mom walked a half marathon with me in her late 50s. She had been a lifelong smoker who'd recently quit, and although she was never athletic AT ALL (LOL) she wanted to challenge herself. She finished in 4 hours, and although she now has back issues and can't really train anymore, she did do it, at least the one time. Being older absolutely means there will be more issues (slower recovery, less flexibility,and less muscle mass than Younger You), but I have found that with a competent trainer that most older people can do an exercise routine (maybe an adapted/modified one) with no problems.

[Tosia]

I'm 61. I hiked twice this fall 4 miles, elevation change of 1000 feet, colorado. One hike was thru 4 inches of falling snow. I was the last one (all others were women my age or older..70s, 80s). Beautiful scenery!

That said, I have a duodenal ulcer, recently diagnosed gall stones, right hip problems, restless leg syndrome, and peripheral neuropathy in right calf. I am about 70 lbs overweight. The above health issues make me want to move more to keep mobile into my later years.

I have been a çonsistent (weekly) attendee ar Weight Watchers also. I have gained instead of lost weight this past year. Lost 26 lbs., a year ago. I was active at the gym (3-4 x per week) until August when my membership team out. I will join again after Christmas.

Losing weight takes knowledge of nutrition, significant movement almost daily, and cooking skills.....but most of all, the desire to be healthy in long term v. Impulsive eating of junk food..i.e., overly processed foods with mucho fat, sugar, and salt--except for rare, small treats. Its hard work, but people do it and lose weight. I wont give up. I want to live to see my grandchildren and enjoy my life. Life is more than chocolate. Or so i keep telling myself.

I am a special education teacher and work full-time.

[Snarklepuss]

You are lucky to be able to do all that exercise, Tosia.  Me, I get on my bike and have to pack it in after a half hour of riding.  I've pushed myself to an hour but have to rest for the rest of the day.  Meanwhile I used to be able to ride all day.  I think I have undiagnosed fibromyalgia too, which only makes things harder, plus being pear shaped so my weight tends to accumulate below the waist.  Plus being short, plus edema in my feet and legs which is unrelenting despite medication.  It runs in my family - I had it even when I was young and skinny.  My mother had these issues too, I remember. The edema makes it hard to be flexible and causes pain in the muscles.  I used to think my mom wasn't pushing herself hard enough to exercise, but now I know better now that I'm older.  That's why I don't judge people.  If they say they've reached their limit, listen.  They're not all fat lazy slobs.  Some of us are doing the best we can....

Edited December 2, 2015 by Snarklepuss

[ClareWalks]

Snarklepuss I think some folks object to your describing them as "lucky" because they are able to achieve something through hard work. Believe it or not, people who exercise a lot often have to work really hard at it, and aren't just "lucky" to be "naturally gifted." Personal example: my foot structure is terrible. I've actually been told by podiatrists that my bones/ligaments are in the 99th percentile for flexibility, meaning they are extremely weak and floppy, which leads to tons of lower leg injuries. I cannot run more than 1/10th of a mile without crippling shin pain. I had to work extremely hard to be able to finish 5K, then half marathons, then full marathons. I also get massive blisters, we're talking 2" diameter. My body fights me every step of the way, and I have to walk instead of run, but I work very hard and have accomplished a good amount. I would hate for someone to say I'm "lucky," since my genetic foot issues make me anything but. I have never denigrated your accomplishments with diet and exercise and I know you are defensive about anything Whitney-judgement-adjacent, but we aren't all lucky natural athletes ourselves.

[RCharter]

Snarklepuss I think some folks object to your describing them as "lucky" because they are able to achieve something through hard work. Believe it or not, people who exercise a lot often have to work really hard at it, and aren't just "lucky" to be "naturally gifted." Personal example: my foot structure is terrible. I've actually been told by podiatrists that my bones/ligaments are in the 99th percentile for flexibility, meaning they are extremely weak and floppy, which leads to tons of lower leg injuries. I cannot run more than 1/10th of a mile without crippling shin pain. I had to work extremely hard to be able to finish 5K, then half marathons, then full marathons. I also get massive blisters, we're talking 2" diameter. My body fights me every step of the way, and I have to walk instead of run, but I work very hard and have accomplished a good amount. I would hate for someone to say I'm "lucky," since my genetic foot issues make me anything but. I have never denigrated your accomplishments with diet and exercise and I know you are defensive about anything Whitney-judgement-adjacent, but we aren't all lucky natural athletes ourselves.

well put.  

[Tosia]

You got it , snarklepuss, we are all doing the best we can. I was never a natural athlete. I am short, pear-shaped, and have short limbs. But I can be slow and steady, and persistent, at best. Better than nothing. Do whatever you can.

I love this part of ptv...that we relate to each other via Whitney's show. Guess she is doing some good after all. And I hate to admit that or give her credit to crow about. Daymummm.

[MrHufflepuff]

PCOS or not, I don't think many 400 pound people have gotten that big without eating a lot of food. I keep picturing Whitney eating that huge container of ice cream in her SUV...how many normal people would eat that much at one time? She is wearing what she eats period.

