Spoilers With Speculation

[catrox14]

Amara is a knockoff of Jasmine (from S4 of Angel), so I think the reason she didn't suck out Dean's soul is (Angel spoiler)

the same reason that Jasmine didn't affect Connor. Dean and Amara have a ~special connection~ and he's her tie to this world. And like with Jasmine and Connor,

I think that Dean's ~special connection~ with Amara is what will allow Dean to kill her.

 

Although maybe anybody who has had the Mark, not just Dean, has a ~special connection~ with Amara and so would be able to kill her. Maybe we'll see Cain again or Lucifer will get out of the Cage again in order for one of them (rather than Dean) to kill Amara.

 

God forbid this show goes down the path of a TFW and Lucifer team-up.

 

Yeah many of us here were speculating from the get go this would be a Jasmine like arc. 

 

I can't imagine what Dean is going to do when he finds out Sam is in the Cage again, if we think Dean went on a rampage after Charlie? Hooo boy, Crowley and Rowena better hide and they are damn lucky Dean doesn't have the Mark anymore.

 

So I have a wild thought along the Cain thoughts, if Dean actually killed Cain, maybe he's going to summon a reaper to make a deal to find Cain again to use his help. Or to get the Mark back from Cain because it might take the FB and the Mark to kill Amara...or for that matter to kill Lucifer. Which BTW where is the FB?? Oh maybe Cas is off trying to verify Cain's status and  bring him into help if he's not actually dead

 

Ugh, I also just had a horrible thought! What if Dean having sex with Amara would allow him to take the Mark again. Maybe Dean has to be one with her to get the Mark so he can kill her. I HATE MYSELF FOR SAYING THIS. NOOOOOOO... Stop, brain! UGH I'm a horrible person.

 

No I don't want this :(. 

Edited December 15, 2015 by catrox14

[mertensia]

Why do you keep talking yourself into these "oh noes!" scenarios and then freak out over them?

[catrox14]

Why do you keep talking yourself into these "oh noes!" scenarios and then freak out over them?

 

Why you would ask that kind of question when all we do around here is speculate and have fun with it?

[mertensia]

Why you would ask that kind of question when all we do around here is speculate and have fun with it?

Because I was curious.

[Aeryn13]

I wouldn`t actually mind if Dean had sex with Amara though I doubt it will happen. The characters or rather actors have some nice chemistry and their kiss was hot in my eyes. Sure, Dean wasn`t all in his right mind but it is still tons better than sexual implications about a poodle or the master-and-literal-bitch thing with chains that witch episode had going on. In the end, I`m happy about any and all scenes with Dean and Amara because they are about giving him a story.

 

Them becoming one sounded like some sort of vessel-ing foreshadowing. Since the writing usually is trite, nonsensical and overly literal, this is likely going to be the outcome. Only, in this case I wouldn`t mind.

 

Still hope the entire Lucifer thing will be dealt with next episode. Bring him in as a faux-solution and then exit him again. He can depart some knowledge on the Darkness. Though, once again, ignoring any Dean-stuff here is ridiculous because it would be prudent to talk to BOTH Lucifer and Michael. Both are archangels, both would have helped defeating the Darkness and thus have relevant knowledge but only one of them is a major liar and manipulator. Both are also in the Cage so the vision of the cage should have pointed to them both. But nope, must only focus on Lucifer. Well, if he gives you bad intel, you only have yourself to blame, folks.

 

It is obvious Sam will be back out by episode 11 if that deals with some hijinks in some retirement home. He will most likely also not secretely possessed by Lucifer because how lame would that be?

 

Where is Metatron anyway? He knew who the Darkness was, he would also know how she was tricked. Why stop pumping him for information at "she is God`s sister". That is when the interview process STARTs because the witness has revealed their knowledge.

 

I also hope we`ll be getting a nice Dean-centric episode in the second half. 

[mertensia]

Clearly whatever Amara learned about Dean it wasn't enough; she should be trapping him somewhere where he can't do anything. A Dean free to plan and act is a very dangerous Dean. Frankly she should have grilled Crowley on Dean.

[Aeryn13]

I don`t think she thought much of Crowley. So she wouldn`t even think of him as a source for her intel on anything she wants to know - she has more faith in her ability to gather that herself - and she wouldn`t wanna tip her hand to him in regards to what interested her. When she finally did do that, it was calling splits with him anyway.

 

Overall, she seems confident enough in her bond with Dean to not be worried over what he might or might not do. 

 

Not quite sure if Dean is going to faux-hell as well next episode. He clearly approaches Billie but why would she help him? He has no freaking leverage or bagaining chips that I can see. But if he did go to the Cage 2.0 Lame, I wonder if Lucifer could see or would acknolwedge Dean having something with Amara?

