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TCM: The Greatest Movie Channel


mariah23
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So I went to this website https://tbmovielists.wordpress.com/quigleys-top-ten-box-office-champions-by-year/ and was more than a little shocked to see that the only other person who was the top box office star for five years straight was Bing Crosby.  Talk about "now largely forgotten".  I know he was hugely popular in his time but now, not so much.  

 

But if you want to look at forgotten stars, that list is a sad comment on the way fame fades.  Marie Dressler? Charles Farrell?  Wallace Beery?  Will Rogers?  Joe E. Brown?  All pretty much forgotten, and those five were just from 1932 alone.

 

I wouldn't generally think of Bing Crosby as forgotten, maybe because he was in so many Christmas themed movies that get shown to death every December. But I recently read a article by a jazz critic that discussed Crosby's neglected legacy as a singer in comparison to Frank Sinatra. While Sinatra is now universally deified, the article argued that Crosby was a more significant and influential singer. It's hard to appreciate from a contemporary perspective, but Crosby ushered in a new, more expressive style of singing that incorporated elements of jazz phrasing and timing. It was a real break from the dominant style of singing that was more like European operetta. Of course I'm talking about the mainstream, which meant white only. But apparently black musicians liked Crosby and did not resent his "borrowing" from them. (He and Louie Armstrong were lifelong friends).

 

Marie Dressler and Wallace Beery were both enormously popular, and were frequently teamed in movies because that was like automatic box office gold. As you say, now largely forgotten, except that bothwere  in Dinner at Eight. Comic actors may date even more badly than dramatic actors. Joe E. Brown is a good example. Another, from a later era, is Danny Kaye. The series of movies he made in the 40s and 50s were enormously popular in their day. However, this may be a case where someone deservedly faded away, at least in my opinion. I found him staggeringly unfunny and painful to watch.

Edited by bluepiano
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Oh, dammit, I knew there was something I wanted to record this week! I haven't seen that in a long time, and can't really remember how I felt about it, so I wanted to watch it again. I wonder how long I'll have to wait.

Once was enough with Parnell, so I skipped that one. But it did give us a great off-screen moment between Myrna Loy and Roz Russell. Russell lived down the street from Loy, and MGM put her in several roles that Loy didn't want to do. At a party, Russell joked that Loy would toss scripts out her front door, they'd roll down to Russell, and that's how she got her roles. Loy quipped, "Where were you the night I rolled you Parnell?"

It's probably on TCM on Demand.

Regarding Bing Crosby, look for his American Masters episode, they talk about how and why Bing isn't better remembered.

Edited by mariah23
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was more than a little shocked to see that the only other person who was the top box office star for five years straight was Bing Crosby.  Talk about "now largely forgotten".  I know he was hugely popular in his time but now, not so much.  

Gosh, this doesn't agree with my impression at all, but perhaps that's my musical background speaking: he remains one of the giants among American popular singers in the twentieth century, if only for his pioneering understanding of the greater looseness and intimacy made possible by the introduction of the microphone. And putting together his star outings (including the clerical hokum that won him his Oscar) along with his teamings with Astaire and Hope, I'd say he looms pretty large in film history even now.

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I think jazz people, singers especially, retain a high opinion of Bing, and the Christmas movies are permanent favorites even with people who never saw a Road movie.  But for a lot of people there's that whole Daddy Dearest thing which makes it difficult for them to experience his singing or his acting objectively.

Edited by ratgirlagogo
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You know, I didn't realize until I read the above that I've seen the movie about him, but except for Some Like It Hot, I've never seen Joe E Brown in anything.

 

When I was a kid, the local channel in Baltimore must have gotten a deal on Warner Bros. flicks of the early thirties, because they showed Joe E. Brown endlessly after school. 6 Day Bike Rider is the one that sticks in my mind. But the IMDB shows he made like 25 features between 1929 and 1934. He was 'uge.

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I'm trying to remember how I knew who Joe E. Brown was as a kid, because I certainly did. I guess he turned up on variety shows (like Red Skelton or Jackie Gleason) a lot? I did see Some Like It Hot eventually, but I already was familiar with him by then. (We never saw his Show Boat.)

