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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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catrox14

catrox14

YAAAAASSSS!, I didn't know Cain was coming back. I am ridiculously excited!

But what was the need to do so? Cain had it and wasn't doing anything with it. It was completely under control and not a threat to anyone.

There was no guarantee Cain would control it forever. So if angels knew they could do something to stop a demon from slaughtering humans I would hope they would, but then angels are dicks so maybe they just didn't care.

SueB

SueB

  • Author
(edited)

 

Here's the official description of episode 10.08.

    TUESDAY, DECEMBER 2 SUPERNATURAL “Hibbing 911” — (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) JODY MILLS RETURNS — Jody Mills (guest star Kim Rhodes) reluctantly attends a mandatory sheriff’s retreat and is partnered with an overeager sheriff named Donna (guest star Briana Buckmaster) who wants to bond. Just as Jody thinks things can’t get any worse, a body with just strings of meat and skin hanging off the bones is discovered.  While the local sheriffs blame an animal attack, Jody knows better and calls Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles).  Tim Andrew directed this episode with teleplay by Jenny Klein and story by Jenny Klein & Phil Sgriccia (#1008).

Thanks to Winchester Family Business website.

 

I love Sherrif Donna and Jodi.  I'm really looking forward to this one.

Edited by SueB
SueB

SueB

  • Author

I read that.  The author said:

 

There are a number of hints that Demon Dean will be brought back some time during the Supernatural season 10 winter hiatus.
Read more at http://guardianlv.com/2014/11/supernatural-season-10-winter-hiatus-bringing-back-demon-dean/#hXUfDWym8BrtU3lg.99

But didn't follow up with any rationale why she thinks that. 

 

 

Dean finally makes a decision about the troublesome Mark of Cain plaguing him.

Is the TV Line blurb. But it doesn't say he decides to be a demon.  Carver has said MoC drives the storyline this Season.  But it could be that Dean gets more active in trying to eliminate the Mark. Not that he embraces demonhood.  Am I missing something?

DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

Dean finally makes a decision about the troublesome Mark of Cain plaguing him.

 

Is the TV Line blurb. But it doesn't say he decides to be a demon.  Carver has said MoC drives the storyline this Season.  But it could be that Dean gets more active in trying to eliminate the Mark. Not that he embraces demonhood.  Am I missing something?

 

 

That's what I was thinking SueB, well sort of anyway. Last season he wanted to embrace the power the MoC gave him--thinking he could do good with it--I think this season will be about him coming to some sort of control of the MoC rather than it controlling him. I'm not sure if they will fully get rid of it, but I do think they will get it to the point--like Cain seemed to be--where Dean has some control over it.

catrox14

catrox14

I was hopefully (?) speculating that Dean was controlling his demon side.  I think her comments about him being a Knight of Hell, which was a casual mention in Fan Fiction, could allow him to control how much of his demonity is let through the surface.  Cain had his demon side under control so it seems to me that Dean might be honing that skill.

 

I thought when his face showed and his eyes were cleared of black in Soul Survivor that there was a hint in Jensen's performance that maybe he was pulling a ruse. And throughout the s10 I think he's Dean but different and my speculation is that he has been pretending to be cured.  Which also ties back to Crowley challenging him whether he is a demon or human.

DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)

There's been quite a bit of discussion on whether Sam and Dean's relationship is on better footing this season. I just got around to watching the Burbank Con videos and both Jensen says we'll see them more on the same page this season than it has been for years. It's at the end of this video clip of the J2 afternoon panel:

 

 

ETA: BTW, Jared and Jensen were on fire and really funny and goofy throughout their entire panel. I don't know if it's because their characters are on better terms so they're enjoying the work again more or if it's just coincidence but this year the con videos have had me smiling and laughing again like I did during early seasons. Whatever they're doing, they should keep it up!

Edited by DittyDotDot
catrox14

catrox14

I'm starting to think the boys are trolling us. Sure the boys are more on the same page but that is far from being the team we saw in early seasons. And honestly, I don't see how they could be.

