Spencer Reid: Gorgeous Gray Matter

[normasm]

I am going to make one more short point because this is mildly off topic and probably belongs more in Reid;s topic board; but since we are discussing it here:  What Reid needs for him to not annoy me is an actual story.  Hotch and JJ having a scene discussing their kids costumes fit in with the Halloween topic and it was cute.  Hotch going out of his way to get what his son wanted to be for Halloween was also cute and it continues with the Hotchner family moving on after Haley's death that we are bound to see from time to time.  This show isn't really known for its backstories and for good reason but Reid needs one.  Hell meeting a new girl who doesn't get murdered before they go out on an actual date would work,   Plus it would give the gang all reason to have that happy/worried scene before the date or something.  You know cute.  

Hi, Accused, i hijacked your comment from the Boxed In thread. Are you saying that you have liked Reid in the past when he has had a story? I'm thinking strong story, like The Instincts/Memoriam. 

 

I'm frustrated as a Reid fan that he hasn't had a story since Maeve was slaughtered; he seems to just wimble-wimble in the background of most of the recent shows. When he does get "attention" it seems to be just a spiel or something similar.

[JMO]

Joining the conversation, as a fellow frustrated Reid fan.  I wonder if part of the problem is not just the lack of current backstory (I agree it was one of the richest, in the past), but also the inconsistency with which he is written from week to week. 

 

If I didn't feel like I already knew the character from the early years---if I was just beginning to watch the show over the past few----I would have no idea who this guy was.  One week he's empathetic, one week witty, one week robotic.  One week he's as socially competent as any of the rest, the next he's awkward, or remote.  We've seen each of those traits in the past, but they seemed to be appropriately evolving, in a way that made sense as the character matured. Now he's different every episode.

 

To make matters worse, last year the writers even managed to besmirch Reid's back story by 'curing' his mother off screen.  (I can't imagine how MGG kept his cool when he read that in the script!)  To me, it was a very telling faux pas.  I learned that the writers don't understand the importance of rich character history, nor ongoing character development.  (Well, I already knew that, but----you know...)  Then the newly created back story for JJ, to explain their errors in her characterization, cemented the impression for me.

 

 

 

[Guest Accused Dingo]

Hi, Accused, i hijacked your comment from the Boxed In thread. Are you saying that you have liked Reid in the past when he has had a story? I'm thinking strong story, like The Instincts/Memoriam.

 

 

Easy answer is yes.  I am an unpublished writer.  If interested you can find my stuff on Fanfiction.Net under the screen name FEMVAMP which I went by for while.  In this fandom I mostly posted Emily fic with hints at Emily/JJ.  I don't write anything above PG13 so I stuck mainly with the idea of Emily/JJ because those are the two I understood most.

 

Now yes I liked Reid for awhile  Not sure when it stopped.  Honestly I only watch Criminal Minds because there is nothing else on Wednesday 9.  I haven't actually enjoyed it for a long time.  But Reid is not my favorite he has never been but he hasn't annoyed be until the last few seasons.  Not sure why.  A story would probably help.  I like a good story.  The girlfriend story was interesting.  The drug story was interesting.  Hell even the am I crazy?  story was interesting.  But the show never went anywhere with any of them.  So for me Reid is a nobody character that just stands their and spouts out facts when a fact needs to be spouted out. 

[normasm]

If I didn't feel like I already knew the character from the early years---if I was just beginning to watch the show over the past few----I would have no idea who this guy was. One week he's empathetic, one week witty, one week robotic. One week he's as socially competent as any of the rest, the next he's awkward, or remote. We've seen each of those traits in the past, but they seemed to be appropriately evolving, in a way that made sense as the character matured. Now he's different every episode.

To make matters worse, last year the writers even managed to besmirch Reid's back story by 'curing' his mother off screen. (I can't imagine how MGG kept his cool when he read that in the script!) To me, it was a very telling faux pas. I learned that the writers don't understand the importance of rich character history, nor ongoing character development. (Well, I already knew that, but----you know...) Then the newly created back story for JJ, to explain their errors in her characterization, cemented the impression for me.

