Spoilers With Speculation

[SueB]

13 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

That's all in one episode though. It's in character for whatever sorry ass version of Lucifer, Dabb and Berens constructed as of 11.21 but IMO it's not the Lucifer that existed prior to 11.21.  Lucifer was deadly, murderous and evil and he had a purpose and mission. He wanted people on his side. He would manipulate them to get what he wanted and if that didn't work he killed them.  He didn't waste time playing games. He snapped Rowena's neck as soon as she got him out of the cage.  IMO the way Lucifer has been written since 11.21 is a completely different character than the Lucifer that existed prior to leaving the Cage.

Completely?  Well, I'll agree to disagree with you on that. 

[DittyDotDot]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

And I will be interested to see what Luci's powers are in the AU.  We have a flash of Michael manhandling him in one of the previews so I suspect he doesn't have the same juice in the AU.  Although I admit, Mary looks too weirdly calm standing next to him. Depends on how the scene plays out. 

Yeah, I was a bit baffled by Mary's calmness, but those pictures may be after it's obvious Luci doesn't have the juice he did in the other universe. 

Although, perhaps it's not so much that Lucifer doesn't have the juice as much as Micheal just has so much more...maybe it has something to do with winning the war over there and having all the souls instead of sharing them with Hell? Oh, Lucifer's power should come from Hell and will him being locked away from his Hell might have something to do with it too.

43 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

That's all in one episode though. It's in character for whatever sorry ass version of Lucifer, Dabb and Berens constructed as of 11.21 but IMO it's not the Lucifer that existed prior to 11.21.  Lucifer was deadly, murderous and evil and he had a purpose and mission. He wanted people on his side. He would manipulate them to get what he wanted and if that didn't work he killed them.  He didn't waste time playing games. He snapped Rowena's neck as soon as she got him out of the cage.  IMO the way Lucifer has been written since 11.21 is a completely different character than the Lucifer that existed prior to leaving the Cage.

Well, being locked in a cage for a few years after losing the one big battle you've spent most of your life preparing for could cause someone to reevaluate and make some changes...just sayin'.

Edited October 6, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

15 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Well, being locked in a cage for a few years after losing the one big battle you've spent most of your life preparing for could cause someone to reevaluate and make some changes...just sayin'

 We can agree to disagree. That's how I see Lucifer. JMHO

[companionenvy]

7 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

Well, being locked in a cage for a few years after losing the one big battle you've spent most of your life preparing for could cause someone to reevaluate and make some changes...just sayin'.

In theory, yes, but I haven't seen any evidence of that. If a post-cage Lucifer kind-of-sort-of reconciling with his father didn't fundamentally change him, I can't see why he would turn white (or even gray) hat now.

I think those of you who think Lucifer is depowered are probably right. 

Edited October 6, 2017 by companionenvy

[DittyDotDot]

4 hours ago, companionenvy said:

In theory, yes, but I haven't seen any evidence of that. If a post-cage Lucifer kind-of-sort-of reconciling with his father didn't fundamentally change him, I can't see why he would turn white (or even gray) hat now.

I wasn't suggesting that Lucifer had turned white or gray, but just offering an option to why Lucifer might not be the same Lucifer from S5 in terms of wanting to play with his food as @catrox14 was asserting. Personally, I don't think Lucifer is being written any differently at all--which is actually my problem with the whole thing--I think he's always liked to play with his food, especially when that food is Moose and Squirrel. ;)

[Diane]

Can't wait!

[DittyDotDot]

8 minutes ago, Diane said:

Can't wait!

Eeeexxcelent!!! ;)

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I wasn't suggesting that Lucifer had turned white or gray, but just offering an option to why Lucifer might not be the same Lucifer from S5 in terms of wanting to play with his food as @catrox14 was asserting. Personally, I don't think Lucifer is being written any differently at all--which is actually my problem with the whole thing--I think he's always liked to play with his food, especially when that food is Moose and Squirrel. ;)

To be clear, I wasn't  and I'm not suggesting that Lucifer is a different Lucifer, like a different character or a doppelganger or anything like that. I'm saying that I think the writing of Lucifer from 11.21 forward is different for plot reasons to set up the creation of the nephilim, which had  the intentional or unintentional side effect of changing IMO Lucifer's characterization at the end of 11 and into s12.