That was the last con for the year. I don't think the next one is until like March or later. So whatever happens between the brothers after the fall finale is all up for debate and they don't have the con goers to give them grief until most of the season is over.

I think Jensen is happier because he's out of L A. I didn't realize that he had a stalker a couple of years ago who was claiming to be his wife and was committing credit card fraud using his name and status. Awful.

SueB

SueB

  • Author
(edited)

Sneak peek VIDEO for tomorrow's "Girls, Girls, Girls"

 

http://www.screenfad.com/supernatural/supernatural-sneak-peek-s10e07-girls-girls-girls-28633#sthash.n3NrbmbY.dpbs

 

And yes, Dean really is doing the dating app thing for real. Sam's worried she's some trucker from Canada (she's not) BUT Admiral Ackbar is screaming.

btJqFPg.jpg

Edited by SueB
catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

JFC. Of all the idiotic things that are totally OOC and make Dean look dumb this one takes the cake. Dude has NO reason to put himself out there likethat. This really does piss me off. /head desk head desk head desk.

Even worse it's more smart Sam /dumb Dean because Sam has to explain to a guy that watches porn on the pc why this app would be problematic. GRRRRR

Edited by catrox14
SueB

SueB

  • Author

Just watched again. 'We detoured 8 hours so you could get laid?' 'Yeah, so don't wait up' I missed that line from Sam (about the 8 hr detour). I know these guys drive a lot but 8 hrs is a long drive. Sounds like Dean doesn't do this all the time.

And yes, Dean could get many women. But maybe he was, IDK, looking for something a little different. Random hookups have to get boring I would think. My only issue is the security one. Maybe he's a little sure of himself in terms of abity to handle trouble?

Pete Martell

Pete Martell

It's just so dumb. So the guy that can just smile at a woman and she'll practically drops trou right there decides a dating app is the way to go? An app that can track his whereabouts if it wanted to? There better be a damn good reason for this stupidity because no.... Just no.

 

Dean's been written as very awkward in flirtations with women (when he's trying to flirt, I mean) for a while now. I don't have a problem with him wanting to just go via a dating site where he won't have to deal with all the usual crap and just get down to business. I could see him using the app as an escape from who he is, what he's afraid he's becoming.

 

The only real question I have is whether the show is doing this intentionally or if it's just some attempt to recreate the brother dynamic of the first season, even though it doesn't really suit Dean and Sam a decade later. I hope they are trying to say it doesn't suit, that it's deliberate, and that Dean wouldn't be doing this if he was truly in a good place.

 

But after fiascos like Dean/Suzy last season, I don't have any idea what the writing may be trying to say.

catrox14

catrox14

Dean's been written as very awkward in flirtations with women (when he's trying to flirt, I mean) for a while now. I don't have a problem with him wanting to just go via a dating site where he won't have to deal with all the usual crap and just get down to business. I could see him using the app as an escape from who he is, what he's afraid he's becoming.

 

The only real question I have is whether the show is doing this intentionally or if it's just some attempt to recreate the brother dynamic of the first season, even though it doesn't really suit Dean and Sam a decade later. I hope they are trying to say it doesn't suit, that it's deliberate, and that Dean wouldn't be doing this if he was truly in a good place.

 

But after fiascos like Dean/Suzy last season, I don't have any idea what the writing may be trying to say.

I disagree that Dean he been written as awkward in his flirtations. The difference IMO are that women are hitting on him more than he's hitting on them. True enough that he hasn't had as many flirtations as the past because he was depressed for the entire s9 was dealing with the MoC but in s8 he came back from Purgatory all messed up but the flirting was still there. I just think he's less inclined to get involved but he's not awkward. He was totally into the museum lady in s9 after he realized what she was doing. And I thought he had a nice connection with psychic from the mentalists in s7.

Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

This dating app thing -- I can't believe they're going there.  Sam and Dean Winchester have been on the FBI's Most Wanted list twice.  Why on Chuck's green earth would either of them use their real names?

