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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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trxr4kids

trxr4kids

(edited)

Wow Catrox and I was worried that season 10 would be the same old rinse and repeat. That sounds completely original (huge eye roll). I wonder if Cas will swallow all the grace in heaven and explode again.

ETA: Speculation

Aside from grace swilling Cas, I think Sam will go darkside by using MOL knowledge and become addicted to it. Demon Dean upon being reunited with Darkside Sam is overcome with his wonderful memories of Sammy. I'm picturing The Way We Were playing as a montage of images flash through Deans head while he stares at the Impala. Presto his eyes clear, he grabes Darkside Sam and says, "it's okay I gotcha Sammy, it's gonna be okay". They both then get sucked into a gaping abyss that has been slowly building up in the backgound. They both land in the most frightening place imaginable, a meeting between writers and showrunners of Supernatural.

Edited by trxr4kids
catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

LOL. Yeah, I can see that they keep talking about who is the real monster. I dunno, part of me really loves the idea of Demon!Dean because it gives Jensen something new to do, but on the other hand, the one thing that I have always treasured about Dean is his complete imperfect humanity. And now that Dean was actually killed dead in s9 but resurrected as a demon how can they really get him back to humanity and have him not live out the rest of his days as a hypocrite by continuing to kill demons. I mean will he even want to kill demons anymore? Geez if Dean wasn't self-loathing before he sure will be again, assuming he somehow gets back to being completely human!Dean, which in a way seems like a copout. I dunno I have such mixed feelings about demon!Dean. I'm trying to keep an open mind. But gosh it's hard.

Edited by catrox14
trxr4kids

trxr4kids

(edited)

 

  Geez if Dean wasn't self-loathing before he sure will be again, assuming he somehow gets back to being completely human!Dean, which in a way seems like a copout. I dunno I have such mixed feelings about demon!Dean. I'm trying to keep an open mind. But gosh it's hard.

 

I don't have mixed feelings, I hate it. I don't think this is going to turn into a Dean storyline that actually gets resolved, he'll still hate himself and this time with good reason. He'll still have to save Sam from himself, probably with some ridiculus speech about Sam being the center of his universe and the sole reason for his existence. Sam will be made to be the worst ever hypocrite/bad brother/villain but he'll never acknowledge his flaws, he's only allowed to spew Dean's or what he percieves as Dean's faults. If the show is renewed for season 11 we'll get to listen to how much Sam and Dean both blame Dean for everything from Justin Bieber to taking the MoC.

 

I'm seriously sick of this shit, I kept hoping the show would get back to what made it popular in seasons 1 thru 3, saving people, hunting things. They killed that when they had Crowley kill just about everyone we saw them save. So really what good has come from them hunting? What was the point? The new show motto should be hating our lives and eachother, killing anything that would take to long to save. End rant!

Edited by trxr4kids
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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Okay this has my mind whirring. I'm starting with the last spoiler that says a big character is returning in the location for Purgatory. If it's actually a Purgatory scene that would be cool. But it could be a re-purposed location too.  Since it's a scene from the episode Jensen is directing hard to say. Let's obsess

 

It better not be Bobby. Nope nope nope. Do not want.

 

--Why would Dean be in Purgatory? Oh gods. What if when he died with the MoC it made his soul go to Purgatory? :(:( Do demons go to Purgatory or Oblivion when they die?

--Maybe Sam goes into Purgatory again to try and get help to find Dean. They left that portal open for a reason.

--I'm going with Dean being in Purgatory again so it could be any number of monsters that he's killed.

Benny- Oh this would be good because Benny might be alive since we don't know exactly what happened to him in Purgatory.

Dick Roman- Oh that would be kind of awesome because we don't know what happened to him.

GORDON- YAAAAASSS that would be amazing. And Gordon would totally go after Dean. That oh yes I want that.

Bela

Ruby

Alastair

Azazel

 

As for the scene with someone against a tree with their arms over their head, that could be an outdoor sex scene with demon!Dean, please and thank you LOL. Who knows. Or demon!Dean is torturing someone or Sam is torturing someone to find Dean. 

 

Also, it looks like demon smoke coming out of that person's head in the background. LOL

Edited by catrox14
SueB

SueB

  • Author
(edited)

While reading Fangasm's report on a portion of VanCon 2014, https://fangasmthebook.wordpress.com/2014/09/01/making-history-at-supernaturals-vancon/

The comment by Jensen Ackles that stands out for me regarding the 200th episode is:

 

“I’ll say this,” he answered. “Jensen doesn’t sing.”

