Spoilers With Speculation

[SueB]

Nice coat theory Catrox! I'm going to pay attention to it from now on.

Well color me bummed. I had really hoped that the fart cloud was a God boobytrap. But if Amara is generating it 'again' then clearly not.

So last time, the black veiny types went after Amara. I don't get why she creates creatures that want to kill her. Of course maybe she doesn't hang around.

But what's the point? And where is Casifer? Melted to the side of the rail car?

And how do the boys go to a fart cloud town and not get infected?

So many questions.

[Aeryn13]

Speculation for Chuck`s "proposal". If he is God which is highly likely at this point.

 

Re-do of how Amara was imprisoned the first time. We know it was somehow done via the MOC. We know Lucifer got it and we just learned that Amara once trusted Lucifer.

 

So what if it works like a Devil`s Trap for her. Lucifer asked to meet, she trusted him, he came with the MOC and bam, off she was. Don`t know how she can wear it not herself but it could be any kinds of lol!canon!reasons. Maybe that Mark was powered out like the hands of God.

 

God`s proposal? He makes a new mark and needs a new flunky to bait Amara with it. And yes, logic would dictate it be Dean because she could fall for such a trap with him as bait but they can easily make up something like he had it and can`t take it again or he can`t do it because of the "bond" or whatever. Just, I wouldn`t bet on it being Dean.   

[DittyDotDot]

Well color me bummed. I had really hoped that the fart cloud was a God boobytrap. But if Amara is generating it 'again' then clearly not.

So last time, the black veiny types went after Amara. I don't get why she creates creatures that want to kill her. Of course maybe she doesn't hang around.

 

Perhaps the veiny people are the God booby trap, not the fart cloud? Although, where they've been all this time, I don't know, but could be a theory, ya know?

[SueB]

Perhaps the veiny people are the God booby trap, not the fart cloud? Although, where they've been all this time, I don't know, but could be a theory, ya know?

Oh, I like that. Like the response of God's creation to Amara's fart cloud is to "attack."

[catrox14]

Nice coat theory Catrox! I'm going to pay attention to it from now on.

Well color me bummed. I had really hoped that the fart cloud was a God boobytrap. But if Amara is generating it 'again' then clearly not.

So last time, the black veiny types went after Amara. I don't get why she creates creatures that want to kill her. Of course maybe she doesn't hang around.

But what's the point? And where is Casifer? Melted to the side of the rail car?

And how do the boys go to a fart cloud town and not get infected?

So many questions.

 

Heh. I kind of obsess over Dean's wardrobe because I always think there is something to what he wears and why.  But I'm probably wrong too LOL

 

And yeah sorry about your fart cloud theory.

 

Maybe this is just a case of another lousy plot synapses.

 

It sounds a lot like "Good God, Y'all" with townspeople going mad and turning on each other.

 

If the fart cloud is causing the citizens to go mad in that town, that might give my "Things are rotten in Denmark" spec some legs since Dean and Sam were in the fart cloud from the get go so maybe one or both have been affected all along. Hmmmmm and Chuck shows up here too....

 

What if Chuck is living in that town and started writing again when Dean lost the Mark. Like it triggered his prophesizing but the fart cloud messed with his mind and he's been writing this alternate universe for that past 10 episodes. Where things are just slightly off but not enough for it to be obvious.  I AM NOT LETTING THIS GO! LOL

 

So what if it works like a Devil`s Trap for her. Lucifer asked to meet, she trusted him, he came with the MOC and bam, off she was. Don`t know how she can wear it not herself but it could be any kinds of lol!canon!reasons. Maybe that Mark was powered out like the hands of God.

 

Someone on Tumblr said that Amara no longer had the Mark on her chest in that last episode.They said they noticed it when Rowena was working to heal her. I didn't notice that did anyone else? If that's true, is that a continuity flub or intentional?

[Aeryn13]

 

Perhaps the veiny people are the God booby trap, not the fart cloud?

 

The summary says their old remedy no longer works. I took that to mean the redemy Sam got against the veiny people. They never had or needed one against the cloud itself.

 

And the infected father still did everything to protect baby Amara. I don`t know she was ever in much real danger in the Season Opener. I think they just made it seem like it for the "surprise" reveal in the second episode on how the baby was Amara.   

 

 

Someone on Tumblr said that Amara no longer had the Mark on her chest in that last episode.They said they noticed it when Rowena was working to heal her.