Well put. The cure of Dianna Reid was a breaking point for me, and perhaps for MGG, as in, "here is the last undisturbed vestige of my seminal character, I might as well put up the white flag."

Edited November 1, 2014 by normasm

[Cobalt Stargazer]

But Reid is not my favorite he has never been but he hasn't annoyed be until the last few seasons.  Not sure why.  A story would probably help.  I like a good story.  The girlfriend story was interesting.  The drug story was interesting.  Hell even the am I crazy?  story was interesting.  But the show never went anywhere with any of them.  So for me Reid is a nobody character that just stands their and spouts out facts when a fact needs to be spouted out. 

 

This has been said, but the lack of attention to Reid and storylines for Reid has been an ongoing problem, and for those of us who like him, it's as frustrating as all hell. This show has always had problems with consistent characterization, and in some ways any kind of characterization (*cough* Alex! *cough*). But it's particularly glaring in Spencer's case since, like JJ, he's been here since the beginning, and these people clearly have no idea who he is, and apparently not much interest in finding out. I don't know if that's because of the new-ish writers or because of what I see as Erica Messer's favoritism towards AJ Cook, and since I've covered the latter in detail I'll leave it at a mention this time. Perhaps he would be less of a nobody character if the writers got off of their collective tuchus and paid him some attention. In a way that isn't stupid, insulting, or soul-crushing, I mean.

[zannej]

I wonder how well Dilaudid is absorbed into the skin. I read that it can still affect someone if it gets on their skin, but I'm guessing the effects would be MUCH less when they are not intravenous. Reid might have legitimately had access to syringes for something, so he might not have needed to steal them. He's a clever guy.

 

I was thinking that maybe when Reid was taken to the hospital, he might have refused to show them his arms and only let them look at his foot and head. Since he'd just been tortured, they might not have tried to touch him too much against his will. If he refuses to cooperate with the doctors, they can't legally do anything. So, if he wouldn't let them take his blood or run tests, they couldn't forcibly take it from him. It seems that the team *was* aware that he'd been drugged though-- otherwise there would have been no suspicion of drug use. He must have had to file a report and would have talked about what happened when he was held captive. I wonder how much he shared in terms of details, and what-- if anything-- he left out. In some ways I wonder if he left out the drugging part and the team only suspected it. Because I think if the FBI higher ups knew he'd been drugged, they would have wanted to have him screened for drugs.

 

I do agree they dropped the ball on that story, but what they did do was pretty compelling. It wasn't just wrapped up in a single episode and we saw how it affected the character.

[Droogie]

Droogie, I've never had dilaudid, but demerol affects me that way - I've never been so sick, it was worse than what I was suffering from that needed painkillers. 

 .

People definitely react that way to IV opioids, especially if they're not used to them. I usually dilute it and push it very slowly, and even then, folks are often out like a light before I am even finished. And the doses are generally not huge -- maybe 1 mg. Tobias didn't dilute it. He used I believe a 5cc syringe and pulled at least 2cc into it and basically slammed it in. Pretty hefty first dose.

[normasm]

And Tobias apparently "cut it with LSD," according to Bad Teeth Man, his sponsor, so I'm assuming that had something to do with the memories? Incidentally, I love Bad Teeth Man, he's one of my sharpest attention points when I rewatch Revelations...

[SSAHotchner]

And Tobias apparently "cut it with LSD," according to Bad Teeth Man, his sponsor, so I'm assuming that had something to do with the memories? Incidentally, I love Bad Teeth Man, he's one of my sharpest attention points when I rewatch Revelations...

Yeah, I loved it when JJ and Prentiss told him that Tobias had killed his father and he said, "Good for him!"

[zannej]

I have probably already mentioned this here before, but the discussion came up on how Reid got in to the FBI in the first place. I think there is a general consensus that Gideon was the one who got Reid in to the BAU, and may have been the one who wanted him to join. But some of the continuity stuff might not take into account that Reid went to the academy with his friend Ethan. So it seems they were both on that path.

