S01.E09: Episode 9

[Bebecat]

Does Beth know that Danny and Tommy were no longer friends?

Did either mother have a clue about their kids? Why did Danny quit the sports team? Was it because of Tommy or his father?

[LisaM]

I wonder if Ellie's sister is also going to factor in or if she was just a plot point to obtain the info about the Solano's truck?

[Netfoot]

Tom is nothing more than a huge scarlet fish.  The only thing on his computer is porn.  (Come on!  He's twelve!  What else do you think he does with his computer?)

 

Besides, I've worked out who the killer is.  Judging by the way the script writers have crafted the last nine episodes, I'm pretty sure the killer is the mother of the victim in the Rosemont case, who visited with Beth during Episode #8.

[LeGrandElephant]

Now THAT would be a twist.

I was thinking the other day about this show, and about how throughout history so many more parents would have lost at least one child to disease, etc. Presumably they didn't all fall completely apart back then. Were they just expected not to, by society? Was it that children dying was to be expected, so you had lots of them?

[Beebee111]

 

Regarding Carver taking the heat for his ex so that his daughter didn't have to think poorly of her mother - how is that any different than her thinking poorly of her father? It made no sense to me. So he allows himself to be humiliated and run out of town in order to protect an ex who was cheating on him? Really?

 

Perhaps this humiliation was less than the humiliation of having everyone know his wife was having an affair right under his nose with another detective and he was clueless about it. He may be protecting his own ego, just as much as he claims to be protecting his daughter.

[ZoloftBlob]

So here's my problem with this show.

 

I still have no idea why Danny was killed. Or why he was sneaking out with five hundred bucks under his bed. Or why he was killed in the cabin or whatever and then the body was taken on a boat and deposited on a beach....

 

Is it Tom who did it? Because sketchy as fuck as that kid is, he doesn't seem big enough to beat Danny to death (do we even know how Danny was killed?) And had no reason to kill Danny?

 

Is it the creepy priest? Who is obviously in love with Beth? And is sketchy as fuck? But who has no motivation to kill Danny?

 

Is it Elly's weird husband who also seems sketchy as fuck but seems to have utterly no motivation to kill Danny?

 

I mean, at this point, whoever killed Danny apparently did so for no reason related to any of the weird things going on in the town, like the drug dealing or the various sex offenders or the psychic or the whole sordid tale of Susan and her possible son Vince who went hunting with Danny, or Danny's shoplifting, or the Rosemount case or Dr. Who's heart condition or Skylar's inability yet again to notice all the sketchy as fuck men in her life.

 

I'll be watching, because there's little else on but not because "who killed Danny?" is all that compelling. Danny, you're no Laura Palmer.

[wandeljw]

Has anyone seen the nine photos from the finale released by the Fox network? They seem to rule out 2 or 3 of the main suspects.

[alexvillage]

It is not Vince. Vince loved Danny, he is a pedophile. 

I think he found the body in the woods and didn't want it to be left there, so he took it to the beach.

I don't think it was Tom either. I can see him being jealous of or mad at Danny, having a fight and killing him, maybe accidentally. That would have to do with the hard drive, the money and the phone. But I don't think it is him.

But I stand by my guess that it is Chloe and the boyfriend, and drugs are involved. Danny was a mule? Tom was too, and that's why he is acting so creepy.

[LisaM]

Chloe's boyfriend is a good suspect especially since that odd dinner meal where he gave Beth a gift and it was said that he was part of the family. Would also fit with not seeing the evil within. I still think the killer is more closely related to Ellie -- Joe and/or Tom and drug related.

[Ellaria]

Has anyone seen the nine photos from the finale released by the Fox network? They seem to rule out 2 or 3 of the main suspects.

 

I just saw the photos and you are correct. Process of elimination = spoilers. Be careful out there if you don't want to know.

[Hero]

I feel at this point, I really don't care who the killer is. It could be Susan/ Ruth's dog for all I care. I was really into the show the first few episodes, but then I lost interest. The show is painstakingly slow, I honestly wouldn't mind the pace if the viewers  got some kind of clue in each episode. But nothing happened. I felt as if the plot never moved. The viewers were stuck with the same information as we knew when the first episode was shown, someone killed Danny. 

