Spoilers, Speculation & All Things Media!

[BlakesMomma]

8 minutes ago, TWP said:

Yep, because the corporate world is loaded with sexists at the top and it's more important that you quit your job to stand up for principles than it is to pay your mortgage or feed your kids.  The one saving grace for me is that I don't have to witness the uglier side of the fandom any longer.  For that, I am cheering.

One question for me is since the show is cancelled, are production staff working around the clock this weekend to populate the alternate ending?  I thought that had to be sealed a week before broadcast (presumably to work out broadcast issues?).  Was this not such a sudden decision as they tried to make us believe?

Or maybe there wasn't really an alternate ending, and it's going to end the same way either way. They'll probably release via DVD whichever ending they don't use.

Someone on social media or in an article recently said they had to deliver the finalized episode to ABC today (Friday) for broadcast on Monday.  But I also recall one of the writers/crew (?) stating that the latest they've ever delivered an episode to the network was the morning of broadcast so it could be a busy weekend for editing.  I do believe they shot two endings, but I'm not convinced the "series" finale will be what some might consider a "happy" ending.  We'll find out on Monday.

[westwingfan]

10 minutes ago, TWP said:

Yep, because the corporate world is loaded with sexists at the top and it's more important that you quit your job to stand up for principles than it is to pay your mortgage or feed your kids.  The one saving grace for me is that I don't have to witness the uglier side of the fandom any longer.  For that, I am cheering.

One question for me is since the show is cancelled, are production staff working around the clock this weekend to populate the alternate ending?  I thought that had to be sealed a week before broadcast (presumably to work out broadcast issues?).  Was this not such a sudden decision as they tried to make us believe?

Or maybe there wasn't really an alternate ending, and it's going to end the same way either way. They'll probably release via DVD whichever ending they don't use.

TPW told TV Line this in their article on Apr 16 about the multiple endings.

“Basically we have to deliver an episode on the Friday before we air,” Winter says, “and it’s up to ABC to tell us which one that is.”

So the deadline was today, Friday 13th

[FlickerToAFlame]

I hope people are bracing themselves that "closure" might mean we see Beckett flatline now instead of in the season premiere. 

[westwingfan]

14 minutes ago, FlickerToAFlame said:

I hope people are bracing themselves that "closure" might mean we see Beckett flatline now instead of in the season premiere. 

LOL

[CheshireCat]

2 hours ago, LegalParrot81 said:

 

This cancellation makes me feel sad for all the people we don't see, the ones behind the cameras.  I'm sure they all thought they were covered for at least one more season.

Assuming the writers who left left on their own then I'd say they might all have seen the writing on the wall. Don't forget, it was social media which gave the Impression that Castle would be renewed. They did so by upping their "rating" and by posting all those such and such has reached an agreement. Behind the scenes, a renewal might not have seemed to be so much of a done deal as it seemed to us. (And the season would most likely have been only 13 episodes anyway)

[chraume]

1 minute ago, CheshireCat said:

Assuming the writers who left left on their own then I'd say they might all have seen the writing on the wall. Don't forget, it was social media which gave the Impression that Castle would be renewed. They did so by upping their "rating" and by posting all those such and such has reached an agreement. Behind the scenes, a renewal might not have seemed to be so much of a done deal as it seemed to us. (And the season would most likely have been only 13 episodes anyway)

Yep. I get the impression that ABC Studios was pulling for the show to continue, thereby leaking all the contracts being signed, and the network has been waffling on the decision. Which makes sense; I've long thought that it would be stupid to renew a show with already "meh" ratings (although ratings that are now performing better than a lot of the renewed shows), which would likely see a small decline with a revamped show, while still (presumably) giving all of the season regulars raises. Especially when the alternative is giving a new show a chance, with the opportunity to build ratings.

That said, Castle's ratings weren't likely to go up regardless of Katic signing or not, and I'm a little relieved to see the show coming to an end instead of petering out. But I absolutely could have seen financial reason for the network to continue, too, so... I'm grateful they made this decision, if only so Twitter can calm down. 

[TWP]

16 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

Assuming the writers who left left on their own then I'd say they might all have seen the writing on the wall. Don't forget, it was social media which gave the Impression that Castle would be renewed. They did so by upping their "rating" and by posting all those such and such has reached an agreement. Behind the scenes, a renewal might not have seemed to be so much of a done deal as it seemed to us. (And the season would most likely have been only 13 episodes anyway)

Many writers also left last year.  Of course, they might have seen the writing on the wall then too.

