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turnitwayup

By turnitwayup
in Castle [V]

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AntiBeeSpray

AntiBeeSpray

I wonder if being (for the most part) a "serious" procedural versus a "light" procedural correlates to good strong characterization or not. Because the NCIS descriptor, to me, also applied to those on the L&O franchise's three shows. The characters stayed consistent. Maybe it is easier since, on those types of shows, the focus is mainly on the case with character on the periphery (and thus not overloaded with skills and info, so easier to keep straight?).

 

The forerunner '80s "light" shows, Remington Steele, Moonlighting, and Scarecrow & Mrs. King seemed to be able to handle both characters and case well.

 

Alas, it seems like a "one or the other" landscape now.

 

Exactly. And it's a real shame. Closest we have to that now is Bones.

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WendyCR72
WendyCR72

Let me introduce you to How I Met Your Mother...

Sara2009
Sara2009

Tbh, this drama is more interesting than the show has been in quite some time.

oberon55
oberon55

This is completely true. But at the same time I watch TV for escape. I watch all kinds of shows & have different expectations depending on the show. When I watch gritty shows like Breaking Bad or

Chado

Chado

Well Vikram cant be that bad if he is still around to help with the case

Angry Rick. Hmmm...why doesnt this instill hopeful vibes?? Lol

He can still be bad, it could be that Beckett is completely clueless to it, or has faith/trust in Vikram over what others are telling her.

 

I hope angry Castle is here for the rest of the season, at the very least it would show the hypocrisy of how people are fine with Beckett acting like a lunatic for half a season, but Castle doesn't get to be angry for 10 minutes without people having a problem with him. ;)

CastleSeason8

CastleSeason8

He can still be bad, it could be that Beckett is completely clueless to it, or has faith/trust in Vikram over what others are telling her.

I hope angry Castle is here for the rest of the season, at the very least it would show the hypocrisy of how people are fine with Beckett acting like a lunatic for half a season, but Castle doesn't get to be angry for 10 minutes without people having a problem with him. ;)

Hope ur right about angry Rick, but my guess is going to be about 1 minute or less.

Chado

Chado

(edited)

Hope ur right about angry Rick, but my guess is going to be about 1 minute or less.

Exactly, it won't be long-term, 1 episode at most. They can't have light-hearted episodes with Rick angry at Beckett, so people who assume Castle will be angry for anything beyond the one episode, are forgetting how this show has worked for 7 and 1/2 seasons.

 

Only Beckett gets to treat Castle like a doormat, it doesn't work the other way around. Not until they let Beckett be the punchline to episode humor or have her acting like a fool in spite of the circumstances.

Edited by Chado
KaveDweller

KaveDweller

I hope angry Castle is here for the rest of the season, at the very least it would show the hypocrisy of how people are fine with Beckett acting like a lunatic for half a season, but Castle doesn't get to be angry for 10 minutes without people having a problem with him. ;)

 

I haven't seen a single person say they are okay with how Beckett has been acting this season.

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TWP

TWP

(edited)

I would say NCIS strength is great characterization. All the characters almost always stay in character & react the way I expect them to. I hardly ever say "Gibbs or Abby would not do that". Whereas on Castle I'm constantly saying "why the hell would (fill in the blank) act this way".

Yes, a case in point of that graphic I linked to, where trusting the storyteller is really the heart of a successful story. The NCIS storytellers are trustworthy. This doesn't mean they don't sometimes lead the characters astray and make mistakes with them. But you can typically count on them to hit the high notes properly, something that Castle rarely does (proposal, dating (lack of), screwed up wedding). 

 

Wendy, I don't think the genre or character-focus matters in keeping characters consistent and developing trust in the storyteller. I'll bring up Big Bang Theory again as an example. Ausiello compared the BBT upcoming coupling between Amy and Sheldon with the Caskett "time in".  I knew the parallels were non-existent because I trust the BBT storytellers.  BBT tapes before a live audience so I read the taping reports and confirmed my assumption.  The showrunners knew this was a pinnacle moment and handled it almost perfectly in my mind.  BBT really has awesome character consistency, character depth and development, not perfect, but really good. I am completely confident that with the right storytellers, Castle could be comedic genius and procedural genius while not destroying characters.