 

This episode felt rushed compared to the others and I think they jammed a lot of information into it. This happens a lot when the plot is intriguing, but they only have so many episodes to tell the story. I wish that they would have sprinkled some hard clues throughout the episodes. 

[GreyBunny]

I haven't actually watched since episode 6 or 7 and I don't think I've missed anything.  It maybe saved me from a few hours of being annoyed.  I'll watch the last episode but only for the feeling of schadenfreude that will come when the killer is officially revealed.  

[saber5055]

 

I was thinking the other day about this show, and about how throughout history so many more parents would have lost at least one child to disease, etc. Presumably they didn't all fall completely apart back then. Were they just expected not to, by society? Was it that children dying was to be expected, so you had lots of them?

You are a deep thinker, LeGrandElephant! Yes, it wasn't so long ago that families typically lost children to various diseases, even polio crippled/killed kids in the 1950s, and before that, during Dust Bowl times, kids died all the time, and so did moms during childbirth. Supposedly, families had lots of kids so as to provide farm labor (or to replace the dead ones), but also birth control was pretty much potluck back then. (And many women died from illegal abortions, but that's another thread.)

 

I've been enjoying this show and don't feel it's been slow or whatever. Sure, there are points I can complain about, like reality things and continuity, but I can gripe about those in every television program. Well, except The Wire, which was perfect. And to complain during a 10-part series that enough clues are not being given so we know the killer is like complaining in the middle of a Star Wars film that Luke is never going to find out who is father is. Patience, everyone! We just get a one-week break between scenes instead of seeing it all in one viewing.

 

Thanks for the heads up about the Fox photos, wandeljw. I am definitely not going there! Wikipedia already screwed Broadchurch for me. Although after Gracepoint is over, I want to watch that series so I can compare.

Edited December 8, 2014 by saber5055

[ZoloftBlob]

And to complain during a 10-part series that enough clues are not being given so we know the killer is like complaining in the middle of a Star Wars film that Luke is never going to find out who is father is.

 

I disagree! :)

 

It's a murder mystery, not a tale of incestuous space swashbucklers.

 

Seriously, I should have some idea of *why* Danny died at this point. While we the viewers can point some fingers at Tom for being incredibly sketchy, all of the stories revealed so far - Nick Nolte's child marriage, the affair of Gemma and Mark, Beth having the baby and maybe an affair with the preacher who also seems to be a bit obsessed with Danny, the newspaper reporter from out of town vs the townies, the daughter selling a little blow on the side, Susan and her tragic past....None of this went anywhere.

 

If I am right about who the killer is.... well, lets just say that the only way this will shock me is if Elly reveals to the Doctor that she's the murderer, and Danny found out that she was really Skylar White from Breaking Bad so she had to silence him.

 

And here's the thing - the ridiculous end reveal I just proposed? Has exactly as much lead in as any other possible killer.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like shocking reveals and I've suspected Grace Point was going there for some time, but really, it's not a fun mystery if the audience has no chance of solving it.

 

[Netfoot]

And to complain during a 10-part series that enough clues are not being given so we know the killer is like complaining in the middle of a Star Wars film that Luke is never going to find out who is father is. Patience, everyone! We just get a one-week break between scenes instead of seeing it all in one viewing.

 

Ok, as potential suspects, we have Tom & Joe Miller, Beth, Mark and Chloe Solano, Dean the boyfriend, LoonySue, ShamanPaul, Vince, Kathy, Owen and Renee from the fourth estate, and at a stretch, Gemma, Ellie, Carver, Chief Morgan, and a handful I've probably forgotten about.  So, the only person we can conclusively rule out is Jack, who killed himself.  And come to think of it, his suicide doesn't mean he didn't actually do it.

 

So, in the last nine weeks, what exactly have the police been doing?  And I include The Great Carver in my query.  Apart from nine weeks of dickish behaviour, what has he achieved?  In 90% of the show, the cast -- and through them, the script writers -- have not isolated or identified one single person to be of particular interest.  They have not cleared a single person of suspicion.  To my memory they have not located one single clue that might be considered significant.  In nine episodes this show has gone nowhere!

