Ratings and Scheduling: Hail to the Gods

[tv echo]

413 ranked #3 on Nielsen Twitter TV Ratings 2/10/2016 - Daily Top Five:

http://www.nielsensocial.com/nielsentwittertvratings/daily/

[Morrigan2575]

Arrow held 0.9/2.44

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/02/final-adjusted-tv-ratings-for-wednesday_11.html?m=1

[kismet]

They got better ratings last year mainly because people were still watching after that first crossover. The novelty of that has probably worn off and people know better now. They tune in for the crossover and then leave. LOL.

Good theory. I also think that last year's xover pulled people in because it showed how great ARROW can be. This year's xover showed how pedestrian, tropey & cliche the ARROW writers can be. Instead of giving them an appealing storyline, they gave them the dumb BMD that is poorly written with no good reason to turn in. If you were not an ARROW viewer, why would you turn into ARROW after that xover? To see how BMD breaks up one of the most organic relationships of the show? To see how stupid the writers need to make OQ this season to make their stupid stories work? Any potential bump was lost the minute they pinned their hopes on a poorly designed BMD.

[BkWurm1]

Just in general, when creating an episode for some novice viewers, show your best side, not your worst.  They showed how great Oliver and Felicity were on the Flash side (Not just them, but also how well the team was functioning and look, look, it's not all grim and sad) and then on the Arrow side informed any viewer that liked what they'd seen that sticking around means they will get to see what they liked destroyed and tainted.   

 

Just really poor planning. 

[lexicon]

I woke up with this exact same thought in my head (yes, I'm way too invested in Arrow and need a hobby) regarding the BMD not just with respect to the Crossover eps but sweeps as well. Even if MG et al were ridiculously pumped for this storyline and somehow thought their viewers would be as well, surely that was dispelled after the almost universal condemnation received by both the SL and the manner in which it was handled after 4.08. Why then would you focus on the secret reveal during sweeps? Yes, I know they would've already been further ahead in the preparation and shooting schedule but surely it wasn't too late to do some kind of course correction, instead it seems we're going full steam ahead. 

[Ann Mack]

It's arrogance on Marc's part with a really big heaping of stupidity. As stated above the whole BMD and Oliver lying was pretty much universally hated (fans and reviewers). They could have easily switched this up for me it again goes to Marc's direction of where he wants the story to be "Taken" (see what I did there ok now I'm being silly). In all sincerity Arrow and Marc should be happy they have loyal fans but even those can be pushed to the brink of saying enough and stop watching. As much as I love a show I can quit a show. I didn't really tune into (first full eppy) The Flash until "The Welcome To Earth 2" episode this season because after the premiere (which also felt off) it felt off and I wasn't here for that stupidly rushed "Patty you bring me happiness and the MOST important person in my life" after a few episodes crap. Arrow needs to tread carefully usually once you lose a viewer(s) they don't always return!

Edited February 12, 2016 by Ann Mack

[tv echo]

I don't know why people watch or don't watch from week to week.  I can only relate a personal anecdote.

 

I have a friend who's a hardcore comic book guy, so I sometimes try to get his thoughts about Arrow.  He liked S1 and S2, but hated S3 (not for the reason you think).  While he would've preferred the Black Canary with the Green Arrow, he doesn't like Laurel and prefers Sara as the (Black) Canary. He just thinks that Laurel has the wrong origin story for the Black Canary and that her hero journey in S3 just wasn't believable.  He also finds her irritating.  In his words, "they killed the wrong sister."  He's mostly okay with Olicity because he can see how that relationship developed on the show, but he didn't like their contrived romance angst in S3. He's okay with a happy Olicity couple as part of the team and not involved in big personal drama. He did love Ray and the Atom suit.  

 

His biggest complaint about S3 involved the whole Ra's al Ghul story arc.  He has always loved Ra's and the League of Assassins (League of Shadows), and is very bitter about how Arrow diminished Ra's and made the League out to be so easily beaten by amateurs and almost a laughable non-threat.  In his words, "their version of the League made them look obsolete and incompetent." So he quit watching Arrow after S3. 

