Spencer Reid: Gorgeous Gray Matter

[Danielg342]

It's actually safer to hug and kiss on the cheek than it is to shake hands, since you're more likely to get germs into your body if they're on your hands (since from your hands you'd transfer them via scratching your eye or licking your finger or eating or something) than through a hug or a cheek kiss (since, although germs can pass through air, it's not as likely and you need to breathe in someone's face for it to *really* work, and that would be one awkward hug).

So that could be one explanation for Howie Mandel's and Reid's behaviour.

[Danielg342]

https://twitter.com/GUBLERNATION/status/3091118963

^ That's the tweet right there where Gubler says Reid is a germaphobe. Says he tried for a while to "enforce" it on set to mixed reactions. It's dated August 2, 2009, so it was done while filming for Season 5.

[zannej]

Thanks, I could have sworn that there was some indication that he tried to push it and the people in charge resisted. I think maybe because they were giving him so little he might have been able to sway the current writers to throw him a bone to make up for it-- of course, that would be if the current writers would actually admit that they barely use him (with the exception of Sharon).

Here's a screenshot to save it for posterity.

[MCatry]

Thanks, I could have sworn that there was some indication that he tried to push it and the people in charge resisted. I think maybe because they were giving him so little he might have been able to sway the current writers to throw him a bone to make up for it-- of course, that would be if the current writers would actually admit that they barely use him (with the exception of Sharon).

I think that is one of the biggest difference between the 'now and then CM'.

The old managers had a vision on the show's concept, as well as for each one of the characters. They used to leave some tips here and there, and then we, the viewers, would complete it with our own imagination.

Now the new managers aim to please everyone. Gubler wants Reid to be a germaphobe, he got it. He wants to insert himself from time to time, he can (several Reid's reactions have been more Gubler-like than Reid-like). Regarding germaphobia, and judging by the way he plays it, he really doesn't know what it is, and how it works. Nevertheless, he just introduced small changes, which I don't like, but others may. If you think about it, almost everyone gets to do what they want in CM.

Mantegna wanted to do stories related to the military, and he got several episodes. He and Gibson want to direct, they do. Vangsness and Cook wanted their characters to be more relevant and they got that too. Cook wanted her character to be more physical, she got that. This extends to the writers too: they want to write bizarre stories, they can. They want to do mini-action movies, they do that. They want to write about women power, and there you have a bunch of episodes I won't ever watch again. That is how chaos spread around. You cannot have a bunch of well-intentioned people doing what they think is better, without having a boss that moderate the wishes and ideas they have. Every individual person has personal desires, but they are working in one show, and not a new one, but an old one who was already settled. They change the back story of most of the characters, just because there is no one that get a grip of what happens with continuity.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Gubler wants Reid to be a germaphobe, he got it. He wants to insert himself from time to time, he can (several Reid's reactions have been more Gubler-like than Reid-like). Regarding germaphobia, and judging by the way he plays it, he really doesn't know what it is, and how it works. Nevertheless, he just introduced small changes, which I don't like, but others may. If you think about it, almost everyone gets to do what they want in CM.

 

It's an interesting idea that Gubler is the one who wanted Reid to be a germophobe, and so the writers or whoever are letting him, but I don't think it's an apt comparison between that and the other things you mentioned. Having a phobia isn't really a storyline unless it gets explored, IMO, and the last we heard Messer put the kibosh on the return of Reid's drug addiction because he didn't want to do that again, and I don't blame him for that. Rossi's military plots, Morgan's relationship with Savannah, JJ's PTSD, Garcia and her magical computer, all of these things have gotten screen time, and JJ's PTSD in particular surfaced after a long.....dormancy? Or something. The most we've seen of this possible phobia of Reid's is that he no longer shakes hands, and that's not a story so much as it is a quirk. It's the job of the writers to give the characters things to do, and if they are trying to please everyone, they're not just short-changing Reid and Gubler, they're also short-changing Gibson and Hotch, since Aaron hasn't had a plot of his own in ages. He may get to direct, but when his character only shows up to act like a robot, that can't please him very much.

[MCatry]

It's an interesting idea that Gubler is the one who wanted Reid to be a germophobe, and so the writers or whoever are letting him, but I don't think it's an apt comparison between that and the other things you mentioned. Having a phobia isn't really a storyline unless it gets explored, IMO, and the last we heard Messer put the kibosh on the return of Reid's drug addiction because he didn't want to do that again, and I don't blame him for that. Rossi's military plots, Morgan's relationship with Savannah, JJ's PTSD, Garcia and her magical computer, all of these things have gotten screen time, and JJ's PTSD in particular surfaced after a long.....dormancy? Or something. The most we've seen of this possible phobia of Reid's is that he no longer shakes hands, and that's not a story so much as it is a quirk. It's the job of the writers to give the characters things to do, and if they are trying to please everyone, they're not just short-changing Reid and Gubler, they're also short-changing Gibson and Hotch, since Aaron hasn't had a plot of his own in ages. He may get to direct, but when his character only shows up to act like a robot, that can't please him very much.

