Spoilers With Speculation

[AwesomO4000]

I'm not even sure why they need a new woman to be the darkness. They already have Rowena... who was responsible for the darkness coming into being. I know that supposedly the darkness is an amoral force - though like SueB, I'm a bit confused on how then it can be evil. Soulless Sam for example was not evil. He did awful things, but not out of evilness * ... and in some ways his "evil" deeds were even more interesting in that he did them just because he didn't really care... it was just of interest to him or something or someone that he couldn't give a crap about was in the way of his goal.

 

Now for me personally, it would be interesting if the darkness was more like that, except for one thing: it's somehow drawn to Rowena - perhaps even "feel" indebted to her or "want" her -  because she unleashed it. This might set up an interesting conflict where Rowena is no longer interested in the "power" she unleashed, because even though now she has the book and can supposedly be a powerful witch, that same power makes her a "darkness magnet" and so in the end, she must enlist the help of Sam and Dean to get the darkness off of her back and off the planet.

 

In my ideal scenario, the darkness will almost immediately coalesce (i.e. the usual two or 3 episodes) and make a beeline for power-hungry Rowena and the two of them battle it out or have a standoff offscreen somewhere (except for quick visits) in the deserts of Utah or hell's antichamber for a while until she finally has to come out and ask Sam and Dean for help. Rowena will get what she deserves, Sam will have only screwed up a little rather than royally (I would so like to see that), and I will be a happy camper... But because that sounds interesting to me - I am a sucker for "Monkey's Paw" scenarios - it's not likely to happen.

 

* In retrospect I often find Soulless Sam a more interesting character than I originally gave him credit for.

[DittyDotDot]

I'm not even sure why they need a new woman to be the darkness. They already have Rowena...

 

Yeah, I don't know why either. I like your scenario about Rowena having to come begging to the boys for help. I think that has some actual potential!

[rue721]

Now for me personally, it would be interesting if the darkness was more like that, except for one thing: it's somehow drawn to Rowena - perhaps even "feel" indebted to her or "want" her -  because she unleashed it. This might set up an interesting conflict where Rowena is no longer interested in the "power" she unleashed, because even though now she has the book and can supposedly be a powerful witch, that same power makes her a "darkness magnet" and so in the end, she must enlist the help of Sam and Dean to get the darkness off of her back and off the planet.

 

Wouldn't that make Rowena's relationship with The Darrrrrkness pretty much the same as Rowena's relationship with Crawley?

 

Bwhahahahahahaha.

 

OK now I hope that happens, and after a horrible spate of sibling rivalry, The Darrrrrrkness and Crawley team up and become the anti-WinchesterBros.

Edited June 30, 2015 by rue721

[catrox14]

You know.  The more I think about it....I'm not sure I'm convinced of my Rowena spec anymore.  She might have been more opportunistic than strategic.  But the person who is strategic is Crowley. 

 

What if the Darkness makes humans ripe souls for Crowley then he'll have control over Hell and basically the universe. Crowley knew what the Mark would do to Dean so I'm thinking he probably already knew it was a curse and that it was the Lock for the Darkness. Back in s8 he wanted to destroy the Winchesters and he could have been moving the pieces into place or thought he could with the demon tablet existing. But the denim-clad nightmares and Kevin circumvented his plan by discovering the demon blood cure. 

 

Crowley would need Dean alive to kill Cain. He gave up the Blade thinking he would get it back. So now that he's been totally betrayed by Dean and despite there conversation in Inside Man about Rowena, they are not really even frienemies. And especially now that he's become fully evil Crowley again either because Rowena hexed him or through inadvertent using the hex to his advantage, he's back to wanting his power and being probably not just the King of Hell but the King of Darkness.

 

I dunno, I gotta noodle some more on this...

[SueB]

Watched the S10 Mythology extra (will be on the DVD).  It had a lot of data regarding their intentions with the various storyline.  For catrox, per Carver: it was important that Dean "choose" to save Sam... that he had overcome the Mark's effect... before the Mark was removed.  I know that's not what you saw but that's what he said.  Thought you would want to know.

[AwesomO4000]

Watched the S10 Mythology extra (will be on the DVD).  It had a lot of data regarding their intentions with the various storyline.  For catrox, per Carver: it was important that Dean "choose" to save Sam... that he had overcome the Mark's effect... before the Mark was removed.  I know that's not what you saw but that's what he said.  Thought you would want to know.