Death called Lucifer a bratty teenager but IMO that's because Lucifer was controlling him and he hated it.  But personally,, I never though Lucifer behaved like the bratty teenage he was made out to be in 11.21. Robbie wanted a bratty Lucifer to play up family drama in 11.21. But then by the time 11.21 was over Chuck had apologized to Lucifer, and Lucifer agreed to join Team Kill Amara. Prior to that episode he was being clever, smart, devious, calculating Lucifer who manipulated  Rowena, Sam and Cas in order to free himself from the Cage and IMO try to take over Heaven, Hell and Earth again. He had a plan to get out of the Cage and sent messages to Sam and Rowena to get them to help him. Even the Lucifer played by Misha wasn't just doing random things for random reasons.  He was methodical and had a plan.

Even at the beginning of s12, I remember thinking okay, getting into a rock star to take over the world made sense, but then that changed into breaking Daddy's toys because he left again, which what?  He wasn't changed in 11.21 to being all 'I want my Dad' not that I recollect. When he showed up in POTUS, I thought well this is stupid but okay world domination via POTUS I can buy and even the putridity of him raping and impregnating Kelly  was devious and evil and well a plan for the most powerful weapon on Earth (non anti-Christ divsion) that he could control. But nope that got turned into "I'm gonna be the bestest dad ever!" I was like okay who is this guy LOL but not in an actual doppelganger way.

As to him playing with his food, I think that is also a regression. He started messing with Sam when he refused to say yes, so he escalated. He used whatever tactics he need to frighten, cajole etc.  It was tactical and strategic vs petty for the sake of petty.  Zachariah on the other hand, was petty for the sake of petty 

 I don't think Lucifer is a different character, more that  his characterization has been changed for plot reasons.

[catrox14]

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Ooooh!  That looks good!  People in Venetian Mardi-gras/bird masks - I always think they look a little creepy.  I think I saw Jody get stabbed.  NOT COOL, SHOW!  And was that Spawn at the end opening the door to The Cage?  Hm...  

[DittyDotDot]

Oooooh creepy...creepy good!

Eh, I wouldn't worry about Jodi, @RulerofallIsurvey, we know she's set to lead the spin off, so she can't be killed...right?....RIGHT?...someone tell me I'm right...ah, shit. 

[catrox14]

So Dean wasn't trying to kill Spawn with that angel blade. He was trying to protect Donatello. 

Apparently Lucifer does indeed have smiting powers in the AU, so why he's just not killing Mary is inexplicable.

I like seeing Lucifer in that other cage thing and if that's what Michael is doing to Lucifer count me in on Team Michael LOL

1 minute ago, DittyDotDot said:

Oooooh creepy...creepy good!

Eh, I wouldn't worry about Jodi, @RulerofallIsurvey, we know she's set to lead the spin off, so she can't be killed...right?....RIGHT?...someone tell me I'm right...ah, shit. 

Unless that business about "a world without the Winchesters" means that the spinoff is something in the AU or an alternate time line? I dunno. Maybe she's hallucinating or dreaming since Dean seems to be hallucinating with him ripping off his own fucking face. That is DISGUSTING by the way, show. 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

2 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Oooooh creepy...creepy good!

Yes!  I like creepy!  (The things this show makes me write!)

3 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Eh, I wouldn't worry about Jodi, @RulerofallIsurvey, we know she's set to lead the spin off, so she can't be killed...right?....RIGHT?...someone tell me I'm right...ah, shit. 

I know - I thought the same thing.  But still, it's kind of strange, I think, how in all the years Jodi has been around, I don't recall her being critically injured.  I mean, she got her leg broken, but not the same as being stabbed in the gut, imo.  If this is after Cas comes back, maybe he heals her.  Or I wonder if they have Jack do it?  If Jack can heal people like angels can, that is.

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Apparently Lucifer does indeed have smiting powers in the AU, so why he's just not killing Mary is inexplicable.

I noticed that too.  Maybe they're limited smiting powers - like only demons are affected?  Or, as someone speculated awhile ago, he realizes he needs to keep Mary around cause Sam and Dean will probably open the rift to find her and that's his way out.  Otherwise, I got nothin'.  

[Jonesy]

Nice job by them as usual...by the way I love the ripping off of the face--back to some old school hardcore horror, bit edgy.  I like it.

[catrox14]

I don't think Dean is threatening Spawn, I think it's someone else.

