S04.E07: The Snow Queen

[MaiLuna]

 

I did notice on rewatch that whenever Snow saw Emma's magic, she would look more angry than scared.

This really bothered me. Snow said "she looked in our eyes and all she saw was fear". First, David wasn't scared. Second, Snow was afraid with the bottle, but with the lampost she just reprimanded Emma. Fear would've been understandable in that situation, she couldn't control her powers and she was dangerous. But she just blamed Emma for what happened to David like she had done it on purpose and that's even worse IMHO. It was that reaction that made Emma run away.

Edited February 14, 2015 by MaiLuna

[Camera One]

I actually thought this episode did a good job of providing Ingrid with a backstory which made her sympathetic yet it was believable why she would feel betrayed and angry.  I thought they did a clever job of incorporating the Duke from the movie.  Mostly, I think it worked because the three actresses they cast as sisters were believable and had chemistry together.  I wasn't that impressed with the Snow Queen, and this episode made me change my mind, so I think it was successful to some degree.

 

The present-day stuff was clunky as hell.  

 

It wasn't an excellent episode by any measure, but I personally wouldn't place it anywhere near the bottom.

[Dani-Ellie]

 But she just blamed Emma for what happened to David like she had done it on purpose and that's even worse IMHO. It was that reaction that made Emma run away.

 

This.

 

And look, I get it. I've seen the arguments that Snow snapped at her like a mother snaps at a child who's done something wrong. And I know that Snow couldn't have known what Ingrid had said to Emma to get her so worked up in the first place. And I know that the second Emma started to run, Snow softened and tried calling her back. But Snow snapping at her like that was the absolute worst thing she could have done.

 

There's a moment where you can actually see the heartbreak on Emma's face. Her eyes widen and you can see her thinking, "Oh my God, Ingrid was right." And you can see her walls shoot right up around her again as she turns to run.

[YaddaYadda]

But Snow snapping at her like that was the absolute worst thing she could have done.

 

But it was also completely normal because the person Snow loves more than anyone in the world and that includes her children, is David.

 

Snow risked her life and her unborn child's life by having her heart split even though she had no clue what the outcome of that would be.  

[KAOS Agent]

 

I've seen the arguments that Snow snapped at her like a mother snaps at a child who's done something wrong. And I know that Snow couldn't have known what Ingrid had said to Emma to get her so worked up in the first place.

 

I don't think Snow needs to be defended from her response to what happened with the light pole. It was a believable reaction. What needs defending is that her reaction blamed Emma for what happened after Emma had explicitly told them to stay the hell away from her. Even the Dark One was back there saying they should listen to Emma. Did they do that? No, they ignored all of her warnings and ultimately caused the problem that put David/Hook in danger. This was the second time in a week where they had ignored Emma's warnings to stay back and bad things happened due to uncontrollable magic. The first time Emma almost died in the ice cave. The second time Hook/David were nearly hit by a falling post. How about listening to someone when they tell you stay back instead of blaming them for the bad things that happen when you ignore their warnings? 

[KingOfHearts]

 

How about listening to someone when they tell you stay back instead of blaming them for the bad things that happen when you ignore their warnings?

Then there's Henry, who sneaked out after he was told to stay in the hovel and got injured after his mother's many pleas to stay away.

 

 

I don't think Snow needs to be defended from her response to what happened with the light pole. It was a believable reaction.

Replying in Relationships.

Edited February 15, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Zuleikha]

I liked the Snow Queen stuff. Yes, there was plot contrivance with the unattended princesses nearly getting snatched and Anna should be very grateful that Elsa's ice blasts to the heart don't work nearly as quickly as Ingrid's ice blasts to the heart.

 

But... what on earth are the writers thinking with how they're writing Robin? I'm ecstatic with how wonderfully Regina's been in this whole stupid triangle, but oh my goodness, do I have to eat my words about them not doing a David/Mary Margaret/Katherine redux. Just as David was supremely and unnecessarily douchey, so is the writing for Robin. Marian is DYING and he's not even trying to remember his feelings of love for her. I mean I think Regina's supremely fascinating, too, and I understand how once you fall for someone, you can't just turn off your feelings. I could live with Robin just not being able to move on and being torn and unable to save Marian. You can't turn your feelings on and off and it would be hard to resolve his divided heart while he can't interact with Marian meaningfully.

