TCM: The Greatest Movie Channel

[Crisopera]

In Ace in the Hole, Jan Sterling has one of the hardest of all hard-boiled lines of dialogue:  "I don't go to church.  Kneeling bags my nylons."  Great movie.

Edited June 11, 2016 by Crisopera

[jjj]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 9:14 PM, ratgirlagogo said:

The one I love more than any other is The Three Lives of Thomasina - it's not just my favorite Disney movie, it's one of my favorite films period.

I adore that film, and rarely watch it, so I don't wear out my love for it.  It made me love Susan Hampshire in any role, and I was so surprised when I re-watched it as an adult that Patrick McGoohan was the veterinarian.  And I did not even like cats as a child, but the film transcended species!  Such a great mixture of adult's and children's themes. 

[jjj]

On ‎6‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 10:00 AM, Milburn Stone said:

Drat--missed Ace in the Hole. However, just checked and it is available for rent in HD at the iTunes Store, which means we can watch it on Apple TV.

As has been commented there and about, it has one of the most horrifyingly cynical, villainously hilarious (i.e. great) titles in movie history.

It is also available for streaming in the Comcast Xfinity site.  There are many more films there than are ever in the television OnDemand list for TCM. 

[Rinaldo]

I finally watched the 1939 film of On Your Toes that I'd DVR'd. I'm well aware that early movie adaptations of musicals are always strange -- dropping songs, adding others, revamping the plot or replacing it with an altogether new one. But this one is special! In a show about dancing, casting the leading man with a non-dancer (Eddie Albert) is noteworthy. (And it disproves what I'd always believed, that the concept of the "dance double" was invented with Flashdance; nope, we get a number of neck-down shots of a snazzy tapper who's supposed to be Mr. Albert.)

But at least he can sing, right? Doesn't matter, because there is no singing in the movie. All the songs are omitted (the two big ballets are all that remain, plus some underscoring that gives us tantalizing teases of "There's a Small Hotel" and others).

Ah well. At least we have Zorina as the Russian ballerina, and she's lovely and charming as always. And the minor plot tweaks (eliminating the other girl, thus making Zorina his one love since childhood) are actually helpful.

[jjj]

20 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

-- dropping songs, adding others, revamping the plot or replacing it with an altogether new one.

This was on my mind as I watched part of the film version of "Guys and Dolls" on TCM/online/Xfinity last night.  I had to stop when I saw they replaced "Bushel and a Peck" with a new number "Pet me Poppa", and I already knew that "Marry the Man Today" was not in the film.  I love this musical so much, and keep hearing there might be a remake (reports fluctuate), but if they do, I hope it is very well cast and includes the original numbers.  So odd that stage versions feel so large, and the film version feels so claustrophobic.  I was so spoiled by outstanding amateur productions and by seeing Faith Prince as Adelaide. 

[Milburn Stone]

12 minutes ago, jjj said:

 I was so spoiled by...seeing Faith Prince as Adelaide. 

I saw that production on Broadway--Faith Prince, Nathan Lane, Peter Gallagher, Josie de Guzman. Exhilarating!!!

[bmoore4026]

I almost missed Carnival in Flanders tonight.  I first saw this movie I think in 2010 and I fell in love with it almost immediately.

It was nice to see a movie set in the late 1500s and everything not looking like a smokey shithole and everyone looking clean and neat.  In comparison to how the years from the Roman Empire to the 1900s are portrayed today, what with its overemphasis on sloppiness and grayness (even though there was colorful clothing back then and, yes, men wore colorful clothing back in those days) and death, this movie is practically Disneyesque.

Francoise Rosay rocks as the mayor's wife.  She's one of the strongest women in film history.  She keeps whole town from falling apart by rallying the women of the town into treating the occupying Spanish army with as much hospitality possible...and they, in turn, leave the town and citizens unharmed along with exempting them from paying taxes for a year.  The women do this whilst all the men are cowering.  That's awesome! 