 

Probably not, Jensen said it`s still not known to Sam after ep 10. Unless Sam is not hearing such a conversation. And Lucifer is such a 100 % Sam-character, it is doubtful Dean will have bubkis to do with him. Which is one of the reason I don`t want Lucifer to be a weapon against Amara. It would never be a "team-up", it would be a transference of story from Dean to Sam, full-stop. After which Dean would seize to matter and could just as well exit from the show.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Aeryn13

[mertensia]

I think the Reapers might be a little frightened of Dean.

[Aeryn13]

But why would they be? Tessa impaled herself on the First Blade and Death handed Dean the only instrument that could kill him and stupidly stood two inches behind him to have it be used upon him. That`s basically two "Reapers" who committed suicide via Dean. Unless Billie plans to trip on a banana peel and fall while Dean is accidentally holding on angel blade in an upward angle, there is not much he could do to her.

 

IF we had seen that Amara protecting Dean is a real thing and basically she would come smiting anytime he was in danger, then I could buy supernatural beings currently being afraid to engage him but that is not the case.

 

I love Dean, he is strong and resourceful and a true warrior type and he has certainly managed to take out some opponents outside his weight class, supernaturally speaking. But he has no powers. It defies belief for me that creatures with superpowers - and at least one brain cell intact enough to just stay out of range and use said powers - would be afraid of him. Like, what is he gonna do?    

[mertensia]

Death kept agreeing to his resurrections. Death let Dean play Death For a Day. Dean killed Death. He knows how to kill Reapers. Yeah, I'd be wary of him too.

Edited December 15, 2015 by mertensia

[DittyDotDot]

Dean has a history of pulling out wins that defy all logic. It would be foolish for reapers to underestimate him at this point. That's exactly how Death ended up dead, IMO. 

 

That being said, it didn't appear that Billie was all that frightened, just pissed. Which means she's probably toast. If I've learned anything from Crowley's longevity on this show: hubris gets you dead, caution keeps you alive.

[Aeryn13]

 

That being said, it didn't appear that Billie was all that frightened, just pissed.

 

All she would have to do is not show herself to him/not talk to him or even if she did, she could just say "no" and then finger-snap herself away. She has those powers. If she doesn`t - and to have a scene between the characters, she obviously won`t - it`s just utter stupidity on her part. Does she wanna gloat a bit at Dean?

 

I`m thinking the point of that scene is to convey some info to Dean on the Reaper`s threat about the Empty. I don`t think Sam shared that little morsel. 

 

But they need some serious explanation to go from "I need help to get to my brother" vs. "we reapers all hate you and are jonesing for the day you die to toss you into nothingness and would rather be slaughtered right here and now than to even lift a finger to help you" to "okay, I`ll help you". If that is what she does.

 

Previously, when the Winchesters worked with some supernatural entity, I could see some tit for tat or leverage in the approach. Right now it seems to be a flimsy "so, the Darkness is everyone`s enemy right so help us". But I doubt that works on a group that hate YOU more than the enemy you are proposing to ally against. Not to mention, getting Sam out of the cage in any way has no real correlation with defeating the Darkness at this point. It`s just about Sam. Reapers should celebrate his impending death, given their established attitude.

[SueB]

I fully expect a large motley crew of God's creatures to defeat the darkness.  

[mertensia]

I wonder how Amara was locked away- a spell? A trick? She voluntarily fled after being forced to watch Ishtar one too many times?

[DittyDotDot]

All she would have to do is not show herself to him/not talk to him or even if she did, she could just say "no" and then finger-snap herself away. She has those powers. If she doesn`t - and to have a scene between the characters, she obviously won`t - it`s just utter stupidity on her part. Does she wanna gloat a bit at Dean?

 

Sorry, I was referring to what we've seen of Billie on the show so far. I haven't seen the promo--nor do I have the desire to watch it--so I have no idea  why she would team up with Dean (I'm sure the show will come up with some bullshit reason though). Just saying she doesn't appear to be too scared of the Winchesters, so I wouldn't be surprised to find her dead soon.

 

As to whether she doesn't just go invisible: I'm not sure the show remembers reapers have any of those abilities you mentioned. Even Tessa didn't go invisible girl when she easily could've when Dean showed up and threw a wrench in her suicide bombing plans. I can't even recall the last time a reaper was actually invisible to humans now that they're considered angels and all. 