Just now, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I noticed that too.  Maybe they're limited smiting powers - like only demons are affected?  Or, as someone speculated awhile ago, he realizes he needs to keep Mary around cause Sam and Dean will probably open the rift to find her and that's his way out.  Otherwise, I got nothin'.  

Even in the AU the demons spratz out with the yellow color, and that was blue angel grace, so I think he was smiting an angel. Unless that was a fakeout and it was actually Michael doing the smiting. 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Even in the AU the demons spratz out with the yellow color, and that was blue angel grace, so I think he was smiting an angel. Unless that was a fakeout and it was actually Michael doing the smiting. 

Do they?  I don't remember from last season.  All I recall is the bluish-grey smoke from the smiting in the clip - so I just attributed it to the monotone-ish color of the AU.  But you could be right.  Maybe they were Michael's minions.

[DittyDotDot]

4 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I know - I thought the same thing.  But still, it's kind of strange, I think, how in all the years Jodi has been around, I don't recall her being critically injured.  I mean, she got her leg broken, but not the same as being stabbed in the gut, imo.  If this is after Cas comes back, maybe he heals her.  Or I wonder if they have Jack do it?  If Jack can heal people like angels can, that is.

She was stabbed with, I think, a crowbar in that episode where the boys get re-virginated, but it was apparently nothing serious... .

I'm guessing it's EP3--the one with Missouri--and I'd also guess she is either not critically injured by the stabbing (see above) or it's the Spawn who heals her.

[Casseiopeia]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

So Dean wasn't trying to kill Spawn with that angel blade. He was trying to protect Donatello. 

Apparently Lucifer does indeed have smiting powers in the AU, so why he's just not killing Mary is inexplicable.

I like seeing Lucifer in that other cage thing and if that's what Michael is doing to Lucifer count me in on Team Michael LOL

Unless that business about "a world without the Winchesters" means that the spinoff is something in the AU or an alternate time line? I dunno. Maybe she's hallucinating or dreaming since Dean seems to be hallucinating with him ripping off his own fucking face. That is DISGUSTING by the way, show. 

I think Jody being killed is a premonition from the new character whats her name soon to be a WWS.

[catrox14]

Are Jody and Donna going to be a couple or is Jody coming out as bi? What do you guys make of this?

 

I am not a fan of this comment from Kim if this is what he she really said. She's implying that the show has never had any of those types of characters and that is plainly false. 

Full on hunters of color, off the top of my head,  Rufus FFS who introduced Bobby to hunting. Cesar, Gordon, hunter couple in s3 of which I think the wife (Tanya?) is still alive AFAIK.  I think a couple of the kids with Krissy in s7. Max could be a hunter if his story goes a different direction. I'm sure there are others I'm just forgetting about right now. 

Gay characters  who are also hunters:Charlie, Cesar & Jesse,  a potential with Max still out there if he wanted to hunt. 

Gay or bi characters:  Demian & Barnes, Chuck, Charlie, Gilda, Lily from s2, Alan from Ghostfacers, Dorothy possibly, Crowley, all angels could be considered gender fluid. The bartender and the other dude from s8. Jenna from s11. I'm sure I'm missing a few. 

Hmmm. I hope I find out that Kim was just misquoted or was saying something else here.

Edited October 6, 2017 by catrox14

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Do they?  I don't remember from last season.  All I recall is the bluish-grey smoke from the smiting in the clip - so I just attributed it to the monotone-ish color of the AU.  But you could be right.  Maybe they were Michael's minions.

Yeah in 12.23, one of the demons was shown being killed by AU Bobby IIRC or at least who I think was AU Bobby, and it  fritzed out in the yellow /gold color like demons in the SPN verse

Edited October 6, 2017 by catrox14

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Are Jody and Donna going to be a couple or is Jody coming out as bi? What do you guys make of this?

 

I am not a fan of this comment from Kim if this is what he she really said. She's implying that the show has never had any of those types of characters and that is plainly false. 

Full on hunters of color, off the top of my head,  Rufus FFS who introduced Bobby to hunting. Cesar, Gordon, hunter couple in s3 of which I think the wife (Tanya?) is still alive AFAIK.  I think a couple of the kids with Krissy in s7. Max could be a hunter if his story goes a different direction. I'm sure there are others I'm just forgetting about right now. 

Gay characters  who are also hunters:Charlie, Cesar & Jesse,  a potential with Max still out there if he wanted to hunt. 

