Spoilers With Speculation

[Omegamom]

Maybe they're sleeping in the car because of the Ever-Present Drizzle O' Doom? I'd think that Sam, especially, would want to doss down outside. They probably have ancient army surplus sleeping bags and lumpy pillows in the trunk somewhere, and just drop them on the ground beside Baby...

[AwesomO4000]

Depending on the season, you can't underestimate the potential influence of our six-legged friends. I'd rather be a little stuffy inside a car than plagued by a swarm of high-pitched buzzing mosquitoes.

[Omegamom]

To my chagrin, most of the males I have been intimately involved with (family, friends, lovers) are not plagued by mosquitoes. I, on the other hand, am. So not only do males have beautiful eyelashes naturally, they also don't attract mosquito bites. Grrrr.

I still think the boys, being tall, would rather slather on mosquito repellant and sleep stretched out. ;-

[rue721]

They're in the car all the time, though. Wouldn't they at least want a break from being in the car? I would think that it would be easy to go all Yellow Wallpaper when you're just seeing the same four "walls" and listening to the same twelve cassette tapes (and possibly radio) over and over for decades. I agree that Sam especially would be READY to sleep outside and get some air/have some space!

 

(Damn, this episode is going to be fun. Just thinking about the logistics of how they live out of their car is fun, imo. I think Baby is the Carver Crew's version of Robbie Thompson's "laundry day" idea).

 

Maybe they're sleeping in the car because of the Ever-Present Drizzle O' Doom? I'd think that Sam, especially, would want to doss down outside. They probably have ancient army surplus sleeping bags and lumpy pillows in the trunk somewhere, and just drop them on the ground beside Baby...

 

Yeah, this is basically what I was picturing.

 

OK, now that I'm thinking over their options w/r/t accommodations, I'm picturing them showing up for a room through AirBnB. Imagine opening your door and finding out you'd just rented out your living room fold-out to these two gigantic guys who haven't had a chance to shower in a while and are covered in semi-concealed weapons.

 

Depending on the season, you can't underestimate the potential influence of our six-legged friends. I'd rather be a little stuffy inside a car than plagued by a swarm of high-pitched buzzing mosquitoes.

 

The only time I've been "camping," it was at a multi-day music festival. We slept outside, on the ground (we laid down a sheet). It didn't occur to me to sleep in the car, tbh (we were driving a Toyota 4Runner). Anyway, we slept with the blanket pulled over our faces, so that we wouldn't get sunburned while we slept through the morning. Bugs weren't a problem.

 

It really wasn't uncomfortable or a big deal. Much better than being all cramped up in the stuffy, HOT car. But maybe I only thought it was comfy because I sleep with the blanket over my head when I'm at home, too.

 

I have heard that you have to be careful of your tent getting washed away if you're camping during a storm. But there are also apparently ways to stay dry? Idk, that level of expertise is way beyond me.

[catrox14]

Personally, I have slept in cars a lot during road trips and I find a certain comfort. It's peaceful. It's almost like a cocoon for me.

 

That car is Dean's home when he's not in the bunker or a cheesy motel room. I think Sam can live and sleep anywhere be it the Impala, hotel rooms, hovels etc because anywhere is home to Sam because nowhere is really home. Maybe the bunker more so now. They spend a lot of time creeping around the back roads, in and out of creepy buildings etc, so to me sleeping in the car is comforting more than sleeping outside, not to say they wouldn't.

 

My headcanon is that Dean has had enough of the great outdoors after spending a year in Purgatory, living outside, in caves, who knows where else while living a 24/7 kill or be killed by 31 flavors of bottom dwelling nasties life all whilst desperately trying to find Cas. I think the only outdoors Dean wants now is a beach.  

Edited October 27, 2015 by catrox14

[mertensia]

To be honest a lot of the time they are probably grabbing a few Zs at rest stops and truck stops- not a place to be lying on the ground.

[DittyDotDot]

They're in the car all the time, though. Wouldn't they at least want a break from being in the car? I would think that it would be easy to go all Yellow Wallpaper when you're just seeing the same four "walls" and listening to the same twelve cassette tapes (and possibly radio) over and over for decades. I agree that Sam especially would be READY to sleep outside and get some air/have some space!

