Approach The Bench: Law & Order General Discussion Thread

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

Is there a Season 17 thread? I watched "Home Sweet" and I couldn't stop giggling at Jack's acting when they set up the ex husband in the DA's office. 🤣

Ask and ye shall receive: Season 17 Discussion Thread!

[balmz]

here's a fun discussion from another forum i am on

 

if you could show the revival writers episodes which in your opinion are the best of the best, the prime examples of classic law and order, which ones would you choose?

[Prairie Rose]

Here is the clip from 2002 of Michael Moriarty winning the Emmy for Supporting Actor in a TV movie/miniseries. Jill Hennessy was the co-presenter. Apparently, it was the first time they had seen each other since 1994.

https://www.emmys.com/video/michael-moriarty-accepts-emmy-supporting-actor-miniseries-or-movie

[Prairie Rose]

Speaking of Jill Hennessy, here she is with S. Epatha, Dann Florek and Carolyn McCormick in 2015 for "Law & Order in 30 Seconds". Love how she references "Censure"! 😂

 

[Jenniferbug]

Is there a thread for Law & Order: Los Angeles? I've been rewatching it this week.

[WendyCR72]

43 minutes ago, Jenniferbug said:

Is there a thread for Law & Order: Los Angeles? I've been rewatching it this week.

No, neither L&O: Los Angeles nor L&O: Trial By Jury have threads.

[Jenniferbug]

6 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

No, neither L&O: Los Angeles nor L&O: Trial By Jury have threads.

Thanks! Probably not much interest in discussing 1 season shows that were on 10 years ago! 

[WendyCR72]

4 minutes ago, Jenniferbug said:

Thanks! Probably not much interest in discussing 1 season shows that were on 10 years ago! 

Don't know. You (or anyone) can feel free to start threads for them in the Other Dramas category, however, if you want to discuss them. (Single threads, no forum, just to clarify!)

[Prairie Rose]

Here is Richard Brooks singing a soul classic. His YouTube channel is full of goodies like this. He has a great voice!! 💖

 

[shapeshifter]

19 minutes ago, Prairie Rose said:

Here is Richard Brooks singing a soul classic. His YouTube channel is full of goodies like this. He has a great voice!! 💖https://youtu.be/fUurp89LxsI

Be still my heart! 💗
Thanks for sharing, @Prairie Rose!

[Prairie Rose]

7 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Be still my heart! 💗
Thanks for sharing, @Prairie Rose!

You're welcome! His version of "Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire" is terrific, too!! 😀

[balmz]

2 hours ago, Prairie Rose said:

Here is Richard Brooks singing a soul classic. His YouTube channel is full of goodies like this. He has a great voice!! 💖

 

lovely singing

 

also plot twist, paul changed so much after he left in season 4 because he was also being a part time singer and needed to put all his soul into that which changed his legal personality

[Prairie Rose]

@balmz, hey, that's as good an explanation as any. 😉😂

Here's Michael Moriarty (in the late 1980s, I believe) displaying his own considerable talent on vocals and piano. He wrote the song, too!!

 

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, Prairie Rose said:

Here is Richard Brooks singing a soul classic. His YouTube channel is full of goodies like this. He has a great voice!! 💖

 

Wow, he's really good.

[Prevailing Wind]

In several threads I've seen The Mothership referred to as"L&O:OG"  What does OG mean? "Original... ??"

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Prevailing Wind said:

In several threads I've seen The Mothership referred to as"L&O:OG"  What does OG mean? "Original... ??"

OG = Original Gangster
When used on these boards, it typically just means the poster is referring to the original version of a show. For example, if I read "OG Star Trek," I would think of Shatner and Nemoy.
WRT (With Regards To) the Law & Order Franchise, I would think OG references "the mothership" minus the season 21 reboot, but others may mean or read it differently.