(boyish grin)

Crack theory to follow (and I kind of shoot it down) so read for AMUSEMENT ONLY,

 

What if during the 200th episode Sam and Dean come across their dopplegangers (Jared and Jensen) from the French Mistake episode?  I presumed that at the end of The French Mistake, Jared and Jensen were swapped back to their (somewhat devastated) universe when Sam and Dean came home.  But what if they didn't?  What if they swapped to Bobby's place and mean Angel zapped them somewhere out of the way.  If they were stuck here, what would they do? Theoretically they would be attracted to a play about their show.  It would be fun for Sam & Dean to run into fake them (Jared and Jensen). And Jensen DID mention he met with the showrunners (and I'm reminded about the comment that his only stipulation was to not play himself back during the French Mistake).  So it COULD work. And Jensen IS terrible at keeping secrets.  BUT (and now I shoot it down).. that would me French Mistake universe Jared and Jensen have been running around for 4 years looking like Sam and Dean and not dead. Plus the awfulness of Jared being married in that other universe and not able to get home to his wife. PLUS it's a high school production (based on the BTS photos).  So... it's unlikely that they have the French Mistake Jared and Jensen there.  It was just a random idea....

 

Other tid-bits:

- The 200th is a "love it or hate it" episode per J2. I'm hoping love it. The writers all love it.

- From the writer's panel: Jeremy and Bob plan out the whole season, the writers pitch ideas to them

- They were killing time trying to play basketball in the school gym. Jensen was reliving the glory days, Jared's arm made him kinda of ...not functional.  Thus confirming they are in a school for the episode.

- Mark Sheppard is continuing his fitness regime.  He was at the gym in the wee-hours of the convention.

 

Back to 200th:

If there was ZERO singing by Sam and Dean, I think they wouldn't have teased anything.  They gave a tease -- so something is up. When Jensen teases (bless him), he's usually giving something away. (see "eye-opener").

 

There are probably more tidbits that I missed. VanCon seems like a party -- it's close to the studio so crew show up. Very little "info-sharing" and more mardi-gras.

Edited by SueB
DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)

Back to 200th:

If there was ZERO singing by Sam and Dean, I think they wouldn't have teased anything.  They gave a tease -- so something is up. When Jensen teases (bless him), he's usually giving something away. (see "eye-opener").

 

I'm thinking Jensen was being coy there. IIRC, the question was: Does Sam and Dean sing? and Jensen responded by saying: Jensen doesn't sing and Jared doesn't sing. Sorry, I can't remember the exact quote, but I think that's fairly close. Then Jared says something to counter it like: or they do...and Jensen basically said he can't really tell us that. I actually watched video of this and my thought is that he's saying Jared and Jensen aren't singing, but some version of Sam and Dean (in the play) are. I generally suck at speculation, but that's what I got from it. I definitely hope that our Sam and Dean aren't singing and dancing because I think that would be very out of character for both of the characters.

 

ETA: I'll add links to the con vids in the actors thread...they're not particularly spoilerish, IMO

Edited by DittyDotDot
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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

The sizzle reel from Comic Con consisted of demon!Dean chasing Sam around the bunker and is 3rd ep of the season. The onset pic I posted is from the 200th episode and is the 5th of season. So what I want to know is if it's demon!Dean, alt!Dean, real!Dean, altJensen or real!Jensen. As much as I can't stand the entire demon!Dean thing it needs to last more than 4 episodes since IMO it's pretty much the most game changing development since Dean went to Hell.

 

I have a few crack theories.

 

--Since it's called Fan Fiction and seems to take place in a high school, maybe it's a fan story built off the French Mistake.  The fan creates a story wherein alt!Jensen and alt!Jared are now famous for being alt!Sam and alt!Dean. Fan writes to alt!J2 to visit said fan's high school because celeb reasons for charity or something. When alt!J2 get to the school they find out that a coven of witches are writing a musical version of "Supernatural" but they can't find anyone to be a good real! Sam and real!Dean so they use magic to compel alt!j2 to play real!Sam and real!Dean in the musical which requires they sing.  So it would be Jared and Jensen playing alt!Jared and alt!Jensen playing real!Sam and real!Dean and being made to sing.