 

The only time I've been "camping," it was at a multi-day music festival. We slept outside, on the ground (we laid down a sheet). It didn't occur to me to sleep in the car, tbh (we were driving a Toyota 4Runner). Anyway, we slept with the blanket pulled over our faces, so that we wouldn't get sunburned while we slept through the morning. Bugs weren't a problem.

 

It really wasn't uncomfortable or a big deal. Much better than being all cramped up in the stuffy, HOT car. But maybe I only thought it was comfy because I sleep with the blanket over my head when I'm at home, too.

 

I have heard that you have to be careful of your tent getting washed away if you're camping during a storm. But there are also apparently ways to stay dry? Idk, that level of expertise is way beyond me.

 

I love sleeping outside on a clear summer's night so you can watch the stars--even better if the northern lights are out to watch. Find a nice grassy spot to curl up and I'm a pretty happy camper (heh). If the weather is bad or a buggy time of year, I'll pitch my tent, but I kinda feel suffocated by them sometimes. Now that I live in the mid-West, it's rare to not need a tent, though. The bugs here are abundant and big! But, out west, in the mountains, where the air is dry and clean, no need for a tent as long as the weather is accommodating.

 

Anyhoo, I would imagine them sleeping in the car isn't all that regular. Probably only when they can't find a room to rent. They do seem to do the motel shtick more often than not. It's a great little detail for the episode though. I wish they'd do more of this sort of stuff. I think I'd be almost as excited about a laundry day episode.

[SueB]

I'm Team Laundry Day as well.

 

Based on the snippet from the K-site interview, I think they strapped on the cameras and then let them drive off and do the scene.  That's a shit-ton of trust in your actors to pull off JUST what you want.  I can't wait.  

[Omegamom]

That's what it sounded like to me, too. I was pretty darned impressed.

[catrox14]

I'm thinking they might not have allowed that if Jensen hadn't built some street cred with his directing. I would think he would have had to make some adjustments if the scenes weren't working right. So I'm just gonna go ahead and say that Jensen co-directed the episode. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :) /folds arms

[Demented Daisy]

TVLine article about Baby

[catrox14]

So......I have a wackadoodle theory I've been noodling on and I suspect this is going to be a controversial post but here goes.

 

I've been saying since the premiere that something is off about Dean. It's really subtle things. Things where I just go..."ruhhhr".

All the meatsuits and gender bending with the meatsuits is for a reason.

 

1) That Amara and Dean are possibly merging in some way or are already kind of merged. Amara saying 'We will always help each other". 

or

2) and I am actually becoming more settled on this wackadoodle theory ....

 

Dean is Charlie/Charlie is Dean.

 

Hear me out.

 

The showrunners said we would see Charlie in some way, shape or form this season. I think maybe now it was actually Charlie that saved Dean. I don't know quite how it would work but I present my case.

 

1) Dean wakes up in a field of flowers like Dorothy in Oz.

2) Dean says "untenable" that a lot of viewers were like "ruhhhrrhh'? I was less perplexed but I get why it was noticeable. That could be a Charlie word. 

3) Dean's snark is almost too much. Too cliched. The ghostbusters answer that I just don't think Dean would have quipped.

4) Dean wrapping Cas in a blanket and touching him on his shoulder repeatedly whilst lovely but something was odd about that. It seemed like a big shift but maybe Dean was just seeing things differently after the big scare .

5)The conversations between Dean and Cas on the phone were more open than I would have expected but see 4.

6) The entire "perp" conversation with Cas was odd. Like I legit thought Dean didn't know what "perp" meant which I thought ...huh?  Then the tomato salsa analogy.  Dean said "Oh and you're the tomato in this analogy" and was so proud to have gotten that, and thinking about it...it felt very Charlie. Then Sam kind of giving Dean the bitchface for the tomato conversation and Dean's face falling...seemed odd.

7) Rowena telling Dean that something was different and the reaction felt MoC!Dean but in my squirrelly theory that could be Dark!Charlie

8) The mention of Dean wearing short shorts and washing Baby in "Baby" . I can't fathom under what scenario Dean would voluntarily wear short shorts. I could see Charlie wearing short shorts to wash the car.

