S02.E06: The Ecstasy and the Agony

[Cranberry]

Liam makes a relationship blunder; Shane and Amy invite Lauren to an underground dance party.

 

Mid-season trailer:

 

 

Sneak peek of the dance party:

 

 

And a Karma/Liam sneak peek, but nobody cares about that.

 

 

 

[CaliforniaLove]

Of course Liam is going to have trouble saying the word "girlfriend"...it has 2 syllables AND 2 "r"s.

[Valny]

I loved Ecstasy!Lauen.  Wish I could remember all the things that she was ranting in the closet. Second female President?  ha!

"you gave me what?!!"  :)  I always hate that thing you see on tv/movies where obviously a character can stop another one from doing something that's bad, but they just stand there let them do it. As in Shane and Amy not stopping Lauren from taking the pill. gah! I know,we had to have Lauren take Ecstasy but...but...gah! It's just a tv/movie nitpick of mine.

 

Still don't know what Theo was going to say before Lauren cut him off.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Valny

[Cranberry]

Nice to see Reagan again. Lauren on Ecstasy was the high point of this episode, though! I loved that, "How long does this last? Am I a drug addict now? What if I get arrested and they take away all my pageant crowns and I'll never become the second female President?"

 

And, "What is happening to my jaw? I can't stop grinding. Oh my God I'm gonna develop a manly jaw."

 

Liam and Karma? Snore.

[CaliforniaLove]

Not to cheer for recreational drug use, but ok...yay ecstasy Lauren!

Hi filler episode. Thanks for the lukewarm milk version of an episodic comedy. See you next week when it appears shit might actually happen.

[mjgchick]

Holy crap Liam and Karma are boring. Mean while I'll sit at a table for one on liking Leo/Theo and Lauren.

 

Mean while Rita Volk has this chemistry magnet to with everyone she's paired with.

Edited October 29, 2014 by mjgchick

[ybrik]

Okay that even felt kind of flat. There were some good moments but these last couple of eps have felt like fillers. They seem to be building up for big reveal. These episodes have had the characters move in directions that are necessary but it just feels forced. I haven't hated the eps but there are parts dragging.

 

Mainly the Karma/Liam relationship. The drama in this episode was just so forced and took too long to resolve. Also this episode really seem to highlight that their is really no real chemistry between them. I will say the ep did seem to start putting some cracks in Karma's image of Liam.

 

Lauren on X was perfect.

 

Not sure what to think of Reagan yet as she was barely on. Glad Karma seemed happy for Amy. We'll have to see how long that last.

 

 

 

 

[JaM]

They got episode name right :)  Liam+Karma was a true agony.. shame we didn't got Reagan+Amy scenes a bit longer.. but Lauren+Ecstasy, probably the most funniest moment in this show so far...

[Gulftastic]

Glad that I wasn't alone in just wishing for the Karma/Liam scenes to be over so we couild get back to the party. Lauren on E was fantastic.

[Latverian Diplomat]

Of course Liam is going to have trouble saying the word "girlfriend"...it has 2 syllables AND 2 "r"s.

OK, that was a hokey bit of business with not being able to say the word, but also Gregg Sulkin's delivery, not only didn't sell it, but actually triggered a product recall.

 

I  thought art blogger chick was going to "tempt" Liam for a second there. Instead she shredded him. Nice.  The intrusion into the performance piece was poorly motivated (would Liam really talk to anyone but Shane about his speech impediment?) but it ended well.

 

I thought we might get someone using X without "punishment", but we didn't. In consolation, the downsides were more about Lauren's reaction (in character) than say, jumping out a window due to reefer madness or something.

 

That said, letting guy-whom-Lauren-barely-knows be the one to take her home instead of one of the people she came with (so they can pursue their own romances) bugged me. I know Theo is supposed to be saintly, but just on principle that's not sufficiently protective of a woman under the influence, IMHO.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Latverian Diplomat

[Misty79]

So I, um, actually enjoyed this episode. Even some of the Liam and Karma scenes, which was novel. For some reason the whole guilt thing actually rang true to me at last, so I found Liam more bearable than usual. Karma I continue to hate, she comes across as too needy and clingy with all of her significant others. 

