S08.E04: Zoey's Birthday Party

[Honey]

I also believe it is ingrained.  I was also extremely orderly as a very young child.  I took very good care of my books, toys and all of my things.  Many of which I still have to this day.  No rips or writing on the pages of the books, and no pieces missing from the games or puzzles.  My daughter is completely the opposite.  No amount of teaching or nagging could get her to care for her stuff.  It drove me nuts!!

[watcherwoman]

I think he gets away with so much because if he has a meltdown, they can not physically remove him as easily as average sized parent's. I think he probably has some major meltdowns when they do refuse the food. I think one of the worst things Bill and Jen did was to emphasize and laugh about his food obsession and further that with the hashtag "cakecakecake". That to me demonstrated they just don't get it.

 

 

 

See I guess I don't see the instinct at all.

That's okay, we all see things differently.

[watcherwoman]

I disagree with the idea of reality TV with children to be benign in way, shape or form. These aren't home movies. Coupled with the show, Jen instagrams and tweets about the kids too. They have zero privacy, compared to Mom and Dad posting something on a private facebook page is entirely different than what Will and Zoey will have to look back on. And just because social media is out there, does not make invading a child's privacy is ok.

 

Can you imagine of you filmed your kids pediatrician  appointments at whatever age and broadcasted it over the internet many years later, without their permission? Oy! No way!

Well they did have an episode last season in a restaurant with Grandma and Will's poopy diaper. It was probably one year ago, give or take. Now we are seeing his waist band frequently of a pull up or diaper or training underwear that is SO obvious.

That's okay, we can disagree.  I see nothing wrong with showing Will and Zoey's pediatrician appts.   I also see nothing wrong with poopy diapers on children, or on adults who need to wear them either.  If someone has a problem with diapers on anyone who needs them, that says more about the people who make a big deal about it, than it does the person who is wearing the diaper.  There are bigger things to worry about, and it's small potatoes to me.

[Absolom]

Ratings for this episode: 1.652 M viewers and a .45 rating.

[mbutterfly]

Ratings for this episode: 1.652 M viewers and a .45 rating.

I've kind of lost track, Absolom, how does that compare, generally, to the popular TLC shows?

[Absolom]

It's about the typical area for TLC normal popular shows in December.  Good would be over 2 M. 

[gunderda]

I'm sure Will knows that when the camera people are around he can get away with a lot more and test the boundaries even more than normal.  Kids are pretty smart like that. 

[ButterQueen]

I loved this episode -- what a great party!

I make lists too. Just to be ready for Christmas, I had several. Groceries to buy, presents to be wrapped, change sheets on beds to Christmas flannels, menus for Christmas dinner, breakfast and lunches, wine, beer and champagne to serve, make up both cribs, etc. I need to cross things off or I feel lost. My drawers on the other hand.....well, nevermind. : ))

I cringe reading so many food comments and I definitely am against the idea of giving Will all of his daily food in the morning and letting him be hungry if eaten too early. In my opinion, that's an eating disorder in the making. My two year old granddaughter runs the gamut with eating; some days she grazes, some days she eats just her 3 meals, and some days she eats very little. My daughter goes with the flow and the pediatrician says she's perfectly healthy. I think Will is normal in his eating habits and I agree with the notion that we see them eating a lot because it's usually a calm time that they are both together. I have great conversations with my granddaughter over meals.

Zoey and Will are very lucky kids and I can see they love their mom and dad a lot. If the size of their house makes them materialistic, well....I am too. : ))

[BruceFan]

I fear as they get older we will see the physical and intellectual limitations played out on TV and that makes me cringe. I don't how one can say they are good, responsible parents when they have a show on TLC. Those 2 things just don't line up for me.

 

 

What intellectual limitations?  

[Honey]

What intellectual limitations?  

Yeah.  Did I miss something?

[ZoloftBlob]

What intellectual limitations?

 

Unknown as yet but Will is four and a half/maybe five in these episodes and coming from a background of severe malnutrition and illness. He's well behind the curve in speaking and in social interaction, and doesn't appear to be out of diapers. The mods have asked us not to speculate, so that's where I will leave it.

[CousinAmy]

I don't think they've let us see enough to know. For example, we know he likes anything with wheels - which is so typical for a boy from ages 2 - 5, but does he make a ramp out of blocks and try to roll a truck down it? Does he have the ability to pretend he's driving a fire truck - rushing to save someone instead of just rolling the truck randomly? Can he transfer his love of things with wheels to books about things with wheels? 

