Spoilers With Speculation

[SueB]

What would the tear have been from? Do you think Jensen was originally thinking that Dean should have one and then changed his mind, or was he just that into the scene and Jared made him cry? ; )

He was just into the scene and it would have been natural for Dean to cry. BUT that would have given away the "twist", so he told himself to "button it up" and redid the take.  He didn't say it would be out of character for Dean at that moment, just that he knew he couldn't reveal that he was effected.  He said that if we saw a tear, then we would know Sam wasn't going to die.  

 

SueB commentary: Jensen and Jared have both said they rarely ask for another take. I think Singer (director) followed Jensen's lead on this.  

I don't think they can finish curing Crowley because Sam would drop dead because the trials are still incomplete. Them not finishing curing Crowley was to stop the trials because it was going to kill Sam. So I don't see how they can do that now.

 

That's really interesting. I wonder why this one was so different.

I think it was different because this really covered a large territory. There's two on the east coast (New Jersey & DC). Two in the middle: Chicago & Dallas. Then Vancouver, Los Angeles, Los Vegas are all West Coast.  But while East & West coasters may consider middle-America fly over states, there's a large number of people there and the show kinda speaks to that culture.

I bet they get a similar newbie crowd in Denver (first time they are going there this year).

Edited August 25, 2015 by SueB

[catrox14]

I dunno, I'm a Colorado raised girl and go back there like ALL the time. I was there for 6 months with my Mom. I don't think the crowd will be as emotional as that. I mean these aren't the Denver Broncos. I'm not even kidding about that. If it was John Elway and Peyton Manning they would go batcrap crazy.  Plus many might be stoned. (kidding).  I think they'll be really appreciative that the boys came but I think it will be different.  You know never know though, I could be totally wrong.  I was actually going to go to that one if I was in Denver then but I'm back here now so I'm not.

[AwesomO4000]

I dunno, I'm a Colorado raised girl and go back there like ALL the time. I was there for 6 months with my Mom. I don't think the crowd will be as emotional as that. I mean these aren't the Denver Broncos. I'm not even kidding about that. If it was John Elway and Peyton Manning they would go batcrap crazy.

 

Well, it would be John Elway, so yeah. Hee. I'm not from the area, or ever even lived there, but the Broncos were my team for years, because I liked the way John Elway played. When they finally won the Superbowl, I was in heaven. I haven't warmed as much to Peyton yet... he's not John Elway.

 

I'm not the swooning type, anyway (and those days would be long over.) I think I only had one sort of moment like that about 12 years ago when I met James Marsters, but I was still able to hold it together and carry on a short conversation... now remembering all the details of that conversation was another thing. I remembered most, but unfortunately forgot a pivotal bit of minutia or two that would've made my story that much better. I was distracted by the pretty... and the buffer than expected arms. But he was really nice and knew how to talk to people to make them feel at ease.

[catrox14]

Heh, being a Bronco fan, you'll appreciate this.

 

Here in San Diego, I went to a country bar during my line dancing phase because my buddy was singing in a contest that night and he begged me to come. So I did. It was a monday night. Place was empty. No one came for the contest. So I'm sitting there complaining to my boyfriend's friend (not the singing buddy) about how my boyfriend was being an ass. Anyway I'm sitting by the entrance and these people come in wearing Bronco gear. I was like oh that's cool.  Then about 30 minutes later, this guy walks in and I'm like huh he's  pretty good looking but I thought he looks like someone but I couldn't quite place it. Then I kind of side eyed him again. And was like that guy totally looks like John Elway. Then this other guy walks in...HUGE dude. LIKE HUGE and I thought that guy looks like a Bronco. I look back over at the other guy and I was like HOLY SHIT, That's John Elway.

 

Yup. John Elway, Gary Kubiak, that asshole lineman that was all roided up, Mike Shanahan, and a few others were in this bar, not 5 feet from me during Super Bowl week.  I started freaking out and hitting my friend on the arm and saying over and over, "Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. That's John Elway. " My friend was all "STOP HITTING ME and go talk to him"

 

And was all, "NOOOOOOOOO. I could never...no...you think? NOOOOO....Oh gods. I may never see him again...but N OOOOOOO I couldn't".  Finally the bartender comes over and says Here is a napkin and a fucking pen. Now go get his autograph".  So I did.  I have John Elway and Gary Kubiak's autographs on a napkin. 

 

But I lost my shit for sure LOL.  PS MIke Shanahan was a dick.