 

But he could still make some freaking effort! After the sweet scene with Will, couldn't we have one short scene of him by frozen Marian, telling stories of their time together, trying the kiss again, and then looking torn? Do the writers not understand that cheating is a real thing that happens and many of us in the audience will have strong emotional feels about it and it may make Outlaw Queen fans not be Outlaw Queen fans anymore if one half of the couple starts acting like a supreme a-hole? 

[KAOS Agent]

Do the writers not understand that cheating is a real thing that happens and many of us in the audience will have strong emotional feels about it and it may make Outlaw Queen fans not be Outlaw Queen fans anymore if one half of the couple starts acting like a supreme a-hole?

 

Nope. Because it's all about Regina. I don't say that in a Regina hating way, I say it to describe how the writers view and frame the story. We're supposed to really only look at Regina and how she struggles, but responds in a generally decent manner and isn't it awesome that this guy loves her sooooo much. The fact that Robin comes off as the most disgusting guy ever and a huge portion of the audience wants both Regina & Marian to kick him to the curb is lost on them. Let's not even look at the fact that there is a five year old boy who's losing his mother for the second time. Heaven forbid we be reminded that this whole thing affects a small child. The ridiculousness of some of the characters reactions to the whole adultery thing was so bad that Ginny admitted to spending 20 minutes coming up with some sort of headcanon for why on earth her character would say what she did. But hey, in general, Regina looks good and her redemption is coming along nicely. Pay no attention to the jackass who is her True Love and soulmate. Then again, these are the same showrunners who thought Neal setting Emma up for prison was a huge sacrifice on his part and theirs was quite a love story, so maybe they do see this all as highly romantic.

Edited March 11, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[Serena]

I am offended on behalf of David Nolan. He was a douche but 1. He was cursed, so NOT supposed to be a legendary, honorable hero, but rather Regina's vision of what she wished Snow would end up with. 2. At least HE was a little taken back when he thought his girlfriend had killed his wife.

David Nolan > Douche Hood

[Zuleikha]

David Nolan > Douche Hood

 

It is sad that this is a true statement. 

 

I don't say that in a Regina hating way, I say it to describe how the writers view and frame the story. We're supposed to really only look at Regina and how she struggles, but responds in a generally decent manner and isn't it awesome that this guy loves her sooooo much.

 

Way back in the dawn of the Internet days when writers' emails were easily accessible and the idea of direct contact between audience members and creative staff was strange and new, I wrote a detailed critique of a character arc to a staff writer for a fantasy show. I got an equally detailed response back that was a fascinating glimpse into the gap between what writers think they're putting out and how we, as audience members, consume it. My critique focused on problems with poorly established character motivations and the staff writer responded with points about camera angles and blocking. So I guess I can understand how in a staff room where all the writer discussion focuses on Regina's character arc, the fact that the Regina/Robin/Marian storyline let them demonstrate how much Regina has grown and changed as a person could cloud them to how they're destroying Robin as a character. They probably just forget to think of Robin as an actual character in his own right rather than a tool to serve Regina's story.

 

But it's so frustrating when a few tweaks in how Robin's written could have saved the whole debacle AND made Robin work better in his role in Regina's story. I have a horrible feeling that I'm going to have to treat Robin's characterization in this part of the story the way I do the end of 2B: pretend it never happened. 

 

However, as a former goth girl, I'm totally going to defend the CryptSex as sexy. #sorrynotsorry

[Shanna Marie]

I am offended on behalf of David Nolan. He was a douche but 1. He was cursed, so NOT supposed to be a legendary, honorable hero, but rather Regina's vision of what she wished Snow would end up with. 2. At least HE was a little taken back when he thought his girlfriend had killed his wife.

I think David gets a bad rap because he was "cheating" with his actual wife. His memories of being married to Kathryn were 100% fake. He had never lived as Kathryn's husband before he met Mary Margaret. Unlike the other Storybrookians, he didn't even have the 28 years of living that fake life based on fake memories. Even his memories of Storybrooke were fake because he was in a coma that whole time. He came out of the coma because the curse was weakening and wasn't given fake memories of being married to Kathryn until then, so his fake memories probably weren't as solid as everyone else's. So I imagine he was really confused because most of his being knew he belonged with Mary Margaret but he had a superficial layer of memories that had absolutely nothing real to them telling him he was married to Kathryn. And even so, he was taken aback when he thought Mary Margaret might have killed his wife.