 

Lauren is such a brilliant character, I hope they give her more and more to do and don't just make her about Theo.

 

I loved it when Amy finally lost patience with Karma's calls and told her she was at a "super cool underground dance party". It was the "screw you bitch, I've got a life" moment that I've been waiting to see for a while. 

[cteaglefan]

My DVR cut off (Fist to the sky!) at the end. Wat did theo tell lauren? Anything, nothing?

 

Karma/Liam are so annoying. That is true annoying high school stuff there.

[JaM]

Lauren stopped him before he could explain, it was actually quite funny as she was still high..

[galax-arena]

Everything about the art show and Liam/Karma was boring. But I did like the dance/rave stuff. Lauren was hilarious, and Reagan/Amy were cute, as little as we got to see of them. And hey, now we know Reagan’s age (19). But I’m getting the impression that Amy’s only going to date Reagan until she realizes that she’s still not over Karma. Just hope that the writers don't turn Reagan into an asshole when they break them up. 

 

Poor Shane, getting fed up with Duke’s sexting lol. 

 

And Theo didn't bug me, so cheers to that. 

Edited October 29, 2014 by galax-arena

[Izeinwinter]

Actually, the bit with Shane at the end there was interesting. I mean, he was watching Amy and Regan being diabetic-shock inducingly cute, gets sexed, his whole face falls, and then he texts back that he'll be right over? Erh, what? Sad that his romantic life is a bit short on the romance part. ? But not enough so to put up with Pablo's wait until marriage stichk, obviously...

 

I.. kind of fast forwarded through all the liam bits. really short episode that way, but quite engaging.  

[Nellise]

I loved Ecstasy!Lauen.  Wish I could remember all the things that she was ranting in the closet. Second female President?  ha!

"you gave me what?!!"  :)  I always hate that thing you see on tv/movies where obviously a character can stop another one from doing something that's bad, but they just stand there let them do it. As in Shane and Amy not stopping Lauren from taking the pill. gah! I know,we had to have Lauren take Ecstasy but...but...gah! It's just a tv/movie nitpick of mine.

 

I didn't have a problem with this since in the real world ecstasy isn't going to kill you or send you to the hospital for days (sigh Finding Carter) so their reaction of "eh whatever" seemed appropriate. And Amy didn't want it anyway so it kept Shane from pressuring her to take it.

 

I wish Lauren had recognized she was having fun and went with it, but at least it was in character for her to freak about it.

 

Can we just cut Liam and Karma out of the show? They can go live their happy lives off somewhere else and we can have fun watching everybody else.

[JaM]

No worries, their perfect life will go downhill very fast..

[mjgchick]

The eye rolls Amy were giving the camera as she was talking to Karma was everything. That being said this show really is about two best friends because even though the show had way to much Karma/Liam you know the real reason why they had Liam have this angst about not being able to commit was really about Amy needing to tell Karma that she isn't comfortable talking about Liam so much.

[Izeinwinter]

Ecstasy had the greatest public service warning ever on danish television back a few years. First we see this grungy teenage dude who is clearly not handling his liquor well at all, and follow him zombie his way around the dance club, dancing really badly. Then a total hottie just walks up to him and starts macking on him. Cut to black:

Let me see if I can translate this right...

"Ecstasy: Will convince you the local troll is in fact prince charming". 

This is the greatest because it's telling no lies whatsoever, and a warning teens might  give two shits about. 

[wayne67]

Actually, the bit with Shane at the end there was interesting. I mean, he was watching Amy and Regan being diabetic-shock inducingly cute, gets sexed, his whole face falls, and then he texts back that he'll be right over? Erh, what? Sad that his romantic life is a bit short on the romance part. ? But not enough so to put up with Pablo's wait until marriage stichk, obviously...

 

Personally that rang very true. Shane sees everyone else pursuing romance and enjoying all these sweet bonding moments and he's not allowed to tell anyone about his current guy he's seeing even if it's all about sex at the moment. (It's not like he has any gay male friends to show off those pics too, which is half the fun of getting sexted).