 

--Or alt!J2 arrive at the high school and get drawn into investigating a real supernatural case so they decide to work it just like real!Sam and real!Dean would.  So it's alt!Jared and alt!Jensen playing real!Sam and real!Dean investigating a case. It would explain why Sam and Dean are in their fed suits working together on only the 5th episode of demon!Dean arc.

 

Or even crackier.

 

--Remember how Dean took to being a PA like a duck to water back in Hollywood Babylon? And how Dean loves music even if he can't really sing. And how demon!Dean apparently loves to karaoke?

Well, what if Sam and Cas decide to work a case at a high school. They go inside the auditorium and see a musical version of 'Supernatural' on stage being directed by .dun dun dunnnnn ...demon!Dean.  He would use his power to compel Sam and Cas into singing in the musical along side demon!Dean.

 

--Maybe they are trying to detox demon!Dean and this is all an hallucination that comes from demon!Dean's mind after having read one too many fan fics in his years of being on the internet. 

Edited by catrox14
DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)

The sizzle reel from Comic Con consisted of demon!Dean chasing Sam around the bunker and is 3rd ep of the season. The onset pic I posted is from the 200th episode and is the 5th of season. So what I want to know is if it's demon!Dean, alt!Dean, real!Dean, altJensen or real!Jensen. As much as I can't stand the entire demon!Dean thing it needs to last more than 4 episodes since IMO it's pretty much the most game changing development since Dean went to Hell. 

 

I was sure they would drag it out till fall sweeps (8-10 episodes), but based on comments TPTB have said and stuff they've released about the episode that Jensen directed, I'm speculating Dean gets "cured"--or whatever they will be calling it this season--either in the episode that Jensen directed (ep 3) or the one right after (ep 4). It sounds like Jensen spends a great deal of his episode tied up and we haven't heard anymore whispers about DemonDean after that episode that I can recall. Jared pretty much spilled that the 200th episode was them on a ghost hunt at the place where they were doing a play, which says to me that Dean is Dean or else I don't know how they would be hunting together. Although, this being Supernatural, a dream or alternate reality wouldn't be too surprising and Jared's comments were from before he had a chance to read the script, so he may have been totally wrong or trying to mislead everyone.

 

Either way, I'm thinking that Dean will be angsting about his demonic times all season, just as I'm sure Sam will be angsting about whatever it is that he did all season...they do love their angst and they do love their symmetry on this show. So, I don't think it will necessarily be over when Dean gets his soul cleaned.

 

The interview with Jared I spoke of: http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/supernatural_season_10_jared_padalecki_interview_sam_hunts_demon_dean-2014-07

Edited by DittyDotDot
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7kstar

7kstar

I'm thinking Jensen was being coy there. IIRC, the question was: Does Sam and Dean sing? and Jensen responded by saying: Jensen doesn't sing and Jared doesn't sing. Sorry, I can't remember the exact quote, but I think that's fairly close. Then Jared says something to counter it like: or they do...and Jensen basically said he can't really tell us that. I actually watched video of this and my thought is that he's saying Jared and Jensen aren't singing, but some version of Sam and Dean (in the play) are. I generally suck at speculation, but that's what I got from it. I definitely hope that our Sam and Dean aren't singing and dancing because I think that would be very out of character for both of the characters.

 

ETA: I'll add links to the con vids in the actors thread...they're not particularly spoilerish, IMO

Since Jensen never wants to play himself in the show, I doubt it will be him singing as well as he can.

 

Now an easy way to get Sam and Dean to sing is a spell or it is the actors of the play portraying Dean and Sam singing and not the real Sam and Dean singing.

 

They did say that it will be like French Mistake in that either the fans will love it or hate.  I think Jensen is very clear this will either be a hit or a big bomb.  But if it bombs their intention was to tell the fans how much they love them.

 

I also don't want the Demon story wrapped up in 4 eps, but it could be much like Soulless Sam, that Dean is working with Sam but he isn't back to himself.  This I could see them doing.  To some degree I'm not trying to figure this out, because any time I get too excited about a show, it always lets me down, but if I just enjoy the ride I'm much happier.  So I'm content to just ride this one out for now. 

 

The con video did seem to support the idea that both Jared and Jensen intend to pass Season 10 and get a Season 11 so they can give Welling a hard time in that they beat him in how long their show got to stay on the air.  So unless the show nosedives, I expect we will see a season 11.

DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)

Since Jensen never wants to play himself in the show, I doubt it will be him singing as well as he can.

