Spoilers With Speculation

[Myrelle]

I want to see Dean taking out the baddies this season-especially after the complete lack in that regard last season. And I sure as heck don't want to see him have to be rescued by Mary just so he can say "WOW! You're a great hunter, Mom." Blech, Blech, And Double Blech to that. And Boo! Hiss! to any writer that goes there. But it's Dabb, so I'm expecting it and thanking God for the technology that allows us to skip over it. 

[catrox14]

It's not making them incompetent per se but it is making them ineffectual.

I can almost buy it being a ruse because of Dean's reaction to what I think is Mary coming in. He might have told her to stay back whilst he goes to try and get Sam or negotiate his release. Dean might even offer to trade himself for Sam. Maybe Mary comes in blazing and it screws up his plan which IMO would actually be a reasonable scenario because it shows she's still able & willing to hunt but is just not ready to do it yet. It doesn't dumb down Dean and shows she is impulsive to a degree which I think she is as we saw in s4 with her ready to run off and marry John. I'll be upset if he falls for a trap of any kind.

Edited October 1, 2016 by catrox14

[catrox14]

LOOOOOOOL this is hilarious and accurate. Oh fandom is so funny most of the time

[goldy]

11 hours ago, SueB said:

EP12.2 Photos:
http://www.thetvaddict.com/2016/09/30/supernatural-photos-season-12-episode-2-mamma-mia/

Thoughts:

Looks like Dean goes in to get Sam, gets captured, and Mary comes in to the rescue.  While I'd like to think that was planned (they'd let their guard down if they had BOTH Winchesters, not expecting a third), I suspect that this is a little service to Mary to establish her bonafides as a hunter.  Since neither of the boys have anything to prove IMO, I'm okay with it.  The audience may not be so ready to accept Mary as a viable hunter (see conversation upthread), so the show may want to demonstrate her current skillset.  Plus, within the show, she's going to have to be pretty damn good before Dean lets her continue to be on hunts.  So, a demonstration of Mary's talents is probably in order.  My advance condolences to those who can't stand it when Sam and Dean look weak for the sake of a guest star.  

I wonder who is that next to Castiel. The description next to that picture says the actor's name is Adam Fergus and that he will play a character named Mick Davies. I've looked at the actor IMDB page and he's Irish, which lead me to believe he will play one of the British MOL, and since it looks like he's helping Castiel there, I'm guessing that unlike Lady T, he will be one of the less extreme British MOL

[DittyDotDot]

4 minutes ago, goldy said:

I wonder who is that next to Castiel. The description next to that picture says the actor's name is Adam Fergus and that he will play a character named Mick Davies. I've looked at the actor IMDB page and he's Irish, which lead me to believe he will play one of the British MOL, and since it looks like he's helping Castiel there, I'm guessing that unlike Lady T, he will be one of the less extreme British MOL

That's what I was thinking, as well. I bet this guy will tell them the British MoL are not evil as a group and they'll take Lady WhatsHerName and deal with her appropriately. Or something like that.

[catrox14]

Oh see I figured he was either a demon or another angel. LOL

[Demented Daisy]

16 hours ago, SueB said:

Plus, within the show, she's going to have to be pretty damn good before Dean lets her continue to be on hunts.

*cringe*  Rather unfortunate wording there.  Do you think that Dean will try to stop her?  On whose authority?  Now that I think about it, I kind of want to see that discussion.  That could be funny.

"Mom, I can't let you --"

"Let me?  Let me?  Dean, you might be all alpha male hunter with the people you save, but I am your mother and your brother is in danger.  Just try to stop me."  *mom stare*  

Hee!

[MysteryGuest]

I think it's reasonable that Dean's natural instinct would be to protect his mother and "discourage" her from doing anything dangerous.  Not so much not letting her, but not wanting her to go with him to rescue Sam.  I'm also sure that will be nipped in the bud right from the very start.  He does know that she was a hunter as a young woman, and she very nearly kicked his ass on their first meeting, so he knows she can handle herself.  But she's still his mother, and it won't really bother me if he attempts to dissuade her from hunting.  

I'm really trying to muster up some interest in more Lucifer storylines, but it's not working.  I just think he's overstayed his welcome at this point, and I'm ready for something new.  He was much more effective in small doses.

[rue721]

3 hours ago, Demented Daisy said:

*cringe*  Rather unfortunate wording there.  Do you think that Dean will try to stop her?  On whose authority?  Now that I think about it, I kind of want to see that discussion.  That could be funny.