 

Rowena was working on her back, the Mark is on her front. I think they probably didn`t bother to apply it to Emily for the episode as the spot where the Mark should be was covered with clothing. And there wasn`t any callback to it so putting the actress through that particular make-up wasn`t needed. Just as I`m sure they didn`t bother putting the MOC on Jensen for every episode of Season 10 when it wasn`t needed.

 

But I do believe she still has it. 

Edited April 15, 2016 by Aeryn13

[Diane]

Heh. I kind of obsess over Dean's wardrobe because I always think there is something to what he wears and why.  But I'm probably wrong too LOL

 

And yeah sorry about your fart cloud theory.

 

Maybe this is just a case of another lousy plot synapses.

 

It sounds a lot like "Good God, Y'all" with townspeople going mad and turning on each other.

 

If the fart cloud is causing the citizens to go mad in that town, that might give my "Things are rotten in Denmark" spec some legs since Dean and Sam were in the fart cloud from the get go so maybe one or both have been affected all along. Hmmmmm and Chuck shows up here too....

 

What if Chuck is living in that town and started writing again when Dean lost the Mark. Like it triggered his prophesizing but the fart cloud messed with his mind and he's been writing this alternate universe for that past 10 episodes. Where things are just slightly off but not enough for it to be obvious.  I AM NOT LETTING THIS GO! LOL

 

Someone on Tumblr said that Amara no longer had the Mark on her chest in that last episode.They said they noticed it when Rowena was working to heal her. I didn't notice that did anyone else? If that's true, is that a continuity flub or intentional?

https://twitter.com/TheJimMichaels/status/719903916255617024

Jim Michaels ‏@TheJimMichaels Apr 12

Jim Michaels Retweeted Mish

It was underneath the strap on her dress, the camera just didn't see it in the episode

Jim Michaels added,

Mish @fallencxs

@TheJimMichaels why didn't Amara have the Mark Of Cain on her in 11x18?

Edited April 15, 2016 by Diane

[Demented Daisy]

 

 

Supernatural 11x20 “Don’t Call Me Shurley” - Synopsis

ROB BENEDICT RETURNS - Amara (guest star Emily Swallows) unleashes a dark fog on a small town, causing everyone to go mad. Dean (Jensen Ackles) and Sam (Jared Padalecki) realize this is a stronger version of the original black vein virus Amara previously unleashed. They team up with the sheriff to protect the town but their old remedy no longer works. Meanwhile, Chuck (Rob Benedict) returns with an interesting proposal. Robert Singer directed the episode written by Robbie Thompson. Original airdate 5/4/2016 (x)

 

 

*giggle snort*  

 

As you were.

[catrox14]

https://twitter.com/TheJimMichaels/status/719903916255617024

Jim Michaels ‏@TheJimMichaels Apr 12

Jim Michaels Retweeted Mish

It was underneath the strap on her dress, the camera just didn't see it in the episode

Jim Michaels added,

Mish @fallencxs

@TheJimMichaels why didn't Amara have the Mark Of Cain on her in 11x18?

 

 

Ahhh, thanks!

[catrox14]

I was thinking more about that scene with Amara, Casifer and Dean at the end of Hell's Angel.

 

I can't decide if Amara is going to try to help Dean get Cas back as she almost had a look of pity on her face like she knows Dean would be crushed if Cas died OR if she misunderestimated Cas' importance to Dean, and the universe when she mocked him back in 11.10 and is now motivated to kill him instead. Is the torture just to get God to show to protect Lucifer and Cas? Is Lucifer really God's favorite or is it Cas?

 

I'm worried that Dean's "heart" choice is ultimately going to get Cas killed.  :(. Ugh that would be the literal worst. That would be like Dean inadvertently getting Sam killed.

 

We know Misha is in the finale..but his he there as Cas or Lucifer? It must be Cas though if the story of Dean and Cas hugging is true, because he would never hug Lucifer.  But would the show really kill Lucifer?  Maybe Amara exorcised Lucifer out of Cas and put him back in Nick's meatsuit or back in the Cage?

 

Just meandering thoughts

[Wynne88]

We've heard of a scene of Dean and Cas hugging.  There's been preview pictures of Dean and Sam hugging, with Sam kind of half burying his face on Dean's shoulder and Dean looking more stoic.  I'm thinking Dean is saying goodbye, which would mean that he will be the one to die or be banished to the empty, and that it is a planned thing.  Very very similar to Swan Song.  Just guessing though.