Edited by TWP
VinceW

VinceW

(edited)

Does anything good happen in the Castle fall finale (airing Monday)? –Barry
Since I just got done watching it, why don’t I give you a taste of what happens and then you can decide/debate what is “good”?
1) We learn the (unconventional) location of where Vikram and Beckett will be conducting their super-secret LokSat snooping from here on.
2) The Case of the Week is handled almost exclusively by Rick and Kate, together.
3) “Lucy” makes a return!
4) Those who have rightfully complained that Rick A) hasn’t taken Kate to task enough for the abrupt “time out” and B) seems poised to forgive and forget should (should!) be somewhat pleased with some of the angry things he gets to say this Monday.
5) Will Rick’s covert investigation of Kate’s mystery text bring them back together, or blow things up in an irreversible way? Possible hint: One of the marrieds at one point frets, “I just hope I didn’t nuke my marriage.”

 

There seems to be a conflict with the TVLine screener report and the Question/Answer spoiler(questions 1&3) that Chado posted a couple days ago in terms of a real reconciliation happening for the best. TVLine always exaggerates Castle issues. As far as “I just hope I didn’t nuke my marriage.”, Beckett said the exact same thing in 8x02 during a conversation with Vikram. Hard to believe that the writers would leave for hiatus with an angry Castle in the works. IMO

Edited by VinceW
GoGiants

GoGiants

(edited)

There is no story, especially one that can be told in 42 minutes, that will make me look back and appreciate what has happened so far in S8. Not going to happen.

 

Agreed. There is not a satisfying adult explanation waiting at the end of this ridiculous arc. But I will assume that there is more making out waiting at the end of this arc! Yay for more make out GIFs! Excuse my snark. :)

 

Since the S8 story has been nonsensical and unsatisfying, I assume that any explanations will be equally frustrating. I hope they spend very little of the remaining episodes on make up time/couple’s therapy/explanations (ie follow Castle tradition on big deal stories and forget about it asap, lol). This may make me shallow but I don’t have much faith in the product they are putting out.  I’d rather see some version of the show I once enjoyed than what they have served up so far.

 

I do want a resolution and soon. After 7 episodes, my standard for what it should look like is incredibly low. There should be anger, hurt and frustration from Castle, contrition and sorrow from Beckett and ultimately understanding for both of them so they (and the show, viewers etc) can move on. I don’t need or want to see another third or more of the season go to dealing with their break up and make up.

 

8 episodes has been 8 too many for this story. It’s a real shame because I do feel the episodes have been pretty decent this year save for the Loksat/break up albatross. 

 

I will admit to being in full hand waving mode. It’s the only way I think I will enjoy what remains of the show. To waste even more time on such an ill conceived, poorly realized story would just prolong the misery (of the characters, the viewers, etc).

 

As far as what actually happens tomorrow, I have no clue. Not sure what I think from reading the early reviews. I am hoping for a reunion, not sure I’ll come back without it. I will probably save it for a future binge watch or just pretend S7 was the end.

Edited by GoGiants
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Chado

Chado

(edited)

Her actions have fell in line with what she thinks she should be doing, therefore I have liked and been okay with it. So there IS one.

There are plenty of people who are liking Beckett this season, there are also plenty who have liked season 8. You for sure aren't alone.

 

A lot of people seem to have different expectations when it comes to the two characters. Castle has been conditioned into the doormat, into the one who will do anything to keep the peace. Look on social media, there are so many people who don't want to see him stand up for himself, not if it goes against the status quo.

 

Look at the writers in this very next episode.

They have Martha telling Rick that his actions may ruin his relationship forever with Beckett. But where are those words from Martha to Beckett? Nowhere.

The writers allow Beckett to act a certain way, whilst refusing to give Castle the same freedom.

 

Look at the reaction to the mere idea of Castle showing anger, you don't see it when Beckett gets angry with Castle. Nobody says "I hope Beckett doesn't stay angry at Castle for long" and you sure as shit don't see her getting called a douchebag or have an arc named after her behavior.

 

The characters aren't given the same affordances. There is not the same reaction to Beckett treating Castle with indifference and Castle treating Beckett with indifference.

 

Imagine a season of Castle telling Beckett to leave him alone, to not wanting her around him. You'd never see it. Fans would cut that behavior down into 2 episodes before they started writing the next episode lol.

