Ratings and Scheduling: Hail to the Gods

[Chaser]

The Fallen was the only episode I was actually going to watch again.

[Starfish35]

That should air Sept 10.

ETA: I see, my mistake. I typed The Fallen instead of The Return. Now corrected.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Starfish35

[Chaser]

I was trying to figure out the episode order but I haven't finished my first coffee of the day yet.... So it wasn't happening. Lol

Now I'm happy.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Looking at the schedule for the upcoming weeks, it looks like they're skipping over Public Enemy between Suicidal Tendancies (airing the 27th) and Broken Arrow (airing Sept 3). This puts them on track to wrap up the season by the premiere.

So the five skipped episodes in reruns are:

Uprising

Midnight City

Canaries

The Return

Public Enemy

 

Those eps have something in common: They are all eps I'm not interested in watching again. I can watch the pertinent clips on YouTube, thank you very much ;)

[Starfish35]

I like The Return for the Oliver and Thea bonding. But the rest, yes, I agree.

ETA: I wonder what criteria they use to determine which episodes they skip? As far as I can tell, they haven't skipped any episodes so far on The Flash reruns this summer (I thought they had missed one, but looking back I can't figure out which one it might have been). I don't know how they're going to catch up by the premiere, but they're not going by the same schedule as Arrow is.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Starfish35

[kismet]

A lot of those EPs felt like fillers. They had a few pertinent scenes but nothing too critical or necessary for a rewatch if time is limited.

I for one am happy about public enemy. That had Quentin at his most out of character esp as a cop. I got his anger that seemed appropriate, but his behavior as a cop was so unprofessional which is not like him. PB knocked his scenes out off the park but his actions were unrealistic. And with ta/oq returning to save sc in s4, seems best to forget about that fun to watch but over the top manhunt.

Also I don't watch those horrible hospital scenes with the ridiculous nanobites or whatever they are. And all the manipulation of medicine for plot. Which ruined whatever buzz the other parts of the show had going on.

[dtissagirl]

I think there's an actual limit of how many times an episode can be aired in broadcast network. WAY back in 90s/early 2000s, it used to be 3 times -- so one new run, and two reruns. Maybe that's still the norm? I have no idea.

 

Running random searches on the Futon Critics listing:

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/showatch/arrow/listings/

 

They've aired the pilot, and the crossover episode 4 times, but that's the most I can find. Maybe 4 is the new limit?

[Chaser]

Is it sad it took me forever to remember what happened in The Return?

[wonderwall]

Is it sad it took me forever to remember what happened in The Return?

SAME. wow for the life of me I couldn't remember what it was about until someone mentioned the thea/oliver bonding moments

[quarks]

I think there's an actual limit of how many times an episode can be aired in broadcast network. WAY back in 90s/early 2000s, it used to be 3 times -- so one new run, and two reruns. Maybe that's still the norm? I have no idea.

 

Entirely depends on the contracts.

[Morrigan2575]

I think there's an actual limit of how many times an episode can be aired in broadcast network. WAY back in 90s/early 2000s, it used to be 3 times -- so one new run, and two reruns. Maybe that's still the norm? I have no idea.

Running random searches on the Futon Critics listing:

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/showatch/arrow/listings/

They've aired the pilot, and the crossover episode 4 times, but that's the most I can find. Maybe 4 is the new limit?

Entirely depends on the contracts.

Interesting about it being contract dependent. I had heard once (back on Marc Berman's old site) that it was 3 airings for free, after that the Network had to pay. I also heard (but I can't remember where) that the CW went for 23 episode seasons (and wanted as much as 24) from their shows in order to limit the number of times they aired repeats.

Do you think CW gets more repeats since all (most?) of it's shows are made by WB and/or CBS Studios?

Edited August 25, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[quarks]

Interesting about it being contract dependent. I had heard once (back on Marc Berman's old site) that it was 3 airings for free, after that the Network had to pay. I also heard (but I can't remember where) that the CW went for 23 episode seasons (and wanted as much as 24) from their shows in order to limit the number of times they aired repeats.

Do you think CW gets more repeats since all (most?) of it's shows are made by WB and/or CBS Studios?