 

So, with one episode remaining, there will be one huge fluky discovery.  Flukey, because solid police-work is in short supply in this town.  It will point to the least likely of suspects.  (Hugo, the evidence tech did it, in case you didn't already know.)  The reason behind it all, will turn out to be something stupid, like a kiddie-porn ring organized by the kiddies themselves. The cops will receive huge praise for their shoddy work.  In a dramatic tear-jerker, Carver will fall down as to die, and will kick the bucket, but only if we're lucky.  Otherwise we'll see him in a hospital bed all wan but obviously on the road to recovery.  Coke deals involving minor children will not be swept under the rug -- they will be completely forgotten.

 

And worst of all, we'll discover that this steaming pile of shite has been renewed for a second, even more dreadful season.

[Guest]

I really can't see Tennant bouncing back and forth between continents doing more and more successive seasons of the same dull character, especially if the US one would copy the UK story each time.  I do know he's doing a season 2 of Broadchurch but the repetition would be mind-boggling.  I think he has many more interesting career options.  

 

I'm hoping they can just leave a mini-series as a mini-series for once.  Go re-adapt some other foreign show now, or find a decent US written screenplay and develop it.  

[wandeljw]

Like others on this forum, I hope Gracepoint works as a legitimate mystery where we can look back and say that earlier episodes played fair with the viewer and provided enough information for the finale to make sense.

[saber5055]

Wow, netfoot, you just freed up my Thursday. Now I have to look for something else to do that night since you went and spoiled the entire ending for everyone.

[alexvillage]

 

it's not a fun mystery if the audience has no chance of solving it.

Thank you. Enough said.

[ZoloftBlob]

No problem, alexvillage. I love a good mystery and I am hopeful Broadchurch is a better watch than Gracepoint in this respect. One of the best mystery movies I ever saw was Knight Moves (it has Christopher Lambert in it) and I remember it so well because it was two hours of suspecting EVERYONE - including a woman when the killer had already been revealed as male because it was that crazy- only to get to the end to discover that YES, all of the clues were there as to who the killer was. It was marvelous. I want Gracepoint to be that marvelous and they had a lot of good people working in it but I suspect I am going to be disappointed.

[Guest]

 it's not a fun mystery if the audience has no chance of solving it.

I agree but I think they have a tightrope to walk because it's also not fun if most viewers figure it out well before the end.  

[Netfoot]

Wow, netfoot, you just freed up my Thursday. Now I have to look for something else to do that night since you went and spoiled the entire ending for everyone.

 

Just so as you know:  I am completely unspoiled.  Any similarity between my crazy speculation and the as-yet un-aired reality is not only highly unlikely, but totally surprising.

 

PS:  I don't really think Hugo did it.  The killer is obviously Archie the dog!

[Haleth]

No! Not Archie!

I'm having fun guessing week to week who the latest most likely suspect is. We can definitely rule out Vince now, right? Susan's story was heartbreaking so I'm glad Ellie's "how did you not know?" will come back to bite her. Karma, baby.

Even more than the solution to the murder I'm curious about the hidden money.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Haleth

[Bebecat]

I too am wondering if they will explain the money.

Is no one in this freak town living a life without weird secrets? How is it possible so many people are possible child killers, even this far into the series?

[secnarf]

With respect to Carver letting his wife take the fall, I agree that he would have been humiliated to have it be publicized that his wife was having an affair with another detective under his nose. I also think that he meant what he said - he was in charge so he did feel responsible, and probably also felt responsible that he didn't realize his wife was having an affair. I think he also thought that his daughter would be much better off with her mother than with him.

[photo fox]

Hey, all, just a friendly reminder that posts in this thread should be in reference to this episode. If you want to speculate about the ending, please jump over to the Speculation Without Spoilers topic. Thanks!

[Actionmage]

Since supposedly Tom gave the laptop to Father and Father gave it to Carver, it's all contributed so no warrant would be required, right? I'm by no means up on legal stuff, although I'm sure some lawyer would find a way to toss out the evidence somehow if this went to trial.

