TCM: The Greatest Movie Channel

[Padma]

Well it's my turn for a "5 list" this week. Not sure how this will go, or even what to call it. Maybe "Cynicism Light". These are films that I like that take a rather jaundiced view of some aspect of humanity (All About Eve was a definite contender--but oh! that awful "Woman Speech" that Margo gives Karen! Otherwise, I love that film and its the one that made me first notice, and then avidly follow, the films of Joseph Mankiewicz. And what performances from Saunders, Davis, Ritter and even in a small role, Monroe, because you see the talent in what could have been a "nothing" part.)

But I digress because AAE was just inched out of my Top 5. But it has the kind of tone of cynicism I'm going for here, but not to the point where I, as a viewer, leave feeling completely depressed.  So, common element here are kind of cynicism/irony and something that redeems it from being unbearably dark. (Humor would be a good element for that, but some satirical films with humor--like "Strangelove" or "MASH", or "The Front" were, like AAE, edged out by others that, for the most part, unfortunately, don't have it.)  I guess these could also include "Cynicism-not-so-Light" (i.e. this "category" isn't very well defined at all, lol).

So, my five:

Hotel Rwanda--genocide that killed a million people isn't going to be "light" in any sense. But since this is a true story, focusing on the efforts of one courageous man and his success in saving over 1200 refugees, it turns out to a powerful film about the good in people not only the evil (including the evil of apathy).  I prefer this to the similarly themed, but more widely acclaimed, "Schindler's List".

Ace in the Hole-- A recent favorite, thanks to recommendations from people here. Billy Wilder is a master of "cynicism light(ish)" and here shows the moral corruption of an ambitious reporter without scruples and how he manipulates a gullible public and how it all evolves badly.  Surely one of the darkest BW films

Planet of the Apes--This (the 1968 original)  is very different from the Pierre Boulle novel, but remains one of my favorite sci-fi films.  I've seen it many times and am never bored by its satirical take on humanity in the role reversals of mankind and apes.

Elmer Gantry -- I hope people still are reading Sinclair Lewis, but if not, at least there is this excellent film that hits a lot of his themes (and would never be made today, although its more relevant than ever imo). It's about a morally compromised, hypocritical huckster/preacher--a con man who uses his charisma to exploit his gullible followers. Lots of hypocrisy and irony in this one (and one of my favorite Burt Lancaster performances--he won an Oscar for it as did Shirley Jones for her performance as a prostitute).

All that Jazz -- This is very narrowly focused cynicism, as Bob Fosse takes an ascerbic look at a man much like himself--a driven, self-centered, brilliantly talented workaholic who pushes himself into an early grave (with the added irony that his death can make back money for his producers).  And Roy Scheider as "Joe Gideon" is another great performance.

[prican58]

1 hour ago, Milburn Stone said:

I don't think you would have liked the result. When you take a film shot in standard non-widescreen dimension, and show it in wide-screen, the results are necessarily one of these two: 1) Everything is taffy-pulled horizontally, so that (for instance) skinny people become fat people; or 2) The tops and bottoms of the image are cut off. A Singin' in the Rain without heads and feet would be no one's idea of a good time.

I wasn't saying that it should have been shown in widescreen after the fact merely that I wished it had been made that way originally. But that's just me.

Padma, I would love to see Elmer Gantry on the big screen. I'd like to see Burt larger than life.

[Milburn Stone]

51 minutes ago, prican58 said:

I wasn't saying that it should have been shown in widescreen after the fact merely that I wished it had been made that way originally. But that's just me.

Oh. I definitely misunderstood you.

[Padma]

1 hour ago, prican58 said:

I wasn't saying that it should have been shown in widescreen after the fact merely that I wished it had been made that way originally. But that's just me.

Padma, I would love to see Elmer Gantry on the big screen. I'd like to see Burt larger than life.

Yes, me, too. :) Now that you mention it, I wish I'd thought of that "added enticement" when they were showing "From Here to Eternity" in theaters a couple of months ago.  I think I see in Burt what some see in Marlon Brando (and what I've never seen in Brando--plus, most of the time, I don't even like his acting.  I can't remember anything that I haven't liked B.L. in....)

