Spoilers With Speculation

[Aeryn13]

At least he apologizes for his episodes, that is something.

I don`t know what`s gonna be that bad, though. We know the brothers get free because press releases of following episodes. We know neither Mary nor Cas dies because, again, press releases and set spoilers. So whatever "bad" happens will be temporary and easily dismissed afterwards.

Maybe viewers are supposed to feel bad for the 6 week incarceration. But the supreme stupidity in getting caught kinda warrants at least that much. Besides, six weeks, pish posh. 

[catrox14]

Spoiler.TV sneak peek

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/12/supernatural-episode-1209-promo.html

[catrox14]

Oh. Mr. Interrogator, those boys have spent 140 years in Literal Hell. They aren't gonna break now.

[goldy]

'Supernatural' boss says a lot has changed while Sam and Dean have been in prison

http://mashable.com/2017/01/26/supernatural-season-12-episode-9-first-blood/?utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Mashable+(Mashable)&utm_cid=Mash-Prod-RSS-Feedburner-All-Partial&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed#XJ7xCg7z5aqm

 

Even Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean Winchester (Jensen Ackles) have to face the legal consequences of their actions from time to time on Supernatural. With the number of laws they break on a daily basis while demon-hunting, the odds are never in their favor: they're bound to get caught once or twice. 

Their latest endeavor was mistaken as an attempted assassination of the President of the United States, so it's no surprise that the Secret Service assumed they were deranged criminals. 

Of course, what the Secret Service didn’t realize was that the POTUS was being possessed by Lucifer, so despite trying to save the world once again, Sam and Dean were labeled as enemies of the state and thrown into a figurative hole so deep that all hope seemed lost.

When Supernatural returns for the second half of Season 12 on Jan. 26, the Winchesters will find out that even though they've been stuck at a government black site feeling the prison blues for six weeks, the world has carried on without them. 

Castiel (Misha Collins), their recently-resurrected mother Mary (Samantha Smith) and even Crowley (Mark Sheppard) have taken on new missions and built new relationships. And underneath everything is the lingering threat of Lucifer's unborn child — conceived while he was possessing the POTUS — growing more and more powerful somewhere out in the world. 

Mashable spoke with Supernatural executive producer Andrew Dabb about Sam and Dean's fight for freedom, Lucifer's progeny and more, including whether or not the longest-running CW series was trying to make any kind of statement with the devil becoming president so soon after one of the most controversial real-life elections this country has ever seen.

Now that Sam and Dean have been arrested by the Secret Service, how long are we going to see them behind bars? Is this something that is going to be a longer story arc or is just the crux of the first episode back from hiatus?

It's the crux of the return episode, but as we learn during the course of that episode, they've been behind bars for quite some time. There's about a six-week time jump before we come back, so we're not going to keep them in prison for multiple episodes. 

But they've been away from the world for a while so that's had a big impact on our guys. They're being treated essentially as terrorists, so it's not just regular prison. They've been isolated, they haven't spoken to anyone, they haven't even spoken to each other. They've been living with their own thoughts, and Sam and Dean... what goes on in their heads is not super sunny, as we know. Our guys have a lot of baggage and trauma to work through. 

What kind of impact does that have on their friends, family and allies, having them essentially disappear from their lives for so long?

Sam and Dean started off as two guys in a cool car killing vampires, but they've evolved into the lynchpin upon which the fate of the cosmos relies, in a lot of ways. Them being off the board creates a power vacuum that people like the British Men of Letters are quick to fill, but it also has ripple effects for Crowley, Castiel, Mary. The world is changing around them but Sam and Dean are stationary. When they do get back into the world, however that happens, they're walking into a world that changed, and our guys will have to adjust to that.

Cas and Crowley spent much of the first half of this season working together to hunt Lucifer, so now that he's gone what is their mission? Is this odd couple still going to be teaming up?

Now that Lucifer's gone, Crowley is very focused on reestablishing Hell and reestablishing his hold on it. Castiel, the disappearance of Sam and Dean spins him out in a lot of ways. Cas has really gotten to taking his cues from Sam and Dean and with them gone, there is a void for Cas. He's asking himself, "What do I do now?" And, "If Sam and Dean were here, what would they do?" This is a Cas who, for a chunk of episodes, is actually functioning like a regular hunter. He's still an angel with powers but now he's out there working regular cases, doing regular case-of-the-week things we've never seen him do before because Sam and Dean are not available. So Cas and Crowley, putting the two of them together on screen is fun and we love to do it, but for the time being they're being pulled in opposite directions. 