 

This.  I'm sympathetic to the POCS/weight-loss issues.  I don't have PCOS, but I do have crappy knees.  It took me forever to find a default diet and exercise regiment that I could stick to and that worked.  But, if Whitney is binge eating ice cream when she's upset, that's just an unhealthy relationship with food.  PCOS or not, she has to fix her emotional relationship with food.  The PCOS may contribute to her weight but her emotional relationship with food is also contributing.  This is one of those things where there are multiple problems that need to be worked on at the same time (medical issues with PCOS, emotional relationship with food, bad eating habits, etc.) and she just doesn't seem to really be working on any of them.   Or at least the show is making her seem like that.  YMMV.

Edited December 3, 2015 by MrHufflepuff

[LibertarianSlut]

If she is maintaining 400 pounds on a certain number of calories, she should be able to cut those calories and lose weight.  I suspect she is eating far more than 2000 calories a day to maintain a 400 pound frame.  I wonder how many people on "The Biggest Loser" had PCOS, insulin resistance, etc, etc.  They were all able to lose weight by calorie cutting and working out.  I get that the Biggest Loser is the extreme, but it does show that those traditional methods that people with PCOS say won't work....can work.   The traditional mechanics still work, so yes, Whitney should be able to cut calories, workout more and lose weight.  Jillian Michaels apparently has PCOS too.

 

Putting age aside for a minute--I'll get to that in another minute--I'd love to get someone like Whitney in a structured environment and see how fast she loses weight, not if. She's already proven that she can lose weight. I thought the idea for her to go on The Biggest Loser was brilliant. I believe the contestants have to pass a physical before they go on the show, which someone like Whitney would pass with flying colors, according to her. Some overweight people are going to have a really tough time losing weight. To take it to its extreme, an obese person with no arms or legs may not be able to find a way to lose 100 lbs (although I think most of them could, with the right diet--most, not all). But a person in their early 30s with no health problems that prevent exercise, like Whitney, could go on TBL, or go to one of their for-profit camps that they run across the country. Once she spends time there and there are no hiding places, I think the weight would come off quickly.

And then there's:

let's say for the sake of argument that due to verifiable metabolic issues, a hypothetical person can only maintain a healthy weight with severe caloric restriction and intense exercise like we see on TBL. Is that really a choice? Is it sustainable with family, jobs, etc. for the long run? Should people with 200 or 300 pounds to lose be running marathons and exercising until they vomit? Could we blame someone for deciding not to do that? Many TBL contestants have regained their weight. Some have developed eating disorders or heart problems. And given the negative publicity around the use of direutics, questionable supplements and/or drugs, injuries, lying about timeframes for weight loss ("weeks" that are really 10-14 days), TBL is not necessarily the best example of eat less (but Extra gum and Jennie O turkey!) and move more- if anything it shows the kind of extremes some people have to go to for weight loss, and that even under highly supervised conditions people don't always lose the predictable amount of weight.

I only watched one season of The Biggest Loser--the one with the former athletes. But what I can say is that we are all free people and life is all about priorities. If someone has metabolic issues, of course it's their choice to exercise extra hard and eat an extremely calorie restricted diet or not. Some people would rather do that, and some people would rather be overweight. One isn't necessarily more moral than the other. As far as the other accusations of maladies--exercising until the point of vomitus, regaining weight, eating disorders, heart problems, "questionable" supplements, and injuries...these critiques are all anecdotal, but even so, have there been any long-term studies that conclude that simply remaining at 2-300 lbs overweight is a better bet? I can only speak hypothetically, but I'd rather go through hell on a regular basis than be as fat as Whitney, because that would be a constant hell for me. And even if TBL fibs about timelines, it's still damn impressive for people to regularly lose 6-9 lbs a week/every 10 days/every two weeks. In the one season I watched, each person who stayed (and about 90% of the people who got sent home) had systematic, continuous, and significant weight loss, without exception. That's impressive to me.

I don't really think about MBFFL even when I'm watching it--I think it's kind of boring. I think about it when I'm working out on my treadmill, basically busting my ass. I exercise just about every day, and what I eat isn't exactly exciting either. I am very close in age with Whitney, and I have an extra bedroom in my apartment. Every once in awhile I fantasize that she'll move in while I'm on my "Super Atkins" diet, which consists of egg whites and a moderate amount of bacon for breakfast, lunch is either turkey, tuna with mayo, or hot dogs with mustard, dinner is chicken breast with iceberg lettuce with oil & vinegar, and a small cube of cheese for "dessert." That's about 3g carbs day, and, yes, it's boring and it doesn't make me feel energetic. Yes, it involves processed food and nitrates and GMO whoseywhatsits. But I don't care, because when I do this, my personal priority is to lose weight, and weight loss is plentiful. My goal when I'm on "Super Atkins" isn't to maximize my health, and I think that's a valid choice--quick weight loss over health--for an adult to make (and, in my experience, at least, you don't regain the weight as soon as you stop, because when I stop, I'm still eating healthfully). So, anyway, if a 350+ lb girl moved in with me and followed my diet/exercise regime for two weeks, including "Super Atkins" if need be, and she didn't lose weight, I would be willing to go to a public place and present her with something akin to one of those giant checks, only instead of it being a check, it would be a huge hall pass that would be inscribed "pass for life." I bet Whitney would love that. But she'd have to earn it.

I don't think weekly "dance" classes and some riding on a bicycle make one active. If you're not getting your heart rate up and keeping it up on a regular basis, you're not really in the game.

