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SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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catrox14

catrox14

Okay Cain looked great but why is Cain all MURRRRRDERRRR again. 

 

Is he forgetting that he felt connected to Dean from the start and seemed to really like Dean and had asked to Dean come and kill him when he called on him? But now it seems to be not what Cain wants? 

 

Is he upset because apparently Cas found him before Cain was ready to be found....?

 

Why do I even ask why of these writers anymore :(/

 

Wait I know. It will be a cautionary tale that Dean can't really control it if Cain doesn't anymore? 

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7kstar

7kstar

BATTLE OF THE TERRIBLE HAIR! In this corner, we have the Silver Fox. And in this corner, we have Thoroughly Modern Millie!

ah poor Millie takes the first dive and loses the blade...you cracked me up with this...now how am I suppose to take this seriously when it airs? 

 

Well the last we saw Cain he was killing everyone without the blade,  so I guess losing his bee home really pissed him off.  So since he can't kill Crowley, Dean gets the blame.  Now the real question, will Dean's mark be strong enough to stop Cain or is this the excuse to turn Dean into a Demon again????

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catrox14

catrox14

ah poor Millie takes the first dive and loses the blade...you cracked me up with this...now how am I suppose to take this seriously when it airs? 

 

Well the last we saw Cain he was killing everyone without the blade,  so I guess losing his bee home really pissed him off.  So since he can't kill Crowley, Dean gets the blame.  Now the real question, will Dean's mark be strong enough to stop Cain or is this the excuse to turn Dean into a Demon again????

 

I would love to see demon!Dean fight Cain.  That would be all kinds of badass.  Of course the person that could actually stop the whole thing is Cas....since he has angel juice again...but you know...

Why can't Cain kill Crowley?  Also Cain was only killing demons in his house and he said for Dean to come and kill him when he calls him. 

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

Oh pooh...no stylish hat? I was so hoping for a stylish hat. ::pouts:: They never listen to me. Why don't they ever listen to me?  ;(

 

 

Okay Cain looked great but why is Cain all MURRRRRDERRRR again. 

 

Oh, I'm sure it'll be that Cain fell off the wagon back in First Born and could never get his sobriety back.

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catrox14

catrox14

Oh, dear Chuck, I hope not.  I'm tired of seeing these two punished for their good deeds.

Since they went to all the trouble to kill Dean and resurrecti him as a demon, the least they could do is make it meaningful and have him do something besides bad karaoke, slut shaming his sex partners, killing persons of questionable ethics and other demons, and chasing Sammy through the lair.

I wonder if Cain knew that Dean was a demon? Because if he didn't then he would not be aware that killing Dean will resurrect a more powerful foe. That would really be kinda f cool.

I would kind of love it if Cain goes after Sam or Cas and the only way Dean can stop him is to become a demon again.

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7kstar

7kstar

Since they went to all the trouble to kill Dean and resurrecti him as a demon, the least they could do is make it meaningful and have him do something besides bad karaoke, slut shaming his sex partners, killing persons of questionable ethics and other demons, and chasing Sammy through the lair.

I wonder if Cain knew that Dean was a demon? Because if he didn't then he would not be aware that killing Dean will resurrect a more powerful foe. That would really be kinda f cool.

I would kind of love it if Cain goes after Sam or Cas and the only way Dean can stop him is to become a demon again.

My question I'm starting to wonder...if Dean gets killed with the blade could that really kill him.    So what will happen when the mark wants it's host to survive?  You have two marks...one has had it a lot longer and has learned a lot more than Dean. 

 

Yes Cain asked Dean to kill him, but that was before he told them to leave and he killed a house full of demons without the blade.  So that turned him really dark again and he doesn't have Collette to bring him back from the dark side. 

 

What would be cool if TFW is the turning factor...that Dean gets through to Cain.  We've seen him do it his Dad, Bobby so can he do it with Cain?   I'm also hoping for Sam and Cas to have a hand in doing something helpful and not just waiting on the sidelines hoping Dean makes it out alive.                        

 

So on one hand I'm looking forward to this ep, and the other is dreading what stupid thing they think will work but haven't really thought out and causes a major fail. 

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catrox14

catrox14

My question I'm starting to wonder...if Dean gets killed with the blade could that really kill him.    So what will happen when the mark wants it's host to survive?  You have two marks...one has had it a lot longer and has learned a lot more than Dean. 

