Spoilers With Speculation

[catrox14]

The stabbing of Crowley?

 

 

 

Seems like he was successful then, which still may mean he's not dead yet. But maybe Crowley really is dead :(. Which if he is that would be a lousy death. I mean seriously no on screen death for Crowley? WTF? As much as he should die, I want to SEE that happen. 

[catrox14]

Here's some spec. What if Crowley is getting the spinoff?

 

What if that's why Mark is talking about losing his parking space? Like maybe they moved him to a different lot? Like maybe that's why they said "Crowley's in a very different place"....?

[DittyDotDot]

Here's some spec. What if Crowley is getting the spinoff?

 

What if that's why Mark is talking about losing his parking space? Like maybe they moved him to a different lot? Like maybe that's why they said "Crowley's in a very different place"....?

 

 

So you're saying that Mark's wish to live in the sitcom called Oh, Crowley where every scene is buttoned by someone uttering "Ooooh, Crowley" was not a joke? ;)

[lmdreamer]

What if rowena's spell accidentally turned crowley human and cas stabbed him but is unable to die because death is dead?  right before they cut away crowley was flinching and cowering when any other time he would have pulled out his angle blade.  It was uncrowley like behavior.  He could still move his arms.

[catrox14]

Ohhh I like that spec Imadreamer

[lmdreamer]

It just occurred to me what did rowena say in dark dynasty about breaking curses, something about creating a new one in other to undo one?  was this a throwaway line or will this come back?

[catrox14]

No I don't think it was a throwaway at all. The only problem is will they bother to do anything with it.

[Omegamom]

At ComiCon, didn't one of the showrunners say that in episode two "you'll see Crowley like you've never seen him before"? So...he gets stabbed and someone (Cas? The boys?) has to nurse him back to health, so he's all meek and humble and whiny. I'm in the camp that believes Mark Sheppard is trolling the fans dreadfully.

[SueB]

  Here's the thing though... A Key doesn't disappear once it unlocks it's Lock, so could he be saying that they might have to find it again, to relock the Darkness away?

 

Now EVERYTIME someone writes the word "Key and Lock" I hear 'Sam' saying 'If there's a lock, there must be a key' with his awful acting.  Just me?? 

 

Here's some spec. What if Crowley is getting the spinoff?

 

What if that's why Mark is talking about losing his parking space? Like maybe they moved him to a different lot? Like maybe that's why they said "Crowley's in a very different place"....?

Mark is COMPLETELY jerking us around....but likely jerking us around with the truth.  I think Cas stabs Crowley, Crowley is either dead or dead-adjacent, and his S11 arc is going to start off with him coming back from the effect of whatever happened when Cas stabbed him.  Jensen said he was spending all of the Monday after Comic Con filming with Mark Shepard. So, he apparently didn't get the 'tell everyone Crowley is dead' memo.  I'm also hoping that we get some BTS photos of Mark out on the streets in Crowley gear. Since I'm going to MinnCon, I swear I'm going to print out a poster size S11 BTS picture of Mark if it shows up and just hold it up during his panel.  

 

I adore the man, he's yanking our chain.

 

As for his lack of appearance in the Hillywood show...the guys really didn't have a clue what they were going. I can see Mark thinking ...ahhh no....I'm not going to dance around to pop music.  Or he could have been off in his own panel at that time as well.  

[catrox14]

 

Now EVERYTIME someone writes the word "Key and Lock" I hear 'Sam' saying 'If there's a lock, there must be a key' with his awful acting.  Just me?

 

Nope. That's all I heard the first time it was uttered by Death and I almost expected Sam to move his arms about in that funny way.

[AwesomO4000]

Now EVERYTIME someone writes the word "Key and Lock" I hear 'Sam' saying 'If there's a lock, there must be a key' with his awful acting.  Just me??

 

Nope, part deux. In fact that came to mind so much so when Death mentioned it that I had to think over in my head what exactly Sam said there and in reference to what, because I briefly thought "Wait was that foreshadowing of some sort in 'The French Mistake?' Because why is Death talking about keys and locks?" And then I got distracted with thinking "Well, if Dean is a key, then does that mean Dean is Dawn?" I'm easily distracted at this time in my life... Ooh dandelions. *

 

* California cow commercial reference.

[DittyDotDot]

It just occurred to me what did rowena say in dark dynasty about breaking curses, something about creating a new one in other to undo one?  was this a throwaway line or will this come back?

