Spoilers With Speculation

[catrox14]

Oh okay. That makes a lot more sense to me than Sam babysitting demon!Dean.

[catrox14]

Does it seem kind of weird to you guys that we are a month out of the premiere and there hasn't been a trailer for s10 yet? I've seen trailers for The Flash, Arrow, Reign, The Originals and all their new programming. 

[catrox14]

And just as I complained here are some promo pics

 

http://tvline.com/2014/09/03/supernatural-season-10-premiere-pics-demon-dean-karaoke/

 

 

LOL Dean is singing Imaginary Lover! That's funny. 

 

Dean sitting in a bar drinking? That's new

 

Why is Sam tied up?

Edited September 3, 2014 by catrox14

[SueB]

Thanks for the correction Aeryn.

 

"Imaginary Lover"  I. CAN'T. EVEN.

 

I'm already dying of vicarious embarrassment -- even tho neither Dean nor Jensen are embarrassed.  It's a thing.

[catrox14]

So the woman playing Ann Marie is Emily Fonda. No relations. The waitress in the picture I think.    Oddly, she's blond and blue eyed, not at all Dean's usual type except for Jaime. And apparently she had been in the French Mistake as a makeup person.

 

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4350371/

 

And....she is in 50 Shades of Grey....

Edited September 3, 2014 by catrox14

[catrox14]

Jensen Ackles ‏@JensenAckles 5m

Last day of episode 200! Me and @jarpad sittin where we belong. #Supernatural

 

 

 

 

Jensen Ackles ‏@JensenAckles 15m

Last day of episode 200! Me and @jarpad sittin where we belong. #Supernatural pic.twitter.com/MeY10CGku9
Embedded image permalink

Edited September 4, 2014 by catrox14

[SueB]

So... normal clothes, lack of scruff.

[catrox14]

I don't know if the clothes mean anything. demon!Dean is wearing normal clothes in those promo pics and he doesn't have that much scruff.  Which is exceedingly sad

[kimrey]

I think it's pretty obvious he's not a demon anymore by episode 4.  Something definitely goes down in 3 that changes things.  I'm not saying he's completely healed, but from everything I've seen it's pretty clear to me that he's at least not evil anymore by 4.

 

Which I don't mind.  I'm excited for Demon!Dean, but I'm also excited for the boys to be back together and deal with everything each of them did in their time apart.  I also hope that there's still something inside Dean that they need to be weary about, like even if the demon part of Dean is gone, he still has the mark and that could make him go off.  

 

I'm really just so excited for this season!  It's not fair that it seems that every other CW show has gotten a new promo at this point and we're still waiting.  I hope we get some new spoilers at the con this weekend.

[7kstar]

I don't know if the clothes mean anything. demon!Dean is wearing normal clothes in those promo pics and he doesn't have that much scruff.  Which is exceedingly sad

In the clip when he is trying to kill Sam, he has regular eyes until they flash black.  Maybe my version is that Demon Dean isn't stupid, if he looks normal and acts a bit normal, the hunters will leave him alone and he can have fun hunting them.  Just an idea, and not sure one they will use.  But I can see how they can twist this so he looks normal.  Plus Soulless Sam looked normal at first too.

 

Of course, I do want them back together enjoying fighting together again...So torn...but I hope the story is satisfying.

 

Jensen did talk about how he had a meeting for the first time, in LA with Carver...so that may be that he influenced a storyline????  At least for now I'm enjoying that I'm looking forward to the beginning of a season.  It's been way too long for that.

[catrox14]

Hard to say what he talked to them about. But I know he said that he did not want Dean's arc scrapped too soon, like they did with Purgatory Dean and Benny.  I was noticing on the poster that Sam is in front in the hero pose. Haven't the boys generally been more evenly placed? Does that mean that Sam is going to be the hero for the season?

[DittyDotDot]

I think 7kstar was referring to Jensen's comments at VanCon recently. Jensen said he asked for a meeting in reference to the 200th episode...he said he read the script and for the first time he had a meeting--then he backtracked and said he'd had meetings with the head writer before, but this was the first time to discuss his concerns over an episode. I got the idea that the episode maybe walked too close to a line or possibly even crossed one that separates Dean and Jensen, like when they did The French Mistake.

 

He did call a meeting with the writers last season and it's rumored it was because he didn't want Dean's story dropped too soon, but I have yet to hear that from Jensen himself, fans reported he said it at a con last spring; I think it was during a meet and greet where cameras aren't allowed.

 

As far as the promo poster goes, those are images from last year's poster and I think they only placed Jared in the front to hide Jensen's hand in his pocket and not make it so obvious that they were reused images. Or that's what it looks like to the designer in me anyway; I doubt it means that Sam's the focus or the bigger hero.

Edited September 4, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[7kstar]

 

I think 7kstar was referring to Jensen's comments at VanCon recently. Jensen said he asked for a meeting in reference to the 200th episode...he said he read the script and for the first time he had a meeting--then he backtracked and said he'd had meetings with the head writer before, but this was the first time to discuss his concerns over an episode. I got the idea that the episode maybe walked too close to a line or possibly even crossed one that separates Dean and Jensen, like when they did The French Mistake.