 

Actually, this situation is one reason I have very little sympathy for Regina in what she's going through with Robin. What happened to her accidentally is exactly what she deliberately did to David and Snow -- and in that case, they really were married. It would have been a good step toward showing her redemption if she'd had even a moment of self-awareness, of realizing that this is what Snow went through and maybe feeling a teeny bit bad about having done it, maybe even (gasp!) apologizing. Or if instead of griping at Emma for ruining her life she'd remembered that she'd deliberately murdered the previous guy who just seemed to be starting to show interest in Emma, breaking up Emma's relationship. Instead, she can only focus on her own pain, with no awareness that she's going through what she did to others (karma's a bitch!).

 

But the real jerk in this whole scenario is Robin. It's like they went out of their way to make him look like an utter jackass. Not only does he not seem to care in the least that his girlfriend was the reason he lost his wife, but it's the memory of what his wife meant to his life and what she sacrificed in order to be with him that inspires him to "follow his heart" (I don't think it was his heart he was following) and sleep with Regina while Marian is under a spell. I mean, really, he rationalizes cheating on his wife by thinking about how she followed her heart to be with him.

[Camera One]

I was waiting for the site to come back up, so I rewatched "The Snow Queen".  

It's surprising how my opinions haven't really changed.  I still thought this episode was half good, and half bad.  Granted, the bad parts seem even worse now than before.  

The Regina/Robin Hood stuff was unbearable to rewatch.  I know flashbacks seem unnecessary but dialogue about the past on this show are even worse.  I'd rather have seen Robin meeting Marian than hearing some boring story in a boring scene between Robin Hood and Will.  

The good stuff stood out as lost potential even more.  They set up an interesting potential plotline for Emma's family learning to deal with her magic, but it was basically a clumsy setup for

Spoiler

the worst two-parter in history with "Smash the Mirror".  In my original post, I thought Ginnifer Goodwin might get to follow through on the setup in the next or upcoming episodes, but nope.

I still liked the Snow Queen origin story, but really, it's "Frozen" if the ending was sad.  In the movie, Anna survived but in this episode, Helga died.  Ingrid's struggle in this episode was Elsa's struggle in the movie.  I still think it was clever how they used Duke Weaselton and gave the origin story for the gloves and how Elsa & Anna's mother became the Queen of Arendelle.  But they used their usual trick of making the villain the polar opposite.  It was frustrating as hell that Ingrid got the gloves but didn't put them on when Duke Weaselton was coming on to her.  

The Snow Queen and Rumple's talk at the end was even more stupid in hindsight.

Spoiler

We never saw him try to take over the world after this.  What did Ingrid whisper in his ear that he had to do to cleave the dagger, something he would "do with pleasure"?  Sap the magic from Emma?  Hat the fairies? 

I suppose at least in 4A, the pieces fell together more coherently than, say, the whole Coven storyline in Season 7.  For example, the ribbons did come up again later.

Edited February 9, 2019 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

I think this one really suffers from their lack of worldbuilding and being entirely unclear on the role of magic and attitude toward magic in their society. Ingrid going straight to "I'm a monster and must be hidden away" seems like a drastic overreaction, as does the fear of anyone finding out about her, especially given that these are the same people who talk about consulting with Rumple, when we know he's a monster, and who have conversations with rock trolls. I know that some of this comes from the movie and the way Elsa was treated, but at least she nearly killed her sister with her powers. You'd think that Ingrid saving her sister with her powers would have had a totally different reaction. Then there's where the powers come from. By adding Ingrid into the mix, they seem to be making it a genetic thing, and it's not even a spontaneous mutation in Ingrid that got passed on, since Elsa isn't a direct descendant, so is it a total surprise that someone in this family might have these powers?

All they really needed to do to make the way everyone was acting make a lot more sense (and even fix a problem with the movie) was create a King Harald the Terrible a few generations back who had the same ice powers and used them to terrorize his people by freezing their land if they couldn't pay their taxes and by freezing anyone who argued with him, so his castle was full of "ice sculptures" of his enemies. Then the royal family would have good reason to keep the ice powers secret, whether or not the person learned to control them, and there would be a reasonable expectation that the people would consider the person with powers a monster. That would then totally explain Ingrid's reactions and the way the Duke's threats affected her.

As for Emma, her problems just come out of the blue. Did Ingrid put a whammy on her to make her lose control? Because otherwise it makes no sense that she's never had trouble controlling her magic before, and now all of a sudden she's going totally haywire. Not to mention Snow's reaction, which goes back to that "what do these people think about magic?" problem. Everyone in Snow's life with magic, aside from the fairies, has been evil, so it would make sense for Snow to be afraid of Emma's powers, but that should have shown up long before now and should have been an ongoing source of conflict. Given that every human we've seen with magic other than Elsa and Emma has been evil, is it so bad that people are leery of it?

