Spoilers With Speculation

[catrox14]

 

However, I just think it would be a funny scene and Jensen would rock it. Not everything I wish for has to be plot driven.

 

For me, if we have that scene I don't want it to be funny. I want it to be deadly serious. I kind of still want Dean to hunt God like he said he would at the end of s5.

[DittyDotDot]

Sorry, I'm at work and not taking the time to re-read my posts...I really wasn't clear. It's not that I want it to be a laughingly-funny and/or goofy scene--it wouldn't work if Dean was just joshing his way through it--it's that I think the concept is funny.

Edited December 2, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[AwesomO4000]

I kind of still want Dean to hunt God like he said he would at the end of s5.

 

Ah, good. I wasn't imagining this. I mentioned it in my babbling earlier, but couldn't quite remember exactly when Dean said this or the exact quote, but I was pretty sure it had something to do with Dean being angry about Sam having to jump into the pit to fix the apocalypse mess that God's angels had started / made, and the end of season 5 definitely fits the bill for that. Sam was pretty much fed up with God at about the same time (stated for sure in his conversation with Paul in "99 Problems.").

[SueB]

I'm hoping for a moment like he had with Cas in the kitchen in 4.02.  Where the Righteous Man lets out some righteous indignation while everyone looks at him like they are thinking of backing away from the blast zone.  Personally, I think Dean's issue is that God stays out of the fray and Dean almost ALWAYS jumps in.  I get Dean's anger but I think God would make a compelling "Free Will" argument -- that may or may not be acceptable but would be different than "doesn't give a shit". Since he kept bringing Cas back, post-Apocalypse, I have to believe God has some theory of how things need to play out but is holding back for a reason. Dean may never accept that reason but I'd like to see him get an answer out of God that at least lets Dean know God is not capricious (as in he got tired of his creations and just moved on).  

 

Then again, maybe God will show up and do that whole 'wrath' thing Joshua was talking about.  I'd be surprised though.

 

However, I totally expect God to show up this season. I expect it to be in the form of Chuck. I expect he cannot simply snap his fingers and Amara is deus ex machina'd (literally) away.  I expect Amara to be God-class in power and he's going to need his creations to stand up for their existence in order to take her away as a threat.**  That, IMO, is consistent with the values the show has demonstrated before. Consistent with 'screw destiny' and 'we're not going to just die because some God-like being decided that is how it's going to be'.  

 

But I don't expect God to provide all the answers to their questions.  He'll either not be asked (because they are busy) or he'll decline (because the show would be silly to pin down too much -- Doyleist view).   

 

**I also expect Sam and Dean to both play key but different roles and that it will piss off everyone to equal amounts as to who did what to whom and who was more valuable... because that's just how the SPNFamily rolls.   

Edited December 2, 2015 by SueB

[catrox14]

Welp. Looks like Cole is back. WHYYYY?? I can't stand him! Stop trying to make Cole happen!! I swear to Gods, if Cas is killed off and Cole is around......Fuck that.

 

 

 

Travis Aaron Wade Verified account ‏@TravisAaronWade

Good 2 B back home w family this holiday So thankful / Back 2 work Monday #spn #coletrenton #spnfamily #darln

[catrox14]

Ah, good. I wasn't imagining this. I mentioned it in my babbling earlier, but couldn't quite remember exactly when Dean said this or the exact quote, but I was pretty sure it had something to do with Dean being angry about Sam having to jump into the pit to fix the apocalypse mess that God's angels had started / made, and the end of season 5 definitely fits the bill for that. Sam was pretty much fed up with God at about the same time (stated for sure in his conversation with Paul in "99 Problems.").

 

Yeah this scene is etched in my memory because I was so excited for the set up of Dean hunting God. I mean what better way to pick up from Sam jumping in the pit, than Dean seeking vengeance on the other Dad that failed him and Sam.

 

He was talking to Cas and Cas said he was going to find God and Dean said, "Yeah, well tell him I'm coming for him too".  As much as I don't want God in the show...I will make an exception of Dean's final sacrifice to save humanity was to kill God. After all, Dean Winchester keeps his promises.