I don't see a great definition online, but these 3 combined probably cover it more than you will want to know:

• https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/O.G.
• https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-origin-of-the-term-O-G-original-gangster
• https://7esl.com/og/

[Door County Cherry]

26 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

WRT (With Regards To) the Law & Order Franchise, I would think OG references "the mothership" minus the season 21 reboot, but others may mean or read it differently.

I agree with all but this.  Season 21 is going to be a part of the mothership for me even with the decade in between. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, Door County Cherry said:

I agree with all but this.  Season 21 is going to be a part of the mothership for me even with the decade in between. 

And since it is, because I agree, this is supposed to be the Mothership, there was no NEED to change the music for the opening credits or that model walk at the end. It's the Mothership, right? What we all have been clamoring for? Why the HELL change it? And they better bring back the CHUNG-CHUNG! sound for each and every tag going forward. That sound is so very much part of this show. That moron, Rick Eid was part of the original from around season 15, so he has no excuse. 12 years or no, this show has been in syndication during the 12 years it went off the air!

[Xeliou66]

Some notes about the upcoming episodes - apparently they’ve switched around a couple of them, episode 2 was originally going to be an episode titled Free Speech, now that episode is slated to air as the 4th episode, this week’s episode is titled Impossible Dream, and next week’s episode is titled Filtered Life.

Can’t wait for more new episodes! 

[Xeliou66]

Can we get a season 13 Thread? I think it’s the only season we don’t have a thread for. I’ve been watching some season 13 episodes today and would like to talk about them.

[WendyCR72]

6 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Can we get a season 13 Thread? I think it’s the only season we don’t have a thread for. I’ve been watching some season 13 episodes today and would like to talk about them.

Feel free to start one! Anyone can.

[Xeliou66]

18 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Feel free to start one! Anyone can.

Just started one!!

[balmz]

here's hopefully a good topic

 

what cases did you feel the Prosecution shouldn't have won or that you are surprised they did win?

[Xeliou66]

6 minutes ago, balmz said:

here's hopefully a good topic

 

what cases did you feel the Prosecution shouldn't have won or that you are surprised they did win?

In Gunshow, I think Judge Wright was correct to toss the verdict as that jury convicted on emotion, not on evidence or law - Wright shouldn’t have ever let it go to trial, it was a civil matter.

The season 19 episode All New, about the murderous firefighters, comes to mind as far as just having not a lot of evidence but Cutter managed to get all the perps put away anyway, it seemed like there was too much crammed in to that episode and there wasn’t a lot of actual evidence.

One episode where I thought the prosecution rightfully lost was in season 11’s Burn Baby Burn, it was one case where I thought the defense was probably correct, and the prosecution way overcharged going for a murder 1 conviction, they might’ve convicted had they charged manslaughter, but I think that the former black Panther who shot the cop might’ve reasonably feared for his life when he shot the cop, and there was no way it was 1st degree murder, they overcharged because they wanted to appease the police IMO.

One early episode that I thought the prosecution was rather fortunate to get the conviction in was Conduct Unbecoming, there wasn’t a whole lot of solid evidence against Capt Bunker, I wonder if the defense hadn’t put him on the stand if they would’ve gotten the conviction, Stone got Bunker to show his true colors during his cross. Same with C-Square in Discord IMO, I think the prosecution was lucky C-Square took the stand and rubbed the jury the wrong way.

Interesting topic, I’m sure I’ll think of more interesting examples to discuss.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I don't know why I didn't know this before, but Robert Morgenthau, who Adam Schiff was loosely based on (Morgenthau was a fan of the show!), was still DA during the 19 years the show originally aired! He retired in 2009.

I was looking at his wiki page, and also at the images of him, and I can't tell if his portrait is the one we almost always saw during Adam's run on this show.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don't know why I didn't know this before, but Robert Morgenthau, who Adam Schiff was loosely based on (Morgenthau was a fan of the show!), was still DA during the 19 years the show originally aired! He retired in 2009.

I was looking at his wiki page, and also at the images of him, and I can't tell if his portrait is the one we almost always saw during Adam's run on this show.