Another thing that makes this movie great is that the captain of the Spanish soldiers, along with the painter who is in love with mayor's eldest daughter, are super hot.  Another thing it is pretty funny.  The bits with the Spanish lieutenant and the fishmonger and his wife have some great double entendres as are the scenes with the mayor pretending to be dead and barely getting through it.  The foppish guy whom the mayor promised his eldest daughter to almost screws things up for everyone but he gets his in the end and everyone is happy, though it's more than implied that the mayor's wife fell in love with the Spanish captain.  Had she been anyone else, she probably would have gone with him.  But she was a married woman with several children and she was not going to abandon them.  At least she has that rosary to remember him by.

God, I love this film!

[Milburn Stone]

6 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

I almost missed Carnival in Flanders tonight.  I first saw this movie I think in 2010 and I fell in love with it almost immediately.

Thanks for this synopsis of the film, bmoore. I never knew that the 1953 Broadway musical of the same name had an antecedent!

As a bit of trivia (non-trivial for those who care about such things, like me), the musical of the film contained one song that became a classic--"Here's That Rainy Day"--and another that received at least one recording outside the show--"I'm One of Your Admirers," waxed by Bobby Short. The songs were by Burke and Van Heusen.

[bluepiano]

I never knew that "Here's That Rainy Day" came from a musical. Lovely tune that's been sung by Frank and Ella among others, and interpreted instrumentally by many jazz musicians over the years.  So I one for one appreciate your "trivia."

Edited June 14, 2016 by bluepiano

[Rinaldo]

I suppose this belongs on the "Theater" thread, but the musical Carnival in Flanders is one of the great fascinating "lost" musicals to those who get into such things. There's that immortal classic "Here's That Rainy Day" and maybe the one other song, and Dolores Gray won the Leading Actress Tony award (which remains a record for the fewest number of performances deemed Tony-worthy -- just six). But no recording was made, it's never been performed anywhere since, and the performance materials seem not to survive (or maybe there's a piano score somewhere, but no orchestrations). I doubt I'll ever see a performance of it.

[Crisopera]

AND a book by Preston Sturges.  That's pretty close to a tragic loss.  Until you said that the performance materials were lost, I was hoping that maybe it would show up on the Encores! series someday.  The lead female role would seem made for Patti Lupone.

[jjj]

so sorry -- wrong thread!

Edited June 14, 2016 by jjj

[Rinaldo]

4 hours ago, Crisopera said:

AND a book by Preston Sturges.  That's pretty close to a tragic loss.  Until you said that the performance materials were lost

That was a guess from everything I've read about it; maybe there are copies of the libretto somewhere. (Though I wouldn't expect classic Sturges if it surfaces; his career and life were on the downslope by this time, and reports from those who worked with him on this final stage projects tell, sympathetically, of a sad individual who didn't know what to do in this strange medium.)

Still, next season Encores is going to reconstruct Cole Porter's The New Yorkers from piano-vocal copies of 12 songs plus one surviving mimeographed script, so never say never. Plus, there might always be another recovered stash like the one in Secaucus in the early 1980s.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Rinaldo

[bluepiano]

I appreciate TCM giving us classics like Sunset Boulevard and Singing in the Rain among so many others, but my affection knows no limits when they also give us beloved turkeys like Queen of Outer Space, with Zsa Zsa Gabor as the universe's only Hungarian Venusian, or Hillbillys in a Haunted House, which may have the most self-explanatory title of any movie I know. (Rivalled only by Snakes on a Plane).

I remembered Queen from its showing on the local Saturday morning horror/sci fi movie program in New York when I was a kid, but not too young to appreciate all the leggy Venusian women. What I didn't get, which I'm sure of now, is that it was intended as a satire of the space operas of the period, especially Forbidden Planet, from which it literally borrowed some props and costumes. The howlingly bad dialogue and clichéd characters definitely had to be intentional. And believe it or not, none other than Ben Hecht has a story credit.