Now that Mary has committed to returning to life with the boys, once Sam and Dean get out of prison what is that relationship going to look like?

I love getting to explore the dynamic between Sam, Dean and Mary more. Sam and Dean had this idea that if their mom was around, their lives would be much more nurtured. She'd be a nurturing mother, making them pie and things like that. The Mary we're seeing now is not that character. She grew up a hunter. She grew up the same way that Sam and Dean did. She has her own baggage, drive and agenda. That's allowed us to make her a character who is more dynamic and active. 

How Sam and Dean react to that is both positive and negative, because in the back half of our season, they love that mom is out there side-by-side with them hunting, but they're also desperately worried that something is going to go wrong. And that goes for Mary too. And then Cas becomes almost like a friend for Mary, because Sam and Dean are her sons and she needs someone she can confide in things that she can't tell her sons. Cas is the closest thing to a friend that Mary has had at this point. So we're evolving those mother-son relationships and that friendship even more moving forward.

It took everything they have, including their freedom, but Sam and Dean finally sent Lucifer back to Hell in the winter finale. Is this the end of his arc on the show?

Even when Lucifer has been off the table, even back in Season 4 when he was locked in the cage, he was still orchestrating things. As we learned last season, even when he's in the cage he's not a benign figure. Even if Lucifer is off the table, he's not inactive. Certainly with his son, his child out there, he is not going to take that laying down. As we'll learn shortly in episode 12, there may be some people very loyal to Lucifer who are making a lot of trouble for Kelly [Courtney Ford] and our boys. The point being is his story is not over.

Speaking of that unholy offspring, I'm getting some serious Rosemary's Baby vibes. Lucifer having a child is going to be a huge problem for the world, right?

We're living in a world where, if you look at what certain people on the show consider to be propaganda about the devil's child, he's a bad thing and it's a dangerous thing. But from Kelly's point of view and motivating her choices, yes this is the child of the devil which on the surface seems pretty bad, but it's also her child. Even Lucifer — before the Mark of Cain, before the fall — was a good person. He was the chosen of God. This child is powerful, absolutely. 

Powerful how?

We've mentioned nephilim on our show before. We've met one or two. But we've never really dived headfirst into their mythology. A big part of the second half of our season is about that. We will establish how powerful nephilim are, and how a nephilim born to an archangel is even more powerful. The question is, is this child destined to be a force for evil or is it something to be turned for good? It's like nuclear power – it can blow up a city or it can power a city. What is this child going to do? From Kelly's point of view, the nature vs. nurture debate, she believes that she can steer this child down the correct path. But there are certainly people in our world who we know and love who have other ideas.

Something Supernatural always does well is put a unique spin on old folklore/mythology, like how angels, typically shown as symbols of pure goodness, are actually corporate jerks on the show. What kind of liberties are you going to be taking with the mythology of nephilim?

Usually what happens with the spins we put on our mythology is that mythology in a general sense is already general, so it's hard to put a specific spin on it. When we were talking about angels or demons before they showed up, it was pretty standard biblical stuff. And then when those characters started showing up, it was more about character than it was about mythology. 

At this point, nephilim are still very theoretical. It's not until we meet one or two or Kelly has her child, that's when we'll get into more specifics. But that will happen. It's still evolving for us. It's not something where we'll be throwing curve balls right off the bat. At the beginning at least, we're shooting for the established version being that these are creatures of great power, more powerful than angels, so God [Rob Benedict] himself had to reach down to stop them. God is not really on the board for us at the moment as we know from last season, so if Kelly's child is born, can anything stop it? That's something our boys, Castiel, the British Men of Letters and everyone else, even Crowley, are going to be grappling with.

The timeliness of the episode in which Lucifer becomes POTUS was almost too pointed, given what's happening in the world right now. Were you trying to make any intentional statements with that episode?