8) Baby was written by Robbie Thompson who we know loves Charlie beyond anything.

 

So my wackadoodle theory is that Dean and Charlie are merged in some way, shape or form.

 

Be gentle in your criticisms :)

 

 

ETA:  Also remember that everything Carver said at Comic Con about the boys being back together etc etc was qualified with an "-ish".  

Edited October 27, 2015 by catrox14

[Omegamom]

O.O

Um...

Um...

No...?

;-)

[Demented Daisy]

After the "angel in Sam" debacle, I would be surprised if they tried it with Dean.  But they do so love to recycle....  *sigh*

 

Did I mention that Audrey and Mara merged on Haven last season?  (I haven't started the final season yet, so I don't know what they've done with it.)

[catrox14]

O.O

 

 

 

 

O.O

Um...

Um...

No...?

;-)

 

Is that your only rebuttal?  Please, elaborate. I would really like to be talked out of my theory.

[Diane]

I am not seeing anything that would lead me to that conclusion. I think they are both acting like that are tired, but considering everything they have been through I think they are acting normal. Just my opinion. By the way I watched the Chicon videos today and Misha crashed the J2 panel and Jensen and Misha said that Misha is in an episode and never stepped on set. Ummmmm

[Aeryn13]

I`m pretty sure Dean is just Dean. And when they say, we`re gonna see Charlie back in some shape or form, they are talking ghost, dream or flashback. 

 

This show is actually pretty straightforward. They telegraph things. Just a couple days back there were still were some elaborate theories about Amara and the Darkness and possibly being somewhat different entities and Carver just simply says "the Darkness is now a six-year-old girl yada yada". Because that is how the show and its writers operates.

 

There is never really a twist you don`t see coming unless it is pulling some story out of their asses like the MOC being the lock and key for a primordial evil. They openly admitted to doing stuff as a cliffhanger and only later thinking about how to resolve it. Aka, there is no plan.When the writers say "noone will be able to guess what the Darkness wants", it is because at this point they likely don`t know either. They will keep it vague until so many episodes have passed into the Season that someone has to come up with something. 

 

So really, I will never, ever, ever, ever, ever believe that there is some elobarote plan for anything here. Not in this show. This is not how they write or even think. IF Dean and Charlie were revealed to have been merged later into the Season, there would be one and only one reason for it: some writer read it here as a theory, liked it and then wrote it in. 

[Omegamom]

Aeryn's right: things are fairly straightforward in the SPN universe. I could vaguely see the theory that Amara and Dean were--not merged, but influencing each other...we've already got the "we're bound" commentary, and Dean spacing out now and then.

I still think Dean's general atmosphere in theses first few episodes is tired, shell shocked, dismay about the Darkness as yet another end-of-the-world evil that they need to deal with. I think Dean was proud of Cas for generating his analogy, as forced as it was. And that he was merely perplexed as to why Cas was referring to Metadouche as "the perp". And, for all we know, there's a sexy woman Dean wants to flash his thighs at, via a vis the rumored "short shorts". And Dean and Sam can't wear jeans or FBI suits all the time, right? We've seen Sam in t-shirt and flannel pants when he's rousted out of bed...surely the boys might wear shorts now and then?

Edited October 27, 2015 by Omegamom

[catrox14]

I don't think they are always straight forward.

 

If Chuck is God, nobody really saw that coming that I can think of and even now it's debated as to whether or not that he is God.

 

Dean becoming a demon was not that straightforward IMO. Some viewers predicted it, but until they actually had his eyes go black, I don't think it was clear cut that was the only possible outcome.

 

I sure didn't expect to see Dean's entire Michael Vessel arc being chucked for Adam.  I don't think that was telegraphed.

 

I didn't think Sam was Meg until the moment they revealed he was Meg.

 

One of the main reasons I hope I'm wrong about my Charlie/Dean theory is that if it is an amalgamation or something it kind of  diminishes Dean's apparent growth with being a bit more open, a bit more sensitive, a bit more empathetic than what he typically OUTWARDLY shows. Please understand I AM IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM saying Dean doesn't care about people, doesn't love Sam, doesn't take care of people he absolutely does. He generally has that bravado over everything. That's all I'm saying before everyone yells at me. LOL

 

Yeah that thing about Misha not being on set to film a segment...was...odd

 

 

And, for all we know, there's a sexy woman Dean wants to flash his thighs at. ;-)

 

 

That scene takes place in the bunker. What woman is going to be in the bunker he wants to flash his thighs at? LOL.  