Interesting.
His office prosecuted cases that were later the basis for L&O episodes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Morgenthau#Selected_cases

[Prairie Rose]

Eerie similarities???

[shapeshifter]

51 minutes ago, Prairie Rose said:

Eerie similarities???

Which Sesame Street character is this (I mean the one on the left🤣)?

Regardless, I can totally hear/imagine Sam Waterston heartily laughing at this comparison.

[Prairie Rose]

31 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Which Sesame Street character is this (I mean the one on the left🤣)?

Regardless, I can totally hear/imagine Sam Waterston heartily laughing at this comparison.

He's Sam the Eagle of The Muppet Show! 😂

[Prevailing Wind]

Well, they're both named Sam and have serious eyebrows.

[Prairie Rose]

58 minutes ago, Prevailing Wind said:

Well, they're both named Sam and have serious eyebrows.

And both of them can lecture (Sam W. as Jack in his ADA days) until the cows come home!!! 😉😂

[Xeliou66]

A few thoughts about season 21 that I thought I would post here -

I wish there would be more interaction between the police and DA’s. There have only been a total of a couple of brief scenes between the DA’s and police, I would like more interaction there, it would be interesting to get more of a feel for how these cops and DA’s work together and would make it feel more like a team effort.

I wish they would introduce some recurring characters, they don’t even have to be characters from the first 20 seasons, but the detectives haven’t visited the ME or the forensics people once yet, and they missed an opportunity to have a psych expert in the last episode.

I would like for them to flesh out Lt Dixon more - let her talk to a victim’s family, or talk to a witness or suspect, Van Buren used to do that some. Right now, Dixon seems to just tell Bernard and Cosgrove that the higher ups are breathing down her neck and she wants answers and that’s it, she’s not a bad character but she is the one we have the least amount of a feel for.

Finally, and this is a small thing, I would like an ending of the DA’s getting in the elevator at the office instead of ending every episode at the courthouse, I love that they are giving us classic L&O openings of ordinary people stumbling on a crime scene, now give us a classic ending of the DA’s getting in the elevator discussing the case with fitting final lines.

[Columbo]

Hypothetical question: You've just been arrested for murder in Manhattan by the NYPD of the 27th precinct. 

Which lawyer from the law and order original universe do you want representing you if you are:

A: Completely innocent

B: So guilty that even Hamilton Burger could get a conviction.

Different lawyers for the two scenarios or the same?

 

Also you have unlimited funds when choosing your lawyer.

 

Alternatively, which lawyer would you hate to represent you?

[Door County Cherry]

Dworkin. I think maybe for either.  Tenacious.  Crafty.  Deep knowledge of the law and legal tricks. 

[Xeliou66]

If I wanted one of the defense lawyers from L&O to represent me, I would choose either Randy Dworkin (he could come up with a clever defense for anyone, even the blatantly guilty) or if I had money I might go with Arthur Gold, he was a sharp lawyer, I like Charles Garnett as well.

[balmz]

here's a question i saw from reddit once, what are the weirdest but not necessarily bad episodes in the series?

 

the one that was a reference to jon and kate plus 8 is one for me, very odd but i liked it, partly because at the time my family loved the show, different but in a good way imo, i know people can object when it's too different, aftershock is the best example 

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, balmz said:

here's a question i saw from reddit once, what are the weirdest but not necessarily bad episodes in the series?

 

the one that was a reference to jon and kate plus 8 is one for me, very odd but i liked it, partly because at the time my family loved the show, different but in a good way imo, i know people can object when it's too different, aftershock is the best example 

Seer from season 13 about the guy who thought he was psychic was very weird, but I still like the episode pretty good. Prisoner of Love from season 1 was kind of strange with the bizarre S&M relationship between the socialite and the art commissioner. And season 9’s Disciple was rather weird with Sister Rosa claiming to hear a saint’s voice and the exorcism stuff.

[Mellowyellow]

I looooove this show so much!!! What are the chances of getting another season?