It was a very recent con interview.  He backtracked but said that he made a point to visit them in LA and it wasn't really clear what he talked about other than he had some concerns.  He has always been professional. 

 

When I look at his body language and reactions the only time I think he may have really had a problem was with Gamble but he never really said anything other than some statements he has let slipped in the last year or so.  But I did notice that his excitement seemed off on some of the panels but how much of it was due to that or just being tired, don't know.  But he will always spin it that he supports the head writer.  I know he was asked at a Con about hating Season 6 and he replied just having a hard time with new direction and that he wasn't upset with her.  But he did sort of slam her later about the coat that he saved in recent cons...so make up your own opinion on that.  During 6 & 7 his favorite years answers was always season 1...

 

I do remember some con were he talked about he didn't want his current story, the mark storyline dropped like season 8 with purgatory.  But he quickly moved on, to another topic.

 

I don't really like the new pic, it looks cheap to me.  But it isn't the first time they reused a shot.  The used the snake one more than one year too.  In some ways Supernatural is lucky because on another network I don't know if it would have made it.  TNT seems to kill good shows way to soon, Leverage comes to mind.

Edited September 5, 2014 by 7kstar

[Demented Daisy]

IMO, Syfy is worse.  Much worse.  *grumbles in a corner for the nth time about Alphas*

 

I'm not sure that reading into body language is a good idea.  Hell, cops and the FBI can't agree on what body language constitutes guilt.  I understand this is a Spec thread, but drifting into discussions about tone of voice, body language, what isn't said, etc. may not really help us.  Too many interpretations.

 

But then, I'm of the opinion that just because an actor likes a story line doesn't mean it's a good story line.  I have some weird ideas.  ;-)

[7kstar]

IMO, Syfy is worse.  Much worse.  *grumbles in a corner for the nth time about Alphas*

 

I'm not sure that reading into body language is a good idea.  Hell, cops and the FBI can't agree on what body language constitutes guilt.  I understand this is a Spec thread, but drifting into discussions about tone of voice, body language, what isn't said, etc. may not really help us.  Too many interpretations.

 

But then, I'm of the opinion that just because an actor likes a story line doesn't mean it's a good story line.  I have some weird ideas.  ;-)

Oh I can agree about the interpretations, and which why you can only ponder if this is true or not.  A good actor is very aware of body language and how to use it.

 

I think the problem with actors liking a storyline, is that some are not aware of their limitations and then others put down their abilities.  But us fans can't agree on which stories are awesome and awful.  But some stories challenge the artistic side of acting and usually that is why they like the storyline.  (A lot of actors have large egos, it's what helps them to thread the dangerous waters of rejection)

 

I know I wouldn't mind playing a lead in "Death of a Salesman" but I really don't want to watch it as it is just to dang depressing.   

 

I'm just too use that the show I really love gets canned, so it is nice when it lasts longer than I thought it would. 

[Demented Daisy]

A good actor is very aware of body language and how to use it.

 

 

Oh, no doubt.  But when we're talking about interviews or cons, actors (generally) don't act.  I'd be very surprised if any of them, when not in character, spend their time thinking, "Oh, I need to make sure I don't fidget too much so it doesn't appear as though I don't like the interviewer or the questions."  I know I'd be focusing so hard on not giving too much away that I probably wouldn't be thinking about my body language at all.  ;-)

[AwesomO4000]

IMO, Syfy is worse.  Much worse.

 

I'm still bummed about FX not giving "Terriers" a chance to find an audience. That was a great show.

 

Ditto recent NBC... okay so "Siberia" wasn't literature, but it was more intriguing (In my opinion) than "Under the Dome," and the network should've tried harder to promote the uniqueness of the show. From what I understood, much of the dialogue wasn't pre-written: to keep the reality show "feel" a lot of the actors playing the characters were given the plot direction and then they made their own dialogue based on their character. I'm not sure how often that has been done, but I found the results fascinating myself. There wasn't enough to promote the show, if you ask me. The least they could've done was not leave it on a huge cliffhanger (*grumble, grumble, grumble*).

 

And I guess this goes back to what we were saying about the lack of promotion of Supernatural. Sometimes I wonder who makes these decisions on which shows to promote and how. I, for example, ignore all of the other show promotions during Supernatural, because I'm never going to watch them. Wouldn't they do better to promote Supernatural related stuff -  like the DVDs, for example? I was actually very surprised to see a quick season 9 DVD plug on TNT this morning/afternoon, since I don't remember seeing those too often.

[catrox14]

Seen on tumblr from the s9 gag reel. What are you even doing, Jensen.  Also, arms.

http://itsjustjensen.tumblr.com/post/96737857648/excuse-you

 

 

Yes Awesom04000.  Terriers was fantastic. I LOVED that show.