[catrox14]

If they are at Mary's grave, she really shouldn't be in there unless the firefighters and John find some of her remains in the house and they buried them there. I wonder if her grave is actually a pocket universe or a portal to the Empty in some way or there is something they need from that grave for a spell.

 

OHHHH what if Cas hid the First Blade and the demon tablet in Mary's grave and they are there to get them for the battle?

[SueB]

If Cas hid the first blade in Mary's grave that would piss me off. Dean hates that thing, I would think he wouldn't want it to have any connection to his mother.

[catrox14]

From Rue721 in  the bitterness thread:

 

Plus, remember when Castiel tried to "appear" to Dean in the S4 premier? If angels are that mind-blowing to humans in their true forms, and that hard on their vessels, then what would an earthly appearance by God be like?

 

 

Hmmmmm. I would think he would have to be born into a vessel like Amara did and gather his strength along the way.  So if they use Amara's strategy....that would mean Chuck had to have been God from birth which means he has been on Earth writing his own prophesies but didn't remember he was God or lied to Sam and Dean about not knowing them? 

[catrox14]

If Cas hid the first blade in Mary's grave that would piss me off. Dean hates that thing, I would think he wouldn't want it to have any connection to his mother.

 

 

Be that as it may, it is the perfect hiding place because Dean didn't like going to her grave in the first place and I don't think he ever planned to go there again. It's the one place that would probably NEVER cross Dean or Sam's mind.

Edited April 15, 2016 by catrox14

[SueB]

Fair. 

[Aeryn13]

 

I'm thinking Dean is saying goodbye, which would mean that he will be the one to die or be banished to the empty, and that it is a planned thing.

 

He could be saying goodbye to the others because they go to battle Amara and he stays behind because he and everything else thinks he is gonna be useless in the fight due to the unspecified bond. Maybe Amara would zap him to her still.

 

Normally, I would also think story logic would dictate Dean be the one but because of behind-the-scenes stuff, the writer and the respective excitment, I can`t see it. It`s not really a bait and switch either because Dean isn`t baited as the one so far. I guess it`s gonna be just straightforward.

[Diane]

https://twitter.com/TheJimMichaels/status/721049970988752900

 

Hint: The Greens Dept at #Supernatural is very busy for the season 11 finale episode! @cw_spn #SPNFamily

 

Sorry I would post the picture, but I don't know how.

[catrox14]

Thanks Diane. Here is the pic

 

Those like the SAME flowers that Dean woke up in the season opener.

 

 

[Diane]

Thanks, catrox14 how do you get the picture in the message?

[catrox14]

Thanks, catrox14 how do you get the picture in the message?

 

I just right mouse click and select copy image location then paste it into the image link in the tool bar

[Diane]

I just right mouse click and select copy image location then paste it into the image link in the tool bar

Thank you,

[Binns]

Might be a spoiler...

https://twitter.com/jensenackles/status/721059859727257601

[catrox14]

Since we know they shoot out of sequence from the script...

 

Where are Cas and Dean going and why are they alone?

 

Where is Sam?

 

Since Dean is wearing the same clothes, are  they driving to or from the graveyard?

[catrox14]

From Rue721 in  the bitterness thread:

 

 

 

Hmmmmm. I would think he would have to be born into a vessel like Amara did and gather his strength along the way.  So if they use Amara's strategy....that would mean Chuck had to have been God from birth which means he has been on Earth writing his own prophesies but didn't remember he was God or lied to Sam and Dean about not knowing them? 

 

Quoting myself to continue my thoughts

 

I still don't see how Chuck can be God unless he's been God all along and he didn't know he was God. I mean God can't be a liar right? He can be a jerk that abandons his children because "free will" reasons but if God is a liar then what is the point of God in this universe?

Edited April 16, 2016 by catrox14

[Demented Daisy]

Quoting myself to continue my thoughts

 

I still don't see how Chuck can be God unless he's been God all along and he didn't know he was God. I mean God can't be a liar right? He can be a jerk that abandons his children because "free will" reasons but if God is a liar then what is the point of God in this universe?

 

God lied to Abraham to test him, didn't He?  

