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SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
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Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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catrox14

catrox14

I've thought Lucifer was kind of a father because he made demons out of humans and created the Knights of Hell but I get your point as well.  It would be sad if Mary was sending him torture visions, but maybe she's resorting to something desperate to get his attention?

 

Also, another tidbit from the boys about a fight between 4 characters coming up that we already know. Jensen said it's accompanied by, in his opinion, one of the top 5 music cues in the history of the show.  If it's in "O Brother Where Art Thou" , please please please let be "Man of Constant Sorrow"....maybe sung by Jensen himself? I can see him singing that song. 

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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Mick Lady

Mick Lady

I agree with SueB a few posts back. I think Sam and Crowley are banding together to get to the cage. Crowley is The King Of Hell right? And where is the cage? In Hell. Crowley must be it's guard.

 

I'm back to my original theory that Lucifer is the answer to The Darkness. The whole "Bearer of light" thing is just too telling. I just hope they don't have to release him! Dean and Cas of course will try to stop them, and we're back to the whole "it's too dangerous" argument between The Boys. I have no idea how Rowena ties in, maybe with a spell to help them bind Lucifer? Everyone wants The Darkness gone, don't they?

 

At any rate, someone is going to die.

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Triskan

Triskan

(edited)

Who could die, really, in the end, what relevant character could bite the dust ?

 

Trying to make a list (not including Sam and Dean for obvious reasons) : 

 

Cas / Crowley : Naaah, I'd be truly surprised if one of them died. Cas is so infused in the mythology of the show, almost as much as the brothers, to die (even though he didnt do much this season so far). As for Crowley, his death could potentially set up hell in Hell, but I think the show would lose too much in getting rid of him.

 

Rowena : Possibly. I know the character received quite the backlash from fans (even though I always loved her performance) and it could have influenced the writers, but again, I think the show would lose by killing her off. The character is still "new" and we havent explored her full potential yet.

 

Lucifer / Michael / Gabriel / Adam : Nah, I dont think so, if any of them returns, it wont be to kill them straight off... although, this is Supernatural... Adam could die as soon as he steps out of the Cage, Michael could commit some final sacrifice as soon as he's able to... so who knows, but I think the most likely to die is...

 

Metatron : It would be a sad and efficient ending to kill the Scribe of God at his lowest. Despite translating the tablets (which Kevin!ghost could do), I think, of all the relevant characters, he's the one who has the least to offer the plot. I'd be truly sad to see him go, as I've always loved that cynical asshole, but yeah, my two cents on him.

Edited by Triskan
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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Oh....death pool spec is sad fun.

 

Cas - (NOOOO!!!) I think it's entirely possible for Cas to die a real most sincere true death because now that  he has his angel powers back he's the ace in the hole for everything again. That's why they power him down all the time.

 

Killing Cas 

 

--removes the ace in the hole unless they find some other reason to get him off the chessboard but that seems unlikely because Heaven hates Cas and he has no place with angels anymore.

 

--I'm not so sure he's even on TFW that much other than research. Apparently the scene wherein Cas and Dean discuss their relationship was cut from Our Little World, so based on what was on screen it focused on the tension between them over Amara and Metatron both still being alive, so I'm not so sure that they are still on the best of terms. 

 

--IMO Cas is the only other character not named Sam that would propel Dean's story the furthest.

 

Jensen said Sam's welfare is what snapped Dean from Amara's thrall in Our Little World.  He said something else happens that snaps him back in the future and I could see that being Cas in real mortal danger or even his death. It would send Dean on a possible collision course with Sam if for some reason Cas' death is a result of misbegotten alliance between Sam and Crowley. 

 

--Crowley could die but I think it's highly unlikely because Carver, IMO, worships the ground Mark Sheppard/Crowley walks on. He's said before that he loves Crowley and loves writing for Crowley. He gives Crowley pretty much all the best lines and big monologues.

 

I think he views Curtis and Metatron the same way. But Metatron is NOT beloved like Crowley and not even loved to be hated by fans. I think he's just hated by and large and viewers would not be unhappy for Metatron to die. I think Carver would find it amusing for Crowley to actually be the last character alive on the show.  I'm quite serious about that.