[7kstar]

He definitely is working out again and I'm loving every minute of it.  Did he get a new puppy and that's why he is carrying it?  While I really enjoy the arms and the awesome tease,  yes I'm selfish, I want to see a bit more.  :)

[catrox14]

That is Genevieve's dog and it's from the gag reel

Edited September 7, 2014 by catrox14

[Ferniesfreckles]

Spoiler from TVLine that's apparently pissing off a lot of people.

Not me :)

Question: Can you find out if Castiel and Crowley will be in the 200th episode of Supernatural? —Franca

Ausiello: I can, I will and I did. “We can’t give too much away about the 200th episode or the storylines leading up to it,” a spokesperson for the show tells TVLine, “but we can say that while Misha Collins and Mark Sheppard are not in the episode” — not a huge shock considering series-regular status doesn’t guarantee a presence in all episodes produced — “they, and many other favorite characters from the past nine seasons, will be represented in a way that we think fans will love.” Considering how unique the show’s past meta episodes have been, in what crazy way do you think “Castiel” and “Crowley” will make their presence known?

[catrox14]

Eh. I don't trust that spoiler.  Ausiello doesn't always get things right. That said, if it's true, Cas and Crowley were not in the show for the first 3 season there might be a legitimate story reason for them not to appear. 

 

Look I hate the demon!Dean storyline but now that it's here, I want it to be handled in a serious way and make it truly meaningful and IMO if he's normal by the end of the 200th color me...bleh. It needs to be for a longer time and even Jensen said he doesn't want it "scrapped up" too quickly and IMO the 4th episode is too soon.

 

I'm thinking the 200th is tied to Dean's return to humanity. And I really don't want that to be the case.  Here's my squirrely thinky thoughts after seeing that spoiler (if it's even true).

 

Maybe Sam called Becky to help him make a spell by doing a "This is YOUR life, Dean Winchester" play to help Dean see his humanity and all that he did that was good and right, (you know since Sam told him he was POS in the Purge) and loved to break him out of his demon state through love which would parallel Dean's supposed breaking through to Samifer in Swan Song) along with Sam's blood being injected into Dean.

 

sidebar: Heh, I almost wish Dean had to be transfused with Sam's blood to save his life and that Sam wasn't really completely free of the demon blood which turned Dean into a demon.  I should write about that.

 

If Becky or a fan is writing fan fiction maybe Dean becoming a demon was only fan fiction and everything that happened was fan fiction and Dean never actually became a demon.  What if the entire MoC story was a fan fiction spell?

 

Frankly I won't like any of those options because IMO that's big cop out and another premature ending to Dean's big ass story arc. 

 

I keep going back to King of the Damned, when Abaddon brings Gavin to the future and Crowley lets him stay.  Sam says "The lore all says the same thing -- you change any one thing in the past, the ripple effect impacts everything that follows".

 

But the line that had me saying "RUHHHRRR?" and me giving the show a long, hard side-eye was Dean saying "I just still can't get over the fact that Crowley has a son." WAT?

 

As many mistakes in continuity as the show makes I find it hard to believe they would make that kind of mistake because the boys absolutely knew Crowley had a son because it was the entire reason Bobby got of his deal with Crowley. So yeah gaping continuity fail or big thread left dangling that can be used to alter a timeline. So, what if....

 

Cas and Crowley are not in the episode because the timeline is now altered enough that Dean never went to Hell? Ugh...no no no.

 

I really hope all my musings are 100% wrong and it's just that Becky hates Cas and Crowley and won't have them in her play for Becky reasons.  Yes let's just go with that. 

Edited September 11, 2014 by catrox14

[Mcolleague]

Another example of really bad PR. How could they not have anticipated the backlash on this? I mean, I don't even feel like Misha HAS to be in this episode if it doesn't fit with the story - but this is such a landmark episode, and they went out of their way to call it "a love letter to the fans" and everything, which is totally salt in the wounds for Misha's fans. They definitely could have handled this better. 

 

I think it's pretty much confirmed Misha won't be in the 200th episode. The news has been tweeted to the writers and Suzanne Gomez etc, and a few of them have commented and noone denied it. Becky's presence came from a less reliable source though, and is still considered to be just a rumour, isn't it? Hopefully it'll be a fun episode and doesn't poke fun at the fans in an offensive way. 

 

ETA: The Season 10 promo is here!! Oh man......

Edited September 11, 2014 by Mcolleague

[Demented Daisy]

Well, that was revolting.

[SueB]

Becky was pure speculation from TVGuide in terms of 'What if'.
We have BTS indicating it's a high school production.
Misha not being in 200 bothers me too as I feel he's directly connected to the show getting 10 years. Base on Ausiello's spoiler I think there are faux Cas and Croeley.

That promo is is good IMO. The last karaoke bit is funny/horrible. I mean that in a good way. Sam torturing demons is kinda run of the mill. If this is the worst he does, I don't see the monster label.

 

ETA:  Wait a minute.  He was singing MY PREDICTION (I'm Too Sexy)!!!!  I thought it was "Imaginary Lover?"  We have that promo picture and convention confirmation.  Does this mean 2 songs?  I think I may crawl under the table during this part of the episode.