I'm excited to see Rob Hanning over at Hawaii 50.  Maybe I'll start watching it again.

[pennben]

n/m

Edited May 13, 2016 by pennben

[westwingfan]

4 minutes ago, TWP said:

Many writers also left last year.  Of course, they might have seen the writing on the wall then too.

I'm excited to see Rob Hanning over at Hawaii 50.  Maybe I'll start watching it again.

Before I joined some Castle forums I'd never really bothered with showrunners, writers and directors, but now I'm armed with a list of will watch/won't watch for both. TPW had written some of my favourite episodes, and some of Hawley's during his previous stint on the show were good too, but since becoming showruners they have gone down in my estimation for the future, if they stick to writing I might give them a chance, especially TPW.

[CheshireCat]

8 minutes ago, westwingfan said:

Before I joined some Castle forums I'd never really bothered with showrunners, writers and directors, but now I'm armed with a list of will watch/won't watch for both. TPW had written some of my favourite episodes, and some of Hawley's during his previous stint on the show were good too, but since becoming showruners they have gone down in my estimation for the future, if they stick to writing I might give them a chance, especially TPW.

Keep in mind that there is a chance that they may have done the best they could under circumstances. Maybe the "the best they could" wasn't necessarily "the best", still, what they wanted and what they ended up doing might have been two different things.

At the same time, I read that Hawley left Castle after S4 because he and Marlowe had "creative differences". In my opinion, it's not really good to make someone showrunner who left a show due to creative differences with the creator. That strongly suggests Hawley didn't share Marlowe's vision. In other words, how can he take over and carry on a show and do it justice if he doesn't share the creator's vision for it? (At the same time, it might have been why ABC brought him in, because they actually wanted to "shake things up". Which he certainly did.)

And still, all of that doesn't really say anything about how he would fare if he created his own show.

[chraume]

7 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

Keep in mind that there is a chance that they may have done the best they could under circumstances. Maybe the "the best they could" wasn't necessarily "the best", still, what they wanted and what they ended up doing might have been two different things.

At the same time, I read that Hawley left Castle after S4 because he and Marlowe had "creative differences". In my opinion, it's not really good to make someone showrunner who left a show due to creative differences with the creator. That strongly suggests Hawley didn't share Marlowe's vision. In other words, how can he take over and carry on a show and do it justice if he doesn't share the creator's vision for it? (At the same time, it might have been why ABC brought him in, because they actually wanted to "shake things up". Which he certainly did.)

And still, all of that doesn't really say anything about how he would fare if he created his own show.

I could be wrong, but I think Hawley created the short-lived State of Affairs.

I mean, I agree that some of the arguments against Hawley/Winter were largely caused by some of the constraints set upon them, although I still find the season to have been poorly-written and I suspect that they knew what they were signing up for. But yeah, I'm open to seeing what else they can come up with; Winter's written some great episodes for the show, and I'd like to see how he performs as an individual showrunner. And they had to work with a largely new staff, and took a shot on some new writers to give them their first episodes of TV, which I think is great. We seem to have a fundamental difference of opinion of what constitutes 'fun,' but I still think XX/XY were brilliantly written. 

[MaryM47]

tvline has compiled reactions from several of the cast, including a very classy note from SK

http://tvline.com/2016/05/13/castle-cancelled-season-9-stana-katic-cast-reactions/

[S55]

1 hour ago, TWP said:

The one saving grace for me is that I don't have to witness the uglier side of the fandom any longer.  For that, I am cheering.

Amen. I used to think the post-DD's departure XF fandom was the worst I'd ever witnessed, but Castle has now surpassed them in my mind. And that's a tall order. 

[madmaverick]

14 hours ago, mledawn said:

Since there was a core group of Stana fans who were convinced it was Nathan's fault she was ousted, I'm going to assume there are a core group of Nathan fans who are now blaming the cancellation on Stana because of the backlash?

I don't think I'll miss the fandom (present company excluded, of course), and the storywriting had taken a downturn in my books - I think it's time. Hopefully there is a proper, decent send off.