Edited January 16, 2017 by Padma

[ratgirlagogo]

3 hours ago, Padma said:

I hope people still are reading Sinclair Lewis,

Well, a lot of my library patrons are asking for It Can't Happen Here, given present circumstances.  

[Sharpie66]

Quote

And Roy Scheider as "Joe Gideon" is another great performance.

"Folks, let me lay on you, a so-so entertainer, not much of a humanitarian, and this cat was never nobody's friend. In his final appearance on the Great Stage of Life--uh, you can applaud if you wanna--Mr. Joe Gideon!"

I have seen this movie way too much, since I knew that from memory. Scheider is amazing in this role!

[Browncoat]

I should have specified that I meant the four leads for Singin' In The Rain.  Rita looks great!

[Milburn Stone]

Someone ( @Rinaldo ?) remarked upthread that Gene Kelly wanted a more experienced dancer for Kathy Selden--someone like Cyd Charisse or Vera-Ellen, maybe? Anyway, Debbie's death caused me to think about SitR again (obviously), and I realized just how much that movie would be missing without her. It's not just that it brought Debbie her big break, although of course it did--it's that she brought it a freshness, youth and vivacity that I can hardly imagine coming from anyone else. Of all the elements that make that movie great, she was definitely one. (Just as one microcosm, try to imagine the scene in which Don Lockwood falls into Kathy Selden's car, and she feigns ignorance and nonchalance, playing as well with any other partner.)

A week ago Thursday I was in LA visiting friends, and in late afternoon was driving up Coldwater Canyon from the LA side (the friends live in Studio City) when by complete happenstance I drove by the Carrie Fisher-Debbie Reynolds compound. (I had no idea they lived there.) The left side of the street was solid news vans, with paparazzi and cameramen outside the vans, all training their lenses on the house on the right side. The gates of the house were open, and the driveway was filled with security guys in their black suits, white shirts and black ties. Only when I reached my movie-biz friends in the Valley did I learn what I'd just witnessed--the scene of the memorial service for Debbie and Carrie going on inside the house as I drove by. I had plenty of time to look because the traffic was moving so slowly, thanks to gawkers who knew what they were looking at. Even though I was just a gawker (and only learned retroactively what I was gawking at), it made me feel more connected to them.

[Inquisitionist]

1 minute ago, Milburn Stone said:

Even though I was just a gawker (and only learned retroactively what I was gawking at), it made me feel more connected to them.

Wow.

[Charlie Baker]

What @INQUISITIONIST said.  Thank you for sharing that, @Milburn Stone

[Milburn Stone]

1 hour ago, Charlie Baker said:

What @INQUISITIONIST said.  Thank you for sharing that, @Milburn Stone

You're welcome. To set the scene a little better (for those unfamiliar with that area), the houses in Coldwater Canyon aren't particularly "grand" or set back from the street very far. And the street is just one winding lane in each direction. The houses are mostly mid-century one-level bungalows, I suppose would be the word for them, although some are exquisitely kept up. Also, while they appear modest from the street, you have no idea how far back they go or how much property they have behind them--I'm sure some have a goodly amount of square footage. But suffice it to say the Fisher-Reynolds property is quite accessible (to the eye) from the street. That enhanced my sense of connection with the event.

[Padma]

22 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

Well, a lot of my library patrons are asking for It Can't Happen Here, given present circumstances.  

I'm so glad to hear that people are still reading Lewis  Lie ICHH ("inspired" by demagogue Huey Long) shows, he's still very relevant

21 hours ago, Sharpie66 said:

"Folks, let me lay on you, a so-so entertainer, not much of a humanitarian, and this cat was never nobody's friend. In his final appearance on the Great Stage of Life--uh, you can applaud if you wanna--Mr. Joe Gideon!"

I have seen this movie way too much, since I knew that from memory. Scheider is amazing in this role!