 

Oh I completely hate that, because in a way that implies that removing the mark was unnecessary, since Dean overcame it... which would make Dean a huge Mary Sue and Sam - and Castiel -  the stupidest screw up ever who created an apocalypse because he just couldn't believe in his brother enough... and if that's what Carver wants from the characters, I really, really hate his "vision" for them and wish that he would let someone else take over before he completely ruins these characters for me...

 

I'm going to stick with my original theory that the mark wanted Death dead because it didn't want to be banished.

[SueB]

I figured it was not going to go over well with everyone.

I think it's another parallel. This time with Aeryn's favorite episode (Swan Song). Sam on his knees with nostalgic photos, prepared to die but still having faith in his brother was what helped Dean (IMO) overcome the Mark's effects.

Now TPTB didn't SAY that, this is me reading into what they were talking about.

Anyway, once the disks are more widely distributed, I'll write up more. This was an important bit relative to current speculation.

Edited June 30, 2015 by SueB

[catrox14]

RANT WARNING about the Mythology of the Mark.

 

I watched the BTS thing.  Something didn't click for me like AT ALL. There seems to be stuff left out of those interviews. I have to watch it again because I'm throwing down some serious bullshit flags about what story they though they were telling and how it played out for this viewer.  Mileage varies.  I don't think half of what they say is what comes across on screen which is both good and bad. None of the writers seemed to be on the same page about what the Mark was supposed to be and do, which actually explains a LOT.

 

I think Carver saying Dean summoned the will for a moment  is not him saying that Dean overcame the Mark entirely because he didn't . He killed the THINMAN in s9. He killed Randy and the RapistsI He killed Lester.  He killed AvatarSam!Baby Styne.   I think "Save Sam" is still Dean's raison d etre and that is just so ingrained and part of his DNA to a degree that him not killing Sam was totally believable and IMO not Deany Stu, since we've seen him do it time and again even against Sam's wishes.  He saved him from a fire. He sold his soul to Save Sammy. He couldn't let him die after the trials so he let an angel possess Sam. I can live with "for a moment "Save Sammy" was stronger than the Mark.

 

But that still doesn't explain why the fuck Dean had to kill Death. That tells me that Death's death was completely accidental, which means Death is the stupidest SOB in the entire universe for giving Dean his scythe or ever believing Dean would actually put the universe in front of Sam.

 

Sigh. That's just lame.

 

And good grief, there was never any point to them turning Dean into a demon because they ended up with Dean in the same place with the Mark, a blade at Sam's throat.  demon!Dean would have been a credible threat to kill Sam because demon!Dean didn't give a fuck about ANYONE.  How much more interesting would it have been to have Dean flash the demon eyes right before swinging at Sam?  Oh and then they should have cliffhangered us at that point IMO.  That's what I would have done. 

 

Bah.  I'm annoyed.

 

 

going to stick with my original theory that the mark wanted Death dead because it didn't want to be banished

 

.

Awesome04000, I can  head!canon that "Save Sammy" was stronger than "Kill Sammy" for a moment and that the Mark took Dean back over thus guiding the scythe into Death. 

 

My preferred head!canon remains that this is a Metatron level spell. That only Metatron would make the mistake of having Death show up and actually threaten to kill Sam himself or be all in Sam's face about "standing him up" whilst giving Dean the ONLY METHOD OF KILLING DEATH.  I mean that right there makes me feel stabby about the end. 

 

Sigh. I was just really starting to find ways to really not be confounded in a bad way about s10 because I love so much of Jensen and Jared's work this season but storylines and the ending are more like WHUUUUUTTTTTT...

 

 

Ohhh...maybe Metatron is so pissed off about Cas taking his grace and being shot by Sam, and that since he now has the demon tablet he's gone over to the Darkness. Ohhhh. what if Metatron made a deal with Lucifer to get him out of the cage by killing Death......Ohhhhh....thinky thoughts are brewing.

Edited June 30, 2015 by catrox14

[Aeryn13]

 

This time with Aeryn's favorite episode (Swan Song).

 

Wash your mouth out with soap. Suck Song and favourite being in the same sentence is like matter and antimatter colliding. The universe as we know it will cease to exist.  

 

The "parallel" was obvious in the Season 10 Finale but it was only the yellow Crayon crap moment. I hate that in every incarnation of every story, including in Buffy. But they didn`t bother to parallel the one thing that actually counts aka the big martyr world saving. So thanks but no thanks, Carver.  

