Rory and Jess

[Mulva]

Jess was.... and will always be .....a total douche bag. To this day I can not see how anyone liked that little shit.

Yes I know he eventually grew up and behaved as a human, but the guy was a Grade A dickwad from start to finish. He is awful!

I'd love to see Mr. I'm Smarter Than Anyone Else In This School in today's job market. The application software would automatically filter him out.

I really don't see too much long term potential between a high-school dropout and a Yale graduate.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Mulva

[amensisterfriend]

I'd love to see Mr. I'm Smarter Than Anyone Else In This School in today's job market. The application software would automatically filter him out.

 

Well, he could always hope to compensate by charming the interviewer with his warmth, humility and eagerness to work well with others ;) 

[dustylil]

If Jess was aiming for a career in the corporate world (beyond his youthful infatuation with Walmart that is), then I yes, I could see he might have problems. But that didn't seem to be his area of interest when we last saw him. Unless he was a complete and utter Luddite, there would be no reason why his writing talent and alternate business skills set couldn't work out for him in some fashion.

[blueray]

I could also see Jess getting his GED at some point. He would do well in an interview as well.

[Aloeonatable]

 

didn't intend to cast aspersions on anyone's intelligence with that comment. It's just that for me (and clearly everyone's MMV here), Jess is an overwrought character.

Sorry if I misinterpreted your comment, but I didn't find Jess anymore overwrought than Luke, Emily, Paris or many other characters on this show. 

 

 

 

I'd love to see Mr. I'm Smarter Than Anyone Else In This School in today's job market. The application software would automatically filter him out.

I really don't see too much long term potential between a high-school dropout and a Yale graduate.

Jess was an 18 year old when he made that comment. IMO his attitude had changed but I can agree that he wouldn't necessarily fit into a corporate job. Creative people sometimes don't.

 

Many couples can have a successful relationship if they are intellectual equals regardless of the education completed. 

[twoods]

Jess was an ass but he seemed as if he grew up with his publishing office. In my mind, Rory and Jess are living happily in Philly together. I don't understand the character assassination that was done just to get a possible spinoff with Jesse living in California. He tries to pressure Rory to have sex, then blows her off and doesn't graduate? Pissed me off. At least he was the one that snapped Rory to reality when she was spiraling out of control. Those scenes were some of my favorites on this show.

Edited February 24, 2015 by twoods

[KatWay]

 

I don't understand the character assassination that was done just to get a possible spinoff with Jesse living in California.

I didn't see that as character assassination, in fact that was the part of the storyline that rang truest to me. Jess clearly had major issues before he and Rory started dating, those didn't go away just because he finally bagged the girl. In fact, some of them were amplified. A boy like Jess absolutely would have expected the relationship to go fast, a girl like Rory, used to her super safe and risk free relationship with Dean, would have been hesitant.

 

Honestly, after watching a bazillion CW shows, it's kind of refreshing that on this show the woobie bad boy doesn't get redeemed by the heroine's special love and is magically the perfect boyfriend. Jess sorted himself out, Rory didn't really have anything to do with that. I suspect she couldn't have, really, she always seemed to be enabling Jess rather than challenging him to be a better person.

 

I liked that Jess got himself together and lives the hipster high life in Philadelphia. That said I see Rory's future in NY, and in my mind she met someone new there. I never thought any of Dean, Jess or Logan were her soulmate. Then again I don't think that of Luke and Lorelai either, so.

[Aloeonatable]

 

don't understand the character assassination that was done just to get a possible spinoff with Jesse living in California. He tries to pressure Rory to have sex, then blows her off and doesn't graduate?

I thought Jess's story line was true to his character. He was at a low point in his life when he and Rory were in the bedroom at Kyle's party. He was hoping to ease his pain. As for not graduating, that was also believable. Jess would have been better off doing an independent study or just taking his GED. He was not the kind of kid to fit into the traditional high school/college prep mold.

[JTlover]

Jess is terrible. He's just a rude terrible terrible person. In A Tisket A Tasket when he bids on Rory's picnic basket I want to punch both him & Rory in the face. He was clearly only doing it to be a jerk and I can't believe she actually goes to eat with him. If someone treated my boyfriend like that in high school or my now husband, I would tell them to take a flying leap. Although my now husband would have just punched him......which is exactly what he deserved.