 

Historically, at least, NBC has paid for more repeats, but I have no idea if this is still true. Some of the kiddie networks (Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon/NickToons) also pay for more repeats.

 

My guess is that the CW want both more repeats/original programming because the network doesn't have sports, although its affiliates do. Given the ratings for Arrow repeats listed above, I doubt they're paying that much for repeats - and the strong DVD sales indicated by the Amazon.com rankings suggest that Arrow (and Flash, which not surprisingly is outselling Arrow) that Arrow can make up the revenue there.

[statsgirl]

I for one am happy about public enemy. That had Quentin at his most out of character esp as a cop. I got his anger that seemed appropriate, but his behavior as a cop was so unprofessional which is not like him. PB knocked his scenes out off the park but his actions were unrealistic. And with ta/oq returning to save sc in s4, seems best to forget about that fun to watch but over the top manhunt.

I'd rather watch Public Enemy even with the hospital scenes because there was some good stuff for Roy and Team Arrow.

 

The one I wish they'd skip is Suicidal Tendencies, which is on this week.  Ray ruined Digg and Lyla's wedding and some very good Deadshot storyline.  Ray told Felicity he didn't trust her judgement and then that he had never kept anything from her when he clearly had, he made Felicity be mean to Oliver and Oliver mean to Felicity, he listened to Oliver rather than Felicity, and he made Felicity come to him to apologize first.

 

Not to mention. Roy was left by everyone.

 

I never hated Ray before that episode.  It three more episodes before I could tolerate a scene with him again.

Edited August 27, 2015 by statsgirl

[BkWurm1]

I'd rather watch Public Enemy even with the hospital scenes because there was some good stuff for Roy and Team Arrow.

 

The one I wish they'd skip is Suicidal Tendencies, which is on this week.  Ray ruined Digg and Lyla's wedding and some very good Deadshot storyline.  Ray told Felicity he didn't trust her judgement and then that he had never kept anything from her when he clearly had, he made Felicity be mean to Oliver and Oliver mean to Felicity, he listened to Oliver rather than Felicity, and he made Felicity come to him to apologize first.

 

Not to mention. Roy was left by everyone.

 

I never hated Ray before that episode.  It three more episodes before I could tolerate a scene with him again.

I had the same thoughts but I think the other episodes were cut because you don't miss anything important and Ray finding out about Oliver being the Arrow and then finally deciding he's not going to turn him in is an important plot point for the rest of the season.  Otherwise, suddenly Ray is showing up in his suit and hanging and giving high fives and the narrative had to account for the change. 

Edited August 27, 2015 by BkWurm1

[kismet]

I'd rather watch Public Enemy even with the hospital scenes because there was some good stuff for Roy and Team Arrow.

 

The one I wish they'd skip is Suicidal Tendencies, which is on this week.  Ray ruined Digg and Lyla's wedding and some very good Deadshot storyline.  Ray told Felicity he didn't trust her judgement and then that he had never kept anything from her when he clearly had, he made Felicity be mean to Oliver and Oliver mean to Felicity, he listened to Oliver rather than Felicity, and he made Felicity come to him to apologize first.

 

Not to mention. Roy was left by everyone.

 

I never hated Ray before that episode.  It three more episodes before I could tolerate a scene with him again.

Oh my goodness. I hated ray so much in this episode. But in many ways it felt cathartic to finally just hate him. They gave me permission to just hate him and that felt good. I didn't like FS in this episode either, but she had good moments when you cut out ray scenes.

But the ep did have the amazing Deadshot scenes, which I loved. And of course the Diggle wedding. So that makes it worthwhile, I'll just ffwd through the bad parts. I do feel like it covered some vital to s3 plot points so I can understand them rerunning it.

[Velocity23]

Ratings for yesterdays repeat

 

[Morrigan2575]

How sad is that. An Arrow rerun does better in the demo then a NEW Beauty and The Beast and The CW still renewed that POS.

[Chaser]

Beauty & the Beast is so odd. Does it do that well in overseas markets? I don't even see a vocal fandom.

[quarks]

Well, Amazon rankings suggest that Beauty and the Beast is sorta selling DVDs.

 

Season one: 5,011 in Movies and TV

Season two: 7,091 in Movies and TV

 

Just not selling well.