 

I`m not surprised with the "this was our intention" not matching up with what was onscreen. That is now par of the course with Carver. Of course, I think his ideas are crap and the execution, while completely different, is also crap. Not sure how he manages that. At least one should work. But his instincts as a storyteller are atrocious IMO. At least with this show.

 

That Dean was supposed to be "choosing Sam" was also IMO never in question. They telegraphed that so heavily, what else could it be? Not to mention both Jensen and Jared alluded to as much in interviews. This is the message they want to be selling, the brothers "choosing each other". I don`t think the writers realize that this faux-romantic notion now makes them horrible people, given the givens. They seem to figure that since they are technically the "heroes" of the story, they are always good and right. At least when they dive headfirst into that toxic bond of theirs. It`s not supposed to be seen as toxic. At least Carver doesn`t openly try to sell this anymore.   

Edited June 30, 2015 by Aeryn13

[AwesomO4000]

I think Carver saying Dean summoned the will for a moment  is not him saying that Dean overcame the Mark entirely because he didn't . He killed the THINMAN in s9. He killed Randy and the RapistsI He killed Lester.  He killed AvatarSam!Baby Styne.   I think "Save Sam" is still Dean's raison d etre and that is just so ingrained and part of his DNA to a degree that him not killing Sam was totally believable and IMO not Deany Stu, since we've seen him do it time and again even against Sam's wishes.  He saved him from a fire. He sold his soul to Save Sammy. He couldn't let him die after the trials so he let an angel possess Sam. I can live with "for a moment "Save Sammy" was stronger than the Mark.

 

If this is what it's supposed to be, I'd find that better, and I can see the parallel with "Swan Song" too. But if it was more "overcoming the mark" in general, however, that's what would annoy me. And I guess the only reason why my hackles get up in thinking that might be Carver's  intention - i.e. that Dean had "cured" himself - was exactly the things we were commenting on near the end of the season: mainly where were Dean's previous symptoms? Where was the getting sick from not killing - especially after he'd killed Cain? Theoretically from past history Dean should have been getting pretty bad with the need to kill... so if Carver's message was that tragically Dean would have been able to beat the mark if only Sam had shown faith in him and look see he did beat it, but oh how tragic, it was just a moment too late - because why would it be important for the story for Dean to overcome the mark before it was removed except for the "oh, how tragic" factor - that would make me angry. And sadly with the way Carver seems to view Sam, I'm afraid this is why he's saying it was "important" that Dean "choose" Sam and overcome the mark before it was removed, because that would then take away any "saving" of Dean from Sam and make it unnecessary...

 

And I so hope we don't get half a season of "I was handling it, Sam. You saw how I didn't kill you and I was fine, so you started all of this apocalypse for nothing." with guilty Sam having to gain Dean's trust back for another season a la season 5. I liked season 5, but I'm tired of Sam being in the wrong and having to constantly try to get back in Dean's good graces all of the time.

 

Hopefully I'm seeing unicorns where there are only horses, but I don't trust Carver with Sam's characterization anymore, so I tend to see the unicorns.

[Diane]

Just re-watching the Brothers Keeper and at the very end after Sam lays down the pictures, Death says "It's for family you must proceed, Dean. To be what you are, to become what you've become is a stain on their memory. Do it. Or I will."  I don't think that it is really Death, mainly because I don't think he would have said that to Dean.  I didn't catch this the first time and I am just now re-watching it.  It really seems out of character for him to say it.  Who knows.

[Demented Daisy]

From the same article:

 

 

So....  Any chance Jared is thinking of leaving the show, after his post-season fatigue?

 

More on that blind item:

 

http://tvline.com/2015/06/30/blind-item-ausiello-couple-breaking-up-fall-tv/

 

Interesting tidbit/clue:

I’ve learned that a hit series will throw caution to the wind and put a (possibly permanent!) pin in one of TV’s most popular love stories — a game-changing move that threatens to seismically alter the DNA of the series.

 

Oh, and it will also piss off a lot of people, a backlash The Powers That Be are said to be fully prepared for and not necessarily all that fearful of; the aging series could benefit from having its core rocked, many believe.