[amensisterfriend]

Heh---I totally agree that Jess was a rude jerk, but then most of the guys on this show were rude jerks IMO----at least Jess had some actual chemistry with Rory, which is more than I can say for most of the show's other pairings! I probably also excuse Jess more than some of the other male characters because he was young and had a tough background. I can only shudder to think how I would have turned out if I'd had been raised by a drugged out Liz and her endless parade of shady men. 

 

That said, I definitely have less tolerance and affection for Jess than I used to. I always remember he and Rory as having more happy times together than they actually do...I think it's an example of me confusing canon with fanfic! 

[GreenScreenFX]

This is an honest question, not meant sarcastically at all..... Where or when was it mentioned Liz had a serious drug problem.? I seriously don't remember that at all.

[Aloeonatable]

 

This is an honest question, not meant sarcastically at all..... Where or when was it mentioned Liz had a serious drug problem.? I seriously don't remember that at all.

 

I don't know how serious her addiction to pot was, but she made reference to it several times. She also talked about her many husbands. Jess and Luke also discussed her many male companions. 

 

In A Tisket A Tasket when he bids on Rory's picnic basket I want to punch both him & Rory in the face. He was clearly only doing it to be a jerk and I can't believe she actually goes to eat with him.

Not to sound flippant, but all's fair in love and war. I think Jess really sensed Rory's interest in him and did what he could to encourage her. Rory wanted to spend time with Jess and used the lunch basket bidding as an excuse. If I were Dean, I would have broken up with her then. 

[GreenScreenFX]

So Liz smoked pot in high school at least 1 time. I guess I just don't see that as a "problem"

[dustylil]

I think Liz's issues with pot and alcohol were  greater than that.

Apparently, her wedding to TJ (marriage #4)  was the first time she was sober for such an event.

And she told Lorelai (whom she had just met)

I don't want to screw up this marriage even more than I want some pot. That's how serious I am.

 

 

[GreenScreenFX]

Yes, I remember that now...I still dont buy the drugged out mom thing.. I mean, who wasn't blitzed for their first 4 weddings?

[GreenScreenFX]

So... Liz was flighty, I don't see how a couple of pot references can make her a "drugged out mom"... This is all a manufactured TWoP thing. She was a normal mom with bad taste in men...giving Jess a free pass irks me.

[GreenScreenFX]

Jess was just a shitty kid.

[GreenScreenFX]

I have been a bridesmaid in 9 weddings. 9. Not one single trip down the isle was without a shot of Jaeger.

[dustylil]

I certainly don't now - and never did - give Jess a free pass because of Liz. I thought he was a mean and arrogant little twerp.

Edited March 1, 2015 by dustylil

[GreenScreenFX]

Regarding Liz, I remember exactly 2 references to smoking pot. Neither seemed to indicate an issue. 0 references for alcohol. Someone please tell me ..... when did I miss the junkie, alcoholic, floozy storyline?

Edited March 1, 2015 by GreenScreenFX

[KatWay]

 

Not to sound flippant, but all's fair in love and war. I think Jess really sensed Rory's interest in him and did what he could to encourage her. Rory wanted to spend time with Jess and used the lunch basket bidding as an excuse. If I were Dean, I would have broken up with her then.

I definitely agree that Dean should have broken up with her then (seriously "it's the rules" after Jess basically smugly glowered in Dean's face, how spineless can you be, Rory), but all fair and whatnot didn't excue Jess' absolutely shitty behaviour towards anyone not named Rory or Luke. He basically did what he could to antagonise Dean and to rile him up, to make him feel bad and Rory just stood there and looked the other way because it flattered her.

 

I hated the whole storyline because it made me lose all respect for Rory. She had no loyalty to the people she loved and instead chose to ignore Jess' hateful viciousness towards them.

[LeafontheWind]

Regarding Liz, I remember exactly 2 references to smoking pot. Neither seemed to indicate an issue. 0 references for alcohol. Someone please tell me ..... when did I miss the junkie, alcoholic, floozy storyline?