[MysteryGuest]

But when we first meet Chuck, we see him by himself, and he's drinking and freaked out a bit by the visions he's having.  If he were God, this would not freak him out, because he's basically sending himself the visions.  It makes no sense for Chuck to be God based on that episode.  Now, if Kripke decided when he was writing Swan Song that he wanted Chuck to be God, then shame on him for fucking with his own canon just for dramatic effect!!

 

In case no one can tell, I really do not want Chuck to be God...

Edited April 16, 2016 by MysteryGuest

[SueB]

God lied to Abraham to test him, didn't He?  

Not actually.  He told him to do something (offer Isaac as a burnt sacrifice) and when Abraham was about to slice Isaac's throat, God sent an angel to stop him.

 

So he tested him but he didn't actually lie to him.

 

As for God always being Chuck... I don't think that has to be the case.  I think God could look like a kumquat.  His universe, his rules.  Conversely, Amara is entering God's universe. So perhaps she could only manifest as one of God's creatures.  So why Chuck?  Well, perhaps after Zachariah threatened Chuck, God stepped in an put Chuck in WitSec and assumed his form.  Or maybe he waited until the very last episode in order to protect Chuck when shit went down.  IDK.  But I don't think the rules for Amara MUST apply to God.  

 

As an engineer, I keep thinking in frequency.  Both are "energy", but one is in tune with this universe and one is not.

 

ETA: Greens department could be recreating a "Garden".  I wonder if someone is stopping by heaven?

Edited April 16, 2016 by SueB

[Demented Daisy]

Not actually.  He told him to do something (offer Isaac as a burnt sacrifice) and when Abraham was about to slice Isaac's throat, God sent an angel to stop him.

 

So he tested him but he didn't actually lie to him.

 

He told Abraham to sacrifice his son -- but that wasn't God's intention.  So, perhaps not strictly speaking a lie, but He deceived Abraham.  

 

I really don't want to get into a theological debate over what's a lie and what isn't, though.  

[catrox14]

He told Abraham to sacrifice his son -- but that wasn't God's intention.  So, perhaps not strictly speaking a lie, but He deceived Abraham.  

 

I really don't want to get into a theological debate over what's a lie and what isn't, though.  

 

If  SPN!God deceived Abraham, then I guess I can see where SPN angels get their lying liars gene. LOL

[rue721]

As for God always being Chuck... I don't think that has to be the case.  I think God could look like a kumquat.  His universe, his rules.

 

Just because he created it doesn't mean he has total control over it or even total access to it. The show keeps repeating the metaphor that God is a parent. But parents can't entirely control their children or get complete access to their thoughts/lives.

 

I don't think that God can just show up on earth, just like angels and demons can't. If angels and demons are made of energy that's is too powerful and/or incorporeal for them to show up here without vessels, then how could God, who has got to be even more powerful and otherworldly? But I don't think any human could possibly be strong enough to be a vessel for God, because even archangels have only a limited group of people to choose from and burn out those vessels very fast. Even regular angels were blowing lots of people up when they were trying to use them as vessels.

 

In reality, I think that God WILL likely show up on screen, in the form of some human/human-adjacent vessel. That's just how this show tends to roll. (Imo, that vessel will likely be Cas, because he's the only angel who has his own corporal body that can walk on the earth -- so he's probably got the strongest and most God-friendly corporal body in the world. Who knows, maybe that's why God made it. Maybe God made that vessel for himself and figured he'd let Cas keep it warm in the meantime). But I don't think that God coming down to earth actually makes sense, given the show's canon so far.

[catrox14]

 

(Imo, that vessel will likely be Cas, because he's the only angel who has his own corporal body that can walk on the earth -- so he's probably got the strongest and most God-friendly corporal body in the world. Who knows, maybe that's why God made it. Maybe God made that vessel for himself and figured he'd let Cas keep it warm in the meantime). But I don't think that God coming down to earth actually makes sense, given the show's canon so far.

 

Well, that will certainly mess with the Destiel O_O

[DittyDotDot]

Just because he created it doesn't mean he has total control over it or even total access to it. The show keeps repeating the metaphor that God is a parent. But parents can't entirely control their children or get complete access to their thoughts/lives.