Edited December 15, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[Aeryn13]

 

I'm sure the show will come up with some bullshit reason though)

 

Yeah, that`s the thing. I`m sure of this as well but also so sick of them not planning anything in their writing so everytime they land in a corner, they get out because of bullshit reasons. If it happens once or twice or even say 50 % of the time, okay, but on this show it happens 100 % of the time. 

[Myrelle]

So happy to have you back, Aeryn.

 

It IS very difficult to remain engaged when the quality of writing of a series plummets as quickly and drastically as it did on this show. I'm hanging in now because of the Darkness storyline. I hope they will keep Michael in the picture only  as long as Dean is allowed to remain his OTV, and that the writers won't "forget" that by having him possess a lesser vessel as Dean's stand-in again, if he becomes a part of the big fight at the end. I'd rather they just leave him out of it entirely if we're going to be denied JA as Michael yet again.

[AwesomO4000]

Which BTW where is the FB?? Oh maybe Cas is off trying to verify Cain's status and  bring him into help if he's not actually dead

 

Maybe Castiel is going to get the blade? We don't know where he hid it, so maybe wherever that is in the previews is where he hid it?

 

Ugh, I also just had a horrible thought! What if Dean having sex with Amara would allow him to take the Mark again. Maybe Dean has to be one with her to get the Mark so he can kill her.

 

So, I presume then that Dean will have to "the things I do for England" it in your scenario ; ) (James Bond reference.)

 

Still hope the entire Lucifer thing will be dealt with next episode. Bring him in as a faux-solution and then exit him again. He can depart some knowledge on the Darkness. Though, once again, ignoring any Dean-stuff here is ridiculous because it would be prudent to talk to BOTH Lucifer and Michael. Both are archangels, both would have helped defeating the Darkness and thus have relevant knowledge but only one of them is a major liar and manipulator. Both are also in the Cage so the vision of the cage should have pointed to them both. But nope, must only focus on Lucifer. Well, if he gives you bad intel, you only have yourself to blame, folks.

 

I'm strange in that I would likely trust the information I could garner from Lucifer more than Michael. If Michael would even share at all - which I highly doubt. For the most part, Lucifer is correct when he tells Sam that he won't lie to him or at least it is often easy to figure out what the distorted truth is. Lucifer also needs to be liked, and his ego makes him a little easier to manipulate. However from what I've seen on this show, I wouldn't trust Michael as far as I could throw him. Michael pretends like he is doing the "noble" thing while all the time for the most part, he isn't. I disagree that he is not a master manipulator. He just hid behind Zachariah and got Zach to do his dirty work.

 

From seeing how angels and demons operate, I have little doubt that if Michael wanted to save Dean before that first seal broke, he would've been able to do so. But he didn't care. And he obviously could've let the timeline be changed if he so chose, but he didn't, making sure everything would happen just as it had, and that Dean would go to hell anyway. From what I've seen of Michael, humanity to him is mostly an inconvenience. (For example those poor people in the bar when he decided to talk with Zachariah... "oops, my voice killed them" *shrug* "better things to do.") They are in the way of him doing what he thinks he should've done: i.e. defeat Lucifer and bring about "paradise on earth." If that goal happened to involve having to have Dean in hell to break the first seal and allowing Ruby to live so she could get Sam to get Lucifer raised and maybe kill half the population to kill him and doom the rest to unruly angels while making their version of paradise on earth, so be it.

 

Nope, I wouldn't trust Michael at all, especially a pissed off one who's been locked in the cage all this time. Who knows what his motivations would be? I wouldn't trust Lucifer entirely either, but in many ways, I think he'd be more predictable and easier to deal with.

 

My opinion only on that one, I fully admit.

[Aeryn13]

 

From what I've seen of Michael, humanity to him is mostly an inconvenience.

 

He doesn`t have to give a crap about humanity to be anti-Amara. SHE is way more anti-angel than anti-humans so far so Michael`s species has more to fear from her. And he was very dogmatic. On that account alone, I would consider him a way more reliable source than Lucifer on how she was defeated.

 

 

For the most part, Lucifer is correct when he tells Sam that he won't lie to him

 

Which he just recently proved in a fantastic way through the faux visions? I do expect Lucifer to hand over some info. Not sure how trustworthy any of it is gonna be.

If they had continued to beat it out of Metatron - who seemed broken enough to spill the truth at that point with Cas - I would find it more reliable at this point.

 

However, in terms of Michael in general, if they don`t bring him back for Dean, they can leave the character to rot in the nothingness for all I care. The only interest I would have in him is Dean-storyline-related.

[AwesomO4000]

Which he just recently proved in a fantastic way through the faux visions? I do expect Lucifer to hand over some info. Not sure how trustworthy any of it is gonna be.