I know that the Internet is not 100% reliable in terms of information, but in the character description of Liz on the Gilmore Girls Wiki it says:

"Following her mother's death, Liz began to cut loose and get into trouble including smoking pot. She met Jimmy Mariano at a festival. The two married and Liz gave birth to a son Jess Mariano. Jimmy left her right after the birth of Jess and Liz began to a series of bad relationships, drug problems, had trouble keeping a job and was unsure of how to raise her son."

As someone who teaches high school (freshmen!) I can tell you that teenagers can be total jerks a lot of the time, but there is usually a reason why they act the way they do. I think Jess did have a good reason for mistrusting people because his mom had clearly let him down numerous times.

Now, do I think this excuses his terrible behavior toward people? No, absolutely not. He acted like a jerk throughout most of the series and he made some terrible choices. But I still like him as a character because he grew up and was able to leave his jerky attitude behind once he learned to appreciate how much people like Luke cared for him and did for him.

I will admit that I liked Jess and Rory together, mostly because of their chemistry and the fact that I found Dean quite dull, but what I enjoyed most about Jess on the show was his relationship with Luke.

Edited March 1, 2015 by LeafontheWind

[cheezwhiz346]

I definitely agree that Dean should have broken up with her then (seriously "it's the rules" after Jess basically smugly glowered in Dean's face, how spineless can you be, Rory), but all fair and whatnot didn't excue Jess' absolutely shitty behaviour towards anyone not named Rory or Luke. He basically did what he could to antagonise Dean and to rile him up, to make him feel bad and Rory just stood there and looked the other way because it flattered her.

 

I hated the whole storyline because it made me lose all respect for Rory. She had no loyalty to the people she loved and instead chose to ignore Jess' hateful viciousness towards them.

This is exactly why it's so hard for me to rewatch the Jess storyline from season 2/early season 3. Rory has feelings for Jess and therefore justifies everything he does and the way he acts to the people closest to her. It's not even Jess's behavior itself that bothers me so much; it's Rory's tacit acceptance of it as she watches other people that she cares about be hurt by it. Now, I agree that Dean should have confronted Rory about her feelings for Jess a hell of a lot earlier than he actually did, and I definitely think he shouldn't have gone to Lorelai about it so the two of them could try and steer Rory away from Jess, but Rory wanted to have her cake and eat it too and pretend she was still all for Dean and that was really hard to watch.

[junienmomo]

This is exactly why it's so hard for me to rewatch the Jess storyline from season 2/early season 3. Rory has feelings for Jess and therefore justifies everything he does and the way he acts to the people closest to her. It's not even Jess's behavior itself that bothers me so much; it's Rory's tacit acceptance of it as she watches other people that she cares about be hurt by it. Now, I agree that Dean should have confronted Rory about her feelings for Jess a hell of a lot earlier than he actually did, and I definitely think he shouldn't have gone to Lorelai about it so the two of them could try and steer Rory away from Jess, but Rory wanted to have her cake and eat it too and pretend she was still all for Dean and that was really hard to watch.

 

This seems to parallel Lorelai's relationship with Max. She waffled back and forth, hurting Rory and Rory's reputation at school, but still trying to pretend that she was following her dating rules to protect Rory.

[cheezwhiz346]

This seems to parallel Lorelai's relationship with Max. She waffled back and forth, hurting Rory and Rory's reputation at school, but still trying to pretend that she was following her dating rules to protect Rory.

This is a really good point, and though Lorelai's behavior in the Max relationship and how it affected Rory is something I've seen brought up in the past, for some reason it never bothered me as much, at least when I first watched the show (when it originally aired). I don't know if it's just because I watched the show when I was Rory's age and I tended to trust the kinds of things Lorelai said more automatically, or if it had to do with framing, or what, but I agree that Lorelai did let her relationship with Max hurt Rory. Maybe it didn't bother me as much because a) Lorelai acknowledged that it hurt Rory's reputation (even though she kept seeing him anyway), b) Max was not intentionally trying to hurt Rory, and c) Lorelai was called out on her behavior by both Rory and Emily. I think what bothers me more (personally, YMMV obviously) is that Rory did not seem to acknowledge that Dean in particular was being hurt by the whole thing with Jess until well after the fact, and that she didn't want to hear anyone else tell her she was in the wrong, and Jess was being surly at best to the people she cared about most. Lorelai took her lumps, at least partly (though the whole engagement/road trip to Harvard showed a pretty big lack of insight into the fact that her decision to marry or not marry Max would have seriously affected Rory).