 

.....And then it was all fucking RUINED by Dean driving off to Lisa's.  Grrrr....

[7kstar]

I know I'm a small minority that liked Lisa.  His reason to go to Lisa was to keep a promise to Sam.

 

However, that said. I would love for Dean to have a come to something meeting with God, head to head and tell him just what he thinks of all of his so called plans.

 

I don't want God to fix it, just acknowledge it.  What they will do...well that's the 24 dollar question. 

 

I would like to see Dean and Sam have a win.  I also don't want Cas gone but I'm afraid for him.  I also like Jensen's remark that Dean is curious about Amara and yet also wants to do something about her.  I don't think it's a love connection but more of a force connection due to the mark.

[catrox14]

 

I know I'm a small minority that liked Lisa.  His reason to go to Lisa was to keep a promise to Sam.

 

Just to be clear, I didn't like Lisa but my issue was the complete dumping of Dean hunting to live a domestic life after a BS promise extracted by Sam. I hated it so much. And I would be saying the same thing no matter whose doorstep he arrived on at that point.

[Demented Daisy]

According to my dvr, the episode description for O Brother, Where Art Thou:

 

Amara issues a shocking challenge, unleashing her power on the local residents.  Dean tries to make sense of the hold Amara has on him.  Sam and Crowley come up with a potentially disastrous plan.

 

[Mick Lady]

So this episode with Sam's imaginary friend coming to life.....I wonder if that's actually foreshadowing that this whole part of the season is Sam's or Dean's or someone else's imagination come to life. I fully acknowledge the likelihood I am experiencing confirmation bias of my own theorizing but maybe not.

 

 

Was carefully reading this thread tonight, and saw this! Freaked me out. Wasn't there a show awhile back about a hospital, and in the end of the series the whole thing was an autistic boys dream? I can't for the life of me remember the name of that show...

[DittyDotDot]

St. Elsewhere.

[catrox14]

 

Was carefully reading this thread tonight, and saw this! Freaked me out. Wasn't there a show awhile back about a hospital, and in the end of the series the whole thing was an autistic boys dream? I can't for the life of me remember the name of that show...

B

 

St Elsewhere.

 

 

I really should finish my long ass spec and post it tomorrow before the episode airs but the  TL;DR version

 

are

 

1)  This season is a flashforward and the person in the Cage is actually Sam. And this is what he's envisioning because he's still in the Cage as a result of the The Darkness being unleashed because it changed history for the boys.

---Or he's in the Cage and this is a vision of what will happen if he doesn't get out of the Cage. I haven't quite worked it all out in my head yet

 

OR and this is what I'm actually kind of leaning towards is that

 

---Sam is actually still unconscious in the Impala from ep 1 and all of this is some kind of spell. And Dean is still unconscious in the flower fields and they are having a shared bizarro experience. I say this because there as been an unusual amount of Dean making combined names like werepire, and ghoulpire and manicorn in this upcoming episode. And yes Dean likes to do that but this seems like an unusual amount.

 

Maybe that's just paralleling that Amara is trying to merge with Dean or maybe Dean is trying to break away from being merged with Amara.  Also the plushies had heads that couldn't be removed until they died so I wonder if that's foreshadowing trying to escape from whatever is holding onto Dean.  That maybe death is the only way out of this for both Sam and Dean.

 

Maybe it's foreshadowing the boys having to join together....like with the blood in the Werther Project to fix all this. 

 

I dunno it just goes back to how I think Dean is squirrelly and there a moments when he just does not seem like himself at all and I'm not putting it to him just being freaked out. We've seen him freaked out before and about worse things.

Edited December 2, 2015 by catrox14

[SueB]

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/01/supernatural-jensen-ackles-jared-padalecki-just-my-imagination?hootPostID=4300f0e0d5e749798eaf5fecf7e1d0c1

 

kinda spoils what happens (or not) to the guest star for tomorrow night

[Mick Lady]

Ah, good. I wasn't imagining this. I mentioned it in my babbling earlier, but couldn't quite remember exactly when Dean said this or the exact quote, but I was pretty sure it had something to do with Dean being angry about Sam having to jump into the pit to fix the apocalypse mess that God's angels had started / made, and the end of season 5 definitely fits the bill for that. Sam was pretty much fed up with God at about the same time (stated for sure in his conversation with Paul in "99 Problems.").

