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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575--Misha tweeted a link to a short promo for SPN, dressed as a Western outlaw. GISHDrone responded with a joke about not taking him for a guy who swallowed. The joke has to do with spit vs. swallow; SueB didn't get it, thus the "slow table".

Oh, ok. Not related to the link Catrox posted.

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

So if the baby is Amara (The Darkness), why does she (SPOILER FROM PROMO FOR E02!) eat souls? Souls weren't around prior to creation, which is when The Ol' Darkaroo was imprisoned.

 

This is from a bit back, but I'm assuming the soul eating is Amara powering up--like Cass did when he gobbled up the souls in Purgatory--it could be that it's not the only way for Bob to get power, but possibly the fastest and easiest one available now? Also, it might be an instance of one creating the means of their own destruction while trying to find their own salvation?

Oh, ok. Not related to the link Catrox posted.

 

If you mean the link to Misha's western promo, then yes. Misha spits in that spot and Jensen sent him a tweet saying he didn't think he was a spitter...

 

See catrox's response about spitting vs swallowing.

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catrox14

catrox14

Okay just to clarify.

 

@GISHdrone is an account created for promoting the GISHWHES and Random Acts that Misha and Jensen are involved with.

 

I, and most people that follow that account are 99.99999% sure it's Jensen actually doing the tweeting from the account.

 

Misha created the little cowboy video as part of a contest for Random Acts that @GISHdrone was promoting.

Misha was also using that video as way to pimp last night's episode.

 

In the video, Misha spits and @GISHdrone replies with a naughty answer alluding to spitting vs swallowing.

 

Does that clarify? LOL sorry if I confused anyone.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

 

I'm saying that there is something peculiar in their performances of Sam and Dean that they are pinging off to me.  I'm attributing it to purposeful choices that I think will be explained eventually.

 

Then that would feel very random to me because I find nothing different or peculiar about their performances. So any AU or such reveal would come complete out of nowhere in my eyes. 

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mertensia

mertensia

It seems to me that Dean is acting as if he is in a little bit of shock; I wonder if it isn't that he has the void of the Mark's influence. Because suddenly that maddening urge to kill is gone.

Sam's been a little preoccupied with the virus and trying to save himself to be quite himself. I'm sure meeting Billie didn't help any.

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Omegamom

Omegamom

Ahah! Metadouche and the Demon Tablet will come in handy, finding a way to bust out/communicate with the guys in the Cage. So after Cas heals up (and we get some warm fuzzies), he'll starting hunting Metadouche, and then...then we get mid-season finale, and whatinhell are they gonna do for the second half of the season???

And I really do think there's no twisty-turny mixed-up personalities, just Dean and Sam sort of dazed and confused by this new Evul Out Of Time, aka Bob. Remember, Sam's been running on empty for months now, trying to save Dean from the MoC, and Dean's been fighting off homicidal urges for all those months, and they've only been dealing with Bob for one day so far. When you've been fully focused on something for months, and it's suddenly done/complete/over with, there's a feeling of emptiness, a "now what?!?" feeling. Takes a while to get your bearings after that.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Ahah! Metadouche and the Demon Tablet will come in handy, finding a way to bust out/communicate with the guys in the Cage. So after Cas heals up (and we get some warm fuzzies), he'll starting hunting Metadouche, and then...then we get mid-season finale, and whatinhell are they gonna do for the second half of the season???

And I really do think there's no twisty-turny mixed-up personalities, just Dean and Sam sort of dazed and confused by this new Evul Out Of Time, aka Bob. Remember, Sam's been running on empty for months now, trying to save Dean from the MoC, and Dean's been fighting off homicidal urges for all those months, and they've only been dealing with Bob for one day so far. When you've been fully focused on something for months, and it's suddenly done/complete/over with, there's a feeling of emptiness, a "now what?!?" feeling. Takes a while to get your bearings after that.

Oh definitely they are dealing with something new. But they've dealt with bigger and IMO scarier things  throughout the show. And in those cases I didn't find them particularly different except for demon! Dean, Lucifer and or Meg!Sam which were clearly meant to be different. Soulless!Sam was off in subtle ways that took us a few episodes to discover that he was other-ish. 

 

To me at the end of Brothers Keeper when Dean no longer had the Mark, right away Dean seemed like regular_ish!dean with a side of WTF is happening.  Sam too. I thought okay Sam is trying to make sure Dean is okay. I felt their connectedness in spite of their disagreement.

 

Dean felt like Dean to me when he was with the Darkness. Then when Sam found him in the flower fields it felt off from that point forward. That's just my perception. I'm not trying to convince anyone to see it my way.

 

Eh, who knows.  I'm probably hanging on to the hope that is not as it seems because I was feeling disappointment at how it was progressing. That what seems to be another round of character /canon/continuity destruction isn't actually that. Of course that's what I said during 9.1. Heh. Look how that turned out. Oy!