 

Now, the big guesses are Bones or Castle, but I don't know....  Ausiello specifically mentioned it being on one of the "Big 5"; he usually doesn't include the CW.  Also, he refers to it as a one-hour drama and AFAIK, Bones and Castle are still classified as "dramedies".

 

Cue the terror!  ;-)

[Demented Daisy]

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if Jared has asked for additional time off this year.  Would make sense.  From that perspective, I suggest that the Darkness (or its human embodiment) has taken Sam hostage and Dean spends the first half of the season searching for him.

 

Which would be a great reason to bring John back.  A bizarro S1, you know?

[Diane]

More on that blind item:

 

http://tvline.com/2015/06/30/blind-item-ausiello-couple-breaking-up-fall-tv/

 

Interesting tidbit/clue:

 

Now, the big guesses are Bones or Castle, but I don't know....  Ausiello specifically mentioned it being on one of the "Big 5"; he usually doesn't include the CW.  Also, he refers to it as a one-hour drama and AFAIK, Bones and Castle are still classified as "dramedies".

 

Cue the terror!  ;-)

Since it says it refers to a popular love story I don't see how it can have anything to do with Supernatural.  Has something else been said that would lead us to believe that Jared has asked for time off?

Edited July 1, 2015 by Diane

[Aeryn13]

Yes, I think the blind item refers to a romantic couple being broken up which would drastically alter the show. The only show on the CW that was so heavily build on both romance and one couple in particular was Vampire Diaries. And that can`t be it because that couple has already been put on hiatus.

 

So Bones and Castle would fit even though narratively it wouldn`t make much sense. For one couple the break would come out of nowhere, another just recently got together again after a split. This leads me to thinking it is another show yet.  

[catrox14]

Maybe once upon a time?

[Diane]

http://tvline.com/2015/07/01/crossover-event-fall-tv-season-blind-item/

 

Could Jensen be getting his wish to finally kill on the Vampire Diaries? LOL

[DittyDotDot]

Maybe they're gonna make Destiel cannon and then destroy Destiel?  ;)

[catrox14]

Those are not different genres though. Both have vampires. . I'm going with SPN/Flarrow.

Jared and Stephen are besties. Sam and Dean could be zapped by Barry Allen into a different time line. Or The guys go to different cities all the time so they could end up in Starling City hunting what they think is a ghost. But turns out it really meta human. maybe we find out that John Winchester is Felicitys father. Oh gods I have to write this.

[catrox14]

Oh gods. Sam and Dean are a love story just not sexual.

Changing the DNA. What if we find out that Sam and Dean are not actually brothers? Or the darkness resets the universe with Sam and Dean not being brothers at all. HOLYYYYY CRAP. Would they dare?

That would definitely be polarizing.

[Aeryn13]

Once upon a time is definitely a candidate with Captain/Swan.

 

To me Supernatural isn`t remotely a contender for the "a couple will break up" blind item. It`s not phrased so coyly that you can`t tell they mean "traditional" romance.. And while parts of fandom may think of it as a "love story" on SPN - I`m really not one of them - this is not what the casual viewer would describe it as. 

 

As for the new item with the crossover, I doubt it`s a CW show. They usually have X-overs with their genre, in-the-same-universe shows. For obvious reasons, you can not cross anything with either 100 or Reign and I doubt they would do it with Jane the Virgin. IMO it`s gonna be a different network.

 

Just watched the Mythology Special. Oy, noone really had any cohesive ideas or throughline on anything. People weren`t even on the same page in terms of story and character motivation. That alone tells me that whatever the Darkness will bring, it will be more of that. Being all over the place without rhyme or reason. I would dock all their pay until they actually did their job and planned out the Season`s storyline in advance.

[catrox14]

So many thoughts about that blind.

I don't think "one of the most popular love stories" is automatically equal to romance or sexual relationship. It's an aging series so that leaves not many too choose from. I don't think it will be Destiel just cause I think that's never gonna happen.

Putting a pin in it can mean either setting it up to happen later or popping the balloon on an already existing relationship.

The Darkness is a big thing that IMO better affect the entire planet. So maybe the Darkness is the seismic change.

What could alter SPN so fundamentally that it would cause a rift in fandom for SPN is a reboot with Sam and Dean not being brothers.

Dean and Baby is a love story and Baby is family...Shit. They wouldn't kill off Baby.....No. I can't contemplate that.

It wouldn't even be polarizing. ERRYONE IN fandom would riot.