 

--Rowena could be a good bet for death BUT I think they are trying to be less killing of female characters but who knows.

 

--Amara won't die in the mid-season finale. It's too soon.

Edited by catrox14
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Mick Lady

Mick Lady

I think Carver would find it amusing for Crowley to actually be the last character alive on the show.  I'm quite serious about that.

 

 

God catrox! I've been thinking the same thing! I didn't want to voice it, but you started it. But not this year. I think Rowena is going, and at Lucifer's hand.

 

I'm still working on how, but I have a week to figure it out, and I don't care what Mick thinks! He believes Cas is the one, but I can't get behind that.

 

Besides, if Cas dies, he'll be back in a week or two....

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

I'm wondering if everyone lives this time? I mean, some random red shirts will most definitely die--they die every week--but I wonder if they're building for a big fake-out and won't kill off any regular characters this time?

 

But, if death is imminent for anyone, my thoughts are it will be Cass. I don't think he'll stay dead, though, probably will only be mostly dead all season and pop up for the big finale.

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

Well, if the common spec is true (God will show up at some point), I would expect Him to bring back a whole bunch o' gone-but-not-forgotten characters.

 

At the same time, though, I would not be surprised if Misha knows that Cas dies and doesn't expect him to come back this time.  

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

So this episode with Sam's imaginary friend coming to life.....I wonder if that's actually foreshadowing that this whole part of the season is Sam's or Dean's or someone else's imagination come to life. I fully acknowledge the likelihood I am experiencing confirmation bias of my own theorizing but maybe not.

 

I'm rewatching the first 7 episodes and really paying a lot more attention to the visuals, cinematography and use of sound design. And I'm seeing things that I don't know if it's my own confirmation bias at work or if what I'm seeing is really part of the storytelling and is giving us clues that things are not what we may think.  Or is it just MY OWN IMAGINATION??

 

I know I'm beating that not yet dead horse, but when I notice that Sam looks a lot taller than than Dean now, I can't believe the cinematographers are NOT doing that on purpose. They have spent 10 seasons making sure the height difference whilst noticeable is not overwhelmingly so and making sure they can be in the same frame without it look too weird.

 

I swear this show makes me think about things I NEVER would have thought about before.  Sigh. I'm doomed

Edited by catrox14
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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/11/20/spoiler-room-once-upon-time-blacklist-greys-anatomy-spoilers

 

I’m worried that Dean keeping his connection with the Darkness from Sam is going to cause a rift with the brothers on Supernatural. Help! — Dana
Yes, Dean is hiding something from his brother, but just keep in mind that the evil they’re fighting is much bigger than any secret. “It’s such a massive big bad that they’ve let loose that a lot of what’s going on this season [is] the brothers side-by-side working in parallel righting this wrong,” Jared Padalecki says. “We’re doing some cool stuff this season where the brothers [are] even starting to right past wrongs with each other. They’re starting to remind each other that they care about each other, that they’re there for each other and sorry about what happened.” I think it’s safe to say that the Winchester bond is safe for now.

 


*snort*  Yeah, okay, whatever.  I'll believe it when I see it.

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catrox14

catrox14

Mmmm hmmm. Okay Jared. Sorry but unless this Biggest Bad of all The Bads starts doing really bad things or it's revealed she's been doing bad things all along the way I'm calling shenanigans on Jared's comments. I f they are righting past wrongs between the brothers...I'm wondering when that is going to start happening.  Because so far I haven't really seen anything like that. Maybe it happens in the mid season finale.

 

Jensen is saying kind of the opposite. He says Sam is going to go off  and his own thing and work with frakking Crowley...so I'm not quite sure how that is the brothers being cohesive. so maybe Jared is saying that Sam is doing something Sam thinks  benefits both brothers which would be kind of in Sam's wheelhouse of behavior. 

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catrox14

catrox14

Supernatural ‏@cw_spn 26m26 minutes ago

Sam and Dean's world comes crashing down in ONE WEEK when #Supernatural returns at 9/8c!