Edited October 27, 2015 by catrox14

[SueB]

 

there's a sexy woman Dean wants to flash his thighs at

Is that a thing? Guys do that?  Hmmmm....

 

catrox... I'm fairly sure Dean is Dean.  I think Charlie is truly dead. They definitely have some subtle differences going on in Dean's head but I don't think it's anything except for potentially the influence from being bound to The Darkness.

[Omegamom]

Is it at the bunker? There's a bit in the preview where Dean is handing the keys to the car over to someone and saying, "Remember: Not a scratch!" Either it's a valet parking situation or a car wash...maybe he just joins in because he's anal about Baby.

Is that a thing? Guys do that?  Hmmmm....

 

How else to explain speedos? ;-)

Well, they certainly like to flash some stuff at beaches and pools, that's for sure...

[catrox14]

 

Is it at the bunker?

 

Yeah, either Jensen or Jared said it was at the bunker IIRC. 

 

 

Well, they certainly like to flash some stuff at beaches and pools, that's for sure...

 

Dean in a speedo? Voluntarily?  No way. LOL he'd rather eat his own arm.  Board shorts? Sure.

 

I would pay all the money to see Dean in board shorts....wet....

Edited October 27, 2015 by catrox14

[catrox14]

Hmmm. so thinking more, because clearly I'm bored.

 

I have a question.  Have we ever seen Dean stitch up someone before or himself for that matter? I really can't remember.

 

Remember how Charlie was split in two? What if when the Darkness was unleashed it somehow resurrected  both parts of her and she's trying to help them from the afterlife in some way.  What if Charlie is actually affecting both Dean and Sam?

 

Just the musings of a madwoman over here whilst waiting for baseball. :) 

 

 

*****************************************************************************************************************************

ETA:  Jensen just posted this outtake from Baby ( I think?)

 

Jensen Ackles ‏@JensenAckles 2m2 minutes ago

Our #Supernatural promos keep getting more intelligent. Filled w/ ah-ha moments. Right @jarpad? Enjoy. #outtakes

 

 

 

LOLOL

Edited October 28, 2015 by catrox14

[SueB]

That was awesome!

[catrox14]

I'm sorry but Jensen's voice when he got a little soft spoken when he said "Well, that way, technically"....JFC

 

..the things that did to me....I don't....lordy /swoons

Edited October 28, 2015 by catrox14

[Triskan]

That was hilarious ! :D

[SueB]

http://www.thetvaddict.com/2015/10/29/supernatural-jared-padaleckijensen-ackles-amara-the-darkness-spoilers-interview/

 

To help you with your Pod!Dean concerns... there's a line in this article that may address some of what's going on with Dean:

 

 

When asked about Dean's connection to Amara, Ackles said that “we will see kind of that relationship a little bit more and see what exactly that relationship is. I don’t think that he knows what to make of it. I’m not sure that he understands the connection and why [he has it with her].” Be prepared for Dean to hide his nerves about this connection.

 

Meanwhile, as the brothers fight together against a common foe, the actors were asked to give their thoughts on the nature of the Darkness and whether she (it?) is inherently evil. While Padalecki thinks that she is, Ackles was a bit more forgiving, explaining that it’s possible the Darkness “isn’t inherently evil, [but is maybe] opposite of what we know in the world as good. Or as light, so to speak. Which is why she is the Darkness…..I think it means she is out to bring darkness and whatever that means is yet to be determined

 

(edited) As the video progresses Jared said he and Jensen's positions on Amara somewhat reflect their characters. Sam is "SHE EVIL", Dean is not so sure.  

 

Probably the best video thus far of the full interviews from last week.