 

I don't think that God can just show up on earth, just like angels and demons can't. If angels and demons are made of energy that's is too powerful and/or incorporeal for them to show up here without vessels, then how could God, who has got to be even more powerful and otherworldly? But I don't think any human could possibly be strong enough to be a vessel for God, because even archangels have only a limited group of people to choose from and burn out those vessels very fast. Even regular angels were blowing lots of people up when they were trying to use them as vessels.

 

In reality, I think that God WILL likely show up on screen, in the form of some human/human-adjacent vessel. That's just how this show tends to roll. (Imo, that vessel will likely be Cas, because he's the only angel who has his own corporal body that can walk on the earth -- so he's probably got the strongest and most God-friendly corporal body in the world. Who knows, maybe that's why God made it. Maybe God made that vessel for himself and figured he'd let Cas keep it warm in the meantime). But I don't think that God coming down to earth actually makes sense, given the show's canon so far.

According to Joshua, God has already been on earth for a while now. I'm not sure there'll be a huge global event now. maybe there was when he first started walking the earth, though.

[Myrelle]

JOSHUA: Actually, he has a message for you. Back off.

DEAN: What?

JOSHUA: He knows already. Everything you want to tell him.

DEAN: But…

JOSHUA: He knows what the angels are doing. He knows that the Apocalypse has begun. He just doesn’t think it’s his problem.

DEAN: (stunned) Not his problem?

JOSHUA: God saved you already. He put you on that plane. He brought back Castiel. He granted you salvation in heaven (he turns to face Sam directly) and after everything you’ve done too. It’s more than he’s intervened in a long time. He’s finished. Magic amulet or not, you won’t be able to find him.

DEAN: But he can stop it. He can stop all of it.

JOSHUA: I suppose he could, but he won’t.

DEAN: Why not?

JOSHUA: Why does he allow evil in the first place? You could drive yourself nuts asking questions like that.

DEAN: So he’s just going to sit back and watch the world burn?

JOSHUA: I know how important this was to you, Dean. I’m sorry.

DEAN: (emotional) Forget it. Just another dead-beat dad with a bunch of excuses, right. I’m used to that. I’ll muddle through.

JOSHUA: Except… you don’t know if you can, this time. You can’t kill the Devil, and you’re losing faith, in yourself, your brother, and now this?

 

This part of that scene from DSotM has always bugged me. I'm with Dean-Not his problem? Really? Truly? Honestly? And notice Joshua side-steps the question of whether God is just going sit back and watch the world burn. The Winchesters try. They at least try to fix/correct their own mistakes. They try to clean up their messes-even when those messes originated with power-hungry angels who've manipulated their entire lives and beings because their Dad ran out on them and refuses to answer or return or offer any kind of a reason as to why he decided to just disappear on his creation. So if he now shows up when it's not just his creation that's being threatened, but He, himself also, I'd want some real answers to that before I'd go hitching my wagon to his in any way; and I'm sure we'll get a heated exchange on it. I just hope that it will be a truly satisfying exchange and that Dean will be allowed to voice his displeasure, and most importantly, the reasons behind his displeasure with the SPN God-not the least being the imperfect lock and key that He created that was supposed to keep the Darkness bound. Clearly, God made some mistakes even if they were just in underestimating the character strength of the archangel in whom he entrusted the MOC. The Winchesters are not your average run of the mill humans. For better or worse,they may have played their own part in things that have threatened humanity, but they have also sacrificed everything time and time again to right their wrongs and to save God's creation and they deserve a fitting explanation for where he's been and why he just decided to disappear altogether for eons and,  most importantly, why he's chosen to show himself now, and only now. Could it be that it's because it's his own ass that is on the line too now, and in every bit as much danger as his creation's? It sure would seem that way to me if I were The Winchesters.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Myrelle

[catrox14]

 

Could it be that it's because it's his ass that is on the line too now, and in every bit as much danger as his creation's? It sure would seem that way to me if I were The Winchesters.

 

Right??

 

 

So, Chuck says he has  a proposal for the boys...but what kind of proposal would that entail? The only thing  Chuck did was write the Winchester books. 

 

What if Chuck offers to fix things through a re-write but he has to get their permission first. But maybe Chuck can only start writing again the moment before Dean kills Death. Dean would have the MoC again, BUT that would mean that Dean could choose to keep it this time, remaining as the lock and key, he doesn't kill Death and Death sends him to the Empty.

 

That sets up Sam and Cas to get Dean out of the Empty. 