Hillbillys has the unique distinction of bringing together in one movie such country music stars of the time as Ferlin Huskey and Sonny James along with horror veterans John Carradine, Basil Rathbone, and Lon Chaney Jr. (all obviously deserving better). Plus, playing the "Oriental" dragon lady villainess, someone named Linda Ho, who might be the worst actress I've ever seen.

The lovely Joi Lansing was supposed to also be a country singer, though she was obviously dubbed, and had to silently emote through a couple of excruciatingly bad musical numbers. She was one "blonde bombshell" who never got her break, though she appears in a surprising number of movies, including some significant cameos like in the brilliantly shot opening sequence of Touch of Evil. (She died of cancer not long after the making of Hillbillys, and I read that Frank Sinatra, one of several prominent ex boy-friends, paid for her funeral).

Edited June 14, 2016 by bluepiano

[roseha]

I recorded a 6 AM showing of a 1932 film "The Crash" on TCM Monday.  I've always wondered why there have been apparently so few attempts by Hollywood to dramatize the events of the 1929 market crash and the effects on the country.  This was an interesting pre-code with Ruth Chatterton as a cynical woman with a fear of poverty who carelessly fabricates the wrong stock advice to husband George Brent when her ex lover refuses to give her any more tips.  Directed by William Dieterle who also made the brilliant 1931 "lost generation" film "The Last Flight."

Edited June 15, 2016 by roseha

[Rinaldo]

5 hours ago, bluepiano said:

...beloved turkeys like Queen of Outer Space, with Zsa Zsa Gabor as the universe's only Hungarian Venusian...

I'm sorry to have missed this. All I know about it is Chris Chase's fond recollection of it in her book collection of articles. (Ms. Chase also appeared in the very first Kubrick film, as Irene Kane.) She cherished the memory of Zsa Zsa snarling, "I hay dot kvinn."

[bluepiano]

Among Zsa Zsa's other classic lines is: "Vimmen cannot be happy vizout man!"

I'm interested that Chris Chase wrote a book. She was quite striking in Kubrick's first film, Killer's Kiss, and then as far as I know just disappeared.

Trivia fact for TCM fans - in one of the black and white montages they play as a movie intro, the scenes in the dance hall, the bored ticket seller, and the woman in the window taking her blouse off (Irene) are all from Killer's Kiss. It's a beautifully shot and edited movie, both done by Kubrick, in addition to directing, especially given the tiny budget. There was a true film artist, as opposed to many of today's big name directors, who probably couldn't shoot someone walking across the street unless they had a hundred million dollar special effects budget.

[voiceover]

EEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!  An Osborne sighting!!  Pre-taped it may have been, but what a welcome respite.  Like water in the desert.

And, p.s., enjoyed Candice B's takes.  Would love to see her as a guest host.

Edited June 15, 2016 by voiceover

[Julia]

18 hours ago, bluepiano said:

Zsa Zsa Gabor as the universe's only Hungarian Venusian

Are you sure about that?

[bluepiano]

Thank you for that. Yes, being a UFO geek, I know about the theory that Hungarians are descended from some extraterrestrial race, given the distinctive language and the very high incidence of geniuses across a variety of fields.

But I think that Zsa Zsa's talent is of a more earthly nature.

Edited June 15, 2016 by bluepiano

[Julia]

16 hours ago, bluepiano said:

Thank you for that. Yes, being a UFO geek, I know about the theory that Hungarians are descended from some extraterrestrial race, given the distinctive language and the very high incidence of geniuses across a variety of fields.

But I think that Zsa Zsa's talent is of a more earthly nature.

Talent is such a strong word :)

Still, as a family they seemed much more good-natured than the Kardashians, for lack of a better example of a modern family in the same line of business.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Julia

[Padma]

Just saw the guest programmer (Candace Bergen) and Osborne (!) with "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre". I'm a little surprised that a guest programmer wouldn't be better informed about the film she's recommending (based on "seeing it once thirty years ago").  I don't know if she's right in what she kept saying, that it's a "little" movie, a little art movie. I think of it as a big movie, a major Warner Bros. classic, even though it wasn't a big money maker at the time.