Fair enough regarding comparisons. Still, Gubler ventured his character was Asperger, then germaphobe, but he doesn't really play him as if he knows what his doing (concerning those issues). If the writers would have embrace those personal comments, Reid may be played different, but true is none of them bothered to look what they were talking about. Then again, as you said, Gubler didn't want to do the drug story line, so he doesn't. He didn't wanted Maeve to be permanent, so she is killed. That is the problem I am pointing out here: there is no real boss that has a master plan with a define direction for the show. Ideas are popping out here and there, and the managers allow them just do them all. I am not saying that Gubler is the only one, or that his collaborations are indeed changing the whole show. It is pretty obvious that other members of the cast have done that to a much bigger extent. Still, my point is that the showrunner allowed that to happen.

Hence, the one who shouts louder gets what he/she wants.

Sometimes I think not Gibson nor Gubler are really interested in this show anymore, and I doubt they would complain for the lack of screen time. If their storylines are tiny-to-non-existent, then they have a lot of free time to prepare/do other projects they really want to do. I don't know what would take for Gibson to sign a new contract. Gubler seems to be the type of guy that wouldn't quit, even if he is dying for, in order to do something more appealing for his taste.

What came first? They, being bored, or lousy stories that bored them to death?

We may never know.

[zannej]

I know that I assumed that the dropped storyline was Reid's drug one because he didn't want to do it, but I wonder if its possible that another actor nixed a story idea. Well, the chances of that are very slim though. I personally think that even though Gubler speaks very fondly of the writers and praises their work, he may not actually be happy with it. I'm guessing if he was the one to nix a story idea, then maybe its because he realized that the current writers weren't capable of pulling it off. He said he stopped watching the show in season 5. To me,that is an indication that he knows something is wrong. Simon Mirren said in an interview that he doesn't watch the show either.

 

Of course, my speculation about Gubler's motives are just that-- I could be completely off base here.

 

If the show goes another season, I hope they ditch some of the weaker writers and possibly get some good strong writers-- although I'm worried that new writers wouldn't be able to get the personalities right. It would have to be someone who watched the first four seasons of the show-- someone who can see what the show is about and get the gist of the characters (but not regress them back to their season 1 states).

[Racbec]

Does anyone know if MGG is working on any projects during the hiatus?

[chasin]

Someone said, Shemar leads in Instagram, but hello?

He started it like almost one and a half year ago before Matthew.

And actually its gap keeps smaller and smaller.

Besides haven't you ever noticed the numbers of FAVs?

Matthew's ALWAYS WIN even at Instagram over Shemar. LOL.

And if you think FB means the international, you really don't know the world standard and what's happening in

FB.

First of all, it's so obvious that Matthew isn't on FB AT ALL, which never pulls any followers.

Seriously the summer in 2013 he posted a pic without using twitter app, the number of followers graw FAST. Just 2 or 3 pics did that.

Secondly, YOU CAN BUY FB's LIKES and FAVs.

I think this became already the common sence.LOL.

FB and Instagram are taking their hands, so actually the followers on these two platforms mean how much paid the pages are.

I'm Misha Collins and Darren Criss fan, and I know the number of their followers in FB, it was smaller than Shemar who is paid by CBS.

HELLO? Well, HELLO?????????

And even the number of JGL's follower is smaller.

BUT EVERYONE including those living OUTSIDE of USA knows JGL, Misha and Darren HAVE MORE FANS.

BUT.

LOOK AT Twitter.

Twitter's followers or favs aren't on sale, well untill "recently".

And on twitter Misha, JGL and Darren all have bigger number of Shemar.

Yesyes, I know. Shemar started Twitter lately, but sorry, at the rate of followers' increasing MATTHEW wins, so do all three I've mentioned.

Well, bigger followers call more followers, so increasing rate means nothing, you may say, but then WHY Matthew's Instagram increases a bit faster than Shemar Moom especially when Matthew is never on FB and never post Instagram pic on FB?

Normally, if you really wanna talk about international fanbase, iMDB starmeter which costs a bit is the one Hollywood makers do count on.

And it says Matthew is mostly on top among other casts,

and Shemar is actually almost the same as Thomas.

Well, I haven't checked it for a while, so it may change.

B/C CBS does know it, that's why they keep spotlighting only on Shemar Moore.

Matthew is the top, which is unconvienient fact for them who love love love Shemar. Or paid by Shemar's agency.

Seriously. When Shemar blows Matthew out on Instagram? LOL. When favs for Matthew's pic is like easily 60k but Shemar's best shot pic is like 36k or something? And the

comments.

The young use FB, IG and Twitter, all three??

Hello? FB is sooooo 2012 and dead media now.

And if you really wanna talk about International fans, hello! I'm living in Asia, and most of CM fans are Gubler fans, not the others! Well, secondly Thomas.

Like in China or Japan, I forgot I just found it on Twitter, the result of voting for favorite TV drama actors -it seemed crime drama only tho, Matt Bomer, Matthew Gray Gubler and Benedict Cumberbatch are the top three and Shemar? Hello? I couldn't find any such name

SURPRISE?! Huh?