 

 

There was a column, The Law Is A Ass ( part of a Dickens quote), that talked about how real world law could/would work in superhero comics. ( Also,how the stories could've been better/more suspenseful/grounded in reality with minor tweaks.) It was written by Bob Ingersoll, a man who practiced the law for thirty years or so. This is all to say:

 

The computer could be admitted without Ellie or Joe's okay because of The Silver Platter Doctrine. The police received evidence by a third party, who ended up with it legally. All he has to say is that he wasn't sure Ellie and Joe would want Tom to destroy the machine and took it to return to them. He thought better of that decision and called Carver.  The Silver Platter Doctrine is how Joe Citizen can give evidence of a crime to cops who cannot obtain the evidence without potentially losing said evidence, iirc.   (I'm in the  middle of moving into a house, so I can't put my hands on the column just now.)

 

As for the episode? Yeah, Vince is guilty of many things*, but the actual murder of Danny? Probably not. I am leaning to Tom, but the way the series is going, I'm still giving Joe the side-eye.

 

Kathy, when you want to be a detective, just ask Ellie. Telling Carver that he must want to tell the secret because it's so tiring to keep? Cop show talk. I think I remember it from at least Homicide. Also, IA that any moral standing you had against Renee? Gone in a poof. Your source in the hospital is very green or under an equally sad blackmail situation, no doubt.  Owen? I was so hopeful for you. If you don't leave Gracepoint, I fear you will go the way of Kathy- self-righteous until the easy squeeze comes along. Susan deserves the full weight of the law (which she does for the threat of sexual assault), but you violate a hospital's code of privacy to get a story? No one better say boo to you, ma'am!

 

I am so tired of this unpleasant town! You are either the most vile of folks, some of the more broken folks in the hemisphere, or so utterly uninvolved in anything that you have no idea of what is going on in a town where "everybody" "knows" "everybody." This totally needed to be aired in the dreary October/November/December time frame. Thanks, Fox scheduling!

[Automne]

Just a quick FYI to those who haven't seen Broadchurch and want to: it'll finally be available on Netflix streaming on December 12. And it's been renewed on ITV for a 3rd season though the second season doesn't even start until January.

[carrps]

 Susan deserves the full weight of the law (which she does for the threat of sexual assault), but you violate a hospital's code of privacy to get a story? No one better say boo to you, ma'am!

 

It's not just the hospital's code of privacy. It's federal law.

Edited December 9, 2014 by carrps

[LisaM]

 

Just a quick FYI to those who haven't seen Broadchurch and want to: it'll finally be available on Netflix streaming on December 12. And it's been renewed on ITV for a 3rd season though the second season doesn't even start until January.

Thanks so much for the heads up! I have been dying to see Broadchurch long before Gracepoint showed up and was waiting for Netflix to stream it. Great news. Coincidentally it is arriving the day after Gracepoint ends.

[saber5055]

I'm wondering what other men Susan knows who would rape Newspaper Editor since didn't she say her husband was dead?

[alexvillage]

There are too many side stories in this show that I am afraid will never be resolved. And if someone ever decides to time the minutes that reporter had a scene or line, that is probably one of the biggest waste of time ever. The character was annoying and useless. Not sure why she was there. Her "revelation" about Carver could have been done by anyone with a computer and search engine - which is anybody else.

[Actionmage]

Her "revelation" about Carver could have been done by anyone with a computer and search engine - which is anybody else.

 

Or given to Owen to show he was a perfectly competent writer on his own, cub or not. He could still have the journalism ethics arguments with Kathy, but less time spent on another tiresomely nasty character that added not much in the end. How would Beth have met the super-depressed Rosemont mom, and decide to have a nice day with her family? Kathy could have helped her track down the woman. (Surely, Kathy has a serviceable working relationship with the other local papers.)

 

For Renee to be a thorn in Carver's side, she needed to be a) seen more at police scenes, b) speak loudly about what she surmised went on in Rosemont- about how exactly he lost the case, and c) actually seem interested in The Truth, instead of Glory/Fame/Credit.  As it was? She was even more of a child than Owen, in execution.