Edited by Chado
GoGiants

GoGiants

(edited)

I'll bring up Big Bang Theory again as an example. Ausiello compared the BBT upcoming coupling between Amy and Sheldon with the Caskett "time in".  I knew the parallels were non-existent because I trust the BBT storytellers.  BBT tapes before a live audience so I read the taping reports and confirmed my assumption.  The showrunners knew this was a pinnacle moment and handled it almost perfectly in my mind.  BBT really has awesome character consistency, character depth and development, not perfect, but really good. I am completely confident that with the right storytellers, Castle could be comedic genius and procedural genius while not destroying characters.

 

TWP, I have been thinking about The Big Bang Theory in contrast to Castle all season long. The writers and showrunners over at the BBT are telling a story that is authentic to the characters and their experiences, unlike our friends here at Castle.

 

Current season BBT spoilers below

 

I loved Sheldon and Amy together. However, their breakup, unlike Castle and Beckett's split, is actually taking the 2 characters places they've never been. Amy has dated new people and Sheldon has had to deal with the aftermath of a broken heart. The episodes that have aired still feel like BBT, not a show that has cut its own heart out (looking at you Castle).

Edited by GoGiants
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statsgirl

statsgirl

Martha went to Beckett's office to give her a talking to. But granted, it's not enough. It's never enough because the producers need to hide how stupid this plot is.

 

 

I would say NCIS strength is great characterization. All the characters almost always stay in character & react the way I expect them to. I hardly ever say "Gibbs or Abby would not do that". Whereas on Castle I'm constantly saying "why the hell would (fill in the blank) act this way".

The problem with NCIS, and the reason I gave up on it, is that the characters never move from where they are. Tony has barely grown up in the last 12 years, neither he nor Gibbs can have an adult relationship (and if their exes return, they return married).  McGee, having the least status, was allowed to have a long distance relationship. Abby is chronically single, as is Ducky.  Palmer's marriage is almost entirely off-screen, and Leon's single again now..

 

The problem, even now, is The Moonlighting Curse that showrunners but few other people believe in.The mess that is Castle this season is because the new executive producers wanted to take the show back to before Rick and Kate got together.  I think Bones was very lucky that Emily Deschanel got pregnant and they had to put Booth and Bones together because without that, I don't think they've be together yet.

 

It's hard to write the road from UST to good relationship. It can be done, TBBT seems to have a handle on it and Arrow has been very good this season in terms of the two relationships (Diggle/Lyla and Oliver/Felicity).  It can be done, but it seems like Hawley and Winter are up to it.

Betweenthisandthat

Betweenthisandthat

(edited)
The problem with NCIS, and the reason I gave up on it, is that the characters never move from where they are. Tony has barely grown up in the last 12 years, neither he nor Gibbs can have an adult relationship (and if their exes return, they return married).  McGee, having the least status, was allowed to have a long distance relationship. Abby is chronically single, as is Ducky.  Palmer's marriage is almost entirely off-screen, and Leon's single again now..

 

I wouldn't quite describe the show like this, but I still watch it, so difference of opinion and all that. 

 

NCIS at the end of the day is about Gibbs and the team, like it or not, that's why it's been on for 13 years and hasn't slowed down yet. It's not about romantic relationships.  That can be part of the story but it's not really what the show is about.  For example, McGee is living with his girlfriend now and Tony's been in a relationship for almost a year.  But all of those relationships could end, and the show wouldn't change even if the characters' personal lives do. No matter who is with whom, you know the team will work together to solve a case.  Despite cast changes and missteps, it returns to what it knows it's about: the team.  The best episodes happen when the team works together.  There's been some character changes recently, but I trust the show enough to know it won't implode on itself.

 

Castle seems to have done that on some level. My favorite elements of the show have long gone and I wasn't a shipper, but I knew that Caskett was the show for a lot of people.  That partnership was the show and their romance was what people talked about.  The writers chose to make the show be what it wasn't in this separation.  From what I gather, it became unrecognizable to vocal fans who liked it for what it was.  

 

I don't know if it's about UST or Moonlighting curse or what.  It might be all about change.  There's a balance between keeping a show familiar and making sure it doesn't go stale.  It's not easy to find that balance because every viewer wants something different. Castle writers wanted to change the show to keep it fresh, but I know who they were trying to please in going the direction it did.  

 

The fallout to these changes has been interesting to watch from the sidelines.