 

It would be interesting to see why Ethan wanted to join the FBI. Were both Reid AND Ethan recruited by Gideon? How close were Reid and Ethan when they were growing up. Reid talked about being the smartest kid in the class, but he also talked about competing with Ethan in spelling bees or whatever. I wonder if Ethan just went to a different school at first and then they both went to Caltech together? I think they kind of fudged on the continuity there.

 

Anyway, I got really bored and started looking stuff up about the FBI, government jobs, etc. Now, with Reid's age, there was no way in hell he would have been able to reach the proper rank to join the BAU in that timeframe if he had started out in the FBI-- he would have started out at GS10 step 1. So, in order to close the gap a little more and make sense of things, I fanwanked a rough idea of what could have happened. He got his first PhD roughly around the time he was 17. We know he got two more. Now, it would have taken 2 years each or 1 year each. He didn't have to get all 3 at Caltech. So say he transferred to MIT for one degree. Anyway, an internship would have been required for the degree. So perhaps he interned at a government job that involved something in his field somehow-- maybe research area of the government. In the government, there is something called "time in grade" which counts as experience required toward getting a higher rank. Special Agents are around GS13. Supervisory Special Agents are GS14. (The highest rank is GS15 step 10 -- although there is little point in going beyond step 4 or 5 because there is a salary cap of $155,500 before taxes). Education counts toward "time in grade" and can allow someone to enter or get a boost to a higher grade when joining. In LEO positions, the highest a PhD could get someone was GS11, but if someone starts in a research position it can be GS12. So, say Reid started out at a GS12 in a research department-- something involving collecting data and compiling statistics. Maybe he met Gideon at college first and Gideon encouraged him to go whatever route he could to join the FBI or maybe it was Ethan's idea after meeting Gideon. Or maybe Reid was the one who encouraged Ethan to join with him or something.

 

But Reid would already be in a government position at say age 19 or 20. If his work was excellent he could actually get two promotions in a year (one is the standard promotion that is pretty much automatic, and the other is a Quality Step Increase- QSI). Reid could have had enough equivalent experience to qualify to transfer over to the FBI at a GS13 or GS14 position. I still think he did at least 6 months at a desk job in the FBI before getting in to the BAU. Gideon was probably the Unit Chief at that time, so he likely picked Reid to join the team. Maybe Reid could even have worked as Gideon's assistant prior to joining the BAU.

 

But anyway, going the research path in government first would make more sense to me because Reid had to get some experience somewhere. He reads government reports and likes statistics, so something in that line would make sense to me. Maybe just compiling data was not enough and he wanted to actually study people's minds and help save people. I do think his initial interest in the BAU was more academic in that I think he wanted to understand aberrant behavior and thoughts. 

 

I hope that all made sense...

 

If anyone is really bored http://szejo.tumblr.com/post/1351695121/faq-how-much-does-reid-get-paid

 

I could use some feedback on that to make it more straightforward. I've been told it is convoluted and a bit difficult to follow, but I have this stream of consciousness thing going all the time, so I don't streamline very well. I need to update it for the current season.

Edited November 11, 2014 by zannej

[ForeverAlone]

And this is where the show has made contradictory aspects to Reid's story. Granted, I think there is not one single character who has a consistent background, and Reid's contradictions aren't as great as Hotch's. So when it comes to contradictions, you have to wonder what is considered the "real" canon. Maybe it comes down to what each viewer prefers, but it shouldn't be. I have never been a fan of Reid on a subconscious path to the FBI, and his choice of degrees really doesn't match that in the slightest. 

 

Here's my problem with Ethan. Since I don't think he was ever presented as a child prodigy like Reid (at least that was never made explicit in "Jones"), he would have been six years older than Reid. I think Reid was around 22 when he entered the FBI, so that would have made Ethan about 28. I can't recall if Ethan had the same number of degrees as Reid, or if he was working in some other job at that time. For most people, unless they have some very specialized degree, they must have a couple years of prior work experience (one of the reasons I always gave a bit of side eye to JJ and Reid being so young and a SSA, but that was just one of those weird setups like the plane and the tactical raids you just have to accept). I just have a hard time reconciling what was said in Jones with what was said in other episodes. 