 

 Well...this ^^^^ doesn't sound worrisome at all.....meep. Assuming that tweet is not just hyperbolic PR.....and IF the Trickster ends up being in this episode, I wonder if this is going to be a Mystery Spot/Changing Channels redux where they are being tested.  I will say, if this IS Trickster/Gabriel episode, I'm expecting to laugh and then have my soul ripped out of me.  So I'm actually looking more forward to the episode than I was before.  I may have issues.

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7kstar

7kstar

(edited)

Jared's responses being different from Jensen is simply how they work.  Jared reads ahead and Jensen focuses on ep at a time.  Jensen confirmed this is a way they are different in working on scripts.

 

I always thought that Crowley & Sam will unite...Crowley now knows he can't control the little girl, so the fuel for him working with Sam is pretty easy to fix up.  Especially if Lucifer is asking for Sam's presence.

 

I think Cas could be the one that is killed off.  Not sure that Carver loves Cas so much.  His story-lines have been weak for far too long.  With his love of killing characters, Cas is the one that fits the Kevin & Charlie spot.

 

Rowena wouldn't mean anything to the boys if she died right now, so I doubt she is on the table.  Metatron - everyone wants him gone, so he's safe for now.

 

Crowley death seems unlikely too and again it wouldn't do anything to the boys but especially Dean.

 

Carver has done some really strange stuff with Cas & Dean.  My problem is I'm so tired of deaths for no real reason other than "oh we need the fans to get upset, who can we kill off?" 

 

I would love to see Mary come back, but I'm also afraid that they will handle it so badly so perhaps it's best if she doesn't come back. 

 

I guess the real question is which brother is up for the sacrifice killing?  Isn't it Sam's turn? 9 ended with Dean.  10 ended with Death...so I guess it's Sam...yawn  :)

 

ETA:  why do you always find stuff after you post?  Can't and can do change the meaning of a sentence.  Hopefully I caught it all now.  ;)

Edited by 7kstar
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SueB

SueB

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Monster interview from IGN with J2 just prior to Thanksgiving. Some interesting bits:

http://m.ign.com/videos/2015/11/30/supernatural-jared-padalecki-jensen-ackles-on-the-darkness-the-cage-and-pondering-an-ending

 

Bits I picked up on:

- Curiosity more than affection (although I'm 100% certain Jensen doesn't know much more than we do)

- 3 guest start returnees for the episode they were filming at the time of the interview

- Frenemy status of Crowley

- Dean is not anti-God, just not counting on him

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Myrelle

Myrelle

(edited)

Thanks for the link to the most recent interview.

At this point and IMO, God would be the biggest cop-out as a solution that this show has ever given us. As far as Dean getting a verbal beatdown from the SPNGod before he'd accept his help, I'd hope for Dean to tell him to stuff his help where the sun don't shine before I'd want to see yet another character on this show treat Dean as if he wasn't just being pragmatic and realistic-epsecially considering that the All-Wonderful, All-Seeing and All-Knowing SPNGod is likely only showing up now because it's his own keister that's on the line, along with humanity's. That's more of something that I'd like to see if the plan IS to show us God in a human form-which I'm still hoping is NOT in the writers' minds.

Edited by Myrelle
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Omegamom

Omegamom

Myrelle--I think the idea was that Dean would be giving God a beatdown for all the times it has left them in the lurch...

But I do agree that God solving the problem would be the biggest letdown. A real Deus ex machina!

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Myrelle

Myrelle

(edited)

Ah. Sorry if that was the case. Dean being on the receiving end of any more verbal beatdowns is a real button and sore spot for me, at this point. I am so over them.

I did like that in the interview, it WAS pointed out that Dean is not Anti-God, just not depending on his help-again a very pragmatic and realistic viewpoint that fits with the character-and with good reason.

I also liked how balanced the questions were between the two main characters' storylines in that interview. And he covered Crowley and Cas too. Nice job by the interviewer there.

Edited by Myrelle
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catrox14

catrox14

I think Dean would eventually accept God's assistance.  After a verbal beat down, of course.  That's something I want to see.  

 

Wait, do you mean Dean's gets a verbal beatdown from God or God gets a verbal beatdown from Dean, because I would be 100% on board with  the latter. 