[DittyDotDot]

- Baby episode (warning LOTs of spoilers...not everything they said will make the final cut..just filming spoilers):  They JUST finished filming the Baby episode and there were a lot of spoilers about it.  SueB commentary: although not explicitly stated, the appears to be a J2-only episode.  Jensen is in EVERY single scene.  He was pretty exhausted after filming back to back for eight days. He said Jared was not always in the car so he got a little more rest.  As I said on twitter, the episode is from Baby's POV but Baby is not personified.  They worked with #3 (car) a lot as they had to take out windows and other items for cameras.  He DID do the 180 himself.  He said because it wasn't #1, the car he's used to driving, it took three takes.  The first time he over rotated. I can't remember what happened the second time but they got it on the third take. Sue B commentary: I'm thinking if the insurance guys would have been watching, they would have had kittens.   The fight scene in the back was brutal and it was with TWO others (SueB commentary: so there goes my sexy-times attempt theory).  Jensen got banged up a bit.  Speaking of banged up, Jared recently had a muscle pull in his back and so he had to be careful getting in an out of the car.  He's better now but those long legs and the Impala can be a challenge.  The Impala, he said, is a heckuva lot better than most.  Jensen mentioned that normally in an episode they'll do some exposition in the bunker, cut the scene, and next thing you see is them in their Fed suits in Oregon or someplace.  He said this episode sort of takes off AFTER they were supposed to cut the scene.  Instead there's literally moments of dead silence as they are driving.  Jared mentioned a scene where they are sleeping in the car and he's in the backseat.  He had a hard time figuring out what to do with his legs. As seen in the video of their Main Panel, they started off joking around with Sam noisily slurping a smoothie and somehow the crew just kept going with it.  Boys.  Seriously...BOYS.  

 

Ahh, so it's Baby AND Dean get stolen? Interesting. Looking forward to entire scenes with no dialogue...seriously, I'm not kidding or being snarky. I'm afraid I'm setting expectations for this episode that just can't be met.

 

 

- Mark said that it was Fergus who had Mommy issues, not Crowley.  He also said to pay attention to what happened to Crowley's eyes when he was 'dying' (recall they turned all red).  He said that it is in Crowley's best interest to NOT let Fergus' personality come thru.  SueB commentary: He kept talking about Crowley and Fergus as if they were two entities....interestingly enough... Other bits: Mark insisted Crowley was dead. I told him flat out nobody believes him.  Crowley may be "killed" but 'he' somehow comes right back.  SueB commentary: having an appreciation for Mark's snarkiness...I think Cas does appear to kill Crowley but SOMETHING happens to him in EP2 and "Crowley" or "Fergus" or some weird duality that is in the body we know as Mark is still on the show.

 

Mark's continuing insistence that Crowley is dead just solidifies my belief that Crowley becomes Death, in some way. I still haven't wrapped my head around how that could be, but I am looking forward to something new for Crowley to do.

 

Really interesting! I hadn't thought of Crowley as some kind of Crowley/Fergus duality. The duality thing doesn't really make sense to me because of the explanation that demons are just human souls that have been "twisted" through torture, though. I mean, like when Dean was a demon -- he wasn't Dean AND a demon, the demon WAS Dean. So how could Crowley and Fergus be two separate people? (I'm assuming that Crowley is "the demon" and Fergus is "the human"). It also didn't seem like Mark Sheppard was trying to play two different characters up until now. So maybe Crowley gets separated into "Crowley" and/or "Fergus" during the fight with Cas (or in the early episodes of S11)?

 

Interesting. I assumed it was just an actor thing. Like Crowley thinks of himself as something different after he became a demon...even changed his name. I'm not sure it's that Mark is saying they are literally two separate entities, but Crowley wouldn't want to think of himself as that weak little human anymore. I wonder if this is just Mark's take on it to help him play the part? But, it would be interesting to see Crowley split in two. 

 

I don't think they can finish curing Crowley because Sam would drop dead because the trials are still incomplete. Them not finishing curing Crowley was to stop the trials because it was going to kill Sam. So I don't see how they can do that now.

 

Wouldn't Sam would only drop dead if he said the Enochian words that finish the trial? As far as I understood, he could cure a thousand Crowleys and not finish the last trial unless he said the words.

 

What would the tear have been from? Do you think Jensen was originally thinking that Dean should have one and then changed his mind, or was he just that into the scene and Jared made him cry? ; )

 

Awww, Jared made Jensen cry.  ;)

[catrox14]

 

Wouldn't Sam would only drop dead if he said the Enochian words that finish the trial? As far as I understood, he could cure a thousand Crowleys and not finish the last trial unless he said the words.

 

I thought the Enochian words had to be used no matter which demon they were curing but Sam's specialness with his blood being purified is what made it capable of curing Crowley and closing the gates of Hell.

 

I thought the reason Sam didn't use his own blood to cure Dean was because he didn't want to risk dying himself.  But then I don't think there is a shred of continuity with the demon cure at all so who knows.

[DittyDotDot]

I guess I was speaking to Kevin saying there were Enochian words one had to speak after each task to finish each trial.

 

From the Trial and Error transcript:
 

SAM: Okay, okay. So, what does this mean? What are we looking at?

KEVIN: It's a spell.

DEAN: And?
KEVIN: And it's just a few words of Enochian, but...