 

Pablo was a poor prospect for Shane because A) he wasn't putting out and B) He over used that whole don't feed the bad wolf and as a result was a bore on multiple levels.

 

While people want to be better for their significant others being nagged into it with quasi mystical clap trap gets old fast... Shane is a teenager and enjoys getting up to mischief with hot guys, the bad wolf is entertaining .

 

On other news Lauren was hilarious on E

 

Bad news Liam and Karma are dull. The artists seeing too much into everything reminded me of literature classes where teachers were obsessed about the symbolism of EVERYTHING and it's like... um the director didn't use birds as an expression of freedom he used them because his mom liked birds... at least that's what the DVD commentary says.

[wayne67]

I want Shane to find someone who gets him. Pablo didn't really get him and seemed like a bore to be with I didn't quite get why Lauren was even friends with him or what Shane saw in him. And as for this wrestler guy, I want Shane to find someone who isn't hiding in a closet. Because I don't get why he can't. And I love Shane; I would watch a whole show of Lauren Amy and Shane.

 

I'm guessing Pablo was Shane's first attempt at trying a relationship with someone around his own age instead of college boys. Since Shane's entire sexual/dating history was summed up by Liam in a single sentence who knows why those college boys never led anywhere. Pablo was reasonably attractive (presumably to Shane), sweet and out which is probably a huge thing for Shane dating wise. As for why that didn't work out ... well Pablo turned out to be more dull than interesting and being good didn't appeal so much to Shane after the novelty of being told to feed his good wolf wore off.

 

As for why Lauren was friends with him I just assumed it was one of those proximity friendships, they were in the same place for an extended period of time and bonded over their competitive dancing and now... they've drifted apart due to Pablo being replaced by someone close by and less preachy. Shane helped her with blackmailing an ex with dildos. Pablo doesn't seem the type to be that helpful.

 

I've realized that Karma and Liam while tolerable seperately (I know I still like Liam by himself or with Shane)  in small doses bring out each other's worst qualities together. While together they are like a black hole of dull self absorbed blah dragging down their friends with their whiny oh noes my first date with this person I barely know isn't going great. I'm voting they jettison Karma and Liam altogether and just focus on the much more interesting Amy and friends show. Lauren can be the grounded straight man of their group, Amy can be the wacky high strung one that incites chaos and Shane can make witty comments while getting it on with whichever boy of the week he's dating.

[Cranberry]

I'd watch that!

 

I think Karma could be good if we could just learn more about her. I want to meet her saintly brother. I want to see more scenes with her family and understand why she's such an attention-seeker. I want her to get something to do besides obsess over a boy.

[mjgchick]

I'd love to see more about why Karma feels the need to be an attention seeker. The show teased it last season when her parents even liked Liam. It also go into later on in the season where she'll start feeling like Amy is spending more time with Reagan. I wish we saw that with her feeling jealous about Amy being close with Shane or even Lauren as well.

[ybrik]

Yeah no I wouldn't watch that. Shane is tolerable in small dosages and Lauren is fine in her role. They work as they are written now but in a larger role it would be overkill. Also the dynamic between Karma and Amy isn't one that can be replaced by either Lauren or Shane. Also as mentioned above I would like to see more of Karma sans Liam obsession.

 

I will say that Lauren dancing with a pacifier in her mouth will never not be entertaining.

 

I think Shane isn't going to be able to handle dating a person in the closet. His look at the end plus his constantly bringing up Liam/Amy's hookup tell me he really can't keep a secret. So I think sooner or later he is going to out Duke or start spilling other people's secrets.

[mjgchick]

I don't mean they have to have a bigger role. I just mean in terms of Karma noticing that Amy has more people in her life.

I like the soft spots Lauren and Amy has for each other.

[ybrik]

Sorry mjgchick I hadn't seen your post when I did mine. I was referring to the 2 prior to you that were saying the shiw should just be Amy, Lauren, and Shane.