Hate has mostly been a one way street from hardcore Stanatics towards Nathan rather than from his fans to her from what I've seen in my little corner of fandom.  I think most mature people don't believe in 'an eye for an eye' or in pitching the actors against each other.  It's those who believe that that have driven an ugly, vicious cycle of recrimination in the fandom.  I will follow Stana's work but I will not miss the ugly elements of her fandom at all.  Good riddance.  I would hate to have those fangirls on my jury. ;)  Irrationality at its worst. 

14 hours ago, SweetTooth said:

There's craziness in all fandoms of anything. It's the world we live in now. Most of the time you have to go searching for it. I don't,so I don't see it. 

I understand they tweet stars directly, but again, they should be quite used to that by now and just block and mute. 

People vent their frustrations and need someone to take it out on. The trick is to just see it for what it is and not take it to heart.

An existence of a block button is still no excuse for people's bad behaviour in my book.  People need to take responsibility for their online behaviour as a reflection of their character, or lack thereof. Taking issue with ABC's decision about Stana and expressing anger and disappointment with that is one thing, but it's something else entirely when you start hurling abuse, unproven accusations, and harassing people and hoping people would lose their jobs.  That's way over the line and there was plenty of ugly behaviour in the fandom.  Let's not sugarcoat that.

17 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I didn't mean that fans were happy about actors losing jobs, I meant that it may seem that way to actors if they see cheering about the cancellation.

There were plenty of fans who were essentially rooting for people to lose their jobs with the cancel Castle campaign and informing those people directly of their demands on twitter.  Is it any surprise that cast and crew were not best pleased?  Sure, people say it's par for the course in the industry and that people will move on to other jobs, but you can glean from writers' references to the stressful period of staffing season, and crew's references to mortgages and college educations that needed to be funded, that continued employment was desired, naturally.  A lot of loud fans were very insensitive to that very natural desire.

1 hour ago, FlickerToAFlame said:

I hope people are bracing themselves that "closure" might mean we see Beckett flatline now instead of in the season premiere. 

Someone did joke (in good humour not in a mean spirited way) that Beckett dies in both endings.  But I think the odds of Castle and Beckett dying are close to nil.   Mitovich basically said that even in the ending we're not going to see that Beckett wouldn't be dead.  We'll get a happy ending, but that's not the same as a satisfying ending.  I hope we get a meaningful closing scene, and not just one that's superficial at best and all too short that doesn't get room to breathe.  But expectations are low. ;)

9 hours ago, pennben said:

I'm not fully sure how these contracts work.  I assume that a large part of the contract was fleshing out the issues of what happens if Castle comes back for the next year, and possibly x number of years thereafter.  Since it didn't, those terms won't apply. I also assume that in cases like this, there's also a payout clause of some sort...if Castle doesn't come back, we owe you $x or whatever else may have been negotiated. I mean that could work even for a spinoff; a) if Castle comes back as Castle, you get X, b) if Castle comes back as a new spinoff, you get X-y, c) if neither happens, you get Z.  I'm assuming everyones Z is different.

As a lawyer, I can say that contract clauses are a bitch ;), and that there are always contingencies for every kind of situation in a well drafted contract.

I wish all the cast the best and may they all find roles soon that are worthy of their talents.  I'm not sure Castle lived up to that in the past few years.   I hope Nathan and Stana never work with Marlowe or Hawley again.  They can both do better. ;)  

Edited May 13, 2016 by madmaverick

[westwingfan]

34 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

Keep in mind that there is a chance that they may have done the best they could under circumstances. Maybe the "the best they could" wasn't necessarily "the best", still, what they wanted and what they ended up doing might have been two different things.

At the same time, I read that Hawley left Castle after S4 because he and Marlowe had "creative differences". In my opinion, it's not really good to make someone showrunner who left a show due to creative differences with the creator. That strongly suggests Hawley didn't share Marlowe's vision. In other words, how can he take over and carry on a show and do it justice if he doesn't share the creator's vision for it? (At the same time, it might have been why ABC brought him in, because they actually wanted to "shake things up". Which he certainly did.)

And still, all of that doesn't really say anything about how he would fare if he created his own show.

I wasn't aware that Hawley may have left after Always due to creative differences, perhaps he felt they should never have let Castle and Beckett become a couple, he certainly made no bones about his prediliction for the WTWT format when he returned as showrunner, and it did appear that he had an agenda to rewrite some of the earlier episodes to show he could have done them better that had nothing to do with the BTS issues, but maybe he used those for his own ends when he came up with a story that broke up Caskett after just two episodes of S8.