[Aloeonatable]

 

I hated the whole storyline because it made me lose all respect for Rory. She had no loyalty to the people she loved and instead chose to ignore Jess' hateful viciousness towards them.

 

I wouldn't characterize Jess's behavior as hateful and vicious. He was rude. His treatment of Dean was rude and Dean should have punched him much like he wanted to punch Tristan. Jess mostly ignored people from what I saw. 

 

 

 

 

 

I can tell you that teenagers can be total jerks a lot of the time, but there is usually a reason why they act the way they do. I think Jess did have a good reason for mistrusting people because his mom had clearly let him down numerous times.

Now, do I think this excuses his terrible behavior toward people? No, absolutely not. He acted like a jerk throughout most of the series and he made some terrible choices. But I still like him as a character because he grew up and was able to leave his jerky attitude behind once he learned to appreciate how much people like Luke cared for him and did for him.

 

My sentiments exactly. 

[amensisterfriend]

Jess mostly ignored people from what I saw.

 

Jess was a bit worse than just your run-of-the-mill snotty and moody teen, though, at least IMO. He got himself thrown out of school, for one thing, and his behavior towards Lorelai in episodes like Nick and Nora was totally inexcusable. That said, I agree wholeheartedly that Jess showed more growth than most GG characters. It's kind of interesting to me that Jess and Logan both evolved far more than Rory did :) 

[Aloeonatable]

 

his behavior towards Lorelai in episodes like Nick and Nora was totally inexcusable.

Agreed. I do think Lorelai was being a bit condescending, however. Her intentions were good, but the way she talked to Jess without his "asking for it," was wrong IMO.She could have just taken the beer and left it at that.

 

He got himself thrown out of school, for one thing

 

He did? He wasn't passing, but he could have repeated the grade if he so chose. He was the one who made the decision not to go back to school. 

 

Believe me, Jess was an ass often times. What I have a hard time understanding was Lorelai's hatred of him. Sure, they both tried to get along because of Rory, but I don't think she ever forgave him for the way he talked to her. He was never one to automatically respect the adults in his life. He did finally grow up and appreciate Luke and for that I can forgive him his earlier transgressions.

[KatWay]

I think she disliked him because of the way he'd spoken to her and also the way he'd disrespected Luke, and also Dean to some extent, all people she liked. She didn't have Rory's hormone goggles on so all she saw was a snotty asshole looking to bang her daughter. While he shared some really nice and redeeming moments with Luke and Rory, I don't remember there ever being any of those with Lorelai, so she had no reason to believe he was changing/had changed/there was more to him aside from Luke and Rory's word for it (both of which she would have considered to be biased towards him).

[lottiedottie]

While I was washing the dishes today, I was thinking about how much I disliked Jess. I was wondering how in the hell a person like Rory would even be interested in a dick like that. And then I realized something. I'm looking at that relationship through my 41 year old eyes and when I really thought about it, I realized I had a "Jess" too! Had a mad, mad crush, he was sooooo good looking (said in my best Elaine Benes voice) and he was a total and complete selfish dickhead. He had a huge chip on his shoulder, attitude and acted like the world was against him. And yet, I and dozens of other teenage girls were drawn to him. UGH.

[cheezwhiz346]

I've been listening to the 'Return to Stars Hollow' rewatch podcast and they recently did 'Nick & Nora/Sid & Nancy' and had a bit of a discussion about Jess writing in Rory's book, and how at first Rory's kind of offended and what Jess did was disrespectful and boundary-crossing, but Rory actually liked it because she liked what he had to say. I really agree with that interpretation. When I look at it now I can't really see it as anything but disrespectful (you don't steal my stuff and write in it, assuming that your thoughts are so brilliant that I won't care; that kind of arrogance is what makes me dislike watching Jess some of the time), but Rory wouldn't necessarily see it that way.