 

I've been thinking about this as well. I hope it comes back into play and that the writers haven't forgotten about it. Perhaps it's the spell she cast on Cass that's the counterpoint and not something they can easily undo? I do find it interesting that she can curse and angel so easily, though.

 

Now EVERYTIME someone writes the word "Key and Lock" I hear 'Sam' saying 'If there's a lock, there must be a key' with his awful acting.  Just me??  

 

Not just you. I have a bit of a giggle every time I type it. Probably doesn't help that I'm already a bit giddy from typing the Darkness. ;)

[SueB]

Not actually a spoiler but I figure it might contribute to current theories, especially since they now have a "command center" for the Darkness Defense and we know they are there in EP 3.

 

Take a look at this table again:

 

The legend has 8 different colors and it's not just just "continents".  Spain/France/Italy, Madagascar, and India are oddly all the same color.  I think this might designate the MoL "chapters".  The North American one being the largest landmass but that EurAsia one looks BIG. China is interestingly on it's own.  I really hope we get something about a world-wide organization this year.  I did go back and check, the table color scheme has not changed since the first episode we saw the MoL (Everybody Hates Hitler) so...it may mean nothing except for something out of the mind of Jerry Wanek.

[AwesomO4000]

Could it designate types of "habitats" or "mythologies" or something? It's interesting that green area (Scandinavia?) also seems to be by itself except for maybe Ireland? Do they share mythology in some way? (like maybe Viking mythology or something). Although that doesn't explain the France/Spain/Italy and India thing, though.

[SueB]

I have no clue but I've always been fascinated by the table, I hope they put it to good use.  

[catrox14]

I just assumed the MoL just created the game of RISK from the table...

[DittyDotDot]

It might be because the map should be pre-1958. On the surface, it looks like it could be a map of political alignments in the 1950s.

 

What episode did you get the screen cap from, SueB. Is it after the angels fell and/or after they modified the table to track the angels? Aren't the orange/red dots showing supernatural activity?

[SueB]

Yes, it's from "Sacrifice", when the Angels started falling. It's the only time, as far as I know, that the table has been active.  So this was the best "full" picture of the table.  

What triggered me was the table again at the end of Book of the Damned and I notice the odd color grouping so I went looking for a full shot.  

You know, I would really love it if they started figuring out how the bunker worked more.  They've got such potential with the MoL storyline IMO.  

 

I know they said they had a two-part "bottle" episode, but for some reason I don't think it's in the MoL bunker.  I'd suspect something like a haunted house or massive church they can't leave (like the one in Paint It Black).  Some sort of siege-like episode.  

[Demented Daisy]

So, like Ghostfacers?  They were trapped in the house until the next morning.  Or Slumber Party?  That was entirely in the Lair o' Letters.

[DittyDotDot]

I'm still banking on the "bottle" episodes not being traditional bottle episodes and it not being them stuck on the same set for two episodes, but they end up working the same case in the same town for two episodes.

 

You know the best time for them to have explored the bunker and delved into the MoL history more was when they had Kevin held up in the bunker. I'm not sure I'm all the interested in the idea anymore. I'm sure I could be convinced otherwise though.

[SueB]

So, like Ghostfacers?  They were trapped in the house until the next morning.  Or Slumber Party?  That was entirely in the Lair o' Letters.

Yes.  Slumber Party definitely counts.  Ghostfacers had some "before" footage.  I was thinking they'd start the epsiode mid-crisis, maybe.  But could be wrong....

Well, here's fly in my chardonnay of WARDINT:

 

Filming EP2, bloodied. Theoretically. the blue T-shirt could be under the red and blue flannel.

I still think the "finale" from last year doesn't "end" until EP3.  

Edited July 30, 2015 by SueB

[catrox14]

My wild ass spec of the day.

It almost looks like Sammy's throat has been cut.

Jared has dropped "zombies" twice during interviews which I sort of went "rurrrhh". I thought it was an odd supernatural entity for Jared to reference when we've not had them other than, what 2 or 3 episodes in 10 seasons, if that? It's always dropped demons and angels, or ghosts or vampires or urban legends but not zombies.

Soooo I wonder since Dean apparently killed Death then the world could be filled with zombies and ghouls or those that are mortally wounded, or have terminal illnesses, or the elderly who die of natural causes, can't die.

Or maybe the Darkness being unleashed raised the already dead or the Darkness wants to raise the dead to make a zombie army. And even use those should be dead I. E. Sammy with a slit throat, but can't die because Dean killed Death.

So to restore the natural order Dean will be given the choice to become Death or it will be a battle over who becomes Death.