 

Because I can (and I liked the promo), I'm going to spend some time breaking down what I see.

- It covers 3 episodes it appears

- Sam is torturing a demon and she either tells Sam Dean is a demon or confirms it. So, clearly, Sam knows Dean is a demon before they have their confrontation in #3

- Dean is using the blade - at least two or three times -- which says to me he's killing

- Dean wears a cowboy hat to the karaoke place? Must be a secret wish to be a cowboy.

- Dean really doesn't care that he's caught on tape. If anything he pointedly is looking at the camera.  What kind of an end-game is THAT? 

- "Oops" the morning after: another girl calls? Crowley leaves a damning message? IDK but it doesn't seem anything horrific

- At one point I think he is fighting an angel because the opponent (in black) has an angel blade.

- Cas and Sam's conversation about it not being "Dean" seems like a post-demon discovery

- Seems like Crowley drops the dime on Dean to Sam and Sam thinks Crowley has stuck Demon Minion #3 in there.  Crowley sets him straight.

- Crowley's proposal to Dean? Unless there's more too it, it's not very sophisticated.  Why on earth would Crowley think Dean wants to run Hell?  I think Dean would find it boring.

- Cas is with Hannah

- Cas gets beat up by another angel (not Hannah) with a blade

- Cas appears to have crashed his pimp mobile.

- Dean appears to be clearly more than Crowley can handle.

- Sam calls it a disease (apparently) and I like that Dean says he doesn't want to be cured. (Because why would he? What is his upside if he's a demon?)

 

Raised hope/expectation: Carver oversold the monster bit. Dean is horrific from a killing people perspective but he's still got a "Dean-ness" to him so I think it'll ultimately be okay.  Him letting himself get caught on video tape is interesting.  It could just be "doesn't give a shit", but it also seems like baiting (Sam or the police). 

 

Lowered hopes/expectations: I'm definitely of the impression the rowdy-Dean is 3 episodes only.  I don't know if he's cured (or tamed) by EP 4 but demon-rampage bit is over. I think they oversold some things. I also am worried we have very little Cas. I want a Cas/Dean confrontation.

 

My perspective BTW: I KNEW the minute he took on the Mark of Cain that Dean was going to be dragged through the dark mud.  I'm not happy he's a demon. I'm hoping he somehow gets back to human.  If he never gets back to human than I very very sad.  It's his humanity that makes him easy to relate to.  But I'm here for the ride and hoping that we get SOME form of Dean back  but someone who doesn't think he's a pile of shit.  And I still have hope for that. 

Edited September 11, 2014 by SueB

[Aeryn13]

I think the promo wasn`t terribly suspenseful. Apparently the only spoilers we got about Demon!Dean was "guy on a bender" was because that is pretty much the only thing happening. Which disappoints me. I wanted to see some powers and badassery and not just beating up Schmoes and hooking up with chicks.

 

It`s actually nice to see him enjoy himself but they could have done more with the change. At least the hook-up looks consensual. As I speculated, he probably starts being dickish the morning after.

 

I wonder what`s going on in that scene where Dean is whaling on that guy and Crowley and everyone else looks on. Crowley, I actually get. He looks pensive in a "hm, maybe I didn`t think this through" way but why does noone else try to interfere? Is this a demon meeting or something?

 

And he actually wanted Dean to make "the perfect hell with him". Like, how? What did he think Dean would do or how he would contribute?   

 

Sam torturing a random demon is pretty much run of the mill for this show. There needs to be more to it. 

[Demented Daisy]

- "Oops" the morning after: another girl calls? Crowley leaves a damning message? IDK but it doesn't seem anything horrific

 

 

My first thought is that he tells her that he didn't wear a condom or used some deception to get her in the sack.  Yuck.

 

I like that Dean says he doesn't want to be cured. (Because why would he? What is his upside if he's a demon?)

 

 

Parallel to Sam not wanting to get his soul back.

 

I know I'm in the minority, but I want human Dean back sooner rather than later.

[Aeryn13]

 

- Dean is using the blade - at least two or three times -- which says to me he's killing

 

There were spoilers that he killed some guys and beat others half to death. The show could still easily keep it in the clean by having him kill supernatural creatures - the guy in the alley looks like a demon or an angel, at least not human - and "just" beats humans to a bloody pulp. I count at least two bouncers, the one in the store and that guy outside where I still don`t know why Dean picked him out. I mean, the promo looks like him and Crowley are just randomely walking by, then Dean spots this dude and starts whaling on him.

 

With the girl, I really do think he just farted and is all "oops, teeheehee". Which, while dickish, is seriously on the low end of the dastardly schemes. Not wearing a condom? I would have expected her to notice it. And saying he used a line to get her in the sack? Eh, to be honest, that wouldn`t bother me really. She still would have willingly had sex with him. If someone whines later like "I thought you were a talent agent" or "I thought you were joining the army tomorrow", I just roll my eyes. You can think of the guy as a jerk but that doesn`t make the sex retroactively unconsensual. Own your own decisions.  