 

Maybe he can line his trucks up, even count them, but can he sort them into categories - cars, trucks, buses, etc? Does he put "people" figures into the trucks and create stories around them? 

 

I'm not a big fan of the block/truck area (I'm more towards books, puzzles and art) but sometimes I'll pull over a low chair (I can't get on the floor either!) and listen in on the activity. One boy was just rolling a fire engine around, and I asked him what the ladder was for. He didn't seem to have any idea, but when I took a little figure and placed it on a shelf and called, "Help, help" in a tiny voice, he realized that the ladder was used to rescue the person. 

 

Those are some of the intellectual abilities you'd expect a child of that age to have. As I said, they don't show enough of his actual playtime to see if he does. 

[wrestlesflamingos]

One of the reasons we get uncomfortable with speculating about children is that the children will be able to read very soon. They will likely be savvier than their parents about the internet, they will stumble on all of this stuff. It's heartbreaking to think of Will or Zoey reading a stranger casually wonder if they are slow or unable to do something. 

 

Think of that what you will, this isn't an official note.

[NausetGirl]

One of the reasons we get uncomfortable with speculating about children is that the children will be able to read very soon. They will likely be savvier than their parents about the internet, they will stumble on all of this stuff. It's heartbreaking to think of Will or Zoey reading a stranger casually wonder if they are slow or unable to do something. 

 

Think of that what you will, this isn't an official note.

 

Sadly, this is probably true. Maybe the guideline should be - comments are allowed only on those who actually CHOSE to put themselves and their lives on TV.

 

Edited to add - As much as I enjoy commenting and reading about both Will and Zoey, I believe it would be very detrimental for them to eventually access a lot of the material here regarding them.  But as auntl stated perfectly, this is the position their parents have put them in.

Edited January 2, 2015 by NausetGirl

[ZoloftBlob]

Maybe the guideline should be - comments are allowed only on those who actually CHOSE to put themselves and their lives on TV.

 

Ah, but see - and this gets a lil "board on boards" as we used to say - to be fair that would mean no discussion of Will and Zoey at all. No "I love these little ones!". 

 

Personally (and just my opinion) while I censor myself because of the age of these particular children, my cynical side notes Mommy and Daddy are getting a paycheck for this which shows how little they care about protecting their own kids. This isn't an unknown genre, reality tv has been around a while now and adults know what they are signing their kids up for. And what they are getting paychecks for. The history is out there for any person being offered a reality show to see - there's always going to be criticism. And some won't be kind at all I am currently watching a conversation on a different board where the youngest Roloff child is literally being called possessed by Satan. His parents get paid for that and the money is clearly good enough that they are *still* milking their 15 minutes of fame.

 

Bill and Jen know where this goes.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

 

Bill and Jen know where this goes.

 

Agreed and yes they do!  

 

I think they will continue to "make hay while the sun shines" for the financial rewards and building their brand.  Will and Zoey are the #1 reason viewers tune in! There would not be a show now without them so their future on television is bright!  

 

It is the parents who have and will continue to have the responsibility for either a positive or a negative outcome.  Right now all the kids know is positive.

[Jellybeans]

Will may not have shown us any freeways he built but he can sure drive a car! :-)

[NausetGirl]

I also try to censor myself for Will and Zoey's sake. However, I don't think that the general pubic has more of an obligation to protect Will and Zoey than their parents. Bill and Jen are very intelligent people. They must feel that they can deal with the fallout that results from their decisions.

ETA: It is not a decision that I would make for my children.

 

Agree - I hope Bill & Jen have a solid plan in place for the time when Will & Zoey are able to access their episodes and the Internet in general. It's really difficult to believe they could be unaware of the potential problems ahead. Hopefully it will not be another instance of people - even those with the very best of intentions - misjudging a situation in which they've never found themselves before.

[CousinAmy]

I just Googled "the Little Couple" and 388,000,000 hits came up. The odds of the children accessing this website are pretty minimal. 

[NausetGirl]

I just Googled "the Little Couple" and 388,000,000 hits came up. The odds of the children accessing this website are pretty minimal. 

 

Good to know, and I sincerely hope you're right. Unfortunately this forum was at the top of page 3 when I did the same thing.

Edited January 3, 2015 by NausetGirl

[Chai]

I don't know if anyone else noticed but, having a chronic illness and taking pain meds on occasion, I am thinking during the individual interview scenes Bill has already had his surgery because his eyes show clearly a high edge to them. IJS. And on the toilet In the garage, I don't think it's connected for those of you that would hold it..lol. I can't see Jen allowing that to be used as a bathroom anyway, let's be serious.