[Demented Daisy]

Ausiello is known for his creatively written blind items.  He chooses his words very carefully.  

 

I find it amusing that in both blind items, he mentions DNA.

 

However, I think that OUaT and Agents of Shield are a good possibility.  Both are owned by Disney and they've been spending a lot of time shuffling their characters around.  I wouldn't be surprised if an Agent stumbled into Storybrook or Rumpelstiltsken is an Inhuman or something crazy like that.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Demented Daisy

[Aeryn13]

 

I don't think "one of the most popular love stories" is automatically equal to romance or sexual relationship.

 

For the general TV audience, I think it still is. That`s how the blind came across to me, Now the "aging" part could mean anything from a show in its 4th or so Season upward. That can already be considered aging.    

[catrox14]

See to me, "aging" is like 5 seasons or more. Or maybe, by tv standards and certainly by CW standards in general "aging" might actually mean "age of the characters".

[Demented Daisy]

http://tvline.com/2015/07/01/nashville-season-4-spoilers-new-character-markus/

 

Question: Can we get another clue for the Blind Item about the couple splitting up? —Meredith

 

Ausiello: The reason for the split (storyline-wise) will likely incur as much fan wrath as the break-up itself.

 

 

Interesting.  Will Cas be most sincerely dead?

 

Meanwhile, from Jared's FB:

 

So, I start my "real job" in 6 days....But, I gotta say. My FAVORITE "job" is being a daddy to these two little munchkins... and their dinosaur backpacks. I'm gonna miss walking them to school.

 

 

[Diane]

http://tvline.com/2015/07/01/nashville-season-4-spoilers-new-character-markus/

 

 

Interesting.  Will Cas be most sincerely dead?

 

Why do you think it's Supernatural, there are no couples on the show? 

[bethy]

Does Jared wear a hat all the time because he hates Sam's hair, too? It's nowhere near cool enough in Austin for anyone to need a hat or a jacket for that matter. It's 70s and humid even in the mornings these days.

[7kstar]

got no clue, notice the kidos are in shorts...maybe Jared just likes wearing them or easily gets cold...but that is weird for me too. 

 

I doubt it has anything to do with supernatural.  Castle, or Blue Bloods came to mind.  Danny's wife got shot and the recovery could be an issue that drives them apart for a while.  Bones sounds stupid.

 

They already let it slip that a couple on Reign is splitting and it isn't aging to me.  

 

The question is can Crowley have enough powers to deal with Cas without killing him?  I just hope whatever they do, they avoid the stupid time jump.

 

ETA:  Can't spell for some reason at all today.

Edited July 2, 2015 by 7kstar

[rue721]

Does Jared wear a hat all the time because he hates Sam's hair, too? It's nowhere near cool enough in Austin for anyone to need a hat or a jacket for that matter. It's 70s and humid even in the mornings these days.

 

My guess is that JP hates washing/combing/"doing" his hair and throws a hat on instead (and lucky for him, he looks great in hats!).

 

Though him hating Sam's hair is a definite possibility!

[catrox14]

I think if they had their druthers jared would shave his head or at least cut his hair shorter and Jensen would grow it longer like it is now or like demon! Dean. . But apparently PTB at CW say Sam must have long hair and Dean short hair.

[Demented Daisy]

Why do you think it's Supernatural, there are no couples on the show? 

 

Because Ausiello is sneaky.  He leaves red herrings all over the place.  

 

It's fun to speculate.  And it would be so boring if it were Bones or Castle or some traditional "love story".

[catrox14]

http://deanisanactualprincess.tumblr.com/post/123385074498/jeremy-carver-interview-on-supernatural-season-11

 

via The Winchester Family Business website

 

TV Guide interview with Carver. 

the closing moments of the season finale, we saw the Darkness envelop the brothers inside their Impala. What’s next?

Fans should be prepared for both the expected and unexpected. What we have planned so far is pretty wonderful, but it’s very hard for me to tease it.

If Dean had ended up killing Sam and going into exile to remove the Mark of Cain as Death had advised, the Darkness would never have returned. Will Dean have regrets about his decision?

There’s no question the boys will feel the burden of having been part of releasing the Darkness. It’s tough for me to believe, however Dean will get to that place. You might have to file this one under the price Dean was willing to pay.

Instead of killing Sam, Dean murdered Death! Does this mean everyone on Earth is immortal?