 

To compare:

 

Arrow

 

Season one: 1,572 in Movies and TV

Season two: 1,165 in Movies and TV

Season three (presales): 791 in Movies and TV

 

Flash

 

Season one (presales): 631 in Movies and TV

 

Reign

 

Season one: 2,921 in Movies and TV

Season two: 1,787 in Movies and TV

 

The Vampire Diaries

 

Season one: 5,947

Season two: 1,719

Season three: 1,460

Season four: 1,588

Season five: 1,139

 

So, yeah, I have to assume Beauty and the Beast is at least doing OK internationally, since it doesn't seem to be doing at all well in the U.S. compared to other CW shows.

[kismet]

Beauty & the Beast is so odd. Does it do that well in overseas markets? I don't even see a vocal fandom.

  

Well, Amazon rankings suggest that Beauty and the Beast is sorta selling DVDs.

 

Season one: 5,011 in Movies and TV

Season two: 7,091 in Movies and TV

 

Just not selling well.

 

To compare:

 

Arrow

 

Season one: 1,572 in Movies and TV

Season two: 1,165 in Movies and TV

Season three (presales): 791 in Movies and TV

 

Flash

 

Season one (presales): 631 in Movies and TV

 

Reign

 

Season one: 2,921 in Movies and TV

Season two: 1,787 in Movies and TV

 

The Vampire Diaries

 

Season one: 5,947

Season two: 1,719

Season three: 1,460

Season four: 1,588

Season five: 1,139

 

So, yeah, I have to assume Beauty and the Beast is at least doing OK internationally, since it doesn't seem to be doing at all well in the U.S. compared to other CW shows.

There is a huge fandom (Beasties) which I am a part of (although not as active as I used to be). In s2 there were multiple campaigns to networks to help encourage renewal. Letters, roses, etc it was big. In fact the reason I think Pedowitz announced the s4 renewal so soon was to avoid the campaigns again this season. They have become less vocal this season I think because they have a renewed season & because they are now a summer show - so less opportunities to be vocal. I'm sure if you askd them, the major TV writers are very familiar with the fandom.

A lot of the fandom is international so that does impact some stuff. But we have won some eonline & other online contests. The Save our Show was perhap the biggest win last year. But there have been others victories or strong presence in online votes. It can be a feisty bunch. There have been issues & battles with other fandoms & media. Tiffany Vogt & the Beasties had a very ugly fall out.

Internationally it sells well & works as part of the Cbs/cw bundle. Honestly, I don't think its that expensive of a show. And I feel like they have trimmed a lot of excess. So if you give it a tight budget, it can probably turn an easy profit. Making it a summer show with a limited run I think was a smart decision for the network. Its a little workhorse that helps increase profits without detracting from other opportunities or revenue sources.

BATB is good, I enjoy it. I wish more people would give it a shot. S3 is having some script problems, there is so repetitive stupidity there, but not as bad as some of OQs repetitive stupidity in s3. Ratings are great indicators of stuff, but I don't think it always reflects accurately on a network like the CW. I think TPTB have other equations & data that they look at when making business decisions. I appreciate that Pedowitz & company don't just look at ratings. The ratings are certainly not always reflective or friendly to Arrow at times.

[lemotomato]

To compare:

 

Arrow

 

Season one: 1,572 in Movies and TV

Season two: 1,165 in Movies and TV

Season three (presales): 791 in Movies and TV

Interesting. So season 3 did better in the ratings than previous seasons and is selling more DVDs too? 

[wonderwall]

Interesting. So season 3 did better in the ratings than previous seasons and is selling more DVDs too? 

I think that's the rankings now, it makes sense that S1 and S2 are lower in ranks because they're older seasons whilst S3 is new. 

[quarks]

Interesting. So season 3 did better in the ratings than previous seasons and is selling more DVDs too? 

 

 

I think that's the rankings now, it makes sense that S1 and S2 are lower in ranks because they're older seasons whilst S3 is new. 

 

These are the Amazon.com sales rankings from when I typed up the post today - they've probably already shifted a bit, since Amazon.com usually adjusts its sales about every two hours or so, and for popular categories, sometimes adjusts its sales rankings every hour.  