 

But did Lucifer say or do anything really to promote his visions as from God? I knew they were from Lucifer from the first vision they showed... I think I even said as such in that episode thread (the second episode). I can't help it if Carver's Sam is a moron and thought they were from God. That's not on Lucifer really... he was showing Sam in hell and the cage... where he (Lucifer) is. How much more upfront could he be?

 

If they had continued to beat it out of Metatron - who seemed broken enough to spill the truth at that point with Cas - I would find it more reliable at this point.

 

But Metatron will say anything to save his own skin. That's how they got that whole "the river ends at the source" thing or whatever nonsense that was that Metatron said when they were looking for information about the mark of Cain. Metatron's the biggest liar of them all. I'm trying to think of something important that Metatron has told the truth about so far, and sadly I'm mostly coming up blank. Anything to make his "story" - and his role in it - greater, he'll do it, truth be damned.

[Aeryn13]

 

But Metatron will say anything to save his own skin. That's how they got that whole "the river ends at the source" thing or whatever nonsense that was that Metatron said

 

That`s why I refered to that last scene with Cas specifically. When he finally told the truth about Amara being God`s sister. That scene made it clear that in that moment Metatron had all the snark and lying and subterfuge beaten out of him. So THAT moment would have been the key to press on and ask a follow-up question on how she was defeated. It was ludicrous not to do it right then and there.

 

Now their source for intel is Lucifer and pretty much only Lucifer. Even if Michael and/or Metatron might also lie, the bigger the sample group, the larger the chances of success. Limiting yourself to one egg in the basket is just stupid to me. And the reason for that stupidity is IMO the writers very limited thinking: this is a Sam-plot so only a Sam-character like Lucifer can figure in it. Any other ideas wouldn`t even penetrate their skulls. 

[Triskan]

If they had continued to beat it out of Metatron - who seemed broken enough to spill the truth at that point with Cas - I would find it more reliable at this point.

 

 

I really worry that the whole's fan backlash of Metatron (I must be one of the very few that truly enjoy the character) will force Carver's hand in "dialing him down", and I sure as hell dont wish it ! Gimme more Metatron !

[catrox14]

 

So, I presume then that Dean will have to "the things I do for England" it in your scenario ; ) (James Bond reference.)

 

I totally get you are being facetious, but gods, no.  It could have been an amusing gag if they hadn't already made it clear, to me, that this is a parallel with "bunkbuddies" remarks with Sam and Lucifer and even a bit of Sam and Lilith. And now I think it's pretty clear that Jensen is playing it as being something Dean DOES NOT WANT even if he's largely unable to resist it. I'd like to know what is in his mind when he is able to resist it like he did when he tried to stab her.

 

Of course, I'm fearful that was actually all Amara's doing to try and show Dean that she still has the ultimate power by compelling him to try to kill her and failing so he'll be more likely to acquiesce to her demands/desires seeing that it is all pointless. :(

 

Essentially, Amara is roofie-ing everyone against their will with bliss. She did it to drunk girl and Len and who knows who else. I'll be pretty annoyed if they make any of this a joke now. That said, if they treated it like how Edlund handled the morbid humor between Dean and Alistair in OTHoaP, that could be interesting. But then that was all couched around Dean getting necessary info and doling out some payback and Alistair is killed by the end. Of course, in the process Dean is nearly beaten to death and his psyche was broken when he found out that he started the Apocalpyse. (Ahhh the halcyon days of better written non-con) :( . 

 

The "your girlfriend" line from Crowley was handled well by Sheppard and it was of course Crowley, who wants to fuck with Dean, and it wasn't really 'comedy' per se, IMO.  It was Crowley being a dick because he could.

 

I don't trust Carver or BuckLemming or even Robbie Thompson not make a mockery of it even as I know Jensen can find his own nuance but if everything around it is shit....I dunno. I'm pretty wary right now of this whole thing. 

[AwesomO4000]

I totally get you are being facetious, but gods, no.  It could have been an amusing gag if they hadn't already made it clear, to me, that this is a parallel with "bunkbuddies" remarks with Sam and Lucifer and even a bit of Sam and Lilith. And now I think it's pretty clear that Jensen is playing it as being something Dean DOES NOT WANT even if he's largely unable to resist it.

 

Yes, I was being facetious, but in a way my reference was not... which I know doesn't make sense - and my emoticon was somewhat misleading, so that didn't help - so I'll explain...