Edited July 30, 2015 by catrox14

[Diane]

My wild ass spec of the day.

It almost looks like Sammy's throat has been cut.

Jared has dropped "zombies" twice during interviews which I sort of went "rurrrhh". I thought it was an odd supernatural entity for Jared to reference when we've not had them other than, what 2 or 3 episodes in 10 seasons, if that? It's always dropped demons and angels, or ghosts or vampires or urban legends but not zombies.

Soooo I wonder since Dean apparently killed Death then the world could be filled with zombies and ghouls or those that are mortally wounded, or have terminal illnesses, or the elderly who die of natural causes, can't die.

Or maybe the Darkness being unleashed raised the already dead or the Darkness wants to raise the dead to make a zombie army. And even use those should be dead I. E. Sammy with a slit throat, but can't die because Dean killed Death.

So to restore the natural order Dean will be given the choice to become Death or it will be a battle over who becomes Death.

I don't think that Sam will be a zombie, they have all said that the brothers will not be afflicted with anything (demon blood, soulless Sam or mark of Cain).  So I don't know, will go back and listen again.

[AwesomO4000]

My wild ass spec of the day... {snip}

Soooo I wonder since Dean apparently killed Death then the world could be filled with zombies and ghouls or those that are mortally wounded, or have terminal illnesses, or the elderly who die of natural causes, can't die.

Or maybe the Darkness being unleashed raised the already dead or the Darkness wants to raise the dead to make a zombie army. And even use those should be dead I. E. Sammy with a slit throat, but can't die because Dean killed Death.

 

As far as I remember in this verse though, zombies have to be created. The ones we did have were the ones Death raised and the one that guy raised so he could have an undead girlfriend. The one time we had (that I remember off the top of my head) when people couldn't die - "Death Takes a Holiday" - the people just didn't die. The kid in the episode was a ghost, because the reaper hadn't gotten a chance to finish the process after making him dead. So I gathered from that episode that it's a two step process. First the reaper comes along and finishes you off, then the soul has to decide / be convinced to move on to the afterlife or not.

 

So even if Sam were "dead" with no reapers or Death around, then he would just be Sam, but supposedly dead man walking until the natural order of things was restored when theoretically he would die... unless Castiel saved him, which I assume will happen as soon as they fix Cas. So Sam could theoretically be "dead" for an episode or two, but then Cas can fix him up once he's gotten out from under Rowena's spell.

 

I'm just not sure at this point if I remember what happened to the reapers or where they are. With their boss dead, what's going to happen to them? Are they going to keep doing their job, or are a bunch of them just going to up and abandon their posts leaving a "death lag" while the reapers still doing their job hurry to take up the slack?

 

But I'm thinking your second option sounds more likely... maybe people just can't die. If there are going to be zombies, I think the Darkness is going to have to create them somehow, though theoretically if the Darkness is just amoral and/or chaos, it shouldn't really "want" an army of anything. It should just want "to be" with things more or less being in its way.

Edited July 30, 2015 by AwesomO4000

[catrox14]

I don't think that Sam will be a zombie, they have all said that the brothers will not be afflicted with anything (demon blood, soulless Sam or mark of Cain). So I don't know, will go back and listen again.

My zombie spec doesn't negate them not being afflicted with demon blood or the Mark of Cain. They could have been ba k to normal and then realize they can't die.

I guess for me since they killed Death all bets are off and canon is rendered dead. :(

As to the Darkness, Death said God and the archangels were at war with the Darkness iirc. So if the darkness is unleashed vengeance might be on its mind or a simple return to it being in charge of the universe could be reason enough to raise an army.

Edited July 30, 2015 by catrox14

[Diane]

My zombie spec doesn't negate them not being afflicted with demon blood or the Mark of Cain. They could have been ba k to normal and then realize they can't die.

I guess for me since they killed Death all bets are off and canon is rendered dead. :(

As to the Darkness, Death said God and the archangels were at war with the Darkness iirc. So if the darkness is unleashed vengeance might be on its mind or a simple return to it being in charge of the universe could be reason enough to raise an army.

I just meant that is what Jensen and Jared have said in all of the interviews and panels so far since they started filming this season.  That they are back to normal fighting the bad together.  I have no idea about Death and if anyone will be able to die. That really is a good question, it will be interesting to see how they handle it. (or maybe not, but I am hoping)

[catrox14]

I know what you meant and I heard all those interviews too.