DEAN: Oh, here we go.

KEVIN: ...the spell has to be spoken after you finish each of the three trials.

 

To me, without the words, the spell wouldn't work. So, in theory, Sam could cure Crowley and never complete the spell because it wasn't the act of curing a demon only that completed the trial.

[SueB]

I guess I was speaking to Kevin saying there were Enochian words one had to speak after each task to finish each trial.

 

From the Trial and Error transcript:

 

 

To me, without the words, the spell wouldn't work. So, in theory, Sam could cure Crowley and never complete the spell because it wasn't the act of curing a demon only that completed the trial.

IA.  And really, independent of Sam's death -- they need to fix one problem at a time.

[MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND]

Sometimes I wonder if the questions like "who do you like to work with the best" are just baiting questions to start tumblr wars..

 

I thought most of the questions were good.

 

I am disappointed that the Mark is the thing that made Dean let down his guard or be more like fuck y'all to a degree.Or to be...HAPPY for like 5 freaking seconds.  I mean fuck that.

 

Lord knows, I adore Jensen/Dean but that is just blech writing or probably more like lack of writing so he's filling in the gaps like he does.

 

Jeebus, that's awful to put Dean through that ringer for TWO FUCKING YEARS and he doesn't get anything good out of it? LIKE at all?  No personal growth? No sense of peace or self-acceptance? I don't get it :(. No sense that he can acknowledge that he's a nerd at heart and a badass too? Or that he can just be who he is without being ashamed of himself or less self-loathing. Man. I don't know what to make of that...:(

Oh Jensen you are so sneaky! So open Dean was really only MOC Dean-how sad! My husband and I commented how refreshing Deans openness was last season!

Great questions Sue!

[Aeryn13]

Hm, I don`t remember particularly noticing Dean being much more open last Season. He struck me as the more or less usual mixture of being open and guarded. He always has been repressing his emotions till they come out in bursts. 

 

Demon!Dean was for once free of the burden of responsibility and wanted nothing more than hedonism. Which is why he first went along with Crowley which gave Crowley the illusion he ever had any control. But the second Crowley made clear he had bigger plans than hedonism, Demon!Dean deboarded that train in a nanosecond. And then MOC!Dean was fighting the agression and warrior instincts just like before but how was he really more open? I just didn`t get that from the character. So if it`s not continuing, presumably I won`t even notice.

 

I would just hope he feels less low and hates himself less. And that he himself relaizes there is a very big distinction between "warrior" and "killer". Also that he gets that message reinforced from outside influences. I like him being a badass and the one who makes the hard choices, if only he could be more at peace with that part of himself and see the good in it. 

 

Also, I don`t particularly care for him sharing and leaning on others because whenever he tries that, it kinda puts a gigantic target on his back to be mocked and belittled later. As far as accepting help goes, if it`s more help like I saw in Season 10 which I would describe at best as well-intentioned but really clumsily executed, I`m fine with him going things alone in terms of what he needs.   

[MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND]

Hm, I don`t remember particularly noticing Dean being much more open last Season. He struck me as the more or less usual mixture of being open and guarded. He always has been repressing his emotions till they come out in bursts. 

 

Demon!Dean was for once free of the burden of responsibility and wanted nothing more than hedonism. Which is why he first went along with Crowley which gave Crowley the illusion he ever had any control. But the second Crowley made clear he had bigger plans than hedonism, Demon!Dean deboarded that train in a nanosecond. And then MOC!Dean was fighting the agression and warrior instincts just like before but how was he really more open? I just didn`t get that from the character. So if it`s not continuing, presumably I won`t even notice.

 

I would just hope he feels less low and hates himself less. And that he himself relaizes there is a very big distinction between "warrior" and "killer". Also that he gets that message reinforced from outside influences. I like him being a badass and the one who makes the hard choices, if only he could be more at peace with that part of himself and see the good in it. 

 

Also, I don`t particularly care for him sharing and leaning on others because whenever he tries that, it kinda puts a gigantic target on his back to be mocked and belittled later. As far as accepting help goes, if it`s more help like I saw in Season 10 which I would describe at best as well-intentioned but really clumsily executed, I`m fine with him going things alone in terms of what he needs.   

He told Sam about Rowena trying to kill him, about Crowley telling him the MOC is a curse, he immediately told him the BOTD was talking to him...all things that we felt in the past he would have waited to open up about until it was too late.

[SueB]

He told Sam about Rowena trying to kill him, about Crowley telling him the MOC is a curse, he immediately told him the BOTD was talking to him...all things that we felt in the past he would have waited to open up about until it was too late.

This. 

 

And at the end of the day, I think that what Jensen keeps repeating (Sam and Dean on the same page) will continue some of the more openness, at least about case-related stuff.  How he's feeling? Yeah, I could see the old "I'm fine, lay off." coming back. 

 

Really, they just should have let me have about another 30 mins alone to interrogate him.... I'm sure I could have gotten some clarity. 