 

At the end of Swan Song, Dean talks with Cas:

 

CASTIEL: I don't know what God wants. I don't know if he'll even return. It just... seems like the right thing to do.

DEAN: Well, if you do see him, you tell him I'm coming for him next.

CASTIEL: You're angry.

DEAN: That's an understatement.

[SueB]

Welp. Looks like Cole is back. WHYYYY?? I can't stand him! Stop trying to make Cole happen!! I swear to Gods, if Cas is killed off and Cole is around......Fuck that.

I am supremely confident Cas won't die. 

 

Cole, OTOH, can get killed off.  Poor guy.  It's not TAW fault, per se, but I just don't care for the character like I'm supposed to.  I know... ME... Madame Optimism.  

Sorry for the negativity.

 

I AM surprised he let his appearance out on twitter.  Perhaps someone got BTS intel and that's why.  

[catrox14]

I am supremely confident Cas won't die. 

 

Cole, OTOH, can get killed off.  Poor guy.  It's not TAW fault, per se, but I just don't care for the character like I'm supposed to.  I know... ME... Madame Optimism.  

Sorry for the negativity.

 

I AM surprised he let his appearance out on twitter.  Perhaps someone got BTS intel and that's why.  

 

I swear to gods if he calls Sam "Sammy" and Dean "Deano" without one of them telling him to shut up....I wanted Dean to shoot him in the head in his last appearance. He tortured Sam to get to Dean and the boys just let that go without even clocking him in the nose for their troubles???  Naw....man/

 

I don't think Travis is a very good actor personally.

 

Yeah, I'm surprised he put that out on Twitter.  I dunno maybe its strategic to get us thinking about Cole vs what other secret things they have happening maybe? Bleh. :(.

[Mick Lady]

I got a Bert and Ernie thing. Honest to Gods, I wonder if they will pose as a couple for this case...which I'm gonna laugh my ass off if they do.  Not saying that will happen but shit that would make me laugh and would harken back to Bugs when they allowed people to think they were a couple or at least didn't bother to disabuse them of that notion.  

 

From a few pages back, but then I read this from EW:

 

Ackles adds: “ ‘Just My Imagination’ is really fun. I felt like I was on a sketch comedy show doing the show. One week I’m having a fight with two people inside the backseat of a car, and the next week I’m killing ghosts or saving somebody from pending death, and then the next week I’m in a room with an imaginary guy who’s dressed up like Bert and Ernie and we’re just riffing and having these awesome funny dialogue scenes.”

 

You two are connected somehow!

[rue721]

1. if Amara and God are siblings, then who are their parents? do they have cousins?!

 

I don't really understand how a monotheistic God could have parents and siblings, anyway? It seems like the show has been basing its religious world on the Old Testament, but doesn't this Amara-and-God-are-siblings kind of family structure imply some kind of pantheism? Like with the gods of Mt. Olympus or something?

 

2. if Amara and Dean get together, does that mean God is basically Dean's brother-in-law?

 

Sorry, I guess with the holidays coming on, I'm preoccupied with the idea of awkward family gatherings. :P

 

Anyway, I 100% DO NOT WANT God to show up. It just seems so corny and ridiculous to me. But YMMV.

 

If the being who created the known universe does show up, however, and Dean's response is to scold him, I will be irritated. Dean could not possibly be that boring, could he? You'd think that just about anyone would be more interested in picking God's brain and learning whatever he could from the experience, instead of wasting his time venting.

[AwesomO4000]

1. if Amara and God are siblings, then who are their parents? do they have cousins?!

 

I don't really understand how a monotheistic God could have parents and siblings, anyway? It seems like the show has been basing its religious world on the Old Testament...

 

But the show also includes other gods as well - lots of them, so it seems like it follows Old Testament stuff... plus other religions as well.