Real international talking, right?

International Fanbase judged by FB??????

I mean... pleeeaase! No real people are using FB thesedays!

And if Shemar is way more popular than Matthew, which is "only" shown by FB, WHY EVERY Morgan centric ep drops

rating when Reid's centrics almost always increases viewerships???

And if FB's number is soooo reliable, Matthew is nothing, even JGL is nothing, then WHY JUST TWITTER VOTES Shemar can NEVER WIN OVER Matthew???

Age difference? Oh PLEASE.

Then Shemar Moore fans are ALL OVER40 years old, and

almost no one in Twitter. LOLOL.

Then is that kind of guy OK to be called, "popular"???????

DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH.

And at Instagram, no one who don't care about Criminal Minds thinks Shemar wins over Matthew. LOLOL.

Matthew's acct collects followers slightly faster than Shemar, even when he doesn't post so often as Shemar. Besides Shemar's pics collect much less favs.

I think if you really wanna see how much SNS's numbers are reliable, compared to others and see balances,

I've never trusted Shemar's FB number, cos other actors who have that number do have over millions followers on Twitter too. And about Instagram, for example Tom Felton has almost the same followers as Shemar, but favs for Felton pics are waaaay bigger than Shemar, which is normal.

It depends on how much percents of followers do acctivate if the number including comments isn't bought or not.

Huge followers, too small favs means the numbers are actually bought.

Celebs do pay millions to spread their pics and to get favs and comments.

Trust me. Cos I once worked a company to do comment and push fav on FB for some riches.

Anyway. The point is

1. Being on the platform or not is the key factor to whether followers increase or not.

Especially at FB the tendency is evident.

FB is supposed to be the tool for peeking others' real life, right? That may be why.

Matthew isn't on FB and the one who hides every private from others, almost never replies to his fans.

Well, even I don't see any merits to follow his FB acct...

2. Matthew started IG way later, and post less than Shemar, still collects way more favs.

3. The number of favs for Shemar's pic in IG is too low even compared to other celebs who have near number of followers of Shemar.

4. The number of FB and IG's followers means actually nothing to do with real popularity.

Cos the biggest users of FB are AFFILIATORS and they fav the one who media push.

CBS or Erica the idiot LOOOOVE Shemar and keep advertising only him.

Well, affiliators or paid bloggers love that kind of useful idio...sorry, I'm saying too much.

5. If you wanna talk International, well at least in Japan or Korea or China or whatever -Idk their languages I can't read them, but I think it was Japanese, thnx to Micheal from 5SOS- Matthew is the one real popular actor, and Shemar is nothing.

And for me who live abroad, Shemar seems to be ONLY popular in USA and may be Canada nd UK, but nowhere else...oh, may be in FR? Cos he is half French?

Like in Latin countries I think Matthew literally blows him out. And in Asia, well Japan or China doesn't mean Asia but still...the actor ranked in the 2nd and the actor even not mentioned are different, I suppose.

6. If Shemar is so popular as CBS wishes and lame FB shows, he can beat Nathan Fillion easily at PCA or win over Simon Baker at least, but NOT.

I do wish Matthew left this show. No one appreciates him.

And Thomas too. I feel Thomas is the one who is loved

by international viewers, followed by Matthew.

And I don't like Shemar. Because he does know Matthew and Thomas are neglected by CM showrunners but say nothing toward it.

I wish Shemar was like a big brother as Morgan "used to" be.

It's no use wishing here for Matthew, still I can't stop.

I'm really done with CBS attitude toward Matthew.

He is too sweet to stay there.

"Please raise your voice to get more screentime and storyline for Reid, and for yourself! Don't care about Shemar who can never stand up to fight with the bullies to his coworkers!" That's what I shout out at Matthew.

If Shemar leaves the show, I'll be happy to be back to watch this show. And not sorry for saying this.

Because if the show comes back just a bit to Reid and Hotch, I really think ratings will slowly recover.

And more than all, I'm really mad at their ruining Matthew's career.

[ForeverAlone]

You probably should calm down, because none of this is that serious.

Edited April 3, 2015 by ForeverAlone

[Droogie]

Inspired by another forum, what are some Reid story lines you'd like to see? I'm operating on the premise that there will be a Season 11, and that the writers would actually write something of substance for the character.

Here are some of mine:

1) Of course, my first concern is Reid's (lack of) love life. I want him to find someone he wants to spend his life with. I'd love a scene in which something like this happened: say, Morgan has a fight with Savannah and shows up at Reid's door with pizza and beer. It takes Reid awhile to answer and he barely opens the door, looking a little worse for wear. A feminine arm wraps around him and pulls him back inside. Morgan is left wondering just what happened.

2) Reid has to be acting chief for whatever reason and is very good at it. Hotch praises him after the fact.

3) Reid speaks at a conference or teaches a class at the academy and is actually great at it,

4) He kicks down a door. Morgan is suitably impressed.

5) He and Rossi collaborate on a book somehow. A friendship is strengthened and hilarious bickering ensues.

6) He completely owns a suspect, a la Uncanny Valley.