Also, maybe she saw a bad print, but it really doesn't have the poorly filmed, washed out look she thinks it does. Nor was it "all filmed a few minutes from the (SF) valley". It was filmed, in part at least, on location in Mexico. (And always sorry for Ronald Reagan that he was John Huston's first choice for the part of Cody , but Warner vetoed it and put Reagan in some forgettable piece of junk instead.)  Great choice of film--script, acting, direction, themes--great to have Osborne back--but I was disappointed in CB's intro of it. 

Edited June 16, 2016 by Padma

[Julia]

1 hour ago, Padma said:

(And always sorry for Ronald Reagan that he was John Huston's first choice for the part of Cody , but Warner vetoed it and put Reagan in some forgettable piece of junk instead.)  Great choice of film--script, acting, direction, themes--great to have Osborne back--but I was disappointed in CB's intro of it.

I can't even imagine how the world would have been a different place if Reagan had become part of Ford's stock company and stayed in acting.

[bmoore4026]

Whole bunch of musicals on tonight.  Gypsy, Funny Girl, A Funny Thing Happened on the way to the Forum, Camelot, and Oliver.  Should be good viewing (for the most part; can't stand Richard Harris' alternating between whispering and yelling in Camelot) for all us insomniacs.

[Rinaldo]

That's a good wide range of movie musicals. I consider Oliver! a real masterpiece (and a surprising one for me, as I don't care much for that musical onstage), Funny Girl a semi-classic associated with one performer that was fortunately made (well, thanks to William Wyler) with that performer, Gypsy a masterpiece onstage that didn't quite get the movie it deserved (I prefer the later telefilm with Bette Midler) but has its moments, and then we have two stage shows I love (Forum and Camelot) that don't really come across onscreen as they ought. 

[Sharpie66]

I saw Oliver! onstage when I was around 8 or 9 (done under a circus tent outdoors, aimed at kids/family audience), and ended up preferring the stage version over the film. I think I will DVR it overnight and see if my opinion has changed over the decades.

[voiceover]

I may be repeating myself, but kudos again for Michael & Annette & their convos introducing the stage-to-screen.  I'd love to see them as regular fill-ins.  Madeleine Stowe is a fine actress but meh as an RO sub (admittedly a tough assignment), and I'm not sure about the new Saturday/fan host either.

[Julia]

Only vaguely on-topic, but I remember we were speculating about this a while ago, and yes, there may actually be a remake of West Side Story. At least, Steven Spielberg and Tony Kushner are working on one.

[Rinaldo]

10 hours ago, voiceover said:

I may be repeating myself, but kudos again for Michael & Annette & their convos introducing the stage-to-screen.  

I concur. They come off as serious theatergoers who are also real movie fans, aware of at least some history. (And of course they're actors of stature too -- I saw him onstage a few years ago in Pinter, and as the stage manager in Our Town. When they praise a piece of acting, I know they know what they're talking about.)

[jjj]

I had never seen "A Foreign Affair" previously, and was so struck by all the scenes of 1948 Berlin that I missed sections of the movie. 

[voiceover]

What a lovely wallow in Austen this evening was!  P&P, still my favorite (and I'm quite ready to stare down any devoted Janeite who has gripes about this version); but all of them together are a yummy time.

Scone me, somebody.

[Rinaldo]

12 hours ago, voiceover said:

P&P, still my favorite (and I'm quite ready to stare down any devoted Janeite who has gripes about this version)

I'm braced for the staring-down, because I do have gripes. BUT I will readily agree that it's far and away the best big-screen filming of the book (the only other contender being the Keira Knightley one, which I can defend in moments but not as a whole). So we may enjoy a civilized cup of tea in agreement on that. For Sense and Sensibility and Persuasion, the other programming of the evening, there's literally no movie competition at all (indeed, the latter was made for UK TV, if I'm not mistaken, and released theatrically in the States). I'm glad they didn't try to including the 15-year-old Mansfield Park, a problematic interpretation of a problematic book IMO. Emma could be fun in the Gwyneth P version (leave Clueless for a different theme night), though I prefer the telefilm with Kate Beckinsale as a rendering of the book.