[westwingfan]

10 minutes ago, madmaverick said:

Someone did joke (in good humour not in a mean spirited way) that Beckett dies in both endings.  But I think the odds of Castle and Beckett dying are close to nil.   Mitovich basically said that even in the ending we're not going to see that Beckett wouldn't be dead.  We'll get a happy ending, but that's not the same as a satisfying ending.  I hope we get a meaningful closing scene, and not just one that's superficial at best and all too short that doesn't get room to breathe.  But expectations are low. ;)

 

There was some discussion about the role of the child "Lily" in the finale, maybe the ending they didn’t want to air is in fact a time jump after the shoot-out which fades out with an undetermined resolution and then fades back in showing Caskett playing with their daughter. It would only need to last a minute or two and the dialogue could explain the intervening years and how they are in a happy place. Castle might mention how well his latest serious novel is doing and then Beckett gets a phone call and answers “Senator Beckett”.  Hawley’s cribbed most of Marlowe’s ideas already this season so he might as well crib that one for the final ending.

[madmaverick]

I'm sure some fans will be swooning over future Caskett babies, but I'm not sure I need to see a scene of say, Caskett at the swings, camera pans out to see 3 kids playing in the park.  Too on the nose?  I don't mind some things left to the imagination.  

As long as they don't bring up another conspiracy for them to investigate in the future in the final few secs of the show.  ;)

I'm hoping we get at least one passionate clinch, but hopes aren't high.  Although the episode photos aren't without promise...  I just hope all the screen time isn't sucked up by Locksat exposition leaving barely any minutes for the personal Caskett stuff that people actually care about.

[turnitwayup]

Nathan finally tweeted about the cancellation, then of course jokes about being free for new roles. I'm kinda wondering if any of the cast will live tweet the finale.

Quote

All things must end. It has been an honor working with the men and women of Castle. I am truly amazed at what we’ve done. Thank you all.

Dear Every Director,
It appears I have an opening in my schedule.

Dear Fans,
In whatever project I do next, loudly notice how unlike Castle and fresh and versatile I am. Thanks.

[madmaverick]

I find both Nathan and Stana's styles appealing in different ways.  I wish more fans embraced that cool diversity while appreciating that it doesn't mean they don't share some underpinning values, like sincere gratitude and respect for the Castle experience. 

I know both of them can play characters like Castle and Beckett very well, but I really hope they get the opportunity to show their talents in a very different kind of role as a challenge for their acting skills.

[MaryM47]

Quote

 I don't mind some things left to the imagination.

Me either, yet I hope they don't go the way of The Good Wife or The Sopranos. For all the murder, Castle was a very light-hearted drama, and to see one of the showrunners decide to get their David Chase on at the last minute would be rather disingenuous at this point. I do wonder how "alternate" this series ender will be: 55 minutes of LokSat BS, and at the very end the bullet meant to take out Beckett misses by just this much. Or did they take the idea of a series finale a little more seriously and take the time to film some authentic closure for these characters? Inquiring minds can hardly wait for Monday!

[anoldfriend]

There is always a story, you just have to find it. 

Edited May 14, 2016 by anoldfriend

[Annec]

On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 5:13 PM, KaveDweller said:

I don't think they are releasing anything officially. I think Deadline/TVLine whoever is hearing from contacts and posting it to get site traffic. There haven't been any official statements about any of these.

I think they are hoping that news of these contract signings might get people excited about a season 9.  It looks to me like ABC is hoping that something appears in their new series options that would let them

The one thing Hawley and TPW were undoubtedly in control of was the writing and it was very weak this year.  They chose the focus on Castle's belief in the supernatural for way too many episodes.  They decided that the inclusion of the sexist language this year was acceptable.  I don't doubt that their job was made more challenging by the bts drama but they still bear a great deal of responsibility for the worst season of Castle. 

[371012]

9 minutes ago, anoldfriend said:

Guys---this isn't a big mystery. What went down is about as twisty as a case of the week on our now over favorite show. 

Fillion and Katic haven't wanted to be in the same room together since season 6. This was a ticking time bomb. Cluster that with falling ratings (thanks Marlowe for killing your own show after its highest rated season) and a huge budget which equals a huge license fee that the network covers all over in these later years (industry standard) 

The studio wanted to keep the show anyway they could. Someone clearly thought if they at least could deliver Nathan it had a chance. The network didn't care enough to be clear about what they wanted. 