 

BUT  since Jared was the one talking about the Mark at cons about other things it could do it must involve Sam in some way.  And I'm wondering if the Mark upon being removed from a former bearer means that it can't be put back on. and it has to go to the next in the Cain line....and that would be Sam. 

[SueB]

I think we'll get answers to your questions Myrelle. God (Chuck) doesn't stick around for 4 episodes without this topic being taken our and examined. The answers may be vague and up to interpretation, but I think he'll be questioned.

Note: it may not happen in the first of four episodes. With four episodes to play with, "what's up with God?", may be a slow burn.

Edited April 16, 2016 by SueB

[MysteryGuest]

I can honestly say I'm done with the Mark of Cain.  I really don't want anyone taking it back, for whatever reason.  We dealt with the damn thing for over a full season, and it's time for something new.  If God's coming, he can create another lock and key system, since the last one wasn't exactly foolproof.

[DittyDotDot]

The only thing I want from the Mark of Cain at this point is a good explanation why it's called the Mark of Cain since humans, let alone Cain himself, wasn't even in existence when it was created. Shouldn't it be called the Mark of Darkness? Hmm...that doesn't roll off the tongue just right, nor does "The Mark of Amara", "The Mark of the Girl in the Unfortunate Black Dress"...Sigh. I seriously disappoint myself today.  ;)

 

Anyhoo, I certainly hope no one takes on the Mark again--and I don't think that's where the show is headed--but, I think it does need to come back up again. If for nothing else to explain why Amara has the Mark.

Edited April 16, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[rue721]

This part of that scene from DSotM has always bugged me. I'm with Dean-Not his problem? Really? Truly? Honestly? And notice Joshua side-steps the question of whether God is just going sit back and watch the world burn.

 

Honestly, I don't know why God would get involved. What would be his incentive to get involved in heaven's political bullshit or in human ~dramz?

 

Back in S5, when that talk with Joshua took place, if God were paying any attention at all, I would figure that he'd just have been rolling his eyes at Lucifer's constant temper tantrums and watching to see if anyone else might have any luck dealing with that problem child. Why would Lucifer being out of the cage be a crisis for God? Lucifer is just a pain in the ass and a disappointment for him, not a threat (and probably not even interesting). In general, I wouldn't even expect God to understand human suffering or to care much about it. It's not like he could empathize (and he didn't seem to care much about angels' suffering, either).

 

Maybe he even wanted to see the world burn at that point, for some novelty. Regardless, he clearly had his own shit going on and his own priorities.

 

And if he did get involved, who's "side" would God even take? I don't know why Dean was so gung ho for God to come sort things out, because how would he know that God wouldn't be cheering on Zachariah or just deciding that this Free Will thing was a big fat mistake? There's no telling what God might decide. He just as easily could wipe out Heaven/Earth/Hell as he could save it. And if God decided to do that, what could the Winchesters even do about it? Better to keep the battles more manageable; there's no way for them to take on God ffs.

 

But I also think God's thing of constantly bringing Sam and Dean back to life, to the point that the show had to have Billie come flat out and say that they CAN die now, is more of a curse for them than a blessing. I mean, immortality is great and all, but they're basically modern day versions of Sisyphus, except that they're hunting things instead of rolling a rock uphill.

[Myrelle]

To me, "not my problem" strongly implies not caring, so if he didn't care then, why would he care now? Again, the only difference I'm seeing is that He, himself, is being threatened by Amara and she is just as powerful as him and as such capable of destroying him and all that he made. She is pissed at Him, specifically. And possibly with good reason. And he knows this. And he needs help, so now he shows up. Yeah, I'm not feeling a whole lot of respect for the SPN God right now and I'm thinking Dean won't be either. He's never been one to fanboy any God or Goddess or angel or demon or any supernatural entity for that matter-not willingly or sans being supernaturally-influenced in some way, anyway.

[catrox14]

Meandering thoughts.

 

In order to create the world, God had to give up the only thing He'd ever known. He had to betray and sacrifice His only kin. The Darkness -- His sister.

 
  

“Before there was light, before there was God and the Archangels, there wasn't nothing. There was the Darkness, a horribly destructive, amoral force that was beaten back by God and His Archangels in a terrible war. God locked the Darkness away where it could do no harm, and He created a mark that would serve as both lock and key, which He entrusted to His most valued lieutenant, Lucifer. But the mark began to assert its own will, revealed itself as a curse, and began to corrupt.