For those that thought Dean saying untenable was weird and he would never do that, I'm curious why do you think they put that word in his mouth?

Edited by catrox14
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catrox14

catrox14

Then that would feel very random to me because I find nothing different or peculiar about their performances. So any AU or such reveal would come complete out of nowhere in my eyes. 

 

 

Aside from my WAG about a French Mistake kind of thing, I think they actually do have  a decent setup for altered states type of thing with the introduction of something that existed before God and Death and was so powerful and frightening that God and the archangels went to war against and locked it away. What other effects could it have on humanity?

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

 

I think they actually do have  a decent setup for altered states type of thing with the introduction of something that existed before God and Death and was so powerful and frightening that God and the archangels went to war against and locked it away. What other effects could it have on humanity?

 

I wouldn`t have had a problem with it as a consequence if the narrative had gone there. But I see nothing in the show right now that make me believe in such a set-up. Neither Dean nor Sam nor the world of Supernatural seem off to me in even the slightest ways. So IF they suddenly pulled a "and they are in a different universe" reveal or anything like this, I would find it completely random and without any hints or build-up.

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ZennyKenny

ZennyKenny

To me it just seems like Dean is trying to be regular "saving people, hunting things" Dean. You know, with the attitude that's The Darkness is evil and they have to get rid of it. However, he is thrown for a loop because he subconsciously feels protective of The Darkness due to their connection. Ex: immediately getting hostile towards Crowley when he threatened the baby. So he's got these conflicting attitudes. Like in his head he's going "kill the darkness, no protect her, no I said kill dammit!"

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Mick Lady

Mick Lady

Oh definitely they are dealing with something new. But they've dealt with bigger and IMO scarier things  throughout the show. And in those cases I didn't find them particularly different except for demon! Dean, Lucifer and or Meg!Sam which were clearly meant to be different. Soulless!Sam was off in subtle ways that took us a few episodes to discover that he was other-ish. 

 

To me at the end of Brothers Keeper when Dean no longer had the Mark, right away Dean seemed like regular_ish!dean with a side of WTF is happening.  Sam too. I thought okay Sam is trying to make sure Dean is okay. I felt their connectedness in spite of their disagreement.

 

Dean felt like Dean to me when he was with the Darkness. Then when Sam found him in the flower fields it felt off from that point forward. That's just my perception. I'm not trying to convince anyone to see it my way.

 

Eh, who knows.  I'm probably hanging on to the hope that is not as it seems because I was feeling disappointment at how it was progressing. That what seems to be another round of character /canon/continuity destruction isn't actually that. Of course that's what I said during 9.1. Heh. Look how that turned out. Oy!

For those that thought Dean saying untenable was weird and he would never do that, I'm curious why do you think they put that word in his mouth?

 

"Untenable" just seemed weird to me.  When Sam corrected Dean with "conjoined twins" as opposed to "Siamese twins" Dean said "That's why you never get laid"

 

But as you said before, maybe I'm selling Dean short. I just wish I know why the boys seem so "off" to me.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

If you mean the link to Misha's western promo, then yes. Misha spits in that spot and Jensen sent him a tweet saying he didn't think he was a spitter...

See catrox's response about spitting vs swallowing.

No, I was talking about the link to all the BTS pictures of Jensen directing an episode. He/she commented that he/she didn't like the looks of it.
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GirlyGeek

GirlyGeek

You know, not to beat a dead horse or anything, but I can kinda see Dean as being "off", too.  I'm not real good with Sam's characterization, so he always seems off & inscrutable to me from one ep to the next, but my thought on Dean's being a little off is this:  Jensen hasn't played Dean as actual Dean for almost 2 seasons (the mark, the blade, demon dean, the mark/blade again, etc) and we, in turn, haven't seen Dean in a good long while.  In canon, that means Dean hasn't felt like himself, been himself, for a loonnggg time... so either from an actor/writer perspective OR from a character perspective, its no wonder he might seem 'off'.

 

Either its intentional and Jensen is playing Dean as trying to figure out who he is/remember who he is w/o the blade and mark, or I'm just having a hard time because Dean isn't the Dean I've seen since, well Purgatory practically, and I'm having to reconcile that. Or both  ;)

Aside from that, Dean in a suit... yum!

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SueB

SueB

  • Author

Pretty clear to me, Dean just had another "premonition" before that scene started. TELL THEM DAMMIT.

 

And Sam... hinting God is closer...as God (or SOMEONE) gave him a full metal jacket Cage-vision last week.  

 

At least they gave Cas a blankey.  

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

 

Pretty clear to me, Dean just had another "premonition" before that scene started. TELL THEM DAMMIT.