 

There certainly are those who were a big deal in their own time, but are now near-forgotten (their movies little shown) except to movie buffs: Charles Farrell, Janet Gaynor, the Bennett sisters, Miriam Hopkins.... we can disagree about one or another, but it does happen.

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TCM did a day of Joe E. Brown movies not long ago. Good silly fun. Alibi Ike, the baseball story, was my favorite. When I was young and first saw Some Like It Hot on TV I had no idea of his history, but he had such a great face. I don't think he did much in the movies after his star faded, but he was Captain Andy in the 1951 version of Show Boat.

 

Yeah, Janet Gaynor was one of the biggest stars in silent movies and early talkies, and I believe she won the first Academy Award for Best Actress. (given for collective work, not one movie). But in the original A Star is Born I can't see what the fuss is about. Maybe its in the silent moves that she really shines. Since silent movies have only had a small, niche audience for several decades, pretty much all the greats, like Lillian Gish and Mary Pickford are also generally forgotten.

 

Joan Bennett is at least remembered by film noir fans for her work in two classic Fritz Lang movies, The Woman in the Window and Scarlett Street.

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TCM did a day of Joe E. Brown movies not long ago. Good silly fun. Alibi Ike, the baseball story, was my favorite. When I was young and first saw Some Like It Hot on TV I had no idea of his history, but he had such a great face. I don't think he did much in the movies after his star faded, but he was Captain Andy in the 1951 version of Show Boat.

 

Yeah, Janet Gaynor was one of the biggest stars in silent movies and early talkies, and I believe she won the first Academy Award for Best Actress. (given for collective work, not one movie). But in the original A Star is Born I can't see what the fuss is about. Maybe its in the silent moves that she really shines. Since silent movies have only had a small, niche audience for several decades, pretty much all the greats, like Lillian Gish and Mary Pickford are also generally forgotten.

 

Joan Bennett is at least remembered by film noir fans for her work in two classic Fritz Lang movies, The Woman in the Window and Scarlett Street.

Love Joe E. Brown in his later years, not so much in his earlier movies, mmv.

 

Joan Bennett is also remembered for her turn as Elizabeth Taylor's mom in {i]Father of the Bride[/i].  Arguably,  for most people, she is remembered for her role as matriarch in the tv show "Dark Shadows".  As a friend explained to me, she was "the name" that the producers hoped would get people to tune in.

 

I can thank TCM for introducing me to the rest of the Bennett sisters as well as showing me a young blonde(!) Joan.  She was Amy to Katherine Hepburn's Jo in that version of Little Women{/i}.  It is interesting to see her go from blonde to brunette in Trade Winds with Frederic March.

 

 

 And I agree he's very good in The Country Girl.

A question I've been wanting to ask for a while.  From what I've read the plot for TCG sounds an awful lot like the plot for "A Star is Born".  Has anyone else noticed this?

 

Hmmmm, well as long as they still use that wonderful striped dress Myrna Loy wears in the Christmas party scene.

Nope, not even then! (a remake or homage of the Thin Man)

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A question I've been wanting to ask for a while.  From what I've read the plot for TCG sounds an awful lot like the plot for "A Star is Born".  Has anyone else noticed this?

I can see why a quick plot description might make it sound that way, but as it unfolds there's really not much similarity.

Edited by Rinaldo
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I want to echo the love for The Thin Man here- one of my all time favorite movies and couples onscreen in anything. I always look for anything that can even approach that dynamic of two people who just enjoy each other and being together the way Nick and Nora do. Their amusement and enjoyment of each other is what makes you enjoy them.

 

I never understand why on TV especially, they think two people in a relationship can't be entertaining. Just look at these guys! That's how you do it. You need a couple with the kind of chemistry to pull it off, obviously, but it can SO be done. I get so irritated that people think the build-up and constant teasing is more interesting than the relationship. That does not have to be the case at ALL.

Edited by Ruby25
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I checked off another on the list of my Yet Unseen Classics when I retrieved Now, Voyager from the DVR. It's one of those instances where I can absolutely see why it's a classic even if it's a bit much for me. But there's always something satisfying about seeing someone fight back successfully against a repressive parent -- and Gladys Cooper was certainly a memorably horrible one here. Claude Rains and Paul Henried were both very appealing in their different ways. And now I've seen the two classic moments in their context: the cigarette-lighting business and the final line.