I did love the bit with the mirror and Belle pushing Hook away (she seemed to be having so much fun with that part that I kind of got the impression that Emilie was breaking character a bit). I know it was supposed to be a fake mirror, but when you think about it, Mirror Belle told the truth, and Hook seeing himself as handsome isn't a lie -- but then his vanity is to some extent the darker side of himself, since so many of his mistakes have been made out of pride.

I can't even with the Robin part of the story. It's just so warped. Did they even listen to or think about what they were writing? How did they get from him talking about the difference his wife made in his life and what she went through on his behalf because of her love for him to him using that as the rationalization for going after Regina? "My wife went through everything to be with the person she loved, and that means I should do whatever it takes to be with the person I love, who isn't my wife, but rather the person who took my wife away from me in the first place." I've been trying to make myself watch the episodes straight through, but I had to fast forward here.

12 hours ago, Camera One said:

Spoiler

What did Ingrid whisper in his ear that he had to do to cleave the dagger, something he would "do with pleasure"?  Sap the magic from Emma?  Hat the fairies? 

I think it was

Spoiler

the information that the thing he needed to cleave himself from the dagger was the heart of someone who knew him before he was the Dark One, meaning Hook. Killing Hook was something he'd do with pleasure.

[Camera One]

I forgot that one difference in rewatching was how much more disgusted I was with Rumple.  He had manipulated so many people's lives and had a hand in their tragedies (even though the people making the deals made their choice despite knowing the price of magic).  Reconciling that nastiness with the idea that he deserved a happy ending with Belle just makes me sick on rewatch. 

Spoiler

given Rumple made zero amends to his victims over the years.

Edited February 9, 2019 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

The Mommy and Me class of the fairytale princesses was a fun thing to see, especially Aurora's freakout about the "Devil box" in her room. That's the kind of stuff we should have seen more of. Except they rather obviously lost all track of continuity, with Ashley's baby, born early in season one, still being an infant even though that was nearly two years ago. Apparently, they also forgot her baby was a girl, but I think the way the baby is shown here is ambiguous. She's not in girly clothes, but she does seem to be in generic baby clothes. And I'm still not sure what the deal with Aurora's baby is. She was already pregnant when the Storybrookers arrived and so should have been about four months ahead of Snow, since they were gone a year and Snowflake came a week or so after they got back, so Snow must have become pregnant three months after they returned. But then Aurora was turned into a flying monkey about a month into Snow's pregnancy. Did that freeze the pregnancy? If so, she should still be pregnant. If not, she should have had the baby while a flying monkey back in the Enchanted Forest and it should be four months older than Snowflake, but they looked like they were the same age.

And we're still dealing with the fact that Snowflake is only about a week old, not yet two weeks old. Isn't that a bit early for play dates, Mommy and Me and getting a babysitter?

[Camera One]

12 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Except they rather obviously lost all track of continuity

Dear fan,

We try not to use that word.  It squashes creativity and constrains us to thinking inside the Hat Box.

And remember, filling in the blanks - fun!

Sincerely,

A&E

Edited February 11, 2019 by Camera One

[tennisgurl]

Now we head to our Happy Sepia Tone Flashbacks! You can tell the first scene is a happy time flashback because everyone is happy and frolicking, and the lighting is super bright and everything is so great, you know things are gonna go to absolute hell later on. 

I do like the backstory of Ingrid and think that it does a decent job at explaining why she believes that people with magic will always be hated and feared by those who dont, the three actresses playing the sisters had nice chemistry, and adding the jerkass Duke from the movie into the backstory was a nice touch, it felt very natural. Although, Anna and Elsa's mom did suck, didnt she? She sucked her sister in a jar and kept her there for a tragic mistake, and then locked her daughter up the way her sister locked herself up, which lead to all of these problems in the first place. If Ingrid had learned to control her powers and been a real part of the world, maybe none of that would have happened? And I really love Elizabeth Mitchell in this role, both as the sweet younger Ingrid, and older Ingrid in full on villain mode. She has this calm way about her that makes her a very intense presence, in how non intense she seems to be. She has a lot going on internally, you can see it in her eyes. 