Gay or bi characters:  Demian & Barnes, Chuck, Charlie, Gilda, Lily from s2, Alan from Ghostfacers, Dorothy possibly, Crowley, all angels could be considered gender fluid. The bartender and the other dude from s8. Jenna from s11. I'm sure I'm missing a few. 

Hmmm. I hope I find out that Kim was just misquoted or was saying something else here.

She wasn't misquoted. The question (paraphrased) was if she or Briana could be in charge of the plot of an episode, what would their fantasy be. Not sure why she chose to ignore all the diversity that has been shown in the show, but she does tend to get carried away making a show of her answers. But as to the first thing, no, she wasn't implying Jody was bi or they were going to be a couple, she was saying that by Jody denying herself loving Bobby (to not risk getting hurt again), and then losing him anyway, it opened her up to be able to love Alex and Claire (as daughters or sisters or whatever the heck they are going to be).

PS.. looks like my guess was right - the Shaving People/Punting Things S13 trailer came out today, just like Friday of the con last year.

 

Edited October 6, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

. But as to the first thing, no, she wasn't implying Jody was bi or they were going to be a couple, she was saying that by Jody denying herself loving Bobby (to not risk getting hurt again), and then losing him anyway, it opened her up to be able to love Alex and Claire (as daughters or sisters or whatever the heck they are going to be).

Ahhh thank you for that. I wouldn't have guessed that was the implication since Bobby was a potential love interest and not a child figure so that threw me off. That's for clarifying.

I'm thinking that might be a shapeshifter peeling off Dean's face.

[gonzosgirrl]

Just now, catrox14 said:

Ahhh thank you for that. I wouldn't have guessed that was the implication since Bobby was a potential love interest and not a child figure so that threw me off. That's for clarifying.

Yeah, it was love in general - and the risk you take in allowing yourself to care for someone. The other answer was just strange though. Makes me think she doesn't actually watch the show. 

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The other answer was just strange though. Makes me think she doesn't actually watch the show. 

I don't get that other answer at all. It's almost  like it's playing WWWE against the mothership in a pretty unfair way. Like sure the representation on SPN hasn't been stellar or as much as it could have been but it's certainly not non-existent as she implied. Weird

[catrox14]

Yeah looking more at that clip of Dean smashing his head into the pirate sign, I don't think that's Dean. I think it's a shapeshifter or some other monster, maybe a ghoul who has captured Dean?

Like I can't fathom why Dean would smash his head against that sign even in his deepest rage that's basically self abuse and Dean's self abuse is through drinking. Not mashing his own face into something.

Edited October 6, 2017 by catrox14

[SueB]

As always, nice and moody video.  I'm 100% sure that dead/stabbed Jody is a foreshadowing dream Patience has.  It probably bonds her to Jody when Jody prevents the dream from being realized.

Face-pulling apart Dean... welp... gross.

I think we are seeing scenes from the first 5 episodes at most because I didn't see anything "western".

I wonder if someone is a werewolf.. just felt that way.  No data to back it up.

Again, I don't think Mary is at real risk from Lucifer because she's bait for the boys to open the rift.

 

Can't wait for the season to start!

[SueB]

From K-site

Quote

LORETTA DEVINE RETURNS AS MISSOURI MOSLEY – When her friend is murdered by a wraith (guest star Jon Cor) with a taste for psychics, Missouri (guest star Loretta Devine) enlists the help of Dean (Jensen Ackles) and Jody (guest star Kim Rhodes) to protect her granddaughter, Patience (guest star Clark Backo), who has no idea she shares her grandmother’s trait and could be next on the wraith’s hit list. Meanwhile, Sam (Jared Padalecki) continues to work with Jack (Alexander Calvert) on learning how to control his powers. Robert Singer directed the episode written by Robert Berens (#1303). Original airdate 10/26/2017.

[Casseiopeia]

10 minutes ago, SueB said:

From K-site

I'm guessing Berens is going to write all the episodes concerning the potential spinoff.  

[catrox14]

12 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

I'm guessing Berens is going to write all the episodes concerning the potential spinoff.  

