S05.E03: Four Walls And A Roof

[halgia]

Rick and the group find themselves pitted against some nasty people.

[halgia]

We're trying something new this week: this is the "book talk" thread, where you can (and should!) talk about anything related to the comics without spoiler tags. There's another thread for general, non-comic-related discussion stuff about this episode, and a general comic talk thread if you'd prefer that. Since this is a new thing we're trying, if you have opinions about the split one way or another feel free to talk about them here.

[halgia]

(Sorry that this was locked - my bad! I messed up the time-unlock feature.)

[ParadoxLost]

So comic book readers....  I came into this hearing speculation that Rick would tear the Hunters apart with his bare hands.  Did they tone it down from the comic books?

[raven]

Yes, it was toned down.  I must be desensitized because on TTD they're talking about how brutal it was but I expected more. I wanted Gareth to suffer more. 

 

I don't remember if it was bare hands in the comics but it seemed more graphic, which I guess is to be expected.

[peach]

He chopped him up pretty thoroughly with the machete with red handle, as he promised him at the trough.

[melanie]

I like this idea (of having two threads).  I thought that Bob gave a great "Tainted Meat" portrayal, very similar to the way I envisioned Dale delivering those lines in the comics.  That was such a memorable moment from the comics.  What did you all think?  

[mandolin]

I thought Bob did a good job with the material as well. TVDale couldn't have pulled that off as well, I don't think.

 

I don't know that the tv slaughter was toned down, but the comics had more talk about "how could we do that? It was awful...horrible..."etc. type talk. In the books, they did do it at the hunters' camp, where there were picnic tables, etc. They do talk about killing them piece by piece and making each one watch the others.

 

ETA: I remember in the books too (I just reread this part the other day), that Andrea is hiding in the woods and shoots off one of the hunter's fingers, ala Gareth's fingers.

Edited October 27, 2014 by mandolin

[Nutjob]

I was dubious about the "tainted meat" scene being too out of character for Bob, but I thought Lawrence Gilliard pulled it off brilliantly. I also recall them being a lot more brutal, bare hands about killing the Hunters in the comics. Personally, I'm OK with a "toned down" version for t.v., because it was still incredibly brutal. They treated them just like they might treat a group of walkers, and I kind of dug that.

[Nashville]

Damn Tyrese! You had one job, to kill that annoying hat termite but you screwed it up!

That's ok.

His sister took care of him.

YOU know - the other chick with a blade.

[mandolin]

In case you all haven't seen this:

http://www.thewalkingdead.com/episode-503-panel-to-screen-comparison/

[shanndee]

I like the idea of a book and non book thread for each episode. My husband has just purchased the hard cover graphic novels, so I look forward to being able to post in both threads soon!

[henripootel]

Oops - wrong thread.

Edited October 27, 2014 by henripootel

[Little Dove]

So glad that this option has been created (an episode thread for comic book readers)! Maybe I'll actually post- I find most of the things I'd like to contribute are usually comparing comic to show- and this way no worries of a possible spoiler to a non comic reader.

I'm in complete agreeable about the actor who plays Bob, and his laughing with the memorable tainted meat comment - he was great! He did that line justice. I was especially glad to hear it because I thought we wouldn't get it.

I don't know why but I assumed Bob was bit on the leg and kept wondering why in the last episode he didn't cry in the forest and just tell someone- I thought it was all a plot point... Anyone who read the comics knew he got bit even though they didn't see it, but because of Dale- I assumed he'd pull threw. In the comics do they actually eat the infected leg? I'm assuming so... But that seems so moronic. Who doesn't look at meat before they cook it? At least Bob's tainted meat makes sense. Why would they check over his whole body if he seemed fine.

I was thinking in the last episode that a Tara/Glenn/Maggie thing could be being set up like Carol/Rick/Lori in the comics. This episode made me think something similar would happen. Maybe a different spin, like Tara just wanting Maggie or something. Not that it's needed. Not that we need every aspect from the comics.

Did anyone think that Gareth might name Neagan?

[Pete Martell]

I really hope they won't go that route with Glenn/Maggie/Tara. A lesbian killing herself because she can't have a straight woman is heinous enough to where Vito Russo himself would likely rise from the grave to join the walker herd. 

 

I don't see Tara as being in the same mental place as Carol was and I think if they do this type of story they'll have a huge, deserved backlash.

[mandolin]

I hope it's while before Negan. That was a huge, long arc, and I'm just not ready for it. I mean, it just ended in the comics finally...i'm not ready to do it all again!

[editorgrrl]

From the Entertainment Weekly recap:

Yes, it was the old double-cross: The Grimes Gang only wanted the cannibals to think they were attacking their base.

 

(ASIDE: Readers of the comic will recognize what a delicate double-twist this was. In the comic book, Rick actually does lead his fellow survivors on a successful surprise attack. So, if you were a comic book reader, you were first surprised that the cannibals attacked the church, and then you were re-unsurprised to discover this was part of Rick's plan. Further evidence that the Walking Dead writers are getting more confident in the whole narrative-remixing thing as the show goes on. END OF ASIDE.)

[mandolin]

I'm hoping the show will give Abraham his comic backstory. I think it will definitely aid the TV version's development.

[Little Dove]

On the Tara/Glenn/Maggie thing... Their own spin on it. Completely true that Tara is in a different place it was just a thought.

Regarding Negan and whether it was him and company that terrorized the Termites is a nice touch (if it turns out to be true later). Of course I realize we've got a while till him! And I definitely wouldn't wanna skip Douglas just to get to a bigger bad.