 

I hope the demon part is only supressed. I get why he can`t be the hyper version for longer than two or three episodes but if there is a mix with human!Dean later, it still could make for interesting stuff. And I can`t say enough how I wanna see some godamn powers. I had to sit through Sam!powers multiple times, now it`s Dean`s turn.

 

My main concern is how they resolve it all for the character. Will he get his big redemption storyline or will they simply go back to a all-about-Sam with ultra pimpage storyline? I`d be fine if Sam just revolved around Dean this year and in the Finale Dean gets the big Saviour moment. Sam can be there and cheer.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Aeryn13

[catrox14]

Ugh. I fucking knew that's what they were going to do with Dean. 

 

I just don't see how Dean comes back from this. EVER. It's worse than I thought. I mean Jensen is great but fuck that shit. I am so upset right now :(. I am disgusted that Dean is pawing that stripper. He would never do that in a million years. 

 

I assume that  the people he is killing are regular humans. And that is more than I can take. He murdered the one guy last but that guy was a murderer so it felt okay.  But this. This is just Dean Winchester. Murderer :(:(

 

And just can't accept that our Dean would ever want to stay a demon. I just can't.  I know I said the consequences needed to be real. Take it back. Take it all back.  I can't :(

Edited September 11, 2014 by catrox14

[Aeryn13]

 

I just don't see how Dean comes back from this. EVER. It's worse than I thought.

 

You mean the killing? Because anything else is just mean-spirited. With the killing, like I said, it depends on how far they`ll go. Despite of what Carver spouts, this is not "all Dean, all the way", though. Being turned into a demon HAS to mean some sort of change, otherwise it wouldn`t happen in the first place. So of course he would be different. And as demons go, he is tame.. 

 

Azazel, Lilith, Alistair, Abaddon? No comparism. Cain, your friendly neighbourhood beekeeper expositioned how he killed and maimed for centuries.  ,

 

In the end nothing I saw in the promo bothers me too much on a "darkness" scale. In a couple of my other shows Dean could act like this and still be considered part of the good guys while doing it. Maybe he`d earn a weary eye-roll at the most.

[catrox14]

 

You mean the killing? Because anything else is just mean-spirited. With the killing, like I said, it depends on how far they`ll go. Despite of what Carver spouts, this is not "all Dean, all the way", though. Being turned into a demon HAS to mean some sort of change, otherwise it wouldn`t happen in the first place. So of course he would be different. And as demons go, he is tame..

 

I don't think it's just mean-spirited though. IMO the essence of Dean has always his humanity.  He didn't want to hurt innocent people. He largely always respected women in spite of being promiscuous.  He doesn't need force himself on women. That's never been a thing.

 

Ugh. :(. 

[AwesomO4000]

I agree with @Aeryn13 on this. Dean is not entirely Dean. He's a demon when he didn't want to be. And how could that be considered any less of an influence than say demon blood? Season 4 had Sam ordering the killing of an innocent who was locked in a trunk and could've easily been exorcised, so it wasn't like killing a demon in a fight where a quick decision had to be made. Sam was on demon blood, but he was still Sam - so even less of an "excuse" than Dean has as a demon - but he still had the nurse killed, because he thought it was necessary to save the world - shades of a "Jus In Bello" decision there.

 

To me, if Dean as a demon would be shades of vampire Dean, that is when I would roll my eyes. We don't even know yet if Dean is going to kill innocent humans - and my guess is that they likely won't go there - but even if he does, I don't think it's necessarily something Dean can't come back from. Sam's character has come back from that at least three times that we know of (and likely a bunch more that we don't). There are plenty of ways that Dean can be shown making reparations.

 

As for Dean not wanting to be cured, I agree with @SueB, why would Dean want to be cured? It's similar to soulless Sam who figured out that having a soul would = suffering. Dean's suffered more than almost any character I can think of, and for a brief moment he's having a break from that. In my opinion his not wanting to go back would be understandable, because if he did want to go back without any reservations/trepidation, he'd have to be the biggest masochist ever. And I personally hope that Dean can actually make some progress away from his "I'm a piece of crap, everything is my fault, and I only deserve to be beat down/ have bad things happen to me/ etc," because I'm more than ready for that. And if Dean getting a taste of being a demon goes towards that end, personally I'm more for it than against it. And I also hope that it's something that Sam lets Dean know he understands and so is something they can - finally - understand each other over.

[Aeryn13]

 

I don't think it's just mean-spirited though. IMO the essence of Dean has always his humanity.  He didn't want to hurt innocent people. He largely always respected women in spite of being promiscuous.  He doesn't need force himself on women. That's never been a thing.

 

I don`t know if you`ve ever watched old Star Trek but there is a pretty famous episode where Captain Kirk gets split in half by a transporter accident, one good half and one evil. The evil half is a genuine menace, even tries to force himself on a lower-ranking officer. That didn`t mean that Kirk - who jhooked up with everything in a skirt in the entire universe - generally just wanted to kill people and rape people and just didn`t get around to it previously. The point of the episode was actually that the bad half was too evil and the good half too timid and you needed both to survive and especially be a leader.