[desertflower]

While I was washing the dishes today, I was thinking about how much I disliked Jess. I was wondering how in the hell a person like Rory would even be interested in a dick like that. And then I realized something. I'm looking at that relationship through my 41 year old eyes and when I really thought about it, I realized I had a "Jess" too! Had a mad, mad crush, he was sooooo good looking (said in my best Elaine Benes voice) and he was a total and complete selfish dickhead. He had a huge chip on his shoulder, attitude and acted like the world was against him. And yet, I and dozens of other teenage girls were drawn to him. UGH.

Yeah, I can totally believe that Rory would fall for him, despite him being a jerk 90% of the time. Because he showed a different side with her when they were alone, and a teenage girl (no matter how book smart she is) would hold on to that and even romanticize it. ("I know his true self!") Also, when Paris is asking how you know a guy is right for you, Rory talks about how you should have some similar interests but still some differences, and how there is something exciting about someone who is unpredictable, not knowing what a person is going to do next. I think Dean was getting a bit predictable at that point, and Jess kind of stepped in at just the right time to pique her interest.

I disliked Jess, but also liked him. Not sure how that works, but there you have it.

Edited March 18, 2015 by desertflower

[Artsda]

The whole Jess and Rory relationship, made me dislike and think less of Rory. That someone so nice and smart, could also be so dumb.  She knew she had feelings for Jess and she still treated Dean badly because of it. Letting Jess belittle Dean, be rude to her mother and Dean, kissing Jess while dating Dean, the lies and sneaking around, the running off to NY. She came out looking badly letting Jess get away with it all he did and turning a blind eye.

The scene where Dean calls her out that Jess was a jerk and Jess for treating her like dirt was refreshing that someone finally called her out with the truth instead of tip toeing around the Jess topic like Lane, Emily and Lorelai had been doing keeping their opinions to themselves to not make her mad or not tell her things like his leaving town or asking her things like whether he actually goes to school. Luke was the only one who was happy around them and that was because of what Rory could do for Jess.
 
Jess was rude, had an attitude to everyone, vandalizing property, fights at school, kicked out of school for not going, no responsibility for his treatment of others, stealing. His behavior overall to everyone but Rory (including Rory at times) was just awful, like his tantrum with the black eye the first time he went over to the grandparents for dinner.
 
Other than the James Dean bad boy who reads thing, I don't understand what Rory really saw in him. He lied to her basically their entire relationship. She couldn't be herself with him, she had to split up her time with Lane because she and Jess couldn't share space. He didn't want to do town events, so she had to go alone, except for the carnival which he only went because of Dean going. He never wanted to hang out with Lane and friends, so she had to either choose Lane and events or Jess. If he did grave her with his presence he wanted to leave places early like the party where Rory wanted to stay for Lane. There was nothing appealing about Rory while around Jess.

[readster]

The whole Jess and Rory relationship, made me dislike and think less of Rory. That someone so nice and smart, could also be so dumb.  She knew she had feelings for Jess and she still treated Dean badly because of it. Letting Jess belittle Dean, be rude to her mother and Dean, kissing Jess while dating Dean, the lies and sneaking around, the running off to NY. She came out looking badly letting Jess get away with it all he did and turning a blind eye.

The scene where Dean calls her out that Jess was a jerk and Jess for treating her like dirt was refreshing that someone finally called her out with the truth instead of tip toeing around the Jess topic like Lane, Emily and Lorelai had been doing keeping their opinions to themselves to not make her mad or not tell her things like his leaving town or asking her things like whether he actually goes to school. Luke was the only one who was happy around them and that was because of what Rory could do for Jess.

 

Jess was rude, had an attitude to everyone, vandalizing property, fights at school, kicked out of school for not going, no responsibility for his treatment of others, stealing. His behavior overall to everyone but Rory (including Rory at times) was just awful, like his tantrum with the black eye the first time he went over to the grandparents for dinner.

