Spoilers With Speculation

[catrox14]

No offense, but what difference does it make?

 

I would rather it be a mistake on the part of the writer/publication than a mistake from Jared. I would hope Jared has a better handle on the Metatron/God thing than what his supposed quote implies.  It doesn't have to bug you or anyone else, but it stood out to me like a sore thumb. Not gonna apologize for that.

How about...“Since we know [he's] a scribe of God's, we may have to invite him along for the ride.”

 

That would make sense as well.

 

Call me nitpicky if you like but to me the way it's worded changes a lot considering the entire article was about the possible  appearance or (reappearance of God if one believesChuck is God).  And FWIW reading comments on the article I'm not the only person that was like "WAIT, WHAT?"

[Demented Daisy]

I would rather it be a mistake on the part of the writer/publication than a mistake from Jared. I would hope Jared has a better handle on the Metatron/God thing than what his supposed quote implies.  It doesn't have to bug you or anyone else, but it stood out to me like a sore thumb. Not gonna apologize for that.

 

Who asked you to apologize?  

[catrox14]

No one? I was just answering your question.

[Demented Daisy]

I don't see what the big deal is either way.  

 

If Jared thinks that Chuck is God, then God is a scribe because he wrote the Winchester gospels.

[catrox14]

I don't see what the big deal is either way.  

 

If Jared thinks that Chuck is God, then God is a scribe because he wrote the Winchester gospels.

 

I could tell by your question you didn't see what the big deal is either way. That's just my opinion. But for me it changes many things especially if one is in the camp that I am in that doesn't believe Chuck is God.  We can agree to disagree.

[Demented Daisy]

I could tell by your question you didn't see what the big deal is either way. That's just my opinion. But for me it changes many things especially if one is in the camp that I am in that doesn't believe Chuck is God.  We can agree to disagree.

 

Yes, I know you don't think Chuck is God because you said so a couple of pages ago.  You said that there isn't enough evidence.  What kind of evidence would satisfy you?

[7kstar]

I think Mark and Misha are here to stay. After filming EVERY scene in 'Baby', Jensen said it was grueling and he was tired. I think both of the boys would have a real issue without M3 there to take some screen time.

I tend to think that a demand was made to give them less time on screen.  Most shows have more than 2 leads and so the schedule isn't so grueling.  I doubt Jensen would want to continue for long if it went back to just the 2 brothers.

 

I've always had a problem with Chuck being God.  I can see Chuck being taken over at the end but the set up with Chuck as God, stinks for me.  I would rather have Chuck come back saying God won't leave him alone and passing on information or having someone else play God...but I get the other side sort of, I just don't like it.

Yes, I know you don't think Chuck is God because you said so a couple of pages ago.  You said that there isn't enough evidence.  What kind of evidence would satisfy you?

IA with Chuck isn't God camp, because why would God need saving?  So he is weak too?  Doesn't care...The switch comes out of no where and I don't find it personally compelling.  JMO :)

[catrox14]

Yes, I know you don't think Chuck is God because you said so a couple of pages ago.  You said that there isn't enough evidence.  What kind of evidence would satisfy you?

 

When the show blatantly outright says in dialogue and words with Chuck in the scene and he says "yes I am God" and Carver says YES Chuck is God and then an entire group of theologians says he's God, maybe then. They have symbolism which is open to interpretation. They have said they left it up to the viewers to decide for themselves. I'm not going by Kripke's jokey tweets or comments after the fact to Rob Benedict that Chuck is God.

 

We really won't have a meeting of the minds on this one. You have your interpretation and I have mine :)

[Demented Daisy]

I don't need a meeting of the minds.  I have everything I need now.  :-)

[Demented Daisy]

IA with Chuck isn't God camp, because why would God need saving?  So he is weak too?  

 

I don't understand what you mean here.  

[7kstar]

I don't understand what you mean here.  