 

Actually for it to be a true "The things I do for England" moment, Dean would have to have some agency and choose to sleep with Amara in order to get the mark back... if that is how he could get it back. Because unlike the original "Lie back and think of England" meaning (which in itself is probably a myth), the James Bond meaning was a little different. He did what he had to do in order to gain a benefit for his country. It also wasn't really played as a joke, because you felt bad for Bond and felt his disgust at having to sleep with these evil women. (There were two similar instances that I recall).

 

So I agree with you that I wouldn't want them to make it a joke at all. If they went there - which I hope they don't - I would want to see Dean like James Bond: in other words, I would want to understand his reluctace and sacrifice.

 

As for "On the Head of a Pin," for me there was very little humor there beyond Alastair's wry remarks, which in themselves did not compensate for the horror of the situation. I think Sam expressed my feelings for that episode best. He was disgusted with all of them - Alastair and the angels, Ruby, and even himself. And Sam himself had somewhat of a "The things I do for England" moment in that episode, because he clearly did not want to be drinking Ruby's blood there, and Sam didn't like how she held that power over him. But he felt that he had to in order to get Dean back. And Sam was understandably pissed off at all of them for the situation. His response was actually my favorite part of the episode, because seeing Dean broken was not enjoyable for me. It was heartbreaking. But seeing Sam get angry at the situation was somewhat gratifying, mostly because I agreed with him. By that time in the season, I was pretty annoyed, too... at the angels dicking everybody around and at the unending grimness and ugliness of the season.

[catrox14]

Oh yeah, I understood what you meant. I guess I was saying that I don't trust the show to handle that moment of " for england" with alacrity and that I'm afraid they would/will play it for laughs.

 

It's getting to the point where as much as Jensen can tell a story on his face and in his eyes, I need more of what's in his head and heart. Like some kind of on screen discussion about what's happening to him. 

 

I see a bit of chatter on the interwebz that Dean is LYING to Sam becomes he's just a horndog and wants to have sexy times with Amara and as much as think that's bunk,  I can see how some might get there if they aren't really picking up the nuance in Jensen's performance.  If there is any lying I'm thinking it would come out of Dean not wanting to admit she has this kind of control over him, but given the zoning out and what not, I lean far more towards Dean just not remembering his experiences.

 

I think Amara is a lot more insidious with her "bliss"/roofies.  I think it could go the route that it induces Dean to think that his protectiveness and any potential desire he might have for her is HIS idea.

[MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND]

Oh yeah, I understood what you meant. I guess I was saying that I don't trust the show to handle that moment of " for england" with alacrity and that I'm afraid they would/will play it for laughs.

 

It's getting to the point where as much as Jensen can tell a story on his face and in his eyes, I need more of what's in his head and heart. Like some kind of on screen discussion about what's happening to him. 

 

I see a bit of chatter on the interwebz that Dean is LYING to Sam becomes he's just a horndog and wants to have sexy times with Amara and as much as think that's bunk,  I can see how some might get there if they aren't really picking up the nuance in Jensen's performance.  If there is any lying I'm thinking it would come out of Dean not wanting to admit she has this kind of control over him, but given the zoning out and what not, I lean far more towards Dean just not remembering his experiences.

 

I think Amara is a lot more insidious with her "bliss"/roofies.  I think it could go the route that it induces Dean to think that his protectiveness and any potential desire he might have for her is HIS idea.

I think he hasn't told Sam because he still doesn't understand what's going on.  He thinks she's bad, he thinks he should kill her and he even tries (with her help I think) and then he feels protective of her. How can he explain that he has all these opposite feelings for her? Jensen is playing it so well I can't understand how people think he is sexually attracted to her. He's just confused and has lost his free will, pretty much.

[Demented Daisy]

Here's a link to a translation of a Brazilian magazine interview with Misha.  (Original article is linked in translation.)  Not sure how accurate it is, but I found this most interesting:

 

 

3. Interviewer: Your character has changed a lot through the years. Will we have more changes?

 

Misha: Yes… Yeah… Well… Let me speak slowly so I can think about what I can reveal (laughs). Castiel, in the 11th season, feels like no one really loves him. He’s really bad with himself, and this will make him do a lot of bad decisions, like making a pact with the Devil. This attitude will affect his life forever.

 

 

*sigh*  Not liking the sound of this, but what else is new?

[Omegamom]

Casifer. Oh, Lordy, I've been worried it was headed that way. :-(

(When I wasn't worried that they were just going to kill him off, or let him dribble away.)

Still. It would be an interesting thing for Misha to play Lucifer-in-Cas. The question is: at the end of the arc, would they end up killing Cas to end Lucifer? Or would Cas have to sacrifice himself to lock Lucifer back up, like Sam did in Swan Song?

Argh!