But as much as I enjoy the Snow Queen in this episode, both in Storybrook and in her flashbacks, this episode has a whole lot of big problems. Starting with, will they ever just explain how magic is seen in this freaking universe?! Why is it that in worlds where magic is known to be real (especially in the EF which is freaking called the Enchanted Forrest!) and not always evil, do people go all "ahhh, kill it with fire!" instantly? Its fine if thats what their society is like, but if it is, why not explain why it is? Do the writers just assume thats how it would be? Why is it that the future queen having magic is a bad thing, and not totally awesome? She could use her powers to help their country in so many ways, why does everyone act like this is such a bad thing? I swear, its like the writers saw other, better stories where supernaturally powered people are persecuted by muggles, and they decided to do that, but missed all the parts where they explained why exactly that was and what lead to these thoughts. The world building is just so shabby, that its not only disappointing and annoying, it actually creates plot holes. 

Aurora and the "devil box" was funny, and it was nice to see her and Ashley again, and the whole mommy and me class was a lot of fun and more of what I want to see on this show, even if the whole mommy and me class was all set up to create more Emma angst. This is a really bad episode for Snow, she just comes off as awful for most of the episode. First her holding baby Neal to her and looking all pissed at Emma when she warmed the bottle, then her screaming at her when she accidentally hit Charming with a pole in a magic freak out, its all so shitty of her, and its all so dramatic. Is having magic so very rare in this world? Are Regina and Rumple really the only magic people around who could help Emma and train her? I know that Ingrid was just trying to get under Emma's skin, but it really does come off at times like Emma is first a Savior, and then a person, and her magic is all well and good when its saving everyone, but if she ever messes up? Oh heavens, gather your torches and pitchforks! Its so weird how jumpy people are about magic here, and act like because Emma made one little mistake, she is now a walking WMD and everyone has to flinch from her. People in this show are too forgiving of huge horrible things, and too shitty about really tiny mistakes, or things beyond their control.

"We looked at her in fear." yeah, I think that was more you, Snow. 

Robin...ugggggg. Just when I start warming to him with his nice scene with Will, I remember how this actually goes in this story. He just goes on and on about his stupid ass code and blah blah honor like some off brand Klingon, and then he totally ignores it anyway when it suites him. Yeah, he saw that story of how his wife suffered for her love for him and how she made me a better person, and thought "she would want me to bone the evil dictator who had her imprisoned and killed in another timeline while she is dying in a coma". What an asshole, Marian can do better. I just do not care about the supposed star crossed love between him and Regina. Not only does it come across as creepy with the crypt adultery and the whole fact that he is pining after the woman who killed his wife, but I just dont buy their relationship as so epic and amazing and once in a lifetime. They've only known each other for a few weeks, as far as they remember! Even when they were together in the EF, they mainly just bitched at each other, and in the current time, they just starred at each other all gooey eyed. I never saw a huge connection beyond a stupid tattoo and a soul mate bond that no one else on the planet has with anyone else. But I guess if anyone gets stuff that no one else in the world gets, its Regina!

My favorite little moment was Belle shoving Hook away from the mirror in the tower. I like her so much more when she isnt near Rumple.

[legaleagle53]

20 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

But then Aurora was turned into a flying monkey about a month into Snow's pregnancy. Did that freeze the pregnancy? If so, she should still be pregnant. If not, she should have had the baby while a flying monkey back in the Enchanted Forest and it should be four months older than Snowflake, but they looked like they were the same age.

According to Adam and Eddie, the pregnancy was "on hold" during the time that Aurora was a flying monkey, so, as Grumpy later said, they dodged a bullet by not having to change a flying monkey's diapers.

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, legaleagle53 said:

According to Adam and Eddie, the pregnancy was "on hold" during the time that Aurora was a flying monkey, so, as Grumpy later said, they dodged a bullet by not having to change a flying monkey's diapers.

If the pregnancy was on hold, then she should still be pregnant, not have a newborn. She should have had at least three months to go once she became human again. I guess it could have caught up rapidly, but then she probably shouldn't have been at Snowflake's "coronation" because she'd either have been giving birth or had just given birth after suddenly becoming nine months pregnant after becoming human again. I suspect the male writers didn't talk to their wives about pregnancy or childbirth when writing anything to do with birth or the aftermath.

[Camera One]

Math is not the strong suit of these Writers.  Nor literature.  Nor history.  Nor biology.  