[Aeryn13]

 

He told Sam about Rowena trying to kill him, about Crowley telling him the MOC is a curse, he immediately told him the BOTD was talking to him...all things that we felt in the past he would have waited to open up about until it was too late.

 

Since Dean rarely had mytharc relevance in the past, he rarely had secrets like that to share, I think. When he was resurrected in Lazarus Rising, he immdiately tried to contact Sam and/or Bobby. He didn`t keep his first encounter with Cas a secret back then either. He also planned to tell Sam right away about the angelic possession but Gadreel put an immediate ix-nay on it.

 

Rowena trying to kill him, I don`t think Dean would have ever made a big secret out of. Him being invulnerable to her spells is a strategic info he would have shared. And there is no character reason for him to be ashamed of it or want to spare/protect Sam/Cas so I saw that as a no-brainer. Telling them the BOTD was calling to him was also strategic information, especially one he used to make his point with. Namely`: don`t use the book, it`s evil. So, I see that as not unusual either.

 

What Crowley told him about the curse, I could see going either way. That it readily comes out in a self-loathing: "see, I am damned" manner or "keep away from me, I`m poison"  wouldn`t strike me as out of character.

 

So none of the instances when he shared something is really stuff I found particularly uncharacteristic. If he had secrets like Dad`s "save or kill" order and immediately blubbered them out, that would have made me raise an eyebrow. 

[catrox14]

I felt like where Dean was more open was how he was feeling about his situation.  Meaning he did tell Sam he was going to fight it until he couldn't when Sam was all Dude you're giving up, when in reality Dean was not giving up he just wanted time to not think about for awhile. Which is not at all him being in denial. He just needed to figure out how to live with it, which is what Sam had been wanting him to do. When Taylor Swift came on the radio he admitted to liking it well enough when before he would not have. IMO. like when he couldn't admit to liking Asa and mouthed the lyrics when Sam mocked him. Or the confessional scene where Dean said he wants to experience things differently or for the first time. That was such a wonderful scene and then saying it was just the Mark talking and not Dean being positively altered in a way.

BOO I say. BOO! I don't like that like AT ALL.

 

Maybe someone at VanCon will press the issue with Jensen et al.

[Aeryn13]

 

 

Or the confessional scene where Dean said he wants to experience things differently or for the first time. That was such a wonderful scene and then saying it was just the Mark talking and not Dean being positively altered in a way.

BOO I say. BOO! I don't like that like AT ALL.

 

I think the confessional scene was in no way different than say Season 2 Dean in the Wishwerse standing at John`s grave and asking why they have to be some kind of heroes. 

 

So, even Jensen saying this paritcular scene was MOC-inspired, I don`t think at all that means scenes of that nature won`t be happening in the future. Dean won`t talk to Sam or Cas that way but a random third party? Totally. 

 

But I don`t think it will mean change either way. He will voice feelings in such a manner but he will eihter not be allowed or allow himself to act on them. Mark or no Mark, that has never changed.  

[DittyDotDot]

IMO, Dean has never been good at keeping secrets from people he cares about. For all his dislike of the self-help-yoga crap, I think he's usually very open. He seems to guard himself with people he doesn't know, but with Sam, Bobby, John, Cass and so on, I think it makes him squirrelly (heh) to not be open and honest. Other than Gadreel and while he was under the influence of the MoC, that is.

[catrox14]

 

I think the confessional scene was in no way different than say Season 2 Dean in the Wishwerse standing at John`s grave and asking why they have to be some kind of heroes.

 

Dean wasn't questioning his life as a hunter here, but he admitted he really didn't want to die, not yet anyway was a pretty big deal IMO. This was our Dean influenced by the MoC but he was restored as of Soul Survivor apparently so it was Dean. IMO it's totally different. This was Dean. Not hallucinating!Dean or wish!Dean. There was nothing leading up to this that said anything Dean said or did whilst bearing the Mark was all because of the Mark. By that reasoning, anything good or bad. Any choices Dean made can all be put under "The Mark made me do it"? Dean resisting the Mark was because of the Mark too?

 

They've got a lot of explaining to do for me to understand what the point of the MoC if it didn't/doesn't change Dean in some meaningful way either better or worse. YMMV

[SueB]

They've got a lot of explaining to do for me to understand what the point of the MoC if it didn't/doesn't change Dean in some meaningful way either better or worse. YMMV

I'm with you.  I couldn't look at the man and say "You're Wrong!"...because...nope.  But I'm hoping the writers write him more open.  He said thus far he hadn't seen any indication that he was anything other than regular Dean. 

Edited August 26, 2015 by SueB

[DittyDotDot]

I forgot to mention earlier, SueB, thanks for the spoilers...damn show has us so starved for any information we've taken to discussing how they would play those tapes all these years later.

 

Also, you make for a cute hamster! ;)

[SueB]

My pleasure... you know if I was going to go to a convention, I HAD to come home with something for this thread.  