 

The rankings more or less reflect the number of items sold in a given month - basically, Amazon.com's algorithms give a lot more weight to a sale made about one hour ago than to a sale made five years ago.  Since the season three Blu-Ray/DVD is coming out in about a month, it makes sense that current sales for Arrow season three are higher than for seasons one and two - you can see a similar pattern with The Vampire Diaries, where sales rankings steadily increase for similar reasons.  

 

That upcoming release date (September 22) may also be why the sales rankings for both Arrow season three and Flash season one are higher than when I last checked a month or so back.

 

Which is to say, I don't know if Arrow season three is actually outselling unit sales for the first two seasons, or just selling a lot more in August 2015 because the Blu-Ray/DVD is coming out next month. About all I can say is that it's selling, and that its previous seasons are outselling Beauty and the Beast.

[Velocity23]

BATB was one of the shows that CBS insisted on renewing. They also had sold the first 3 season internationally very early on in a lot of countries. CBS doesnt have much success on the CW. I think the last show that could be considered a success was 90210.

[Morrigan2575]

I've heard so many explanations as to.why BATB keeps getting renewed. Sells well internationally, part of the original Netflix deal, is a CBS show and the CW is contractually required to keep a number of CBS shows on the schedule.

Not sure what keeps the show alive but it's certainly not the ratings

[Velocity23]

Its still the only show that is completely owned by CBS.

[Morrigan2575]

I can't remember where I read it but someone suggested that it might have been a requirement of the merger that the CW has to air shows from both studios.

I believe Jane The Virgin and Crazy Ex-Girlfriend are both CBS productions.

[Velocity23]

JTV has WB and CBS listed as  production companies. But its more of a CBS production.

[statsgirl]

Internationally it sells well & works as part of the Cbs/cw bundle. Honestly, I don't think its that expensive of a show. And I feel like they have trimmed a lot of excess. So if you give it a tight budget, it can probably turn an easy profit. Making it a summer show with a limited run I think was a smart decision for the network. Its a little workhorse that helps increase profits without detracting from other opportunities or revenue sources.

It also doesn't have the stunts, the sets or the size of cast that Arrow does.

 

And of the cast, there are no names bigger than Kristin Kreuk, certainly no one like John Barrowman or Neal McDonough or Brandon Routh.  Also, it's shot in Canada where the dollar currently stands at less than $0.75 of the US dollar so it's really cheap to make.

[Morrigan2575]

No shit?! Yay...let's go to Canada for shopping.

[statsgirl]

Yep. I just double checked.  It's $0.753 right now.  For anyone with US dollars, Canada is a great for events, hotels and shopping.  (Sadly, I won't be visiting the US any time soon.)

[Chaser]

I'm exchanging dollars for pounds and euros this week for an upcoming trip and this conversation is making me weep.

[Starfish35]

From a discussion in the spoilers thread:

The ratings for 402 "Sara".

CW – Arrow

Viewers: 2.31 million (#5), A18-49: 0.8/ 3 (#5)

8:30 p.m.

CW – Arrow

Viewers: 2.19 million (#5), A18-49: 0.8/ 2 (#5)

http://www.tvmediainsights.com/forum/topic/wednesday-101514-4/#post-228455

My memory was faulty. There was a drop at the half hours, but it was in total viewers, not the demo. I thought there had been a drop in the demo rating.

[statsgirl]

I think  total viewers is a better measure of how well (or not) it went over. The demo as an assessment tool never made sense to me, especially as younger viewers don't translate into better acceptance of ad pitches.

[Primal Slayer]

Since Arrow opened up 3x01 with higher numbers vs. 2x23, I don't think anyone really thought about quitting the show or anything because of Sara's death.

[BkWurm1]

Since Arrow opened up 3x01 with higher numbers vs. 2x23, I don't think anyone really thought about quitting the show or anything because of Sara's death.

But the numbers dropped after the season opener, aka after Sara died.

[Primal Slayer]

Numbers usually drop anyway after the season opener so that didn't surprise me. 2.8 people didn't tune in knowing that she was even going to be in the episode. Not to mention the ratings up went after 3x02 so even if people did tune out, they didn't tune out for very long.

[apinknightmare]

I like Sara, but I think the number of people who permanently tuned out because she died is probably very small, relatively speaking. More people probably peaced out because they thought the rest of the season would be depressing as hell. And they were correct. 