Great quote and really gives that "cynicism light(ish)" flavor of this (sorta) category Plus, reading it, I was remembering how Ben Vereen did it    Plus, if there's anyone (maybe lurking) who's never seen it  (came out in 1979 after all), it's got a lot of good music and choreography It won't be everyone's taste in those, or in the story (I have a friend who's still put off by what he sees as Bob Fosse's "conceit" Obviously, I disagree, but love it or hate it, its a great film)

[SeanC]

The Learning Tree (1969): Screening on TCM for Martin Luther King Day, this was the first Hollywood film directed by a black filmmaker -- Gordon Parks, here adapting his own semi-autobiographical novel (I assume the 'semi' part is because he wasn't the sole witness to a murder with racial implications in real life). Set in rural Kansas in the 1920s, the film stars Kyle Johnson, the son of original Star Trek star Nichelle Nichols. There are some powerful scenes, and there's an inherent novelty to films from perspectives like this, since we don't get a lot of them even now; but it's no overlooked classic either, the narrative kind of drifts around. In an era when police brutality is perennially in the news, there's some fairly relevant stuff here too, and its take is fairly textured in that the film features bookending scenes of two young black men being shot by police. In neither case is the man innocent of crime, but the use of force is grossly disproportionate in both instances. The film doesn't require them to be angelic innocents. Parks would really shift gears for his sophomore directing effort: Shaft.

A Patch of Blue (1965): I watched this a number of years ago, but it was interesting to see it again. The story of Selina (Elizabeth Hartman), a blind eighteen-year-old who befriends Gordon (Sidney Poitier) while sitting in the park, not knowing that he's black. Selina lives in an almost cartoonishly abusive household (though households like this really exist) and hasn't been given any education, which the noble Gordon tries to help her out with, while they also start to fall for each other. As you'd expect in a mid-60s film where the idea of Poitier romancing a white woman is brought up, it's handled rather tamely, but in a lot of ways I think this works in the film's favour, because Selina is so unworldly ("sheltered" wouldn't be the right term here, given how hard her life has been). Gordon really seems more like a friend/guardian figure, which is what Selina really needs; rather paternalistic romances were a lot more common in films back then. So consider this a case where trying to be tame for audiences' sake maybe served them better in the long run.

[Crisopera]

I watched both The Palm Beach Story and All About Eve this weekend, and was reminded that Claudette Colbert was originally supposed to play Margo Channing, and, as iconic as Bette Davis has become in that role, I can hear Colbert's voice in some of the dialogue.

[Rinaldo]

I imagine that few if any of us would want to do without Davis's performance of Margo. But I've sometimes wished :) for a branching into an alternate reality where we could see the movie with Colbert. Even if all the lines remained unchanged, her look and her delivery would make it a delightfully different experience. 

[prican58]

On 1/15/2017 at 10:06 PM, Milburn Stone said:

Oh. I definitely misunderstood you.

Cheers, mate.

[prican58]

On 1/16/2017 at 11:55 AM, Inquisitionist said:

Wow.

Double wow!

I think casting Colbert would have been confusing a bit (a tiny bit, really) as I could see someone thinking Colbert & Baxter's characters were related b/c I think there is a bit of a resemblance beween them. Am I off base with that? I love that movie.

Watching Capt Blood.  Was there anything Flora Robson could not do? I love her more and more each time I watch her.

Edited January 17, 2017 by prican58

[elle]

1 hour ago, prican58 said:

Watching Capt Blood.  Was there anything Flora Robson could not do? I love her more and more each time I watch her.

If Flora is playing Elizabeth I, then the movie is The Sea Hawk, my favorite of the Flynn swashbucklers!  Flora also played Queen EI in Fire over England.

I agree that there was nothing she couldn't do, just take a look at the list of roles on imdb!

[prican58]

You are correct, elle. I feel very small.  If only I had bothered to read the movie info again. I wondered

 why I couldn't find Ross Alexander in this.

Ross is in Capt Blood, right?  

There is a trailer on for Fallen Angel with Dana Andrews and Alice Faye. Anybody seen this? So not used to Alice in a non musical. It's on Saturday, I think.

Edited January 18, 2017 by prican58

[Rinaldo]

I too adore Flora Robson. Her Elizabeth I in The Sea Hawk is one of the best for that much-portrayed monarch.