"Mom, I can't let you --"

"Let me?  Let me?  Dean, you might be all alpha male hunter with the people you save, but I am your mother and your brother is in danger.  Just try to stop me."  *mom stare*  

Hee!

LOL Yup, except honestly, all she needs is the *mom stare.*

[SueB]

3 hours ago, Demented Daisy said:

*cringe*  Rather unfortunate wording there.  Do you think that Dean will try to stop her?  On whose authority?  Now that I think about it, I kind of want to see that discussion.  That could be funny.

"Mom, I can't let you --"

"Let me?  Let me?  Dean, you might be all alpha male hunter with the people you save, but I am your mother and your brother is in danger.  Just try to stop me."  *mom stare*  

Hee!

Actually, I meant the unfortunate wording.  Here's why:

- Dean feels responsible because she's in danger due to Amara trying to help HIM

- Dean still is the 'driver' when it comes to many issues.  He is much more collaborative than he used to be but when family is at risk, it would be in character for him to regress. 

- She might be not only a grown woman and his mother, but she's out of step with today's world.  

- She has no resources.  No money, no home, nothing.  She could get there eventually but at the start she is in as bad a shape as Castiel when he turned human.  

Now I DO think she'll Mom stare him down and Dean will lose.  But he's going to try and control shit IMO. 'Chillax about Mom's safety' is not in his blood. 

Edited October 1, 2016 by SueB

[catrox14]

You know, thinking more on this, it's not that  unreasonable for Dean to be concerned about Mary going on a rescue mission given that she is literally just back from the dead. He has no idea what her physical or mental or emotional status will be and IMO he'd be stupid to not think about it, especially now that he switches into "Save Sammy" mode. From a purely practical point of view, he would have a point about her not joining him on this mission given her fresh from the grave or wherever she was state of being.

Even if Dean strongly suggests she stand down it doesn't have to be played as Dean patronizing her by "letting" her do anything. I hope whatever conversation they have centers around her state of being post resurrection instead of just patronizing "protect Mom". But given ep 2 is a Buck Leming episode I'm certain they'll paint Dean as a chauvinistic asshat who must be upbraided by his mother. HAR HAR.

[rue721]

17 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

But given ep 2 is a Buck Leming episode I'm certain they'll paint Dean as a chauvinistic asshat who must be upbraided by his mother. HAR HAR.

Ugh yeah.

It would be normal for Sam and Dean to have trepidations about hunting with Mary for all kinds of reasons. And even though it's disrespectful to tell your mother what she can or can't do, I don't think that that's so appalling, either. But I'm sorry, I think it's out of character for Dean specifically to try to boss his mother. Or to be confrontational with her at all really. Since when is Dean confrontational within the family?

Imo what would be in character for both of them would be to talk about their trepidations *in private.* I can also see either of them telling Mary that they're *worried.* Like, "we don't want you to go because we're scared of losing you." But to boss her? Ugh.

Honestly, my hope overall for the episodes is that they keep Dean's dialogue to a minimum and let Jensen go wild with the face acting LOL. He's good at thinking through how to approach complicated scenarios like this from a character standpoint imo (I'm thinking of how he decided to portray Demon!Dean, which ended up being basically the only cool thing about that storyline) and I trust him with the story so much more than Buck/Leming. So so so much more.

[Demented Daisy]

20 hours ago, SueB said:

Actually, I meant the unfortunate wording.  Here's why:

- Dean feels responsible because she's in danger due to Amara trying to help HIM

- Dean still is the 'driver' when it comes to many issues.  He is much more collaborative than he used to be but when family is at risk, it would be in character for him to regress. 

- She might be not only a grown woman and his mother, but she's out of step with today's world.  

- She has no resources.  No money, no home, nothing.  She could get there eventually but at the start she is in as bad a shape as Castiel when he turned human.

Wait, are you talking about Mary hunting on her own?  I never considered that an option.  I was referring only to Mary joining Dean to save Sam.  Why would she even want to go hunting on her own?

[DittyDotDot]

2 hours ago, Demented Daisy said:

Wait, are you talking about Mary hunting on her own?  I never considered that an option.  I was referring only to Mary joining Dean to save Sam.  Why would she even want to go hunting on her own?