 

I noticed in the last episode that Dean's face had almost the same entranced expression as when was experiencing the affects of the Mark and the Blade when he was looking at the baby and in that clip. It's that look where Dean is "elsewhere".

 

Considering he already told Sam he saw her all grown up outside of the car and that she saved him he really has no compelling reason to not tell him other things.  I'm thinking he might not really consciously remember these flashes and that he isn't actually lying to Sam.

 

Which ties into my ongoing thinking about the flowers.  I've seen spec that the flowers can induce hallucinations.  I've also read spec that it's very similar to Dorothy waking up in the bed of flowers in Oz.  I guess I'm thinking something else happened to Dean between The Darkness "saving" him and him waking up in that field of flowers.

Edited by catrox14
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7kstar

7kstar

I can see if they aren't going with Dean's having flashes of memories, he could be zoning out and not really realizing it.  I've done it while teaching and student's have brought me back and I didn't know what I was thinking about...lol

 

Now Dean has some memories you know he hasn't shared.  Sure he's said some things but he is still keeping quiet.

 

The color of the flowers did make me wonder.  They were so bright.  Not a natural bright.  So I do think they may point back to something...However this is Carver we're talking about.  The man that drives us insane with ignoring really potential story-lines and jumping into nonsense and trying to make it sound like it was the next logical step after-all.

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catrox14

catrox14

 

Now Dean has some memories you know he hasn't shared.  Sure he's said some things but he is still keeping quiet.

 

 

He doesn't have a reason to keep them quiet that we know of, yet.  Maybe he can't quite articulate what's going on.  I dunno. Sam apparently never told him at all about his visions that we know of. It's squirelly.  Maybe neither can really remember all that we saw them remember?

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Mick Lady

Mick Lady

Pretty clear to me, Dean just had another "premonition" before that scene started. TELL THEM DAMMIT.

 

And Sam... hinting God is closer...as God (or SOMEONE) gave him a full metal jacket Cage-vision last week.  

 

At least they gave Cas a blankey.  

 

Alright, this made me laugh! Years ago, Mick bought me a blanket to use on the couch. I have several pillows and lean back on the arm, stretch out, cover myself with the blanket and watch TV. Taarna, our "orange" lab started calling it my Blankey! So that's what we call it now!

 

And yes, she talks. A Lot. None of you can say a damn thing, because I know you!

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Ahhh, this is just too cute! I have a kink for director!Jensen. He just seems so in his element. It makes me worry that he'll just go behind the camera after SPN and that would just be a crime to acting. Even if it makes him happy, I'll be sad. Yes I'm selfish! LOL

tumblr_nwj3jnP6Yf1sjxysio1_500.jpg

Edited by catrox14
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catrox14

catrox14

Episode Titles through ep 12.

 

    11.01 - Out of the Darkness, Into the Fire
    11.02 - Form and Void
    11.03 - The Bad Seed

    11.04 - Baby
    11.05 - Thin Lizzie
    11.06 - Our Little World
    11.07 - Plush
    11.08 - Just My Imagination
    11.09 - O Brother Where Are Thou?
    11.10 - The Devil in the Details
    11.11 - The Sound of Silence
    11.12 - Don’t You Forget About Me

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

(edited)

Bad Seed promos

 

From the CHCH promo:

 

So the woman Dean talked to and Amara aren't the same entity?  I suppose it's possible she's talking to herself in the mirror, but then why say "we"?  Maybe it'll make more sense in context.

 

"We are mightier than God."  -- He has to show up at some point to refute this, right?  But it's also confusing.  We know that God and Death -- well, I'm not sure how to word it, but Death said they can't remember who is older.  TD knows who God is (makes sense), but not Death.

 

I'll take it as more evidence that Death existed at the time, but didn't join the fight.  

Edited by Demented Daisy
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catrox14

catrox14

If we have wibbley wobbley timey wimey.. Stuff happening then that could be her future self talking to her past self hence the "we". She may be guiding her earlier time line self to get her to the grown up Amara that we see Dean talking to in the Darkness Cloud. I'm also wondering if the Darkness Cloud and the Empty are the same thing and if that is where Death said he could send Dean when he had The Mark in Brothers Keeper.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

There is a producer`s preview out for episode 3 - sorry, don`t have the link handy right now - where Carver flat-out says "the darkness is now a 6-year-old girl". So, IMO it has always been as straightforward and simplistic as it seemed: Amara = Darkness taking form

 

Also, going by the summary for the Lizzie Borden ep, Amara is in it, posing as "Lizzie". Say that makes her 13/14-ish. We have pictures from the episode 6 shooting with a very young woman sporting the Mark of Cain. Apparently Amara at 19/20-ish. It might take till the mid-Season Finale to catch her up to the form of Emily Swallows.