I agree it would be good to see Karma have to deal with Amy getting closer to other people as friends or more. I often post that Karma has this ideal picture of how she wants her life with the perfect bf on one side and the trusty bff on the other but she never takes into account that while she is trying to do this Amy isn't just going to stay there waiting for her. It will be interesting to see how Karma reacts to Reagan because it's easy to be happy in theory while talking over the phone. It is another to be happy when it is right in front of you. And I don't just being jealous romantically, which it still could be, but jealous that she is losing her place in her best friends life.

I think this ep shows a major flaw for the season: the show is putting too much effort into building up to the secret reveal instead of the aftermath. Why should people invest in Liam/Karma when we know it is going to crash as soon as the secret comes out? (Even if they had great chemistry) The secret should have come out earlier and the majority of the season should have been dealing with the fallout.

[Misty79]

Honestly it would be so refreshing if they had revealed the "secret" mid-way through the season and Karma had shrugged it off and acknowledged that her actions led to an unlikely and very out of character union. In real life that's probably how I'd react if I was Karma. Yes really. I'd be a bit pissed but it wouldn't take long to get over. Especially with Liam, who wasn't even Karma's boyfriend at the time. It's more of an epic betrayal by Amy but there were circumstances...I agree that having it hanging over everything (and you just know Karma is going to overreact) kind of takes the enjoyment out of the main three's relationships. 

 

Also ITA with the poster up thread that said we need to have more of Karma interacting with her family and doing stuff on her own so that we can understand where her insecurity and attention-seeking comes from. Even Liam has got better backstory at this point. 

 

But really I just wish the show was about Lauren and Amy. 

[JaM]

I share your view. Karma Liam story is overused, they should concentrate more on a followup instead of the secret being kept..

 

Anyway, with second part being planned for spring, i think it would be really cool idea if they just reversed the roles, and instead of Amy crushing on Karma who wants to be with Liam, we could get Karma crushing on Amy who wants to be with Reagan.. Can you imagine if they just made same posters but reversed and Reagan taking Liam's place?

Edited October 30, 2014 by JaM

[wayne67]

As of this episode all the relationships are iffy

 

Amy likes Karma because life long friend and close bond (that we hear about but never really see on screen) + unexpected chemistry of first kiss = Amy's belief that she's a Karma sexual

 

Karma likes Liam because he's hot and popular and so far that's about as much depth as her interest in him is (she doesn't care to know his friends, family or anything about him)

 

Liam liked Karma because he thought she was a lesbian (which is all manner of stupid and douchey and shallow) and after discovering she wasn't got hurt and angry and slept with a maybe lesbian and is still interested in Karma for reasons I can't even understand (the sex was good ?)

 

Shane may like MMA Fighter whose name I don't remember but he's in the closet and Shane seems locked in the booty call category at the moment and while that can be fun in the short term can be depressing in the long run which may explain Shane's expression at the end... He's getting the sex but he's still single and lonely while all his friends have someone that's a prospect whereas MMA guy won't be seen in public with him because he's closeted.

 

Lauren likes Theo because... he's tall and good looking ?

 

Theo is unknown, he may care about Lauren to some degree due to his concern about her being drugged. Why Shane let a semi coherent Lauren be carried off by a guy he barely knows and doesn't like ... well Shane is amusing but he's kind of a haphazard friend with revealing secrets and his poor choices.

 

Regan likes Amy because she's cute and young and naive which... may be a worry later depending on how it turns out.

 

And while I was the one proposing that Liam and Karma be jettisoned it's more because their story is DULL while everyone else minus Theo sizzles story line wise. If Liam and Karma did anything interesting I might reconsider.

Edited October 31, 2014 by wayne67

[possibilities]

I honestly can't tell if Karma and Liam are supposed to be boring, and the show is doing it on purpose, or if the show thinks they are the cutest thing ever and I just think they're stupid and boring because that's how I personally see it.