 

If the being who created the known universe does show up, however, and Dean's response is to scold him, I will be irritated. Dean could not possibly be that boring, could he? You'd think that just about anyone would be more interested in picking God's brain and learning whatever he could from the experience, instead of wasting his time venting.

 

Maybe he could do both?...Maybe at the same time? Potentially a properly delivered "I just gotta ask you... why?" might cover both bases. If anyone could pull it off it would be Dean / Jensen.

[catrox14]

I do think Dean's relationship with God or lack thereof is an interesting part of Dean's characterization.  He pretty much laid out his beef with God back in s4 when he asked why God wasn't down on Earth and allowed all the poor bastards on Earth to suffer.  And then of course the vow to go after God from s5.  I do wonder if Sam decides to pursue the visions and tries to go after the Cage,  if Dean might actually decide to go after God, and maybe ask Amara for help?.... Hmmm.....

[rue721]

Dean seems like he's kind of frustrated with God, but who isn't.

 

If he's got a ~connection~ with God's sister, though, maybe he'll have to learn to be friendlier? I don't really understand God's beef with Amara, but maybe they'll reconcile, and then God and the Winchesters will kind of have to play nice.

[catrox14]

I sure do want some info on Death and Billie the Reaper at this point. I mean Dean might start to get reckless and if he's not aware Heaven and Hell won't be an option for him or Sam that's kind of important. It might change his choices if he thinks The Empty is their fate. I don't get why we haven't gotten any verification of what Dean knows or not to this point. That's kind of a big plot point the show needs to address. 

[Myrelle]

IIRC, Jensen said in an interview that he has a scene with Billie the Reaper coming up-which made me wonder if Dean will then learn about The Empty; and wonder further if Dean might be close to death/the crossing over point-as Sam was in ep.2 when he encountered her. It used to be that only those close to death could see Reapers, but that was before the canon-destroying duo gave us rogue reapers. Billie did not seem like one of those in her first appearance, though. So...maybe Cas going after Amara results in the near death experience for Dean, especially if Dean tries to protect one or the other of them? I also recall MC saying in an interview that Cas going after The Darkness results in something very, very bad happening...

[Demented Daisy]

TVLine interview w/Richard Speight, Jr.

“It’s got a lot of the fun, quirky, untraditional comedic elements that Supernatural sometimes gets into,” Speight, Jr. says. “We definitely have some fun characters coming back and bringing a different kind of quirky energy to the show.”

 

As for whether Speight, Jr. – who honed his craft by helming the short film America 101 as well as enrolling in the Warner Bros. Television Directors’ Workshop – will ever grace the CW drama again on screen, “That’s the question, isn’t it?” the actor replies. “The people who watch the show religiously know that Gabriel’s back. When he reappeared to Castiel [in Season 9’s ‘Meta Fiction’], he made that clear. So he’s somewhere, doing something, watching this whole Darkness thing play out. And I, like everybody else, look forward to seeing how and when he decides…what he’s going to do about it.”

 

Ho-lee Chuck.  

[DittyDotDot]

Wait, is Speight playing with us? Gabriel in Meta Fiction was of a creation of not-so-marvy-Marv's and not actually Gabriel. That's not to say Gabriel isn't out there somewhere, doing something and such, just that it wasn't actually Gabriel who appeared to Cass in S9. I'm seriously thinking this whole "Gabriel's back" noise may turn out to be a big old fake-out in the end. I mean, until now, I was pretty sure we would see Gabriel tonight...now I'm not so sure.

[Demented Daisy]

Normally, that would be my first thought, too.  But he has to know how much people want Gabriel back.  If he's pulling our legs, he's pulling awfully hard, and not in a playful way.

 

Are we sure that Gabriel was a creation of Metatron?  I thought they left the episode deliberately vague so that they could bring Gabriel back at some future point.

[Omegamom]

I sort of got the impression at the end of that episode that it was Gabriel, but under a compulsion from Metatron--who was, essentially, God at that point, and a meddling God at that, to fit the story.

[DittyDotDot]

I understood it that Gabriel was a fake of Marvatron's making in that episode, but it didn't mean that Gabriel wasn't actually in "witness protection" somewhere out there. But, that was just my interpretation of it all.