[mertensia]

It's entirely possible that Dean isn't telling all to Sam because he can't - meaning Amara is prohibiting him from doing so.

[Omegamom]

I think she's clouding his mind, and he may not even remember details of his meetings with her, just the overall situation and outcome.

[Demented Daisy]

Casifer. Oh, Lordy, I've been worried it was headed that way. :-(

(When I wasn't worried that they were just going to kill him off, or let him dribble away.)

Still. It would be an interesting thing for Misha to play Lucifer-in-Cas. The question is: at the end of the arc, would they end up killing Cas to end Lucifer? Or would Cas have to sacrifice himself to lock Lucifer back up, like Sam did in Swan Song?

Argh!

 

Would that even be possible?

[Omegamom]

Somewhere else, I read the thought that the Jimmy Novak body Cas is in now was created for him by God, so it might not follow "the rules" laid down for most angel vessels. However...would Cas still be in there? Maybe Cas would have to evacuate to let Lucifer take over? Go back to heaven and leave the empty JN shell behind? Or maybe he'd have to swear to stay in it, with Lucifer, as the JN shell is able to hold a seraph, but probably not an archangel.

In the preview, we see Luci palming Sam's forehead and the glowy glow starting. Perhaps Cas swoops in at this point, offers himself up?

[catrox14]

Long post incoming

 

Misha likes to troll a little bit and sometimes his SL ends up not being what they are played up to be. So maybe it's not quite as dire as he's saying. I find the notion that Cas doesn't feel loved or feels totally alone now doesn't comport with us seeing Dean and Sam looking after him in the bunker and treating him more like family than ever before. Maybe Misha is referring to the loss of Hannah and being really ostracized by the angels in total now or maybe there was an argument between he and Dean that we never saw that informs Misha's comments. It's possible Cas feels he is alone even if he's not because PTSD/depression/anxiety can make one feel that way. Making a deal with the Devil might not mean Lucifer. It could be Crowley, Rowena, Metatron or someone else he would never ally with ordinarily.

 

Now maybe I'm giving the writers way too much credit but I think more and more that the reasons for Cas' noticeable absence from 11.09 will be revealed in 11.10 and he will be crucial. 

 

My current WILD ASS SPEC/HOPE is that Cas is part of a bigger ruse that he, Dean and Sam concocted.

 

I thought it was a little too on the nose that they kept stressing over and over again that whatever was happening could only happen if Sam was completely safe and reminding that neither of them liked the plan. In spite of Sam and Dean's occasional hubris I found it nearly unbelievable that they would let Sam go anywhere near Lucifer without a backup plan or 10, especially when they are allying with Rowena who has proven her duplicity repeatedly,and tried to kill Dean, Crowley, Cas and would gladly kill Sam given the chance. Narratively how many times can the show allow the Winchesters be made fools of by Rowena without a win before the audience stops seeing them as smart and heroic (unless that is the goal for Carver, I sure hope not).

 

So my WILD ASS SPECS of the day

 

--Cas possessed Sam either as a backup plan or to get next to Lucifer. As to why Lucifer wouldn't have figured it out is that Sam is still on top(no, I'm not making a crass joke). Lucifer never touched Sam so he might not have sensed Cas in there somewhere.  realize that doesn't quite match with the promo but just putting it out there as an option.

 

-- I can't see how Lucifer could possess Jimmy!Cas himself since angels require permission to possess a vessel. I'm presuming permission is granted for one specific angel only otherwise angels could just switch vessels all willy nilly. Jimmy is dead and his soul is in heaven so he can't readily give that permission unless  Cas having been the most recent angel to get that permission, can by proxy, give permission to Lucifer.

 

2) Cas gets into Heaven with Lucifer to get Jimmy's permission?

 

If Cas is not currently with Sam, then he's going to need access to the not!Cage to save Sam. Rowena and Crowley will want something to get him there. So Cas could give up the demon tablet to Crowley. Then he and Dean go up against Lucifer to get Sam out of the not!Cage. Cas could give up the demon tablet to get to the ACTUAL cage to get Michael's help. 

 

What of the First Blade. Cain might be in Hell and Cas would want him out to maybe fight too. I would really laugh hard if Cas hid the FB in the Impala or somewhere in the bunker.

 

 

As to Lucifer palming Sam's forehead that seems like a really weird thing for Lucifer to do. He can't take Sam without Sam's permission. I'm thinking he's trying to show Sam something else. To go with my WAG, maybe that's when he figures out that Cas was inside him?

 

Maybe Rowena put a hex on Sam that affects Lucifer when Lucifer touches him and that's the glowy part?