Edited October 29, 2015 by SueB

[catrox14]

Thanks for SueB. I'm not sure that helps but I appreciate the effort. LOL

[Demented Daisy]

http://tvline.com/2015/10/29/arrow-season-4-felicitys-mother-returns-spoilers/

 

What does it mean for Supernatural‘s Dean that he and The Darkness are bound? What plans does Amara/Darkness have for him? Can one be killed without hurting the other? –DeMara
One can definitely be injured without affecting the other. “It’s not like a voodoo doll” (or “twinsies,” as Jared Padalecki jokes) “or anything like that,” star Jensen Ackles clarifies. “We will see… what exactly that relationship is” between Dean and The Darkness, Ackles adds. “I don’t think that he knows what to make of it. What it all means and how it’s all going to tie into his destiny and his future and what that means for the brothers, he’s very nervous about. Obviously, those nerves are something that he’s going to be hiding, but we will see it get fleshed out a bit.”

 

 

Supernatural‘s Sam and the Reaper — is there more to this story? –JJ
Interestingly, Dean will also be meeting Billie the reaper (played by Lisa Berry), in the fall finale. “To be honest… we have not shot those scenes yet, so I don’t know how intense it’s going to be,” Jensen Ackles said on set last week. “But I’m excited to work with her.”

 

Billie the Reaper in the fall finale, huh?  Interesting, considering the Blind Item....

[Omegamom]

Second half of the season is about getting Sam out of The Empty? Just tossin' it out there...

I'm gonna say it, even if it jinxes things: I think Season 11 is turning out much better than I expected. Of course, since I didn't expect much, given how out of left field "killing" Death was, and The Darkness was...but I am liking it so far.

[Demented Daisy]

Months ago I said that Sam and Dean would be separated this season and that Dean might spend part of it searching for Sam....

[Omegamom]

Sheriff Donna!

http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/supernatural-plush-description-sheriff-donna-returns/84507/

[catrox14]

YAY!!!!

 

Please don't kill her off. Please don't kill her off. Please don't kill her off.  Please hook her up with Dean. Please hook her up with Dean. Please don't kill her off.

[Demented Daisy]

We still haven't seen rabbit-suit dude yet, have we?  I still say he would belong in an episode titled Plush....

[catrox14]

I am so excited for Donna to be back. She is easily my favorite female character of the show. She's just so genuine and imperfect and smart. /heart eyes for Donna.   My opinion may also be clouded by my minor girl crush on Briana LOL.

[Aeryn13]

I hope we`re gonna see somewhat more of whatever connection it is Dean has with Amara in the next week`s episode. Even though it`s teen!Amara. 

 

I want something about DEAN`s mytharc connection to tide me over if Sam`s visions get storytime in even every standalone episode now. Can only hope it is not actually God. Not only would that make Sam a mega-Sue, it would also mean Dean has to grovel in the end about doubting Sam. Because while God ignores everyone else ever, including Dean, he would of course come running to get involved when Sam prays. That would be the final straw of the pimping and vs-writing.

 

Anf if they don`t want to make it Lucifer who sends the visions, I`ll take Michael (even though that is insult to injury in its own way  but less so) or Gabriel. 

 

"I never could fool you"? That`s a line Lucifer or Gabriel might say. 

[Omegamom]

IMO, it's Lucifer sending the visions to Sam. First, Sam is Lucifer's vessel. Second, the first vision was clearly a "talk to the guys in the Cage" prod. Third, yes, "I could never fool you" is definitely something Luci would say.

[DittyDotDot]

Can only hope it is not actually God. Not only would that make Sam a mega-Sue, it would also mean Dean has to grovel in the end about doubting Sam. Because while God ignores everyone else ever, including Dean, he would of course come running to get involved when Sam prays. That would be the final straw of the pimping and vs-writing.

 

Has Dean asked for help from God? I wouldn't say that God is jumping and running whenever Sam asks for help. In fact, I don't recall him ever answering Sam's prayers in the past and I don't think he's done much praying for God's help since S4. The only time I recall Dean asking for God's help was in S5, so I wouldn't say he was ignoring Dean. In fact, one might interpret God interfering some in S5 an answer to Dean's a prayer. But I'm weird that way.

 

Personally, I'm thinking that it will turn out to be that Sam is both right and wrong here, as will Dean. I'm thinking the visions will not be from God (Dean right and Sam wrong), but they will be from something opposite of The Darkness (Dean wrong and Sam right). I was hoping they'd just leave the cage alone at this point, but I too am I'm thinking the visions are from Lucifer and Michael. Bob is probably forcing them to unite. 