[Demented Daisy]

I just reread the transcript for Meta Fiction and it's ill-defined.  Castiel and Gabriel's interaction was created by Metatron, but did he create Gabriel or use him?  Neither Gabriel nor Metatron ever says with any certainty:

CASTIEL
So, none of this is real, and I'm guessing I'm no longer in the motel.

 

GABRIEL
Here's the thing... none of it was real, but all of it was true.

 

CASTIEL
Whose truth...yours or Metatron's?

 

GABRIEL
Just hear him out, would you? He's just trying to help you.

 

CASTIEL [not believing a word of it]
Really? How?

 

GABRIEL
Sorry... didn't read the whole script, just, uh, skimmed for my parts. Well, it's good to see you, old bean.

[GABRIEL goes to snap his fingers but CASTIEL stops him]

 

CASTIEL
Wait. Are you dead?

 

[GABRIEL smirks and snaps his fingers. Everything disappears and CASTIEL is gagged and tied to a chair in METATRON's study. METATRON is still typing. He looks up and takes his glasses off smiling at CASTIEL.]

 

CASTIEL
I am not a leader, Metatron.

 

METATRON
Apparently. So... I did my homework.
[He picks up one of the books from the desk. It is Tall Tales by Carver Edlund.]
"The Winchester Gospels." Pulpy stuff.
[He throws the book into the fire in the fireplace]
Gave me an idea, though. You needed to be taught a lesson, and nobody teaches lessons better than good old Gabriel, a.k.a. The Trickster. So... I started typing.

 

 

After that, they don't mention Gabriel again.  We do know that Metatron and Gadreel used the Horn of Gabriel to lure angels, which might have included Gabriel.  I think an argument can be made for either side.

[catrox14]

That seems like a really big thing for Speight to spoil in an interview. Hmmm...

 

Maybe we see Gabriel/Trickster in a flashback/vision type scenario like we saw young!John in Baby, but I would be very surprised if he is still alive in the present of s11.  

 

That said, if things are not what they seem in what I've been calling bizarro!SPN s11, maybe Gabriel is the one sending Sam the visions to teach him another lesson for some reason like another Mystery Spot thing, but instead of killing Dean over and over he's getting Sam's attention via visions of the cage.

[Omegamom]

Carver's preview for tonight's episode:

https://amp.twimg.com/v/25131be2-197f-4766-8fac-5953da38862c

[Demented Daisy]

Description to go with the video:

 

Supernatural ‏@cw_spn  2h2 hours ago
The Winchesters will never be the same after tonight's NEW #Supernatural at 9/8c!

 

 

Ay yi yi.  So.  Much.  Hyperbole.  I hope.

[Demented Daisy]

I was just thinking of the description of O Brother, Where Art Thou.  I've been thinking the title would refer to Dean looking for Sam after Sam goes to free Lucifer from the cage (or whatever).  But:

 

Amara issues a shocking challenge, unleashing her power on the local residents.  Dean tries to make sense of the hold Amara has on him.  Sam and Crowley come up with a potentially disastrous plan.

 

 

What if the title is referring to Amara and God and she's calling Him out?

 

Also, I can't remember if I actually speculated that Sam's imaginary friend was Gabriel in disguise, or if I just thought it.  :-(

Edited December 2, 2015 by Demented Daisy

[SueB]

It was the:

 

GABRIEL

"Sorry... didn't read the whole script, just, uh, skimmed for my parts. Well, it's good to see you, old bean."

 

That made me think Gabriel was just playing along per Metatron's instructions.  That and the "I didn't really watch Downton Abbey."  Perhaps Metatron had found him and agreed to let him stay in Heaven or be left in 'witness protection'. 

 

I'm really looking forward to tonight's episode.  I don't believe Gabriel will show.  I think he might in the future but not in the first half of the season.