I think @SueB was was just saying Dean--and, IMO Sam--might have the inclination to want to mother their mother at first and, for various reasons, may not want her to join them on hunts. Obviously she's going to join them on hunts, though, so to avoid having that discussion every episode she does join them on a hunt, TPTB are establishing, up-front, Mary's able to hold her own as a hunter instead of being a liability. 

I don't think it's inconceivable Dean might attempt to discourage her from hunting, but I'm not sure he would come out and tell her she couldn't hunt. If he did, I imagine it wouldn't go much better for him than when he's tried that approach with Sam in the past. I'm pretty sure Mary's gonna be wearing pants.

Edited October 2, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[Wynne88]

There is also the consideration that Sam and Dean have hunted together for a very long time, and probably can anticipate each other's moves without needing to talk about it.  You bring a third person into that mix, regardless of who it is, and it's going to upset the balance to some degree.  They've done it before, but usually the two of them are doing their thing while the third person is working solo (like Charlie in Dick's office building trying to flirt with the guard), or it's someone else working with only one of them (Garth and Dean, for example).

[SueB]

Ya'll are making my argument better than I could. If she wants to join them, they have to agree.  She doesn't automatically get to be on the hunts.  

[MysteryGuest]

Well, as much as I think both Sam and Dean might not want her hunting with them out of a desire to protect her, I also don't see them telling her she can't.  I think she's going to pull the "I'm your mother" card right out of the gate, and they're going to begrudgingly deal with her decision.  She was raised to be a hunter, just like they were, so they have that in common.  I think the whole reason they brought her back was so she could hunt with them.  I don't see the writers bothering if she were just going to sit at home in the bunker and be their mom.

[ahrtee]

4 hours ago, SueB said:

Ya'll are making my argument better than I could. If she wants to join them, they have to agree.  She doesn't automatically get to be on the hunts.  

On the other hand, you're saying "if she wants to join them."  I could see her saying, "OK, you don't want to hunt with me?  I'll go myself," and I think they'd back down pretty fast, just to keep an eye on her.  

I wonder if she'll try to contact the remains of the Campbell Clan (if any are left?)  

[rue721]

Oh, Mary will definitely be wearing the pants! I think it's good for the show to establish her bonafides, but mostly to put Sam and Dean (and the viewers') minds at ease that she's not just monster chow. I don't think it needs to be about her "earning" her place with her sons or anything as patronizing (or antagonistic) as that.

Actually, my mom and I have been coworkers before, and in my last job, I was the supervisor for a staff that ended up including a mother and son. Ime, the mother will be more demanding of her kid (and harder on him) than she would be of a regular coworker, and the kid will be on better behavior (and very obedient to his mom) than he would be otherwise. But ime it's a dynamic that actually works pretty well in terms of getting the work done. So I'm really interested in how they could/would form a team.

I doubt the show will go into it in much depth, but I'm interested in how Mary works with each of her sons -- Sam/Mary because they're such strangers, and Dean/Mary because Dean has spent a lot of time working with John.

7 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I think the whole reason they brought her back was so she could hunt with them.  I don't see the writers bothering if she were just going to sit at home in the bunker and be their mom.

The image of her just bored to tears in the bunker made me laugh.

And uh she's technically younger than they are now, isn't she? I think she was 29 or 30 when she died? So even though I fully expect them to have a mother/son kind of relationship, I'm not really thinking that she'll have THAT much to prove in terms of being able to keep up. She's actually a fairly young woman and should still be pretty on her game.

Also, speaking of her being fairly young, I wonder about her social life. I never got the idea that Mary was a huge loner, although we also never met any friends of hers, so...? I'm thinking of her wanting to hang out with some new women she met and who seem cool, or wanting to date. Sam and Dean aren't used to having a regular, reasonably friendly and social person in the family. Oh wow, what if she brings some friends around and Sam or Dean starts falling for one of them. How awkward (and convenient?!) LOL

[Demented Daisy]

Okay, this is what I didn't understand:

On 10/1/2016 at 10:18 AM, SueB said:

- She might be not only a grown woman and his mother, but she's out of step with today's world.  

- She has no resources.  No money, no home, nothing.  She could get there eventually but at the start she is in as bad a shape as Castiel when he turned human.

If she's not hunting solo, why does this matter?  

To the first point, has hunting changed so much in 35 years that she can't hold her own with Sam and Dean?  IIRC, Samuel didn't seem to have any problem with hunting in today's world.  Why should Mary have a problem with it -- if she's with Sam and Dean?