 

It would seem ludicrous to me if Demon1Dean was not significantly different than human!Dean. As a demon he has to be changed. And I wouldn`t even say he wants to hurt innocent people, like, this is his reason to get out of bed. He just gives no shits if they bother him. He has no filter. And why would he respect woman still? He is out for self-gratification, he respects noone but maybe himself.

 

Also, why would he want to be cured? The demon is in charge now and that holds true if Dean were possessed or - as the case here- his own soul has been changed into a demon. And for the demon there are only upsides to remaining this way and no downsides. That isn`t Dean as we know who would look at the world and say "a demon? kill me now and do it quick". That stage has passed. That is the demon and the demon thinks being a demon is great. He would probably go "back to human? kill me now and do it quick". 

[catrox14]

I've seen that episode of Star Trek and I don't think this is the same thing. They didn't kill either side of Kirk to do it.

 

I did not want Demon!Dean to be delineated by sexcapades because that is really no different than regular!Dean except now he seems to just be less likely to accept a no given his pawing of the stripper, which is SUPER problematic for me.  I don't want Deanmon to just be a killing/fucking machine. 

[catrox14]

This is a better quality version of the promo.

 

[SueB]

 

He didn't want to hurt innocent people.

 

Here to offer a few crumbs of rationalization on your concern. Also, just 'cause I'm offering this doesn't mean I don't feel your pain. There's a certain horrible feeling when you watch a character you relate to do things you just cannot accept.  Been there.  For Demon!Dean I'm going to spitball a couple of potential "why it may be not-sooooo-horribles" but I promise nothing, show could be worse than I'm suggesting.

 

#1) Define "innocent".  As Aeryn said, we aren't talking a Lilith-class babyeater here. And Dean has always had an edge to him when he thinks humans deserve punishment. Remember when he let the theif who was dying suffer a couple of seconds longer in "Appointment in Sammara?" That guy was not an innocent in Dean's mind and Dean told him hell was hot.  So Dean has a morality to him that will save a douchebag from death-by-monster but doesn't lose much sleep when the "victim" is someone Dean thinks is a dirtbag.  

Video 'evidence':

- The man Dean is pummeling on top of the truck was yelling at the woman before hand.  Maybe he's abusive towards her (remember..spitballin...). In that case Dean is happy to exercise vigilante justice and beat the snot out of the guy.

- The guy in the alley that he appears to use the Blade on is an angel I think. Not sure if he's innocent or not.

- The bouncer -- no clue.

- The convenience store - no clue

So, the "no clues" COULD be innocents but both appear to be approaching Dean. So in Dean's currently demonic "warped" mind, there may be something about them that takes them off of the 'innocent' list and makes him think they deserve a beat down. Now normal Dean wouldn't do that because he has restraint.

 

#2) "Pawing the stripper", treating his hookup bad. We know how much normal Dean loves sex and he seemed to genuinely appreciate porn stars, strippers, and potentially prostitutes. He's truly judgement free on this and presumes consensual participation by the women in the specific industry.  Now the presumption of consensual participation is problematic from my perspective (Doylist view) but in-show, Dean shows admiration for these women. So..and this is definitely edging on fanwank vice just spitballin'... Dean may have a unfettered high opinion of his own attractiveness and skills. So perhaps he's presuming that he's giving these ladies a good time**. It sounds horribly arrogant but an all-id Dean could potentially go there.

Video evidence:

- "I'm Too Sexy." (Too soon for me to crow about calling that one?? Okay..) Seriously, look at those lyrics.  Dude thinks he's sex on two legs. He's not actually wrong.

- "Imaginary Lover." (not in the video but in the promo shot) Well .. apparently this is a song about..self love. And Dean is either indicating with this song choice that it's better than an actual hookup (i.e. 'himself' is better) or there's a hidden indication that he's having a difficult time feeling satisfied with his hookups. Man, these sentences are difficult to write. But I think you get the drift...

- The way he's smiling at the stripper and she's smiling back, I'm not so sure she's giving him the 'go away you make me uncomfortable face'.  So in Dean's mind, it's okay to grope because she's giving him non-verbal positive feedback. Normal Dean said last year that most of his "dates" were strippers. Normal Dean's view of a stripper appears to be that she enjoys what she is doing.  So.. if in all-id Dean's mind, it's a consensual pawing...then maybe he doesn't think he's treating her bad.  Now please note, the important thing here is that I'm suggesting Demon!Dean thinks it's consensual. I'm not suggesting ...not in any way/shape/form... that her profession allows him to take liberties.  I just think Dean (demon or not) sees her as a person who would actually LIKE Dean to touch her.

- Of all the morning-after mean-spirited things Dean could do with his blonde bed partner, starting off the conversation with "oops" suggests a lack of deliberate cruelty at least.  But we don't know what the "oops" was about and what his rejoinder will be if she comments on the situation.  I love Dean Winchester but he HAS the ability to be a jerk. He could very well say something more jerkish than he normally would if he feels she's offended by his lifestyle. Normally it appears he maintains the 'one night only' approach while simultaneously making the experience very personal (without pointing out that this is a frequent occurrence). If she says something critical, I can see him being verbally rough. 