I would like to say we could predict the future over here at Supernatural, but unfortunately we can't. That episode was written and filmed long before the presidential election happened. It's not really a commentary on anyone specific although I can certainly get how people could see parallels. It was more a comment on if the devil became president, you know what I mean? [Laughs.] Hell, we've made this in a world where that actually has happened, but we did not see that coming. Let's put it that way.

The British Men of Letters started off this season as antagonists for Sam and Dean, but now they all seem to be on the same side. How is this alliance going to play out moving forward?

It's always been our hope or plan or intent that when we talk about the British Men of Letters, we're talking about an organization of individuals. Every individual has their own thoughts and reactions about Sam and Dean and America and our world. We started off with someone who had a very negative view on Sam and Dean and acted on that. Now we'll get to see someone who is a peacemaker, an academic, who looks at Sam and Dean and respects and admires what they do. There will be more compromise. For Sam and Dean, they respond to that. Suddenly there is someone they can work with and who can maybe even help them win. In the back half of our season we're going to bring some people back and make some big moves that will prove that the British Men of Letters way gets results. 

Have Sam and Dean's earlier issues with the British Men of Letters been put aside permanently? 

Well, the British Men of Letters are much more strict with their views than Sam and Dean, like if you're a monster or have powers or have the potential to be a danger to humanity, you're dead. Sam and Dean obviously have a more nuanced view on that. Everyone wants the world to be safer and rid of monsters but the question is, do the ends justify the means? Sam and Dean will be struggling with that as they get to know and respect the British Men of Letters more and realizing how dark this organization can get. How much darkness can they bear?

Supernatural airs Thursdays at 8 p.m. on The CW.

[SueB]

No shit!  Yikes. 

[Aeryn13]

Quote

When they do get back into the world, however that happens, they're walking into a world that changed, and our guys will have to adjust to that.

The world didn`t change for shit when Lucifer was let out (the first time), when the Leviathans were out, when Eve was out, when the angels fell, when ghosts were trapped in a void, when the Darkness was out. It also didn`t change when Dean was in hell, when Sam was in hell and Dean was with Lisa, when Dean was in Purgatory and Sam was with Amelia. Each of the last two covered roughly a year.

But by God, now that the Winchesters have been gone six measly weeks, they will come back and not know what hit them. Cas and Mary have build entire relationship(s), cats mated with dogs and the sky is now purple. 

I get overdramatizing to build up your storylines but all I could think reading this was "it`s six weeks, get a grip". Nothing will have changed significantly in six weeks. When Mary came back to life, THAT was a changed world for her, this is peanuts. 

And I don`t buy the power vacuum idea either because the BritMOL could have filed in the US anytime they wanted. The country is big and the Winchesters are just two people. Besides, I bet this "changed world" lasts precisely till the next filler episode when everything is back to normal. So, next week.  

Edited January 26, 2017 by Aeryn13

[SueB]

At the J2 Gold panel, Jared was asked about a romantic relationship with the hunter Eileen (Shoshanna Stern) who is apparently scheduled to return this year.  He said "no" and that he doesn't want Sam to have romances.  It just doesn't make sense for the show.  

[MysteryGuest]

Yeah, I can't imagine what major changes can happen in 6 weeks, unless the BMOL start using their magic killing machines and start taking out "good" monsters.  Maybe the sorry from Dabb is because some other fan favorite gets killed.  Maybe Garth and his family get wiped out, or something like that.  Who knows.

I was so relieved to learn that Lucifer isn't really gone...not!  I knew it was too good to hope for, but I wanted to believe.

[Demented Daisy]

3 hours ago, goldy said:

Certainly with his son, his child out there

Whoops?

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

Whoops?

Oh dang. Good catch. Ha!

[DeeDee79]

8 hours ago, goldy said:

As we'll learn shortly in episode 12, there may be some people very loyal to Lucifer who are making a lot of trouble for Kelly [Courtney Ford] and our boys. The point being is his story is not over.

Noooooo!!!!! *sigh* So over Lucifer and his antics. He's been the focus of too much of the 12th season so far and way too much of season 11. :(

Edited January 27, 2017 by DeeDee79

[DeeDee79]

6 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

The world didn`t change for shit when Lucifer was let out (the first time), when the Leviathans were out, when Eve was out, when the angels fell, when ghosts were trapped in a void, when the Darkness was out. It also didn`t change when Dean was in hell, when Sam was in hell and Dean was with Lisa, when Dean was in Purgatory and Sam was with Amelia. Each of the last two covered roughly a year.