The question now is: We killed Death, but can you kill the idea of death? We’ll be looking forward to answering it in Season 11.

After several seasons of Dean or Sam being evil or cursed, will they finally be working side by side this year?

As always all I can say is yes---and no.

Is the Darkness your biggest bad since Lucifer and the threat of the Apocalypse in Season 5?

It’s safe to say this is the biggest thing to happen to the boys in a long time. We’re starting to explore prebiblical territory, a part of the universe’s history that hasn’t been written about before. This is what happened before the Bible begins.

In the finale, Rowena’s magic caused a crazed Castiel to attempt to slaughter the King of Hell, her hated son Crowley. Will either survive to help the brothers?

Based on what happened in that room, both of these guys have far bigger things to deal with than the boys at the top of the season.

So who will the Winchesters turn to for help?

The scariest proposition for Dean and Sam is they don’t know exactly what they need because they don’t know exactly what they’re dealing with. They only know what Death has told them. Everything after that is pretty much fresh snow, because so few people know about this.

Finally, what is your big theme for Season 11?

You can’t outrun your past.


Also, here's a quote by Carver in the photo caption:

"What fearsome reign the darkness will bring is yet unknown. Death [was afraid] he'd be destroyed by its coming."

I'm wondering if......they are going to be blase

Edited July 6, 2015 by catrox14

[AwesomO4000]

There’s no question the boys will feel the burden of having been part of releasing the Darkness. It’s tough for me to believe, however Dean will get to that place. You might have to file this one under the price Dean was willing to pay.

 

I find it hard to believe that Dean would think he was in any way responsible anyway as killing Death had nothing to do with releasing the Darkness. Even if he'd killed Sam and been banished, what proof would there have been that Rowena's spell wouldn't have worked anyway? In my opinion, there is either a giant logic bump here, or this and the wishy-washy - "yes... and no" answer to whether Sam and Dean will be working together is short-hand for Dean will be pissed off at and (understandably) blaming Sam for the whole thing. I hope not, but I would find it really hard to believe Dean would just shrug and say "I know Sam. You did what you had to do" ... this is not what the set up was saying to me at all... So for me "the boys will feel the burden" mostly means Sam, because apparently to Carver Sam is a grade A screw up, and Dean will spend season 11 trying to clean up his mess. Le sigh.

 

And likely Crowley and Castiel will have a more interesting story than that... cue one of them being taken over / affected by the Darkness (though I still think it trying to take over Rowena makes much more narrative sense).

[catrox14]

I hope neither brother blames the other one. I feel like it's all going to be a big reset.  You know the boys still haven't shaved off their hiatus beards.....what if......Carver saying they are looking at the preBiblical part of the Supernatural universe and those are literally taking back in time via the Darkness and we get their hiatus beardage for like an episode?  (Leave my wishful thinking out of it)

 

I think we are going to get everyone is immortal and it fucks up the earth in horrible ways and someone will have to become the new Death. I wonder if the twist is that maybe Sam became the new Death instead of Dean because we all have been saying Dean would be the new Death for killing Death. But maybe since Dean had the Mark when he killed Death that makes him unable to be new!Death and it falls to the next in line.....Sam.

[AwesomO4000]

But that should've happened as soon as Death died I would think.

 

I'm not sure how Death works, because for a long time he didn't have his ring, but people still died. The big problem - sort of, since it was all resolved offscreen and through a loophole (or loophole door if you will) - was when there were physical barriers to where the souls were supposed to go or when reapers weren't allowed to do their jobs. Of course there isn't Death anymore to organize the reapers, so someone bad might take advantage of that. It's been foreshadowed enough that I'm thinking Dean will step up and become Death. I'm more worried that Sam will (inexplicably) change his mind and decide once again that he wants a "normal life" and settle down (even if that doesn't make sense for his character - again) if and when Dean becomes Death.

 

I just mostly hope - like you - that there won't be delving into the blame game, because I'm so very tired of all of that.

[catrox14]

But that should've happened as soon as Death died I would think.

We don't know that it didn't happen. Death disintegrates. Then within moments the spell takes away the Mark to parts unknown and Sam and Dean leave the restaurant to be wrapped in the darkness.