[catrox14]

I'm with you.  I couldn't look at the man and say "You're Wrong!"...because...nope.  But I'm hoping the writers write him more open.  He said thus far he hadn't seen any indication that he was anything other than regular Dean. 

 

Godsdammit. That pisses me off.  So what Dean is going to go back to being self-loathing and snarky? I mean that was all well and good until you know he went to Hell and back and then became a godsdamn demon, killed what 8 people via the MoC and was the dam to the Darkness. Surely, this HAS to change him in some way. NOT to mention that he fucking killed Death! C'mon show!

 

Did you get the sense that Jensen was okay with that or annoyed about it or what?

[7kstar]

I really wish they would give something for Dean.  Jensen is a strong actor because he looks for the strongest open choice, the one that gives him the most to play.

 

He is also so professional, unless the storyline was something he really hated, you would barely see it.  He gives hints but doesn't come out and say more than I'm so glad the Mark is done.  I think Dean desperate to fight the battle alone with no one he can talk to is over at least for now.

 

But we need to the see the consequences even if it is just Dean deciding the hell with it, go back to pretending everything is fine because it's what works for the most part. 

 

Maybe it's the guy thing, they don't like to discuss or reflect upon their feelings.  Ignore it and it will go away, but I really wish they would give us something to get excited about.  Otherwise what's the big deal about the Darkness.  So she shows up for 3 or 5 eps, does some damage, not too many people left to kill which at this point might the thing that totally turns me off this show.  So I hope they finally have gotten done with this, as it's been done to death, literally.

 

Make Dean have to search for the replacement of Death.  Have the boys on the same page to do damage control even if it means they might disappear into nothing.  This at least would create the hero aspect of their characters and help to redeem them.

 

I still hope that Dean believes in his heart it was Death but the trick's on him and it wasn't.  But it looks like it is getting harder and harder...unless the Joke is on us and Jensen is trolling us but good.  He can keep a secret...Hoping for once he is.  :)

 

I know the bubble is bursting but don't do it yet...

[Aeryn13]

 

He said thus far he hadn't seen any indication that he was anything other than regular Dean.

 

I  take that to mean no powers, no supernatural thing, including no visions or premonitions etc, in short no storyline. Regular!Dean is the guy who drives special!Sam around. I find that in itself so tiresome, I could care less if he is open or not. Besides, what would he have to share? Sam will be the one with the supernatural connection again so he would have a secret to keep. Or not. Remains to be seen. 

[DittyDotDot]

Godsdammit. That pisses me off.  So what Dean is going to go back to being self-loathing and snarky? I mean that was all well and good until you know he went to Hell and back and then became a godsdamn demon, killed what 8 people via the MoC and was the dam to the Darkness. Surely, this HAS to change him in some way. NOT to mention that he fucking killed Death! C'mon show!

 

Did you get the sense that Jensen was okay with that or annoyed about it or what?

 

This could just be an interpretation thing, catrox. I've been getting the feeling Jensen is saying there's nothing supernatural about Dean this season--hence, he's just Dean--but that doesn't mean he won't be somewhat changed by what happened the previous season. It is Supernatural, after all, and I doubt there'd not be some angsting going on, of some sort. 

 

However, if we go by Jensen's comments at Comic Con, he said he's tired of playing self-loathing and he hopes the writers are tired of writing it. So, maybe it'll be kept to a minimum this year? Maybe it'll be more of who Dean was before he started deciding everything wrong in the world was his fault after he was broken in Hell? Perhaps the change in Dean will be that he realized not everything is his fault? That would be nice. Although, I'll have to stop calling him a big ball o' guilt, if that's the case. 

[Demented Daisy]

This could just be an interpretation thing, catrox. I've been getting the feeling Jensen is saying there's nothing supernatural about Dean this season--hence, he's just Dean--but that doesn't mean he won't be somewhat changed by what happened the previous season. It is Supernatural, after all, and I doubt there'd not be some angsting going on, of some sort. 

 

However, if we go by Jensen's comments at Comic Con, he said he's tired of playing self-loathing and he hopes the writers are tired of writing it. So, maybe it'll be kept to a minimum this year? Maybe it'll be more of who Dean was before he started deciding everything wrong in the world was his fault after he was broken in Hell? Perhaps the change in Dean will be that he realized not everything is his fault? That would be nice. Although, I'll have to stop calling him a big ball o' guilt, if that's the case. 

 

Yes, it would be nice.  Except that, you know, it is actually his fault, this time.  *sigh*  Maybe the first scene of the gang back together will be:

 

Dean:  I'm sorry

Sam:  Yeah, me too.

Cas:  I screwed up.

Crowley:  What a mess.

Rowena:  Can we all agree that we each had a part in this, stop wallowing in misery, get off our jacksies, and do something about it?