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

Sorry if I'm being presumptuous...

 

I think Demented Daisy meant Dean giving God a verbal beat down before accepting his help... not the other way around... or what Omegamom said while I was blathering on here below...

 

As for Dean having an anti-God stance, I believe he did briefly at one point. I think maybe it was around the time Sam had either gone into the hole, or Dean knew that that was where this was going, that Dean said something about God being next on his (s)hit list. After asking God for some help with legitimate reason and being turned down, I didn't blame him... Unfortunately I couldn't find the quote for some reason, but I don't think that I imagined it or remembered it wrong. (I think he said it to Castiel or Death?). Dean telling God off would be a nice callback / continuity thing with that.

 

But I do agree that it is more a pragmatic thing at this point... although it couldn't hurt either as long as Sam still has faith in them (Sam and Dean) too. I think Dean's stance here is sort of the Sam argument from "Point of No Return" in that he thinks that he and Sam can do it together.

 

However, Sam, himself, must be pretty desperate to try asking God for help right now since he was pretty much in the "yeah, I do believe there's a God, but I think he's pretty much a jerk." camp since at least mid season 5, I think, and I suspect even earlier. (My head canon is that Sam lost most of his faith in God around the time he buried Dean at the end of season 3.) After yet another screw up on Sam's part  with the Darkness (thanks a lot, Carver), I can kind of see why Sam would be losing faith in himself though. The guy hasn't really gotten a break in the "did something right" department in about 3 seasons at least now... maybe longer.

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

(edited)

Yes, of course I meant I wanted to see Dean give God a verbal beatdown.  It would be completely in character for him to do so.  Then accept God's help.  Why on earth would I want God to give Dean a verbal beatdown?  What would be the justification?  The idea baffles me.

 

Meanwhile, in the Batcave, Entertainment Weekly would like us to know that "There will be some BIG returns on the show this week, Supernatural fans!"  (According to their FB page.)

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/01/supernatural-jensen-ackles-jared-padalecki-just-my-imagination

 

Honestly, I think I'd be more shocked if Gabriel didn't appear this week.

 

ETA  I'm one of the few that wants God to show up.  It would only be a deus ex machina if, IMO, He solved the problem.  If He stepped in and fixed everything.  If He's there for the assist, like he did before, then I'm cool with that.  Considering God needed the help of His archangels last time to lock the Darkness away, I'd be pretty annoyed if a ragtag bunch of humans, an angel, a demon, and a witch did it this time.  *shrug*

Edited by Demented Daisy
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SueB

SueB

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I'll mail a bottle of Johnny Walker Blue Label to the writer who has Dean punching God (who must be wearing the Chuck suit for me to be completely delighted). Hmmmm... I'm going to post that on Twitter....

 


I think he's talking about Jodi, the vampire girl and maybe Claire.  That's the episode I think they were filming before Thanksgiving and was finishing up before the interview. 
 
I might be reading into something but when the guy asked about Cas...I thought both Jensen and Jared seemed mighty uncomfortable. I mean it was a weird...like quietness about that answer. Rather subdued. /worried for Cas :(

 

That tracks with Kathryn helping out with the gif tweet.  

 

Vampire girl is Alex (at least that's the name Jody called her in Hibbing 911 so I'm presuming that's the handle she's using these days).

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catrox14

catrox14

 

Why on earth would I want God to give Dean a verbal beatdown?  What would be the justification?  The idea baffles me.

 

I thought your comment could have been read either way hence my question. I wasn't making any assumption either way so that's why I asked.  I don't know what everyone thinks about Dean's relationship with God. So I just was looking for clarity. Nothing more, nothing less.

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catrox14

catrox14

I don't want God to show up for all the reasons. I don't believe Chuck is God so I don't want God to ever be realized on Earth as a meat suit.  I'm not terribly enamored of the idea that the Darkness is God's sister and that God's sister is in Amara's meatsuit either.

 

Bleh.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

I'm confused why anyone would think I would want to see God verbally abuse Dean.  I thought it was fairly obvious that I'm particularly fond of Dean.  I've certainly said so on multiple occasions.