For me, the introduce Chuck as a prophet writing Dean and Sam's life history.  He needs protecting from Lilith, an archangel to keep him safe.  Then in the last ep of season 5 out of no where comes this idea that Chuck is God.  That he's been hiding in pain sight. 

 

So now he looks like this washed up has been.  He can't protect himself, but can somehow bring Cas, Dean and Sam back to life...So now they've made Angels jerks, God weak and a has been and I'm suppose to think this is cool.  I just can't.  It's worst than the darkness stupidity of Season 10.  The layers don't match and I don't like it. 

 

Personally I just don't believe in this universe of God or angels. You can easily avoid the "Touch by an Angel"  by making them warriors that have gone off path because they lack direction.

 

I would rather have a God powerful enough to have a showdown with Death than one that decided to drink himself to death and hide in plain sight.

 

I just don't see the appeal of having Chuck as "God"?

[catrox14]

 

For me, the introduce Chuck as a prophet writing Dean and Sam's life history.  He needs protecting from Lilith, an archangel to keep him safe.  Then in the last ep of season 5 out of no where comes this idea that Chuck is God.  That he's been hiding in pain sight.

 

This is  always bothered me too. That's just one of many reasons why I don't buy into Chuck as God.

[SueB]

I believe Chuck was just Chuck the Prophet until Swan Song. I think God sent him off to witness relocation after his job was done. Maybe he's dead or maybe he's sipping Scotch on the beach. I think God took Chuck's form (he's God, he could look like an acorn if he wanted), for the S5 finale and Fan Fiction.

The reason I feel Chuck was just Chuck for most of S4 & 5 is because he had an intimate relationship with Becky. That would be a bit unseemly to have God break up with Becky. The reason I think God ends up wearing a Chuck suit was to 1) tell Dean where the showdown was 2) the narration wasGod-like 3) he disappears, 4) Kripke TOLD Rob he was playing God in Swan Song, and 5) the statement that Sam and Dean 'passed the test' at the end of SS seems very God-ish dialog.

[Demented Daisy]

For me, the introduce Chuck as a prophet writing Dean and Sam's life history.  He needs protecting from Lilith, an archangel to keep him safe.  Then in the last ep of season 5 out of no where comes this idea that Chuck is God.  That he's been hiding in pain sight. 

 

So now he looks like this washed up has been.  He can't protect himself, but can somehow bring Cas, Dean and Sam back to life...So now they've made Angels jerks, God weak and a has been and I'm suppose to think this is cool.  I just can't.  It's worst than the darkness stupidity of Season 10.  The layers don't match and I don't like it. 

 

Of course, it's all about interpretation, but this is how I always saw it:

 

God knew what Lucifer, Azazel, the angels, all of them were working towards.  He knew they were trying to bring about the Apocalypse.  But, as he has done since the death of Christ, he's hands off.  He wants to help, but not get directly involved.

 

Gabriel said that they always knew it would be Sam and Dean.  But God has gotten to know Sam and Dean.  He's watched them and cheered for them.  They've done what God wanted Lucifer to do -- protect mankind.

 

So maybe he's changed his mind.  Maybe he doesn't want Sam and Dean to be Lucifer and Michael's vessels.  Maybe he's no longer interested in humanity being destroyed, even if it means paradise for some of them.  If they got Heaven on earth, they would have gotten Heaven eventually anyway.

 

Now, if you haven't seen Dogma, this won't make sense.  God is infallible -- he doesn't make mistakes, he doesn't change his mind.  To do so would "unmake the world".  If he steps in and stops the Apocalypse, if he saves Sam and Dean, then he destroys everything he has created.  So he does the next best thing.  He gives them just enough info to save themselves and thus, the world.

 

I mention Dogma because Kripke was heavily influenced by it.  I don't blame him, it's an excellent movie.  I won't go into a detailed analysis of the movie, but there are plenty on the internet.  It goes a long way to explaining why Kripke made Chuck God, IMO.