Edited by Betweenthisandthat
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verdana

verdana

(edited)

I hope angry Castle is here for the rest of the season, at the very least it would show the hypocrisy of how people are fine with Beckett acting like a lunatic for half a season, but Castle doesn't get to be angry for 10 minutes without people having a problem with him. ;)

A big hulking guy standing over his wife yelling or being douchey towards her is never going to go down well or engender much sympathy no matter how much he may be in the right plus yelling at someone is usually completely counter productive in that the other person switches off, recoils or gets naturally defensive and any point you are trying to make is lost. That's why I don't want to see Castle yelling at her for too long and there's little else. It's as if the writers are playing to the gallery, they've set up Beckett to look bad (whether by accident or design) and have decided the quickest and easiest way to win a big round of applause and cheers from a grumbling fan base annoyed with Beckett's actions is to let her have it with both barrels and as long as Beckett sobs and says sorry enough times that will take care of everything.

But I don't think it should satisfy anyone because it's just superficial drama. I can well imagine that's exactly what's going to happen and if it does than that's certainly not been worth having to endure this set up for something that cliched and predictable. But at this stage I can see myself accepting that and hand waving my reservations because I'm so fed up with this story tainting their interactions each week.

And as you said it's a given that the anger will last only briefly because that's the way the show deals with things so even if Castle is very angry indeed it won't carry through into further episodes, they always want to get back to the lighter fare so they can't wallow in it for very long. In one way that's a good thing since most people don't watch the show (and I'm one of them) for angsty relationships but on the other hand it also means if the writing isn't up to scratch any brief moments they do have can lack depth and feel as if they're glossing over serious problems which should have deeper repercussions.

Once they get back together this will presumably never be discussed again but as GoGiants said given the writers track record in dealing with these things I'd rather they didn't even try to address anything it will only make things worse. I just want my show back now lol.

Edited by verdana
verdana

verdana

 

I think when those of us who say, "I wish Castle would get angry" what we mean is:

 

1. Castle stops just backing away when Beckett refuses to give him any explanation as to why she left. 

2. That he demand some answers

3. That once he gets those answers, he gets her to understand what her secrets have cost to the relationship.

4. He insist she get some help, because clearly she is backsliding.

I'm going to be interested to see how many of those get ticked off when Castle finally does confront her.  Like I said my expectations are set low to avoid disappointment. 

Chado

Chado

I think when those of us who say, "I wish Castle would get angry" what we mean is:

 

1. Castle stops just backing away when Beckett refuses to give him any explanation as to why she left. 

2. That he demand some answers

3. That once he gets those answers, he gets her to understand what her secrets have cost to the relationship.

4. He insist she get some help, because clearly she is backsliding.

 

But yes, he does need to call her on the carpet. Remember when Castle was able to punish Alexis, but you could tell there was a loving father behind the anger? That it was concern for her that pushed him and not just blind rage?

 

I mean, seriously. Imagine you had your partner walk out on you with no explanation and played games and essentially watched you grovel for their love. You'd need to express yourself. Say you're upset. Get a little angry. Tell them how their behavior has affected you.

 

Again, I feel when people take offense to the word "angry" that it's the same thing when we'd get upset over Beckett/Castle romantic moments being interrupted, and it was assumed we just wanted them to have sex. Here, it's assumed the word "angry" somehow means Castle will bully and berate her. No. That would be two wrongs. 

 

But freaking A, he has to demand she talk to him and act like they're two adults in a relationship. 

This x100. Anger doesn't mean yelling. Anger means making her own up to her actions, confronting her, demanding to be treated with respect. The puppy dog 'i have complete faith in you' bs just lets her leave him and walk all over him indefinitely until she decides that her marriage is important again.

 

Why is he so understanding when she is giving him nothing in return? Why isn't he demanding something from her? Their little talk after their booty call, did nothing to remind her what she is potentially throwing away by her actions. Nobody is putting her to the sword for this, nobody.

 

I want to see him confront her, and when she evades once again, he walks away and moves on with his life. He can't keep chasing her forever, it makes him look so pathetic.

 

I'm expecting this episode to give people half of what they want (from both sides), Castle will just open his arms after a half assed apology and Beckett will think she has made the right decision and continue her bff time with Vikram.

 

They'll move the story along, but give nothing significant from either side.