To the second, if she were alone, I could see how this would matter.  If she's with Sam and Dean, what difference does it make that she has "no resources"?  She has the same ones Sam and Dean have!  

How does any of that give Dean the right to "let" Mary hunt?

[catrox14]

I'm far more interested in what being resurrected has done to Mary than whether or not she hunts with Dean and Sam or of her own accord. 

So many questions about her resurrection in my mind.

Did Amara understand what being brought back from the dead might do to her mind and body?  Or how it would affect the boys? Amara can't create life and AFAIK Chuck wasn't involved or the show didn't make it clear. I think he just let it happen.

Does Mary remember where she was after she died and after her ghost body was destroyed. Was she in Heaven, Hell, Purgatory, Limbo, the Empty? 

Did she just cease to exist after her ghost body was burned again? hIf she ceased to exist as Missouri speculated(I think) how did Amara bring her back? Did she rebuild her solely from the pictures she saw and maybe some of Dean's memories? Did she recreate Mary in a way that Amara thought she should be?

Will Mary be of sound mind and body? 

I'll be pissed off if the show spends less time on all of that in favor of contrived angst about Mary hunting. 

[rue721]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I'll be pissed off if the show spends less time on all of that in favor of contrived angst about Mary hunting. 

Those are all fascinating questions @catrox14, but I really doubt they're going to get answered. This show just doesn't seem that interested in building on its mythology in that way. Sam, Dean, Samuel, Cas, and Rowena have all come back from the dead, and it's really never been explored in any depth. They're just back.

The nail in the coffin for me was that they didn't bother going into how Dean became a demon, despite that being a vital plot point for the entirety of S10. And how it was set up was very similar to this "Mary is back!" cliffhanger, too.

I think that, on this show, the mythology is just a way of moving the story/characters from Plot Point A to Plot Point B. I think that we're already at Plot Point B (aka, Mary is back!) and we're going to move forward from there. I don't think the show is going to go back and explain how we got there at the end of last season, because it never really does.

[DittyDotDot]

41 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

To the first point, has hunting changed so much in 35 years that she can't hold her own with Sam and Dean?  IIRC, Samuel didn't seem to have any problem with hunting in today's world.  Why should Mary have a problem with it -- if she's with Sam and Dean?

Actually, I think hunting has changed quite a bit because the world has changed quite a bit. That was kinda showcased well in In The Beginning with Dean asking about the weather charts and if they'd gone on the net and stuff. I think it's actually harder to stay in the shadows as a hunter now than it was back when Mary died. Hell, it's harder than when the show started with the 24-hour news cycle and all the social media. Not to mention the sheer amount of information at their fingertips now, especially compared to Mary's day. I mean, when was the last time they visited a library--other than the one in the bunker--instead of jumping online to research some lore? And, remember when they had visit to county offices to get records, and morgues to see the bodies? Now that I think about it, hunting is less hands-on now than it would've been for Mary.

Other than Samuel having some serious issues with computers, we don't really know if Samuel had any trouble adjusting. By the time we met up with Samuel in S6, he had been back for a year. We never saw what it was like for him at first. I would imagine, it would it wasn't easy to get his legs back. (Heh, see what I did there? ;) )

Anyhoo, I think the thought here is that Mary will have a sort of culture shock to go along with her "I'm alive" shock with the cherry-on-top shock being her 6-month-old and 4-year-old sons are suddenly grown men. If I was her kid, I'd be worried about her getting back out there too, but ultimately that decision would not be mine to make. I imagine the show will probably have the discussion anyway.

Edited October 2, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

25 minutes ago, rue721 said:

I think that, on this show, the mythology is just a way of moving the story/characters from Plot Point A to Plot Point B. I think that we're already at Plot Point B (aka, Mary is back!) and we're going to move forward from there. I don't think the show is going to go back and explain how we got there at the end of last season, because it never really does.

I understand that but Dean and Sam KNOW what coming back from the dead means. As hunters and Dean especially, they should want to understand this. It will make no sense to this viewer if they disregard that. 

We have answers to everyone on your list.

Rowena - She had a protection spell.

Cas - God rebuilt Jimmy's vessel twice.

Dean - Cas healed him AFAIK

Sam -  Saved by Cas without his soul. 

Samuel - unknown. 

But Mary is a new thing. She was incinerated twice.  Literally.  She was brought back by an entity that cannot create life. How? I think her mystery is different and worthy of examination.