 

Was Chuck always God?  I don't know.  It doesn't matter to me when Kripke decided Chuck was God.

 

But it amuses me that when Chuck meets Sam and Dean, he tells them that he's God.  ;-)

[catrox14]

But it amuses me that when Chuck meets Sam and Dean, he tells them that he's God.  ;-)

 

 

He says he's A god. Not the "God"

 

"Well, there's only one explanation. Obviously I'm a god... I'm definitely a god. A cruel, cruel, capricious god."

[Demented Daisy]

;-)  means I'm being facetious, not serious.

[7kstar]

Of course, it's all about interpretation, but this is how I always saw it:

 

 

So maybe he's changed his mind.  Maybe he doesn't want Sam and Dean to be Lucifer and Michael's vessels.  Maybe he's no longer interested in humanity being destroyed, even if it means paradise for some of them.  If they got Heaven on earth, they would have gotten Heaven eventually anyway.

 

Now, if you haven't seen Dogma, this won't make sense.  God is infallible -- he doesn't make mistakes, he doesn't change his mind.  To do so would "unmake the world".  If he steps in and stops the Apocalypse, if he saves Sam and Dean, then he destroys everything he has created.  So he does the next best thing.  He gives them just enough info to save themselves and thus, the world.

 

I mention Dogma because Kripke was heavily influenced by it.  I don't blame him, it's an excellent movie.  I won't go into a detailed analysis of the movie, but there are plenty on the internet.  It goes a long way to explaining why Kripke made Chuck God, IMO.

 

Was Chuck always God?  I don't know.  It doesn't matter to me when Kripke decided Chuck was God.

 

But it amuses me that when Chuck meets Sam and Dean, he tells them that he's God.  ;-)

I've never seen this movie...so I never saw this interpretation.  Perhaps if it had been laid out and not shown off like some surprise I could have gotten behind it.  I can see what your saying and it might be interesting but the building blocks were missing for me and all I saw was let's destroy the Christian faith.

 

I can see the amusement your feeling now that you explained it, but if you can't see it without someone explaining it, how can it be written well?  I wouldn't have a problem with God changing his mind and doing all he can to help out Dean and Sam but show me that.  That would have been interesting.  So once again it is another fail for Supernatural's writing.

 

But if Carver wants to show that this season and make it clearer...well that might make a very interesting issue.  Imagine Dean's reaction...especially since he doesn't have "faith in God".

[catrox14]

I couldn't resist because I do see that argument being made as evidence that Chuck is God. 

 

I've never seen this movie...so I never saw this interpretation.  Perhaps if it had been laid out and not shown off like some surprise I could have gotten behind it.  I can see what your saying and it might be interesting but the building blocks were missing for me and all I saw was let's destroy the Christian faith.

 

For me it was just another reason why s5 does not rate better for me.  They pull Adam out of their ass to be the Chosen vessel because they just can't commit to Dean and Sam facing off.  And they allude to maybe Chuck is God but have done nothing to support that LIKE AT ALL prior to that.  That's not good storytelling IMO.

 

But I generally hated Swan Song so I should just go to the bitterness thread for this. 

[Demented Daisy]

I can see the amusement your feeling now that you explained it, but if you can't see it without someone explaining it, how can it be written well?  I wouldn't have a problem with God changing his mind and doing all he can to help out Dean and Sam but show me that.  That would have been interesting.  So once again it is another fail for Supernatural's writing.

 

This is the problem with anything (tv show, book, movie, play, musical, etc.) using cultural references.  I didn't understand probably 75% of the episode titles for S10, but I'm not sure that's a writing fail.

 

I think, like the movie, Kripke didn't want God showing up until the end.  Because if God was there the whole time, and the audience knew it, then wouldn't the audience be less invested in Team Free Will?  If they believed that God would show up in the end and save them all?

 

In any case, and since this is the spec thread, I said months ago that God would have to show up because I don't believe for one second that TFW plus the Fergus Clan can do now what God and the archangels could barely do eons ago.  I still believe this to be the case.  And I would love it if he resurrected some angels along the way.