But by God, now that the Winchesters have been gone six measly weeks, they will come back and not know what hit them. Cas and Mary have build entire relationship(s), cats mated with dogs and the sky is now purple. 

I get overdramatizing to build up your storylines but all I could think reading this was "it`s six weeks, get a grip". Nothing will have changed significantly in six weeks. When Mary came back to life, THAT was a changed world for her, this is peanuts. 

And I don`t buy the power vacuum idea either because the BritMOL could have filed in the US anytime they wanted. The country is big and the Winchesters are just two people. Besides, I bet this "changed world" lasts precisely till the next filler episode when everything is back to normal. So, next week.  

Word! Sam and Dean have been through the wringer more times than we can count and it's always been another day at the office. The seals breaking and the apocalypse were way more intense than six weeks in the slammer.

[MysteryGuest]

I think with Billie out of the way, it's going to open the door for Death to come back.  We were given hints we'd see him again, and now I think that's a very distinct possibility.  That makes me happy.  Billy was cool, but Death was cooler.

[Demented Daisy]

Stuck in the Middle (With You) press release

Quote

RICHARD SPEIGHT JR. DIRECTS – Mary (guest star Samantha Smith) asks Sam (Jared Padalecki), Dean (Jensen Ackles) and Castiel (Misha Collins) for help on a case she’s working but neglects to mention the British Men of Letters are involved. When Mary is double crossed, everything is revealed. Richard Speight Jr directed the episode written by Davy Perez (#1212). Original airdate 2/16/2107.

[Demented Daisy]

Lily Sunder promo and press release

Edited January 27, 2017 by Demented Daisy
Got the name wrong. I've been reading "Saunders" not "Sunder"

[DittyDotDot]

Is that Krissy's dad (Ian Tracy who previously played Lee Chambers) who is gonna "set things right?"

[Demented Daisy]

You are way too good at this game.

[DittyDotDot]

I've had a lot of practice lately...gotta do something to entertain yourself when the show fails to do it. ;)

ETA: Although this one was an easy one. The guy does the Vancouver-shot show circuit quite a bit.

Edited January 27, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[goldy]

http://ew.com/tv/2017/01/27/spoiler-room-supernatural-scandal-hawaii-five-0/

Is Lucifer definitely back in the cage on Supernatural?? — Sara

At this point, it’s less about where Lucifer is than the fact that he has a child on the way. “In terms of Lucifer: he’s a character that even when he’s back in the cage, he’s been active in our world,” showrunner Andrew Dabb says. “I think the fact that he’s got a kid rolling around out there, he’s not dead. He is still a player in some ways. I think we’re dealing with a world where even if Lucifer is off the table in some ways, his influence will still be felt. In episode 12, we’re introducing a fun extension of our mythology. Some long-forgotten Lucifer lore may come out of the woodwork now that his kid is kind of up for grabs.” Now the question becomes: Who should play him?

[goldy]

SUPERNATURAL Photos: An Old Enemy of Castiel Seeks Some Revenge

http://www.thetvaddict.com/2017/01/27/supernatural-photos-season-12-episode-10-lily-sunder-has-some-regrets/?slide=10

Castiel’s past is going to come back to haunt him in an early February episode of SUPERNATURAL. Alicia Witt guest stars as Lily, a seemingly immortal witch, in “Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets”.

In the episode we learn that over a century ago Castiel and a band of angels murdered Lily’s family. Since then, Lily has been stepping herself in black magic and honing her powers, planning for her revenge. Once Castiel gets wind of what’s happening, he turns to the Winchesters for help in ensuring that Castiel does not become Lily’s latest victim. But did Cas and his squad of angels really murder Lily’s family or is there more to this story?

Browse through photos above for the February 2 episode of SUPERNATURAL airing at 8:00 p.m. ET/PT on The CW.