[quarks]

Regarding the drop from "The Calm" to "Sara":

 

The ratings went from 3x01 - 2.8 to 3x02 - 2.3, which isn't bad given premieres and finales are usually higher.

 

 

 

Numbers usually drop anyway after the season opener so that didn't surprise me.

 

 

No, it's bad. First, it's an 18% drop. Second, "Sara" had the lowest total viewers for the entire season, so this drop cannot be blamed just on "oh, well, premieres and finales are usually higher," since the episode did worse than other episodes which were also not premieres/finales.

 

Third, with Arrow, with the exception of the pilot, it's not true that premieres and finales are usually higher. For instance, in the second season, total viewers went up from 2.74 to 3.06 from the premiere ("City of Heroes") to the second episode ("Identity.") And it didn't stop there: "Broken Dolls," (2.89), "League of Assassins" (2.80), "Keep Your Enemies Closer" (3.09), "The Scientist" (3.24), "Three Ghosts" (3.02), "Tremors" (2.95), and "Heir to the Demon" (2.86).  All of these were considerably higher than the finale, "Unthinkable" (2.37).  

 

This also held true in the third season. "The Calm" had 2.83 total viewers, later beaten by "The Brave and the Bold" (3.92), "The Climb" (3.06), "Left Behind" (3.06), "Midnight City" (2.91), "Uprising" (2.94), "The Return," (2.91), "Nanda Parbat," (3.07), "Suicidal Tendencies" (2.86), and tied with "My Name is Oliver Queen" (2.83).  That puts "The Calm" and "My Name Is Oliver Queen" in the upper middle of Arrow episodes, but not at the top.

 

Total viewers for "Sara" probably dropped for a number of reasons, most probably that it looked like a very depressing episode - Sara had just died and Oliver and Felicity had just broken up after barely dating and Oliver hadn't gotten his company back and Roy was lying to Oliver about Thea.  It's also very possible that at least some fans were reacting not so much to Sara's death in particular, but rather to a long string of violent deaths of women on Arrow (Shado, Moira, Kate Spencer, Isabel, Sara). All I can say is that many viewers did not see the last minute or two of "The Calm" and say, wow, I have got to tune in next week.

 

All that said:

 

1. Total viewers did recover after "Sara," though this may have been more thanks to Barry Allen than anything on Arrow. Total viewers jumped up during and after the Flash crossover, and jumped up again for the finale, which had a Barry Allen cameo. About the only things I'm willing to conclude from this are that Barry Allen is popular, and killing off Sara didn't lead to a permanent drop in total viewers for the third season.  (Arrow seems to agree about Barry Allen's popularity: the behind the scenes look at stunts outright stated that Barry Allen was a last minute addition to that episode, presumably to draw in viewers for the season finale.)

 

2. At 2.32, "Sara" still had more total viewers than many season two episodes, including "The Promise" (2.21), "The Man Under the Hood" (2.26), "Seeing Red," (2.19, Arrow's series low) and "City of Fire," (2.31.)

 

In three of those four episodes, Sara was dating Oliver and a member of Team Arrow.

 

This isn't something this forum (me included) necessarily likes to dwell on, but total viewers dropped from 2.86 to 2.45 from "Heir to the Demon" to "Time of Death," a 14% drop, and then again after "Time of Death," down to 2.21, another 10% drop. Total viewers came back slightly for "Suicide Squad" and "Birds of Prey," (though still well below season 2A and equivalent episodes in season 1B), then sank again, staying low ("Deathstroke," 2.32, "The Man Under the Hood," 2.26, "Seeing Red," 2.19) until Sara left the team in "Seeing Red." (Episode 20). After that, total viewers started to creep back up, finally reaching 2.37 for "Unthinkable." This can't all be attributed to spring and basketball, since the equivalent episodes of season 1B didn't experience as severe a decline in total viewers ("Home Invasion" even had a bit of a jump), and although total viewers for the final episodes of season 3B jumped around all over the place, all of those episodes had a higher number of total viewers than the episodes in season 2B.