Other great onscreen performances by her (and I certainly haven't seen everything) are Ftatateeta in Caesar and Cleopatra, the Nurse in a beautiful 1950s film of Romeo and Juliet that never gets shown any more, and the Queen of Hearts in my favorite film of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. Like Estelle Winwood, Gladys Cooper, and Angela Lansbury, she rarely or never seemed to be cast as a conventional ingenue (always decidedly adult), so she seemed magically ageless over the decades.

[Crisopera]

Really, how great was Flora Robson?  I think the first time I saw her was in the 1939 Wuthering Heights, and became a fan.  The roles Rinaldo mentioned above are some of her very best.  I always think it's too bad that she and Anne Revere never played sisters - they look so much alike (to me).

prican58 - Fallen Angel is good, with a terrific performance by Linda Darnell in her bad girl/slut mode (and a collection of good character actors including one of my favorites, Charles Bickford).  Alice Faye is okay in it - acting wasn't really her strong point (singing, however, was). But she's fine.  Otto Preminger directs very atmospherically - it's one of his best movies (along with Laura, during the same period).

Edited January 18, 2017 by Crisopera

[Milburn Stone]

3 hours ago, Crisopera said:

Fallen Angel is good, with a terrific performance by Linda Darnell in her bad girl/slut mode...

Nobody did it better.

[Rinaldo]

3 hours ago, Crisopera said:

The roles Rinaldo mentioned above are some of her very best. 

One of the fun things about those three is that they're all classics that have been played by many actresses, so one can compare:

Ftatateeta: Of course there's only the one movie of Caesar and Cleopatra, but it's been done onstage for over a century now: I can't say who played her in the first British productions (probably their names would mean nothing now in any case), but Broadway portrayers include Helen Westley (Parthy Hawkes in the classic Show Boat film of the 1930s), Bertha Belmore (no clue), Pat Nye (with "the Oliviers"), and Novella Nelson -- not to mention Claudia McNeil in a notoriously failed musical version, Her First Roman.

Juliet's Nurse: Edna May Oliver, Rita Moreno (in guess which musical film), Pat Heywood, Thora Hird (TV), Celia Johnson (TV, BBC series), Esther Rolle, Barbara Bryne (TV), Miriam Margolyes.

The Queen of Hearts: May Robson, the voice of Pamela Brown, the voice of Verna Felton, Blanche Yurka (TV), Ronald Long (! TV), the voice of Zsa Zsa Gabor, Eve Arden (TV), Jayne Meadows, Miranda Richardson.

[bluepiano]

On ‎1‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 6:18 AM, Crisopera said:

LauraAnders, the problem I have with Saboteur is that the ingénue leads, Robert Cummings and Priscilla Lane, are so bland, which is unusual for Hitchcock.  Mind you, the often anthologized sequence on the Statue of Liberty is one of my favorites.

Norman Lloyd, who played the spy hanging from the Statue of Liberty in that scene, is still alive at 102, and has been interviewed by Robert Osborne on TCM.

Hitchcock also used Cummings in Dial M for Murder, so he must've liked him. I agree that he's a light weight, which for me was even more of a problem in Dial M. Hard to figure out what Grace Kelly is supposed to see in him.

But I actually do like Priscilla Lane, and thought she was pretty good in Saboteur. She also stars in one of my favorite somewhat unknown movies, Blues in the Night, an awkward but interesting mix of film noir, romantic drama and musical, with some amazing cinematography. It's shown on TCM from time to time.

Edited January 18, 2017 by bluepiano

[elle]

19 hours ago, prican58 said:

You are correct, elle. I feel very small.  If only I had bothered to read the movie info again. I wondered

 why I couldn't find Ross Alexander in this.

Ross is in Capt Blood, right?  

No need to feel small, prican58!  I had to look up Capt Blood to make sure Flora was not in it, couldn't trust memory!

Yes, Ross was in Capt Blood.  Sadly, he died very young.

1 hour ago, Rinaldo said:

Rita Moreno (in guess which musical film)

Wow, until I saw this I had not thought that "Anita" was the "Nurse" in that version of the story.  Always learn something here!

[Rinaldo]

3 minutes ago, elle said:

Wow, until I saw this I had not thought that "Anita" was the "Nurse" in that version of the story.  Always learn something here!