[7kstar]

I think if Carver is wise, he will bring in God and some past angels.

Tie it to season 5 and it could be very interesting indeed.

 

I guess the fail for me, is that I can get the mystery of keeping God out until the end, but I want to see the set up even if it doesn't make sense until the end.  Krikpe has done this in the past.  How he tied in Mary's "I'm sorry" from Home.  We didn't really get it till much later.  Planting a few more of those threads so we can see it in the end, would make the story epic.  So for me it is a fail. 

 

My question is, can Carver do something that ties this all together showing he has a real plan?  Right now I don't believe he does.  But it's also why I come here, so that some of you can give me hope when mine dies.  :)

[Demented Daisy]

I think if Carver is wise, he will bring in God and some past angels.

Tie it to season 5 and it could be very interesting indeed.

 

Just based on the pictures from the filming of Baby, I'd say they're possibly tying it to season 5, especially Swan Song.

https://storify.com/s_verasani/baby-on-set-of-episode-11x04

Edited August 27, 2015 by Demented Daisy

[AwesomO4000]

Now, if you haven't seen Dogma, this won't make sense.  God is infallible -- he doesn't make mistakes, he doesn't change his mind.  To do so would "unmake the world".  If he steps in and stops the Apocalypse, if he saves Sam and Dean, then he destroys everything he has created.  So he does the next best thing.  He gives them just enough info to save themselves and thus, the world.

 

But supposedly God did save Sam and Dean, because he put them on the airplane and "detoxed" Sam so he wouldn't be a demon. And he saved Castiel numerous times as well, so I can see the theory, but for me it still doesn't work.

 

Also I'm not even religious, like at all, and I'm not sure how I'd feel about a God who not only sleeps with and dumps Becky, but potentially also gets visits from dominatrices(?) like Mistress Magda. My interpretation was that either God was embodying and/or imitating Chuck when he was wearing white. Or Chuck just knew that his time was up, and so got gussied up for his trip to heaven.

 

It also seems weird to me that God would spend a bunch of time hanging around earth drinking and writing Supernatural books, because it would've taken a few years I would think to write that many books... or at least to have them published even if He just snapped his fingers to write them. Also ignoring Castiel's pleas for help would seem an unnecessarily cruel thing to do, bringing him back from the dead or not.

 

So maybe at some point in "Swan Song" Chuck was God, but in general, I tend to be in the Chuck was a prophet camp.

[7kstar]

I think for me, I have to go with Chuck was a Prophet and at the end God showed up as Chuck without anyone realizing it.  maybe...

 

I grew up Christian and it has a very strong influence on my faith, but now I usually just call myself Spiritual, because I don't believe one faith is necessarily better than another. 

 

Yes, God saved Sam, Dean & Cass, but I feel he needed to save them to keep his mission going.  But if he was Chuck, then he becomes cruel and I don't like that idea. so yeah I still tend to lean towards Chuck the Prophet...But I could be open to something showing why Chuck and God are more connected than we understood.  If that makes sense.  :)

[Demented Daisy]

But supposedly God did save Sam and Dean, because he put them on the airplane and "detoxed" Sam so he wouldn't be a demon. And he saved Castiel numerous times as well, so I can see the theory, but for me it still doesn't work.

 

When I said "if he saves Sam and Dean", I meant only by stopping the Apocalypse.  Putting them on an airplane and detoxing Sam doesn't stop the Apocalypse, so he's not defying his own decision.  Joshua said that what God did was more than he has done in a long time.  It's possible that he did those things because he felt bad about his earlier decision.  *shrug*

 

 

It also seems weird to me that God would spend a bunch of time hanging around earth drinking and writing Supernatural books, because it would've taken a few years I would think to write that many books... or at least to have them published even if He just snapped his fingers to write them. Also ignoring Castiel's pleas for help would seem an unnecessarily cruel thing to do, bringing him back from the dead or not.