Back to older people--I feel like we are just trading anecdotes here, so I'll add my $.02. My mom, who is in her mid-sixties, is thin. She's not "thin" like Babs, she's a size four. When I was growing up, she was always a size eight. I asked her relatively recently what caused the weight change, and she said she just started making different life choices, like forgoing coffee and a muffin in the afternoon. She walks each of my parents' dogs separately every day. If she senses she is gaining even a little weight, she walks the dogs twice a day (they love it). She's also extremely mobile, to the point that I find it sometimes bordering on manic. But this is what she does because she refuses to be fat. And she had a hysterectomy when I was three, so it's not like she's not someone who has something health-related against her. My dad has a similar story, as in he was always a little overweight when I was growing up, but now that he's older, he's permanently modified his diet to the extent that he is now living at a healthy weight. I'm sure there are people who, for various reasons, cannot function at a healthy weight, but I think it's the exception, not the rule. Look at all the stories on this board attesting to that.

I don't think it's doing anyone--especially a relatively young person--any favors to assume they can't lose weight because of x or y reason. I think it's more humanizing to first try everything and give each attempt time to work--and only after everything has failed do you come to the conclusion that this isn't going to work for health reasons.

BTW this isn't directed at any particular posters. It's stuff that's been percolating watching Whitney for about the last 2/3 of the season. I really thought she was going to do the weight loss thing this year, and when she didn't, I was bitterly disappointed at the wasted opportunity.

[RCharter]

 

I don't think weekly "dance" classes and some riding on a bicycle make one active. If you're not getting your heart rate up and keeping it up on a regular basis, you're not really in the game.

.

I agree with the majority of your post.  But I really agree with this, and I haven't found a way to say it tactfully.

 

I am at the gym 5-6 days a week, and I run.  I've noticed that there are certain people that seem to come to the gym just to watch free Bravo.  They set the treadmill to 2.5 mph for an hour so they can watch the Real Housewives, or Below Deck.  Better yet, the people having full on hour long phone conversations on the treadmill with ease because they aren't working that hard.  Of course, past a certain age, people aren't going to be running on a treadmill, but these are generally fairly young people.

 

And I feel like these are the people that would tell you "but I'm at the gym for an hour a day and I'm not losing any weight!"  And perhaps they genuinely believe that just being at the gym or just being on a machine will result in weight loss.  But like you said, its not just being there...you have to be there.

[Snarklepuss]

You got it , snarklepuss, we are all doing the best we can. I was never a natural athlete. I am short, pear-shaped, and have short limbs. But I can be slow and steady, and persistent, at best. Better than nothing. Do whatever you can.

I love this part of ptv...that we relate to each other via Whitney's show. Guess she is doing some good after all. And I hate to admit that or give her credit to crow about. Daymummm.

 

Thank you, I do what I can, it's obviously just never enough for some people because it doesn't lead to weight loss.  I'm not going to injure myself to the point of not being able to walk just to lose some weight.  It's not worth it.  I've already almost done that a couple of times due to exercise and I can't afford to sit home while a foot or a leg heals.  I have to work a full time job in a stressful office and I can't afford a housecleaner or to scale back to a less stressful job.  When I come home, I am exhausted and I resent being told I'm just not doing enough.  I am a very driven person who works harder than most people I know so I'm sorry but it really bugs me to hear people act as if I have no clue how to push myself.  I push myself harder than most people ever realize just to do what I do now.  Everyone is different and my tolerance and endurance level is not what other people's is, and yes, they are LUCKY if there's is higher than mine.  When I was younger I could do all those things and then some but now, forget it, no matter how hard I try it's not happening.  I know my limitations and I'm not looking to put myself in an early grave.  My mother pushed herself too hard and ended up dying before she should have.  My father is the opposite.  He conserves his energy and paces himself and is presently a very robust and active 88 year old.  He didn't get that way by pushing himself into an early grave.  The longer I live the more my father's life becomes a lesson for me.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Snarklepuss

[LibertarianSlut]

I am at the gym 5-6 days a week, and I run.  I've noticed that there are certain people that seem to come to the gym just to watch free Bravo.  They set the treadmill to 2.5 mph for an hour so they can watch the Real Housewives, or Below Deck.  Better yet, the people having full on hour long phone conversations on the treadmill with ease because they aren't working that hard.  Of course, past a certain age, people aren't going to be running on a treadmill, but these are generally fairly young people.

Wait, you know people who enjoy watching Bravo?!? Everyone in my life, boyfriend included, thinks it's trash, and the only time I can talk about it is here. I need to meet some of these lazy-asses at your gym.

Sorry, I'm just trying to lighten the mood a little bit. Thanks for liking my post RCharter, and a lot of times I find your posts sum up issues I don't know how to word.