 

Yes Cain asked Dean to kill him, but that was before he told them to leave and he killed a house full of demons without the blade.  So that turned him really dark again and he doesn't have Collette to bring him back from the dark side. 

 

What would be cool if TFW is the turning factor...that Dean gets through to Cain.  We've seen him do it his Dad, Bobby so can he do it with Cain?   I'm also hoping for Sam and Cas to have a hand in doing something helpful and not just waiting on the sidelines hoping Dean makes it out alive.                        

 

So on one hand I'm looking forward to this ep, and the other is dreading what stupid thing they think will work but haven't really thought out and causes a major fail.

Dean's investment in Cain is to figure out how to get rid of the Mark so he needs him alive if Cain even knows how to get rid of it. But there is no love between them and at this point the show is not acknowledging the little nugget dropped by Michael that they are in Cains bloodline, so I don't see why TFW would even care if Cain is a good man or would try to save him other than what he can do for them.

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SueB

SueB

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You have two marks...one has had it a lot longer and has learned a lot more than Dean.

Wouldn't THAT be interesting.  Clearly the blade comes to Cain.  What if it prefers to stay with Cain?  Would the bloodlust leave Dean if the Mark was busy feeding off of Cain?  

 

Somehow I don't think Dean will let that happen.  Because Cain looks off his rocker.  And if they find Cain because he's got his murder on?  Then Dean will feel obliged to end him.  

 

And suddenly the First Blade has become the Elder Wand (Harry Potter shout out!).  With whom does it's loyalty lie?  Cain because he had the Blade the longest (but also dumped it into the Marianas trench) or Dean because he had it last?  Using the Elder Wand analogy, in the preview Cain tosses Dean thru the wall. So maybe Cain wins back the loyalty of the Blade?  OTOH, again, I don't see Dean letting Cain just run off and start slaughtering again.  So... Dean may save Cain by killing him. How...How the hell would I know?  But that's my predict.  Dean kills Cain to stop him (or even save him in Dean's mind).  

 

Carver said the MoC was going to be a plot for the whole season...so, I think it sticks around.  

 

Now don't be too sure to believe me...I had to eat my hat over Gretel.  The tied up girl was Tina, not Gretel, in "About A Boy"...so I was wrong about that prediction.

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rue721

rue721

Nice clip! I wonder what Cain's up to? They say in the title for that clip that he's out for "vengeance," but vengeance for what? Against whom?

 

I'm also really curious about the First Blade stuff. Why is the First Blade even coming out right now? Why does Crowley (or Rowena) want to give it to either Dean or Cain at the moment? Are they hoping to set up some kind of death match?

 

You know the idea of training pit bulls to see cats as food/prey, and then putting two dogs in a "ring" and throwing in a cat, so that they'll go both go after the cat, and then turn on each other as they fight each other for it? I wonder if Crowley or Rowena decided to toss the First Blade between Dean and Cain in order to goad them into tearing each other apart in a fight over it, similarly to the way that someone would throw a cat into the ring between two pit bulls.

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MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND

MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND

Nice clip! I wonder what Cain's up to? They say in the title for that clip that he's out for "vengeance," but vengeance for what? Against whom?

 

I'm also really curious about the First Blade stuff. Why is the First Blade even coming out right now? Why does Crowley (or Rowena) want to give it to either Dean or Cain at the moment? Are they hoping to set up some kind of death match?

 

You know the idea of training pit bulls to see cats as food/prey, and then putting two dogs in a "ring" and throwing in a cat, so that they'll go both go after the cat, and then turn on each other as they fight each other for it? I wonder if Crowley or Rowena decided to toss the First Blade between Dean and Cain in order to goad them into tearing each other apart in a fight over it, similarly to the way that someone would throw a cat into the ring between two pit bulls.

I am wondering if Cain is killing Demons so Crowley wants Dean to kill him?

 

FINALLY Cain!

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SueB

SueB

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Nice clip! I wonder what Cain's up to? They say in the title for that clip that he's out for "vengeance," but vengeance for what? Against whom?

Well maybe he's trying to set a Guiness record: "Most serial kills, one person at a time, in a single year."

Seriously, that mass grave site is freaky.  And what a wonderfully simple way of using little mounds of dirt to creep the hell out of people.  A+ set/production design.