[zannej]

Actually, JJ's ID showed her as just being an SA, not an SSA in earlier seasons. I can't remember when she got bumped up to SSA, but she didn't start out as one. I think she actually had enough years in to get SSA later on.

 

IIRC, what they said about Ethan off-screen was that he was Reids' rival with one IQ point higher than Reid. I do think that he looked older than Reid though. I wish they would clarify that on the show at some point. Sadly, I don't think they even remember he existed.

[Watermelon]

Who the hell is Ethan????  I've seen most episodes, but an Ethan who's a friend of Reid never stuck out to me.

[ForeverAlone]

Ethan was Reid's friend in the season two episode "Jones" who he meets up with in New Orleans and Ethan's advice helps Reid get on the straight and narrow. He hasn't been mentioned since then though. 

[zannej]

What little we know about Ethan is that he was Reid's friend (not sure where they met), they competed in spelling bees against one another, they started the FBI Academy together, but Ethan dropped out the first day. He said he was "more interested in Jack Daniels than Jack the Ripper". He ended up moving to New Orleans where he was a musician in a bar (I think he played piano keyboard or something). Reid was ditching work and ignoring phonecalls (he lied to the team and later said he didn't have reception). Ethan told him he could see that Reid was "not well" and said that if Reid thought a team full of profilers didn't notice, then that was pretty dumb of Reid. Gideon showed up at the bar at the end and Reid told him he was "struggling" but that he was thinking about what life would be like without the job. He decided the job was more important and he would "never miss another plane" or something like that.

 

I can only assume that Ethan was someone Reid encountered after high school or a bit later in life because he seemed quite alone earlier on.

[normasm]

IIRC, what they said about Ethan off-screen was that he was Reids' rival with one IQ point higher than Reid. I do think that he looked older than Reid though. I wish they would clarify that on the show at some point. Sadly, I don't think they even remember he existed.

I have never heard that Ethan had a higher IQ than Reid. I know they were rivals, but i always thought Ethan was a bit older and very smart. I will grant you the writers didn't do a good job of making that clear. It would have been easy to do.

[zannej]

I have never heard that Ethan had a higher IQ than Reid. I know they were rivals, but i always thought Ethan was a bit older and very smart. I will grant you the writers didn't do a good job of making that clear. It would have been easy to do.

It was mentioned in an old interview with Matthew. I can't remember it. Something where he talked about Reid's drug problems and such.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I don't know if this belongs here or in the obsession thread, but I watched Angels and Demons back to back on ION tonight, and Spencer's final scene with Alex has me all verklempt. I suppose it's kind of fitting. He didn't get to say goodbye to Elle, and Emily left for stupid reasons, so I guess he deserved to be the one to see Alex out the door. It's a little subtle, but if you look you can see his expression shift as he realizes that she's telling him she's leaving without actually saying the words, even before he finds her credentials in his satchel along with the book Maeve gave him. It's a testament to both Gubler and Tripplehorn that the scene had as much gravitas as it did, since the writing before that had barely given Alex a chance to shine, and when Spencer goes to the window to see her hail the taxi that will take her out of his life, I wonder what he's thinking. It shouldn't hurt, but it does.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Cobalt Stargazer

[normasm]

Oh, it definitely does. Once again, someone he "got" and who "got" him is gone. He's a much stronger man now, but, yeah, it still hurts.

 

Oh, the subtext running across that gorgeous face! That's acting to me when the shift you see is only in the eyes. He does that better than almost anyone.

[Droogie]

I wonder, being the eternal optimist, if a couple or three Easter Eggs weren't laid during Season 9:

1. JJ implies Reid doesn't understand Hotch potentially leaving the field bc he doesn't have children. Reid says that he would've and trails off. JJ says, "You still will."

2. Reid delivers a baby.

3. Alex and JJ discussing that he wants children as he was in surgery and Alex saying that a kid would be lucky to have Spencer as a dad.