Don't waste your time deciding who is the culprit here. Stana had her foot out the door two years ago. Don't get it twisted, Nathan was more than happy to help her pack her shit, but she'a not quite the victim of sexism and bullying that the press made it sound like. 

Basically everything you have heard is true and a lie because of all of this about perception depending on the POV you are sitting from. 

Bottom line, has Paul Lee not been a bumbling fool, this show would have gotten the proper last season with all the fanfare and send off that it deserved. No matter how crappy it became it was still a quiet hit for the studio and network when it desperately needed one. To see it go out like this, is just sad. 

Welcome back.

And to all, on Monday night I will toast to our forum, and to our show: what was and what could have been.

[Annec]

Sorry, the reply above was meant for another posting.  Not sure how it got messed up.

[KaveDweller]

11 minutes ago, anoldfriend said:

Guys---this isn't a big mystery. What went down is about a twisty as a case of the week on our now over favorite show. 

Fillion and Katic haven't wanted to be in the same room together since season 6. This was a ticking time bomb. Cluster that with falling ratings (thanks Marlowe for killing your own show after its highest rated season) and a huge budget which equals a huge license fee that the network covers all over in these later years (industry standard) 

The studio wanted to keep the show anyway they could. Someone clearly thought if they at least could deliver Nathan it had a chance. The network didn't care enough to be clear about what they wanted. 

Don't waste your time deciding who is the culprit here. Stana had her foot out the door two years ago. Don't get it twisted, Nathan was more than happy to help her pack her shit, but she'a not quite the victim of sexism and bullying that the press made it sound like. 

Basically everything you have heard is true and a lie because of all of this about perception depending on the POV you are sitting from. 

Bottom line, has Paul Lee not been a bumbling fool, this show would have gotten the proper last season with all the fanfare and send off that it deserved. No matter how crappy it became it was still a quiet hit for the studio and network when it desperately needed one. To see it go out like this, is just sad. 

So you're saying Stana and Nathan are both normal people with both good and bad traits? The Internet will never believe anything that scandalous.

i really wonder how much better this season could have been if they knew it was the last season and weren't pushing Super Sleuth Alexis and Castle PI on us.

[CheshireCat]

6 minutes ago, Annec said:

The one thing Hawley and TPW were undoubtedly in control of was the writing and it was very weak this year.  They chose the focus on Castle's belief in the supernatural for way too many episodes. 

I'm wondering if they didn't really grasp what it was that made Castle funny and went into the wrong direction. They were talking about how they wanted to/would bring back the feeling of early episodes but it wasn't Castle's belief in the supernatural which made those episodes funny or his jokes/goofiness. It wasn't that it was done, it was how it was done. And somehow it felt as if they didn't get that.

[madmaverick]

Is that you, Hal? :P 

[371012]

Mad maverick: my thoughts exactly!,

[TWP]

Bah, reading his/her other post, I don't think that's Hal.

Edited May 13, 2016 by TWP

[MaryM47]

Thanks, Friend, for clearing out the fog and reminding us that most workplaces, glamorous and high-paying as they may be, can be difficult to navigate when personalities and agendas clash, as they so often do. We often want the world to be black and white, with a good guy and a bad guy so we know what side to root for and who to throw tomatoes at. While I do wish the 2 leads, and their characters, were still holding hands and skipping through the precinct, and that the writers had known when and how to wrap up this show in a way that honored the promise we saw in the first few seasons, I will always be happy that this show existed, and for all the great moments and people (present company included) that it brought into my life.

[madmaverick]

My pet theory is still that it was an on set romance ending badly that led to some unfortunate tension and messed up the friendship.  Wouldn't be the first pair of actors it happened to.  Of course it could be purely personality clash, but given that their personalities seemed to mesh so well in the first few years to the point where they'd hold hands and skip through the precinct for fun, I just find it unlikely you do a 180 from that to not wanting to be in the same room unless Something Happened.  And Nathan did slip in an interesting piece of advice to some 20 year olds in a recent Q&A when asked what he knew now that he wished he'd known when he was their age, and he said, "don't date the people you work with".  Not conclusive of anything of course, but it's a working theory.  Guess we'll never know unless friends in the know enlighten us. 