 

Oh, and Crowley will take a few episodes to try and win her over and fail. For Carver, that`s a crapton of spoiling. Usually, he says nothing. 

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Omegamom

Omegamom

Well, it was sort of a given that Crowley won't win Amara/TD over. He's constantly scheming and trying to get still more power, somehow, some way, and it almost always goes badly. My guess is that evil knows evil and can't be conned that way.

And, yes, a "wee sing-along"--guffaw! And the boys saying "NO!" in chorus.

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

Because I have to: Series Co-Lead Killed Off.

 

Do I think it's SPN?  No, not really.  But:

 

Details are super sketchy, but rumor has it the fatal twist is set to occur in this hour-long show’s forthcoming fall finale. Meanwhile, there are conflicting accounts as to whether the death will actually stick. Given the importance this particular character has to the series, it’s tough to imagine that it would.

 

 

Exactly.  TPTB are terrible with this.  How often have they killed people just to bring them back?

 

Not to mention, Carver loves shock for the sake of shock.  

 

I'll refrain from mentioning some of those episode titles....  ;-)

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

I doubt it's SPN unless Jared or Jensen wants out.   It would be a stretch but some might consider Misha or Mark co-leads at this point and they are both fan favorites so maybe one of them but I doubt it. 

 

The only thing that makes me have even a hint that it would be SPN is the "super sketchy" reference, which could be a hint at Supernatural or just a show with supernatural elements like Sleepy Hollow or even Arrow at this point.

Edited by catrox14
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

I don`t think a "death" on SPN would be even worth such a blind item because the idea of if sticking is so ridiculous. If it`s a CW show at all, Vampire Diaries is a contender IMO. But I think it refers to a show on the big four networks. 

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Okay this shouldn't bother me but this bothers me. 

 

emily swallow Verified account ‏@bigEswallz

Dean's a bit distracted-who's on his mind? See tonight! #justacrush #TheDarkness @cw_spn @jensenackles #supernatural

 

 

Emphasis mine. The '#justacrush part left me going "rurhhhhrrr?" 

 

Now, I'm pretty sure this was all meant in fun towards Jensen but I have to admit that there is a tiny little part of me that is worried it's  referring to romantic relationship between Amara and Dean.  And I just really do not want that at all. 

Edited by catrox14
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7kstar

7kstar

So what other shows have situations where death might not "stick"? It's a pretty standard thing for Supernatural.

Aside from soaps, that is. Or "it was all a dream" tropes.

Many are saying Castle...it could happen...however I don't even have a cringe if it was SPN.  What does that say.  How about it is beyond stupid for this show.

 

Okay this shouldn't bother me but this bothers me. 

 

 

Emphasis mine. The '#justacrush part left me going "rurhhhhrrr?" 

 

Now, I'm pretty sure this was all meant in fun towards Jensen but I have to admit that there is a tiny little part of me that is worried it's  referring to romantic relationship between Amara and Dean.  And I just really do not want that at all. 

Well, if TPTB want a love interest...this could be the way.  But don't worry, none have stuck...so it would just seal a death sentence.  lol

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catrox14

catrox14

 

Well, if TPTB want a love interest...this could be the way.  But don't worry, none have stuck...so it would just seal a death sentence.  lol

 

It's not the love interest per se, it's the fact that Dean knows her as a baby and now a little girl and that's just some Twilight level of creep that makes it all ewww for me.

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Mick Lady

Mick Lady

There is a producer`s preview out for episode 3 - sorry, don`t have the link handy right now - where Carver flat-out says "the darkness is now a 6-year-old girl". So, IMO it has always been as straightforward and simplistic as it seemed: Amara = Darkness taking form

 

Also, going by the summary for the Lizzie Borden ep, Amara is in it, posing as "Lizzie". Say that makes her 13/14-ish. We have pictures from the episode 6 shooting with a very young woman sporting the Mark of Cain. Apparently Amara at 19/20-ish. It might take till the mid-Season Finale to catch her up to the form of Emily Swallows.

 

Oh, and Crowley will take a few episodes to try and win her over and fail. For Carver, that`s a crapton of spoiling. Usually, he says nothing. 

 

Thanks! I didn't know there was a Lizzie Borden episode. I love that story, and even went to the Borden house when I was at school in Mass.

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Omegamom

Omegamom

So, unless they twist things around suddenly at mid-season, it appears that the show/writers/etc. have a definite arc in mind for the show this season, and they're pushing it. We've had references to the Cage/Lucifer/Michael in three episodes. Some folks think the "Fortune Nookie" was a hint at Gabriel. Amara is growing, and Crowley is already hesitant about her. Metatron has been mentioned multiple times.

It's interesting. A definite change in style--the last few seasons haven't felt like there was a cohesive season-long story (though S10 had definite hints, up through mid-season, which totally got tossed out the window, which is why I hedge my bets up above.).

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