Edited by Rinaldo
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There are little things about Now, Voyager too, like that little gem of a performance by Mary Wickes as Gladys Cooper's savvy nurse and the 'fun' bullying niece being kindly but firmly put in her place.

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Love, love, love Now Voyager.  Swooningly romantic.

 

Joe E. Brown is in the same category as Eddie Cantor - HUGE at the time, but mainly forgotten now.

 

For me, the better performances in all versions of A Star is Born ( including What Price Hollywood) are those of the alcoholic husbands/mentors (Fredric March, James Mason, Kris Kristofferson and the COMPLETELY forgotten Lowell Sherman, who was also a well-known early-talkie director).

 

I'll take Bing Crosby over Frank Sinatra any day.  Such a great singer (not that Sinatra was any slouch, just a matter of taste).  And I really enjoy him as an actor, too.  If you want to see a very funny early Crosby performance, find We're Not Dressing (1934), a modernized adaptation of J. M. Barrie's play The Admirable Crichton.  He holds his own admirably with Carole Lombard, Ethel Merman, and Burns & Allen.  Very entertaining.

 

Norma Shearer is much more interesting and lively in her late silent/early talkie movies - once she became the First Lady of MGM, she grew increasingly stilted and "grand."  Lots of Lovely Hand Gestures.

Edited by Crisopera
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I checked off another on the list of my Yet Unseen Classics when I retrieved Now, Voyager from the DVR. It's one of those instances where I can absolutely see why it's a classic even if it's a bit much for me. But there's always something satisfying about seeing someone fight back successfully against a repressive parent -- and Gladys Cooper was certainly a memorably horrible one here. Claude Rains and Paul Henried were both very appealing in their different ways. And now I've seen the two classic moments in their context: the cigarette-lighting business and the final line.

Ah, you  must not forget the also famous "reveal" of the new Charlotte from toe to head, starting with the fabulous peek-a-boo toe shoe.

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Gladys Cooper'

She really specialized in starchy society matriarchs...From Now Voyager to the Bishops Wife to That Hamilton Woman. A bit more sympathetic in My Fair Lady.

 

Type her into Google Images and check out her early publicity pictures. She was quite the Pre-Raphaelite -looking beauty.

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Norma Shearer is much more interesting and lively in her late silent/early talkie movies - once she became the First Lady of MGM, she grew increasingly stilted and "grand."  Lots of Lovely Hand Gestures.

I saw The Women again last year after a couple of decades away from it, and was surprised how lively and natural she seemed in the early scenes, just horsing around with her daughter at their country house, or being indulgently amused by her bitchy friends. She's actually one of the primary signs of life in that opening sequence, what with Rosalind Russell overacting in a way she never did as a rule (so Cukor must have asked her for it) and Joan Fontaine looking as passively pained as in A Damsel in Distress.

 

Then the plot starts up, and Norma reverts to Suffering Nobly as I had recalled. But I'll give her credit for those early bits. As the movie continues, I look forward to the arrival of Paulette Goddard, and she doesn't disappoint. She's a firecracker in this.

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I'm very fond of Paulette Goddard.  Not a terribly versatile actress, but wonderful in her comfort zone (a "firecracker", indeed!).  I really love her in Kitty (1945), where she manages a credible British accent.  She had great chemistry with Ray Milland.  Definitely worth seeing for the entertaining script, and the fantastic Georgian costumes (by Raoul Pene du Bois).  Her career took a nosedive in the late 1940s, but I imagine she consoled herself with her legendary jewelry collection.

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Then the plot starts up, and Norma reverts to Suffering Nobly as I had recalled.

 

I think her performance hangs together a bit longer than that.  It's the very last shot - her arms outstretched - where I go, "Oh, come on!!!"

 

Considering what a stereotype-fest the movie is - it's amazing how many scenes work as naturally as they do.

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I would love to see Kitty -- my Mitchell Leisen book has a lot about it including some enticing stills. But it's never come up for me so far.