 

So... I don't want to give false hope...but I can also see how this is an all-id Dean but still Dean.  He's not eating babies. He's not out of his mind or on the edge of control (like Vampire!Dean).  He seems to be aggressively pursing some hedonism and unilaterally deciding who is a an innocent and who is not. 

 

**ETA: One Tumblr interpretation was that he had a "happy ending" and she did not. Which would completely violate my theory and make him a jerk if they have a one-night-only and she doesn't get a happy.  JMO YMMV.

Edited September 12, 2014 by SueB

[Aeryn13]

Now, we didn`t see all that much of Demon!Dean but minus the - possible - beating to death humans, like the bouncer who just did his job or so, his behaviour just seemed jerk-ish. It`s something a human guy on a bender might do. And while I would call that guy a real jerk, I wouldn`t call them evil. Again, minus murdering.

 

I think Carver`s total incompetence in giving interviews has somewhat deluded the subject "this is all Dean, 100 % Dean bla bla" is taken to mean as if it`s actual the human Dean the audience has always known over 9 years with his exact same thought processes and feelings who just randomely put in black contact lenses. Whereas I presume what Carver means to say is that this isn`t an outside demonic entity possessing Dean but Dean being turned into a demon.

 

That is still a far cry from it being the Dean of Season 1-9. Yes, it`s his soul but his twisted soul. And twisted is a key word here. If he still acted nice to women or politically correct or something, where would the demon part come in? To some degree, the demon-ness IS both explanation and excuse to me.

 

So far in the promo I haven`t seen anything that would make a human TV character totally unredeemable, let alone one who is not totally himself. If Dean-as-Dean acted like this, it would be harder to take. But as a demon by demon standards, Dean looks tame. Cain, after being turned into a demon via Mark and Blade, slaughtered people by the hundreds or thousands. For centuries. We only saw it in a short flashback but it is the character`s backstory.

 

If the most "dastardly" things Demon!Dean does are what the promo shows, he is still the nicest and most well-behaved demon in the entire universe. At which point I would say Dean`s actual human character must be a complete saint if even in an evil-turned form he doesn`t wreck up true shit.      

[DittyDotDot]

That promo screamed crappiness, to me. It appears they mined a couple of episodes for things to get the fans all tingly and randomly strung them together--Dean shirtless, Dean karaokeing and such--I thought it was horrible, lacks cohesion and doesn't make me optimistic for the season at all. That just goes to prove that I should do as I did last year and avoid the promos like the plague.

 

If the most "dastardly" things Demon!Dean does are what the promo shows, he is still the nicest and most well-behaved demon in the entire universe. At which point I would say Dean`s actual human character must be a complete saint if even in an evil-turned form he doesn`t wreck up true shit.      

 

I'm assuming that the most dastardly things Demon Dean does will be off camera and only spoken of (like with Soulless Sam) I think the things we see on camera will be only as dastardly as the CW Standards and Practices will allow.

 

 

ETA: The only thing I thought was mildly interesting was Crowley wanting to build the perfect Hell with Dean--I didn't say surprising, just somewhat interesting in that Bizarro kind of way of mine.  ::cough:: Crowley and Cas in S6 ::cough::

Edited September 12, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[SueB]

 

I'm assuming that the most dastardly things Demon Dean does will be off camera and only spoken of (like with Soulless Sam) I think the things we see on camera will be only as dastardly as the CW Standards and Practices will allow.

That's my expectation as well.

BTW, there's an angel blade rolling around on the floor of the convenience store. So either another angel or Dean took the last guy's blade.

 

 

ETA: The only thing I thought was mildly interesting was Crowley wanting to build the perfect Hell with Dean--I didn't say surprising, just somewhat interesting in that Bizarro kind of way of mine.  ::cough:: Crowley and Cas in S6 ::cough::

Two images come to mind:

- Crowley telling Sam he just wants to be loved, that he deserves to be loved!

- Crowley and the three Team Free Will's (i.e. Goldilocks and the three bears). Cas was too righteous. Dean is too random.  Does that make Sam "just right"? 

[catrox14]

Eh I'm not so sure that they won't show Dean doing the worst stuff.  CW standards and practices seem only to apply to the use of 'asshole', "shit', and fuck on the show.

 

I mean seriously I am shocked at own much SPN actually gets away with.

 

The torture of Alastair by Dean was gruesome; the torture porn of Ruby and Meg; all manner of gross things that like people eating each other's faces and locusts coming out of a guy's brain; a child being tortured by Cas to check on the status of his soul; skin peeling of shapeshifters; those horrible creepy lamprey faced kids in s3, etc..etc. etc. 

 

So I'm not entirely convinced that they won't show Dean doing some pretty heinous things.

 

Fucking Demon!Dean has me so confused. Like I can't stand the thought of him doing terrible things but it also feels like a godsdamn waste of story arc to not have him do heinous, but it scares me what heinous things that will be. 