7) He and Morgan go out for the evening and women (not just ladies of the evening) are hitting on him. He is not necessarily clueless.

Since the writers can't seem to do it, we must. Ideas?

[zannej]

I think it would be funny if they were at a DC or Virginia bar and Morgan got a little flirty with a woman and she rejected him but then flirted with Reid.

 

In terms of the job, I would love to see Reid use his knowledge of philosophy and logic to just totally confuse the hell out of a suspect or someone who is withholding information.

 

I wouldn't mind Reid actually getting his own house in Virginia and really putting down roots and being comfortable and happy with his life. He could get an old home that was being auctioned because it was confiscated from criminals and then Morgan could come help fix it up.

 

I want to see the return of the friendship between Garcia and Reid. Garcia is usually only focused on herself or Morgan, so it would be nice to see them having conversations-- maybe she could even mention that he used to like computers and ask him why he started disliking technology and we can get his answer.

 

I'd love to see them run in to some of Reid's classmates from Caltech and find that they actually like him and they can be somehow involved in the case. Would love to see them go to Caltech and go in to the steam tunnels. We could find out a bit more about his college days.

 

Mostly, I just want to see them treat him like an adult and a genius and work with the team and not just be left behind, talked over, treated like a kid, or treated like some sort of space alien.

[Bookish Jen]

I, too, am sick and tired of the belittlement of Reid. I hated it when he was a young man in his twenties, new to the BAU, and I hate it even more now that Reid is in his mid-thirties and has proved himself to be a competent and valued profiler. Every time someone rolls his or her eyes at him, or makes a condescending remark at Reid’s expense, I want to chuck a shoe at my TV screen.

 

And remember when Garcia made that totally uncalled remark when she and Reid went to Comic Con (or whatever it was-I can’t keep my cons straight), and she said she couldn’t possibly be sexually attracted to Reid? Reid would have been read the riot act if he made such a remark at Garcia’s expense. Disgusting.

 

I love, love, love the idea of a woman rejecting bohunk Morgan and his abs of greatness, for the more sweetly dorkish (and I mean that as a compliment) Reid. Not all women want to be with some overly-confident playa like Morgan. I know I much prefer the more low-key and shy Reid-types. Whenever I see a guy who is built like Morgan, I think, “This guy will spend all his free time at the gym, and that means less time cuddling with me. Forget it.”

 

When it comes to Reid’s love life, I just want him to find a woman who shares the innate qualities I find so alluring in Reid-intelligent, curious, bookish, kind, empathetic, warm, with a somewhat goofy charm.

 

And of course, Reid must have some buddies from his alma mater. I’d love to see him hanging out with them or maybe hanging out with some chess buddies. Even introverts like Reid have a social life.

[normasm]

 

And remember when Garcia made that totally uncalled remark when she and Reid went to Comic Con (or whatever it was-I can’t keep my cons straight), and she said she couldn’t possibly be sexually attracted to Reid? Reid would have been read the riot act if he made such a remark at Garcia’s expense. Disgusting.

 

I know, can you imagine? "Hey, Garcia, I'm dropping you like a hot potato, I was just trying to impress this girl, who's here with another guy. "Well, Reid, you're here with another girl…" "yeah, but one i couldn't possibly be attracted to, so, shut up." "You're welcome?"

[Bookish Jen]

I know, can you imagine? "Hey, Garcia, I'm dropping you like a hot potato, I was just trying to impress this girl, who's here with another guy. "Well, Reid, you're here with another girl…" "yeah, but one i couldn't possibly be attracted to, so, shut up." "You're welcome?"

Yes, this moment kind of reminded me of when I was a young girl and everyone was raving how my sister was so pretty and would grow up to look like Grace Kelly. Being the plain Jane sister, I asked, "Well, is there anything pretty about me?" And I was met with a dismissive, "Well, you have pretty blue eyes. That's the only pretty thing about you." The fuck?

 

But there is one moment that does make me giggle during that scene-Reid's Dr. Who hair. It looks like he's wearing one of my grandma's jacked-up wigs.

[missmycat]

Garcia was on my sh!t list for the longest time after she made that remark to Reid. I swear I wanted to bitch slap her so hard. Garcia could of said what she did to Reid in a much nicer way. Such as: "Yes Reid, but, I think of you as a younger brother and Kevin knows that", or something similar to it.

Edited April 13, 2015 by missmycat

[normasm]

MMC, that's all they had to have her say, simple! Would have been totally in character and appreciative of their friendship, instead of ridiculous and mean.

[Bookish Jen]

MMC, that's all they had to have her say, simple! Would have been totally in character and appreciative of their friendship, instead of ridiculous and mean.

I agree. Garcia is usually pretty nice to Reid. But that remark was right out of the JJ playbook.

[missmycat]

I agree. Garcia is usually pretty nice to Reid. But that remark was right out of the JJ playbook.

I totally agree. Yet if I were to be honest, and put aside the fact I can't stand JJ, I don't think I've ever remember JJ saying something as mean spirited as that to him.