 

On the other hand, it's not at all clear that the drop can be attributed solely to Sara hooking up with Oliver. Fans had a number of other complaints. Still, whether or not that drop happened because Sara joined Team Arrow, other evidence suggests that although Sara hooking up with Oliver/joining Team Arrow might not have been popular, Sara herself was. She's associated with better rated episodes; a number of YouTube vids are dedicated to her; and viewers did drop, even if temporarily, after her death. The biggest evidence: the CW is marketing her right after Brandon Routh in promotional materials (in posters, she's more prominent than Victor Garber, the show's prestige actor) and chosen her to be a major player in an expensive spinoff. Now, yes, we've all had fun criticizing the CW's promotional efforts, but still, I don't think they would have done this without some numbers to give them some confidence in her popularity.

Edited September 15, 2015 by quarks

[Starfish35]

Here's a good site for those of you that like to look at the numbers. It has tables with all of the episodes, the viewership, and the 18-49 demo rating.

http://www.spottedratings.com/2014/10/spotvault-arrow-cw-2014-15-ratings.html

[kismet]

I really do not think ratings tell the whole story with shows on the CW. It really seems to be an archaic system. I appreciate all the work people on this forum do to get the data, I just think it leaves out a lot. I feel like if anything the adjusted ratings that include streaming are the most accurate. The Vixen article awhile back said that a good percentage (the majority) of viewership for all the Flarrowverse come from online & tv streaming methods.

 

The reaction to Sara's death was felt on forums & social media sites. People & reviewers alike were commenting as the season wore on how the loss of SL was affecting the feel of the show. I'm not sure LL's BC filled the void that was left. It also didn't help the LoA plots that they had cooked up were not as successful in execution. The episodes that were without OQ seemed to lack the same buzz or excitement as traditional Arrow shows. It might be more appropriate to use social media & review sites as a more accurate story of how character/story loss is felt over just ratings.

 

Clearly, ARROW's loss is LoT's gain. SL has a certain amount of fans that will follow her to LoT. Add that to the fanbases of the VG, BR & the other characters coming from the FLASH and the show has a solid set of fans to start off the show.

[Primal Slayer]

Except social media sites/reviews make up a very small percentage of viewers. It's like movie reviews, they can be really bad for movies but the movie in question can still make bank. Half the audience hated Olicity in S3 and half the audience hated Black Canary in S3 but the season was still one of the higher rated in terms of ratings.

[Chaser]

Shows have two type of viewers. The traditional ones who watch at airing. Maybe they make a comment or two, possibly vote in a poll if they see one. But generally, their viewing is once weekly. Then you have the non-traditional viewers who download or watch online, they DVR the show and watch their favorite episodes over and over. They are more active online and more likely to purchase merchandise and attend Cons.

 

I've always thought that of The CW as a 'cult' network. What it lacks in ratings, it makes up in passion. I feel pretty comfortable in believing that their 'non-traditional' viewers have a larger impact than the average. TVD, Supernatural, Arrow. Ratings can't compete, but the fan bases can.

Edited September 15, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[kismet]

I really do not think Half the audience hated Olicity, just like I don't think Half the audience hated the BC. I just don't see any evidence that has properly determined what % of the audience hated what. I also think there is no simple poll or survey that could answer that question. I love olicity, I hated the majority of the way it was handled in s3. I like the BC, but hated most of her story in s3. So does that mean I hated either, absolutely not. The only thing I hated for sure about s3 was how everything was compromised for Plot with a side of Plot.

 

Nielsen ratings also make up a small percentage, the majority of homes don't even have them & its almost impossible to get them. The streaming & delayed viewing I think is a more accurate number for the CW audiense. So it really just needs to be a blend of all the available information. Twitter trends during show & immediately afterwards at least tell you what people are talking about for good or bad. Media review sites tell you what critics are responding to, and there are some reputable sites that review ARROW. Entertainment sites can tell you what people are asking for or voting for. Comments sections, comic cons & forums tell you what diehard fans are responding to.

 

Its an equation that somehow incorporates all of this information is where the truth of the story really lies. But its also something that is hard to monitor & change during the season as the production & writing is so far ahead from when the show airs. By the time, the writers or TPTB notice an unfavorable response to a story or character item it is too late to really fix it or change eps that are already in the production cue. There can be small modifications but nothing big.