 

I would rather ask than assume.  I asked a clarifying question. Fair enough? Why is this being turned into something I never made it about? I'm not coming at anyone about what they think or feel about a character. That's not how I roll.

Edited by catrox14
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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

IMO, God would only be a dues ex machina if he came in and snapped his fingers. Perhaps he won't want to help lock his sister back up? Maybe he'll tell them it's their mess and they can figure out how to clean it up? Maybe, he doesn't have any answers to give them? Who knows, but I don't think God showing up is an automatic dues ex machina.

 

Personally, I'd love Dean to get the chance to tell God a few things.

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catrox14

catrox14

IMO, God would only be a dues ex machina if he came in and snapped his fingers. Perhaps he won't want to help lock his sister back up? Maybe he'll tell them it's their mess and they can figure out how to clean it up? Maybe, he doesn't have any answers to give them? Who knows, but I don't think God showing up is an automatic dues ex machina.

 

Personally, I'd love Dean to get the chance to tell God a few things.

 

If God is omniscient and knows a human's heart, God already knows what Dean thinks and feels about him, I would imagine. But see that's where the whole God thing being an actual character vs being a character that's merely talked about becomes problematic. 

 

I read a theory on Tumblr that God is actually already on Earth and is Cas' pimp mobile. I laughed quite a bit, I'll see if I can find it again.

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

Personally, I've never thought God in this universe was omniscient. He's powerful, for sure, but this whole free will thing kinda puts a wrinkle in the "all-knowing" thing. But, that's probably a discussion for another thread.

 

I'm pretty sure God does indeed know what Dean thinks of him. However, IMO, Dean getting a chance to tell God what he thought really isn't for God's benefit, but Dean's. Sometimes it's just really nice to get a chance to get something off your chest.

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

If I don't quote anyone, I'm talking to the group as a whole.  If I want to address a certain person, I will quote said person.  Maybe that will clear up a few misunderstandings.

 

 

Personally, I've never thought God in this universe was omniscient. He's powerful, for sure, but this whole free will thing kinda puts a wrinkle in the "all-knowing" thing. But, that's probably a discussion for another thread.

 

I'm pretty sure God does indeed know what Dean thinks of him. However, IMO, Dean getting a chance to tell God what he thought really isn't for God's benefit, but Dean's. Sometimes it's just really nice to get a chance to get something off your chest.

 

 

I agree wholeheartedly.  I don't know about the omniscient thing (He knew the apocalypse was nigh, for example), but knowing about something doesn't mean you have to do anything about it.  If He's fully committed to the idea of free will, maybe He feels like he can't do much for humanity, regardless of how much He knows.  *shrug*  With this show, anything is possible.

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SueB

SueB

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 If He's fully committed to the idea of free will, maybe He feels like he can't do much for humanity, regardless of how much He knows.  *shrug*  With this show, anything is possible.

 

THIS.  I'll bet money that this is the thesis.  

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catrox14

catrox14

Dean said that he doesn't believe God believes in humanity anymore back in Paint it Black. So if God is omniscient and is all about 'free will' etc, then God knows that Dean believes God doesn't believe in humanity.

 

To me, I don't even know if Dean did yell at God that it would change anything for Dean. He can shout at the sky or Cas' pimp mobile or Chuck but it doesn't change IMO that God wasn't there for Dean when Dean prayed to him, from Dean's perspective IMO. 

 

I think Dean is just like "fuck this". God doesn't care about us.. I think having Amara influencing him in some way probably adds to his pre-existing disappointment with God. IMO, Dean sees God as just the same old, dead beat Dad as he was back in s5.

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

Look, I'm not suggesting that Dean's opinions of God are some well-kept secret that will shock anyone or will change Dean's life forever if he gets to say them. I'm just saying, sometimes it's cathartic to get to tell someone off. It doesn't have to change anything in the universe or even change the other person or yourself; sometimes it just makes you feel better to get to say things to the person's face.

 

However, I just think it would be a funny scene and Jensen would rock it. Not everything I wish for has to be plot driven.

 

I think Dean sees God as just another supernatural thing--a powerful supernatural thing, but just a thing none-the-less. To me, that's not anti-God; just pro-human.

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ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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