 

I'm becoming more and more convinced Amara is not Bob.

[Aeryn13]

 

I'm thinking the visions will not be from God (Dean right and Sam wrong), but they will be from something opposite of The Darkness

 

I never doubted it comes from Darkness opposition. Just as long as it`s not God.

 

As for Amara and the Darkness, since Carver himself said "the Darkness is now a 6 year old girl" in the episode 3 preview. Carver isn`t very savvy in doing interviews and those previews things. In fact, he can barely express himself most of the times. If there was a character named Amara and ultimately another "character" as the darkness, I don`t think he could keep himself from keeping them straight.

 

By using both names interchangeably, it says to me that what you see is what you get. Aka Amara IS the Darkness. 

 

Of course in the same way Death was Death and people are still dying. So, I`m not counting out some WTF-ness with the Darkness itself but it is IMO meant to be just one character who has taken physical form.

 

I`m always astonished by things TV writers seem astonished by. Like, just the other day I read an interview with an Arrow writer going "so and so is not going to be the case but it would have been such a cool idea, wish we had thought of that". Not only did it sound genuine, I think IF they had thought of it, they would have totally gone with it. So I believe that writer. Problem is? So-and-so was THE most obvious story twist ever. Everyone and their kitchen thought of it.

 

For my money, it`s the same with SPN. So they are the same character and were always meant to be the same character but I wouldn`t even be slightly surprised if somewhere down the line they wrote themselves into a corner with that and everyone sees it coming a mile away. That is, everyone but the writing staff.

[SueB]

Has Dean asked for help from God?

Oh yes he did, and on screen.  At the end of S5: "My Bloody Valentine", Sam's in demon blood detox and Dean is drinking straight from the bottle.  Dean goes outside by the Impala, looks up at the heavens and says: "Please. I can't... I need your help. Please?"

 

And then just two episodes later Joshua talks directly to Dean when he says God has heard him (Dean) and he has a message: "Back off".  That he's intervened enough already and he's finished.  I think THIS was the moment that Dean's resentment towards God became so big, I don't think he's spoken to God since.  The last time he prayed it was directly to the Angels to come heal Sam.  Which, Gadreel and others (shout out to Tractor Angel!) responded to.

 

Which leads me to the following observation:

- I'm 90+% sure the messages are from the cage -- and the ONLY reason I'm keeping it in on the spoiler page is because of the BTS shot of the Cage. But so many have already figured out this without the BTS picture.

- Personally, I think it's Lucifer who has forged the connection based on his unique relationship with Sam.

- I think Micheal is HELPING Lucifer.  I think that hurt-animal scream was probably Lucifer (the Light Bringer) but I can see Micheal and Lucifer immediately setting aside their differences as The Darkness is their common enemy.

- I think it was Young!John not just because Matt Cohen is 1000% easier to get as a guest star but because that's who Lucifer has access to in terms of vessel memories.  Young!John DID say all the right things but not just to manipulate Sam. I think Luci got the memories from Micheal and understood how Young!John felt about his sons and wife.  But I still think "I could never fool you." was 100% Lucifer.

- IF the those in the cage are limited to who they can access, then Adam would be up next.  And J2 said they DO mention Adam in the fall finale.  But I got the impression they don't see Adam.  I'm not so sure that's the case.  Depends on the actor.  He seems to want to stick with films. On the other hand, his docket is not full.

- If NOT limited to the cage, then it'll be people Sam would trust.  MAYBE Mary next, because John knew her so well.  It won't be Nick. As soon as Sam finds out it's coming from the Cage, he's going to shy away.  Although, it's logical.

 

Personally, I think Crowley will have to come crawling back to the Winchesters with his intel.  Once they hear the cage is stirring, if Crowley tells them, they may make the connection.  Of course, any random demon would tell them that as well.  But seriously, what demon would take on the Winchesters at this point?  They locked Micheal/Lucifer in the cage.  Unless Crowley transmits an explicit kill order (like with his mother), then I'd be worried whether Crowley was Team Winchester or not on any given day.  So.. I suspect it'll be Crowley who talks about the cage first.