 

This is as dumb as Sam talking about going back to college a couple of seasons ago.  Good news is, they dropped that after one episode.  With any luck, this will be another stupid moment that I can pretend never happened because it has no real bearing on the story.

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7kstar

7kstar

Yeah, the issue I have is Dean using his real name.  I also expect this to go very bad, because lately any time he has dated it has ended in a bad way.  I just hope I don't hate the whole thing!

 

Sam is being the usual brother though, I know more than you which he did a lot in the early years.  So it may be what the writers think we want from the early years but do they really get what we really want?????  That's the million dollar question.

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Pete Martell

Pete Martell

I don't really care if Dean uses his own name, as he and Sam sort of live in a bubble at this point - they have their own place that no one really has any ties to, they both aren't entirely human, they have friends who can likely erase any information out of existence if necessary...hell, Dean is technically dead several times over. It's stupid but they don't live in any type of reality anyway (if they ever did). I just hope there's some purpose for it beyond a joke or it leading to what's going on with Crowley.


I disagree that Dean he been written as awkward in his flirtations. The difference IMO are that women are hitting on him more than he's hitting on them. True enough that he hasn't had as many flirtations as the past because he was depressed for the entire s9 was dealing with the MoC but in s8 he came back from Purgatory all messed up but the flirting was still there. I just think he's less inclined to get involved but he's not awkward. He was totally into the museum lady in s9 after he realized what she was doing. And I thought he had a nice connection with psychic from the mentalists in s7.

 

When Dean isn't trying, he can be smooth and likeable (like his flirtation with Benny's granddaughter). It's just when he's trying to get back into the game that it all tends to become awkward. That's why I could see him just deciding to forego the rituals entirely and using the dating app. It's also something he probably never really paid attention to before, given he's not as interested in technology, so it was probably new to him. It's a way to distract himself from the MoC too.

 

Again my problem is more that it's probably just being done for a gag and to setup the plot and I don't know if we'll get any further explanation for it or his headspace. And the character deserves more than that.

Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)

I think it`s supposed to be a joke at the character`s expense. I`m sure the woman will turn out to be fishy and Sam will laugh and mock because dumb!Dean - who apparently can`t get laid - used a dating app and was (falsely) full of himself about his own attractiveness.

 

And the idea came from the throwaway question at Comic Con. I just find the entire concept ridiculous. They`ve never implied that Sam couldn`t get laid so the implication that Dean needs an app for it is silly. Quite frankly, I know a number of people for whom Dean is way hotter. If I had a choice between them, I would be the elbow and Sam out of the way. The only guy I can recall on the show who can even compete (not win but compete) for me is the actor who was playing young John, Matt Cohen.

 

So, I will brace myself for some annoying gag time and Sam hahahaha-ing about it. Maybe the fast-forward button will be a good idea again. 

Edited by Aeryn13
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SueB

SueB

  • Author

 

I`m sure the woman will turn out to be fishy

From the promo, we know that is 100% correct.

 

And the idea came from the throwaway question at Comic Con.

The episode idea didn't come from Comic Con.  In the writer process they are well past concept and outline before they are actually writing the episode (which is were Berens was).  The only thing that came out of Comic Con was Dean's "about" description on the app.  It was kinda perfect for the episode so Bobo used it. 

 

 

Sam will laugh and mock because dumb!Dean - who apparently can`t get laid - used a dating app and was (falsely) full of himself about his own attractiveness.

First, as his brother, this is PERFECT mocking material.  I hold nothing against Sam for mocking Dean on this -- what little brother wouldn't?  It reminded me of when they were acting like 12 year olds in Tall Tale and started to wrestle on the bed for the money clip.  Alas, they were in public. 