 

Do demons have an eidetic memory memory? Just from that clip, the latest murder seemed personal.  Like wiping out a lineage.  Did this family line short change him on a horse in 1820 or something?  

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catrox14

catrox14

Well maybe he's trying to set a Guiness record: "Most serial kills, one person at a time, in a single year."

Seriously, that mass grave site is freaky.  And what a wonderfully simple way of using little mounds of dirt to creep the hell out of people.  A+ set/production design.

 

Do demons have an eidetic memory memory? Just from that clip, the latest murder seemed personal.  Like wiping out a lineage.  Did this family line short change him on a horse in 1820 or something?

I always though the show did so well with practical FX. Like in 4.1 they made Deans grave so creepy and all the trees around it. This clip felt like the creepy/spooky/eerie stiff from s4

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

(edited)

Creepy is something this show has been missing, I think.  And the idea of Cain hating who he is, and what he did, so much that he punishes everyone for it?

 

Yep, creepy as hell.  And potentially awesome.

Edited by Demented Daisy
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SueB

SueB

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(edited)

EXPECTATION WARNING!  I expect the episode to be awesome, but not necessarily awesome with anything I speculate apriori.  

 

I don't know if he'd go after his personal entire FAMILY line, but SOMETHING is connecting the victims I suspect.  And "personal" motivation seems likely.  

 

Extended trailer: real SPOILERS be here...

https://twitter.com/cw_spn/status/566289764634984449

 

So Cas can't do it, it's Dean's turn.  And I'm guessing Crowley cooperates because HE can't kill Cain -- just like he couldn't kill Abbadon.

Edited by SueB
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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

Tv Line spoilers -- not much here, either.

 

http://tvline.com/2015/02/16/good-wife-season-6-spoilers-alicia-kalinda/

 

Will Sam meet Cain in this week’s Supernatural episode? Is there going to be a parallel between Cain/Abel and Sam/Dean? –JJ

 

The Winchesters will certainly be hoping that Cain can help them out with their Mark problem. “Let me say this: I think the episode with Cain is really great,” executive producer Jeremy Carver says of Timothy Omundson’s return on Tuesday. When Dean seeks out the former Knight of Hell for some guidance, “from Cain’s point of view, he thinks he’s being helpful. That’s cagey and mysterious and deliberate in the way I’m saying that. But once you see the episode, you’ll see what I mean.”

 

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

(edited)

When Dean first got the Mark from Cain, I speculated (elsewhere) that the Mark would transfer to Sam when he killed Dean.  To save him, of course.  Like Cain killed Abel to save him.

 

Hmmm.  Can't help but wonder if the show is going to travel this (well-worn) road.  I'm not the only one to have speculated this -- just like most people guessed correctly about Demon Dean.  

 

They wouldn't do something so obvious... again.  Right?

Edited by Demented Daisy
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catrox14

catrox14

When Dean first got the Mark from Cain, I speculated (elsewhere) that the Mark would transfer to Sam when he killed Dean.  To save him, of course.  Like Cain killed Abel to save him.

 

Hmmm.  Can't help but wonder if the show is going to travel this (well-worn) road.  I'm not the only one to have speculated this -- just like most people guessed correctly about Demon Dean.  

 

They wouldn't do something so obvious... again.  Right?

That has been my spec all along. That somehow Sam ends up with it. My spec is largely born out of bitterness that pretty much every mytharc Dean has had ends up with another character the vessel wars, , the trials, etc.

I'm actually shocked that Deans MoC thing has lasted as long as it has, but then they spent two years building up Dean being Mchaels chosen vessel only to say.... Never mind. So yep I'm still leery.

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SueB

SueB

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If it requires a choice on Dean's part to give Sam the Mark, not in a million-billion years.  How could the Mark be FORCED from Dean onto Sam? I'm not sure.  Seems to me "Free Will" is pretty important to this show.  I don't think any witch's spell would do it.

 

I DO think that witches will be involved as the season progresses.  We've got all the indicators of a coming show-down with Rowena and the Grand Coven.  Now add Crowley into the mix.  Who the hell knows WHAT will go down but I think a great deal of the action will be tied to witches.  Now with Crowley having lost control of the Blade, Rowena forcing Dean to do her bidding (ala Cuthbert Sinclair) seems unlikely.  So... I don't know what will happen next.