I wonder if the plan is ultimately to give him a family, if the show continues. They need to hurry.

[normasm]

I love the way you think, Droogie, but i'll believe it when i see it. And they do need to hurry. I'm thinking MGG's following Shemar's lead soon.

 

I wouldn't be totally opposed to Reid finding a kid and not a girlfriend/wife, it could be plausible. Or even finding a woman who has a kid. Just so he's not so damn lonely...

[Droogie]

I wouldn't be opposed either but I want Reid to have the fairy tale. He deserves it. Even if he were to somehow end up with a child, somehow I feel like he would be missing out unless he had romantic love to go with it. JMHO.

[normasm]

Oh, yes, i agree. I wish we were writers on the show. ;) 

[Droogie]

Oh gosh, me too. Is there any way to write to them? Not like a squealing crazy fanatic but as someone who loves the show and wants resolution before it's all over??

[zannej]

I'm trying to find the post, normasm, about the nerdist thing with Erica Messer where she indicated that Matthew said "no" to the idea of going back to the drug story again. 

 

I would love a transcript of what she says-- particularly the stuff involving Matthew and Reid.

 

I do think Matthew probably wants happier things for Reid. Everyone else is getting happy stories and Reid just gets shat upon.

[normasm]

If you haven't found it by now, it's in the spoiler section, sweety

[Racbec]

Can anyone tell me what episode MGG will be directing this fall? I haven't seen any news about it. I thought he was directing two again this season.

[normasm]

Apparently he won't direct this fall. He was supposed to direct the one that will be on next week. He has said in an interview that he will direct an episode in January. Don't know if that means he'll have another episode in the spring, i'm guessing not. What that means, i don't know.

Edited November 13, 2014 by normasm

[Old Dog]

I will give my eternal devotion to anyone who can post a shot of the bit where Reid and Morgan say "No Comment" in unison and then walk into the crime scene. Reid has never looked better. I wish I was tech savvy!

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I will give my eternal devotion to anyone who can post a shot of the bit where Reid and Morgan say "No Comment" in unison and then walk into the crime scene. Reid has never looked better. I wish I was tech savvy!

 

I looked for that shot online in a gif and unfortunately couldn't find it. I will, however, be sending you my therapy bill, because when I googled I noticed that 'Morgan/Reid MPreg' was also a common search term, and I could have gone for the rest of my life without knowing that was a thing. :-P

[normasm]

CoStar, you innocent child...

[Old Dog]

You obviously don't read enough fanfiction Cobalt! There is plenty of Hotch/Reid MPreg also! But thanks for looking - I love that you tried.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

There is plenty of Hotch/Reid MPreg also! But thanks for looking - I love that you tried.

 

Maybe this just means I'm a hypocrite, but I mind the idea with Hotch less than I do with Morgan. The only one who treats Reid with less respect and more condescension is JJ, so it isn't so much the MPreg factor, it's the Morgan factor.

[Old Dog]

Agreed Cobalt. Hotch/Reid is far more acceptable than Morgan/Reid! I read far too much fanfiction - I'll have a go at anything with Reid in and I have certainly been enlightened about all kinds of relationships!

[Old Dog]

 

yum!

[zannej]

I wish Reid had been wearing dark sunglasses and taken them off as well. Would have been funny. LoL.

[Old Dog]

When you see him next to Shemar you can see there must be a very nice body under that suit. He's come a long way from the skinny kid in Season 1!

[zannej]

He's actually had somewhat muscular arms for a long time. If you see his appearance in RV (aka Runaway Vacation) which starred Robin Williams, you can see that he had pretty buff arms even back then. He buffed them up more when he was using crutches. He's buffed up his legs because I think he does soulcycling. His last known ex-girlfriend was big into it and his sister got into it.

 

From RV

 

Just for no particular reason, here's a gif of Reid and his Mom from Memoriam

[normasm]

zannej, what are you doing?! Trying to make me giddy or something?