 

Last fall, he watched the Flash/Arrow crossovers (208, 408), and I convinced him to also watch 409 after I told him about Damian Darhk and HIVE.  He liked 409 so much that he also watched 410 and 411.  However, as soon as he tuned in to 412, which opened with Nanda Parbat and Nyssa's escape, he went 'nope' and changed the channel. And honestly, I don't think I'm going to be able to convince him to give Arrow another try.

Edited February 12, 2016 by tv echo

[NumberCruncher]

Your friend's perspective doesn't surprise me in the least, tv echo. I think TPTB believe the Arrow version of the LoA to be a lot more popular than it really is--especially since they made a huge mistake in the casting of Ra's with MN. Weak casting, plus the nonsensical plotlines that plagued S3 and the show's insistence on inserting Merlyn into everything just so they can boast having JB in the cast, has driven more than a few viewers past the point of caring anything about the LoA. Based upon what I have read of the reviews of Wednesday's episode, people are over both the incompetent LoA and Oliver turning into a dumbass when it comes to finally killing Malcolm once and for all. While I'm not quite ready to declare that the ratings are necessarily suffering because of it (0.9 is still in the magic 0.9-1.1 range that the show consistently has hit for 4 seasons), I see a worrying sense of boredom settling in with regard to rehashed plots (e.g. Malcolm/LoA vs. Oliver), irrelevant flashbacks, and too many subplots with no real resolution with associated consequences...well, except for Felicity, of course. *eyeroll*

Edited February 12, 2016 by NumberCruncher

[BkWurm1]

I wonder if we are going to see a consistent slide for the rest of the season.  Or at least a steady low. 

 

 It feels like a certain number of viewers are already separating themselves from where the show is currently going and even though we know most of the back half seasonal slump gets fixed right toward the end, the numbers seem to always be lowest in the spring when suddenly people remember they can go outside and do stuff in the evenings. 

Edited February 13, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Starfish35]

Ratings usually fall across the board when Daylight Savings Time comes back, especially for the 8/7c hour. I think TVBTN used to have a post about it. This year that happens on March 13.

Arrow also has to contend with basketball in the spring, which doesn't help their numbers either.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Starfish35

[Velocity23]

It also have been airing against 2 big baskeball games for the last 2 weeks.

[tv echo]

Arrow's 411 episode ("A.W.O.L.") scored Live+7 ratings of 1.7, which is a 7-Day % Increase of 55%...

 

Broadcast Live +7 ratings: ‘Lucifer’ premiere shows solid growth in week 19
POSTED 12:25 PM, FEBRUARY 16, 2016, BY RICK PORTER
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/02/16/broadcast-live-7-ratings-week-19-jan-25-31-2016/

Edited February 16, 2016 by tv echo

[bijoux]

I'm glad. It was an excellent episode.

[Morrigan2575]

Overnights are in 

 

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/02/ratings-news-18th-february-2016.html?utm_source=Trending&utm_medium=Trending

 

Arrow is same as last week, 0.9/2.46 million viewers.  SPN is same demo as last week but up in viewers which makes me happy 0.8/2.00 million viewers

[Morrigan2575]

Finals are in 0.9/2.44

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/02/final-adjusted-tv-ratings-for-wednesday_18.html?m=1

[Chaser]

I know that there are multiple factors to any fluctuation in ratings, but I honestly feel the sudden shift to LOA/Malcolm/Nyssa hurt the shows momentum.

[kes0704]

Plus waiting for the shoe to drop on the lying / kid reveal.

[BkWurm1]

Plus waiting for the shoe to drop on the lying / kid reveal.

It does feel like there is a group that just peaced out until it was over.  Of course after 4-15  the ratings historically start dropping for other reasons so yeah, I'm bracing myself for new show lows...and also spitefully looking forward to crappy numbers during broken up Olicity even thought I'm savvy enough to know the dropping numbers always come after the Spring hiatus anyway.   