I know this is not the Whitney page, so I'm going to be vague: I think a lot of the frustration toward fat people is geared specifically toward someone who is 350+ pounds, who is relatively young and healthy, and not injured and not in a stressful situation. Change up any of these factors and I have empathy for the person (is it empathy? Or sympathy when you're not in the other person's shoes?) I'm mature enough to understand that people are multifaceted. When there is a very fat woman, say, on Judge Judy, I don't think, "oh, she looks lazy. I bet she's not getting her heart rate up. Why doesn't she limit her starches?" Who CARES if any given individual is fat? I've dated fat, I've had fat friends...never had fat enemies, but I'm sure that's coming one day. It's this one fat person that irks me, because of these factors: I think she can lose a significant amount of weight, but she pretends she can't, and, I don't know, cause I'm not around her 24/7, but I think she's bullshitting about what she eats and how much activity she gets. I'm using the word "bullshitting" very specifically. There was recently a book written on the topic. It happens when someone disregards the truth in favor of their own agenda, basically. And it's worse than lying, because when people bullshit, they have no regard for the truth, rather than liars, who at least know they're not telling the truth.

So I don't object to the size as much as I object to the bullshit. Someone can be 350+ pounds and I won't judge them, but just be honest about what you're doing, man. If you're eating a bag of Doritos in your room alone because you have a low-grade level of anxiety about the state of your life--awesome, I've been there! Please, talk about it! I'll listen. I won't pretend to have every answer. And if eating a bag of Doritos would cause the average person to gain a pound, but it causes you to gain three pounds cause of PCOS, so you feel so ashamed and guilty that you eat another bag and gain six pounds, again, ok. I'm here for that story. I'm just tired of hearing stories about how a young woman is active and healthy when clearly something else is going on.

When I was in my early 20s I was in a group that got together to talk about eating issues, whether it was full-blown eating disorder, or just having binges every so often and being like "what the hell was that about?" I had a friend in the group who would call certain people fat behind their backs. I never said it, cause I was dealing with my own stuff, but I realize now, years later, that he really only called the people fat who were bullshitting--people who were still grossly overweight, but touted their own greatness because supposedly they hadn't touched sugar or white flour in over a decade. It's not the 'fat' that I think people so much object to; it's the pretenses some people put on. There were other, fat people there, who were either trying and succeeding, or trying and struggling, that wouldn't be called names, because they were there for the right reason. Is it ever right to call a name? No, and that's why I didn't do it. I'm just trying to illustrate the difference between the intentions involved.

So it is that frustration with someone's fakery that causes me to get a little nutty in the other direction, and advocate for unhealthy eating rather than being fat. That happens to be my current attitude toward myself because I'm a little neurotic, but it's not my attitude toward fat people in general. I think people should do whatever makes them happy. I respect people whether they smoke cigarettes, drink, do drugs, overeat, exercise, don't exercise--whatever--out of my natural respect for the individual, and his right to choose the lifestyle he wishes. Do I have preferences for myself and the people I love? Yes. Am I sometimes destructive? Yes. Would I be friends with someone with destructive tendencies? Yes. I have a huge tolerance for flaws, and flawed people. I guess I just don't like to be bullshitted.

Last point I want to make: some of the criticism I have is because of the sheer size of the person in question. I don't think you can be that size without disordered eating. So my sentiments toward someone who is 350-400 lbs are going to be very different than if someone is merely overweight, obese, or even morbidly obese. I know there is a contingent on this board that believes someone can get to 400 without overeating, and to those people I will say we have to respectfully agree to disagree.

I guess I am posting again on a board I never post on because I would hate if anyone felt, or feels, judged by my prior comments. I stand by what I said, but only in the context of this television program, and limited other instances, like the able-bodied people who walk 2.5 mph on the treadmill, and whine they can't lose weight even though they exercise an hour a day. For those who are out there fighting the good fight, I've got nothing but love for you. If you overeat, or binge, like I just did on Thanksgiving, or under-eat, I'm not here to judge. I still reserve the right to snark, but I'm trying to come from a good place. Andddddd I'm off the soapbox.

[RCharter]

NBluth -- awww, sweet, thanks!  I find your post well put and agree.  And don't for a nanosecond get it twisted, I watch all sorts of terrible reality shows on Bravo and other stations.  Bravo reality shows are almost too classy for me, since I watch Bad Girls Club, Mob Wives, LHH, etc, etc.  :)

 

100% agree about the bullshitting thing.  And I can't put it any more perfectly so I won't even try.  But, this is why I think the "no BS" campaign could be so much more interesting.  I think it should be less about why you're overweight/obese, and just accepting a person's body no matter what.  I think it would cut down on people bullshitting, because at this point I get the impression feel the need to bullshit others because they personally don't want to lose any weight, but at the same time they don't want to be shamed.  So they come up with bullshit, but if no one cared about their size, the need to bullshit would go away.

 

But, like you, I don't like to be bullshitted.  I'm not a dummy, and bullshitting me is treating me like one.  And honestly, the bullshitters dirty the water for those with actual medical conditions.  Which stinks for people with real medical conditions who get lumped in with bullshitters.

[ClareWalks]

Yes, it is ironic that the leader of the No BS campaign is herself feeding us a lot of BS ;)

[Snarklepuss]

I envy people who can just forego a muffin and walk the dogs another time in order to keep their weight down.  Me I pull out ALL the stops and the scale doesn't move and I am not a BS artist and resent that people take that attitude with me.  I don't even have the luxury of being able to eat a freaking muffin (they're full of fat, sugar, flour and calories anyway).  I refuse to be fat too but my body doesn't cooperate with me!  My mother told me this happened to her and back then I like most people didn't believe she tried hard enough.  But back then my body cooperated with me.  Now that what happened to her is happening to me, I know better. 