 

Other than the James Dean bad boy who reads thing, I don't understand what Rory really saw in him. He lied to her basically their entire relationship. She couldn't be herself with him, she had to split up her time with Lane because she and Jess couldn't share space. He didn't want to do town events, so she had to go alone, except for the carnival which he only went because of Dean going. He never wanted to hang out with Lane and friends, so she had to either choose Lane and events or Jess. If he did grave her with his presence he wanted to leave places early like the party where Rory wanted to stay for Lane. There was nothing appealing about Rory while around Jess.

 

 

Looking back at everything, you are right. Even how Jess used Shane who then was written to be a moron to make Rory jealous. Jess just came off as an ass, not the rebel with a heart of gold. His reasons for even skipping school and then running out on Luke were extremely petty. Milo played Jess fantastically but IRL, Jess deserved to be alone and then realizing he had to grow up and take responsibility of this actions and not constantly blame everyone else.

[Aloeonatable]

 

Milo played Jess fantastically but IRL, Jess deserved to be alone and then realizing he had to grow up and take responsibility of this actions and not constantly blame everyone else.

 

Which he did. 

 

I find Jess to be a very complex character. As for why Rory fell for him, ASP stated that the Rory/Jess relationship was Rory's sexual awakening.

 

 

his tantrum with the black eye the first time he went over to the grandparents for dinner.

 

It is interesting that we all have different views of characters. I thought the dinner would have gone well if Rory hadn't been such a nag. 

 

I know Jess was an ass when he was younger, but I still enjoyed him as a character and was happy to watch him grow up to be responsible and find his place in the world. 

 

 

There was nothing appealing about Rory while around Jess.

 

Interesting that you say this because that is how I felt about Rory/Logan and Rory/Dean. 

[Artsda]

 

It is interesting that we all have different views of characters. I thought the dinner would have gone well if Rory hadn't been such a nag.

 

I really don't think anything Rory did is what caused the disaster of that night. Emily was obviously biting her tongue the entire night, she was faking it from even before Jess got there by the way she unloaded on Lorelai after Rory was gone. He was late, he had a black eye. He was abrupt at first sight, he stormed away and slammed the door on his way out. None of his actions were because Rory asked why he had a black eye and he kept avoiding it.  There was no way that night was ever going to go well because of Jess being Jess, even if he showed up on time and without the black eye. He still would have acted rudely and snapped. 

 

I found it interesting during the entire Jess relationship he never shared a scene with Richard. The writers definitely kept them apart due to the fact Richard as well would have either had to lie in front of Rory's face or flip out. 

 

 

Interesting that you say this because that is how I felt about Rory/Logan and Rory/Dean.

I didn't make it all the way to the Logan years, but compared to Dean. Rory was able to be herself, she could hang out with Lane and Dean together, she could have Dean over at home with her mom for movie and take out nights. Dean was integrated into her life as a boyfriend. She could go to events and have her life, he learned to waltz and wore tails for her. Everything she wanted to do in town wasn't belittled, she didn't have to split her time like she had 2 separate lives. She didn't have to tip toe around the boyfriend topic with her other loved ones.  She was able to still be herself compared to how she had to live with Jess, waiting by the phone, or his constant lies and avoiding topics, always having to be alone with him, always not wanting to go with her places, or wanting to leave if he did. She became the girl who let her boyfriend treat her like dirt and she let him, which was interesting since she didn't care when he treated everyone else like dirt but her.

 

He was the loner rebel without a cause and she had to conform to that which wasn't Rory being herself. She never even got to go to prom which is something she always wanted. After Jess took off to California without a word, she bounced back pretty quickly to the real self. Her life in town, Chilton graduation, Europe, getting ready for Yale and being with her loved ones, which was the opposite of how she behaved after the Dean breakup. 

Edited March 22, 2015 by Artsda

[readster]

 

 

She was able to still be herself compared to how she had to live with Jess, waiting by the phone, or his constant lies and avoiding topics, always having to be alone with him, always not wanting to go with her places, or wanting to leave if he did. She became the girl who let her boyfriend treat her like dirt and she let him, which was interesting since she didn't care when he treated everyone else like dirt but her.

He was the loner rebel without a cause and she had to conform to that which wasn't Rory being herself. She never even got to go to prom which is something she always wanted. After Jess took off to California without a word, she bounced back pretty quickly to the real self. Her life in town, Chilton graduation, Europe, getting ready for Yale and being with her loved ones, which was the opposite of how she behaved after the Dean breakup.