That's my impression and I suspect he'll end up the EP for it should it go to series

[Res]

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

That's my impression and I suspect he'll end up the EP for it should it go to series

Too bad it's not Dabb

[SueB]

Watched it at .25 speed so I could pick up all the little details:
- Baby: any episode
- Bird mask kid in dusty baby room w/ cobwebs on crib: MOTW
- Sam in cell in EP1
- Dean nearly getting run down (at night): MOTW?
- Spooky cemetery at night: MOT
- Hand reaching out of ground to pull down dude, dude in white cowboy hat gets pulled into ground (in cemetery): MOTW
- Dean looking aghast into a hole in cemetery (where dude in white hat went?): MOTW
- Little boy with snarly attitude leaping off bench seat (in car?): MOTW
- Typical blood splatter on inside of car: MOTW
- 2 snippets of Lucifer in dark (like S12 flashback?)
- Jack roar: EP1
- Lucifer in a gibbet (hanging cage), shirtless, in AU, w/ Michael walking around him, in a poorly constructed wood building where you can see between every slat, Enochian writing on walls
- Closeup of Lucifer's face in gibbet
- Dean pulls his face off
- Asmodeus entrance to Crowley's lair
- Patience looking like she's having a waking vision
- Jodie getting stabbed by wraith in (likely) vision space
- Likely Michael coming out of a depression in the ground, wings spread, in AU
- Dean throws Angel Blade and it stabs an Angel, whose attacking Donatello, in the neck
- Angel w/ a mean right hook into Dean's jaw
- Angel slams Dean onto bed (?), Sam stabs Angel through the back with Angel blade
-  Sam ignites an Angel-be-gone sigil
- 5 people (likely Angels) in military cammo, no horns, get dusted by Lucifer (using in same SFx when Amara dusted Angels in 11.09)
- Quick flash of Sam and Dean (with flashlight and dufflebag) looking shocked
- Sam and Dean devastated in front of Cas' funeral pyre
- Dean's head is coming back as he smashes his fist into "Buccaneers" sign (note, I think he had his head on the sign and smashed with his fist, versus smashed with his head)
- Dean laying unconscious, pops up like he just woke up shocked or from not breathing or something 
- Bright light behind Jack in sweater, Jack in sweater in front of a door
- Dean's hand follows through on punching Buccaneer sign
- Jack behind a log as a hole (to what looks like the cage) opens in the ground in our univers
- Dean swipes the Buccaneer sign off the door in anger
- Jack face w/ glowy eyes

I think ghouls might be a good guess because of cemetery, or maybe it's a ghoulshifter (another hybrid!)

I think Dean IS talking to Jack, just feels that way.

Not much Sam. Dean takes a LOT of beatings. 

[Lemuria]

Is that supposed to be Jack saying "When I get scared, things happen?"  'Cause it sounds more like Cas to me.  OTOH, that's not really true.

Is there a third hand?

[SueB]

3 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

Is that supposed to be Jack saying "When I get scared, things happen?"  'Cause it sounds more like Cas to me.  OTOH, that's not really true.

Is there a third hand?

It DID sound like Cas but I thought maybe it was the agitated kid with dark hair.  

[catrox14]

26 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

Is that supposed to be Jack saying "When I get scared, things happen?"  'Cause it sounds more like Cas to me.  OTOH, that's not really true.

Is there a third hand?

It's Spawn but he sounds just like Cas and IMO that's completely intentional.

[Mick Lady]

On ‎10‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 7:32 PM, DittyDotDot said:

Yeah, I was a bit baffled by Mary's calmness, but those pictures may be after it's obvious Luci doesn't have the juice he did in the other universe. 

Although, perhaps it's not so much that Lucifer doesn't have the juice as much as Micheal just has so much more...maybe it has something to do with winning the war over there and having all the souls instead of sharing them with Hell? Oh, Lucifer's power should come from Hell and will him being locked away from his Hell might have something to do with it too.

Well, being locked in a cage for a few years after losing the one big battle you've spent most of your life preparing for could cause someone to reevaluate and make some changes...just sayin'.

Wish I could "like" this more than once! Bolded part has really got us thinking. Thanks TripleD! Now Mick and I have something to discuss all night!

[SueB]

From TorCon:
Advice to character for season 13?
Jensen: don’t jump to conclusions 
Jared: don’t get too attached #SPNTOR #torcon

 

Interpretation: Jack is good, Jack dies.

[catrox14]

Spawn is a series regular. That means like 10 episodes. Seems unlikely that Jared would know he's gone unless they kill him off at the mid season.