 

I have been to several doctors but only one homeopathic doctor was willing to consider that I might have hypothyroid (my mother did).  My test results (even the extensive ones) always come out "normal".  He put me on natural thyroid medicine but guess what?  I am hypersensitive to hormones.  I could not even take estrogen or projesterone much less thyroid hormones.  I have an extremely bad reaction to all of them.  We're talking sick and in bed bad.  And I'm not some kind of weirdo who has psychological issues with these things either.  He actually told me he couldn't help me if I couldn't take the hormones and sent me on my way!  Again, I envy people who have the good fortune to find a way to deal with their weight issues because no matter what I have done it hasn't worked.  So much for all the armchair experts if even the doctors don't know how to help me!

Edited December 3, 2015 by Snarklepuss

[RCharter]

I envy people who can just forego a muffin and walk the dogs another time in order to keep their weight down.  Me I pull out ALL the stops and the scale doesn't move and I am not a BS artist and resent that people take that attitude with me.  I don't even have the luxury of being able to eat a freaking muffin (they're full of fat, sugar, flour and calories anyway).  I refuse to be fat too but my body doesn't cooperate with me!  My mother told me this happened to her and back then I like most people didn't believe she tried hard enough.  But back then my body cooperated with me.  Now that what happened to her is happening to me, I know better. 

 

I have been to several doctors but only one homeopathic doctor was willing to consider that I might have hypothyroid (my mother did).  My test results (even the extensive ones) always come out "normal".  He put me on natural thyroid medicine but guess what?  I am hypersensitive to hormones.  I could not even take estrogen or projesterone much less thyroid hormones.  I have an extremely bad reaction to all of them.  We're talking sick and in bed bad.  And I'm not some kind of weirdo who has psychological issues with these things either.  He actually told me he couldn't help me if I couldn't take the hormones and sent me on my way!  Again, I envy people who have the good fortune to find a way to deal with their weight issues because no matter what I have done it hasn't worked.  So much for all the armchair experts if even the doctors don't know how to help me!

So you took the thyroid hormone replacement and got sick?  You tried all the thyroid hormone replacements and got sick?  Have you tried the natural ones that are created in compounding pharmacies?  Replacing the hormone your body is not producing is really the standard treatment for hypothyroidism.  I've done some research because I believe I have that condition as well.  My test results are not in the testing center's reference range, but they are within the range accepted by the American Association of Endocrinologists renewed guidelines.  But even then, hypothyroidism should add about 10-30 pounds, and that has been in all the literature I've read on the subject.  

 

Right now I'm not on any treatment for the condition since it takes an act of Congress to get a referral to my endocrinologist from my HMO, and while its been difficult to lose any weight, it hasn't been impossible.....even without any medication.    But this isn't luck, or good fortune, this is hard work I have to put in on a daily basis because I'm not on medication and I don't want my weight gain to get out of control.  

 

There have been people that have tried iodine/selenium as well, I'm not sure if you're sensitive to those as well, but it may be something to think about if you haven't tried it already.  It seems to work better for people who are within "normal" range, but have been diagnosed based off the fact that they exhibit symptoms of hypothyroidism.

Edited December 3, 2015 by RCharter

[LibertarianSlut]

I envy people who can just forego a muffin and walk the dogs another time in order to keep their weight down.  Me I pull out ALL the stops and the scale doesn't move and I am not a BS artist and resent that people take that attitude with me.  I don't even have the luxury of being able to eat a freaking muffin (they're full of fat, sugar, flour and calories anyway).  I refuse to be fat too but my body doesn't cooperate with me!  My mother told me this happened to her and back then I like most people didn't believe she tried hard enough.  But back then my body cooperated with me.  Now that what happened to her is happening to me, I know better.

Snarklepuss, I'm sorry if the example I used made you feel like I was setting up a standard for how people should live, and anybody who did not or could not do the same were somehow inferior. That's part of the reason I issued a long, rambling mea culpa. It sounds like you're really going through something. It must be frustrating as anything. I hope you don't take anything I've said about people like Whitney as a judgment of you. The situations are like day and night. In fact, I'll go as far as to say that I think that if someone like Whitney made the lifestyle changes to lose 150+ lbs, and got down to the 200 lbs you are, I think a lot of people would be lauding her as a success story.

I'm going to go back to lurking for awhile. I love to read y'alls posts though. I'm learning so much.

[RCharter]

Snarklepuss, I'm sorry if the example I used made you feel like I was setting up a standard for how people should live, and anybody who did not or could not do the same were somehow inferior. That's part of the reason I issued a long, rambling mea culpa. It sounds like you're really going through something. It must be frustrating as anything. I hope you don't take anything I've said about people like Whitney as a judgment of you. The situations are like day and night. In fact, I'll go as far as to say that I think that if someone like Whitney made the lifestyle changes to lose 150+ lbs, and got down to the 200 lbs you are, I think a lot of people would be lauding her as a success story.

I'm going to go back to lurking for awhile. I love to read y'alls posts though. I'm learning so much.