 

This is explained by Dogma, too.  He comes to earth when he needs a break.  In Dogma, it was playing skee-ball.  Maybe in the SPN universe, drinking and writing is how he unwinds.

 

Ignoring pleas is kind of what God does in this universe.  He gave mankind free will, then said, "Okay, do your thing now!"  Is it cruel?  Maybe.  But it fits in with the big questions, like why do bad things happen to good people? 

 

I don't think that Kripke decided to make Chuck God until S5.  I don't think it's either "Chuck was God the whole time!" or "Chuck is not God!"  I think, like some others around here, that it's possible that God took Chuck's place at some point.

[7kstar]

If God took Chuck's place I could see it happening after Cas was killed...

 

I can see the opposite side...I'm just hoping that God finally takes a more hands on approach.  It's fine to be I gave you free will so bad things happens to good people...but If the Darkness is truly as scary as they are saying and not just a filibuster for season 11, then I want to see God trying to even out the playing field.  Otherwise, it's over and the world ends, right?

[SueB]

If God took Chuck's place I could see it happening after Cas was killed...

 

I can see the opposite side...I'm just hoping that God finally takes a more hands on approach.  It's fine to be I gave you free will so bad things happens to good people...but If the Darkness is truly as scary as they are saying and not just a filibuster for season 11, then I want to see God trying to even out the playing field.  Otherwise, it's over and the world ends, right?

It depends.  Perhaps God planned for this potential and has left behind things to help.  Then we'll have a S11 MacGuffin to chase down and wield against the Darkness. 

[Omegamom]

The Darkness Tablet.

And Metatron knows about it.

So he can use his knowledge to bargain with them to get his grace back...and he still has the Demon Tablet. So, my far far far out speculation: Metatron is the Big Bad for Season 12.

Remember, you heard it here first. ;-)

[DittyDotDot]

The Darkness Tablet.

 

Bwah, ha, ha! How did you ever manage to type that up? I can barely hold it together typing the D word. That's awesome, Omegamom!

[Omegamom]

...but, actually, given the lore, we should expect this. Because it's been established that God left operating instructions for all kinds of events. Surely, just in the far out, way out there chance that someone with Free Will was stupid enough to unleash The Darkness, he'd have left some kind of instructions for that, too.

Right?

Maybe it was so uber secret he wrote it down himself, and only left a vague reference to it, transcribed by Metadouche. And so they need hints and whispers and pieces of angel lore, demon lore, Purgatory lore, etc., to really find it.

;-)

[catrox14]

It depends.  Perhaps God planned for this potential and has left behind things to help.  Then we'll have a S11 MacGuffin to chase down and wield against the Darkness. 

 

That seems unlikely. I mean God seemed to think that a curse would be sufficient..to keep the Lock and "I would imagine" a key....

 

Which you know...that reminds me.

 

God using a curse? Really? ...I just...ugh....this whole thing is so annoying.

 

ETA: Like seriously.  So the whole idea of Free Will doesn't count because the Darkness came before God? Was God actually jealous of the Darkness?  What was so terrible about the Darkness that God would get into a war with it? Why is there something MORE powerful than God who is supposed to be omnipotent and omniscient? You know, more and more I really hope the Darkness isn't anything like I'm thinking it is.

 

A curse sounds like something Metatron would do, not God.  Just sayin'

Edited August 28, 2015 by catrox14

[7kstar]

I'd be for Metatron being the big bad and using disguise and etc to try to get what he wants.

 

Metatron is the one that loves to trick everyone...so if Metatron was Death...you've got all you need to put this in place.  So that's my story and I'm sticking with it, even if I have to go to fanfiction to make it a reality.

[catrox14]

I'd be for Metatron being the big bad and using disguise and etc to try to get what he wants.

 

Metatron is the one that loves to trick everyone...so if Metatron was Death...you've got all you need to put this in place.  So that's my story and I'm sticking with it, even if I have to go to fanfiction to make it a reality.