 

I don't think I was clear...I never thought that Jensen would be playing Jensen and singing as Jensen, what I meant was I don't think that Jensen as Dean or Jared as Sam are the ones singing. I'm guessing he was being coy and saying that some version of Sam and Dean (other actors playing Sam and Dean in this play) will be the ones singing, but neither he or Jared actually sing in this episode. Does that make sense?

 

 

The con video did seem to support the idea that both Jared and Jensen intend to pass Season 10 and get a Season 11 so they can give Welling a hard time in that they beat him in how long their show got to stay on the air.  So unless the show nosedives, I expect we will see a season 11.

 

They will surpass them with this season. Smallville only did 216 episodes and Supernatural will finish S10 with 217 episodes. I'm not banking on a S11 yet since there has been no announcement that Jared and Jensen has signed on for another one and in the past those announcements came out around this time of year. I wouldn't be surprised if they did, just until they have committed to it I'm not banking on it. I'm sure the network will continue to renew it as long as the ratings stay up and they can milk a bit more money out of it, so I think it lays solely at Jared and Jensen's feet.

 

I also don't want the Demon story wrapped up in 4 eps, but it could be much like Soulless Sam, that Dean is working with Sam but he isn't back to himself.

 

The difference for me might be that they've already shown that DemonDean is far more than Sam can handle. With SoullessSam, he was still trying to be "regular" and generally let Dean call the shots and Dean for the most part tempered Soulless Sam. I don't know how they can do random hunts together with DemonDean so far off the rails and basically unstoppable. I'd rather they cure Dean than have him watered down so he can believably hunt with Sam.

Edited by DittyDotDot
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7kstar

7kstar

@dittydotdot, I think we are on the same page.  Since Jared can't sing, I don't really want him to sing, much.  I wouldn't mind if we got Jensen singing well, but I can't figure out how they could do that unless it was a spell that forced it to happen.

 

But I really expect it will be others singing as they play the parts of Dean and Sam.  I just hope the show is as fun as they are telling us it will BE!  :)

catrox14

catrox14

@dittydotdot, I think we are on the same page.  Since Jared can't sing,

 

I've heard just the opposite. Jensen has said that Jared actually can sing pretty well he just doesn't think he can.

 

definitely hope that our Sam and Dean aren't singing and dancing because I think that would be very out of character for both of the characters

 

They sang in No Rest for the Wicked. And over time Dean has let his geek flag fly. Demon!Dean apparently sings karaoke. So if this is undemonized Dean maybe some residual "not caring" has scraped off that part of Dean that would have been too ashamed or too shy to sing.

 

I don't think it would be out of character depending on how and why it happens.

AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

(edited)

I expect Dean to be a demon til mid-season but a demon either 'on a leash' or with some deal with Sam.  Perhaps he's decided to get a demonic cure but doesn't know what it is yet. Perhaps Sam has some trump card that keeps him from just running off.  IDK.  I'll be dissappointed if it's wrapped by EP3 or 4.

 

I was thinking along the same lines, SueB. Sam has time to figure out what happened to Dean. As soon as he finds out that Dean is a demon, I expect him to be looking for relevant spells. Just because Sam and Dean are "working together" doesn't mean that Dean has to like it. If Dean runs off, I personally would like to see Sam calling up demon Dean at least once and seeing the look on Dean's face. Maybe Sam might use some sort of binding spell to keep Dean with him and therefore an eye on him (so Dean can't do more damage) until something more permanent can be found. It would be dangerous and risky, and this to me would be a new dynamic for them.

 

I think it would be an interesting twist in that this time Dean would be the one wanting to leave and Sam would be the one wanting to keep him, both because he wants his brother back and because he wants to save Dean (from himself in this case).

Edited by AwesomO4000
catrox14

catrox14

Eh, I dunno about the spell keeping Dean leashed because let's face it, he's been leashed to Sam his entire life. I kind of hope they don't do that.  I hope they subvert it in some way.

 

I'm hoping it's Dean that wants to hunt because he just does and that Sam doesn't want him with him and that maybe it's Dean that has some goods on Sam based on stuff Sam did whilst trying to find him. 

DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

I'm rather tired of the "forced" to be togetherness of the last couple of seasons and/or the "I must stay with my brother because he's my burden" like S4 and S5 felt like. I would prefer they choose to work together, both of them. Just because Dean is cured by episode 3 or 4 doesn't mean it will be wrapped up. They can still explore it and deal with the consequences. I think it would be better than them trying to leash a demon, let alone Dean, so that he's basically no different than working with real Dean but snarkier and all.