 

I get that we're supposed to think the secret casts a shadow and makes things tense, but I have always thought the two of them were stupid and boring even before that. There was always a secret, just a different one. And they never struck me as anything but the most stupid and boring pair of stupid and boring teens ever. I mean, I watch Degrassi, I've seen plenty of generic teen couples on TV, and quite a few of them seem exactly like Karma and Liam in exactly this exact boring way.

 

So, does this show just attract viewers who think K&L are boring, or is the show deliberately mocking them and making them boring because it agrees? That's the question I can't answer, but I kind of think we're supposed to love them and feel like the secret is messing everything up, and not hate them with or without the secret.

 

I mean, all the promotion talked about how this first part of the season was going to make us love Karma, and I like her less than I did in season 1 because at least then I could see she and Amy had a real friendship. Now all I see is some dimwit boy-crazy teen moving away from her friendship and having no personality other than her boy obsession.

 

I like the idea of having the show be about Amy and Lauren. they are more interesting, no matter how you slice it.

 

I also agree with the idea of not making the big Amy-Liam sex reveal into such a big deal. Don't drag it out! Have the secret exposed, deal with the fallout, and have Karma realize that the whole situation was fucked up, partly or largely because of her own bullshit....and move on. Treating it like the worst betrayal ever, to me is taking all of their relationships too seriously and making more of the monogamy imperative than I think is warranted under the circumstances. All three of them acted stupid. They should laugh it off and chalk it up to a lot of nonsense that got out of control, vow to be more real with each other in the future, and move on. End of melodrama.

Edited October 31, 2014 by possibilities

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Liam liked Karma because he thought she was a lesbian (which is all manner of stupid and douchey and shallow) and after discovering she wasn't got hurt and angry and slept with a maybe lesbian and is still interested in Karma for reasons I can't even understand (the sex was good ?)

Isn't Liam the only guy Karma has slept with? With no circle of friends to clue her in, along with her obsession with him, Liam could easily get away with putting his own satisfaction first and Karma wouldn't know if she's missing out.

[wayne67]

Isn't Liam the only guy Karma has slept with? With no circle of friends to clue her in, along with her obsession with him, Liam could easily get away with putting his own satisfaction first and Karma wouldn't know if she's missing out.

 

I have no idea. I can't even work up the energy needed to think about Karma's sex life but judging solely from previous episodes I'd think she'd get plenty of information about sex from magazines and online... She did after all do a lot of research about lesbianism and considering her obsession with Liam I'd imagine she'd find out everything she could to please and keep him for whatever reason.

 

 

I honestly can't tell if Karma and Liam are supposed to be boring, and the show is doing it on purpose, or if the show thinks they are the cutest thing ever and I just think they're stupid and boring because that's how I personally see it.

 

It feels boring to me because the whole straight couple keeping secrets from each other has been overdone in rom com's, sitcoms, soap operas and even shows about zombies... Plus individually they seem incredibly shallow superficial people and together they're just self obsessed insecure tedious people to watch.

[Cranberry]

Does anyone like/care about Karma and Liam as a couple? My first thought was no, but I tend to read about this show mostly here and on lesbian sites that skew a bit older, so I wasn't sure if there were tons of teen girls going crazy over "Kiam" elsewhere. I decided to go to Tumblr and see if anyone was talking about them there. I scrolled down pretty far in the "Kiam" tag and I saw a couple of photosets and one person saying that Amy is an asshole and Liam is great, but most of the posts were either general show posts (tagged with all of the characters/couples) or vehemently anti-Kiam posts. If the writers are trying to make Karma and Liam into a beloved couple, they're not doing a very good job.

[mjgchick]

I've never seen a more boring couple than Liam and Karma. I'm as man crazy as it gets but I'm shocked that I'm not all over Liam and Karma. If Karma and Liam had an inkling of chemistry I'd probably ship them. As it stands Karma has way more with Amy ( I don't want Karma/Amy either to be clear.) than she does Liam. I'm also shocked at how other straight fans are just not into Liam and Karma. Some are even teens as I see on tumblr. Theirs something Katie and Rita are doing that Katie and Gregg aren't.