 

But even though Dean didn't want Sam to tease him about it, he doesn't seem desperate to me. Dean said "don't knock it till you've tried it."  Maybe he used it while a demon and found it an easy way to get fast hookups without any song and dance? Regardless, it appears he's happy with the outcome so maybe this is not his first use.  Someone on tumblr blew up the screen messages and Shaylene (sp?) "cuts right to the chase" about it essentially being nothing but a hookup and Dean's response is "you're my kind of gal".  Maybe he realized the dating app allows him to sort thru the bullshit and find a girl who is looking for exactly what he wants.  Dean's "love life" is not about finding a relationship.  He's resigned himself to hookups and that's that.  I think judging Dean's choice to use the app by regular people standards doesn't fit. 

And Dean knows he's good looking.  He was just groped by a cougar in the last episode (and they are just coming back from Connecticut).  He may have low self-esteem but he's never shown any doubt regarding his ability to get a woman into bed.  Which is what leads me to believe, this is a convenience for him.

 

OTOH, he IS being "dumb Dean", by thinking there's nothing fishy about an extremely hot woman who sext's like a Penthouse letter.  That's got honey trap (some variation of) written all over it. Then again, the dude appeared to have done nothing but "booze & babes" during his 6 weeks of 'howling at the moon'.  Including triplets (I don't understand those logistics BTW). Maybe he's just that sure of himself that if there's someone like whom Shaylene is stating she is, well he's just EXACTLY the kinda guy she'd go for.  So... perhaps it's overconfidence (based on recent experience) that is preventing him from seeing what is obvious to most. He's not exactly "normal" when it comes to the "attractiveness" scale.  He's frankly all manner of hot.  If all he ever beds are hot chicks, then he may think she's no different than his usual draw.  

 

Bottom line: Dean is NOT normal.  He only wants hookups and he appears to have bed a large number of hot women.  These two factors are more likely to combine to make this "dumb!Dean" moment than Dean is lonely, desperate, and stupid IMO.

SueB

SueB

  • Author

 

Actually Dean is pretty normal in that he just wants a hookup and no strings attached and beds beautiful women.

I think it's normal he wants that. I think his ability to actually pull it off as often as he apparently does is fairly unusual.

 

Photos up for Hibbing 911:

http://Actually Dean is pretty normal in that he just wants a hookup and no strings attached and beds beautiful women.

 

I hope Sheriff Donna is a great as she was last time.  She was goofy but there was also some nice character moments for her.

Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)

 

These two factors are more likely to combine to make this "dumb!Dean" moment than Dean is lonely, desperate, and stupid IMO.

 

All things that very much entice me to watch. Not. I don`t care to watch characters I like humiliated like this. And less so to have characters I don`t like mock them for it.

 

 

And Dean knows he's good looking.

 

And yet in this clip he delivers the standard clichéd line that the nerdy, "un-hot" guy gives either to their hot friends or equal nerdy friends whenever they warn them that something is too good to be true and most likely a honey trap.

 

The "is is so unrealistic a woman could find me attractive" line. Dean is not the kind of guy who asks questions like that. The characters on Big Bang Theory are. This implies that poor unattractive Dean gets defensive about his prospects with woman while of Sam (of course he is a stud for whom the show never implicated that) councels.

 

Bullshit. When they looked at the picture of Shaylene and concluded she is hot, well, so is Dean. This is a "tens go for tens" situation. It`s not a three wondering why a ten would go out with them. Of course, it can and will be a trap but giving Dean Winchester of all people the lines of the "can`t get laid" guy is obnoxious and ridiculous.

 

 

I think it's normal he wants that. I think his ability to actually pull it off as often as he apparently does is fairly unusual.

 

I don`t see it as unusual. He is straightforward hot enough to pull it off. House once riffed on that with the Chase character by betting him that even if he was an ass on a speed dating marathon, he would still wind up with way more phone numbers than the others. Which he did. He ridiculed every woman for their minute or two and yet 95 % gave him the phone number just because he was so hot.

 

Which, actually, I think is pretty accurate for each gender. If it`s just about a hook-up, a smoking hot person can get away with nearly literal murder and they will still score. After all, you can just pretend or tune them out or something and bask in the glory.

 

So if someone could put their real life picture up on a dating app, get accosted by a beautiful woman and have it be exactly what it seems to be? Dean would be it. CW characters in general would be it. 