[TWP]

5 minutes ago, madmaverick said:

My pet theory is still that it was an on set romance ending badly that led to some unfortunate tension and messed up the friendship.  Wouldn't be the first pair of actors it happened to.  Of course it could be purely personality clash, but given that their personalities seemed to mesh so well in the first few years to the point where they'd hold hands and skip through the precinct for fun, I just find it unlikely you do a 180 from that to not wanting to be in the same room unless Something Happened.  And Nathan did slip in an interesting piece of advice to some 20 year olds in a recent Q&A when asked what he knew now that he wished he'd known when he was their age, and he said, "don't date the people you work with".  Not conclusive of anything of course, but it's a working theory.  Guess we'll never know unless friends in the know enlighten us. 

If so, it's too bad they couldn't be more like Kaley and Johnny. They dated for 2 years and are still seemingly friends.

[madmaverick]

SweetTooth, let's just agree to disagree on this.  We'll clearly never see eye to eye.  For me, it's not about whether rude, abusive, slanderous words are tweeted at a celebrity; it's that such words are tweeted at anyone, period.  It's poor form, bad behaviour, violates the code of conduct on twitter, and there's no excuse for adults to behave that way.  That's on them and they are accountable for it, regardless of whether it had any impact on the recipient of their ill conceived tweets.

I have no wish to drag in any more mud from twitter but there were plenty of 'fans' who were indeed hoping that people lost their jobs and are even now rejoicing in their unemployment.  Just because they can join Stana, you see. ;)

I'm just tired of people being shitty beings on the internet, and even bragging about it, because they are hiding behind a computer. 

[westwingfan]

Sneak Peek 2

[verdana]

Sorry but I can't get excited about Locksat at this point and how much SUPER DANGER they're in after such a long period of inactivity. 

Oh and how I laughed at her reassurance that she's in one of the safest places in the city, yeah right it's about as secure as the loft with all the people able to come and go at will. 3XK had a ball coming and going from there.

"Nothing is going to happen to me whilst I'm here!" Sigh....

Edited May 13, 2016 by verdana

[MaryM47]

Were any sneak peeks released before the cancellation? If so, are they different from ones released afterwards? And will ABC promo the heck out of a series finale, or just run away with their tail between their legs? And I didn't realized how much Alexis is riding my last nerve these days, so I'm probably reading too much into this, but that eyeroll of hers during that cutaway to her when Kate and Richard say I love you just bugs me. 

[TWP]

It's weird. I don't care about the sneak peek.  I'll find out how the show ends on the internet and probably save the two episodes I haven't watched until there's nothing else on.  If it's not going on from here, I don't really care how it ends. SMH

Edited May 13, 2016 by TWP

[verdana]

Is sneak peek one on here? Oh well here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpeEWD_W5hI&feature=youtu.be

Oh god this is really silly and stupid I just want to laugh, the dialogue is so bad lol.

And why doesn't Castle doesn't immediately cotton on to the fact he's going to be using a truth serum not conventional torture techniques, seems obvious that's where it's going. 

I can't believe Hawley and Winter were paid to write this crud. I'm not remotely excited watching any of it. I hope this isn't going to take up 95% of the episode leaving about 5% for any semi decent Caskett moments but that's probably exactly what will happen.  

Edited May 13, 2016 by verdana

[KaveDweller]

22 minutes ago, MaryM47 said:

Were any sneak peeks released before the cancellation? If so, are they different from ones released afterwards? And will ABC promo the heck out of a series finale, or just run away with their tail between their legs? And I didn't realized how much Alexis is riding my last nerve these days, so I'm probably reading too much into this, but that eyeroll of hers during that cutaway to her when Kate and Richard say I love you just bugs me. 

Yeah, it bugs me too. I don't know when, but at some point everything Alexis did started annoying me. I hope that she doesn't have too much screentime in the finale.

That's the I love you exchange from the promo, but apparently it didn't go with the video footage we saw there.

[IzeOfLight]

I'm kind of surprised no one's brought up NF's tweets:

Quote

Dear Fans, In whatever project I do next, loudly notice how unlike Castle and fresh and versatile I am. Thanks.

Is he throwing shade on Castle's writers? (admittedly, everyone else here does ;)) Saying his character was stale and one-dimensional? Interesting . . . 

[madmaverick]

10 minutes ago, IzeOfLight said:

I'm kind of surprised no one's brought up NF's tweets:

Is he throwing shade on Castle's writers? (admittedly, everyone else here does ;)) Saying his character was stale and one-dimensional? Interesting . . . 