TWP

TWP

I'm pretty sure that the Angry is going to be the Always kind of Angry.  "4 years, I've been right here (except it's 8 now)".  It's going to be the hurt-kind, not the brute-kind of angry.

 

I'm not sure how "broken Beckett" would ever go back to Castle if he doesn't air his frustration. She has been written as an addict.  Just as with any other addict, she won't get help until she hits rock bottom.  She won't hit rock bottom unless Castle tells her off and leaves.  Just like last time.  Always 2.0.

 

And of course, just like last time, the Angry is going to be followed by the Makeup Sex.  Makeup Sex is going to be followed by hiding the relationship, because no doubt the big bad will still be there and the relationship will have to be hidden.  Then comes jealousy 2.0 as someone, not sure who, pretends to be dating someone else, just like Cloudy? was it. Really somebody needs to tell Hawley that he can just go out and buy the DVDs if he wants to see this all unfold.  He doesn't have to relive it through the characters. And we as viewers don't need to watch, since we've actually seen it before!

 

Honestly, something will really have to prove satisfying tonight, or I may not be able to come back next year anyway to watch showrunners defecate all over an already weak story, with deadly ratings.  It's too heartbreaking to watch it die, when the writing is as responsible as the show-age for the death.

 

Yahhhhwn.

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CastleSeason8

CastleSeason8

(edited)

Exactly TWP, and thats what i meant by my comment earlier about them not having an original thought. Every TV show out there follows a troupe to some extent, but AH and his wise team are just regurgitating whats been done on Castle before, and not even trying to hide it. Do they honestly think we're going to fall all over ourselves and lap it up. I for one call it lack of originality, sloppiness, laziness and being just plain untalented.

Edited by CastleSeason8
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TWP

TWP

Exactly TWP, and that's what i meant by my comment earlier about them not having an original thought. Every TV show out there follows a troupe to some extent, but AH and his wise team are just regurgitating whats been done on Castle before, and not even trying to hide it. Do they honestly think we're going to fall all over ourselves and lap it up. I for one call it lack of originality, sloppiness, laziness and being just plain untalented.

I'll add low-budget.  At 1.1 ratings, I doubt they have money for great storytelling.  But it's a self-defeating loop.  Bad story, bad ratings, bad budget.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

Bubbi63

Bubbi63

I will bet we here the famous "its my life".  Anyway, Castle has never been the type to get angry and scream at people.  Out of all the spoilers I have read I like this one the best because at the very least he gets angry and lets her know it and it sounds as if he puts a clock on her and her obsession. 

I will watch--I was sorry I watched last week but its the finale.

Just really not sure I will be back in Jan......................

verdana

verdana

Really somebody needs to tell Hawley that he can just go out and buy the DVDs if he wants to see this all unfold.  He doesn't have to relive it through the characters. And we as viewers don't need to watch, since we've actually seen it before!

I'm starting to think Hawley has some chip on his shoulder about something, he left at the end of S4 on what I presumed was good terms with Marlowe but perhaps not. May be coming back he saw as a chance to put his stamp on things, stick two fingers up at his old boss and replay the show in the way he wanted to be, pity we've all moved on and you can't turn back time, you can't recapture those moments again.

  • Love 2
TWP

TWP

(edited)

Even i can think of a few storylines that havent been done before...and Im no fiction writer.

 

I could say that about any number of shows.  Over the holidays, I think it would be fun to crowd source a few episodes.  Maybe we can school them ;-).  But I don't think the story goes the way it goes because the writers are incapable of designing something better.  Likely the problem is the push-me-pull you of network, actor, time, money, ego forces.

 

I'm starting to think Hawley has some chip on his shoulder about something, he left at the end of S4 on what I presumed was good terms with Marlowe but perhaps not. May be coming back he saw as a chance to put his stamp on things, stick two fingers up at his old boss and replay the show in the way he wanted to be, pity we've all moved on and you can't turn back time, you can't recapture those moments again.

 

 

Eps 1-7 were Hawley's answer to the "it was all a dream" reset button.  Personally, I'd have preferred the dream trope.

Edited by TWP
oberon55

oberon55

I think it is a shame that they chose to go with a story where the only logical outcome is an angry & hurt Castle. I don't enjoy bitter Castle anymore than I do secretive Beckett. I have little hope that this confrontation will propel the story forward in any half-assed satisfying way. All I can say at this point is that so far this has been one seriously fucked up season.