Edited October 2, 2016 by catrox14

[rue721]

9 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

But Mary is a new thing. She was incinerated twice.  Literally.  She was brought back by an entity that cannot create life. How? I think her mystery is different and worthy of examination.

I agree that it's WORTHY of it -- but I don't think that we're going to get it.

Eh. My expectations in terms of this show exploring its own lore are pretty tempered.

[MysteryGuest]

I think the only thing they'll address is what the last thing is that Mary remembers.  Whether that's finding Yellow Eyes in Sam's nursery, or saving Sam from the evil spirit in their home years later, is yet to be determined.  I doubt they'll get into the hows of her return.  Amara is God's equal, so I'm going to assume she can do pretty much whatever she wants.  Mary is familiar with the concept of being brought back, since John was brought back.  I'm not sure she'll agonize too much over that part of it.  It would freak me the hell out, but I don't live the lives they live.

Edited October 2, 2016 by MysteryGuest

[catrox14]

I want to know what Dean feels about her coming back. I want him to question it, worry about it. IMO if he just accepts this without question or thought as to the whys and wherefores then that seems pretty OOC to me. Dean questions EVERYTHING and given that Amara messed with his head, mind and soul for 2 years, he better look at this twice.

It seems to me if Amara had the power to give life then she could have given all life back. She could have restored all the people who's bliss she took. What about all that? 

Don't fail me, show.

[MysteryGuest]

Cartrox, I hate to say it, but I think you're going to be disappointed.  I'm sure Dean will be surprised initially, but he'll adapt pretty quickly.  Considering what they've seen and experienced in their lives, I just don't see this as that big of a deal for them, other than they get to actually be with their mother again, which will seem strange in the beginning, I'm sure.  I just don't think the science behind it is something they're going to agonize over.

Edited October 2, 2016 by MysteryGuest

[rue721]

Well, Mary might freak out wondering who made a deal this time ;)

[catrox14]

Just now, rue721 said:

Well, Mary might freak out wondering who made a deal this time ;)

This is a really interesting point. I hadn't considered that Mary would worry about that but it makes perfect sense.  Can you imagine Dean trying to explain to her that well, no, they met God and God's sister? Would she believe it? LOL

[SueB]

3 hours ago, Demented Daisy said:

Okay, this is what I didn't understand:

If she's not hunting solo, why does this matter?  

To the first point, has hunting changed so much in 35 years that she can't hold her own with Sam and Dean?  IIRC, Samuel didn't seem to have any problem with hunting in today's world.  Why should Mary have a problem with it -- if she's with Sam and Dean?

To the second, if she were alone, I could see how this would matter.  If she's with Sam and Dean, what difference does it make that she has "no resources"?  She has the same ones Sam and Dean have!  

How does any of that give Dean the right to "let" Mary hunt?

Driver picks the music?

I'll try again but then I'm giving up because I'm not explaining it very well.  

"If she's not hunting solo, why does this matter?"
That's the big IF.  By what right does she get to get into the car in the first place?  Mom rights?  I don't think so.  If Mary knew NOTHING about hunting, would Sam and Dean take her on hunts?  We even have Cas in one of the previews say "You brought your mother?" It's not the obvious choice for a loved one.  When they were hunting down what happen to Claire's mother, they made Claire and Dean stay back while Sam and Cas went to investigate.  So, the ONLY way she gets in the car is if she has sufficient hunting chops to 1) not be a liability and 2) hold her own.  In the first episode, I can see a reluctant Dean agreeing with her to come along because it's her son.  Once she proves her skills, then Mom gets to go hunting WITH them when she wants.  As arthee suggests, her biggest weapon is to threaten to hunt WITHOUT them.  But Mary doesn't have the right to insist on joining the boys on routine hunts unless she can hold her own.  So that's why I said Dean** "lets" her.  As for the first two episodes, I hope they remember the bunker is not secure anymore.  With the EvilBrit popping in there unasked, that should be obvious ... but I would prefer they make a point of saying they re-established the warding.

The second and third question are based on her not being solo.  And yes, I think she'll learn the ropes quickly.  DittyDotDot explained the challenges (if she was solo) pretty well.

The fourth question I answered in bold above -- she doesn't have the right to get into the car, the boys have to let her.   