I understand, but I hope you come back out and engage again soon, I think you add to the discussion....and so I'm sorta sad you're going back to lurker status

[Tosia]

Weight loss is incredibly complicated.  Weight loss is in the kitchen; Health is in the gym.  I've have been doing research (seriously perusing "diet" books employing my BS detector overtime), and have found that: eating veggies/some fruits, light protein like chicken/fish and some nuts/beans, and some light oils is the food--the difficulty is learning to cook these in the most low cal way and  getting used to less SUPER-FLAVOR provided by sugar, salt, and fat.  

 

Exercise helps tone your muscles and generally keeps you healthy. I read that exercise is MOST important  when trying to maintain a weight loss because it is easier to walk off.work out a  muffin, because it's not a giant amount of food. It works, as long as you (or your kids/family/friends)  keep that exercise up, and don't get tired, stressed, overworked, afford a gym, cold/hot outside, sick, injured, get in an accident,pull muscles, or develop/have genetics for a disability that limits your mobility. 

 

Then there is dealing with your psychological health due to ALL the other issues you deal with each day (plus from your past--family, relationships, life,  etc. 

 

The rest of the story is in learning to ignore commercials, ads, smells, and pictures of super-processed foods that are EVERYWHERE.  Even diet ads/articles  show fat foods to get your attention. 

 

I saw a saying that, "You have to fall in love with healthy", which I like, although I get tired of reading the diet books, and some days, chocolate helps. And wine. I have some motivational/inspirational books that help me--as do people who notice my efforts to do all the above. I am in Weight Watchers also-- and they are AGAIN revamping their program in January 2016.  I imagine Oprah's $ motivated those changes.  I also bought some cute clothes in November which are XL, and I am 1XL now, so they're my actual, inspiration to fit soon (cuz they're winter clothes). 

 

BTW, The best books are by docs Brain Wansink--easy to read and leaf through anywhere for ideas; and Yoni Freehoff--who says that diets are unrealistic because eating is pleasure and we need to enjoy life--with moderation, of course.  

 

Another saying is that "We all need to be kind to each other, because everyone of us is carrying significant, personal issues inside".  And we wouldn't trade our problems for another's problems.  Go out there and be your usual awesome self, cuz somebody loves you.  Hey, it's Friday! TGIF!

[RCharter]

^^I agree.  Cooking takes time and effort, but its worth it.  When you think about it, food is like tasty, low grade medication.  We eat much more often than we take medication and we can be putting in vitamins, minerals and nutrients....or we can be putting in sugar, salt, and other dead weight (pun intended!).  

 

Not to mention that processed food is meant to be a "party in your mouth" and food companies have a profit motive to get you to eat as much processed food as possible.  Its the only way you'll go out and buy more processed food.  So, there is an effort to make it hard to stop at one serving and easy to eat, eat, eat.  I was too worn out to cook yesterday, and I opened up a bag of pop-crisps ("healthy" chips), before I turned around, the bag was done.  Shameful!  But exactly how the food is designed. Because pop-crisps makes more money with every bag of pop-crisps I open and consume.  Mother nature doesn't really have a profit motive, which is why you can eat an apple or two and feel relatively full (although all bets are off when it comes to watermelon for me)

 

Someone once told me that the secret to healthy eating was to do all your grocery shopping at the perimeter of the store.  And it sort of makes sense when you think about it.  You have the fresh produce on one end.  Milk and dairy on another end.  Meat/seafood on another end.  And checkout stands in the front.  Of course, at many grocery stores they put the cakes/breads at the perimeter too....but still.

 

Good luck on your cute clothes!  I hope you can rock them soon!

Edited December 4, 2015 by RCharter

[Snarklepuss]

So you took the thyroid hormone replacement and got sick?  You tried all the thyroid hormone replacements and got sick?  Have you tried the natural ones that are created in compounding pharmacies?  Replacing the hormone your body is not producing is really the standard treatment for hypothyroidism.  I've done some research because I believe I have that condition as well.  My test results are not in the testing center's reference range, but they are within the range accepted by the American Association of Endocrinologists renewed guidelines.  But even then, hypothyroidism should add about 10-30 pounds, and that has been in all the literature I've read on the subject.  

 

Right now I'm not on any treatment for the condition since it takes an act of Congress to get a referral to my endocrinologist from my HMO, and while its been difficult to lose any weight, it hasn't been impossible.....even without any medication.    But this isn't luck, or good fortune, this is hard work I have to put in on a daily basis because I'm not on medication and I don't want my weight gain to get out of control.  

 

There have been people that have tried iodine/selenium as well, I'm not sure if you're sensitive to those as well, but it may be something to think about if you haven't tried it already.  It seems to work better for people who are within "normal" range, but have been diagnosed based off the fact that they exhibit symptoms of hypothyroidism.

 

Interestingly I've tried all of these things.  Originally my doctor thought that the compounding pharmacy could make a lower dose time release formulation of the natural thyroid hormone that would work for me, but unfortunately it didn't.  Even the tiniest dose of any hormone wacks me out completely - Seriously, even if crumbled the pill into a tiny dab of powder it would be bad enough for me to have to stay home in bed all day!  I couldn't believe it because although I am generally sensitive to medication it's normally not THAT bad.  I was told by a hormone specialist that I am ultra-sensitive to hormones of any kind, whether natural or synthetic.  I'd be interested in hearing about any non-hormonal approaches - I've read some books on the subject and they all center around diet and lifestyle changes but if there is anything else I haven't tried, I'd like to hear about it.