 

They've also said things that they thought or hoped would be the case that didn't pan out like they hoped, like Jensen saying he was hoping demon!Dean wouldn't be scrapped up too quickly at JIBcon in May last year or that it would last several episodes and then a just a few weeks later he's directing the episode in which demon!Dean is cured and that was never hinted at in the comic-con interviews at all.  So for me what they say will or won't happen I think is open to many changes.

 

I'm trying to figure out why would Sam have blood dripping from his neck in a manner that has generally only been seen with a slit throat, vampire bite or ghoul snacking....? Any ideas?

[Omegamom]

Rowena sicced her rabid angel hound Cas on him when they corner her?

Broken glass from the Impala being tossed about as The Darkness envelops them?

Torture?

He cut himself shaving? Dean cut him, trying to cut his hair??

[DittyDotDot]

Blood splatter that collected into that pattern when he moved his neck?

[catrox14]

How though? That's dripping pattern. He would have to have carrying someone else bleeding under his neck. That's a pretty strange blood splatter.

 

Broken glass lodged in Sam's neck near the jugular? Sure. Likely survival? Tough to say

 

My point being that is a neck injury. Something bad happened to Sam. We'll see what happens.

 

But I don't why zombies are so out of the realm of thought here. They gave us Frankenstein! 

 

And again why did Jared drop "zombies" in the conversation?  And I am not saying like 100% Sam is the walking dead.  But it's awfully peculiar.

Edited July 31, 2015 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

Sounds like you need to do a science experiment catrox!

 

Find someone who's willing to have their head lopped off with a machete or a scythe--scientist's choice. Then when the blood splatters on you and drips down your neck, turn your head down and/or from side to side.

 

Just to be thorough, you should also do it with someone else lopping off the head and you standing very close. Of course, that would require at least one other volunteer. But hey, it's for science, so it shouldn't be much of a problem to find a couple folks. 

 

Sure, you could also have someone dip a paintbrush in colored corn syrup and have them flick it at you and probably get similar results, but where would be the fun in that?

 

Document and report your findings. Maybe some journal will be interested in publishing it! ;)

Edited July 31, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

 I'll make sure I do that.  Sigh.

 

I feel like somehow I've offended everyone by even mentioning zombies or walking dead here LOL. I mean it's not a totally ridiculous idea given there is no Death that we know of at this point.

 

You can all laugh at me later, but I'm going with undead.

Edited July 31, 2015 by catrox14

[Diane]

I'll make sure I do that.  Sigh.

 

I feel like somehow I've offended everyone by even mentioning zombies or walking dead here LOL. I mean it's not a totally ridiculous idea given there is no Death that we know of at this point.

 

You can all laugh at me later, but I'm going with undead.

You certainly did not offend me!

[DittyDotDot]

 I'll make sure I do that.  Sigh.

 

I feel like somehow I've offended everyone by even mentioning zombies or walking dead here LOL. I mean it's not a totally ridiculous idea given there is no Death that we know of at this point.

 

You can all laugh at me later, but I'm going with undead.

 

No offense whatsoever! I was just having fun and being silly.

Edited July 31, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[Omegamom]

Nah, not offended! Death is (maybe) dead, and that would surely cause problems. I can see the Undead walking around, causing problems. (Your wife shot you because she caught you cheating? Hey, you're not dead! You can shoot her back! Or, preferably, since everyone is in the same boat, you can hack her up, so she won't come and shoot you again...). All sorts of fun possibilities.

But they'll ruin it with something out of left field, probably. Sigh.

[catrox14]

Nah, not offended! Death is (maybe) dead, and that would surely cause problems. I can see the Undead walking around, causing problems. (Your wife shot you because she caught you cheating? Hey, you're not dead! You can shoot her back! Or, preferably, since everyone is in the same boat, you can hack her up, so she won't come and shoot you again...). All sorts of fun possibilities.

But they'll ruin it with something out of left field, probably. Sigh.

 

Maybe I'm just kind of hoping they do it....but you're right they probably will do something out of left field. :(

[Demented Daisy]

I don't think his throat has been cut.  Up on his cheekbone, that's how they do cuts.  His neck looks like smeared blood.  I don't see any skin flaps that would occur when it has been cut.  

 

No idea how the blood got there.  Too soon to tell.

[DittyDotDot]

^^ That's what I was getting at, but a science experiment sounded fun too!

[catrox14]

^^ That's what I was getting at, but a science experiment sounded fun too!

Sure, it's fun as long you're not the one trying find subjects!  Do you know how hard it is to tell them you can't pay them for lopping off their heads???

[Mick Lady]

Just when I thought catrox was joining the land of the sane...