[Ann Mack]

I read some of the tweets Marc, Wendy and even Greg get and let me tell you it's sort of head scratching. I think from some of those tweets a lot of those come from having a love/hate (so to speak just using that terminology I have NO proof and I am not stating this as fact) relationship with the show or an IF you are NOT giving me what I want to see then I'm going to bash what you are focusing on. Poor Felicity and Olicity some of the comments are downright brutal, offensive, and IMO not true but again based out of being displeased (love/hate) because it may take focus from specific other areas some want or think that specific area is not receiving or getting proper respect. Some how Felicity in some eyes has become the "problem" (total nonsense IMO) with the show and she and "Olicity" are some how bringing down the ratings. As far as I can remember Arrow has always consistently held ratings between 0.9 and 1.1 and been a bit sporadic after returning from hiatuses. I think it may have gotten a 0.8 at one time but I can never recall it going lower. Any how it made for some interesting reading on Tweet Deck.

 

BTW I don't think the show is too concerned with the ratings cause I think Arrow is maintaining its usual and I think they were actually adding to those numbers in the Live +7.  Arrow has potential they IMO just need to bring it back to basics and develop the characters and leave contrived stories and plots that back them into corners without a realistic solution to get out of that corner. Or at least realistic enough that the audience will accept it.

 

I tried not to mention any specific fans or comparisons (I think I did it)  if I did venture into that territory then I understand if this post may need to be removed.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Ann Mack

[dtissagirl]

As far as I can remember Arrow has always consistently held ratings between 0.9 and 1.1 and been a bit sporadic after returning from hiatuses. I think it may have gotten a 0.8 at one time but I can never recall it going lower.

 

Arrow hit a streak of 0.8s and 0.7s in the second half of S2. Then 2 episodes in S3 got 0.8: 302 and 318. It hasn't gone below 0.9 since then.

 

In anyway -- Twitter activity about the show influence the measurements Nielsen take on Twitter. Hence the fact that Arrow didn't make the Top 5 Twitter metrics this week. There's no way to make informed assumptions about how Twitter activity influences the actual TV ratings.

[tv echo]

S4 returned last fall with higher ratings (and happy Olicity), despite Oliver & Felicity being together and driving off into the sunset at the end of S3.

Edited February 19, 2016 by tv echo

[quarks]

 

In anyway -- Twitter activity about the show influence the measurements Nielsen take on Twitter. Hence the fact that Arrow didn't make the Top 5 Twitter metrics this week. There's no way to make informed assumptions about how Twitter activity influences the actual TV ratings.

 

Yeah - about all we know is that Nielsen now factors in Twitter activity, but not how much that factors in or how it's calculated.

[Guest]

I'm confused about the ratings tbh because I see a lot of haters blaming Felicity and Olicity for the ratings but as someone already said, Arrow has always hovered around the 0.9 - 1.1 demo rating since the first season. They definitely had more viewers in early s1 but that's expected for a new show. They always lose viewers by the end and whatever they keep heading into s2 tends to be their loyal audience. So I honestly don't see an issue with the ratings at all. And nothing has fallen as low as it did in those mid-s2 episodes. Yikes. 

Edited February 19, 2016 by Guest

[SmallScreenDiva]

I think unless those people blaming Felicity and Olicity have access to network data, they are talking out of their bums. We can't really tell what makes ratings go up or down just by looking at an ep. And so many factors can affect ratings, something that's been discussed on this thread. 

 

But at the break, only Arrow and one other show posted gains for The CW for the season. Everybody else, including The Flash went down a bit. 

Edited February 19, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva

[Morrigan2575]

That's because people are trying to use (and in some cases twist) ratings to justify their opinions.  This happens all the time in fandom, and in just about every fandom it's a BS argument.  Ratings are not about my ship and/or character is better than yours.  Ratings are used to determine budget, renewal and marketing/publicity (except on the CW where they have monkeys doing the work).

 

In the end it doesn't matter what you or I or anyone else think about why ratings are the way they are.  All that matters is what the Network thinks and none of us know that.  So why concern yourself with what fans think or say about ratings?  

[quarks]

For what it's worth (major disclaimer: not much), the slump in total viewers does match the weak trend for Oliver/Felicity seen in the first three seasons discussed earlier in this thread: that is, total viewers go up or stay steady when it looks like Oliver/Felicity are going to be together, and go down when it looks like they are going to be apart/break up.   