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

@catrox14 - Eh, I dunno about the spell keeping Dean leashed because let's face it, he's been leashed to Sam his entire life. I kind of hope they don't do that.  I hope they subvert it in some way.

 

But why would Demon Dean want to hunt?

 

And I don't think that Dean has been leashed to Sam his entire life - Sam left and went to college for 4 years and Dean wanted him back. (Dean was more leashed to John then in my opinion). If Dean chose to be with Sam, that was his choice to be "leashed"... and that's different in my opinion.

 

@DittyDotDot - I'm rather tired of the "forced" to be togetherness of the last couple of seasons and/or the "I must stay with my brother because he's my burden" like S4 and S5 felt like. I would prefer they choose to work together, both of them.

 

I do agree with you there DDD. I was more thinking of if they keep Dean a demon, because I can't think of any other way they would have demon Dean working with Sam. If they went with a Sam is going to trust Dean anyway because he's my brother thing, that would either make Sam an idiot - because um no, you can't trust demon Dean. Even if he decides he doesn't want to kill you, that doesn't protect the rest of the public. - or be really, really hokey, because power of love curing being a demon: they pulled it off with Cain (after he'd gotten being a demon out of his system), but Dean and Sam should not be at that point yet, considering their issues and conflicts.

 

So if they are going to put them back together, I think they'll have to cut demon Dean short. But perhaps we could have flashbacks later and that could cover it? Or maybe there could be supernatural consequences?

catrox14

catrox14

I guess I'm thinking that Demon!Dean will still have some residual attachments to Sam in some way. I'm not convinced that Dean trying to lop off Sam's head in the sizzle real is necessarily what Dean wants. I think he was testing Sam 

 

IMO the most basic thing about Dean is that he is a hunter so even as a demon he might want to hunt.  Maybe there are some other demons or dick angels he wants to settle a score with so he allies with Sam to settle that score. Or even even so terrible human beings. To my mind, if Crowley can work with the boys, maybe demon!Dean will too.

SueB

SueB

  • Author
(edited)

Try this link: https://twitter.com/DR_SPN_PHD/status/506891716730040320/photo/1

 

 

 

Cure Dean, get him back to being Dean

 

My worry: Dean will NEVER be Dean again.  We've heard he still has the Mark. So what species will Dean be when he gets "cured"? 

- Human?  Won't he just die again because the Mark is too much for a human body to handle?

- Not-evil demon (i.e. Cain)?

- Immortal? (not Cain but not human)

- Something we've never heard of yet but the writers pull out of their butt?

 

I just don't know. But "human" seems less likely to me than something not-human.  Which makes me very sad. 

 

 

Bah! Why must you make me think after a 3 day weekend? Why would SoullessSam hunt? He had no feelings, so he had arguably less reason than DemonDean would. To me soulless=no feelings=apathy, demonic=hate=violence.

I thought SoullessSam hunted because he LIKED it.  He liked the thrill of the hunt and frankly he didn't really have anything else TO do. Plus the mystery of who brought him back was slightly important to him and apparently tied to Samuel. So... I'm thinking it seemed like a good idea at the time. 

 

As for Demon!Dean, I think he would want to hunt to kill things.  Sam's good at research, probably better than Crowley. Crowley just wants him to be his lapdog and kill things Crowley wants dead.  Dean won't go for that. While Sam doesn't howl at the moon, at least Sam can help him find challenging kills and things he chooses vice being at someone's bidding. Maybe he's bored with "booze & babes".  And all it costs him is a little self control (like no killing humans). 

Edited by SueB
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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

 

My worry: Dean will NEVER be Dean again.  We've heard he still has the Mark. So what species will Dean be when he gets "cured"?

 

This is exactly my worry, @ SueB. Dean died. Like really most sincerely dead. 

 

Human!Dean could not handle demon!Dean as a meatsuit. There is no two ways about it. That's partly why I was so gutted about the finale. The one and only thing I have always, always, always loved about Dean is that he was so very imperfectly human. I just am really worried. I don't want him to be immortal or a demon forever :(.

Edited by catrox14
SueB

SueB

  • Author
(edited)

 

Like really most sincerely dead.

 Exactly.  And I don't feel I mourned him properly.

 

ETA: TVLine tidbit: http://tvline.com/gallery/fall-tv-spoilers-2014-season-premieres-photos/#!40/supernatural/

 

Complete repeat of other stuff except the bonus spoiler -- which IMO suggests Dean strikes a bargain with Sam after Cas provides some harsh home truths.