 

In The Women, that last shot is indeed a killer, and not in a good way. The final shot described in Anita Loos's screenplay (which was published) is much better: we follow Mary from the waist down as she runs to get back to Stephen, and finally we see his shoes and trouser legs -- a man, for the first time in the film! But as we pan up their embracing bodies, we fade out to The End before we see his face.

Edited by Rinaldo
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She really specialized in starchy society matriarchs...From Now Voyager to the Bishops Wife to That Hamilton Woman. A bit more sympathetic in My Fair Lady.

I love her in My Fair Lady!  She is great with treating Higgens as the child he is.  Of course, she is his mom. ;0)

 

I also enjoy her as the sister-in-law in Rebecca.  She doesn't have many scenes, but she makes the most of every one.

 

She (Paulette G.) also did a good job as Mrs. Chevely (the part Juliann Moore played in the recent version) in An Ideal Husband.

I saw the recent version first and prefer it to the earlier version.  Paulette seems out of place in the whole movie, almost too brassy, whereas Julianne Moore puts in a more subtle performance.

 

 

I would love to see Kitty -- my Mitchell Leisen book has a lot about it including some enticing stills. But it's never come up for me so far.

 

In The Women, that last shot is indeed a killer, and not in a good way. The final shot described in Anita Loos's screenplay (which was published) is much better: we follow Mary from the waist down as she runs to get back to Stephen, and finally we see his shoes and trouser legs -- a man, for the first time in the film! But as we pan up their embracing bodies, we fade out to The End before we see his face.

That seems odd, but now that you mention it, I have not seen that one in a long time.  It was one of the regular movies on TCM for a while, along with Linda Darnell's turn in Forever Amber

 

That description of the ending for The Women, sounds much better than what we got.  That said, you can see why it was filmed the other way.  End a Norma Shearer movie on something other than her face?!

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So much to read here! 

Bing: Take Mariah's advice and find the AM doc. I think the PBS site has it in its entirety. Great footage and one learns so much about him. Not a very straight laced individual. Sinatra is my guy but Bing is really the kind of voice one never hears anymore in popular music.

 

Joe E Brown: first thing that I notice is that he has no lips. Seriously. So thin they are non existent. But in watching his early films he is actually strangely good looking. Not handsome, Lord knows, but there is something going on there. The comparison to Eddie Cantor is interesting because I would venture to say that nobody under the age of 40 who is not a TCM freak even knows who he was. My first exposure to him was through the legendary talks show of the legendary Joe Franklin here in NY back in the 70's. Eddie was long dead but Joe used to talk about him a lot. He wasn't a bad looking man, either.

I only know about Charles Farrell because he played Gale Storm's dad in My Little Margie on tv. The reruns used to air when I was very young and my mom told me that he had been a very famous actor. I cannot name one movie he was in.

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I saw the recent version first and prefer it to the earlier version.  Paulette seems out of place in the whole movie, almost too brassy, whereas Julianne Moore puts in a more subtle performance.

 

Maybe it's one of those the greeks painted their marble statues in bright colors things? Because as a character study Julianne Moore's is clearly the better performance, but I wonder if Oscar Wilde didn't intend Mrs. Chevely to be almost too brassy.

 

The comparison to Eddie Cantor is interesting because I would venture to say that nobody under the age of 40 who is not a TCM freak even knows who he was. My first exposure to him was through the legendary talks show of the legendary Joe Franklin here in NY back in the 70's. Eddie was long dead but Joe used to talk about him a lot. He wasn't a bad looking man, either.

Well, there's this:

 

hqdefault.jpg

 

Bonus Bing.

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Oh Julia! Perfection!!!

 

Man, kids today have no idea of what they have missed in not growing up with Bugs. And he just gets better with time because you finally understand all the cultural asides, sayings etc that you really never quite understood when you were 8,9,10 years old.

 

Love all the cartoon celeb cameos.

 

 http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AhRciAYUwRQ/VhSavp3rLHI/AAAAAAAAzvY/SLHISvvaDq8/s1600/0911shorts130.jpg

 

http://www.ciakhollywood.com/cartoons/swoonercrooner/2.jpg

Edited by prican58
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Oh Julia! Perfection!!!