KaveDweller

KaveDweller

I'm starting to think Hawley has some chip on his shoulder about something, he left at the end of S4 on what I presumed was good terms with Marlowe but perhaps not. May be coming back he saw as a chance to put his stamp on things, stick two fingers up at his old boss and replay the show in the way he wanted to be, pity we've all moved on and you can't turn back time, you can't recapture those moments again.

I've gotten this feeling as well. He gave a bunch of interviews implying the show wasn't that good after he left. And he us writing the show like its three years ago. If he had issues with Marlowe and is trying to piss him off it makes a little more sense.

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VinceW

VinceW

USA TODAY CRITIC’S CORNER  Robert Bianco @BiancoRobert

BLINDSPOT/CASTLE  NBC/ABC
These two series head off for their holiday breaks tonight as the Blindspot team chases a group of sleeper spies while Castle and Beckett take a cruise to find a murderer. For those Castle viewers who still care, let’s hope this fall finale also marks the end of the characters’ separation, a plot contrivance that seems to be separating fans from the show.

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femmefan1946

femmefan1946

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/television/john-doyle-its-time-to-cancel-some-dead-shows/article27396452/

 

There are shows that should be cancelled.

Why the heck is Grey’s Anatomy still on the air? Hasn’t Modern Family become lame and repetitive? Could the new soaper Blood & Oil be any more boring? If you thought Castle had been cancelled, think again. It’s still there, mysteriously. The same goes for The Middle. Surely the novelty of The Muppets has worn off and the show should be put out if its misery? Once Upon a Time was, once upon a time, an interesting fantasy, but now it is fumbling the plot. I’m sure you all have your own list.

VinceW

VinceW

(edited)

After watching the latest Madam Secretary last night, I wonder now if the "shift" or twist to the story becomes that LokSat is classified and Beckett is in legal jeopardy if shared with Castle which then becomes the new obstacle for them working together on it besides Castle safety concerns. Classified information and sharing with a spouse is a big issue between Henry and Bess in many of the MS episodes. 

Edited by VinceW
turnitwayup

turnitwayup

  • Author
(edited)

Still watching the ep in my timezone but Seamus knows what's up lol
 

seamusdever: Welcome to the "I only clockblock cuz the writers tell me to" club, Sunkrish https://twitter.com/sunkrishbala/status/668999076365471744

sunkrisbala: In these moments, I think it's important to remember I'm just an actor. #castle

Edited by turnitwayup
statsgirl

statsgirl

I've gotten this feeling as well. He gave a bunch of interviews implying the show wasn't that good after he left. And he us writing the show like its three years ago. If he had issues with Marlowe and is trying to piss him off it makes a little more sense.

I get the feeling that he also belongs to the "if the couple is together, the show is boring" club.  What is it going to take to get him to see differently?

 

 

 

I wouldn't quite describe the show like this, but I still watch it, so difference of opinion and all that. 

 

NCIS at the end of the day is about Gibbs and the team, like it or not, that's why it's been on for 13 years and hasn't slowed down yet. It's not about romantic relationships.  That can be part of the story but it's not really what the show is about.

I didn't explain myself well.  For me, it's not whether they are or aren't in relationships, those are only an indicator.  I gave up on NCIS because the characters for the most part remained stuck in who they were when they came on the show.  Gibbs is still an emotional mute, which would be okay if Tony didn't remain a college frat boy (I got so sick of those practical jokes), or Abby an eager puppy, or Ducky solitary or McGee an also-ran.  If I can't if it's season 3 or 8 from who the characters are, why am I still watching because the cases all blend into each other?

 

I like to see characters develop and grow up as they age.  Castle was giving me that until this season when both Rick and Kate seemed to regress to being 15 and 12 years old respectively.

verdana

verdana

(edited)

Castle 8x09 Promo Castle Season 8 Episode 9 Promo “Tone Death” (HD)

 

I don't get this, at the end of this episode they both agreed to maintain a "fake" separation so they could try and take down Locksat but they're clearly sleeping together given that one short clip as she kisses him goodbye in the morning, so I presume she's back in the loft so how is this new version of their separation working exactly? It seems even more laughable than before. 

 

I mean just how dumb are Locksat? 

Edited by verdana
TWP

TWP

The Hawley - Winters post-mortem: http://tvline.com/2015/11/23/castle-season-8-rick-kate-reunite-fall-finale/ 

 

....and my editorial statement, which is "ugh".