[Droogie]

He's actually had somewhat muscular arms for a long time. If you see his appearance in RV (aka Runaway Vacation) which starred Robin Williams, you can see that he had pretty buff arms even back then. He buffed them up more when he was using crutches. He's buffed up his legs because I think he does soulcycling. His last known ex-girlfriend was big into it and his sister got into it.

 

From RV

I bought that movie just for those three minutes. *hangs head*

[zannej]

I bought that movie just for those three minutes. *hangs head*

So did I. It was in the $5 bin though. I wish I'd found the Critereon one that had the intern video. It was better than the actual film.

 

Also MGG in a wheelchair in July 2009:

 

And another pic of him on a summer vacation. Looks like someone had an appendectomy.

I am so bored right now. I should just go play World of Warcraft but I wanted my characters to build up some rested xp.

[normasm]

He must have been pretty young when he lost his appendix.

 

 

I've never seen his belly button.

 

 

I can smell the beer on his breath.

[Droogie]

He must have been pretty young when he lost his appendix.

 

 

I've never seen his belly button.

 

 

I can smell the beer on his breath.

My, my, my. He looks delightfully grimy.

[zannej]

He must have been pretty young when he lost his appendix.

 

 

I've never seen his belly button.

 

 

I can smell the beer on his breath.

LOL. Yeah, that is the old style incision he has there. The surgeon started to cut me in that same spot, but then decided to go lower so any scar would be under my bikini line. I was told that my appendix wasn't in the right place. I need to find the photo of my appendix with the name of my surgeon (Dr. Ernest Wong Wing Kwong). I've heard that after the 90s or so they started doing laparoscopic surgeries-- although the guy who played Daniel Jackson on SG1 has a HUGE scar because his appendix ruptured and he had to have emergency surgery. Fortunately for him he was already at the doctor's office (arguing with the doctor about not wanting surgery) when it ruptured. I wonder if Matthew's surgery was before he gained weight in middle school. It might have reduced his activity a bit.

[Monx]

Good lord that is a huge belly button. I remember him making a joke about it on Craig Ferguson a while ago. You could definitely lose something in there.

Wow. You know you have a problem when you remember facts about a celebrity's belly button......

[zannej]

I don't remember Matthew talking about his bellybutton before...

I know they said he has an extra rib somewhere (I think his left side) when he was on Oddities.

 

I don't think it looks huge. Looks normal to me. LOL.

[normasm]

They say all kinds of ridic stuff on Oddities! It would be more plausible if they said he had 2 extra ribs, since the cell division of that skeletal structure is bilateral and symmetrical

[zannej]

I think its possible for him to have the extra rib. I've read about people having one extra rib (you are right that its more common to have an extra pair of ribs)-- although it usually occurs in women rather than men. Of course, it could have just been some BS for the show. He might have joked about it and they wrote it down.

Edited November 15, 2014 by zannej

[SSAHotchner]

I don't know if this belongs here or in the obsession thread, but I watched Angels and Demons back to back on ION tonight, and Spencer's final scene with Alex has me all verklempt. I suppose it's kind of fitting. He didn't get to say goodbye to Elle, and Emily left for stupid reasons, so I guess he deserved to be the one to see Alex out the door. It's a little subtle, but if you look you can see his expression shift as he realizes that she's telling him she's leaving without actually saying the words, even before he finds her credentials in his satchel along with the book Maeve gave him. It's a testament to both Gubler and Tripplehorn that the scene had as much gravitas as it did, since the writing before that had barely given Alex a chance to shine, and when Spencer goes to the window to see her hail the taxi that will take her out of his life, I wonder what he's thinking. It shouldn't hurt, but it does.

I agree Cobalt. I watched the episodes on ION, too.

[Monx]

 

 

I don't remember Matthew talking about his bellybutton before...

I know they said he has an extra rib somewhere (I think his left side) when he was on Oddities.

I don't think it looks huge. Looks normal to me. LOL.

LOL okay huge may have been a bit strong, more like thick? I dunno my vocabulary for belly button size is limited….I need help.

Anyway here’s the link, he mentions it around 3:20.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe077Q1YzeY