Finally, if this WASN'T an important plot point (that Mary is a good hunter) the sneak peek wouldn't have had a couple of minutes devoted to it.  Although the writers assume we know Mary's hunter history, there may be some that think if Mary gets killed on a hunt then Sam and Dean were stupid to take her.  So, in many ways, they are protecting the main characters by making it clear that Mary hunting is logical and okay.  I'm pretty sure that's why we'll have Mary come in guns blazing to 'save the boys' in EP 12.2.  Otherwise, if Mary looks iffy, then we'll blame the boys for taking her with them.  See Charlie as the example.  Charlie CHOSE the hunting life. CHOSE to go after the Book of the Damned (which got her on the Stynes' radar).  She also CHOSE to work with Sam on de-crypting it against Dean's wishes.  But that was not good enough. Dean still blamed Sam for her death.  In fact that was the tipping point for Dean to go Terminator on the Family Styne.  IMO it was terrible to take away Charlie's agency in that fashion (and absolutely needless to kill her, Dean was on the edge already) -- yet the show did that and it seemed perfectly in character for Dean to loose his shit over it.   So, the show will justify Mary being put in danger by proving she is a BadAss Hunter.  Hunting allows for the drama of "what if Mom gets killed again?" This is a real threat with real consequences for a 12 year old show. And they can keep this threat on Mary without her simply being at risk of getting fridged because she's their mother.  More interesting, more agency.  BUT, she has to have her Big Damn Hero moment to sell the plot (IMO).  

 

**And I keep putting it on Dean because:
- If Dean says "NO" and Sam says "YES", Mary is not getting in the car.  Not unless Mary and Sam work on Dean a shit ton.
- If Dean says "NO" and Sam says "NO", Mary is not getting in the car unless she threatens to hunt on her own.
- If Dean says "YES" and Sam says "NO". Mary is probably still getting in the car.  Sam is more likely to follow Dean's lead because he JUST DOES.  Of course much dialog will happen and Dean will convince Sam to be okay with it.  But the conversation is much shorter if Dean is the one saying "NO" then if Sam is.  Because Dean does a great deal of the group decision making. When Dean was suffering with the Mark, he definitely followed Sam's lead more.  And in S11 they had a lot more parity.  But when push comes to shove, Dean's usually the one driving the path forward.  As Mark Sheppard once pointed out to me, Dean is the Leader (in response to my question "Why is Crowley interested in Dean?").  He's the one everyone looks to. They all defied him in S10 and that got the Darkness released.  As I'm sure Awesome can point out, the show codes it as Dean is "right" almost all the time.  Of course removing the Mark worked out well eventually, except for the few thousand who died from her fart cloud or got their souls eaten. 
- If Dean says "YES" and Sam says "YES", Mary's in the car.

Edited October 3, 2016 by SueB

[Demented Daisy]

I'm going to have to agree to disagree with pretty much everything that has been said about Mary's "rights" as a hunter.  

[SueB]

22 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

I'm going to have to agree to disagree with pretty much everything that has been said about Mary's "rights" as a hunter.  

I didn't say she doesn't have a right to be a hunter -- that's her business.  Just that there's a difference between being a hunter and agreeing to let someone hunt with you.  

[DittyDotDot]

Guys, I just amused myself greatly by realizing Mary is a revenant. Which reminded me of Demian's recaps from S3. I think I might have to go re-read a few of them now.

Anyhoo, Mary is, in essence, a zombie. Now that's a serious reason not to let her in the car! Wonder if she'll be craving brains? ;)

[catrox14]

IMO, it's Dean's prerogative to not have anyone else hunt with him if he doesn't want them too. Same for Sam.  If he doesn't want them in his car he can tell them to stand down. It's not Sam's car, it's not Mary's car, unless the title is still in John or Mary's name but it is Dean's car at this point.

If Mary threatens to hunt on her own to manipulate them, IMO that doesn't look good on Mary. In order for them to push Mary to that kind of manuever then they have to turn Dean into an unreasonable asshole. I won't say they won't do that to push whatever they have in mind for Mary, but this viewer will end up resenting Mary rather than being annoyed with Dean.  I would not look favorably on Mary if she did that.

I would be impressed if the show had Dean actually call her bluff and  say "Okay, you wanna hunt, here's a car from the vault, money, weapons, two cell phones, a laptop, fake IDs". To me, it's not a personal affront to Mary as Mother for him to push back if her presence on a hunt makes all of them more vulnerable.

4 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Guys, I just amused myself greatly by realizing Mary is a revenant. Which reminded me of Demian's recaps from S3. I think I might have to go re-read a few of them now.