[Julia]

23 hours ago, jjj said:

I had never seen "A Foreign Affair" previously, and was so struck by all the scenes of 1948 Berlin that I missed sections of the movie. 

I thought that was far and away Marlene Dietrich's best movie, and it was nice to see the studio head from Singing in the Rain get something juicy to do.

15 hours ago, voiceover said:

What a lovely wallow in Austen this evening was!  P&P, still my favorite (and I'm quite ready to stare down any devoted Janeite who has gripes about this version); but all of them together are a yummy time.

Scone me, somebody.

I think it's a delightful pre-war comedy of manners which shares a number of essential plot points with Pride and Prejudice, but I think the Code prevented them from allowing establishment stalwart Lady Catherine to be anything worse than blunt and Darcy more than just slightly thoughtless. I think those choices really disserved Darcy by diminishing the early influences which led to his false pride, and Lizzie by making it less understandable that she would take against him to the point of deranging her judgment.

3 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

I'm braced for the staring-down, because I do have gripes. BUT I will readily agree that it's far and away the best big-screen filming of the book (the only other contender being the Keira Knightley one, which I can defend in moments but not as a whole).

What is it that appeals about the Keira Knightly Pride and Prejudice? I mean, granted, I absolutely adored the 2008 Persuasion and I found it jarring that they kissed on the street, so I'm one of Those Austen fans.

But I don't think the woman who wrote Emma pictured her Lizzie running around barefoot or not bothering to chase the pigs out of the parlor or necking with Darcy in a foggy field. I can't imagine Austen would have considered any of that the behavior of a woman who had only her status as the daughter of a gentleman to separate her from a descent to lower class status for herself and her descendants, if any.

[ratgirlagogo]

5 minutes ago, Julia said:

I thought that was far and away Marlene Dietrich's best movie

I'm not sure what I like her best in - I do like her an awful lot in this.  But I'm even more impressed by Jean Arthur as the dowdy mouseburger - I admire Jean Arthur enough that I wish I kind of liked her more in her films.  This is SUCH a Hollywood death role (playing boring and ugly without playing disabled or retarded or something, which might win you an Oscar) -  it's not surprising she barely had a film career after this and I understand from watching TCM that she was one of those people who were not that interested in Hollywood stardom, not enough to fight and claw to hold onto it anyway.  .  A few years later she did play a wonderfully realistic frontier mom in the otherwise extremely unrealistic Western Shane - the scene where she wears her wedding dress to the dance is one of my favorite things in the history of the movies.  How many people even KNOW today that you worked for years on making/spent some serious money on your wedding dress because it was going to be THE fancy dress you'd wear to big events for the rest of your life?

[Julia]

2 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

I admire Jean Arthur enough that I wish I kind of liked her more in her films.

Yeah, I'm totally with you on this. I like the kind of smart, quirky roles she played, and I like that her characters didn't have to be subjected to ritual humiliation to make them more relatable to men, and I feel as if I should warm to her more than I do.

She was one of Meryl Streep's teachers, so I guess it's one of those things where professionals see something I'm missing.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Julia

[Rinaldo]

1 hour ago, Julia said:

What is it that appeals about the Keira Knightly Pride and Prejudice?

I'm trusting that that question wasn't addressed to me (the one who had just mentioned it), as the main point of my sentence was that I found it indefensible. (A handful of the supporting players are well cast and momentarily amusing, but that's about it.) In fact, I heartily endorse all your points, and more.

I've not previously heard that any of the changes in the 1940 Pride and Prejudice were Code-prompted. (I assumed they were just screenwriters thinking up "cute" business, as usual.) Do we have surviving letters or memos on the subject? I always find that sort of discussion fascinating. (As I do with writings about the customs and manners of Austen's time; I eat that stuff up.)

[Milburn Stone]

On June 19, 2016 at 1:47 AM, voiceover said:

 P&P, still my favorite (and I'm quite ready to stare down any devoted Janeite who has gripes about this version)...