Well, admittedly it's borderline and one may well disagree; most of the time Anita is a character with no Shakespearean equivalent. But she's Juliet/Maria's one confidante in her own community, keeps quiet about it from fairly early on, knows of the night they spent together, and then changes her mind late in the story -- but the details (and I don't mean the updating/relocation) are all different.

[bluepiano]

8 hours ago, Crisopera said:

prican58 - Fallen Angel is good, with a terrific performance by Linda Darnell in her bad girl/slut mode (and a collection of good character actors including one of my favorites, Charles Bickford).  Alice Faye is okay in it - acting wasn't really her strong point (singing, however, was). But she's fine.  Otto Preminger directs very atmospherically - it's one of his best movies (along with Laura, during the same period).

I personally much prefer Fallen Angel to Laura, which has always seemed to me to be overrated, other than the memorable (and incessantly played) title song and the beauty of Gene Tierney. To me the whole brittle, upper crust New York milieu is overdone almost to the point of parody. In Angel I really like how the cynicism of Dana Andrew and the evil of the murder is juxtaposed against the sunny California small town atmosphere and the innocence of Alice Faye. Similar to what Hitchcock did in Shadow of a Doubt.

I also prefer Where the Sidewalk End, another Preminger film noir starring Dana Andrews (again) and reuniting him with Gene Tierney. Andrews' police detective character is almost an extension of his character from Laura, though even more intense. Preminger does a great job blending a few exterior shots of New York City with mostly stage sets in managing to create a powerful urban atmosphere.

For insomniacs, an interesting schedule late tonight on TCM. Two movies starring the comedy team of Wheeler and Woolsey, who were very popular in the '30s but now almost totally forgotten, and two 1930s dramas dealing with alcoholism. I'm interested in watching those, because we often hear that The Lost Weekend in 1945 was the first Hollywood movie to deal seriously with alcoholism.

(Of course there's tons of drinking and drunkenness in early Hollywood movies, but it's generally played for laughs, like in Topper. No one would call George and Marion Kirby alcoholics, even though they're killed because George is driving drunk, which we presume he did all the time).

Edited January 18, 2017 by bluepiano

[prican58]

I think it hard to match Laura. It holds a place for me because it was one of the films I first watched when discovering these movies. It totally killed me and I quickly developed my Gene Tierney crush as a result. (I had yet to see Leave Her to Heaven which really put me over the edge.)  Plus my folks had an LP of movie themes and I always loved "Laura" so hearing it in the film made me love it all the more.

Ross Alexander's life would make an interesting film/doc. Poor guy.

But I do love me some Dana Andrews and the trailer does look good. I am sure I'll like Fallen Angel.

Edited January 19, 2017 by prican58

[HelenBaby]

23 hours ago, prican58 said:

You are correct, elle. I feel very small.  If only I had bothered to read the movie info again. I wondered

 why I couldn't find Ross Alexander in this.

Ross is in Capt Blood, right?  

There is a trailer on for Fallen Angel with Dana Andrews and Alice Faye. Anybody seen this? So not used to Alice in a non musical. It's on Saturday, I think.

Alexander plays the guy who is eventually tied to some stakes and tortured for reasons I can't remember at the moment. Probably to rat on Blood but it's been a while since I saw that movie.

[Crisopera]

For some reason, I thought that the (vaguely remembered by me) song "Errol Flynn" by Amanda McBroom was about Ross Alexander, but looking it up just now, I see that it's about the actor David Bruce (McBroom's father).

[Charlie Baker]

Very interesting to see Damien Chazelle as guest programmer in the wake of La La Land's success.  And that he chose Jacques Demy's The Umbrellas of Cherbourg--a direct influence of his current movie.

I also was heartened by his pick of It's Always Fair Weather, which I've always felt was underrated.  It's entertaining and buoyant, but also has some toughness, darkness, and satire.  Plus probably the best, deepest performance of his career from Dan Dailey.

[Padma]

3 hours ago, Charlie Baker said:

Very interesting to see Damien Chazelle as guest programmer in the wake of La La Land's success.  And that he chose Jacques Demy's The Umbrellas of Cherbourg--a direct influence of his current movie.

I also was heartened by his pick of It's Always Fair Weather, which I've always felt was underrated.  It's entertaining and buoyant, but also has some toughness, darkness, and satire.  Plus probably the best, deepest performance of his career from Dan Dailey.