Promo pics for 1210:

 

Edited January 27, 2017 by goldy

[DittyDotDot]

::snort:: That bench looks over-crowded for a moose, squirrel and angel! ;)

Edited January 27, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[goldy]

Supernatural - Episode 12.12 - Stuck In The Middle (With You) - Press Release

http://www.spoilertv.com/2017/01/supernatural-episode-1212-stuck-in.html

RICHARD SPEIGHT JR. DIRECTS – Mary (guest star Samantha Smith) asks Sam (Jared Padalecki), Dean (Jensen Ackles) and Castiel (Misha Collins) for help on a case she’s working but neglects to mention the British Men of Letters are involved. When Mary is double crossed, everything is revealed. Richard Speight Jr directed the episode written by Davy Perez (#1212). Original airdate 2/16/2107.

[SueB]

4 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

::snort:: That bench looks over-crowded for a moose, squirrel and angel! ;)

 

How much do I LOVE that the three of them are sitting in one tiny bench?  I need the gag reel STAT.  There's literally no way they didn't have some mischief filming that.   

[DittyDotDot]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

How much do I LOVE that the three of them are sitting in one tiny bench?  I need the gag reel STAT.  There's literally no way they didn't have some mischief filming that.   

Especially with Jared on the outside...like flies to his web.

Although, I realize this was a set and there's probably not an actual wall next to Misha, but it amuses me to imagine what could be happening anyway. ;)

[SueB]

2 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

Especially with Jared on the outside...like flies to his web.

Although, I realize this was a set and there's probably not an actual wall next to Misha, but it amuses me to imagine what could be happening anyway. ;)

 

Truth. 

[goldy]

[Demented Daisy]

Prepare to Meet the "Earliest Version of Cas to Date"

[ahrtee]

Since Cas wasn't in Jimmy's body till 2009, will there be someone else playing him as his "earlier version"?

[catrox14]

I could see them swing  plot where Cas' vessel was actually in Jimmy Novak's bloodline like a great, great uncle who happens to be the spitting image of Jimmy Novak.

[goldy]

1 hour ago, Demented Daisy said:

Prepare to Meet the "Earliest Version of Cas to Date"

I can't get excited about this episode. Nothing against Cas, but I'm not that interested in his past.

I am looking forward for episode 11 and 12 though, I'm more into the brothers and/or Mary centric episodes.

[goldy]

According to Jared, they're working with Kathryn Newton (the actress that plays Claire Novak) They're filming episode 16 right now.

Edited January 29, 2017 by goldy

[Aeryn13]

I can`t tell if he means they are actually shooting with her now or a more general they are working with her now (as in, nowadays, not necessarily currently) when she was a child when the show started. It might be the latter.

[goldy]

13 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I can`t tell if he means they are actually shooting with her now or a more general they are working with her now (as in, nowadays, not necessarily currently) when she was a child when the show started. It might be the latter.

Well, he said they're working with her now, so I took at as if he meant that they're actually filming with her right now. It would make sense if they are since we already know that she's going to make an appearance this season and they only have 7 more episodes left to film.

Edited January 29, 2017 by goldy

[Aeryn13]

It could very well be of course but it wouldn`t strike me as weird if he said "we`re working with her now" and just means she is "now" a part of the show. That`s totally how I phrase such things too. That`s why I couldn`t tell just from the wording. On the other hand, I don`t know in which context he brought her up. Her being on the show would of course prompt this.  

[SueB]

So... look at the moment Jared says "cosmic consequences" (0:25-0:29)

Does anyone else see Jensen have a minute reaction? Like... "don't go there"?  I will FREELY admit, I've overstudied Dean's facial expressions.  But I've also seen quite a few of Jensen's and Jared's cons.  After that, Jensen jokes that killing Death had no consequence, they tell a nice BTS story, and then Jared digs a hole again by saying they haven't seen the cosmic consequences yet.  And the word that goes through my mind is... lying.  I think they know.  Now this is just PURE speculation on my part.  But watch the video and tell me if you think Jared is trying a little obfuscation at the end   

Again... it may just me and my ability to overanalyze shit.  Second and third opinions requested.

Edited January 29, 2017 by SueB

[catrox14]

They know what it means. I was 100% correct last season why Jared was spoiling stuff about the MoC and sure enough Sam ended up with the Mark for a hot minute. 

So after that my conspiracy side wonders why Jared is randomly wearing Cas' coat. Is this a hint that  Jared could play Castiel and Misha could play Sam in a body swap thing remembering that Misha and Jared have mentioned those at cons last year. Might Sam let Cas possess him in order to save Cas from the BMoL since angels are supernatural and they probably have it out for Cas for that reason alone? Will Castiel become the new Death/reaper  since he killed a reaper?