Voiceover, which version is that? I didn't catch Austen night, and I'm not able to tell from the ensuing discussion.

[Rinaldo]

The 1940 MGM with Olivier and Garson.

[Inquisitionist]

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 9:13 PM, Rinaldo said:

She cherished the memory of Zsa Zsa snarling, "I hay dot kvinn."

Struggling with this a bit:  "I hate that queen"??

[Julia]

18 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

I'm trusting that that question wasn't addressed to me (the one who had just mentioned it), as the main point of my sentence was that I found it indefensible. (A handful of the supporting players are well cast and momentarily amusing, but that's about it.) In fact, I heartily endorse all your points, and more.

I've not previously heard that any of the changes in the 1940 Pride and Prejudice were Code-prompted. (I assumed they were just screenwriters thinking up "cute" business, as usual.) Do we have surviving letters or memos on the subject? I always find that sort of discussion fascinating. (As I do with writings about the customs and manners of Austen's time; I eat that stuff up.)

I put that badly. What I was wondering is what elements of the movie you did like. And maybe your thoughts on the mini series?

[Rinaldo]

3 hours ago, Inquisitionist said:

Struggling with this a bit:  "I hate that queen"??

Yes.

1 hour ago, Julia said:

I put that badly. What I was wondering is what elements of the movie [newer P&P] you did like. And maybe your thoughts on the mini series?

As I indicated subsequently, I enjoy some of the casting. (Let's face it, the UK is full of superb actors apt for Austen. It would be hard to score a complete miss.) Rosamund Pike as Jane, Judi Dench as Lady Catherine, Tom Hollander as Mr. Collins (though not Austen's idea of the character, the emphasis on shyness made for an unusually believable rendition), and a few others (for that matter Keira K is an appealing actress who could have played a good Lizzy had she been allowed). That's about it. The idea of clarifying that they're hanging on to gentility by a thread which could be destroyed if they don't marry well, and that their income depends on a working farm and all that... it's not invalid in itself, just that it was carried out so heavy-handedly and wrongly, as you said. It could have been done with deft implications, but that's not the style of this film.

The miniseries with Jennifer Ehle is fine, I guess. It seems to be most people's favorite. I don't like the added scenes, some of which show us too much about what happens in Elizabeth's absence (Mr. Darcy so hot 'n' bothered he must plunge into the water); but in compensation there are some scenes from the book that haven't been included in any other adaptation (the sisters meeting Lizzy halfway back from her visit with the Collinses).

My favorite version is actually the previous BBC miniseries, with Elizabeth Garvie. It does have that old-style tape-indoors-film-outdoors look, but the adaptation by Fay Weldon actually manages to retain all my favorite lines (even the opening sentence of the book) without resorting to narration, and all the characters are very satisfyingly embodied for my taste. The pace seems right (not too overextended), and the secondary characters on the border between "real" and caricature, as they should. And Ms. Garvie was a delight in every way; I wish I'd seen her in other things.

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

The miniseries with Jennifer Ehle is fine, I guess. It seems to be most people's favorite

It's my favorite, definitely, the 1995 adaption.  :-)  And, shallowly, I liked the added scenes (especially Darcy at the pond...sigh!). But I think I also liked them as the characters were fleshed out in their own right which, for me, enhanced the story. But tomato, tomahto. I did watch the 1980 version you preferred, but David Rintoul's Darcy was so one-dimensional as to be a block of wood, in my view. But Ms. Garvie was pretty good.

I guess it's good there are so many adaptions of this story that there are a variety of adaptions to account for taste!