Not surprising, with my affection for cynicism in movies, I am a big fan of "It's Always Fair Weather". I find it a lot more interesting and less cartoonish than the more famous film that preceded it, "On the Town".  Plus, I will never forget the first time I saw it and saw Gene Kelly's dance on roller skates.  A real "wow, really?" moment that you don't often have after you've seen so many musicals already.

And interesting about Chazelle. I'm surprised none of the musical buffs here have commented on La La Land (I haven't seen it.  Seems from reading around that it will be disappointing--and yet, it's great to see a musical being made, including with intentionally old-fashioned elements to it, and I'd like to support it so I'm going to try to catch it before it leaves the theaters. Have you seen it?) 

Edited January 21, 2017 by Padma

[Charlie Baker]

I did see it and liked it, if not as much as the critics and award givers who are going mad for it. (I'll wager it'll hang on in theaters beyond the Oscars.) Well worth seeing in theaters, as it's in Cinemascope and has a strong visual style.  Emma Stone is wonderful. 

[Rinaldo]

54 minutes ago, Padma said:

Not surprising, with my affection for cynicism in movies, I am a big fan of It's Always Fair Weather. I find it a lot more interesting and less cartoonish than the more famous film that preceded it, On the Town.  Plus, I will never forget the first time I saw it and saw Gene Kelly's dance on roller skates.  A real "wow, really?" moment that you don't often have after seeing many musicals.

I'm a big fan of It's Always Fair Weather too. It's just such an odd and unexpected musical for MGM to have made, with its central premise that life can often be disappointing. I wouldn't prefer it to Bernstein's On the Town -- but of course that's not what got filmed. They threw out most of the score that makes the stage musical great, for which I consider the movie an abomination.

54 minutes ago, Padma said:

And interesting about Chazelle. I'm surprised none of the musical buffs here have commented on La La Land ....

That's because this topic isn't for current movies. There's a whole subforum for that, and there is indeed a topic for La La Land there. But since the question has been asked: Prepared to find it overpraised, I did see La La Land two weeks ago. I was right in my prediction, in a way (I could certainly poke holes if so inclined), and yet it was charming and entertaining enough that I had a good time anyway. The songs are good ones, and it was fun to spot the knowledgeable homages to musical-movie classics. I had not read any of Chazelle's statements beforehand, so I saw the opening number and thought "That's like Demoiselles de Rochefort!" all on my own. And honestly, that bit is an improvement! Much as they may have loved them, Demy & company really didn't "get" the premise of American musicals -- what spurs characters to sing or dance -- and therefore one of the memorable oddities of their work is how weirdly unmotivated everything is, with balletic leaps and energetic solfège for no reason. Chazelle and his choreographer Mandy Moore are miles ahead by comparison.

[Milburn Stone]

1 hour ago, Charlie Baker said:

...It's Always Fair Weather, which I've always felt was underrated.  It's entertaining and buoyant, but also has some toughness, darkness, and satire.  Plus probably the best, deepest performance of his career from Dan Dailey.

Add me to @Rinaldo in joining you in the It's Always Fair Weather Fan Club. Yet another thing I like about it (besides what's been mentioned) is the Andre Previn/Comden-Green score. Drives me crazy when I hear Previn given faint praise (like, he's a capable scorer and conductor, too bad his tunes are so pedestrian) when he's written so many songs of high quality for IAFW, Inside Daisy Clover, Two for the Seesaw, Irma La Douce, Coco, Paint Your Wagon (movie), The Good Companions, and other projects.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Milburn Stone

[Charlie Baker]

I apologize if I went too off-topic discussing La La Land--not my intention! :-)

[Rinaldo]

I confess that I don't think much of the songs in IAFW, so I guess I've just driven @Milburn Stone crazy again. I do attribute most of my reaction  to the Comden-Green lyrics, and I've been a grump about them here before, so I'll stop myself.