 

Forgetting about the drop from "Legends of Yesterday" to "Dark Waters," since that was a crossover outlier, the pattern is still sorta holding true here:

 

Dark Waters - Oliver asks Felicity to marry him. Total viewers remain steady, 2.82 to 2.83.

 

Blood Debts - Oliver says he still wants to marry Felicity, but the episode ends with a flashforward suggesting that they will break up. Total viewers drop from 2.83 to 2.78.

 

A.W.O.L. - Oliver promises to find something that will let Felicity walk again (which apparently means, in Oliver terms, "I'll let Curtis solve this," but let us move on). The two share cute moments. Despite this, as if to prove that the Oliver/Felicity total viewers trend is, as I said earlier, weak, total viewers drop from 2.78 to 2.48.

 

A.W.O.L. also had one other scene - an Oliver/Laurel sparring moment where he confided the stuff about the changed timeline to her, instead of usual confidants Diggle or Felicity, leading some viewers to wonder if Arrow might be starting to lay the groundwork for Oliver/Laurel again. As I noted earlier, when Arrow suggests that Oliver and Laurel will get together again, total viewers usually drop, so although A.W.O.L. doesn't fit the Oliver/Felicity pattern, it does fit that pattern. 

 

Unchained - In a side comment, Oliver admits that he's been visiting Central City, although Arrow doesn't clarify how often he's been going there, allowing at least some viewers to believe that Oliver was discussing his trips during the crossover episodes. Total viewers slip very slightly (statistically invalid), from 2.48 to 2.44, staying low.

 

Sins of the Father - Arrow reminds us that Oliver is still lying to Felicity, even as she tells him about her father. The episode ends with Oliver asking Felicity to marry him again. It's ambiguous: the lie suggests a breakup, the proposal suggests they'll be together. Total viewers remain steady at 2.44 to 2.44.

 

Having typed this out I'm reluctant to read too much into it, largely because, as noted earlier, unlike the negative Oliver/Laurel trend, the positive Oliver/Felicity trend has never really been all that strong. I suspect, as always, viewers are responding to multiple things. 

[NumberCruncher]

Agreed that I'm not going to stress out about what other viewers think in terms of what's affecting ratings. As far as the Olicity/Felicity effect, the past show performance pretty much disproves that it/she affects it negatively. Morrigan2575 is right that people are always going to focus on what they don't like as the reason for viewership drop, but as others have mentioned here, the show has been a consistent 0.9 for the past 3 episodes which while on the lower side of the typical range, is still within the range.

Personally I tend to think that the lower viewership numbers aren't due to any specific cause but rather general apathy. The show just isn't giving us anything interesting. They've regurgitated the LoA plot which everyone seems to have had enough of, stalled the Darhk plot, and inserted a Baby Mama/secret kid plot which everyone with a pulse can see is there to create contrived (and utterly predictable) "drama". I don't think that people are angry as much as just going through the motions waiting for something to actually happen. In a nutshell, the show is boring people to tears and they're just casually watching until it hopefully gets better.

[dtissagirl]

The only character we can say for sure gives Arrow significant ratings boosts just by existing in isolated episodes is that kid Barry Allen. Everyone else needs to be looked at from a trending standpoint.

The average viewer isn't scrutinizing promotion, nor is trying to figure out which regular character is gonna be the focused of an episode. That's a fandom thing. Regular Joe is watching Arrow as a whole. What happens THEN is they'll go "ugh, too much Laurel" at the end of an episode, and decide not to tune in THE FOLLOWING WEEK. And then IF a trend develops, that becomes relevant info.

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah, Barry Allen is without a doubt a ratings boost for Arrow.  I'm curious to see if he can do the same for Supergirl and surprised they haven't planned for a Flash crossover onto LoT. 