 

Man, kids today have no idea of what they have missed in not growing up with Bugs. And he just gets better with time because you finally understand all the cultural asides, sayings etc that you really never quite understood when you were 8,9,10 years old.

 

Love all the cartoon celeb cameos.

 

 http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AhRciAYUwRQ/VhSavp3rLHI/AAAAAAAAzvY/SLHISvvaDq8/s1600/0911shorts130.jpg

 

http://www.ciakhollywood.com/cartoons/swoonercrooner/2.jpg

Heh, the dueling crooners!

 

It was here that I finally got the in joke in "8 Ball Bunny" about the Humphrey Bogart cameo was a reference to the film The Treasure of the Sierra Madre

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One more!  The Looney Tunes cartoon, "Bacall to Arms" (1946), specifically parodies the Warner Bros. movie with Humphrey Bogart and Lauren Bacall, TO HAVE AND HAVE NOT (1945).  When I saw this, I was sure that they animated cells from the original movie!

 

TCM!  Was there any comment about the lack of military themed movies on 11/11?  Have they had their Maureen O'Hara tribute yet?

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The comparison to Eddie Cantor is interesting because I would venture to say that nobody under the age of 40 who is not a TCM freak even knows who he was. 

 

Those who watched the recent HBO program, Boardwalk Empire, may know who he is as he was a supporting character on the show for a time. However, I once asked my brother when watching if he realized Eddie Cantor was a real person, and he hadn't a clue, but of course he knew all the different mobsters real life personas.

Edited by Amello
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As for Eddie Cantor, I suppose he's nonexistent to the average person today, as so much else has become too, but in addition to TCM freaks, he's very much an important name to those interested in the history of popular performers in the US in the past century. (Which, granted, is relatively few.)

 

That whole wave of vaudeville comedian-singers who recorded a few singles and lasted long enough to make a few talkies is a big part of our "roots": Cantor, George M. Cohan, Al Jolson (who balanced a bit more onto the "singer" side), Jimmy Durante, Ed Wynn. The last three of those endured into the TV era, which may help with recognition of them in future. One who was of similar stature at the time, whose skills sound amazing, was Joe Cook. He made only 2 movies and was denied a long career for health reasons, and I think it's fair to say he's thoroughly forgotten now. (His most memorable stage musical, Fine and Dandy, music by Kay Swift, was given a studio recording a few years ago.)

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That whole wave of vaudeville comedian-singers who recorded a few singles and lasted long enough to make a few talkies is a big part of our "roots": Cantor, George M. Cohan, Al Jolson (who balanced a bit more onto the "singer" side), Jimmy Durante, Ed Wynn. The last three of those endured into the TV era, which may help with recognition of them in future.

 

A minor correction to your overall-insightful post: Cantor also endured into the TV era. The weekly comedy-variety show The Colgate Comedy Hour featured rotating hosts. Some weeks were hosted by Martin & Lewis; others, by Cantor; and there were other hosts as well. (Donald O'Connor was one, if memory serves.) I'm just old enough to have, in some vestigial part of my brain, some memories of Cantor hosting the show, which is why I've always known of his existence. (And why learning that he is unknown today affects me on a visceral level, as in, "Who doesn't know who Eddie Cantor is, for gosh sakes!")

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That whole wave of vaudeville comedian-singers who recorded a few singles and lasted long enough to make a few talkies is a big part of our "roots": Cantor, George M. Cohan, Al Jolson (who balanced a bit more onto the "singer" side), Jimmy Durante, Ed Wynn. The last three of those endured into the TV era, which may help with recognition of them in future.

Eddie Cantor, Ed Wynn, Jimmy Durante, Joe Cook, Al Jolson, Bing Crosby - all had their own network radio shows.  Cantor and Wynn in particular would not be well remembered for their movies, since they didn't make very many, and while people might KNOW they were in the Ziegfeld Follies, how many would actually have seen them  - it's their radio work that made them household names back in the 1930's.   It's true that only the radio stars that lasted into the television era are likely to be remembered.  That's why (well, part of why) people remember, for example,  Jack Benny better than they remember Fred Allen - both were huge, but Fred died early into the television era.