Thank you! I was trying to figure out what was wrong with his eyes...

[eributterfly]

I'm not very knowledgeable about such. What did you see in his eyes? I'm just curious. I do know some people who take meds for chronic pain, but I've never noticed anything about their eyes. TIA

It's more of a glazed over look. The eyes barely open and rather squinted. Before my orthopedic surgery on my knees I was given pain meds leading up to the surgery, this may have been the case with Bill and maybe even explain why he was choosing to wear glasses as well. Also his speech is a tad slower, not really slurred but just really chilled.

[eributterfly]

Will certainly is more...willful, but still in all, just barely out of toddlerhood so the defiance bits are par for the course. 

 

I will say that I think that the constant presence of the film crew can't foster an environment where Will can be disciplined consistently and learn healthy boundaries.  I mean, forget the audience at home, having to do time-outs in front of a whole crew watching and filming?  That would probably be really humiliating for a young boy.  And nowadays, you can't even publicly tap your child on the rear or the hand without someone taking offense to it.  In the instance of Goldfish-gate, I can see Jen also not wanting to perceived by the viewers as a stressed/overwhelmed/meanie mom by taking the snacks away from Will, although she probably should have.  You know, always gotta be aware of the cameras!  That's the downside of rearing the children on camera--they don't have a lot of privacy and they can't/won't allow themselves to make disciplinary (among other) mistakes for the world to see.  IMO, they don't have the luxury of having alone time to grow as a family and growing as well-rounded parents.  I can see food being used as a bribe to keep the kids content and even "up".

 

I saw the promos for the new season of Kate Plus 8.  One of the 14 year-old walks away from Kate in disgust and Kate flashes a "Great, she hates me again, I failed" look at the camera.  I don't think the Arnold-Kleins won't descend that far, though--I can see them bowing out gracefully and instead using their platform for other endeavors.

I would think at some point if Will or Zoey is acting out, Jen or Bill can choose to walk away from the cameras and address the issue right then. They are consulting producers, maybe that falls within their power. I think, especially Jen, there is concern as to how they come across on camera when disciplining the kids, it can get out of hand quickly and they may not have time to think about the backlash that they may get from viewers.

[NikSac]

It's more of a glazed over look. The eyes barely open and rather squinted. Before my orthopedic surgery on my knees I was given pain meds leading up to the surgery, this may have been the case with Bill and maybe even explain why he was choosing to wear glasses as well. Also his speech is a tad slower, not really slurred but just really chilled.

 

I had that same look and sound when I was on some pretty heavy painkillers after a severe leg break. It was weird because I thought I looked and sounded normal, didn't feel 'high' or anything, but when I returned back to work about 5.5 months later I went to re-record my outgoing voicemail and realized just how out of it I sounded on the earlier message I had recorded letting people know I'd be out for an extended period of time. I imagine Bill's the same way - he probably feels fairly normal, but you can still see it in his eyes and hear it in his voice a bit.

[mbutterfly]

Jen said that organizing a closet is as much fun as sitting and having a glass of wine. If she honestly believes that, I think she is crazy.

I enjoy both. I even enjoy doing both together (well, not the sitting part).

[Foghorn Leghorn]

I had that same look and sound when I was on some pretty heavy painkillers after a severe leg break. It was weird because I thought I looked and sounded normal, didn't feel 'high' or anything, but when I returned back to work about 5.5 months later I went to re-record my outgoing voicemail and realized just how out of it I sounded on the earlier message I had recorded letting people know I'd be out for an extended period of time. I imagine Bill's the same way - he probably feels fairly normal, but you can still see it in his eyes and hear it in his voice a bit.

 

My ex was addicted to opiates and I sure know that look!  The eyes, lack of expression and color in the face, methodical almost parched speech, insomnia and being robotic and detached.  

Edited January 24, 2015 by Foghorn Leghorn

[NikSac]

My ex was addicted to opiates and I sure know that look!  The eyes, lack of expression and color in the face, methodical almost parched speech, insomnia and being robotic and detached.  

 

Ugh I'm so sorry you had to deal with that!  Thankfully I didn't get addicted to them since I tapered them as fast as I could when the pain decreased then switched to ibuprofen for awhile. Hopefully Bill can do the same or similar. It's one thing to take them for fun, but I feel awful for people who end up hooked on them after injuries, surgery, etc. With Jen's medical background I imagine she'll encourage him to get off of them as fast as he reasonably can (if that hasn't happened already - I'm not sure how far 'behind' the show is compared to real time).