As an aside, there is an Austen thread in the Specials, TV Movies and Other One Offs forum if anyone wants to let out their inner Austenite further.  :-)

[Rinaldo]

One person's "one-dimensional" is another's "willing to be dislikable for most of the story." :) Too many portrayers of Darcy (and other similar characters whose goodness becomes evident only very gradually, like Scrooge) try too hard to be liked from the beginning -- they send out those little "star" signals that "I'm really a good guy under all this." Rintoul was a prissy, self-conscious, arrogant pill until we much later got a chance to see other sides (and the character made a conscious effort to reform his behavior). Or so it seems to me.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Rinaldo

[bluepiano]

I am really happy. Just saw that tomorrow TCM is screening four early Cagney movies that I've never seen. The fast talking, live wire Cagney of the early to mid '30s was a force of nature, always amazingly entertaining. And as an added bonus, we also get to see Joan Blondell and the beautiful, sadly forgotten Ann Dvorak. I am really really happy.

[Rinaldo]

Stage To Screen gave me a chance to see A Man for All Seasons again, for the first time in... way longer than I realized. I saw it on first release, again when it came to my college town (with friends from the dorm, one of whom proclaimed it "the most boring movie I've ever seen"), and with my family when it achieved the then-standard network airing. So, 40+ years ago. But I still love it as much as ever, and I dare say I understand the personal as well as political undercurrents better. Superb performances down the line, and the unobtrusive direction of Fred Zinnemann to keep everything balanced and in line. A marvelous achievement.

[bluepiano]

Flying Down to Rio must've come in under the wire before the Hays Code started being enforced, because Ginger Rogers sings a song with pretty racy lyrics (while wearing a pretty racy outfit). And an unnamed blonde actress in the night club scene, observing the attention dark, stunning Dolores Del Rio is getting from all the men, delivers the immortal line, "what do these Brazilian women have south of the equator that we don't have?"

Edited June 24, 2016 by bluepiano

[ratgirlagogo]

Quote

3 hours ago, bluepiano said:

the immortal line, "what do these Brazilian women have south of the equator that we don't have?"

 

Damn, what is up with the quote function here?  Whatever.  I just wanted to say that I wish I could find some book somewhere that identified the name of the starlet that delivered that line, one of the most famous lines of the pre-Code era.

[Milburn Stone]

15 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

Stage To Screen gave me a chance to see A Man for All Seasons again, for the first time in... way longer than I realized...But I still love it as much as ever, and I dare say I understand the personal as well as political undercurrents better.

Re the political undercurrents: From my memory of seeing it, once only, back when it came out and I was a teenager, the movie depicted Thomas More as pretty much an unmitigated good-guy, the courageous, principled hero of the story, etc. However, in the novel Wolf Hall, he's pretty much a bad-guy, burning people at the stake for heresy willy-nilly, an ultra-reactionary who banned all bibles that were printed in English rather than Latin, etc. Since reading Wolf Hall, I've always wondered which vision of him is the truer one.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Milburn Stone

[Rinaldo]

Robert Bolt managed an interesting tight-rope act with A Man for All Seasons: getting his audience on More's side and getting us worked up about the value of standing up for one's principles and establishing a line beyond which we will not compromise -- without our committing ourselves to the specific beliefs he was defending (the unique correctness of the Roman Catholic Church, including papal infallibility). Which some in the audience might share, but certainly far from all.

The historical record on More does seem to record his single-minded devotion to the Church's doctrine of his time, with all that that entails: disposing of heretics, reserving the right of biblical interpretation to the clergy rather than commoners, and so on. This also involved unswerving loyalty to his sovereign, as long as said ruler was loyal to the Church and thus an instrument of divine authority. (Hence More's contribution to the after-the-fact demonization of Richard III in order to justify the Tudor dynasty's right to the throne -- a demonization swallowed whole by Shakespeare, among others in subsequent times.)

[Milburn Stone]

1 hour ago, Rinaldo said:

Robert Bolt managed an interesting tight-rope act with A Man for All Seasons: getting his audience on More's side and getting us worked up about the value of standing up for one's principles and establishing a line beyond which we will not compromise -- without our committing ourselves to the specific beliefs he was defending...with all that that entails: disposing of heretics...

..by burning at the stake anyone who dared to be Christian in a different way. I appreciate all the background you're providing, which I didn't know, but I wonder how much it was the case that in the play and the movie Robert Bolt "managed an interesting tight-rope act," versus just left stuff out.