Edited by Aeryn13
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Pete Martell

Pete Martell

(edited)

I think it`s supposed to be a joke at the character`s expense. I`m sure the woman will turn out to be fishy and Sam will laugh and mock because dumb!Dean - who apparently can`t get laid - used a dating app and was (falsely) full of himself about his own attractiveness.

 

I don't really think the show is saying he's "falsely full of himself" about his looks. Dean is very attractive, and there's no real denying that. I think they're trying to recreate some of the facade of the first few seasons, where Dean was on the prowl and Sam is making fun of him. 

 

Dean can get laid. We saw that well enough when he was a demon. It's more the life he lives and the way he feels about himself that get in the way. I imagine that's one of the reasons he's doing this in the first place. He probably thinks if the demon could enjoy himself sexually (which I don't really think the "real" Dean has been able to do in a long time, aside from sour hook-ups like the one with Suzy the porn star last season), why can't he? And the quickest way to do that in his mind is the app.

The "is is so unrealistic a woman could find me attractive" line. Dean is not the kind of guy who asks questions like that. The characters on Big Bang Theory are. This implies that poor unattractive Dean gets defensive about his prospects with woman while of Sam (of course he is a stud for whom the show never implicated that) councels.

 

Dean has always been defensive about his prospects. That's why he put on the macho facade for years (and still does at times) and why he tended to feel stung the times that he was rejected. Deep down he's always felt he was crap, because that's what his father told him, and because the first time he was truly honest with a woman (Cassie), she ordered him out of her life. 

 

Dean's going to feel even more defensive now, because he spent months as a demon and is worried he might go the same way again. He knows he isn't human. He knows he may never be again.

Edited by Pete Martell
AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

But having a curse on doesn't make you supernatural.   Sam was never considered not human when he had the psychic stuff.  I never once thought Dean was no longer human until he became a demon. 

 

Some hunters - especially Gordon - didn't really consider Sam or the other psychic kids as strictly human though, and therefore fair game in their eyes. It came up again in season 5 when hunters were also hunting Sam - and two eventually did track him down and kill him with Dean as collateral damage, but it was only Dean that they talked about as not being the right thing to do. They didn't consider killing Sam as wrong at all, meaning most likely, they didn't consider him entirely human.

 

Even though Dean is no longer a demon, I expect that if some hunters knew about his mark, they, too, would consider Dean fair game.

catrox14

catrox14

I did. The moment he took on the Mark of Cain he developed even more exceptional hunting skills. He either didn't sleep or slept minimally. He drank quarts of whiskey and seemed sober. And then he stopped eating and started yakking. I think the Mark would have killed him if Metatron didn't.

 

Dean was still human which is why he was going to die because he couldn't handle the power of the Mark as a human.

AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

Dean was still human which is why he was going to die because he couldn't handle the power of the Mark as a human.

 

Interesting point. But I'm not always sure what human means in this show sometimes. For example, was soulless Sam human? Veritas seemed to think he wasn't. Crowley said that Dean couldn't handle the mark because he wasn't a demon - as Cain was a demon - but does that mean that it was killing him because he was human or because he wasn't a demon? I'm not sure. Maybe Dean is human, but humans need to sleep - or if the weirdness of "The Born-Again Identity" is to be taken as canon, then a human with a somewhat there soul needs to sleep. So if it's to be assumed that soulless Sam was not human as Veritas claimed, and he didn't need to sleep, it may follow that mark of Cain Dean was slowly also becoming something not quite human, because he too was starting to not sleep. And he potentially may be again not sleeping all that much.

 

So bottom line: I'm not sure, but if we go by the at least consistent not sleeping = something other than human*, then it's looking more and more to me that Dean is - at least partly - something other than human.