 

 

Snarklepuss, I'm sorry if the example I used made you feel like I was setting up a standard for how people should live, and anybody who did not or could not do the same were somehow inferior. That's part of the reason I issued a long, rambling mea culpa. It sounds like you're really going through something. It must be frustrating as anything. I hope you don't take anything I've said about people like Whitney as a judgment of you. The situations are like day and night. In fact, I'll go as far as to say that I think that if someone like Whitney made the lifestyle changes to lose 150+ lbs, and got down to the 200 lbs you are, I think a lot of people would be lauding her as a success story.

I'm going to go back to lurking for awhile. I love to read y'alls posts though. I'm learning so much.

 

Awww, thanks, I really appreciate it!  I had to take a time out from the discussion for several reasons.  I just needed to get some perspective plus I am so frustrated because I've tried so many things that just don't seem to work.  Fortunately whatever I'm doing now is at least helping me to maintain my weight, which is actually quite an accomplishment.  I attribute that to cutting out added sugar and limiting carbs.  Plus, right now the weather is helping me feel better.  My edema has worsened to the point where I'm very uncomfortable and lethargic in the warm weather.  My weight also fluctuates a lot more between seasons as I get older so I actually drop a few pounds of water weight in the fall and winter.  I feel sooo much more energetic at this time of year because it's cool and dry as opposed to hot and humid and I can wear tall boots that provide compression to my legs, which helps a lot.  So part of my problem centers around that too, and the water pills are inadequate to address the severity of my condition.

 

I understand, but I hope you come back out and engage again soon, I think you add to the discussion....and so I'm sorta sad you're going back to lurker status

 

Thanks again, that really means so much!  As you see I am back and happy to be.  Your concern really helps.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Snarklepuss

[Snarklepuss]

There have been people that have tried iodine/selenium as well, I'm not sure if you're sensitive to those as well, but it may be something to think about if you haven't tried it already.  It seems to work better for people who are within "normal" range, but have been diagnosed based off the fact that they exhibit symptoms of hypothyroidism.

 

I have been taking both iodine and selenium - I take quite a few supplements that are supposed to help.  I have to watch the amount of iodine because I've read that it can be dangerous to take too much, plus I will have a reaction if I take too much.  I actually think they help about as much as they can.  I often say that if I didn't do everything I do I would likely be 300 lbs. by now.  I suppose 200 is better than 300.  I have to start looking at the bright side!

[RCharter]

Interestingly I've tried all of these things.  Originally my doctor thought that the compounding pharmacy could make a lower dose time release formulation of the natural thyroid hormone that would work for me, but unfortunately it didn't.  Even the tiniest dose of any hormone wacks me out completely - Seriously, even if crumbled the pill into a tiny dab of powder it would be bad enough for me to have to stay home in bed all day!  I couldn't believe it because although I am generally sensitive to medication it's normally not THAT bad.  I was told by a hormone specialist that I am ultra-sensitive to hormones of any kind, whether natural or synthetic.  I'd be interested in hearing about any non-hormonal approaches - I've read some books on the subject and they all center around diet and lifestyle changes but if there is anything else I haven't tried, I'd like to hear about it.

 

Thanks again, that really means so much!  As you see I am back and happy to be.  Your concern really helps.

 

I've heard that a gluten free diet can help with hypothyroidism as well.  I had adopted a gluten free diet a while back and it helped me feel a little bit better.  I can't remember the reasoning as to why a gluten free diet would help with hypothyroidism, but there seems to be some evidence that it brings the TSH numbers down.  Which is probably part of the reason I'm "in range" even though I'm pretty sure I have hypothyroidism.

 

I've read some stuff on iodine/selenium and some people swear by it.  If I come across any of the stuff I've read I'll post the links.  Here are two, but there are many more

 

https://www.womentowomen.com/thyroid-health/thyroid-health-and-selenium/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19594417

 

Of course, the biggest problem with things on the internet is that for every person who swears by something, there is another person who will tell you its the worst thing ever.  I found the second article interesting because I know that I really try to limit my salt intake because salt makes me swell and because I have high blood pressure.  But salt seems to be the way most people get iodine, so that may be a reason why people are iodine deficient.

 

I hope some of this helps.  I'm pretty sure I have a thyroid problem, and it is the worst.

Snarklepuss -- I posted my comment after your follow up comment!  Maybe its a matter of just getting the right dosage.  It seems like such a tightrope act.

[RCharter]

@ClareWalks -- hey, I vaguely remember you saying that you were a nutritionist or dietician....or something that made me think you had some authority/knowledge, so I wanted to get your take......I'm thinking of doing a detox and I'm just wondering if you have any experience with it.  I've been feeling super bloated lately and its making it tough to do my running.  Any thoughts you had would be appreciated.

[ClareWalks]

1 hour ago, RCharter said:

@ClareWalks -- hey, I vaguely remember you saying that you were a nutritionist or dietician....or something that made me think you had some authority/knowledge, so I wanted to get your take......I'm thinking of doing a detox and I'm just wondering if you have any experience with it.  I've been feeling super bloated lately and its making it tough to do my running.  Any thoughts you had would be appreciated.