[dtissagirl]

I feel like if anything the adjusted ratings that include streaming are the most accurate.

Just a quick correction, because I see this a lot. Adjusted ratings do not account for streaming views. Nielsen ratings only cover live TV and DVR/time-shifted viewing. And the DVR viewing is limited to three modes only [although there is talk of expanding the time spans]: 1. same night; 2. following 3 days; 3. following 7 days.

 

There are no numbers for streaming views of much of anything published anywhere the general public can see.

Edited September 15, 2015 by dtissagirl

[dtissagirl]

Half the audience hated Olicity in S3 and half the audience hated Black Canary in S3 but the season was still one of the higher rated in terms of ratings.

 

There are absolutely no available data that supports any percentages of hate for anything on Arrow.

 

There is one thing, though: The CW's marketing department [which is currently massively understaffed and underbudgeted] is pushing S4 with Oliver/Felicity promotion above everything else. From that I can only imply that they have numbers that tell them that pushing O/F is the best way to market the show, with the little money they have to do it.

[Morrigan2575]

Just a quick correction, because I see this a lot. Adjusted ratings do not account for streaming views. Nielsen only covers live TV and DVR viewing. And the DVR viewing is limited to three modes only [although there is talk of expanding the time spans]: 1. same night; 2. following 3 days; 3. following 7 days.

 

There are no numbers for streaming views of much of anything published anywhere the general public can see.

I've asked this question before at various ratings forums but I don't think I ever got a true answer.  Maybe you know.

 

Is it all DVR viewings or just Nielsen households?

Is it all DVRs or just Tivo that report?

Edited September 15, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[wonderwall]

Meh, hate speaks louder than love apparently. So it seems like half the fandom hates Olicity when it isn't really like that. One thing to prove this is that on facebook, the Olicity image has the most likes of every photo upwards of 300k, whereas the negative Olicity comments got likes upwards of 2k (and I'm being generous here). 

 

Not to mention Olicity is still what all the media outlets are talking about, only reason why is because that's the subject matter that gives them the most traffic. Not everyone comments though so the traffic is probably much higher than we think. 

 

And just like what @dtissagirl said, the promos have been heavy on Olicity. Obviously the network wouldn't push it if they weren't confident re: the amount of Olicity supporters.

 

If anything, the numbers are there to prove that Olicity is popular. The numbers, however, aren't there to prove that Laurel is as popular. 'As' being the key word here. 

[apinknightmare]

Being the internet message board lovers that we are, I think it's easy to forget that the majority of people who watch Arrow (and most shows, for that matter), are casual viewers, and never bother to comment on message boards or articles, and don't make a habit of liking Facebook pages and posts. Networks have stats to show what is and isn't popular, and while online response is a factor, they've got access to statistics and data for what the audience does and does not like that we will never, ever see. 

[dtissagirl]

I've asked this question before at various rantings forums but I don't think I ever got a true answer.  Maybe you know.

 

Is it all DVR viewings or just Nielsen households?

Is it all DVRs or just Tivo that report?

 

As far as I know, everything Nielsen measures is sample-based, not full-spectrum, including DVR.

 

I found a methodology description in their Total Audience Report for 2014 Q4:

 

TELEVISION METHODOLOGY

 

“On Traditional TV” includes Live usage plus any playback viewing within the measurement period. Time-shifted TV is playback primarily on a DVR but includes playback from video on demand, DVD recorders, server based DVR’s and services like Start Over.

 

“On Traditional TV” reach includes those viewing at least one minute within the measurement period. This includes Live viewing plus any playback within themeasurement period. Fourth Quarter 2014 Television data is based on the following measurement interval: 09/29/14-12/28/14. As of February 2011, “DVR Playback” has been incorporated into the Persons Using Television (PUT) statistic.

Metrics for “Using a DVD/Blu-Ray Device” and “Using a Game Console” are based on when these devices are in use for any purpose, not just for accessing media content. For example, “Using a Game Console” will also include time when the game console is being used to play video games.

Data used in this report is inclusive of multicultural audiences.  Hispanic consumer audiences are comprised of both English and Spanish speaking representative populations.

From: http://ir.nielsen.com/files/doc_presentations/2015/total-audience-report-q4-2014.pdf-- it's a PDF