 

Okay, so Rowena's not big on the Cockney slang, but it gets the message across.  ;-)

[DittyDotDot]

Crazy, evil witch for the win!

 

Wait, but, this is Supernatural...they can't do stuff and solve stuff and move on. They must always be forever ensconced in a cycle of strife! Always! ;)

[mertensia]

I think the Darkness should inhabit the hamster.

Then it would go after Rowena and she'd have to pull a Meg.

[SueB]

Godsdammit. That pisses me off.  So what Dean is going to go back to being self-loathing and snarky? I mean that was all well and good until you know he went to Hell and back and then became a godsdamn demon, killed what 8 people via the MoC and was the dam to the Darkness. Surely, this HAS to change him in some way. NOT to mention that he fucking killed Death! C'mon show!

 

Did you get the sense that Jensen was okay with that or annoyed about it or what?

 

He literally used the words "Control Alt Delete" series reset (not just Demon Dean).  So, I'm going to say - he's back into Han Solo mode.  Confident, snarky, in synch with his brother and dealing with bad guys.  And Jensen is delighted with this.  Which, to some extent, makes him an unreliable witness.  This is what he wants.  He'd much rather have an action scene than an angsty scene.  So...I think self-loathing is actually OFF the table.  At least until the writers force him into a scene (so far they clearly havent').  

 

Jared said they address what they've done in the first few episodes (I'm betting EP1 or EP3).  They recognize that it has to be about doing good, saving people.  They'll clean up this mess and get back on original mission.  

 

I  take that to mean no powers, no supernatural thing, including no visions or premonitions etc, in short no storyline. Regular!Dean is the guy who drives special!Sam around. I find that in itself so tiresome, I could care less if he is open or not. Besides, what would he have to share? Sam will be the one with the supernatural connection again so he would have a secret to keep. Or not. Remains to be seen. 

Neither has "supernatural powers". That's been made very clear.  And yes, there's a storyline for both.  Saving people, hunting things... the family business.  They've got yet another Apocalypse-class problem to solve but neither brother needs "taking care of".  As far as I can tell they dispense with the guilt right away by saying "shit happened, we're going to do better" and moving on.  

 

Finally, I don't think the writers are going to ignore what has happened over the last 10 years.  But both of the main leads have given the vibe that there's no wallowing.  Which is a good thing.  Mark BARELY talks about what is going on in Supernatural on ANY given day and Misha didn't talk much about it either.  It was J2 who were talking story and they both seem really positive.

 

Aeryn, I forgot to mention this but Jared did acknowledge that his favorite "altered" Sam was the demon blood Sam because he was powerful.  Jared joked that was not a positive quality (to want power) but said there was something cool about being able to point your hand at a huge stunt guy (who could wipe the floor with you) and have them just drop.  

 

But there was clear indications that neither has anything "special" about them.  They are still dealing with the supernatural but neither has "chosen one" status.  So... if only a 'chosen one' has a storyline in your mind...then neither does.  Maybe Crowley... he's got something weird going on.  But it isn't a savior thing.  

[Aeryn13]

 

Neither has "supernatural powers". That's been made very clear.

 

Everyone said at Comic Con that Sam will have visions/premonitions/strange memories not his own that Sam thinks come from a higher power and may help deal with the Darkness. Dabb specifically said a cool Sam storyline started in Season 2 that harkens back to previous things with Sam in a new direction (maybe the visions thing, maybe the connection to Lucifer thing, I`m undecided about that).

 

This IS a supernatural storyline connected to the main plot for me. And it`s solely Sam-centric. It can very easily become Chosen One, the set-up already is there. Nothing of that kind was said for Dean. Yeah, we may get how Dean feels about Sam`s newest visions but I really don`t care about that. At all. 

[DittyDotDot]

I asked this before, but can someone point me in the right direction...when was it specifically mentioned that Sam would have visions. I didn't watch all the round table interviews, but the only mention of visions I heard was from Jensen in response to what kind of connection Dean would have to the Darkness. Since it hasn't been mentioned since Comic Con, and I never saw it myself, I'm wondering if it's not really a story arc as much as something contained in one episode?

[Wynne88]

Aeryn13, ymmv (actually I know they do), but I'm not sure why the guy 'seeing' premonitions or whatever is so much more 'special' than the guy who does something about them.  It's not like Sam ever had any control over what he saw; he was basically a TV screen with only one channel.  Dean has consistently been an action hero, leaping in to save the day every time Sam is being strangled or knocked out (which has happened way too often in my book).  I know that Sam has had one or two big wins, but although I know you feel differently, I personally don't equate that to hundreds of other heroic moments.  I'd be delighted if Dean was the one getting the super special messages and Sam, for once, got to use his size and muscles to physically save Dean's ass every episode.

[Aeryn13]

Jared`s rounttable interviews were the most specific in talking about Sam`s visions. Dabb as well, he definitely called it a storyline. Carver was vague and bland as always. 