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catrox14

catrox14

I could see it being as contrived as Sam grabbing Dean's arm when Dean is trying to kill Sam and then Dean wishes to himself that he would give anything to not have the Mark anymore because then he wouldn't be compelled to kill Sam. The universe complies by transferring it to Sam.  Its not Dean's will that Sam would have it, but the universe grants Dean that wish in the worst possible way. 

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rue721

rue721

I DO think that witches will be involved as the season progresses.  We've got all the indicators of a coming show-down with Rowena and the Grand Coven.  Now add Crowley into the mix.  Who the hell knows WHAT will go down but I think a great deal of the action will be tied to witches.  Now with Crowley having lost control of the Blade, Rowena forcing Dean to do her bidding (ala Cuthbert Sinclair) seems unlikely.  So... I don't know what will happen next.

 

I think maybe Crowley will be loyal to Rowena over Dean from now on. He was more loyal to Dean in this past episode, and then Dean paid him back by playing him. So I doubt Crowley's going to make that mistake again. And as shitty as Rowena is, I guess if Dean is a liar/betrayer, too, than she's not necessarily any worse than he is! (At least from Crowley's POV).

I could see it being as contrived as Sam grabbing Dean's arm when Dean is trying to kill Sam and then Dean wishes to himself that he would give anything to not have the Mark anymore because then he wouldn't be compelled to kill Sam. The universe complies by transferring it to Sam.  Its not Dean's will that Sam would have it, but the universe grants Dean that wish in the worst possible way. 

 

I hope that after yearsssss of this Mark of Cain storyline, they aren't going to try and keep that SL going for even longer by transferring the MoC to Sam and having us hit all these same story beats all over again with him.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Thinking more about the Mark...Cain didn't lose the Mark when copied it onto Dean.  So Sam getting it wouldn't free Dean of the Mark anyway.

 

Oh man. I can totally picture them having Sam get the Mark inadvertently and then both he and Dean have the Mark.  Maybe they would decide to wipe out Crowley and Rowena together because you know it keeps the boys together and not at odds.

Edited by catrox14
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rue721

rue721

Oh man. I can totally picture them having Sam get the Mark inadvertently and then both he and Dean have the Mark.

 

To be honest, I'm hoping for this. If they both have the Mark, and they're both killed, then maybe they'll both become demons! I still have my fingers crossed for the Demon!Winchester Brothers running amok through Hell, pulling John out of Heaven, doing all kinds of batshit stuff. How fun and bizarre would that be?!

 

The only reason I can think of that Dean would give Sam the Mark is if Sam seems like he's going to be killed -- since the Mark sort of makes its bearer immortal.

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catrox14

catrox14

 

The only reason I can think of that Dean would give Sam the Mark is if Sam seems like he's going to be killed -- since the Mark sort of makes its bearer immortal.

 

If Dean gave Sam the Mark to save his life, knowing what it does to a man and that it could make Sam into a demon? That would be just no. Dean wouldn't do that. But demon!Dean? He might.

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rue721

rue721

(edited)

If Dean gave Sam the Mark to save his life, knowing what it does to a man and that it could make Sam into a demon? That would be just no. Dean wouldn't do that. But demon!Dean? He might.

 

Idk, couldn't Dean figure that he'd give him the Mark, let him become a demon, and then cure him (like Sam did for him already)?

 

I don't think Dean would do that unless it were INCREDIBLY dire straits because apparently, having the MoC sucks. But Dean has never backed down from his "save Sam at all costs" thing, so I think he'd be willing to go there if the only alternative were to let Sam die.

 

My (not entirely serious) spec:

 

-- Cain is correct and Dean has to kill Sam.

 

-- Right before killing him, Dean gives Sam the Mark, so that Sam can be killed without really dying.

 

-- Dean thinks Sam will become a demon, but counts on being able to cure him.

 

-- But then Dean is taken by surprise and killed himself (maybe by Crowley?), so instead of curing Sam, he becomes a demon, too.

 

-- (And then KingofHell!Crowley has the Demon!Winchester brothers on a leash, and gets to show Rowena who's the big man now. :P)

Edited by rue721
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catrox14

catrox14

Idk, couldn't Dean figure that he'd give him the Mark, let him become a demon, and then cure him (like Sam did for him already)?

 

I don't think Dean would do that unless it were INCREDIBLY dire straits because apparently, having the MoC sucks. But Dean has never backed down from his "save Sam at all costs" thing, so I think he'd be willing to go there if the only alternative were to let Sam die.