[Morena]

Broadcast Live +7 ratings for Feb. 1-7, 2016  (Arrow - 4x12)

Adults 18-49 –  Total gain: Arrow 0.9 to 1.6 - Increase 67%

Viewers - total gain: 2475 to 3736 - increase 51%

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/02/22/broadcast-live-7-ratings-feb-1-7-2016/

Edited February 23, 2016 by Morena

[Morrigan2575]

Arrow's ratings were up this week.

 

1.0 / 2.67 million viewers.  

 

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/02/ratings-news-25th-february-2016.html

[tv echo]

That's good news for Vixen.

[Velocity23]

I think it helped that Emily and Stephen did some promotion.

[tv echo]

O&F didn't break up until the last 2 minutes of the episode, so no one would've known for sure that they broke up until after watching almost all of this episode.

[NumberCruncher]

Exactly. Nobody knew for sure that they were going to break up. Heck--even some diehard fans here didn't know for sure. I wouldn't, however, have a hard time believing that people tuned in out of curiosity to see what was going to happen once Felicity found out the truth. I don't think that's the same thing as celebrating that they broke up though.

[tarotx]

MG&co even released the

wedding

picture to try and temper people's fear or well to troll but the picture was definitely out there making people curious. 

Edited February 25, 2016 by tarotx

[looptab]

There was also an interesting spoilery pic going around, that people wouldn't know wasn't for 415.

 Edit: What tarotx said. Better refresh the page next time!

Edited February 25, 2016 by looptab

[dtissagirl]

I do wonder how many unsuspected viewers were left extra confuzzled by the lack of a wedding scene last night. They should ask for their money back.

[quarks]

I must say that I am shocked, shocked, to read that not one of you is even raising the possibility that just maybe people tuned in to see what, exactly, Oliver and the Drug Slaves were digging up in the flashbacks and to find out what happens next in the enthralling Oliver/Poppy romance!

[statsgirl]

You're right. And when they release the season 4 All Flashbacks, All The Time video, I'll be sure to buy it.  Maybe then I'll be able to understand what exactly is going on.

[dtissagirl]

I must say that I am shocked, shocked, to read that not one of you is even raising the possibility that just maybe people tuned in to see what, exactly, Oliver and the Drug Slaves were digging up in the flashbacks and to find out what happens next in the enthralling Oliver/Poppy romance!

 

I blame it on the unforgivable marketing snafu of not putting the ZOMBIE GHOST in any of the promos.

[Velocity23]

Final ratings 1.0 and 2.7 mil viewers

[BkWurm1]

Arrow's ratings were up this week.

 

1.0 / 2.67 million viewers.  

 

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/02/ratings-news-25th-february-2016.html

I wonder if there was just a ratings upswing across the board.  LoT were also up a point.  (.9 / 2.50 million viewers)  I mean, there was never a specific explanation for the downswing.  The slight uptick might not have any real reason either. 

[Morena]

Broadcast Live +7 ratings for Feb. 8-14, 2016  (Arrow - 4x13)

Adults 18-49 –  Total gain: Arrow 0.9 to 1.5 - Increase 67%

Viewers - total gain: 2445 to 3768 - increase 54%

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/02/29/broadcast-live-7-ratings-week-21-feb-8-14-2016/

[Morena]

[quarks]

Didn't quarks or someone here do an analysis about how ratings drop after every episode where Oliver & Felicity hit a snag in their relationship?  Maybe the writers are trying to soften fans up and give them hope after the Olicity breakup?

 

Yep, several pages back on this thread. It's not every episode, but yes, ratings/viewers often go up or stay steady when it looks like Olicity will get together, and go down whenever the two break apart, as seen in season three:

 

The Calm, 2.83 viewers. Oliver breaks it off with Felicity. Viewers drop to 2.32 (though in this particular case I don't think that drop had much if anything to do with Oliver/Felicity).

 

The Climb, 3.06 viewers. Oliver says I love you to Felicity. Viewers stay steady to 3.06.

 

Uprising, 2.94 viewers. Felicity tells Oliver that she doesn't want to be a woman he loves. Viewers drop to 2.67.

 

Nanda Parbat, 3.07 viewers. Felicity sleeps with Ray. Viewers drop to 2.56.