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I looooove this show so much!!! What are the chances of getting another season?

From what I hear chances are good that they renew L&O for season 22 - I think everyone is expecting it to come back, especially since SVU has already been renewed for season 24.

I love L&O as well, it’s my favorite show of all time, and I’m greatly enjoying having new episodes, I know some people have criticized season 21 but I’m enjoying it, I don’t think the writing is quite as good as L&O at its best, but it’s still great to have new episodes and I like each of the new characters pretty good. 

[Mellowyellow]

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

From what I hear chances are good that they renew L&O for season 22 - I think everyone is expecting it to come back, especially since SVU has already been renewed for season 24.

I love L&O as well, it’s my favorite show of all time, and I’m greatly enjoying having new episodes, I know some people have criticized season 21 but I’m enjoying it, I don’t think the writing is quite as good as L&O at its best, but it’s still great to have new episodes and I like each of the new characters pretty good. 

I squealed when the theme music played in EP 1!!! I thought it would be a brand new reboot (and in some ways it is). I didn't realize they could get JACK back!!!!! Hubby and I feel like we've been through a whole lifetime with Jack so it was like "Arghhhh OMG they have Jack!!!!!!!!!"

We've only just finished Ep3 but I'm giddy everytime I turn it on. It was staple in our lives a when we discovered it more than a decade ago! We followed the new seasons (new for back then) and managed to watch most of the early seasons.

I love it! I've loved and left shows but I stayed with the Mothership! It always delivered for me. It wasn't perfect but it delivered.

 

 

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

I squealed when the theme music played in EP 1!!! I thought it would be a brand new reboot (and in some ways it is). I didn't realize they could get JACK back!!!!! Hubby and I feel like we've been through a whole lifetime with Jack so it was like "Arghhhh OMG they have Jack!!!!!!!!!"

We've only just finished Ep3 but I'm giddy everytime I turn it on. It was staple in our lives a when we discovered it more than a decade ago! We followed the new seasons (new for back then) and managed to watch most of the early seasons.

I love it! I've loved and left shows but I stayed with the Mothership! It always delivered for me. It wasn't perfect but it delivered.

 

 

The Mothership has always been my favorite show - I love it’s formula of investigation + legal proceedings and focusing on two separate but equally important groups, the police and DA’s, with very minimal personal stuff. This season has strictly followed the formula which is the most important thing, as long as they do that the show will be solid, say what you want about this season’s writers but they’ve gotten the formula right, although I would like to see more interactions between the police and DA’s.

And yeah it’s a real treat to have Jack back on our screens, Sam Waterston still brings a lot of passion to the character and is the face of the franchise, and I hope he stays with the show for as long as it airs. Jack doesn’t have as big of a role as he used to, but I’m fine with that, he still does a great job in the scenes he’s in. I’m liking all of the characters in season 21, I had concerns about Cosgrove at the start but he’s been better than I expected. 

[balmz]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CdrdFkRj-Y6/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

huh did't know michael mortarity wrote for the simpsons

[Mellowyellow]

The reboot has got me itching to watch some old eps!

I would love some recommendations for the older seasons. I've think I've watched the season where the lady who dates Jack dies in a car crash (possibly not the stuff before that), seen the Serena years, the Abbie and Alexandra years onwards.

Thanks in advance!

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, Mellowyellow said:

The reboot has got me itching to watch some old eps!

I would love some recommendations for the older seasons. I've think I've watched the season where the lady who dates Jack dies in a car crash (possibly not the stuff before that), seen the Serena years, the Abbie and Alexandra years onwards.

Thanks in advance!

 

Season 1-5 are the best of the early years in my opinion. I'm also a fan of the Jamie Ross years (7-8), even though I can't stand Rey Self-Righteous Arrogant Smug Curtis.

But I'm biased. I LOVE. LOVE the Ben Stone years. (1-4).