 

As for Dean, going back to Dean still being pissed at God... I think it's adding up to Dean siding with The Darkness (not on purpose, btw).  But Dean was already open to "God's an ass" in his mind. Now with his connection to Amara, who wants to punish God?  Is it any surprise that Dean said "pump the brakes" as soon as Sam said he prayed to God?  He almost got more of a reaction out of any faith in God than he did out of finding out Sam was infected.  This fits with the Dean as we know him but it could also be a natural aversion that is part of his Amara connection.

And yes, I use Amara=The Darkness interchangeably.  I always forget what "Bob" means and I think the two are the same thing. One is just her future self -- which should be easy for a deity-class to pull off.

 

BTW: On the possibility that Dean dies when confronted by The Reaper Billy.... I think "no".  I think The Darkness is Team Dean and she'd stop Billy from dropping his soul off into the Empty.  I don't know how, but I just don't see Amara giving up her connection.  J2 said it's not a voodoo doll kind of connection but I think "death" is a bridge too far for Amara.  

Edited October 30, 2015 by SueB

[DittyDotDot]

Oh yes he did, and on screen.  At the end of S5: "My Bloody Valentine", Sam's in demon blood detox and Dean is drinking straight from the bottle.  Dean goes outside by the Impala, looks up at the heavens and says: "Please. I can't... I need your help. Please?"

 

Yep, that's the one time I was referencing in my post. My point was, I don't think God is ignoring Dean and jumping in for Sam, I just don't think Dean is asking for God's help right now. But then again, I don't think Sam's getting his prayers answered by God either, so...

[catrox14]

 

Is it any surprise that Dean said "pump the brakes" as soon as Sam said he prayed to God?

 

Not trying to nitpick, I swear! But Dean said, "Whoa, pump the brakes" when Sam speculated that the messages are coming from God", not just because Sam prayed.  To me that's an important distinction.  Dean wouldn't be freaked out about Sam praying to God but he would be like "Wait, what, GOD talking to you?' .

 

Which leads me to my complete and utter befuddlement with Dean asking Sam "Why would somebody dress up like Dad to send you a message?" How the fuck does Dean NOT remember or mention that lengthy conversation with Michael in young!John's meatsuit.  I know the show dicks up canon all the time but that is TOO important for no one to remember.  That HAS got to be an intentional thing. I just don't want to believe that it's canon failure.

 

Sigh...all of this just feeds into my pod!Dean paranoia LOL. 

Edited October 30, 2015 by catrox14

[SueB]

I think the last time Sam prayed was his confession in S8.  And technically, he wasn't asking for anything but forgiveness in order to purify his blood. Since the spell was working... I think he got that purification he was seeking.  

 

But I don't think God answers Sam more than Dean.  I think God answers/responds when he feels he should with what answers he feels he should.  In this case, I think the visions are from the Cage but I FULLY expect God to show up this season and will be seriously disappointed if he doesn't.  

 

From Nightsky at The Winchester Family Business (who attended Jared's Meet and Greet in Chicago):

(*Slight Spoiler Alert*…..) He said 10 contains the only scene in series’ history where all 5 leads are in the same scene together. Some situation puts Sam, Dean, Castiel, Crowley and Rowena together (*end spoiler*)

 

I'm going to hazard a guess that if Jared is pumped up about EP10, it's going to be a Sam w/ supernatural influence episode.  

[Aeryn13]

I think they should leave God well enough alone on this show. There is no way, not a single one, they won`t fuck it up to epic degrees. They already completely ruined Death for me in the Season 9 Opener when he basically gave Sam a BJ. I do NOT need to see this from God too.

 

I'm going to hazard a guess that if Jared is pumped up about EP10, it's going to be a Sam w/ supernatural influence episode.

 

I read he is psyched about episodes 9, 10 and 11. Got a sinking feeling about that because it`s likely means they will be big Sam-myth-episodes and Dean-who-ones, exactly the kind of eps I hate. Like Suck Song. 

 

So far, Jensen has only named the car episode as his standout this Season. And even that was only half-good IMO. 