 

* which the list includes that we know of so far - soulless people, angels (who are also soulless), and demons (who have a twisted, damaged soul). Weirdly some monsters - who are also not human (either at all or anymore) - sometimes do sleep. Vampires, for example, we at least know sleep.

catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Interesting point. But I'm not always sure what human means in this show sometimes. For example, was soulless Sam human? Veritas seemed to think he wasn't. Crowley said that Dean couldn't handle the mark because he wasn't a demon - as Cain was a demon - but does that mean that it was killing him because he was human or because he wasn't a demon? I'm not sure. Maybe Dean is human, but humans need to sleep - or if the weirdness of "The Born-Again Identity" is to be taken as canon, then a human with a somewhat there soul needs to sleep. So if it's to be assumed that soulless Sam was not human as Veritas claimed, and he didn't need to sleep, it may follow that mark of Cain Dean was slowly also becoming something not quite human, because he too was starting to not sleep. And he potentially may be again not sleeping all that much.

So bottom line: I'm not sure, but if we go by the at least consistent not sleeping = something other than human*, then it's looking more and more to me that Dean is - at least partly - something other than human.

* which the list includes that we know of so far - soulless people, angels (who are also soulless), and demons (who have a twisted, damaged soul). Weirdly some monsters - who are also not human (either at all or anymore) - sometimes do sleep. Vampires, for example, we at least know sleep.

This raises a question.

If the soul = humanity as is strongly implied in the show i. e. Soulless Sam and the episode wherein Abbadon was harvesting souls which made the soulless people do evil things then I say demons are still human - adjacent because they have their souls even if twisted and messed up and have some supernatural powers like flinging a person across the room, pinning them to walls, the ability to smoke out of meatsuits and in Cains case, the ability to stop Crowley speaking and open and close doors with a snap of the fingers and teleport. If Dean had those we never saw it in action which was really lame BTW.

We saw him Jedi the First Blade and when he killed Abbadon she was lifted off the ground but that may have been more a function of the relationship with the blade than Dean having supernatural capabilities. He was stronger, faster, a better fighter, and could heal himself but I'm left questioning just how supernatural he is/was since we never saw those other things.

I don't think demons are considered to be monsters which is why we didn't see demons in Purgatory at least not that I remember. I think Veritas considered Sam not human because of he could lie to her but I don't think she knew he was soulless.

Addicts will choose their addiction over eating and sleeping so I think Dean was in that mode but still human with the MoC. It was his humanity that was killing him because he needed to kill but his human body could not with stand the power of the Mark.

So he question is how could a demon be cured if they have no humanity/soul at all? Wouldn't the human blood be latching on to the humanity buried in the demon?

Going forward will we see more about Dean supposedly being a Knight of Hell?

Edited by catrox14
DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

If the soul = humanity as is strongly implied in the show i. e. Soulless Sam and the episode wherein Abbadon was harvesting souls which made the soulless people do evil things then I say demons are still human - adjacent because they have their souls even if twisted and messed up and have some supernatural powers like flinging a person across the room, pinning them to walls, the ability to smoke out of meatsuits and in Cains case, the ability to stop Crowley speaking and open and close doors with a snap of the fingers and teleport.

 

In my mind soul doesn't equal humanity. Demons are twisted souls, represented by smoke that inhabit human bodies. I guess human adjacent could be implied, but that's still not human, in my mind. Monsters have twisted and mutated souls also, so I think you could classify demons as a type of monster, but being Lucifer's creation probably gives them special status in that they don't have to go to Purgatory like Eve's creations do. Wow, this is too much thinking this early in the morning without more coffee in my system. 

 

 

Addicts will choose their addiction over eating and sleeping so I think Dean was in that mode but still human with the MoC. It was his humanity that was killing him because he needed to kill but his human body could not with stand the power of the Mark.

 

I'm not sure I'm following what you mean by Dean's humanity was killing him. My understanding was the Mark was changing him into a murder machine. I'm not sure that Dean would have died if he didn't kill, but I think the MoC would just continue to increase his need to kill until he was fully transformed into that unstoppable murder machine. I guess technically it was killing Dean the human, but I don't think Dean would've actually died if he didn't kill. Seriously, that made perfect sense in my head.

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ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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