Edited by SueB
catrox14

catrox14

I can say that I have mourned him because I knew right away he was dead. And that was really due to Jensen's perfect Ackting. He's always played death disturbingly convincingly but I can say the moment he's stabbed and Dean looks up to see Sammy running towards him was one of the saddest things I have ever seen Jensen do.  Dean looked like he was already on his way to death and that he had let down Sam and humanity in the process. He looked like a little boy in a way. Dean was shocked but he knew it was over. Even now, it makes me tear up.

 

And yet there was debate here and on other forums that maybe Dean wasn't really dead. For me, Dean Winchester, the human man, was murdered by Metatron on May 20, 2014. I have been in mourning since then.

 

I am trying to accept that at least I'll have Jensen on my screen but it still feels like the most wrong thing to have ever been done to a character that I can think of in any show I have ever watched. (And that's far far too many).  It still hurts. :(. 

trxr4kids

trxr4kids

I thought SoullessSam hunted because he LIKED it. 

IMO he didn't have the capacity to like or even dislike anything because I maybe wrongfully assumed all feelings come from the soul. But I can believe that he hunted because he thought he should and had nothing better to do.

 

As for Dean eventually being cured since we can assume he will be (thanks show for your endless repetition), I think he'll be 100% human. Much angst will follow, I'm sure.

The only shocking twist that could happen at this point is if Sam and Dean were relatively happy again and saving people,(who aren't later gratuitously killed) hunting things.

  • Love 2
catrox14

catrox14

 

As for Dean eventually being cured since we can assume he will be (thanks show for your endless repetition), I think he'll be 100% human.

But how can he survive being cured if they do it the Crowley method? Dean was dead. How can he become undead if the Mark is what kept him alive? I can't think of any way to do that without magic. And it's not like his soul is in a jar somewhere that can be fetched all spankin' new.

DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

I'm thinking that cure, cures the soul. As far as his body being dead, I'm imagining that DemonDean healed Dean's body, now he only needs his soul healed...which is what they were doing when they tried to "cure" Crowley. Dean didn't die because his soul was damaged, he died because Marvatron stabbed him in the heart and he bled out. Hell, any angel could heal those physical wounds and bring him back from the dead.  Don't forget that Dean was dead once before and the angels brought him back from the dead.

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trxr4kids

trxr4kids

But how can he survive being cured if they do it the Crowley method? Dean was dead. How can he become undead if the Mark is what kept him alive? I can't think of any way to do that without magic. And it's not like his soul is in a jar somewhere that can be fetched all spankin' new.

Because they won't use the Crowley method, which sounds like an unreliable form of birth control btw. You're right Dean was dead, we think the Mark kept him alive and only magic or angelic intervention can save him. So either Cas gets his mojo back or Sam finds some magic spell in the LOL, either way. But of course those are the most reasonable, keeping in cannon ideas I could think of, so nevermind.

catrox14

catrox14

Dean was resurrected by Castiel and he should have been a thriller reject but his was healed body and soul. Dean didn't resurrect himself in either case.

 

The problem with demon!Dean is that human!Dean's meatsuit was already dying even before being stabbed because it was human and unable to survive the MoC unless Dean continued to kill. 

The more he killed the better he felt, the less he kills the less better he feels
"the least best better".

 

His humanity is gone.  He became a new kind of life. It seems to me that if they get rid of the thing that created this new kind of life, then it has to reset him him back to being human. Otherwise he's a superhuman if he can heal himself.

DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

His humanity is gone.  He became a new kind of life. It seems to me that if they get rid of the thing that created this new kind of life, then it has to reset him him back to being human. Otherwise he's a superhuman if he can heal himself.

 

Right, he became a demon...which is what the cure is supposed to do, remove the demon stain from the soul. Dean's soul is still in his body, just twisted and demonic. So, in theory, all they should need to do is cure his soul...he will still have the Mark, but as long as he doesn't die again, he should be back to where he was before Marvatron stabbed him.

 

So, I'm thinking they will do the "cure" in ep 3 or 4, but since Dean still has the Mark will still have the urge and need to kill things, but he won't be fully-on demonized any longer. I think this is how they will be able to have Sam and Dean hunting together for most of the first half.  Similar to how they had Dean and Soulless Sam hunting together in S6, Dean will be less demonic, but still not fully human Dean and will need Sam to keep him from going off the rails. I'm also betting that they'll figure a way to get rid of The Mark Of Cain around mid-season--which will give us back regular recipe Dean--and then deal with the consequences of it all in the back half of the season like they did with Soulless Sam.  That's my crackpot theory anyway.