Edited October 30, 2015 by Aeryn13

[SueB]

Not trying to nitpick, I swear! But Dean said, "Whoa, pump the brakes" when Sam speculated that the messages are coming from God", not just because Sam prayed.  To me that's an important distinction.  Dean wouldn't be freaked out about Sam praying to God but he would be like "Wait, what, GOD talking to you?' .

 

Which leads me to my complete and utter befuddlement with Dean asking Sam "Why would somebody dress up like Dad to send you a message?" How the fuck does Dean NOT remember or mention that lengthy conversation with Michael in young!John's meatsuit.  I know the show dicks up canon all the time but that is TOO important for no one to remember.  That HAS got to be an intentional thing. I just don't want to believe that it's canon failure.

 

Sigh...all of this just feeds into my pod!Dean paranoia LOL. 

 

You're right about it being when Sam said he thought the vision came from God.  I did feel his big emphasis was that God doesn't respond.

 

Can you clarify the canon issue?  Sam said it was Young!John and Dean didn't bat an eye that Sam would know what that looked like.    

[Demented Daisy]

Yep, that's the one time I was referencing in my post. My point was, I don't think God is ignoring Dean and jumping in for Sam, I just don't think Dean is asking for God's help right now. But then again, I don't think Sam's getting his prayers answered by God either, so...

 

For what it's worth, that's what I thought you meant when you asked if Dean had asked for God's help -- did he ask this season?  Big shocker there, huh?  ;-)

 

But I don't think God answers Sam more than Dean.  I think God answers/responds when he feels he should with what answers he feels he should.  In this case, I think the visions are from the Cage but I FULLY expect God to show up this season and will be seriously disappointed if he doesn't.  

 

 

 

Yep, same here.  I can't buy that they can do this without his help, even with a rag tag bunch of angels, demons, witches, and monsters.  Add their various powers up and they still wouldn't equal God.  And even He needed help before.

[catrox14]

 

Can you clarify the canon issue?  Sam said it was Young!John and Dean didn't bat an eye that Sam would know what that looked like.

 

Michael appeared to Dean in young!John's meatsuit in Song Remains the Same.

 

In Baby, Dean asks with all earnestness "Why would somebody dress up like Dad..to give you a message?"

 

Why would Dean not immediately remember that Michael did EXACTLY that with him in Song Remains the Same?

 

I do not want God to show up in this show unless we know it's the end of the series. And even then I'm not really loving that idea. I don't want Jesus to show up either.

Edited October 30, 2015 by catrox14

[SueB]

Michael appeared to Dean in young!John's meatsuit in Song Remains the Same.

 

In Baby, Dean asks with all earnestness "Why would somebody dress up like Dad..to give you a message?"

 

Why would Dean not immediately remember that Michael did EXACTLY that with him in Song Remains the Same?

 

Well.... it was likely more of a dream than a vision in Dean's mind. So for him to jump to "maybe it was Micheal" would have been a big leap IMO.  Yes, WE know the Cage has been rattled but Dean doesn't.  So... will they draw the connection later? Likely.  But that Dean's mind didn't go their right away doesn't bother me.  That was like 6+ years ago.... a LOT of water and hallucinations under the bridge since then.  

[Aeryn13]

 

I can't buy that they can do this without his help, even with a rag tag bunch of angels, demons, witches, and monsters.  Add their various powers up and they still wouldn't equal God.  And even He needed help before.

 

If it was about sheer power, yes. But they already had Amara exposition that God tricked her, not overpowered her. Depending on what that entails, trickery can be used successfully by a much weaker opponent. Like, Dean couldn`t have beaten the Mother of all Monsters on a power-level but he tricked and killed her nevertheless.  

 

To me, that line was their carte blanche to defeat the Darkness. And Billie the Reaper mentioning the Empty is the place where they can "imprison" her again.    

[DittyDotDot]

Michael appeared to Dean in young!John's meatsuit in Song Remains the Same.

 

In Baby, Dean asks with all earnestness "Why would somebody dress up like Dad..to give you a message?"

 

Why would Dean not immediately remember that Michael did EXACTLY that with him in Song Remains the Same?

 

I'm not sure this indicates that Dean doesn't remember what happened with Michael, but was more saying why would someone do this now. I don't know, I don't see how this is a canon-fail, myself. But then again, I've gotten good at ignoring a whole lot lately, so...