 

I've said it many times. We are LUCKY that Ted Turner keeps TCM on as a pet project. It keeps people's cultural awareness of these films alive.   I only wish he'd start a national Turner Classic Radio channel.  While there are internet classic radio channels and golden age of radio shows around the country, it's so scattershot - and even though you can get a hold of all these old radio shows via the internet more easily now than ever, I think people aren't likely to even want to do so, if they haven't been exposed to them in a TCMish way, with knowledgeable hosts and such.  

Edited by ratgirlagogo
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Cantor and Wynn in particular would not be well remembered for their movies, since they didn't make very many, and while people might KNOW they were in the Ziegfeld Follies, how many would actually have seen them

 

Wynn, though, was in Mary Poppins, so people who probably had no idea that he was a big star back in the day have at least seen him.

 

I wonder, though. Cantor, Jolson, Cohan, Will Rogers and Joe E Brown all had movies written about them. Obviously Cohan's and Brown's were a much bigger deal just because of who starred in them, and Rogers had a Broadway show written about him, which brought him back into the public eye. But I still wonder if there might not be some connection between the two who really dropped out of sight anyway and the fact that they were best known for working in blackface.

 

Not that there weren't plenty of other reasons not to celebrate Al Jolson, but it does seem a bit pointed.

Edited by Julia
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I love it too. Have seen it before but it's always good to see it again.

 

The only thing I wish were different is that I think I hear the "N" word in there. If I were the editor who did the excellent work in creating the mashup, I'd have expunged that. Sigh. Otherwise it's a delight.

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 Thanks to TCM I was finally able to catch Reflections in a Golden Eye, and it lived up to its reputation for being one hot mess, especially given the level of talent involved. (Elizabeth Taylor, Marlon Brando, John Huston). But I do have to say that I admire Elizabeth Taylor for taking on a role that really must've been a shocker for many of her fans. Between this movie and Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf, I can't think of another actress, still regarded as a great beauty, who was willing to play parts in which she was so unglamorous. It's to her credit that at she was interested in challenging herself as an actress, rather than resting on her laurels and just doing "Great Lady" type parts.

 

As part of the same TCM series of movies based on the work of southern writers I was glad to see Wise Blood again. It made a huge impact on me when I saw it upon its original release. What a unique movie. Strong stuff for sure, with great performances by Brad Dourif and an amazing supporting cast. (Amy Wright, Harry Dean Stanton, Ned Beatty). And kudos to John Huston for taking on a small, non commercial type project. This and The Dead, another late in life movie, stand with the best of his work. (And that's saying a lot).

Edited by bluepiano
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I love it too. Have seen it before but it's always good to see it again.

 

The only thing I wish were different is that I think I hear the "N" word in there. If I were the editor who did the excellent work in creating the mashup, I'd have expunged that. Sigh. Otherwise it's a delight.

Looked up the lyrics to "Uptown Funk", because the chorus was beginning to sound like something else to me, the "N" word is not listed but the "B" word is.

 

What is the movie with Eleanor Powell and Gracie Allen early on in the clip?

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What is the movie with Eleanor Powell and Gracie Allen early on in the clip?

 

Click on the CC button and the annotations will come up.

 

The only thing I wish were different is that I think I hear the "N" word in there.

 

No "N" word in Uptown Funk.  Maybe you're hearing it when he says liquor (“Fill my cup, put some liquor in it”)?

Edited by Bastet
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I could not make it through Golden Eye. I've tried before and couldn't. I love Brando but not even he could win me over. Taylor is a very good actress but I don't think she was good enough to rise above bad material. Give her a well defined role with teeth and she could run with it but in sub par films she doesn't impress. That's just me. But I do agree with bluepiano that she was fearless and willing to take chances.

 

Damn, Maureen O'Hara was so beautiful!! And Edmond O'Brien sure was a looker in his youth. Hunchback is such a perfect film. 

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http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/award-presenters-audrey-hepburn-and-grace-kelly-waiting-news-photo/50379456

 

This is a nice picture of Audrey and Grace from 1956. They were both born in 1929, like my mom, and it's kind of weird to think they'd be 86 now. And I just realized Grace was born the day after my mom! And both their first born were born in 1957. Just sayin'.

Edited by prican58
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