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catrox14

catrox14

 

Right, he became a demon...which is what the cure is supposed to do, remove the demon stain from the soul. Dean's soul is still in his body, just twisted and demonic. So, in theory, all they should need to do is cure his soul...he will still have the Mark, but as long as he doesn't die again, he should be back to where he was before Marvatron stabbed him.

 

He didn't get demonized like other demons, I don't think. It was solely from taking on the MoC and touching the First Blade.  It's not like he had the humanity destroyed over hundreds of years. It's more like he got Cain's THOUSANDS of years demonity pumped into him in a short period of time. So that could mean his humanity is closer to the surface because it happened pretty fast and maybe his could be reverted quicker.On the other hand it seems like he might also be an uber demon and because of the process his humanity is almost totally absent and it would be harder to reset him. 

SueB

SueB

  • Author

The more I think about it, the more I think Cas's words are a turning point.

Supporting 'hard' data:

- Cas gets the snot beat out of him in Ep3 (Misha tweet)

- Cas and Dean are at great odds. Cas wants Dean back but won't accept Dean just being a demon on the loose causing destruction. (Comic Con interview)

-Sam and Dean have a confrontation in EP3 (Comic Con footage)

- Sam and Dean are working together in EP5. (Interviews regarding 200th ep)

- The Demon!Dean storyline is not going to be over right away (Carver interview comic con)

Supporting second hand data:

- a main character gets beat up against a tree in EP3 and and it's a key moment in the season

Adding indicators (opinion sprinkled here)

- Misha is the BEST politician when it comes to keeping fandom calm and happy. Especially those who favor Destiel. If you look at the Comic Con interviews they were all what I would term 'defensive briefs'. Misha has laid out Cas' devotion to Dean (Cas is ignoring his impending death to get Dean back). He's given Cas's POV (Demon!Dean is not Dean, and Cas wants Dean back). Plus made it clear Cas and Dean are not on the same side. MY READ: It's not going to be a pretty argument.

Parallel Proclivities (now moving into speculation): As they LOVE their parallels, let's talk about past Cas/Dean conflicts

-S4: in the beautiful room Dean yells at Cas and then turns his back on him and says 'we're done'. Cas olds and rebels from Heaven to try and stop Sam from killing Lillith

-S6: Dean tells Cas to stop with the Purgatory plan JUST BECAUSE he's asking. Cas doesn't. Godstiel happens and it's a big mistake.

-S8: Dean begs mind-controlled Cas not to kill him and take the tablet. It causes Cas to break a bit of the mind control with Naomi long enough to pause.

Pure speculation:

- Seems like Dean is beating the snot out of Cas (maybe after some harsh words) when Cas says something that draws the line for Dean. And Dean stops trying to kill Cas with his bare hands.

- Perhaps Cas threatens Dean with a version of 'we're done' combined with perhaps a more real threat of additional angelic engagement.

- Maybe Cas strikes a bargain with Dean to give him time to de-demonize so long as he stays with Sam and keeps to normal hunting.

I could see THIS being a motivation for Sam and Dean to work together while Dean is still a demon. Unfortunately, I think Cas is not hanging with the boys very much.

DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

SueB, you neglected to mention the time Cas beat the crap out of Dean in the alley in Point Of No Return. Not that it changes your argument, but I didn't want it to be left out of your other Dean/Cas confrontations and/or bludgeonings. ;)

 

I'm sorry, if all they have to do to have DemonDean behave is get his angel boyfriend to demand he be nice, I'm going to be pretty disappointed. Either he's a demon or not and Castiel talking him out of being demonic seems rather tame to me. I wouldn't be surprised if Cas gets the crap beat out of him by Dean while setting a trap with Sam and the reason it's a big moment is that it will be one of the contributing factors to Castiel's weakened state and possibly almost kills him. Which will eat away at Dean once he's back to being human and also will probably be what makes Castiel stay away from them for most of the season.

 

I'm assuming Carver's comments about DemonDean storyline not being over right away means they may cure him, at least part way, early on, but they will be dealing with the fall-out all season; not that Dean will necessarily be an actual demon for very long.