[JMO]

Actually, Blake was right up there with her 'Asperger's' comment.  Whether or not you come down on the side of him having it or not, it wasn't necessary for her to say.  But at least she had the grace to apologize (as she well should have!)

[Bookish Jen]

I totally agree. Yet if I were to be honest, and put aside the fact I can't stand JJ, I don't think I've ever remember JJ saying something as mean spirited as that to him.

 

Yea, but you know she's thought it.

 

Now that I think of it there is one snot-nosed remark JJ made at Reid's expense that really ticked me off. Reid noted that JJ was probably a "mean girl" in high school (very fine profiling Dr. Reid-some of your best) and JJ countered with the remark, and I'm paraphrasing, "I was a nice girl, even to kids like you."

 

Oh, how magnanimous of you JJ. Let's give this girl the Nobel Peace Prize.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Actually, Blake was right up there with her 'Asperger's' comment.  Whether or not you come down on the side of him having it or not, it wasn't necessary for her to say.  But at least she had the grace to apologize (as she well should have!)

 

But that's the point though, innit? Alex realized she said something that was potentially hurtful and she apologized for it. Because Spencer is a person with feelings, and she treated him as such.

[JMO]

I agree that JJ's comment about 'even guys like you' was unkind.  But Reid started that one.  In that episode, they were fighting like siblings.

One JJ line I didn't like was the one she made to Morgan when they were in a clothing store:  "It's very 'Spencer Reid'."  It was all in the delivery.  It could have been said with affection, but it wasn't. 

[missmycat]

I agree that JJ's comment about 'even guys like you' was unkind.  But Reid started that one.  In that episode, they were fighting like siblings.

JMO, To be honest that whole damn scene pissed me off. It seemed to me that Breen had completely rewritten some of Reid's canon history. It was as if he was totally oblivious as to what we learned about Reid in "Elephants Memory". Or he just totally ignored it simply because he wanted that scene between the 2 of them.

[JMO]

 

To be honest that whole damn scene pissed me off. It seemed to me that Breen had completely rewritten some of Reid's canon history. It was as if he was totally oblivious as to what we learned about Reid in "Elephants Memory". Or he just totally ignored it simply because he wanted that scene between the 2 of them.

 

Or you could look at it as Reid finally having the confidence to challenge the beautiful girl, building on the information from Elephant's Memory.  In that respect, I think his friendship with JJ helped him develop that confidence.  The optimist in me wants to think that he trusted her not to hurt him, so he felt safe speaking out.  Or maybe he was testing her, who knows.  I think her response was a defensive one.  They both owed each other an apology after that exchange.

[ForeverAlone]

JJ's comment later in The Lesson, when she blurted out that Spencer had a girlfriend (when it was not her place to reveal it), she just sounded mystified, like how was it possible that Spencer Reid could ever get a girlfriend.

And Breen's copout when a fan asked him about Reid's social standing increased when he started coaching basketball, was that basketball players were different than football players. Though this was also the same episode he had to agree that he screwed up when he said that Reid was a MIT grad, so it is not surprising he would not adhere to canon in his writing.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I agree that JJ's comment about 'even guys like you' was unkind.  But Reid started that one.  In that episode, they were fighting like siblings.

 

Here's the thing, though. Spencer may have started it, but he asked if JJ was one of the mean girls when she was in high school. She denied it, then said, "I was even nice to guys like you." Which is pretty Mean Girl-ish, if you ask me, as if guys like Spencer weren't in her clique or whatever. Contrast that to Elle in the first season saying that the reason he couldn't get a date was because he'd never asked anyone out. Not because there was some invisible thing wrong with him, but because he just hadn't tried.

[ForeverAlone]

The whole mean girl convo came only two episodes after Reid was pissed at JJ for lying to him, so I always took his needling to show that he was not completely over it. Considering how often JJ has given Reid eye rolls and side eyes for all the things he has said (usually just being himself), I don't know how much confidence JJ was supposed to have given him. There is a reason in my opinion that he confided more in Alex (and earlier Emily) than he ever did in JJ.

[JMO]

Yep, that's sibling fighting. Opening volley, inflammatory retort.  They just needed to be sent to their rooms.

[MCatry]

 

I love, love, love the idea of a woman rejecting bohunk Morgan and his abs of greatness, for the more sweetly dorkish (and I mean that as a compliment) Reid. Not all women want to be with some overly-confident playa like Morgan. I know I much prefer the more low-key and shy Reid-types. Whenever I see a guy who is built like Morgan, I think, “This guy will spend all his free time at the gym, and that means less time cuddling with me. Forget it.

I don't find attractive the Morgan / Moore type of guy.

On one hand, people that invest too much time into building up an exterior facade do not ring true to me.

But mostly, any time I see someone as beefy as Morgan, I think 'this guy doesn't read anything interesting at all', so no way to have a life with him. End of the discussion. That guy is out of the planet for me.

[missmycat]

JJ's comment later in The Lesson, when she blurted out that Spencer had a girlfriend (when it was not her place to reveal it), she just sounded mystified, like how was it possible that Spencer Reid could ever get a girlfriend.