[catrox14]

Just when I thought catrox was joining the land of the sane...

 

Dear Gods. Whatever lead you to that conclusion? I mean I watch this show after all.....

[catrox14]

OKay so I have a question.

 

What happened to Ruby's demon knife?  Sam had it when he was going to kill Crowley but then Crowley rejuiced and flicked it away.  Do we know if Sam ever got it back or does Crowley have it?

[DittyDotDot]

Sure, it's fun as long you're not the one trying find subjects!  Do you know how hard it is to tell them you can't pay them for lopping off their heads???

 

Pshah, It's not like they'll need to be paid once you lop off their heads! Just remember to tell them it's for science. ;)

 

 

 

OKay so I have a question.

 

What happened to Ruby's demon knife?  Sam had it when he was going to kill Crowley but then Crowley rejuiced and flicked it away.  Do we know if Sam ever got it back or does Crowley have it?

 

I don't know for sure, but the knife hasn't been all that useful as of late--couldn't kill Abaddon and probably will be useless on Crowley now too--does it really matter at the end of the day. I wouldn't be surprised if it randomly shows up again, though.

[Demented Daisy]

I really wish they would abandon the knife.  Shouldn't there be a cache of more powerful weapons in the LoL?

[SueB]

The knife went skittering across the floor as Sam was thinking of going to get it after Crowley tossed him thru the wall.  I presume Sam got it after Crowley left.  Crowley was feeling mighty powerful, he didn't seem worried about the knife.  

[mertensia]

That neck looks more like bleeding from an abrasion- someone tried to strangle Sam with piano wire?

[Mick Lady]

OKay so I have a question.

 

What happened to Ruby's demon knife?  Sam had it when he was going to kill Crowley but then Crowley rejuiced and flicked it away.  Do we know if Sam ever got it back or does Crowley have it?

 

Great. Just thanks. I'm here still trying to figure out where the MoC is, and that damn map, and you bring this up.

 

Why can't you be a normal person? JUST TILL I GET MY SANITY BACK!

[Wynterwolf]

Sanity is waaaay overrated.  Way more fun without it.  

[Mick Lady]

Around here it's worthless. When SueB (that MAP!) and Dot (for science?! You're usually so sweet!) join in I mildly panic. Demented Daisy is just to be expected, so I'm really okay with that. Honestly I'm fine. But when Omegamom  (hack her up so she can't shoot you again?! Where did that come from?) and Awesom both go off their meds on the same night, (And honestly Awesom, I expected more from you. California Cows?! Are you okay?) the end is near. At least for my sanity.

 

I defy anyone from another show on this board read just this page and believe we're all safe to be out in public.

 

Now I'm going to go watch several episodes and try to figure this all out. Watch catrox troll by with dandelions. I wouldn't put it past her!

[AwesomO4000]

 (And honestly Awesom, I expected more from you. California Cows?! Are you okay?)

 

Well in my defense those old California cow commercials - the ones from about 7-8 years ago - were cute and funny. Unfortunately I couldn't find a video of the one I was referencing - where the cow is running a race ... "look at me! I'm winning, I'm winning.... Ooh dandelions!" (the race is forgotten as she munches on the dandelions instead). Hubby and I still use that as shorthand when one of us gets distracted from whatever the subject we were talking about was. We use it all the time. Sort of like "Ooh look, shiny."

 

Why can't you be a normal person? JUST TILL I GET MY SANITY BACK!

 

Now I'm imagining you like Helen Hunt's Carol at the end of "As Good As It Gets" lamenting animatedly to her mother (or husband Mick in this case) about Jack Nicholson's Melvin (or us in this scenario) "Why can't I have normal boardmates? Just regular people, ones that don't go nuts on me... and discuss lopping people's heads off - for science - or stuffing bodies in trunks?" so I'll be her mom and say "Everybody wants that, dear Mick Lady. It doesn't exist... Especially not on this board." *Pats Mick Lady soothingly on the shoulder like Sam with the frat guy's roommate in Dean's reenactment from "Tall Tales" *

 

But for the sake of your sanity, I shall try to have better cultural references in the future - no promises, because instead they'll likely come from Buffy or MST3K or South Park instead if not from Supernatural, and well... sometimes that leads to badness. My cultural references are fairly eclectic you might say. (My current favorite is Jebidiah Atkinson the 19th century literary critic character from Saturday Night Live; "Next!")

 

Man, we really need some new spoilers before I go crazy... or well, more crazy.

Edited August 2, 2015 by AwesomO4000