It wasn't until the season finale of season 6, "Aftershock" when Claire was killed that we learned she and Jack were an item. Though you could tell, based on how they were with each other halfway though season five-body language, some dialogue.

[Mellowyellow]

Thanks @GHScorpiosRule! I will track some down and report back! Hehe I will need to get used to the dated clothes etc

[GHScorpiosRule]

52 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Thanks @GHScorpiosRule! I will track some down and report back! Hehe I will need to get used to the dated clothes etc

And the lack of technology!🤪

[Xeliou66]

So with season 21 now in the books, I thought I would give my general thoughts on the season as a whole, both the good and the bad.

Overall, I think it’s great to have the show back, and season 21 was a success overall, even if the writing in places wasn’t up to par with a lot of previous seasons. The writers got the most important thing right - and that’s sticking to the L&O formula. The case centric, half investigation-half legal proceedings stories of the police and prosecutors with minimal personal stuff. That’s always been L&O’s formula, and the writers stuck to it, which is the most important thing.

As for the characters - it’s awesome to have Jack McCoy back on our screens, yes he doesn’t get as much screen time as he used to but it’s still a treat to see him again, and I hope Sam Waterston stays with the show for as long as possible, his scenes are always episode highlights. I like Nolan Price as lead prosecutor overall, and Maroun is fine as ADA, yes they are a bit low key but they both do their jobs well and fit in fine. On the police side of things, it’s nice to see Bernard again, and Dixon is a solid character to replace the beloved Van Buren. Cosgrove was my biggest concern, especially after the first episode where he came across as an unprofessional jackass, fortunately they toned him down after that and I’ve come to like him pretty good - yes he’s very blunt and speaks his mind, but he’s a good detective and I like his chemistry with Bernard, they make for a good pairing. I think the entire cast has pretty good chemistry together and there isn’t one character that sticks out as bad or detracts from the show, I hope everyone returns for season 22.

The writing for the individual episodes was a mixed bag - the main problems with the writing were that they relied on a couple of overdone tropes too much, one being the DA’s going for a bigger target than the original case dealt with, and the other being them getting lucky to win a conviction at the last minute. Hopefully next season now that they’ve gotten a full grip on how to write the characters they will give us more variety in cases and avoid overdoing certain tropes.

One thing I would like to see in the future - I want them to introduce more recurring characters, defense attorneys, judges, forensics people/ME’s, psych experts etc. Those minor characters added a lot to the show in its first 20 years, and I would like to see some introduced now. However I’m hesitant about wanting them to bring back past favorites after what they did to Jamie Ross - that was a disgrace, and really pissed me off, there was no excuse for throwing her under the bus just as a plot device. That never should’ve been done.

My favorite episode was episode 6 Wicked Game - it had a very good case with no glaring flaws and a good role for each character, while my least favorite episode was episode 7 Legacy, it was unoriginal with a lot of poor writing. 

Overall I think I liked season 21 more than most, maybe I’m just thrilled to have my favorite show back, but I thought season 21 was enjoyable, even if the writing didn’t measure up to the best seasons of L&O. I think it’s great that they brought the show back and I look forward to season 22 in September!!

[Mellowyellow]

I'm so excited!!! I got my hands on S3!!!

Going to watch "Prince of Darkness" because I was lurking in the quotes thread and someone brought it up.

[Mellowyellow]

Omg Prince of Darkness was so good. So so so good!!!! Freaking awesome!!!

All the twists and turns, the quippy random lawyers and judges. So exciting, so much fun and so sinister.

ETA: Ben Stone is awesome too!!!

Edited May 21, 2022 by Mellowyellow

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

Omg Prince of Darkness was so good. So so so good!!!! Freaking awesome!!!

All the twists and turns, the quippy random lawyers and judges. So exciting, so much fun and so sinister.

ETA: Ben Stone is awesome too!!!

Prince of Darkness is one of my all time favorite L&O episodes, as I’ve said over on the season 3 thread. One twist after another, great plot and a chilling, unforgettable ending.