As of right now I'm more into Amy and anyone with legs that'll make her happy. lol Mostly here for what they do with Amy and Reagan. I hope we don't get a Marissa/Alex deal with how they threw Alex under and made her crazy. If Reagan/Amy breaks up hopefully it's mutual.

Edited November 3, 2014 by mjgchick

[Cranberry]

I've noticed the overwhelming Karmy love from the straight fans, too. It's interesting that so many of them are shipping Karma with Amy rather than with Liam. I wonder if it's because Liam's so boring (and whiny!), or because Amy is the main character and the audience tends to want the main character to get whatever (or whomever) they want. Maybe it's just that Rita and Katie have better (lighter and more fun) chemistry than Katie and Gregg do, both on and off-screen. Or maybe this is not actually surprising and I previously wasn't giving people enough credit by assuming that they'd choose a straight couple over a gay one based on their own sexuality.

[JaM]

I can tell you for myself, as a straight guy, I want to see Amy and Karma end up together, and i really don't like Liam with Karma..Why? because he represents all the douches who always get the girl, no matter what..

Edited November 2, 2014 by JaM

[galax-arena]

I loathe Liam and Kiam, but I'm not shipping Amy and Karma either. In the beginning, I guess I sorta shipped the latter, but the attitude that I've seen from fandom - that Amy somehow "deserves" a chance with Karma and that Karma is a bitch (or if people are feeling kind, she's not a bitch, just dumb) for not feeling the same way - has completely turned me off. Plus... now I'm just tired of it. I'm not a fan of shows drawing out the will-they-won't-they for multiple seasons.   

 

So now my ships are the following:

 

Amy/Reagan

Karma/Not!Liam (not sure what other guys are out there for her, though)

Liam/his hand

Lauren/ecstasy

[mjgchick]

that sad part is I don't think the writers want Liam to be seen as a douche. He just happens to do douchey things that's just not funny. I don't really hate Liam because I do think he tries but good lord he's just so boring. The only time he was mildly interesting was when they made him react to Amy's craziness.

 

I don't think Amy deserves Karma because Karma is a human being and not a trophy. What Amy deserves is someone who makes her happy and so does Karma. I don't think Liam will be that guy to make her happy. Karma is not a bitch for rejecting Amy's feelings. At most she's self centered when it comes to Amy's feelings. I do think Karma would choose Amy over Liam if it was life and death if anything.

Edited November 3, 2014 by mjgchick

[Cranberry]

I don't ship anyone on this show with anyone else in particular. I would highly prefer to see Amy with a girl, but I think it would be more interesting if that girl wasn't Karma. I like Reagan so far, but we haven't seen enough of her yet for me to really judge.

[JaM]

I think you are right StarsFallen, and this can still happen when Liam is out of picture (after that secret comes out).. Linking together obvious jealousy Karma feels so far (without her realizing it), it might end up being quite interesting drama at the end.. And luckily, we will get another 10 episodes in the spring to follow on that.

[Misty79]

I don't ship anyone on this show with anyone else in particular. I would highly prefer to see Amy with a girl, but I think it would be more interesting if that girl wasn't Karma. I like Reagan so far, but we haven't seen enough of her yet for me to really judge.

 

Yeah this is how I feel too. I watch mostly just for the character of Amy, her relationship with Lauren and her mom in particular. I like her with Shane too, mostly, though they can sometimes be a little vicious together. I enjoyed Karma and Amy last season but I've hated most of their scenes this season as the "Liam sex" thing has hung over every interaction in a very anvilicious way. 

 

Karma and Liam have NO chemistry. Karma had a hundred times more chemistry with Amy in that dance scene in last season's finale than she's ever had with Liam. I think if she's going to be totally straight they need to look around for alternate love interests as it's just not there between the actors. Sometimes you just can't manufacture that. 

[Milks26]

Karma's attraction to Liam stems from the ideal of being with the hottest guy in school. Whereas, Liam wanted to bang a lesbian. I think the actors do have a little bit of chemistry - but Karma and Amy's are way off the charts.

 

Overall, this episode had filler status for me.