 

Carver preview:

- Weechester Sam!  Yay.  I'm looking forward to that.  Also, the look on Dean's face when Sam says the imaginary friend disappears after the child no longer needs them.  Dean looked someone ...IDK.. stunned... that Sam NEEDED an imaginary friend.  To me that's consistent.  Dean adores Sam but he never really fully appreciated Sam's issues with being an oddball (in Sam's mind).  It's not that Dean didn't know "the life" was rough, it's just that he thought Sam was normal (I suspect). 

- I'm glad that there's lore to back this up.

- Speight better be showing us some leg under Dean's dead man's robe or they'll be hell to pay at the next convention.  Just sayin' .... he KNOWS.  

- Also... if it's not clear we are headed to the cage, I don't know what more Carver could do.  He's practically got the charts with arrows in there.  

Edited December 2, 2015 by SueB

[catrox14]

I'm calling shenanigans. 

 

Why the fuck would the show make Sam think he needs to face his greatest fear when he nearly lost his mind the last time he had to deal with it?

 

I think it's a misdirect. I think this is going to wind up being about Dean and Sam facing their greatest fears which is the death of the other one.

[SueB]

Hmmm... after the Carver preview I tweeted Jenny Klein to find out if my 6 oz of whiskey would be enough or did I need to run to the liquor store due to #SamFeels.  She advised I need to stock up.  

 

The good news is that I subsequently found some Kentucky moonshine in the cabinet.  It's some weird shit with a berry flavor.  I'm going to use that too....

 

Bottom line: "Bittersweet" is codeword for Feels.  Since I can, in fact, generate Sam Feels... I am preparing.  

Edited December 2, 2015 by SueB

[SueB]

Variety:

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/supernatural-richard-speight-directing-just-my-imagination-1201652010/

 

They've really done a lot of press for this one.  I hope it pays off.

[SueB]

I'm going to keep my preview talk in here unless told otherwise. Because I want to add in any bits of spoiler data that are relevant.

So first thing, it sure looks like BOTH Sam and Dean are standing with Crowley when Crowley says "there may be a way".  So how does Sam go behind Dean's back and work with Crowley?  Does Dean reject the plan and then Sam and Crowley do it anyway?  Dean seems to be comfortably floating down DaNile lately.  And with good reason.

 

Important tidbit - I think Crowley is riding in a black Lincoln Continental. He should have gone Rolls Royce but maybe his Dean kink makes him stick with American.

 

So clearly Mark P. is in this, but where's Micheal??  And with the bits that Mark P's time on that other show is limited, I sure hope we get more Lucifer.

 

I don't think that God makes the burning bush. I think that is either Luci or Crowley nudging Sam along.  I could be wrong.  It's a little on-the-nose.

 

Where is CAS?  I'm pretty sure he's in this episode based on BTS stuff ... but where the hell is he in the preview???? 

[Demented Daisy]

As a friend asked me a few days ago, why would Lucifer have that meat suit in the cage?  Sam can't be literally going to the cage, right?  It has to be in his mind (which, as every Dumbledore fan knows, doesn't mean it's not real).

 

I have no idea what's going to happen in next week's episode.  It's either going to be incredibly awesome or incredibly annoying.  I want the former, but anticipate the latter.  I'm tired of getting my hopes up.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Demented Daisy

[catrox14]

Godsdammit. That preview. I fucking KNEW Amara was going to kiss Dean. ARGGHHH.

 

Guys, I'm really worried about Cas.....I think he's going to die. :(.  There was no mention of Cas at all in this episode and he's not in the preview. Are there any reports of him filming past 11.09?

 

 

Edited December 3, 2015 by catrox14

[SueB]

He's definitely in 11.10.  

 

And I really think Dean kissing Amara was during EP1 and we are getting a flashback.  

[catrox14]

 

And I really think Dean kissing Amara was during EP1 and we are getting a flashback.

 

It really doesn't matter to me because we know that Dean held her in his arms as an infant and saw her as child and teenager in like a friggin month if that.  Nah, man, that's what makes it more awful for me.

[SueB]

It really doesn't matter to me because we know that Dean held her in his arms as an infant and saw her as child and teenager in like a friggin month if that.  Nah, man, that's what makes it more awful for me.

True but IF it's a kiss the first time they met Dean only new adult Amara.  The baby connection hadn't been made.  It's less pervy that way, I think.  