[DittyDotDot]

--Cas possessed Sam either as a backup plan or to get next to Lucifer. As to why Lucifer wouldn't have figured it out is that Sam is still on top(no, I'm not making a crass joke). Lucifer never touched Sam so he might not have sensed Cas in there somewhere.  realize that doesn't quite match with the promo but just putting it out there as an option.

 

Not that the show remembers these things very often, but in the past angels have always been able to see through the meat suits and spot the angel underneath. Demons can do this too, so I would've thought Crowley could spot Cass if he were in Sam. 

 

For a backup plan, that's not a terrible one, though. It's definitely better than no backup plan, which is what I assumed they went in there with to begin with. 

[catrox14]

Not that the show remembers these things very often, but in the past angels have always been able to see through the meat suits and spot the angel underneath. Demons can do this too, so I would've thought Crowley could spot Cass if he were in Sam. 

 

For a backup plan, that's not a terrible one, though. It's definitely better than no backup plan, which is what I assumed they went in there with to begin with. 

 

Oh I didn't remember that at all.  Oh well.  If there was a plan maybe Crowley was in on it with the boys? Or he just didn't say anything to see what happened?

[catrox14]

Jose Manzano ‏@jwmanzano 4m4 minutes ago

After 11 years I finally got a picture with @JensenAckles on set! #SPNFamily

 

 

 

I'm posting this here because I want to know what the heck is up with that background. I swear that looks like like the inside of a boat with the curved wood and bunks.  And it looks like there is a swastika on the side over Jensen's head. Or it's some kind of tiny bunker?   But it's just so weird that it's shaped like it is.

Edited December 19, 2015 by catrox14

[mertensia]

If it's a boat that mean they're in Gibbs's basement.

I'm guessing it's attic support beams.

[catrox14]

If it's a boat that mean they're in Gibbs's basement.

I'm guessing it's attic support beams.

 

What is a Gibb's basement?

 

Ahh...I didn't think about an attic. I never think about attics but that makes sense. 

[mertensia]

Gibbs is Mark Harmon's character on NCIS. He builds a boat in his basement.

[catrox14]

Ahh...thanks!

[Omegamom]

Yeah, it's a swastika. An episode in an attic filled with Nazi memorabilia. Maybe we'll get to see Aaron and his golem again?

One can dream. ;-)

[Demented Daisy]

I see a marlin stabbing a swastika.  That's a naval vessel.  Those are torpedoes.  Look at the back -- those are torpedo tubes.  During World War 2, soldiers, sailors, Airmen, and Marines would paint their call sign or ship's name or pretty much anything on bombs, torpedoes, etc.  It continues to this day.

 

So, is Dean time traveling again?  Or it's an AU in which the Nazis won.  There's already a tv show about that on Amazon, but....

[SueB]

Popping into the Spoiler thread to briefly concur with the Torpedo room theory.

Also, interesting to note Jared/Sam wrapped 1-2 days before Jensen/Dean did based on Twitter tweets. Means Dean is likely alone in that scene. Could be Sam is in a different part of the sub. The whole crew wrapped yesterday as well.

Edited December 19, 2015 by SueB

[catrox14]

I thought about it being a submarine at first but my brain was like why in the hell would Dean be in a submarine! But yeah, DD nailed it.  So why Dean need to go back to WWII? Ooo...could we get Eliot Ness again?  That would be fun!

 

And now I'm thinking about the Angel episode when Angel and Spike on a mission in a submarine back in WWII.  That was unrated episode.

[Aeryn13]

For me the background looks like wood. So I don`t think submarine or time-travelling. More like some weird basement or attic.  

[catrox14]

I was thinking the PT boats ( torpedo boats from WWII) were made out of wood, so I did a little wiki-ing and sure enough those were made of wood. Mahogany and plywood. So I dunno...maybe it's a haunted PT Boat moored somewhere?  Or still time travel?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PT_boat#Construction

 

 

[catrox14]

That's intresting, I think Lucifer is refering to himself metaphorically as being smoke, because while he is in the cage his essence- self is limited and he cannot do much Before he was like "fire", he caused havoc but now because he is in the cage his "fire"' is out and he is smoke.

    I was reading this article and these lines caught my eye:

    "Meanwhile, an ominous warning that the time has come for His return is shown during the promo released for episode 10. The clip shows Castiel (Misha Collins) looking down on his chest, where the words "I am coming" are etched. It appears that God will use the angel to warn the Winchesters that He has heard their please and that He is coming."

   

So God may have heard Sam after all..