 

The cluelessness. It burns. Ratings talk? TVGRIMREAPER will have fun with them, LOL.

 

Definitely no babies in the forsee able future. Phew! I can't even imagine these showrunners writing babies.

verdana

verdana

(edited)

cappuccino. I've realised reading that interview, yeah you're on to something and we're moving into S5 now that "Always 2.0" is finished with and their hiding their relationship from everyone. Fresh ideas are obviously hard to come by with these two.

One of the comments summed it up that interview well "what a load of clap trap!".

Do they realise how dumb they sound? I notice they dodge around how long they will be "apart" I hope this equally stupid fake break up doesn't drag on another 8 episodes but fear it might. Not that you can tell any difference from when they are together normally although how much fun is it going to be watching them having to lie to Martha, Alexis and everyone else for weeks on end or is this ruse only for the benefit of people outside the 12th? I've got a headache from reading this.

HAWLEY | It was also very important for us to address some of Beckett’s emotional issues. When Castle tells her, “You like being broken” — which is why it never occurred to her to get him involved in the conspiracy, so to speak — we thought that was really valuable to her character and to their relationship. Because at the end of the day, he’s calling her on her s–t in a way that we don’t get to do that much.

They haven't addressed her emotional issues, they created this idea she's broken and then never remotely explored it properly and brushed it away like its nothing. Oh and another thing when he's saying she never thought about involving him, what about Bracken? She involved Castle in that conspiracy so why not this one too?

WINTER | In fact, in the first episode back [airing Feb. 1], which is called “Tone Deaf,” there are a couple of great sequences that we have never been able to on the show, because Castle and Beckett are hiding the fact that they’re together again.

S5 dealt with that but back into the past we go again, rehashing old relationship dynamics, has Winter forgotten all this?

WINTER | The reality is that we put Beckett in a situation where there was no easy right answer. And that’s life. Just like when we came up with this season, we didn’t want it to be simple, we didn’t want it to be easy. We wanted to challenge our characters and our staff with the storytelling.

There was an easy answer, she needed to stop investigating from the start and go back to her husband, there was nothing difficult about it or anything remotely that made me feel she was in a genuine dilemma emotionally that I could relate towards. I'll agree with them it wasn't simple or easy to watch and they certainly challenged me as a viewer though. Edited by verdana
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turnitwayup

turnitwayup

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Definitely no babies in the forsee able future. Phew! I can't even imagine these showrunners writing babies.

 

Ikr? It's a good thing that the Ryans has taken the background baby story cause if these two can't even write the main married couple, an adult age daughter and friendships, they have no hope for babies. Now I wonder what would happened if it was Hanning instead of Hawley that got the co-showrunner position. Would we still be stuck with a rehash of s4? Wouldn't be surprised if he bails if the show manages to get another season and TWP/Hawley is still in charger or is he sticking around cause he's likely next in line to be showrunner with who's left.

oberon55

oberon55

 

TVLINE | I was thinking that if you had even one extra act in the fall finale, would you have left Rick angry for a bit longer?

HAWLEY | Yeah, we probably would have. It was very important that he had a moment when she comes to him in the loft where he didn’t just say yes, because she did hurt him — even though I know the audience, when he says, “It’s not that easy,” might throw stuff at the television, because it looks like we might not put them together….

 

I had my doubts that they could pull it off but after such a cathartic and emotional two minute conversation I'm sure Beckett is cured of her obsessive behavior & Castle can have complete confidence in her moving forward. It was Castle's 30 second hesitation before he caved that really sold it. A brilliant finish for a brilliantly conceived story.

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cappuccino

cappuccino

 

TVLINE | I was thinking that if you had even one extra act in the fall finale, would you have left Rick angry for a bit longer?

HAWLEY | Yeah, we probably would have.

There was a lot of crap in that episode that could have been cut out for putting that one but hey that wouldn't have been FUN right?

 

Continue with the quote from Hawley:

 

 

It was very important that he had a moment when she comes to him in the loft where he didn’t just say yes, because she did hurt him.

.....

Because at the end of the day, he’s calling her on her s–t in a way that we don’t get to do that much.

......

WINTER | And there will be vice versa as we move on through the season

There we go. Bus - Castle - Boom next victim under it.

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