And Breen's copout when a fan asked him about Reid's social standing increased when he started coaching basketball, was that basketball players were different than football players. Though this was also the same episode he had to agree that he screwed up when he said that Reid was a MIT grad, so it is not surprising he would not adhere to canon in his writing.

Exactly. That is what had me so damn pissed off. The implication being that Reid's time in high school may not have been as nearly as awful as we were original led to believe. But then again Reid is far from the only one who has had his canon history messed with. We were first told that JJ was recruited by the State department.

Later on however, it became the Defense Department that recruited her. And I hold Messer as equally responsible for this sloppy and inconsistent writing as I do these writers.

[MCatry]

I totally agree. Yet if I were to be honest, and put aside the fact I can't stand JJ, I don't think I've ever remember JJ saying something as mean spirited as that to him.

Maybe not that many times with plain words, but a lot of facial gestures to manifest her annoyance towards him, and not while he was looking the other way. Right on his face, which is specially mean if you consider that sometimes Reid doesn't understand why he is annoying people.

[Bookish Jen]

I don't find attractive the Morgan / Moore type of guy.

On one hand, people that invest too much time into building up an exterior facade do not ring true to me.

But mostly, any time I see someone as beefy as Morgan, I think 'this guy doesn't read anything interesting at all', so no way to have a life with him. End of the discussion. That guy is out of the planet for me.

But he reads "Men's Health" religiously. That's got to count for something.

 

Plus, I'd always be afraid of a Morgan type analyzing my figure flaws. He's probably say something like, "Baby girl, I know of some bicep and tricep curls that will help you with those arms of yours." Which I'd probably retort, "The only curls I want to do involve curling up with a good book. So stuff it!"

 

On-topic: Cobalt Stargazer you brought up Elle. I was sick as a dog this past Saturday and bonded with both my couch and the CM marathon on ION. Watching these early episodes really made me appreciate Elle's relationship with Reid. She was supportive, not snotty. There is one moment in "The Popular Kids" where the BAU team is walking up a steep, wooded hill. Gideon holds out his hand to help JJ. JJ turns around to see Reid but doesn't help him up the hill. However, Elle does extend her hand to Reid. That small, silent gesture really meant a lot to me.

[Droogie]

 

On-topic: Cobalt Stargazer you brought up Elle. I was sick as a dog this past Saturday and bonded with both my couch and the CM marathon on ION. Watching these early episodes really made me appreciate Elle's relationship with Reid. She was supportive, not snotty. There is one moment in "The Popular Kids" where the BAU team is walking up a steep, wooded hill. Gideon holds out his hand to help JJ. JJ turns around to see Reid but doesn't help him up the hill. However, Elle does extend her hand to Reid. That small, silent gesture really meant a lot to me.

I noticed that too! I hadn't, previously. I loved the way Elle treated Reid. I loved him with Emily, too, most of the time (I think I confuse the Emily/Spencer relationship with the Paget/Matthew one). Emily infuriated me though with, "He's so lifelike," and "There's a lot to hate about you, Dr. Reid."

[Russet29]

Exactly. That is what had me so damn pissed off. The implication being that Reid's time in high school may not have been as nearly as awful as we were original led to believe. But then again Reid is far from the only one who has had his canon history messed with. We were first told that JJ was recruited by the State department.

Later on however, it became the Defense Department that recruited her. And I hold Messer as equally responsible for this sloppy and inconsistent writing as I do these writers.

I actually hold Messer more responsible than the individual writers for the inconsistencies . As far as I'm concerned it's the show runner's job to essentially police the other writers and fact check their scripts to make sure it fits the previously established canon. I also hold her solely responsible for allowing the actors to have so much say on the direction of their characters. I'm fine with the actors having some input, particularly because some of them have been playing these people for ten years, but Messer has to be capable of saying no when it doesn't fit the direction of the show.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On-topic: Cobalt Stargazer you brought up Elle. I was sick as a dog this past Saturday and bonded with both my couch and the CM marathon on ION. Watching these early episodes really made me appreciate Elle's relationship with Reid. She was supportive, not snotty. There is one moment in "The Popular Kids" where the BAU team is walking up a steep, wooded hill. Gideon holds out his hand to help JJ. JJ turns around to see Reid but doesn't help him up the hill. However, Elle does extend her hand to Reid. That small, silent gesture really meant a lot to me.

 

I admit to being very partial, because these days I ship Spencer and Elle like whoa, and in retrospect it makes me even sadder when she leaves, because after that he didn't have someone around who was supportive without being condescending and helpful without being snotty, at least not consistently.

[Russet29]

I noticed that too! I hadn't, previously. I loved the way Elle treated Reid. I loved him with Emily, too, most of the time (I think I confuse the Emily/Spencer relationship with the Paget/Matthew one). Emily infuriated me though with, "He's so lifelike," and "There's a lot to hate about you, Dr. Reid."

Why would those Emily lines infuriate you? She was clearly saying it in jest. Have we reached the point where everyone has to fawn over Reid at all times and pretty much treat him with kid gloves? I love the character too but c'mon people. We all want him to be treated as an adult and if the characters only ever compliment him and never joke around than that is treating him like a child.