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SueB

SueB

  • Author

DDD thanks for the adder. I'm okay with Cas being the one to at least break through his drug like demon bender. And I don't think a good talking too is all it'll take. I expect Sam or Cas to have some additional leverage to motivate.

But there was also some comment (Meet & Greet maybe) that Jensen indicates that Dean tells Sam he has to make sure Dean doesn't go too far. So, I still think we are in a halfway zone for a while.

Mertensia, I have no doubt Crowley is going to get some abuse but we know for sure Cas is beaten up because of the picture Misha tweeted. Then again, if all 4 haven't shed some blood by EP3, I'll be stunned.

catrox14

catrox14

 

east break through his drug like demon bender

 

As much as I hate the advent of demon!Dean, they need to do it right. I want demon!Dean to be the scariest demon on the planet.

 

The MoC and killing was an addiction and put Dean in a drug like stupor as a human but now he  is an actual full blown demon through and through infused with Cain juice. IMO the only two entities that should be stronger than him are Cain and Lucifer (or God) so it should and better be a lot harder to return him to humanity than Cas giving him another beating or talking too. That is way too easy.

 

 

I'm thinking its Dean beating the crap out of Cas against that tree because "it's the natural order of things" as demon!Dean said in the sizzle reel. As cold and terrible as it sounds I don't think the power of brotherly or angelic love should be enough to stop demon!Dean. IMO Dean is going to have to want to stop for his humanity to return and from what Jensen says, demon!Dean cares not about anyone or anything, and given human!Dean's penchant for self-loathing I suspect demon!Dean cares not about human!Dean either.

 

I think it will be Dean beating the crap out of Cas because he either randomly encounters Cas or Cas has found him of his own accord. I don't think it will necessarily be a trap.

 

I hope Crowley is so afraid of the monster he created that he's willing to work with Sam and Cas to find Cain and reset Dean to human.

 

I also wouldn't mind if this was the final season and Dean remains a demon throughout and then in Suck Song 2.0 it's Dean getting his own toy soldier moment as he is beating the shit out of Sam or Cas. Dean gets back his humanity just long enough to stop beating Sam and Cas, but for Sam it's too late, Dean has already killed him and then Dean drops dead.  Cas dies. The. End. And then we can debate if it was Sam or Cas that got through or human!Dean that broke through because of his love for Sam and Cas.  :):)

Aeryn13

Aeryn13

 

I also wouldn't mind if this was the final season and Dean remains a demon throughout and then in Suck Song 2.0 it's Dean getting his own toy soldier moment

 

That would only mean something to me if he got the big world-saving sole hero moment from it. If he just stops beating on one or the other? Pfft. That means nothing to me.   

 

I assume Dean will be semi-undemoned by episode 4. From what we got in spoilers, the kind of demon he will be in episodes 1-3 is noone who would stay around for casual hunts. Since the writers are incapable of writing a Season-long mytharc without fillers, there have to be casual hunts. Ergo, Demon!Dean needs to be changed back to a state where he can function in such episodes. And not as an antagonist.

 

Also, the Mark of Cain seems to remain so they can milk that. I mean, logically, he would still be "immortal" but if he "dies" again, it stands to reason he would get turned right back into a demon? That would make him both more and less suited to take risks.

 

Hopefully, they just don`t do the stupid and lame blood curing from the third trial. Not only do I hate everything connected to the trial storyline and never, ever, ever, ever want to see it back but the image of super-saintly Sam curing Dean with his super-saintly blood? Do not want. The versus writing on the show is bad enough as it is.

It`s fine if it is discussed as a possibility but it shouldn`t work.   

 

I wished the "your whole life you were always a selfish, cowardly loser" speech would get adressed but I doubt it. I mean, Demon!Dean could snark that even as a loose canon killer, he was apparently a step up from what Sam deemed him to be as a human. Because actually, he would be. Pretty much nothing could be lower than what Sam described in his generalizations.  

Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)

I can`t remember reading about this. It would have to be Human!Dean saying that anyways because Demon!Dean sure as hell will not tell anyone to stop him or keep him in check from the looks of it. And if human Dean says it, that would indicate the demon has been somewhat put to rest so the best Dean could ask would be "if I turn again, kill me right away". Which, okay, should be harder than it sounds if original recipe Cain has looked for a way for eons.

 

What Jensen said however was that Cas would say to Sam "hey, if this goes too far, you know what has to happen" aka if Demon!Dean can`t be stopped, he needs to be killed.

Edited by Aeryn13
ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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