 

Or maybe I don't understand what part is bothering you... like if Amara had NEVER been made into a human-ish child then I presume if you had issues it would something else.  So... is the issue that WE are seeing the kiss knowing that after he kissed her, she turned into an infant and the visual is just a mess for you?  Or is it that you think Dean should have had more of a gag reaction when he found out she turned into a child? Or... what?

Now, you being squicked is totally your business and I realize it sounds as if I'm saying that you shouldn't be squicked.   That's not what I'm trying to say.  I'm trying to figure out if you are mad at Dean somehow for his actions or if you are mad that they turned Amara into an infant and let us watch her grow up.

 

All of this, of course, presumes the kiss is EP1.  If it's an EP9 kiss then I get the squick in a more straightforward fashion.

[AwesomO4000]

As a friend asked me a few days ago, why would Lucifer have that meat suit in the cage?  Sam can't be literally going to the cage, right?  It has to be in his mind (which, as every Dumbledore fan knows, doesn't mean it's not real).

 

I think they sort of explained this away in "Dark Side of the Moon" when Zachariah said that Sam and Dean were seeing him as his meatsuit because their brains were limited and couldn't comprehend his real form. I'm also thinking that Sam previously either always or usually saw Lucifer as Nick in the cage - that's how he most often saw him when he was Hallucifer, too - because that's how he first saw Lucifer and so maybe that's what his brain defaults to. I'm guessing that was also Lucifer's favorite form to torment Sam with.

[catrox14]

I'm not mad at Dean. Never was. That's never been my issue.

 

I'm mad at the writers for the  whole Dean/Amara SL from the get go, no matter how I slice it.  let me count the ways I fucking hate it.

 

1) I don't like the stupid trope of a femme fatale being the thing that takes Dean down because it's the whole "Oh look it's a hot woman so OF COURSE DEAN THE HORNDOG will look at her" Bleh. Boring and stupid. And Dean is smarter than that.

 

2) They framed everything with Dean and Amara around the UST in 11.01 and now apparently confirming it with the kiss that we thought was being hinted at in 11.01. Between those moments Dean only knows her as an infant, a child and a 15 year old. She was being treated as a child by Crowley. So yep for me, that's just a big nope now.

 

3) Dean doesn't seem to have any agency yet his lack of agency about Amara has not done anything to progress HIS SL. He's basically Amara's Blunt Little Instrument and lying to Sam and Cas either intentionally or unintentionally. It's time to stop with the mystery of what he's in control of and what he's not. They need to give us a bit more because right now that's just crap storytelling not mystery building IMO

[SueB]

Got it. Fair. We need to hear Dean vocalize his WTF-ness confusion.

[rue721]

Hmmm... after the Carver preview I tweeted Jenny Klein to find out if my 6 oz of whiskey would be enough or did I need to run to the liquor store due to #SamFeels.  She advised I need to stock up.  

 

The good news is that I subsequently found some Kentucky moonshine in the cabinet.  It's some weird shit with a berry flavor.  I'm going to use that too....

 

Wait, wait. I need to hear more about this berry-flavored Kentucky moonshine. Why do you have it? How did you prepare/drink it? How did it taste with your whiskey? Were there so many #SamFeels that you're in for a nasty hangover tomorrow, or did you not even have to crack open the moonshine after all?

[catrox14]

So. yeah...I don't think this is a flashback. Dean doesn't seem to be wearing the coat from the flashback, it looks like like a suit coat and a white shirt under her fingers by his collar. It's daylight and there is some kind of tower in the background. It's not the Vortex...

 

And I swear to gods.....I'm suddenly terrified this is a wedding. Talk me off that ledge people. Talk me off right now.

 

 

[SueB]

You're right. He's in a suit. Thanks for the picture.

Dream?

[Demented Daisy]

Promos -- with Castiel and Rowena.  I've missed them.

 

http://www.spoilertv.com/2015/12/supernatural-episode-1109-o-brother.html

Wait....  I watched 4 or 5 more times and that's not Castiel after all.  Definitely angels, but not Cas.  :-(