Edited January 29, 2017 by catrox14

[Aeryn13]

Wel, since they put that line about cosmic consequences in the show, I`m sure it was a hint of things to come. Is it stupid that killing actual Death did nothing but this does? Yes. But killing Death also obviously wasn`t going to go anywhere. It was just something Carver felt like doing as a little gimmick on the side in a Season Finale.

What will those consequences be? Remains to be seen. I`m not sure about a body swap. The threat was "cosmic consequences" will happen if they break the deal. It didn`t even specify as to who couldn`t break the deal. Technically, neither brother did but Cas did it without their consent. I guess that counts as deal broken regardless but the consequences may not hit Cas specifically but the "world" at large. I think it would be funny if it rained frogs for an hour and everyone was just annoyed.

I think the Cas-cosplay came about in response to what happened at the last Con. They are not blind, they must know parts of fandom exploded again. So this was supposed to be a little curveball. 

Quote

Will Castiel become the new Death/reaper  since he killed a reaper?

I certainly hope not. They didn`t bother to explore this storyline with Dean but Cas kills the B-side and he gets a story out of it? Fuck no. 

[MysteryGuest]

I have to say that the whole "cosmic consequences" threat doesn't move me at all.  In fact, I'm a little bored by the whole concept.  Haven't we had enough of those after 12 seasons?  I thought the plan was to scale things back a bit after the end of last year?  Didn't they talk about that?  About getting back to basics again?   Yet here we are, fully entrenched in another Lucifer love fest, with a spawn on the way, and now more threats of "cosmic consequences".   Enough already.  Have we even had any MOTW episodes yet this season?  If we did, I can't remember them.  

[catrox14]

13 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I have to say that the whole "cosmic consequences" threat doesn't move me at all.  In fact, I'm a little bored by the whole concept.  Haven't we had enough of those after 12 seasons?  I thought the plan was to scale things back a bit after the end of last year?  Didn't they talk about that?  About getting back to basics again?   Yet here we are, fully entrenched in another Lucifer love fest, with a spawn on the way, and now more threats of "cosmic consequences".   Enough already.  Have we even had any MOTW episodes yet this season?  If we did, I can't remember them.  

The Foundry, Asa Fox ep, American Nightmare with Magda sort of counts

[MysteryGuest]

8 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

The Foundry, Asa Fox ep, American Nightmare with Magda sort of counts

I had forgotten about The Foundry, which I would consider to be a MOTW episode.  The other two, I'm not sure about.  I did like the Asa Fox episode, but that was more of a hunter reunion show with just a side of demon, IMO.   So far, I don't think any of the episodes of this season will hold up against the past 11 years.  They have the majority of the season left to prove me wrong, however, and I sincerely hope they do so.  I'm looking forward to the Cas episode and the one where Dean loses his memory.  But I think we would all agree that the writing absolutely needs to improve to make this a winning season.

[ZennyKenny]

The more I think about it, the less sense the first two episodes of the season make. We're being introduced to these new BMoL guys who are taking the friendliest approach possible; using calm logic and reason, and not even retaliating when being insulted to their face by hunters, as seen in this episode.

So what the hell was the point to all that torture from Lady McWhatever & her partner? I mean they aren't even around anymore, and no one else acts like them! I mean sure she might show up later on, who knows. But my point is that was the worst possible way to introduce this whole new world of people to us. The more I think about it the more it irritates me.

[Diane]

This is what tvline said about the actress and character:

Elizabeth Blackmore — who currently plays heretic Valerie on The Vampire Diaries — has landed a major role on fellow  CW drama Supernatural, TVLine has confirmed.

The actress will make her debut as Lady Toni Bevell in an episode airing later this spring and will return on a recurring basis in Season 12, according to E! Online.

Lady Toni is a mysterious visitor from across the pond who has a lot in common with Dean and Sam.

http://tvline.com/2016/04/08/supernatural-casts-elizabeth-blackmore-lady-toni-bevell-season-12/

What is the definition of recurring? At this point that is not what I would call her.  Maybe since her reception was so bad, they changed course.