He's clearly joking to me and poking fun at himself about his fear of being typecast after having played Castle for so long.  It's his usual sense of humour.  I detect no shade from him whatsoever.  He followed his sincere thank you tweet with some typically humourous ones.  Honestly, I'm astounded that some (not referring to anyone here) are finding fault and offence in even these tweets of his.  The humour was very clear to me and I don't even find everything he tweets funny.

Edited May 13, 2016 by madmaverick

[K.M.]

3 minutes ago, IzeOfLight said:

I'm kind of surprised no one's brought up NF's tweets:

Is he throwing shade on Castle's writers? (admittedly, everyone else here does ;)) Saying his character was stale and one-dimensional? Interesting . . . 

No, I think he's desperately hoping not to be typecast, which is always a likely problem for an actor who has played a high-profile character for many years. Coming off being a lead character in a major show usually goes one of two ways: you either get something else high profile right away, for instance a juicy movie role, or you get nothing but bit parts and essentially vanish from the mainstream view until casting directors think enough time has passed and everyone's forgotten your previous role enough to believe you can play something else.

[roamyn]

Maybe they can do a spinoff with !SuperAlexis! moving to Chicago and joining !SuperDawson! in a new business venture where they take on sll sorts of corporate screw ups and save the businesses from going under.

All while fighting fires and solving PI cases on the side.

[Thak]

3 hours ago, anoldfriend said:

Guys---this isn't a big mystery. What went down is about as twisty as a case of the week on our now over favorite show. 

Fillion and Katic haven't wanted to be in the same room together since season 6. This was a ticking time bomb. Cluster that with falling ratings (thanks Marlowe for killing your own show after its highest rated season) and a huge budget which equals a huge license fee that the network covers all of in these later years (industry standard) 

The studio wanted to keep the show any way they could. Someone clearly thought if they at least delivered Nathan, it had a chance. The network didn't care enough to be clear about what they wanted. 

Don't waste your time deciding who is the culprit here. Stana had her foot out the door two years ago. Don't get it twisted, Nathan was more than happy to help her pack her shit, but she's not quite the victim of sexism and bullying that the press made it sound like. 

Basically everything you have heard is true and a lie because of all of this about perception depending on the POV you are sitting from. 

Bottom line, had Paul Lee not been a bumbling fool, this show would have gotten the proper last season with all the fanfare and send off that it deserved. No matter how crappy it became it was still a quiet hit for the studio and network when it desperately needed one. To see it go out like this, is just sad. 

A little bias there, like everyone, but putting this so called insiders info together with other insiders such as Castor Pollock, Lynette Wich, and others on twitter such as Avi Quijada, who works in the business and appears to know some cast and crew behind Castle, the picture that possibly comes into focus is the one I've suspected for awhile.

The two actors have had disagreements, personality clashes that each are guilty of,  but the difference is one was able to remain professional and the other one got petty, held a grudge and caused the tension to escalate on set to the point of it becoming unbearable for his co-star, and possibly the studio.

Avi Quijada has a stream of tweets, and this tweet is one in the stream.   She was speaking to the importance of having the whole story and not just the aftermath.

Avi Quijada ‏@AviQuijada May 9

The whole story. Not what the aftermath was after one party reacted to the other's childish attitude.

0 retweets 0 likes

[CheshireCat]

7 minutes ago, Thak said:

 

The two actors have had disagreements, personality clashes that each are guilty of,  but the difference is one was able to remain professional and the other one got petty, held a grudge and caused the tension to escalate on set to the point of it becoming unbearable for his co-star, and possibly the studio.

 

Maybe so. But again, that's just an assumption based on information we don't know the context of and something I don't think we can judge without knowing what exactly went down and without knowing the reason for their respective reactions. Everyone has a motive for how they react. Sometimes it may be because they're childish, at other times, it's not. But unless we know, I don't think we can or have a right to pass judgement.

Edited May 13, 2016 by CheshireCat

[Noggin]

3 hours ago, madmaverick said:

My pet theory is still that it was an on set romance ending badly that led to some unfortunate tension and messed up the friendship.  Wouldn't be the first pair of actors it happened to.  Of course it could be purely personality clash, but given that their personalities seemed to mesh so well in the first few years to the point where they'd hold hands and skip through the precinct for fun, I just find it unlikely you do a 180 from that to not wanting to be in the same room unless Something Happened.  And Nathan did slip in an interesting piece of advice to some 20 year olds in a recent Q&A when asked what he knew now that he wished he'd known when he was their age, and he said, "don't date the people you work with".  Not conclusive of anything of course, but it's a working theory.  Guess we'll never know unless friends in the know enlighten us. 