[KAOS Agent]

I love how Snow is suddenly completely over her fear of letting someone else watch her baby. Her first was torn from her arms due to the curse and the second taken to be used in a spell, but the kid's less than a week old and her fear has been deemed unreasonable by a cricket and after a date night, she's planning to have Emma babysit as well. Of course, Emma has evil magic, so no baby for her. Realistically though, that's some massive psychological trauma to get over. Not to mention she missed everything with Emma. She'd be even more obsessed with not wanting to not miss a single thing with Snowflake. First time parents (which Snow called herself) are very unlikely to leave their newborns so young especially when there is yet another evil magical threat wandering about.

The whole Mommy and Me thing, while amusing, was a joke. Babies Snowflake's age can't even see properly. He's not going to be socializing with other babies and since he can't even begin to hold his head up, he wouldn't be able to interact at all with Ashley's activities. There is no benefit to him, only risk. Also, germs. So many germs with all those parents and babies in an enclosed space like that. Just say no. I get that it's kind of nitpicky, but it takes me out of the show when things are so blatantly off in terms of time passing in story. 

[KingOfHearts]

21 hours ago, Camera One said:

Math is not the strong suit of these Writers.  Nor literature.  Nor history.  Nor biology.  

Nor writing in any form or capacity. 

Edited February 12, 2019 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

14 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

I love how Snow is suddenly completely over her fear of letting someone else watch her baby. Her first was torn from her arms due to the curse and the second taken to be used in a spell, but the kid's less than a week old and her fear has been deemed unreasonable by a cricket and after a date night, she's planning to have Emma babysit as well.

That made me wonder.  How many days has passed since the first episode of this season?  How long has it been since she couldn't bear to let Belle babysit a few episodes ago?

Not to mention... why isn't Snow spending all her time (or at least every spare minute) at the Mayor's office?  Isn't she doing every mundane job from processing business licenses to coordinating garbage pick-up in addition to babysitting?  

If you look at each arc character-by-character, the lack of thought and planning really stick out.  

[Shanna Marie]

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

How many days has passed since the first episode of this season? 

It's less than two weeks.

Spoiler

We'll find out in a few episodes, which seem to be several days after this, that at that time it's been two weeks since Elsa came out of the urn.

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

If you look at each arc character-by-character, the lack of thought and planning really stick out.  

It's enough to give you whiplash. Snow's the mayor, having to deal with every little crisis, but she also has time for Mommy and Me classes with her week-old infant. She can't bear to leave her week-old infant, but now she needs a babysitter. It all depends on what the plot needs at any given moment.

[Camera One]

A lot of the conflict was pulled out of thin air.  Emma was making the milk in the bottle boil before she had that hard-hitting conversation with Ingrid at the police station, but her magic never did that in Season 3 even when she was feeling emotional, did it?  We never really saw Snowing have a problem with Emma having magic in Season 3.

So Ingrid really lucked out when she later asked Emma if her family had ever looked at her in fear because of her magic.  How convenient, it happened within the last hour!  Then, Snow's words and actions coincided with exactly what Ingrid wanted. 

What was Ingrid hoping would happen, anyway?   Emma ran off because she was afraid she was going to hurt other people.  She wouldn't go running to Ingrid just because Ingrid would understand what it's like to be different.  

Edited February 13, 2019 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

10 minutes ago, Camera One said:

What was Ingrid hoping would happen, anyway?

You know, her plan really makes no sense. If what she wanted was her magical sisters to love her, she went about it all wrong. It was yet another case of the "I'll do horrible things to you so you'll be forced to side with me" scheme they love on this show, and yet again it made no sense because she revealed that she was the one doing the horrible things to them. Why would they run to her for help or consolation when she was the one doing awful stuff? The "look how everyone turns against you" scheme only works if it's not obvious that you're the one doing the frame job.

If what Ingrid wanted was for Elsa and Emma to turn to her, she should have stayed in the ice cream shop and not revealed herself as the Snow Queen, not frozen Marian, not nearly killed Hook. Leave the ice walls and random bits of ice around town to frame Elsa so the town will turn against her, but then be the sympathetic townsperson who's on her side and stands up for her against everyone else. Maybe give Emma a whammy (in a free sympathy ice cream cone) that makes her magic go haywire, and then be a sympathetic ear while everyone else is against her. Only then reveal herself as the Snow Queen, who's also a victim of magic hatred.

And it would have helped if they had made up their mind what people think about magic. You can't have people being totally okay with it until you want people to be afraid and hate it.