[SueB]

6 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Spawn is a series regular. That means like 10 episodes. Seems unlikely that Jared would know he's gone unless they kill him off at the mid season.

My guess is not that they kill him off but they put him in AU land.  Where he makes it a paradise.  

As for regular status... That would be close to 10 episodes, they may go back to the AU land (since I'm pretty sure Michael from the AU crosses over and starts a ruckus in the back half of the season).  But by S13's end, they'll leave the AU mostly behind.  

Regular status does several things, but in this case, guaranteeing actor availability and the actor wanting the 'status' may have contributed.  I think we will see a LOT of Jack.  Which honestly, I'm kinda cool with.  

For me it goes back to Sam & Dean's legacy.  And it's not JUST saving the planet/universe a couple (okay S5, S6/S7 end/start, S8, S9, S11).. okay 5 times.  It's their individual impact on people.  The personal "saves".  Like taking Cas from an obedient minion of heaven to champion of Team Free Will.  Turning Crowley into 'helpful'.  Even Rowena stopped the world domination game and stuck with small ball.  Mick turned decent before Ketch killed him. But many of their MOTW saves ALSO result in changed lives.  So, if Sam and Dean (and then Cas as well) successfully nurture Jack into a force for good ... despite the odds against him... that's powerful stuff.  

[catrox14]

‘Supernatural’ Boss Says Season 13 Sees the Winchesters the ‘Most Alone’ They’ve Been

By Danielle Turchiano

@danielletbd

Excerpt

Quote

The son of Lucifer is a “blank slate” when season 13 starts, which allows the show to play with the question of whether nature or nurture means the most to who a person becomes.

 

“As much as last season was about Sam and Dean being kids, this season is about them as parents,” Dabb says, adding that Jack begins to see the Winchesters as “role models.”

Related ContentCW Plots ‘Supernatural’ Spinoff

On the flip side, Dean and Sam begin to see themselves reflected in Jack at times. “Sam was cursed with powers for a big chunk of the show, and Dean sees this kid who is eager to please his dad and wonders if he’s turning into his father,” Dabb says. “And we say with kids all of the time, you hope they get your best qualities, but sometimes they get your worst qualities. Sam and Dean have been through dark times, and that’s something Jack will be exposed to.”

 

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/supernatural-season-13-jensen-ackles-jared-padalecki-spoilers-1202555868/

Quote

And to that end, Dabb says that although the apocalypse world is not intended to be a new five-year arc, he also can’t say for sure that it will all be resolved in season 13. “What’s bigger than God? The answer is nothing. So after we did that, it was really about new directions that we could take our characters that will give them new things to react to? This opens up a lot of storytelling ideas in that way,” Dabb says.

[SueB]

From same article: "We won’t spend a lot of time with Mary and Lucifer in the apocalypse world, as we’re still most focused, and our audience cares most about, following Sam and Dean,” Dabb admits.

seems Dabb has been reading the boards.

 

Well, I'm liking what he's saying.   I find it interesting that:

- Jack has a connection to Cas and his feeling of loss is keen

- 'Death' is put up at the level of God & Amara (and mentioned!)

- Dabb is not giving any 'winding down' hints

[Jonesy]

19 minutes ago, SueB said:

From same article: "We won’t spend a lot of time with Mary and Lucifer in the apocalypse world, as we’re still most focused, and our audience cares most about, following Sam and Dean,” Dabb admits.

seems Dabb has been reading the boards.

 

Well, I'm liking what he's saying.   I find it interesting that:

- Jack has a connection to Cas and his feeling of loss is keen

- 'Death' is put up at the level of God & Amara (and mentioned!)

- Dabb is not giving any 'winding down' hints

Yes I'm liking the article too--Dabb saying Dean and Sam are the focus and most important...true that!  That Jack has strong connection and missing Cas--almost as much as Dean...like that they will take time to feel the Cas loss and when he returns have a big reaction.  And they show Jack being connected to both Lucifer and Cas...the good and bad dad.  And yes nice Dabb isn't hinting the show is winding down is good--though I still fear 14 will be it.  Also interesting that AU Micheal has no interest in Dean...at first!  Hmmm.  Nice also that the AU world without a Dean and Sam will show how important they are in our world.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Jakes

[Jonesy]

Wow first CW ratings--SuperGirl only a .5 and 1.86 million and Valor .3 and 1.21 million.  Spoiler Supernatural is TOTALLY safe ratings-wise for season 13--season 14 a lock. 