Edited August 26, 2015 by Aeryn13

[DittyDotDot]

Well, that's weird. I watched almost all of Dabb's and some of Jared's--skipped all of Carver's as he usually just irritates me--and I don't recall it being mentioned once by either of them. I only know about it because it's been mentioned here.

 

Can someone provide a link? 

Edited August 26, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[SueB]

Well, that's weird. I watched almost all of Dabb's and some of Jared's--skipped all of Carver's as he usually just irritates me--and I don't recall it being mentioned once by either of them. I only know about it because it's been mentioned here.

 

Can someone provide a link? 

Most of the video links are defunct now.  But here's a link to an article that talks about it:

http://nerdreactor.com/2015/07/17/sdcc-2015-supernatural/

 

My take: Sam starts praying and gets a vision.  Since Dean is more likely to punch God in the face rather than pray to Him, I'm not surprised it's Sam who calls out to Him.  

[Demented Daisy]

 

30 second mark.

[catrox14]

SueB, thanks for that followup. 

 

DittyDotDot, yes I know Jensen said neither brother was going to have the demon-blood, or MoC to alter themselves. I was speaking more towards the after effects of Dean's experience on Dean.

 

Sam was altered forever by his experiences with being a Chosen kid and having demon blood stuff and letting Lucifer out of his cage. He sought to right the world that he had made in s5. And again in s6. And then again with the trials and his whole feeling dirty thing and being purified etc and being possessed by an angel. Those events changed Sam a lot and not just temporarily. And we saw it change him.

 

I know Jensen said at one of the recent cons that he's happy being the guy that drives the Impala and bails Sam out of trouble and my thought at that time, was that Jensen was throwing a bit of shade because the MoC and demon!Dean storyline amounted to a hill of piled up dead bodies and nothing more to this point. I will be sorely disappointed if we don't have something beyond a smidgen of dialogue about what everything Dean went through that shows it changed Dean and will continue to affect and change him further. 

 

As to the ctrl-alt-del from Jensen, I really hope that just means they are rebooting to drive a plot line and that it it doesn't wipe out 9.5 years of character growth for Dean Winchester.  I really did not like Dean in the pilot or Wendigo. I did start to like him much more in Dead in the Water and was grateful that Jensen gave Dean more nuance and depth than Han Solo ever had so I'm rather disappointed with that news.  I know he said he was tired of playing the guilt-ridden, weight of the world Dean which is fine, but I don't want Dean to become this unlayered, one-dimensional sidekick character that he was in the early part of s1. 

 

Maybe Jensen will play it sublty like he usually does but I gotta say, having an early s1 Dean....not what I want to see again. :(.

Edited August 26, 2015 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

Thanks SueB and Demented Daisy.

 

I guess I'm not reading it as a big supernatural storyline for the season. Sounds like, to me, it might be contained within one or maybe two episodes. I'm thinking they'll start in whatever episode they introduce Amarra. But, I'm not so sure that Dean won't be having visions too because I distinctly recall Jensen saying there were visions some sort in response to Dean's connection to the darkness, too. I'm also assuming the visions will not really be from God, but just Sam (and maybe Dean) thinking they are at first. Or, perhaps they'll do Sam hopes they are from God/Dean doesn't think God would give a crap--two sides of the same coin thing--they used to do so very well?

 

Have I mentioned how much I'm looking forward to no one being chosen, but instead them being a united front? ;)

Edited August 26, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[rue721]

Jared mentions "dreams" in that clip, too. I get the feeling that The Darkness is giving them nightmares and invading their dreams. Lucifer used to do that to Sam in S5, and the MoC was sort of doing that to Dean last season. So that seems like a pretty tried-and-true SL for the show.

Edited August 26, 2015 by rue721

[Aeryn13]

 

I guess I'm not reading it as a big supernatural storyline for the season.

 

I can`t find any links right now but since it bothered me so much in the interview, it burned itself into my memory anyways. Dabb said this (more or less word for word): Season 2 kicks off a storyline for Sam that fans have being waiting for/asking about, in a way we haven`t yet seen before".

 

Dabb wrote that episode which is, I think, the first one Sam gets those visions. 

 

Jared was the one who explained it in more detail. That we`d be seeing possibly dead characters in those visions/dreams/memories he is going to have. And that Sam will think they come from a higher power.

 

Jensen was asked about his connection to the Darkness and only said that so far he had not yet seen anything that showed Dean had such a connection. That something might come down the line (he has said "something might bla bla" before and it never did). He also said there were "visions", IMO refering to the visions Sam will be having.

 

Nothing about that says to me it`s a one-and-done thing. The new twist is IMO either Sam`s visions DO come from God and he IS the Chosen One of God to deal with the darkness. If his sidekick brother tags along, fine, if not, no biggie. Whereas his old visions came from the YED blood. That would fit Dabb`s spoilers. OR, he will experience Lucifer`s memories again or a connection to him because Lucifer as an archangel fought the Darkness once before.