 

My (not entirely serious) spec:

 

-- Cain is correct and Dean has to kill Sam.

 

-- Right before killing him, Dean gives Sam the Mark, so that Sam can be killed without really dying.

 

-- Dean thinks Sam will become a demon, but counts on being able to cure him.

 

-- But then Dean is taken by surprise and killed himself (maybe by Crowley?), so instead of curing Sam, he becomes a demon, too.

 

-- (And then KingofHell!Crowley has the Demon!Winchester brothers on a leash, and gets to show Rowena who's the big man now. :P)

 

 Dean knowingly allowing Sam to take on the Mark  is far worse than the angel possession.  Because Dean knows exactly what will happen to Sam. He knows he'll have the bloodlust etc. I think he'd rather Sam be dead than go through what he's been going through.

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oliverwendell

oliverwendell

(edited)

 

I think that Dean might prefer *anything* to Sam being dead.

 

The question I have about the Cain/Abel-Dean/Sam parallel is, if Cain killed Abel to keep him from becoming Lucifer's bitch, what will Dean feel he has to save Sam from that is so horrible that killing him is a better option?  Because they kind of have to set that up, IMO, for the parallelism to work and because there's pretty much no reason why Dean would kill Sam unless it was to save him from something worse.  Still, rue makes a good point about Dean and his general opinion about Sam being dead. Anyone have any ideas?  

 

He won't kill him, though, obvs. But I am rocking back and forth muttering about him killing Crowley and Castiel.  NO! I like them!  Leave them alone!!

Edited by fourteenwords
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catrox14

catrox14

I think that Dean might prefer *anything* to Sam being dead.

 

I can't imagine after all the stuff that happened when Dean didn't allow Sam to die in s9 that he would repeat that same thing again only this time it would be Sam potentially becoming a demon.

The question I have about the Cain/Abel-Dean/Sam parallel is, if Cain killed Abel to keep him from becoming Lucifer's bitch, what will Dean feel he has to save Sam from that is so horrible that killing him is a better option?  Because they kind of have to set that up, IMO, for the parallelism to work and because there's pretty much no reason why Dean would kill Sam unless it was to save him from something worse.  Still, rue makes a good point about Dean and his general opinion about Sam being dead. Anyone have any ideas?  

 

He won't kill him, though, obvs. But I am rocking back and forth muttering about him killing Crowley and Castiel.  NO! I like them!  Leave them alone!!

 

I think it would have to be Sam going dark side again.  Jared was being coy at a con saying he thought there was still some demony to Sam. He was being very cagey about it.  If Dean allowed Sam to take on the Mark, then Dean really did not learn anything at all in s9.  I'd like to think Dean is not that stupid.

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rue721

rue721

I can't imagine after all the stuff that happened when Dean didn't allow Sam to die in s9 that he would repeat that same thing again only this time it would be Sam potentially becoming a demon.

 

Afaik, Dean never regretted not allowing Sam to die in S9. Even when Sam confronted him about it, Dean was adamant that he'd do it again. Then, in the S9 finale, *Sam* was the one who came around to *Dean's* way of thinking and refused to let Dean go. As far as I could tell, Dean was happy about that, too.

 

Dean has never agreed with Sam that it would have been better for him to let Sam die. I don't think that he's likely to start now, especially if he'd have to be the one to kill Sam himself.

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oliverwendell

oliverwendell

(edited)

I also remember that Jeremy was also very coy in a recent interview, saying Sam had a story coming up that will spin into next season and involves what he does to help Dean get rid of the Mark.  Maybe he does decide to go after Lucifer -- "the source," as Metatron hinted.  Maybe he has to drink a bunch of demon blood to do it.  I've been discounting that theory, but something's in the wind involving Sam and dark choices, that's for sure.

Edited by fourteenwords
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SueB

SueB

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Sam and Dean. Demon Demon Hunters At Large.  This sounds like a crackfic waiting to be written. 

 

Actually, I'd pay real money for them to go to an AU where that was happening.  Sort of like the Mirrorverse in Star Trek.

 

To me, the school solution (akin to Dean turns into a Demon) is for Dean to NOT kill Sam and thus break the curse.  Seriously, when has Dean Winchester EVER done anything that destiny insisted he do?  Like EVER? As he said in 9.1 ""inevitable" – that's a fightin' word where I come from. There's always a way."