[normasm]

Actually, Blake was right up there with her 'Asperger's' comment.  Whether or not you come down on the side of him having it or not, it wasn't necessary for her to say.  But at least she had the grace to apologize (as she well should have!)

Yeah, that was clumsy of the writers to say that. For one thing, it doesn't matter if Spencer is Asperger's (who cares?). For another thing, you don't use a new character to introduce a controversial point about an established character when she's barely been on 5 episodes. Stupid.

 

But, yeah, dammitt!!!!! At least she apologized. JJ didn't even apologize about making him so miserable, she actually tried to make him feel guilty for making her feel bad!!!

[Droogie]

Why would those Emily lines infuriate you? She was clearly saying it in jest. Have we reached the point where everyone has to fawn over Reid at all times and pretty much treat him with kid gloves? I love the character too but c'mon people. We all want him to be treated as an adult and if the characters only ever compliment him and never joke around than that is treating him like a child.

If you could name one other character who was, for several seasons, ignored, brushed off, the subject of eye-rolls and stares, ad infinitum, then please do so. I love some humor in my CM, and Reid's been part of some of it. I didn't think it was funny.

He has been pretty consistently treated like a child, and like his feelings don't matter, rather than a brilliant FBI agent.

Those lines infuriated me.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Droogie

[Russet29]

If you could name one other character who was, for several seasons, ignored, brushed off, the subject of eye-rolls and stares, ad infinitum, then please do so. I love some humor in my CM, and Reid's been part of some of it. I didn't think it was funny.

He has been pretty consistently treated like a child, and like his feelings don't matter, rather than a brilliant FBI agent.

Those lines infuriated me.

I didn't say Reid hasn't been mistreated over the past couple seasons. I just never considered those two lines to be an example of it. Agree to disagree I suppose.

[Droogie]

Yes, of the straws on the camel's back, it was two more. Our mileage may vary. :-)

[Ganya]

For me, all of this allows and encourages the bullying of "the smart kid" "the geek".  It is mocking, ridiculing, emasculating a very smart adult who makes amazing contributions (in the old days, mostly).  This is high school level characterization, and shows an immaturity in the writers.  They think that this is entertaining, to bully another person for their innate differences.  It would stand out more if they were bullying a character for being gay, for being non-white, for any other innate characteristic.  Then all would see how egregious it is.  Bully smart kids and nerds is the last bastion of 'acceptable' ridicule and harm to another person. 

 

It bothers me because I have two kids in high school, and I am aware of all the anti-bullying programs and education we have had in their schools since they were young.  Criminal minds has a large audience of middle school and high school kids, and a lot of these kids are Reid/MGG fans.   So here is a favorite show, a favorite charcter who is bullied and mocked in a way the kids are taught is unacceptable.  But on the show, it is the adults, the "frienemies", doing it to a colleague, without any consequences. 

 

For all these reasons, I do not see the mocking and degradation of Reid, by friends, as a minor issue at all.  I know the difference between teasing and sibling stuff that is funny.  This goes far beyond that most times, with all the specifics so many of you have mentioned.  I do think that Paget is a good actress and a funny person, and she was able to land the rude lines in a way that did not seem brutal in the way JJ does.   Think of how utterly cruel it was in recent episode when Reid is trying to help with her PTSD (yuck on the whole episode) and she brutally cuts him down with a ugly mean vocal tone and facial expression and says "Stop being....you".   How cruel to slash Reid's very essence.    Compare that to the scene in which Reid invites Emily to Solaris (can't remember the episode name) when Emily thanks Reid for being himself. 

 

These writers have barely crawled out of high school, emotionally and in terms of characterization.  Messer too.

[Droogie]

For me, all of this allows and encourages the bullying of "the smart kid" "the geek".  It is mocking, ridiculing, emasculating a very smart adult who makes amazing contributions (in the old days, mostly).  This is high school level characterization, and shows an immaturity in the writers.  They think that this is entertaining, to bully another person for their innate differences.  It would stand out more if they were bullying a character for being gay, for being non-white, for any other innate characteristic.  Then all would see how egregious it is. [...] So here is a favorite show, a favorite charcter who is bullied and mocked in a way the kids are taught is unacceptable.  But on the show, it is the adults, the "frienemies", doing it to a colleague, without any consequences. 

 

For all these reasons, I do not see the mocking and degradation of Reid, by friends, as a minor issue at all.  I know the difference between teasing and sibling stuff that is funny.  This goes far beyond that most times, with all the specifics so many of you have mentioned.  I do think that Paget is a good actress and a funny person, and she was able to land the rude lines in a way that did not seem brutal in the way JJ does.   Think of how utterly cruel it was in recent episode when Reid is trying to help with her PTSD (yuck on the whole episode) and she brutally cuts him down with a ugly mean vocal tone and facial expression and says "Stop being....you".   How cruel to slash Reid's very essence.    Compare that to the scene in which Reid invites Emily to Solaris (can't remember the episode name) when Emily thanks Reid for being himself. 

 

These writers have barely crawled out of high school, emotionally and in terms of characterization.  Messer too.