[SueB]

We also saw reports from the beginning of the season that they would back burner BMoL until the back half.  We JUST saw EP10.  If she's a recurring character, they've paid for some number of episodes, regardless of how many they are using her.  And I don't think they would have used the term 'recurring' for 3.  I think she'll come back as the season starts to unfold.  

I could see the Winchesters being forced to work with her as they find out Ketch is killing.  She was clearly anti-Ketch.  

[Diane]

1 minute ago, SueB said:

We also saw reports from the beginning of the season that they would back burner BMoL until the back half.  We JUST saw EP10.  If she's a recurring character, they've paid for some number of episodes, regardless of how many they are using her.  And I don't think they would have used the term 'recurring' for 3.  I think she'll come back as the season starts to unfold.  

I could see the Winchesters being forced to work with her as they find out Ketch is killing.  She was clearly anti-Ketch.  

Goodness I hope not, I really can not stand the actress.  Was so glad she went off the other show that I watch, then for us to get stuck with her, ugh. You are probably right though.  Oh well, I will watch anyway, just will be a disappointment.

[catrox14]

I don't think she was anti-Ketch as much as she is afraid of him.

IMO, she is no better than Ketch and in a way, worse. He's willing to get his hands really dirty like her Henchbitch who gave Sam a S'mores foot and she did her own torturing. 

OH I have a new spec.  Her and Mr. Ketch had a thing and that's why he says she's excitable and she wants nothing to do with that psychopath.  He's a murderer and shes a torturer. They are a match made in Hell. I bet her kid is his.

[ZennyKenny]

I suppose it makes sense that she would come back later after they've established that her way of doing things and his way of doing things are opposites (within the  BMoL spectrum, I mean). Although I gotta be honest; I don't see Toni in a better light than Ketch. Ketch is a ruthless murderer and I hate that he kills the innocent. However, at least he has a philosophy and sticks to it. He doesn't just go around torturing people like he's got some personal vendetta or something. So I really hope that they don't try to paint her as the good guy alternative to his bad guy. Because, no.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Goodness I hope not, I really can not stand the actress.  Was so glad she went off the other show that I watch, then for us to get stuck with her, ugh. 

Hahaha, I can relate. It was like reading one day "Elizabeth Blackmore leaves TVD" - hooray - and the next "and she gets a recurring role on SPN" - fuck. Seriously, there was not much time between getting my hopes dashed.

So far, we haven`t really even heard about her return. The BMol have been referenced but not her specifically. Hey, maybe scatterbrained Dabb and Singer just lost interest and decided to go with the other BMol characters? One can hope. I think she was definitely set up to play a much larger role in the beginning but that could have changed. It`s not unprecedented, they changed the trajectory of characters like Jo or Amelia or Anna too.

[ZennyKenny]

20 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

OH I have a new spec.  Her and Mr. Ketch had a thing and that's why he says she's excitable and she wants nothing to do with that psychopath.  He's a murderer and shes a torturer. They are a match made in Hell. I bet her kid is his.

Oh I would like that so, so, SOOO much better than it being Sam's child as was originally speculated.

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, ZennyKenny said:

Oh I would like that so, so, SOOO much better than it being Sam's child as was originally speculated.

I was more worried about it being Dean's kid because of the gun that looked a lot like Dean's with the pearl handle and the etchings on the barrel. Like that seemed like a weird thing to focus on. So I'm trying to find any other way for it to not be Dean or Sam's kid. 

Or maybe Ketch is her brother vs her ex and they hate each other . OHHH maybe there is another BMoL that she had a kid with and Ketch killed him and that why she hates him.

[ZennyKenny]

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I was more worried about it being Dean's kid because of the gun that looked a lot like Dean's with the pearl handle and the etchings on the barrel. Like that seemed like a weird thing to focus on. So I'm trying to find any other way for it to not be Dean or Sam's kid. 

Or maybe Ketch is her brother vs her ex and they hate each other . OHHH maybe there is another BMoL that she had a kid with and Ketch killed him and that why she hates him.

It did seem strange to give some focus on her personal life, only to have her disappear. Your theory in the 2nd paragraph makes me wonder if the writers have a larger, more fleshed-out cast of people in the BMoL that they are just taking their time introducing us to.