 

I will be uber-pissed if he kills Crowley or Castiel.  For Crowley I'll rant and rave.  For Cas, I'll go full-on rage monster.  I'd be less worried if he killed Sam because we have a S11.  I know...weird.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Afaik, Dean never regretted not allowing Sam to die in S9. Even when Sam confronted him about it, Dean was adamant that he'd do it again. Then, in the S9 finale, *Sam* was the one who came around to *Dean's* way of thinking and refused to let Dean go. As far as I could tell, Dean was happy about that, too.

 

Dean has never agreed with Sam that it would have been better for him to let Sam die. I don't think that he's likely to start now, especially if he'd have to be the one to kill Sam himself.

 

Different situations. 

 

Dean didn't regret letting an angel possess Sam because it was going to heal Sam and he didn't know that Ezekiel was really Gadreel and Cas vouched for who Dean thought was Ezekiel. ean allowed Crowley to possess Sam so Sam could boot Gadreel out and Crowley honored that deal, as Crowley does generally. 

 

The difference is that Dean did all that BEFORE the Mark turned him into a killer and a demon.  Given that Dean knows what it's like to be a demon, I really don't think he'd want that for Sam. It's a fate worse than death. Even if demon!Dean said he liked the disease, regular!Dean knows that Sam doesn't deserve to be a demon given everything else Sam has been through (Dean didn't deserve to be a demon either).

 

Viewers tolerated demon!Dean mostly, they've accepted MoC!Dean and they've tolerated Dean allowing the Gadreel possession for the most part. But if Dean knowingly permitted something that would turn Sam into a demon vs dying?  I think that would be a bridge too far. 

 

And if TPTB wanted people to really hate Dean irrevocably, him allowing Sam to be turned into a demon would do it

Edited by catrox14
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rue721

rue721

It's a fate worse than death.

 

I disagree that Dean would think so, though.

 

Afaik, Dean has never thought that *anything* is worse than death when it comes to Sam. Nothing.

 

Once Dean was willing to sell his soul for Sam's life -- because apparently he thought that an eternity in Hell was better than Sam dying -- imo all bets were off the table. Since then, I think that he's only confirmed and reconfirmed that there's *nothing* that he'd put before Sam staying alive. He said that explicitly when he asked Sam to stop the Trials. Sam has gotten very angry at him over that (esp w/r/t the possession in particular), but afaik, Dean has never backed down.

 

I think that if Sam gets wind that Dean *has* to kill Sam, Sam might try to make a deal with Dean. A deal such as:  if Dean gives him the Mark, then Sam will be functionally immortal -- so Dean will be able to kill him (like Cain says he must and that I think he probably will have to somehow) without Sam actually having to die.

 

Or, I think that Sam might come up with that plan on his own, and if Dean refuses to go along with it or if Sam thinks he'll refuse to go along with it, Sam might find some way to trick Dean into giving him the Mark to those same ends.

 

I think the wrench in the works is going to be Crowley. Crowley's going to get Dean back for playing him the way he did in this episode. He has to even just as a matter of pride, imo, now that Rowena has declared that Crowley and Dean's "friendship" is some kind of dominance game that Crowley was already losing (and that Crowley was ruining his reputation and thus endangering his position as King of Hell as a result of so visibly losing).

 

I think that in order to keep Rowena's (supposed) respect/love and to stay King of Hell, Crowley might decide he needs to publicly humiliate/play/denounce Dean. I think that Crowley's likely to do that with Rowena's "help," because I think that Rowena is trying to make Crowley as dependent on her as possible, in order to get as much control over Crowley as possible. But I doubt that Dean will see any of  that coming, just because he never seems to think much about Crowley at all.

 

Where Cas is likely to come in, imo, is that he will be more or less powerless to help, since he's fading away. I really hope that this is Cas's last season. Misha Collins seems like a great guy and all, but Cas's story is clearly over. (I feel basically the same about Mark Sheppard/Crowley, except that I actually *am* interested in human!Crowley and am even OK with the Rowena storyline in particular. I feel like there's a place on the show for Crowley if he's powered down or even made human somehow. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that Crowley is a 300+ year old demon and King of Hell *and* the (fairly sensitive? and bitter/disillusioned?) character as he's currently portrayed).

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ohjoy
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Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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