Agreed, when the teasing is good-natured, the object will smile and laugh. Reid didn't.

[Russet29]

See I took the "Stop being you" line as an acknowledgment of what a good friend Reid is. I thought of it as a defense mechanism. She's essentially telling him to stop being the caring person he is because she doesn't want to talk about it and she knows Reid is capable of getting her to open up. I also didn't think the line was delivered in as cutting a manner as we're used to. Of course our prior opinions of characters shape the way we react to them in the moment, and I'm indifferent towards JJ whereas most people on this board hate her, so maybe I'm just seeing it differently.

[normasm]

Russet, I do think they tried for what you described, but for whatever reason, AJ's acting, or whatever, it didn't come off that way. I think it was clumsily written and clumsily acted on her part. It left MGG/Reid, who was carrying his part of the scene, iMO, looking inept and needy of JJ's love and affection to be able to function, while she sullies on, shooting and kicking and punching her way through the world of PTSD.

[zannej]

I wish they hadn't made Garcia so self-absorbed and inconsiderate of others (particularly Reid). She used to care about him, but that line about not being attracted to him-- the old Garcia would have said "Oh, I didn't mean it like that! I mean because you're like a brother to me! It would be like incest!" instead of that he was just uneappealing in general.

[JMO]

I agree with Russet that the "stop being you" line in The Forever People was about Reid being able to read her so well, and was made more out of JJ's discomfort about being found out than it was anything else. I didn't hear it as an insult so much as I heard it as a plea. I didn't think that entire exchange was written well. But I thought the line was delivered in context.

Anyway, apart from that, I thought your post was spot on, Ganya. There's a distinct immaturity to some of the writing, and it never serves to paint our characters in a good light. I find it hard to tease out, sometimes, if they (the writers) are reflecting their own status, or attempting to write to an emotionally immature (not just chronologically--they don't always go together) demographic. I just know I find it insulting to the characters and to me, the viewer.

[Ganya]

The writers had so many choices about how to have JJ express defensiveness when Reid was trying to talk in Forever People, but instead they chose this "whole person" rejection.  And AJ delivered it with snottiness that she has a hard time avoiding.  So my POV is that the writers and the actress made these choices when others could have been made to do what needed to be done, without slashing Reid.  It came across nasty, no matter what they might have intended.  They all chose the way it  was done, so I still object to it. 

[zannej]

I meant to add that if Reid teased people back or just laughed when they ribbed him, it wouldn't be so bad. But he just takes it and doesn't seem to find it funny. I really loved the one deleted scene where Reid was making it seem like maybe Prentiss had a crush on Morgan as a way to distract him when he was playing cards.

[BookWoman56]

In the last couple of weeks, I binge-watched the later seasons of CM and then felt compelled to rewatch the first three seasons as well. I’d seen some of the later seasons but had missed some episodes and wanted to get caught up.  The difference in how Reid’s character is treated between those first seasons and now really stands out. In the beginning, even though his colleagues thought he was quirky and somewhat inexperienced, they seemed to respect his intellect and acknowledge that he could make significant contributions to profiling the unsub of the week. He was frequently able to see patterns that were too obscure for others or to have knowledge that helped solve the case. Also, Reid seemed to be more able to hold his own when he was insulted, such as in LDSK when Morgan gives him the whistle to hang around his neck because he failed his firearm proficiency exam, and then at the end of the episode Reid gives it back to Morgan after demonstrating that he (Reid) could in fact hit a target when it counted. 

Contrast that with now, when Reid is frequently the butt of jokes or ridicule by his colleagues for being intelligent, as if that’s a character flaw. The pattern now seems to be: 1) the group discusses the case; 2) somebody makes fun of Reid; 3) Reid’s only contribution to the case is marking the locations of the last three victims and drawing a circle around those locations to produce a “geographical profile” (which I could do with zero knowledge of criminal psychology); 4) the rest of the team has the designated takedown of the unsub while Reid is apparently back at the local law enforcement office; and 5) then the writers show that Reid still exists by a token shot of him sleeping on the jet on the return trip.  Lather, rinse, repeat. Sure, there’s the occasional Reid-centric episode, which seems to consist primarily of giving Reid yet more tragedy to be angsty about, but it’s increasingly rare that his character makes any substantive contribution to profiling the unsub. Evidently, the showrunner thinks it’s much more interesting to watch a team that supposedly specializes in analyzing criminal behavior engage in physical confrontations with the unsub, whether it’s slugging each other or shooting, than to have that team actually profile the unsub, figure out where the unsub is, and use their knowledge of his/her psychological state to convince the unsub to surrender and only use physical confrontation as a last resort. 

I’d also like to see Reid have a more fulfilling love life, because it is impossible to believe that women would not be hitting on a guy that intelligent and beautiful. Morgan’s abs do absolutely nothing for me, and I’m sure there are plenty of women IRL as well as in fiction who value intelligence more than muscles, and who would also find Reid physically attractive. The idea that Morgan has women falling all over him while poor Reid can’t find a date (except for a woman who ends up getting killed in front of him) is simply preposterous.