[Diane]

 

[Casseiopeia]

2 minutes ago, Diane said:

 

I think this is the midseason finale setting up the midseason premiere.  The two part episode that launches Wayward Sisters.  Not really the two parter I was waiting for.

[gonzosgirrl]

7 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

I think this is the midseason finale setting up the midseason premiere.  The two part episode that launches Wayward Sisters.  Not really the two parter I was waiting for.

You and me both. I know the fans in love with this idea are quite, umm, vocal, but I honestly believe they are over-estimating the clamor for this series.

[SueB]

32 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

You and me both. I know the fans in love with this idea are quite, umm, vocal, but I honestly believe they are over-estimating the clamor for this series.

I think THR had it right -- it's either Wayward Sisters or no spinoff.  Personally I'm interested.  I'm invested in both Jodi and Donna. I also think That Claire will be less teenage angst as the 'leader' of the younger trio. Although there are a variety of opinions about Claire, that's the criticism I personally read most often.  So, we'll see what happens.  Honestly, from what I can tell the producers are giving this the best shot they can. And that makes me happy.  But there are soooo many variables on whether or not it's a success.  So, I'm here for the ride. 

[catrox14]

I'm gonna be unhappy if Phil Sgriccia ends up moving over to WW full time as an EP and primary director, should it get picked up to series. I think he's the best director for SPN currently. I love his directing style. He lets scenes breathe. I sure hope he's only doing the "pilot" for WW and that's it.

I dunno maybe the shows will end up sharing directors.

[companionenvy]

I think Wayward Sisters has potential, and is the right choice for a spin-off, in terms of involving characters integrally connected to the main show, but in a position that should make it natural for them to function independently of it.

The things they're going to have to avoid: making it a generic teenage angst and romance fest (or, to quote Angel, "a turgid supernatural soap opera"), and keeping the right sense of scale. For this show to work, IMO, it has to steer clear of the cosmic mythologies and apocalyptic stakes that have defined the parent show. That isn't to say WS can't ever save the world, but I don't want Claire to suddenly be some sort of Chosen One or for Jodi to become an major player in a turf-war in hell. We already get that kind of thing in SPN (and not always for the better even there). 

[gonzosgirrl]

15 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

I think Wayward Sisters has potential, and is the right choice for a spin-off, in terms of involving characters integrally connected to the main show, but in a position that should make it natural for them to function independently of it.

The things they're going to have to avoid: making it a generic teenage angst and romance fest (or, to quote Angel, "a turgid supernatural soap opera"), and keeping the right sense of scale. For this show to work, IMO, it has to steer clear of the cosmic mythologies and apocalyptic stakes that have defined the parent show. That isn't to say WS can't ever save the world, but I don't want Claire to suddenly be some sort of Chosen One or for Jodi to become an major player in a turf-war in hell. We already get that kind of thing in SPN (and not always for the better even there). 

I agree that having characters that a lot of people are already invested in is the key - if there is such a thing - to any chance of success. I'll give it a chance as long as there is respect shown to the mother-ship, but honestly, I'm not getting that vibe at all. In fact, a couple of tweets and comments made at cons have me feeling quite the opposite We'll see what tone is set by 13x10 and 13x11, but I don't have any much faith in these writers to not trying making ________ (pick a character) 'badass' at the expense of Dean or Sam. First time that happens, I'm out.

[Wayward Son]

Personally, I don’t think WS’ will succeed nor do I think any other spin off premise would either. IMO the SN fandom are far too attached to J2 for that to happen. I’ve seen far too many comments along the lines of “No J2 no me, or no Jared no me, or no Jensen no me” to think a show would survive on the SN fandom following across. Far too many seem to solely watch for J2 or a particular J. 

 

IMO the shows only chance, and it’d be a very remote chance even then, of surviving is to separate itself from the mothership as much as possible. If the promo downplays the connection to a 13 season show and just focuses on WS own strengths such as a female centric cast that may appeal to some non SN viewers. It needs to bring in some non SN viewers, to replace the J(2) centric fans that refuse to cross over, if it has any hope of surviving.

 

ETA: I’m not trying to criticise anyone for the reasons they watch the show. I’m just saying that IMO it will be an obstacle to any spin off succeeding. 

Edited October 10, 2017 by Wayward Son