I'm not sure how Death works, because for a long time he didn't have his ring, but people still died. The big problem - sort of, since it was all resolved offscreen and through a loophole (or loophole door if you will) - was when there were physical barriers to where the souls were supposed to go or when reapers weren't allowed to do their jobs. Of course there isn't Death anymore to organize the reapers, so someone bad might take advantage of that. It's been foreshadowed enough that I'm thinking Dean will step up and become Death. I'm more worried that Sam will (inexplicably) change his mind and decide once again that he wants a "normal life" and settle down (even if that doesn't make sense for his character - again) if and when Dean becomes Death.

I just mostly hope - like you - that there won't be delving into the blame game, because I'm so very tired of all of that.

The fact that it has been hinted at is why I think they'll go opposite. They have to give Sam a myth arc again now that dean's is over. Sam had visions and I f the theme is You can't outrun your past then maybe Sams "specialnness" is why he can be deafh

Dean was only death via the ring. It would've he giving us what we want in a way we don't expect.

[DittyDotDot]

Since reapers are a form of angel ::eyeroll:: maybe Cass can become Death? I'd be nice for Cass to actually have something to do for once.

[SueB]

I expect Cas to have a BIG piece of S11. I think his story was specifically delayed to S11 when they got the renewal.  I think Crowley got more resolution (with Rowena) than Cas did. And Metatron IMO will be a part of Cas' resolution.

 

hiatus beard: I expect those gone tomorrow.  I'm hoping Sam has GOOD HAIR -- nooooo to the helmet hair!

 

blame game: Since Dean assumes everything is his fault, I think he'll take on The Darkness as something he's responsible for (along with Sam). It'll be a "we" thing, not a "you" thing.  And yes, I can see the logic that since he didn't let Death put him on some planet elsewhere, Rowena's spell had a chance to work.  Logic is not relevant in the Winchester guilt equation IMO.

[Demented Daisy]

Dean is definitely going to blame himself.  If he hadn't (foolishly) taken on the Mark, none of it would have happened.  Wash, rinse, repeat.

[catrox14]

The thing is that I wonder if Dean will FINALLY realize that the person to blame is Crowley for getting him into that mess in the first place. He got played big time and I hope that now that the Mark is gone he'll realize that whilst yes he did say yes to the Mark, Crowley took advantage of his compromised emotional state just like Ruby did with Sam in s4.

 

That would be a pretty cool and new thing for Dean and Sam to finally say they've had enough of Crowley's bullshit.

[SueB]

Dean is definitely going to blame himself.  If he hadn't (foolishly) taken on the Mark, none of it would have happened.  Wash, rinse, repeat.

Exactly.  And then back it up further  ... because he couldn't let Sam die, he was emotionally a wreck after Kevin's death... so he was foolish and took on the Mark.

Now a step back again ... if they hadn't dug up Abaddon in the first place (after already having her safely buried), they wouldn't have needed the Blade/Mark....

Back it up even FURTHER ... he was the one to convince Sam they needed to close the gates of Hell.  If he hadn't insisted on doing THAT....

 

I'm telling ya, pretty soon it'll be back to the Black Plague.

Edited July 7, 2015 by SueB

[Mick Lady]

Dean is definitely going to blame himself.  If he hadn't (foolishly) taken on the Mark, none of it would have happened.  Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

I can so see this happening, much to my dread. But  as SueB taught me, "Fuck Carver" This blame game has gotten so old!

 

The thing is that I wonder if Dean will FINALLY realize that the person to blame is Crowley for getting him into that mess in the first place. He got played big time and I hope that now that the Mark is gone he'll realize that whilst yes he did say yes to the Mark, Crowley took advantage of his compromised emotional state just like Ruby did with Sam in s4.

 

That would be a pretty cool and new thing for Dean and Sam to finally say they've had enough of Crowley's bullshit.

 Crowley is so popular, I can't see the writers doing this, but wouldn't it be cool?

[Demented Daisy]

http://tvline.com/2015/07/06/supernatural-season-11-castiel-crowley-dead-or-alive/

 

Not a spoiler, but an interesting TVLine poll on what people think the new season will bring.  My favorite option is:

 

The Impala comes through for the rescue, acting as a protective shield between the boys and The Darkness.

 

 

That just makes me giggle.

[Demented Daisy]

I've been thinking about it and the Impala saving Sam and Dean is awesome in a hilarious way.

 

What if God somehow blessed the Impala so that the Winchesters never died in it?  Think about it!  They should have been in how many accidents over the years?  And the one they were in, no one died until they were out of the car, in the hospital!