    Here's the full article: http://www.christiantoday.com/article/supernatural.season.11.episode.10.spoilers.earth.prepares.for.gods.coming/73948.htm

 

 

 

I'd be really surprised if we saw God as an unequivocal named, confirmed on screen character before the end of the series, as in the very end like the last few episodes. Now if the network gave SPN the word they are not getting a 12th season at this juncture then maybe we see God this season, but so far I've not heard anything about that. Not even any unsubstantiated chatter on Twitter or Tumblr. 

 

As to the message, Cas might believe it's God, but I think he'd be mighty surprised at that considering how disconnected he is from Heaven right now. And if it was Lucifer, not God, sending Sam messages then I tend to think it might not be God sending messages to Cas either. Maybe Michael?

 

The most intriguing part of the promo for me is the shot of the Stull Cemetery sign. I think it's probably just a "Road So Far" previously reminding the audience about how Lucifer and Sam ended up in the Actual!Cage. 

 

But if it is meaningful I was wondering why that might be.

 

-- Dean or Sam are having flashbacks to the fight in Stull Cemetary.

-- Dean and Cas go back to try and find a way back into Hell through the place Sam jumped in.

--Cas goes back on his own to try get Michael out for help thinking the message on his chest if from Michael?

-- Cas has hidden the demon tablet and the First Blade somewhere in Stull Cemetary, which would be kind of awesome

but they surely won't do anything that awesome.

[catrox14]

Huh. Just for the heck of it, I decided to read more about Stull Cemetary because I was trying to think why they would go back there to get back into Hell without the rings.

 

There is a legend that there is a Stairway to Hell somewhere in there. Now there was a church that was actually on the cemetary grounds but he was destroyed several years ago. The scene of Cas with "I am coming" on his chest looks to be in a church and it looks to me like Dean is with him. At least I think that is the back of Dean's head.

 

So now I'm speculating that maybe Dean and Cas DO go to Stull Cemetary to find that Stairway or summon a demon or whatever to that cemetary and that's what Misha is talking about changing Cas forever?

 

 

http://weirdus.com/states/kansas/stories/gateway_to_hell/

[SueB]

Actually, it had occurred to me that it was God vice Crowley who scrawled that on Cas' chest. Here's why:

- Cas is elsewhere, not with Dean or Sam it seems --- What if he went to Mount Horeb (where Moses saw the burning bush) or Mount Sinai (God gave Moses the Ten Commandments).  Those would be good places to look to commune with God.

- "I AM" is what God told Moses his name was at the burning bush

 

I'd be really surprised if we saw God as an unequivocal named, confirmed on screen character before the end of the series, as in the very end like the last few episodes. Now if the network gave SPN the word they are not getting a 12th season at this juncture then maybe we see God this season, but so far I've not heard anything about that. Not even any unsubstantiated chatter on Twitter or Tumblr. 

-  Fan Fiction was either Chuck or God at the end.  MAYBE Chuck's been in hiding but it seems more likely that it was God.  I don't think it's that big of a stretch to see him come back and confront Amara. 

- I don't think he's coming in EP11.10. Just a warning he is coming. 

[catrox14]

Actually, it had occurred to me that it was God vice Crowley who scrawled that on Cas' chest. Here's why:

- Cas is elsewhere, not with Dean or Sam it seems --- What if he went to Mount Horeb (where Moses saw the burning bush) or Mount Sinai (God gave Moses the Ten Commandments).  Those would be good places to look to commune with God.

- "I AM" is what God told Moses his name was at the burning bush

 

-  Fan Fiction was either Chuck or God at the end.  MAYBE Chuck's been in hiding but it seems more likely that it was God.  I don't think it's that big of a stretch to see him come back and confront Amara. 

- I don't think he's coming in EP11.10. Just a warning he is coming. 

 

Chuck was in Fan Fiction true enough, but

 

--I don't want to get into a debate about whether not right now Chuck is God. FOR ME, IN MY OPINION,  the show will HAVE TO make it unequivocal with the words and action and Jeremy Carver the showrunner stating it out loud "Chuck Shurley is God/God is Chuck Shurley," I consider Chuck a prophet and not God. So Chuck's existence on the planet means nothing other than maybe he's writing again. It does bring up a good question can a prophet do it's thing on Earth again?

 

2) I sort of look at Fan Fiction as a one off, not intended to really be part of the overall canon of the show.  But if it is considered as such then we have canon Destiel, the Samulet is back in Dean's hands...other stuff.  I'm not saying that to be wanky but I legitimately don't know how to take Chuck's appearance as anything other than part of the ode to the audience, you know?

 

I suppose it could be argued that if Amara is God's sister then God is already on the show, you know?  I'm truly hoping we find out that Amara is not God's sister at all.