 

I'm on this train as well. 

[catrox14]

Uh...so Mike Carpenter who is Jared's stunt double just posted this:

The downside of stunts #supernatural #stunts #cars #chiropractor #warnerbros #sendit https://instagram.com/p/66Jo2PMfys/

 

This means that Sam gets hit by a car.....right? 0_0 /chews fingernails

 

Or wait, is this current or from that episode when Sam is losing his marbles in s7?

Edited August 28, 2015 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

Ooch!

 

I'd have to watch the S7 episode again to be sure, but that doesn't strike me as being the same angle as The Born Again Identity. Hmmm?

[mertensia]

I don't think Sam was hit by a black sports car in The Born Again Identity; I think it was a sedan.

[SueB]

Uh...so Mike Carpenter who is Jared's stunt double just posted this:

 

This means that Sam gets hit by a car.....right? 0_0 /chews fingernails

 

Or wait, is this current or from that episode when Sam is losing his marbles in s7?

Just checked. It's Born Again Identity. Clothing, car, train tracks, white pole, Sam's body angle.... all the same.

[AwesomO4000]

I wonder why it's being posted now?

[SueB]

No clue. Does seem odd.

We should get more spoilers out of VanCon this week.

Edited August 28, 2015 by SueB

[SueB]

IGN Comic Con videos not previously released. Nothing new IMO, maybe a bit of nuances depending on your POV

http://www.thewinchesterfamilybusiness.com/spoilers/19422-more-spoilery-tidbits-for-supernatural-season-eleven

[catrox14]

So Jensen has mentioned a couple of times where did the Mark go?

 

I am so hoping it resurrected Cain.  Man, that would make me really happy.  Of course, he's so busy with Galavant it's unlikely. BUT you never know.  Maybe the Mark went into Crowley or Rowena or Cas....

 

or Lucifer in the Cage...or John.....

[7kstar]

I would love if Cain came back...So I want to know where did it go too...

 

I hope they have an idea and not just dropped it, leaving another long list of unanswered questions.

 

I also want to know where in the hell is John or Mary?

[catrox14]

Or Mary...

 

Can I just say that one thing that does chap my hide is that the boys always talk about needing John, but don't they need Mary too? Like maybe she would help them as much as John....

[Omegamom]

Eh, I can forgive that, actually. They grew up with John being their dad, teacher, hunting mentor, and Mary was a hazy distant memory for Dean, and only known through stories for Sam. A few days of interacting with young Mary in her capacity as a Hunter wouldn't erase that automatic trust-dad-he's-the-expert response on the part of the boys.

[catrox14]

Oh I definitely agree that from a practical hunting side etc that the boys would benefit. I've always taken it that it was more that they needed John's emotional help too which YIKES! I think Mary could offer something from a hunter and mother/emotional perspective too.

[rue721]

Oh I definitely agree that from a practical hunting side etc that the boys would benefit. I've always taken it that it was more that they needed John's emotional help too which YIKES! I think Mary could offer something from a hunter and mother/emotional perspective too.

 

Wait, why YIKES? I mean, he was kind of off the wall, but it seems like he really did love them.

 

I think that they don't really know how Mary could be there for them or help them, because they don't really know her. I don't think it's true that "you can't miss what you've never had." Of course you can miss it! But ime you miss it in a different way. I think with Mary, it's more about missing what might have been. Which doesn't really change over time. With John, I think it's more specific and tbh more complicated.

 

Also, in In the Beginning, Mary made that big point about how she would never want to see her kids become hunters and wanted out of that life herself. With John, they don't have to be ashamed of their life because he's the one who set them on it. But that's maybe not true of Mary.

 

Personally, I would LOVE if Mary (esp. Young!Mary) were suddenly added to the cast. LOL it would shake things up SO. MUCH.