Even though I love the comics, I love the addition of Sasha and loved Bob. I came to love Bob, especially the optimism. I wish he hadn't died, but I liked it that he went out still believing in good people, and reminding Rick about good people.

[gischeleman]

Great observations, love that the show is closing in on the comic a little more.

One other thing. I feel like they might be setting up Sasha to take over the Andrea comics role. She's badass and pretty good with a gun

[mandolin]

Interesting idea re: Sasha as Andrea. I've wondered if Michonne would take her place as Rick's partner and resident badass.

[Pete Martell]

I feel like they take Andrea's stories and hand them off to various women. There was a Hollywood Reporter article asking if Carol was the new Andrea. Then Sasha had some of Andrea's material here.

 

Sasha and Rick probably had more interaction in this past episode than they've had in two seasons, but I'm not sure whether this was a high water mark.

 

I just hope they realize strong female characters and diverse female characters help the show. I feel like in the first few seasons they thought they only needed one (Andrea), and they put so much on Andrea that it crushed her.

[mandolin]

For me, Laurie Holden's acting crushed Andrea from the first time she spoke. :-\  With that in mind, I'm glad Andrea and Dale didn't have the relationship they did in the comics. Surely someone will fill her shoes on the show with Rick, right? I mean, she's still around in the comics. I do like tv Michonne much better than comic, and I'd be okay if it were her (in an understated way).

[Pete Martell]

I'm also glad the show never went there with Andrea/Dale. I've sometimes wondered if they ever had any plans along those lines, because I just never felt like the actors played it that way (Jeff DeMunn did play Dale as having a certain fondness for Andrea, but that was about it).

 

I've always had my doubts that the show would ever put their central hero in an interracial relationship, if they'd take the risk, even though it shouldn't be a risk in 2014. I'm not holding my breath.

[leisawoo]

Is it just me or are the walkers kinda just a HUGE annoyance now? I guess other survivors are the really scary ones now. They are so nonchalant when they're stabbing the walkers. Sometimes, they don't even rush to kill 'em. I guess that's good but it could backfire later if they become immune to the terror that you should feel, lol.

[Little Dove]

I agree, leisawoo, they really do need to keep some fear for the walkers! People obviously seem like the real threat because they're all so different whereas you can do a headshot with zombies you're good.

[mandolin]

After the fall of the prison in the comic, didn't they go back to Hershel's house? Or some of them did and that's where they met Abraham. I kind of wish they would revisit an old set like that.

[Little Dove]

I don't think in the comics Hershel's farm got overrun the way it did before the prison. In fact, not everyone left, so it made sense in the comics for them to go back to a place still considered safe. I think after all the flack they got for staying so long at the farm the writers wouldn't take them back there. As well as there'd be no reason to go back there because it was overrun, unless there's a plot point of them needing something that's there. But to me, it would just feel backwards, I don't want them to go to a place we've already seen the characters be.

Regardless of what we think of Eugene... I'm glad the characters still have hope. I think that's the most important thing in this world. I liked Eugenes usefulness in the comics. I kinda don't blame him for lying at all, and I do hope we see what he did in the comics.

[mandolin]

I definitely would love for Eugene to turn out like his comic counterpart. He's doing good stuff now! I do hope the tv version can lose the mullet. It wasn't so pronounced in the comics, as I recall. I don't remember much of his backstory. I hope we get Abe's. I also don't remember Rosita having much, if any.

 

I think I'm just nostalgic for the old days maybe, hence remembering the return to the farm.

[peach]

I've always had my doubts that the show would ever put their central hero in an interracial relationship, if they'd take the risk, even though it shouldn't be a risk in 2014. I'm not holding my breath.

Interesting, since this show seems to like risks.  I wonder.  Karen and Tyrese were an interracial couple, and it wasn't even acknowledged, it just was.  I would only dislike that as a storyline if I thought they were doing it just to make some kind of point.   But IMO, Rick and Michonne are the only ones who have the true spark of natural chemistry on that show.   Just on paper, I don't know if I'd write those two characters together as a couple (not because of race, just their characterization), but on screen they have something in just a short scene or single glance that shouldn't be wasted.  And Michonne is already Carl's mom/guide on the warrior's way. I think it would be great for these two people to be a pair, who never would have found or even known each other pre-ZA.  His entire marriage was difficult with Lori, maybe Michonne is is his unlikely soulmate.

In TV Land, though, they would be more likely to keep each character separated so they can have various storylines with random redshirts.

Is it just me or are the walkers kinda just a HUGE annoyance now? I guess other survivors are the really scary ones now. They are so nonchalant when they're stabbing the walkers. Sometimes, they don't even rush to kill 'em. I guess that's good but it could backfire later if they become immune to the terror that you should feel, lol.

 

Well, Bob did just die from one, because they were nonchalant enough to go swimming with zombies.  Instead of just killing them from above and fishing out the cans.  That whole scene was so B movie stupid and not worth Bob getting killed.  But maybe they learned their lesson.

Edited October 31, 2014 by peach

[ParadoxLost]

I agree, leisawoo, they really do need to keep some fear for the walkers! People obviously seem like the real threat because they're all so different whereas you can do a headshot with zombies you're good.

 

Maybe this is what you were getting that but its a very realistic reaction for just that reason.  Eventually you get used to zombies because they become a common sight and there are know ways to deal with them.  They would need to evolve in some way to continue being the scariest thing out there which is why the unpredictable humans are the most dangerous and feared element now, you can't be sure how to separate the good from bad or just how evil the bad are.