I can't see a romance myself, more of a personality clash. They started out as mentor and apprentice but then Stana's star started rising as she gained confidence and didn't need the 'master' anymore leading to unpleasantness. However that the studio would go for a shortened working week and even a rumoured shorter interaction time for the leads is beyond belief and something that should never have happened, you can't operate like that for long and shouldn't have to at all.

[KaveDweller]

42 minutes ago, IzeOfLight said:

I'm kind of surprised no one's brought up NF's tweets:

Is he throwing shade on Castle's writers? (admittedly, everyone else here does ;)) Saying his character was stale and one-dimensional? Interesting . . . 

I don't think he was saying that Castle wasn't fresh and versatile I think he was just saying that he's not like Castle (and therefore a good actor). Not that Castle was stale and one-dimensional but he isn't. 

Nathan definitely has a certain sense of humor, one that most people either really like or really hate.

2 minutes ago, Noggin said:

I can't see a romance myself, more of a personality clash. They started out as mentor and apprentice but then Stana's star started rising as she gained confidence and didn't need the 'master' anymore leading to unpleasantness. However that the studio would go for a shortened working week and even a rumoured shorter interaction time for the leads is beyond belief and something that should never have happened, you can't operate like that for long and shouldn't have to at all.

I kind of buy the romance story just because that's the only thing that explains why they went from seeming to get along so well in the early seasons to not being able to talk to each other out of character. That's not just a personality clash or ego, that is fallout from some kind of incident. I know they stopped giving interviews together in season 4, but I actually think whatever happened was in season 6. They still looked friendly enough in bloopers and bts photos in seasons 4 and 5.

[anoldfriend]

2 hours ago, Thak said:

A little bias there, like everyone, but putting this so called insiders info together with other insiders such as Castor Pollock, Lynette Wich, and others on twitter such as Avi Quijada, who works in the business and appears to know some cast and crew behind Castle, the picture that possibly comes into focus is the one I've suspected for awhile.

The two actors have had disagreements, personality clashes that each are guilty of,  but the difference is one was able to remain professional and the other one got petty, held a grudge and caused the tension to escalate on set to the point of it becoming unbearable for his co-star, and possibly the studio.

Avi Quijada has a stream of tweets, and this tweet is one in the stream.   She was speaking to the importance of having the whole story and not just the aftermath.

Avi Quijada ‏@AviQuijada May 9

The whole story. Not what the aftermath was after one party reacted to the other's childish attitude.

0 retweets 0 likes

Edited May 14, 2016 by anoldfriend

[Noggin]

8 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

I don't think he was saying that Castle wasn't fresh and versatile I think he was just saying that he's not like Castle (and therefore a good actor). Not that Castle was stale and one-dimensional but he isn't. 

Nathan definitely has a certain sense of humor, one that most people either really like or really hate.

I kind of buy the romance story just because that's the only thing that explains why they went from seeming to get along so well in the early seasons to not being able to talk to each other out of character. That's not just a personality clash or ego, that is fallout from some kind of incident. I know they stopped giving interviews together in season 4, but I actually think whatever happened was in season 6. They still looked friendly enough in bloopers and bts photos in seasons 4 and 5.

I'm not convinced, Stana was with Kris through all of this period, the 'love of her life', now an unrequited romance I could possibly see but I still lean towards the personality, jealousy or ego issue, but in the end we'll never know and now it matters little really in light of the recent cancellation.

[Thak]

9 minutes ago, Noggin said:

I can't see a romance myself, more of a personality clash. They started out as mentor and apprentice but then Stana's star started rising as she gained confidence and didn't need the 'master' anymore leading to unpleasantness. However that the studio would go for a shortened working week and even a rumoured shorter interaction time for the leads is beyond belief and something that should never have happened, you can't operate like that for long and shouldn't have to at all.

Agree.  The limited interaction was reported as being Nathan's demand, not Stana's.  We even have her stating she had no issues with Nathan.  She also stated in an interview recently that she wasn't friends with Nathan outside the show, he was just a very good colleague.  She always appeared to be keeping things professional. 

CheshireCat  -  just giving my opinion on BTS like others have, people are giving opinions based on all kinds of observations and so called inside info.  Also don't think there was any romance.