 

Also, Dean would have to suck it up and not angst out so much then. He'd have to be on better behavior :P

[catrox14]

Well, I say YIKES! because John was just as fucked up as anyone and yes it's understandable and I'm sure he did love the boys tried to protect them but John left Dean hanging in the wind when Dean was BEGGING him over the phone for help in s1. And put an unnecessary burder of responsibility on to a child of 9 which fucked up Dean for like pretty much the rest of Dean's life...and told Dean he'd have to Kill Sam or Save Him.  That's just ugh. 

 

I think he did love the boys though. 

 

I would like to see John come back mostly so Dean can have some closure.  Sam IMO did that when he and John had the convo about how they were really far more alike than not. 

 

Dean might not have grown up with Mary but he experienced seeing her burn alive in their home, which IMO screwed him up forever.  His happiest memories were of Mary, not John.  And then his happiest memories were used against him by the djinn or by Zachariah or Eve when killer her whilst she was the avatar for Mary.  That's pretty fucked up IMO.

 

So yeah, I'd like to see some Mary stuff

 

A

lso, Dean would have to suck it up and not angst out so much then. He'd have to be on better behavior :P

 

  

Huh? You really think Mary would tell Dean to suck it up? I can't see her doing that.  Seeing her kids become hunters is maybe something she SHOULD know about now.  It's the truth of what John did.  It wasn't what she wanted but it happened and now she has two damaged sons because of both her and John. 

 

Mary wasn't perfect but she did give Dean love and protection as best she could in spite of her terrible choice. 

 

(NO I am not projecting here about my own Mom's recent passing LOL. I've thought about this with Dean and Mary for a long time)

Edited August 29, 2015 by catrox14

[rue721]

You really think Mary would tell Dean to suck it up? I can't see her doing that.  Seeing her kids become hunters is maybe something she SHOULD know about now.  It's the truth of what John did.  It wasn't what she wanted but it happened and now she has two damaged sons because of both her and John.

 

I don't think she would tell him that or even want it particularly, but I would figure he'd want to pull himself together and would be on his best behavior in front of her of his own accord, because he would want her to be happy and proud of him.

 

It was already a long shot that she could be happy or proud of her sons, anyway, since they're the one thing she wanted them to never be. No need to make that long shot even longer by looking like a gigantic miserable mess right in front of her!

 

Anyway, I definitely don't think they'd want her to see them as "damaged"!

 

Well, I say YIKES! because John was just as fucked up as anyone and yes it's understandable and I'm sure he did love the boys tried to protect them but John left Dean hanging in the wind when Dean was BEGGING him over the phone for help in s1. And put an unnecessary burder of responsibility on to a child of 9 which fucked up Dean for like pretty much the rest of Dean's life...and told Dean he'd have to Kill Sam or Save Him.  That's just ugh.

 

Idk, I think it's all relative. To me, John seems like he really loved his kids and busted his ass for them, even though he was out of his depth. It's the social isolation and instability of his lifestyle that always weirded me out and made me think he was nuts. But then, I work ~6-12 hours/day, 6 days/wk in hospitality (and enjoy it!). Of course I would be aghast at John choosing to be a loner and practically forcing his kids to live like loners, too. LOL.

Edited August 29, 2015 by rue721

[mertensia]

John is an excellent example of a parent who thinks they know their kids but does not. I honestly don't know how he would react to everything and to what they are like now. I wonder, too, at how the boys would handle John after the initial happiness of seeing him again.

[Demented Daisy]

I hope the Mark is well and truly gone.  That part of the story has run its course, IMO.  

 

If they decide that the way to banish the Darkness is for someone to take the Mark (again), then I will be ridiculously annoyed.  If they use the same lock and key, then everything that happened after Dean refused to share the Mark will have been a complete waste of time.

[DittyDotDot]

I'd be sorely disappointed if Cain suddenly appeared with the Mark. I'd love to see Cain return, but there are plenty of other ways to do that with this show: dreams, alternate realities, visions, flashbacks...