 
 
There is a HUGE continuity problem in the show because of the above from Brother's Keeper
 
If the Darkness is MUCH OLDER than God but he locked her away how did he create the world by sacrificing her? What kind of timeline are we talking here?

There is no implication that Lucifer was anything but good at that time he got the Mark since Lucifer was God's most trusted lieutenant. The only choice Lucifer had was to say no to the Mark but clearly he wasn't going to do that when his when his father and brothers were at war. Lucifer takes on the Mark and eventually it makes him go Darkside. Then because Lucifer rebelled  God tosses him in Hell...with the Mark he made.


Questions:

When did God create Hell? 
Was that to house his messed up humans?
Were the humans in Hell before Lucifer?
Or was he sent to Hell alone and then other souls came later?
How did he come to start creating demons? Did he want company?
Or was the Darkness trying to create her version of creation through the Mark via Lucifer?

Is Lilith kind of the child of Lucifer and Amara O_O....

 

 

So basically, God is the one who caused Lucifer to rebel in the first place because of a lousy security system and because he misunderestimated the power of Amara and the Mark...it seems.

 

To quote Dean and demon!Dean - 'Nice Work'

Edited April 16, 2016 by catrox14

[Aeryn13]

 

If the Darkness is MUCH OLDER than God but he locked her away how did he create the world by sacrificing her? What kind of timeline are we talking here?

 

Oh dear, maybe it`s another older sibling/younger sibling parallel. 

[MysteryGuest]

Let's face it, the Darkness/God's sister storyline was a mistake from the get go.  It was an overreach by the writers, and I think they've been winging it all season trying to get any of it to make sense.  The facts don't add up, and they just keep changing things to fit the effed up plot.  They cannot move on from this storyline fast enough to suit me.  I've enjoyed a lot about this season, but IMO, the Big Bads are the weakest link this year.

And can it really be called a "sacrifice" when you throw your sister in solitary confinement for all eternity, just so you can get your own way? I don't think so.  

[catrox14]

Oh dear, maybe it`s another older sibling/younger sibling parallel. 

 

Well that is no doubt LOL but my point is more like um...how did this even happen? I mean I'm seriously trying to work it out in my mind.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

 For better or worse,they may have played their own part in things that have threatened humanity, but they have also sacrificed everything time and time again to right their wrongs and to save God's creation and they deserve a fitting explanation for where he's been and why he just decided to disappear altogether for eons and,  most importantly, why he's chosen to show himself now, and only now.

Lol.  Or you could just read Job for the (non) answer to THAT....

[auntvi]

In order to create the world, God had to give up the only thing He'd ever known. He had to betray and sacrifice His only kin. The Darkness -- His sister.

 

 

Is this what Metatron told Cas? It's certainly possible that Metraton lied.

[catrox14]

Is this what Metatron told Cas? It's certainly possible that Metraton lied.

 

I had the same argument and question and still question it all but this was pointed out to me by someone else here.

 

 

Amara: God. I tried praying, calling out in need. He ignored me. He forced my hand. I had no other reason to harm his chosen. My issue is with my brother, not his creation.

 

And then Death said God and the archangels locked her away implying that Amara is God's Sister who he did sacrifice....

 

UNLES...this is one giant misdirect and there is a third sibling.....

 

Oh wait. There is going to totally be a third sibling isn't there? I mean that would parallel Adam with Sam and Dean....

 

What if the woman they introduce is really the half sibling for Amara and God?  I would not put it past these writers..I really wouldn't

Edited April 17, 2016 by catrox14

[MysteryGuest]

Please, no more God relatives...one sister is plenty.  We don't need God's whole dysfunctional family on this show.  It's bad enough we've been subjected to all the whiny angels all these years.  I would really love for them to move away from the heaven and hell conflict on the show, but I suppose that's too much to ask for.  We have one season left that we know of...please let them do something interesting with it!!

[SueB]

Crowley: 'He has relatives?!'

The new actress has a connection to Sam and Dean. In truth, I think she's plain human.

[Demented Daisy]

Looks like they're done.  Misha has been live streaming like mad with his kids and Jared posted on Twitter:

 

Jared Padalecki ‏@jarpad  7h7 hours ago
Thank U @chpinos for making our season 11 wrap so special & AMAZING! See U soon! @JensenAckles #BestChefEver