[Padma]

1 hour ago, Charlie Baker said:

I apologize if I went too off-topic discussing La La Land--not my intention! :-)

I think it was more my post actually that did that (seizing on the opening you created by mentioning a film that has been on TCM in relationship to it) and asking for actual comments about it. :) I'm unrepentant though, because I think sometimes we stray a little off-topic (TCM) and most of the times the mods indulge it and it turns out to be informative and interesting. Also, I thought it might be okay because La La Land is so often mentioned in the context of kind of "bringing back" the vibe of musicals from the past.

I'm glad to read what both you and Rinaldo thought of it. Despite the many positive reviews, I'd read just enough to have a bad feeling that I wouldn't like it, but now I feel more positive about seeing it. I think Rinaldo's comment above, re: La La Land v. Demoiselles de Rochefort keyed on something I was worrying about, "Much as they may have loved them, Demy & company really didn't "get" the premise of American musicals -- what spurs characters to sing or dance -- and therefore one of the memorable oddities of their work is how weirdly unmotivated everything is, with balletic leaps and energetic solfège for no reason. Chazelle and his choreographer Mandy Moore are miles ahead by comparison."

I'm actually reassured by both of your comments about LaLa Land because, unlike some people I know who've seen it, you are already familiar with musicals and would have a different framework for criticism/appreciation than the audience who doesn't (and for much of that familiarity--probably about 90% of it--for myself, I thank TCM. So, I got there after all--On Topic. :) ).

Edited January 21, 2017 by Padma

[ratgirlagogo]

2 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

 Much as they may have loved them, Demy & company really didn't "get" the premise of American musicals -- what spurs characters to sing or dance -- and therefore one of the memorable oddities of their work is how weirdly unmotivated everything is, with balletic leaps and energetic solfège for no reason

"Weirdly unmotivated!"  Love this comment.

Edited January 21, 2017 by ratgirlagogo

[Rinaldo]

For those who've never seen The Young Girls of Rochefort (TCM didn't put it On Demand) and wondered what I meant by "unmotivated balletic leaps" and "energetic solfège for no reason," here is a sample of the former

(VERY like the opening of La La Land, as I said), and here is the latter:

In the former you can see George Chakiris (it's his one big movie chance after getting to play Bernardo in West Side Story), and the latter has young Catherine Deneuve and her real-life sister Françoise Dorleac (fresh from her big starring role in That Man from Rio, and soon to die in an automobile accident), playing twins. With dubbed singing voices, of course, courtesy of the Swingle Singers.

3 minutes ago, ratgirlagogo said:

"Weirdly unmotivated!"  Love this comment.

Edited to add: @ratgirlagogo, you commented while I was posting, so here is instant clarification! I bet you'll agree that "weirdly unmotivated" is le mot juste!

Edited January 21, 2017 by Rinaldo

[ratgirlagogo]

3 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

I bet you'll agree that "weirdly unmotivated" is le mot juste!

Oh, absolument.  Too funny!

[Milburn Stone]

I caught the Demy homage right away in the staging of the numbers in La La Land--if one can be said to "catch" something that one is being bludgeoned over the head with--but I didn't realize how much LLL's opening song (as music) owes to the song in your second clip, @Rinaldo, until I watched it.

My take on LLL? I remained highly resistant to its charms through the whole first half. (The song Emma Stone sings near the beginning, about her alienation at the Hollywood party, bored me so completely it made me angry. Like, I'm supposed to give a rat's ass about how much fun she isn't having? Please explain why.) But about halfway through, the story began to work for me as drama--I actually found myself caring about these two crazy kids, and pulling for them to make a go of it. The performances by Stone and Gosling had a lot to do with this. Once the story started to make me care, the musical numbers started to exert their charms upon me. By the end I was moved. Still, I think it would have been better with words and music written at a higher level of craft than what we got. (Although I did admire Stone's soliloquy in the audition room.)

[Crisopera]

Yet another fan of It's Always Fair Weather here.  The first time I saw it, in high school (many, many!) years ago, it was on TV in pan-and-scan.  As you can imagine, I was baffled by it. But then I saw it at a revival house (now sadly defunct) and was blown away.  The roller skates number!  Dan Dailey's big number!  Dolores Gray singing "Thanks a Lot but No Thanks"! Cyd Charisse doing "Baby You Knock Me Out"!  Great stuff.