 

Pretty much a literal "deus ex machina", which is one of the reasons I love the idea so much.  (The only way it would be more literal is if God possessed the Impala -- hey, maybe that's where God has been all these years!  He only popped into Chuck's body when he needed to talk to the boys!)

 

It makes me laugh, so the show would never go there.  But I think it would inject some much-needed levity.  The Carver administration has taken the show a little too seriously, methinks.

[DittyDotDot]

Pretty much a literal "deus ex machina", which is one of the reasons I love the idea so much.  (The only way it would be more literal is if God possessed the Impala -- hey, maybe that's where God has been all these years!  He only popped into Chuck's body when he needed to talk to the boys!)

 

Oh, that would be so very hilarious!

[catrox14]

I would be so on board with Baby actually being God not just possessed by God. I'd buy by that hook, line and sinker.

[Aeryn13]

 

They have to give Sam a myth arc again now that dean's is over.

 

Why? Previously, when Sam`s mytharc was over, they gave... Sam a new mytharc. And after that was over, they again gave Sam one. Dean`s mytharc scrambled into nothingness and now he is out of the running completely? It would fit with their sucky storytelling but it doesn`t have to be the case. And I would hate it a million times if Sam became Death. If Dean doesn`t become it, so be it, but it would blew chunks if they now even took every story idea for the character and gave it to Sam.

 

As for Carver`s interview, he once again manages to say nothing at all. I found the one question about Dean blaming himself annoyingly phrased because nope, Dean killing Death didn`t unleash the darkness. How much more clearer could they have made it that Rowena`s spell did the trick? And noone said the spell wouldn`t reach Dean wherever he was. 

 

I`m sure he will blame himself but the concept is already tiring. I hope to hear something about the character being build up and not torn down somewhere with blame, shame and guilt. And I doubt Sam will blame himself either. The episode didn`t give any real motivation for Sam`s sudden "okay, kill me then, here have some pictures" turn but it was quite clear that Death`s warnings about the Darkness didn`t play any part. He didn`t seem to put much stock in them. Maybe the black cloud of doom will change his mind but since I predict it will premiere with a whimper rather than a bang, maybe not so much.

 

They will ask themselves about the concept of Death? I`m pretty sure, people will still be able to die just fine. If capital D-Death is personified or not. The writers are not remotely skillful enough to write a world full of immortals. 

[AwesomO4000]

Why? Previously, when Sam`s mytharc was over, they gave... Sam a new mytharc. And after that was over, they again gave Sam one.

 

My opinion here: When Sam's mytharc was over, they gave a mytharc to Castiel and Crowley that I remember with a small one for Dean after that. After Sam fell into the hole, the only other mytharc (which in my definition = plot) that I remember for Sam was the half year stint where he was supposed to close the gates of hell and didn't. Sam had some emotional arcs - being soulless, being crazy, and being possessed by Gadreel, but Sam himself was not involved in any plot arcs during any of those. None of those states of being had anything to do with Sam affecting the plot * (Gadreel affected the plot himself, but Sam was just a vessel). The other emotional arc - Sam "hitting a dog" - should almost count as a minus considering how much it had absolutely nothing to do with the main plot at all or even any of the other main characters (At least Dean's emotional arc had something to do with Castiel.)

 

* For example, soulless Sam didn't really have any insight into or impact on figuring out anything about Castiel / Crowley, nor did Hallucifer have any special insight into beating the Leviathans.

[Aeryn13]

 

When Sam's mytharc was over, they gave a mytharc to Castiel and Crowley that I remember with a small one for Dean after that.

 

I think Soulless Sam was at least part of the Cas/Crowley arc and it featured heavily in the first half of the Season. Compare that with the barely three episodes of Demon!Dean. Then came the Lucifer hellucinations which were at least a supernatural condition. Then came the trials mytharc. Dean, after they made a joke out of his arc in Seasons 4 and 5, didn`t have any mytharc at all for my money (no, not remotely in Season 7 either) during the years 6 to 9 and a half. The first one he got was the Mark and in the end, that went equally as nowhere as closing the gates of hell. 

 

So basically, having nothing for 3 and a half years, followed up with having something to do for 1 and a half years but with no meaningful resolution, I don`t think it necessitates he should once again get nothing because he "had his turn" or something. I`ve been waiting for a real turn, with beginning, middle and satisfying end now for ten years and counting.