 

I have no doubt the visions will be instrumental in defeating the Darkness, giving Sam actually great importance in the overall plot, much more so than Dean  as well as his own supernatural storyline.

 

Meanwhile there COULD be connections to explore for Dean as well but apparently they won`t. And if his contribution is to drive Sam around, well technically, anyone could do it. It`s simply not enough for me.    

Edited August 26, 2015 by Aeryn13

[catrox14]

It sort of depends on one's definition of "Chosen".  Dean got a storyline that made him not exactly a "Chosen" because he did it himself. He was lead down a garden path to destruction like Sam was in s4. And Dean was a Chosen vessel, until he wasn't. So for me the only one that was truly the 'Chosen' one was Sam. 

 

But either way, they were still together and ultimately united even if they couldn't change the outcome. I just don't really get the whole "they haven't been brothers thing" except for s4 and s9. They fight, disagreed, etc etc every season even in s1 which is thought of as the truly united season. I thought they were most united in s2 despite the Save or Kill Sam directive and Sam being a Chosen one.

 

So I'm still not quite understanding the  "get back to basics, bros only" other than taking out recurring, regular characters like Cas and Crowley. It's kind of left me scratching my head.

[catrox14]

Aeryn13, I recall the same thing you did. It sounded to me like Sam was going to have visions.  There was some talk of Dean likely having a "connection to the Darkness" because of the Mark having been on Dean.

[SueB]

I think Mark and Misha are here to stay. After filming EVERY scene in 'Baby', Jensen said it was grueling and he was tired. I think both of the boys would have a real issue without M3 there to take some screen time.

[Aeryn13]

 

There was some talk of Dean likely having a "connection to the Darkness" because of the Mark having been on Dean.

 

That was only how the interviewer phrased the question, that that would make sense but Jensen had to honestly answer that nope, he `hadn`t seen anything of the kind in the first 3 scripts. And I don`t believe it`s coming in episodes 4 till 23 either.

 

I guess we`re back to the kind of mytharc episode structure where Dean is in them but the writers really struggle to incorporate the character. And really, you could take out all his scenes, maybe all except one where he is set up for blame later, and still keep the plot perfectly intact.Like the Season 8 Finale. Or the Season 9 mid-Seasons two-parter. And the trials episodes were also insult to injury.   As badly as the MOC was often executed, it was so refershing to at least not have such mytharc episodes anymore. The character was finally integral to the plot structure. What a joy to go right back to the opposite. Not. 

Edited August 26, 2015 by Aeryn13

[Demented Daisy]

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/08/26/supernatural-jared-padalecki-god-season-11

 

God?

[catrox14]

From your  link DementedDaisy
 

Of course, many fans believe that Chuck — played by Rob Benedict — is the big man upstairs, but he’s yet to
make a definitive appearance as such. But thanks to the arrival of the Darkness in the show’s upcoming eleventh season, there’s a possibility fans could get what they’ve been waiting for.
Because the Darkness is a pre-Biblical entity that God fought off many, many, many years ago, there’s a good chance the brothers will need God’s help to figure out how to defeat it. There’s also the chance that they’ll have to turn to Lucifer. Basically, at this point, nothing’s off limits.
“I think [the Darkness] certainly opens the door for Lucifer and/or God to pop up,” Jared Padalecki said. ”We’re certainly going back to that and going a bit more biblical and having our take on the writings that didn’t make it into the Bible.”
And while we know that this could mean that Sam and Dean might have to turn to Metatron, even Metatron’s knowledge isn’t a match for God. As Padalecki put it, “Since we know God’s a scribe, we may have to invite him along for the ride.”

 

 

Okay the bolded part is gnawing at me (imagine that)

 

--has to be a typo

--or a misunderstanding from the writer

--or Jared is understanding something about God that we've never heard before

--or he means it's Metatron who is God's scribe not that God IS a scribe because WHAT??

--or he's given us a spoiler of some kind.

 

What say y'all?

Edited August 26, 2015 by catrox14

[Aeryn13]

This sentence would only make sense as "since we know God`s scribe (aka Metatron), we might have to invite him along for the ride". 

[catrox14]

This sentence would only make sense as "since we know God`s scribe (aka Metatron), we might have to invite him along for the ride". 

 

This was my thought as well. Man, this is gonna bug me until it's cleared up by EW or Jared. LOL

[SueB]

This sentence would only make sense as "since we know God`s scribe (aka Metatron), we might have to invite him along for the ride". 

Exactly.  I'm betting the "a" was either a misspeak or a bad transcription but it doesn't belong there IMO. 

[Demented Daisy]

This was my thought as well. Man, this is gonna bug me until it's cleared up by EW or Jared. LOL

 

No offense, but what difference does it make?

[DittyDotDot]

How about...“Since we know [he's] a scribe of God's, we may have to invite him along for the ride.”