I am a personal trainer so I am not qualified to give people too much diet advice, but I personally have never done a detox. I know other trainers who have, and I respect them highly, so it's not that detoxes are inherently unsafe, I would just make sure I did one right (not the lemon juice-cayenne pepper thing, haha). You might try just doing a week or two of super clean eating along with drinking a gallon of water a day, and see if that helps. It might just be a buildup of sodium. If you focus on water, fruits and vegetables, and lean protein (with not much salt - try foods with potassium instead), you will probably see a reduction in water retention extremely quickly. I know what you mean, though, bloating SUCKS!

[RCharter]

2 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

I am a personal trainer so I am not qualified to give people too much diet advice, but I personally have never done a detox. I know other trainers who have, and I respect them highly, so it's not that detoxes are inherently unsafe, I would just make sure I did one right (not the lemon juice-cayenne pepper thing, haha). You might try just doing a week or two of super clean eating along with drinking a gallon of water a day, and see if that helps. It might just be a buildup of sodium. If you focus on water, fruits and vegetables, and lean protein (with not much salt - try foods with potassium instead), you will probably see a reduction in water retention extremely quickly. I know what you mean, though, bloating SUCKS!

Thank you, I knew it was something.  You still know more about health/fitness than I do, so there is that.  I'm certainly not wanting to do the lemon juice/cayenne thing.  I'm pretty sure I would end up going into hunger rage...although I do have a lemon tree AND cayenne pepper....so maybe :)

It could be sodium -- but I don't think I've eaten a ton of sodium recently, so I wasn't sure where this was coming from.  Bloating is sort of the worst, I just feel weighed down when I try to run and I hate it the worst.  

Thanks for the information/advice I may just try that instead...although I tend to go overboard with fruits and get bloated again :(  Im sort of the worst! 

[ClareWalks]

2 minutes ago, RCharter said:

Thank you, I knew it was something.  You still know more about health/fitness than I do, so there is that.  I'm certainly not wanting to do the lemon juice/cayenne thing.  I'm pretty sure I would end up going into hunger rage...although I do have a lemon tree AND cayenne pepper....so maybe :)

It could be sodium -- but I don't think I've eaten a ton of sodium recently, so I wasn't sure where this was coming from.  Bloating is sort of the worst, I just feel weighed down when I try to run and I hate it the worst.  

Thanks for the information/advice I may just try that instead...although I tend to go overboard with fruits and get bloated again :(  Im sort of the worst! 

I went through a phase where I ate a big salad (with just vinegar on it) every day for breakfast. I don't know if there's any "science" to it, but it made me feel really good. Starting the day off right and getting me energized without a crash later. I tended to make better choices all day. It's also a good way to focus more on veggies :)

[RCharter]

1 minute ago, ClareWalks said:

I went through a phase where I ate a big salad (with just vinegar on it) every day for breakfast. I don't know if there's any "science" to it, but it made me feel really good. Starting the day off right and getting me energized without a crash later. I tended to make better choices all day. It's also a good way to focus more on veggies :)

thats interesting....I'm one of those people that take the sleep over the breakfast, but maybe I need to start eating something super healthy like that in the morning.  Maybe something with cucumber....

[Barb23]

3 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

I went through a phase where I ate a big salad (with just vinegar on it) every day for breakfast. I don't know if there's any "science" to it, but it made me feel really good. Starting the day off right and getting me energized without a crash later. I tended to make better choices all day. It's also a good way to focus more on veggies :)

My brother starts his day with Apple cider vinegar in a glass of water & swears by it.  My SIL & BIL drink  warm water with lemon added to it daily(no pepper).  She has digestive issues & says it has helped. 

[ClareWalks]

1 minute ago, Barb23 said:

My brother starts his day with Apple cider vinegar in a glass of water & swears by it.  My SIL & BIL drink  warm water with lemon added to it daily(no pepper).  She has digestive issues & says it has helped. 

Makes sense, I'm sure the acids help certain digestive issues :) Plus some people are just freaks about vinegar. I personally love it. My husband can't stand the smell of it, haha

[RCharter]

4 minutes ago, Barb23 said:

My brother starts his day with Apple cider vinegar in a glass of water & swears by it.  My SIL & BIL drink  warm water with lemon added to it daily(no pepper).  She has digestive issues & says it has helped. 

you know, I used to do this....and I'm not sure if it helped, but i actually liked it.....i think i have some bragg's in a cabinet, I may try the acv + water thing again.

[yogi2014L]

1 hour ago, RCharter said:

you know, I used to do this....and I'm not sure if it helped, but i actually liked it.....i think i have some bragg's in a cabinet, I may try the acv + water thing again.

The first time i did that i did not use enough water and nearly died. It was awful. I was gagging the whole way to work!!!!

[RCharter]

1 minute ago, yogi2014L said:

The first time i did that i did not use enough water and nearly died. It was awful. I was gagging the whole way to work!!!!

LMAO!  Thats hilarious, because I could totally see that happening

[ClareWalks]

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/fda-approves-weight-loss-stomach-pump-aspireassist-combat-obesity-n592141

The FDA has approved this new device that lets the user pump liquidy food from their own stomach. I mean...my immediate reaction is nausea. It sounds DISGUSTING. It also sounds like it enables overeating behaviors as opposed to weight loss surgery which stops overeating behaviors. The manufacturers say it's not medically-assisted bulimia but it sure seems like it :(