 

Broken Arrow, 2.47 viewers. Felicity almost says "I love you" to Oliver. Viewers jump to 2.72.  For once, the CW promos might have helped, since that episode was:

 

The Fallen, 2.72 viewers. Oliver joins the LoA and Felicity walks away crying. Viewers fall to 2.39, the second lowest of the season.

 

This is hardly conclusive, since there's three counter examples - ratings and viewers soared after Oliver saw Felicity kissing Ray in "Draw Back Your Bow," although that's partly because the next episode was "The Brave and the Bold,"; ratings and viewers both went up after "This Is Your Sword," the episode where Oliver married Nyssa, and viewers went down after "My Name Is Oliver Queen," where Oliver and Felicity drove off into the sunset together.  

 

Season four's harder to analyze because from episodes 1 through 7, Oliver and Felicity were together. That said, there was a slight drop when Oliver didn't propose after all in "Green Arrow" (2.67 to 2.50), and another drop after "Haunted" (which brought back Ray and Sara, and featured several Oliver/Laurel moments plus their hug), viewers did drop from 2.60 to 2.30 - for "Lost Souls," which also just happened to be the one episode in that period suggesting that Oliver/Felicity might break up.  Viewers popped back up to 2.69 after Oliver/Felicity ended that episode confident that they were going to make it as a couple.

 

There was a major drop in ratings/viewers after episode 8, but I can't blame that on Samantha or Oliver/Felicity, since 8 was the crossover episode.  Viewers stayed steady after Oliver proposed to Felicity in episode 9, but did drop slightly after he proposed again in episode 10, and dropped again after episode 11.  They went up after Code of Silence, which had Oliver and Felicity's engagement party (pro Oliver/Felicity) but also reminded us that Oliver was lying to Felicity (con Oliver/Felicity) and ended with the reveal that Oliver was going to have to admit the truth to Felicity (also con Oliver/Felicity.)

 

I think that, once again, the ratings/total viewers for the next episode are really anyone's guess - sure, there's a trend suggesting that they might go down because Oliver/Felicity broke up, but there's enough exceptions to this that I'm unwilling to say they will drop for 416, especially since not all Arrow viewers care about what happens to Oliver and Felicity. 

[Morena]

Broadcast Live +7 ratings for Feb. 15-21, 2016  (Arrow - 4x134)

Adults 18-49 –  Total gain: Arrow 0.9 to 1.6 - Increase 78%

Viewers - total gain: 2444 to 3848 - increase 57%

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/03/07/broadcast-live-7-ratings-feb-15-21-2016-week-22/

[Velocity23]

se

season finales on the CW

[ArrowFan]

Good theory. I also think that last year's xover pulled people in because it showed how great ARROW can be. This year's xover showed how pedestrian, tropey & cliche the ARROW writers can be. Instead of giving them an appealing storyline, they gave them the dumb BMD that is poorly written with no good reason to turn in. If you were not an ARROW viewer, why would you turn into ARROW after that xover? To see how BMD breaks up one of the most organic relationships of the show? To see how stupid the writers need to make OQ this season to make their stupid stories work? Any potential bump was lost the minute they pinned their hopes on a poorly designed BMD.

 

I think this is absolutely true. The first crossover last year had a HUGE audience.

This year? It was quite a bit less. Which means less people sticking around.

 

But in general, Season 4 avg viewership (so far) is only about 100K off from the Season 3 average viewership. 100K is literally nothing. It's a change in work schedules to Wednesday night.

 

I predict that the demo rating will be higher for Season 4, though.

Edited March 10, 2016 by olicityfan

[Morrigan2575]

I think this is absolutely true. The first crossover last year had a HUGE audience.

This year? It was quite a bit less. Which means less people sticking around.

 

But in general, Season 4 avg viewership (so far) is only about 100K off from the Season 3 average viewership. 100K is literally nothing. It's a change in work schedules to Wednesday night.

 

I predict that the demo rating will be higher for Season 4, though.

Both 308 and 408 scored the exact same demo 1.4 and were only off by 260K viewers, roughly a 6.6% drop year to year.  I wouldn't call that "quite a bit".