[SueB]

 

but it scares me what heinous things that will be

Lots of gore and violence gets past S&P. Sex, not as much. Although Supernatural gets away with TONS of urban-dictionary phrases that I think S&P allows because they are the bad words. 

 

Truth be told, I think it's the show-runners who'll keep the most disturbing stuff off screen.

Edited September 12, 2014 by SueB

[DittyDotDot]

They do get away with a lot of gore, but I remember listening to a commentary that said something to the effect that you can do almost anything with a corpse, but you can't actually show some of violence done to a living human. That's why they can get away with some of the gruesome stuff they do. It doesn't make a lot of sense, but that's Standards and Practices for ya.

 

I'm leaning towards them telling us all the dastardly rather than showing it because they seem to like to talk big, but show small, IMO.

[SueB]

Hey did you notice itty bits:

 

- Dean's anti-possession tattoo is still ON.  Not scratched out at all.  So, it's not MUCH of a super-power Aeryn, but at least it's something unusual?  I'm guessing because Dean transformed internally to a demon. It's not a demon wearing Dean's meatsuit.  I suppose they did that on purpose to make that point.

- He reaches for his MoC right after he says "oops". No clue why.  Perhaps an subconcious tick Jensen added to the character.

 

Observation from tumblr (I think it's persephoneshadow's)

- Clothing for Dean is different for what appears to be the same scene (black vs green shirt) when he's at the karaoke bar. We may be looking at multiple people repeating the story to Sam.

Edited September 13, 2014 by SueB

[catrox14]

That was the big debate after the end of the season was that we knew Dean had is anti-possession tattoo which was our clue that he had been turned into an actual demon.  So that didn't surprise me at all.

 

And Jeebus Frakking Cripes...Jensen's arms and chest...HOLY CARP. He has definitely been working out more.  whewww....so that's for that!

[AwesomO4000]

And Jeebus Frakking Cripes...Jensen's arms and chest...HOLY CARP. He has definitely been working out more.  whewww....so that's for that!

 

Apparently in Supernatural when your character becomes "evil" and doesn't sleep as much, you spend the extra time working out --- as with Soulless Sam and now Demon Dean. ; )

[catrox14]

Apparently in Supernatural when your character becomes "evil" and doesn't sleep as much, you spend the extra time working out --- as with Soulless Sam and now Demon Dean. ; )

 

LOL. I'm just glad Jensen didn't completely change vessels like Jared did between s4 and s5.  Good lord Jared.. Roid much?

Clothing for Dean is different for what appears to be the same scene (black vs green shirt) when he's at the karaoke bar. We may be looking at multiple people repeating the story to Sam.

 

 

So is this going to be like Dean trying to find Cas in Purgatory and Sam will be lopping off heads until he finds him?

[catrox14]

HOLL-EEE CRAP.  I don't think this is an official CW promo post but a fan thing but it damn well should be.  This is AMAZING. 

 

[Aeryn13]

 

Dean's anti-possession tattoo is still ON.  Not scratched out at all.  So, it's not MUCH of a super-power Aeryn, but at least it's something unusual?

Since Dean got turned into a demon Cain-like and not possessed, I never thought the tattoo would go. Why would it? So sorry, nope, that doesn`t even fill 1% of my powers-quota.

 

And I`m mad if we`re not gonna see anything else but beetle-black eyes when I had to be bored to Sam-powers for years on end.  

[7kstar]

I know there is a contest for fanart for Season 10 as it popped up on my facebook page.  I do like the pic and wish TPTB had done a better job, but maybe the fanart will make up for it a tiny bit?

 

My thinking is that the Mark is driving Dean...the need to kill is still there.   Dean may no longer need to worry about dying, but he may not have the willpower to not give in to the killing and he is just doing all the things he wouldn't allow himself to do before...

 

Wondering if Sam has hidden Dean's knife so for now he needs Sam alive to get his knife back or if Crowley has gotten his hands on it and he thinks Sam will be a way to get it back....

 

Jensen's arms...wow...I don't think he will really get as bulky as Jared because he said working out like that hurts but whatever he is doing me likes. 

 

One of the things I can deal with Sam, in Season 3 he did some major stuff trying to find the trickster, so far I'm not seeing something to throw Sam under the bus,

              as A.  He is really thinking about his brother's relationship and trying to find him

                   B.  He really really hates demons...so if he is torturing a few demons...I can live with that.

[catrox14]

So I dunno, this "I hate demons" line kind of bugs me because if anyone knows that Sam hates demons it would be Dean. No reason to even have Sam say it because it's not like demon!Dean doesn't have his own memories. It reminds me of the stupid exposition in the pilot when Dean is explaining to Sam about their own shared life as kids LOL.

 

As to Jensen's arms upper body development, I read some recent scuttlebutt on another blog that he might still be in the mix for an MCU role. Maybe part of his getting more buff is for that.

 

I agree that I want Dean to show some actual badass powers, like flinging guys across a room or learning how to silence Crowley like Cain did.  I really am going to be sorely disappointed if we don't see Cain again.