Anyhoo, Mary is, in essence, a zombie. Now that's a serious reason not to let her in the car! Wonder if she'll be craving brains? ;)

This goes to all the questions I was asking about her state of being and why IMO it is reasonable for Dean to be concerned about her. YMMV

[SueB]

So... now you have me wondering... will Dean go thru the tests? Silver, Holy Water, Borax?  Or does he just assume that since God's sister gave him a gift, it's legit?  

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, SueB said:

So... now you have me wondering... will Dean go thru the tests? Silver, Holy Water, Borax?  Or does he just assume that since God's sister gave him a gift, it's legit?  

IMO, it would be quite out of character for Dean to not test her. If he just trusts Amara who fucked with him, hurt Castiel's vessel to get at Lucifer and mind controlled Dean....well, then, color me nonplussed.

[catrox14]

Wait, wait, wait! Abaddon is back??? From Ruth Connell's Tumblr page

Aw I just got sent this love from set ❤️❤️❤️ thank you @alainahuffman @realmarksheppard @creasser ❤️❤️❤️ #madeagirlfeelspecial

[Diane]

Well crap I don't want Abaddon back.

[SueB]

Oh I hope there's something! Maybe a flashback? I loved Abaddon. 

[catrox14]

She's not sporting her flaming red hair.  I wonder if she's playing Abaddon,  Josie or a doppelganger.   This raises the ongoing question for me of what happens to demons when they are killed, like really most sincerely dead. 

Also, she was killed by the First Blade so if she's back and it's not a flashback, then that opens the door for Cain to come back too. Hmmmmm

[DittyDotDot]

Oh, I loved Abaddon and I love Alaina Huffman, but based on the lack of red hair, I'm wondering if she's just visiting set? It does seem like they get a lot of people dropping by just to say hi and hang out with the cast and crew.

Although, she was a Knight of Hell and they're seemingly delving into Lucifer more, so flashback isn't out of the range of possibilities. Maybe we can get Cain back for a flashback too? That would be cool.

[ahrtee]

23 hours ago, SueB said:

As for the first two episodes, I hope they remember the bunker is not secure anymore.  With the EvilBrit popping in there unasked, that should be obvious ... but I would prefer they make a point of saying they re-established the warding.

 

Just a minor point...warding wouldn't keep out EvilBrit (she's human).  Besides, she had a key.  (They showed it on the floor at the end of 11.23).  Maybe they need to change all the locks?  (Probably a good idea, considering how many people/beings have been in there, warding or not.  And you can't tell me Cas (and Kevin, when he was around, and Gadreel, who came in by himself at the end of s.10, and obviously Sam) didn't have their own keys...)

[Demented Daisy]

3 hours ago, Diane said:

Well crap I don't want Abaddon back.

Same here.  Merciful Chuck, I hate that storyline.  The only "good" thing to come out of the Mark of Cain was Abbadon's death.  If she's not dead?  The storyline becomes even more pointless.

ETA  Maybe she'll be part of the Gavin story/flashback.  Someone said they were going to address Gavin, right?

Edited October 3, 2016 by Demented Daisy

[SueB]

Excellent point -- I bet it's about Gavin.

[catrox14]

It's the lack of red hair that makes me think it's not a flashback about Gavin.

[Demented Daisy]

Couldn't she wear a wig?

[DittyDotDot]

Oh, definitely, but for some reason I was thinking she didn't. But, a wig would work.

However, Gavin makes a certain amount of sense. It could be they're replaying--or filling in--some of the stuff of Gavin and Abaddon together before they met up with Crowley? I'd be really surprised if Abaddon was actually alive. But, maybe that even makes a certain amount of sense? Could be that Amara fucked up when she brought back Mary and brought other things back with her? I hope not--what's dead, should stay dead, IMO--but since that doesn't seem to be the opinion of the show, it's a possibility, too.

[goldy]

Not sure who this woman is, but looking at her twitter page it looks like she's been to the Supernatural set many times. This is what she posted today:

 

Edited October 4, 2016 by goldy

[Diane]

7 minutes ago, goldy said:

Not sure who this woman is, but looking at her twitter page it looks like she's been to the Supernatural set many times. This is what she posted today:

 

She is a writer from Tulsa, OK where I live.  She wrote the Outsiders when she was in high school.  She also wrote Tex, Rumble Fish and That Was Then, This is Now.  I think she is just a big fan.