 

This morning, I was watching a little musical called Melody Cruise (1933).  Directed by Mark Sandrich (director of many Astaire & Rogers films), this was worth watching to see the direct influence of Mamoulian's Love Me Tonight (1932) - lots of rhythmic talk/singing, a song going from one person to the next.  Unfortunately, this movie has an uninspiring leading man (Phil Harris, best known today as the voice of Baloo the Bear in The Jungle Book), and the numbers are hardly of Rodgers & Hart quality.  Even Charlie Ruggles struggles to wring laughs out of the script.

And I loved La La Land.  From the clever opening number to the bittersweet ending, the fact that the leads were not exactly Gene Kelly and Cyd Charisse  really didn't give me pause.  Their performances (and genuine chemistry) carried them and the film, along with the spectacular art direction and lovely direction.  Highly recommended.

[Milburn Stone]

18 hours ago, Crisopera said:

the fact that the leads were not exactly Gene Kelly and Cyd Charisse  really didn't give me pause. 

I didn't hold that against the movie at all. And for me, Ryan Gosling is so good that he instantly engenders my sympathy for his plight, whatever it is in whatever movie he's in. But I didn't feel the Emma Stone character was well-drawn enough to make me care about her. OK, she works as a barista and wants to be an actress. And...that's supposed to matter to me? Compare that to the scene that introduces Kathy Selden, in which she's taking the piss out of Don Lockwood when he falls into her car. You're going, "I have no idea who this character is, but whatever she wants in life, let's give her a double order, because I love her!" Anyway, there's no right or wrong here, obviously, just trying to work out (for myself, as much as for anyone else) why the first half of the movie did nothing for me.

Edited January 22, 2017 by Milburn Stone

[ratgirlagogo]

19 hours ago, Crisopera said:

Unfortunately, this movie has an uninspiring leading man (Phil Harris, best known today as the voice of Baloo the Bear in The Jungle Book)

Gee, I love his radio work, on the Jack Benny Show and on the spinoff Phil Harris/Alice Faye Show.  Sorry you didn't like it, but thanks for mentioning it - I see it's available on WatchTCM so I'm going to check it out for sure.

[Charlie Baker]

This afternoon I caught up with some of a real curiosity item: A Man to Remember. It was a remake of a Lionel Barrymore vehicle about a small town doctor who worked hard for the community all his life for little gain.  The main plot pivot seemed to be the doctor's struggle to contain a polio outbreak,  I hadn't seen this before or the Barrymore original, but this version seemed a bit heavy-handed melodrama.  However, the very good character actor Edward Ellis, probably best known to us TCMers as the title character of The Thin Man, got to do a central role and did it well. Aside from that, and the fact that Garson Kanin directed the movie, a further curiosity is that it was shown with Dutch subtitles.  Leonard Maltin's Classic Movie Guide states that the subtitled version is the only one to survive.  The print seemed in pretty good shape.

[Crisopera]

On 1/22/2017 at 6:34 PM, ratgirlagogo said:

On 1/21/2017 at 11:04 PM, Crisopera said:

Unfortunately, this movie has an uninspiring leading man (Phil Harris, best known today as the voice of Baloo the Bear in The Jungle Book)

Gee, I love his radio work, on the Jack Benny Show and on the spinoff Phil Harris/Alice Faye Show.  Sorry you didn't like it, but thanks for mentioning it - I see it's available on WatchTCM so I'm going to check it out for sure.

His later radio work is terrific (as is Baloo!), but his character in this is poorly written, with no zest or humor, and he seems really uneasy.

[prican58]

Phil sure looked good in a tux, though.

 

This guy really was fascinating.

http://aikainkauna.tumblr.com/post/41163268378/ten-reasons-why-you-should-love-conrad-veidt

[ratgirlagogo]

Thanks for the warning.  I'm still always eager to see any radio-related movies like this.

[Charlie Baker]

Schedule alert: in an evening of women in prison movies, Ladies They Talk About turns up at 11:30 ET.  It's a short, snappy pre-Code movie that is gritty and a bit silly, but it has Barbara Stanwyck at full steam.  We mentioned this one in our Stanwyck discussion a little while back.  Especially if you love her and haven't caught this one, grab it.