 

 

 That's what I was going with. Rory had to go with what Jess wanted, not with what Rory wanted or even a meeting in the middle. It was Jess's way or the highway and that was his thinking too. "No, I know I'm smart enough, skipping school won't hurt me. Walmart is awesome!" "No, Luke!" "You don't know better, I do." "Waha, wahwah!" Then Jess got the reality check and yes, he finally grew up and stopped blaming everyone else for his mistakes in life. Of course when he reached that level he finally realized how many good things he let get away. The only thing Dean got right with how bad his character ended up was that he was right, he was never going to be good enough for Rory's grandparents and their society and he couldn't fit in, even if he tried. At least he walked away for the right reasons and not that phone in because Jared has two days free to film situation with Luke in season 6. Wow, just talk about out of place.

[Aloeonatable]

 

He was late, he had a black eye. He was abrupt at first sight, he stormed away and slammed the door on his way out.

 

Late because there was traffic. He had a black eye, not as a result of a fight with Dean, but because he was "beaked" by a swan, which he found embarrassing. He was abrupt and stormed away because Rory wouldn't let it go. She kept badgering him and assumed that he was in a fight with Dean, and not only that, but that he started it. 

 

 

Rory had to go with what Jess wanted, not with what Rory wanted or even a meeting in the middle. It was Jess's way or the highway and that was his thinking too. "No, I know I'm smart enough, skipping school won't hurt me. Walmart is awesome!" "No, Luke!" "You don't know better, I do." "Waha, wahwah!"

 

Just because we never saw Jess hanging out with Lorelai and Rory, doesn't mean it never happened. We know they watched movies frequently, even Lane called them an agoraphobic old couple, so I can imagine Lorelai was there on occasion. As for school, he should have been encouraged to take his GED. Not everyone takes the traditional route and Rory knew he was more than capable of doing well. I never got the impression that Jess whined about his situation. He didn't get kicked out of school and he didn't fail due to lack of intelligence. And what teenager doesn't question their parent or guardian or think they know what is best. Rory did it on several occasions (not effected by Jess, but by Dean and Logan.) 

[Artsda]

 

Just because we never saw Jess hanging out with Lorelai and Rory, doesn't mean it never happened. We know they watched movies frequently, even Lane called them an agoraphobic old couple, so I can imagine Lorelai was there on occasion.

None of Lorelai's behavior around Jess, showed someone who was comfortable with him to hang out. She tip toed around him and avoided him, she was polite and that's about it. She didn't show comfort around him to spend an evening on their couch, especially after the catching him Rory's bedroom putting the bracelet back that she called him out on.

 

If Jess didn't want to go to school and wanted his GED, he could have done that. Instead he lied to everyone, said he was going to school and never went. Skipped everyday (which shouldn't the school have called Luke about?) and he flunked out. Having to take the entire senior year over again is flunking out if you choose not to do it. His I know it all attitude didn't make him look smart or appear smart at all. 

 

 

Late because there was traffic. He had a black eye, not as a result of a fight with Dean, but because he was "beaked" by a swan, which he found embarrassing. He was abrupt and stormed away because Rory wouldn't let it go.

Jess's treatment of Rory is not all Rory's fault. He was lying about his attending school already at this point and now he was lying to her face about the black eye and he was brushing her off rudely from the second he came in. It wasn't Rory's fault he stormed off. Jess's behavior and treatment of others is on Jess. He could have easily took her aside when he came in, apologized sincerely and made up his football in the face lie when he came in instead of at the end of the episode when he lied.

 

 

That's what I was going with. Rory had to go with what Jess wanted, not with what Rory wanted or even a meeting in the middle. It was Jess's way or the highway and that was his thinking too.

Exactly, there was no meeting in the middle unless he had an ulterior feelings motive. Like the winter carnival, he refused to go despite Rory wanting him to come with her. Not until he saw Dean was going that he suddenly changed gears. She wanted to go to the hockey game and he wouldn't call etc.. but when he shows up with tickets to what ever she had to go. Which she lied and didn't tell Lorelai about because she was embarrassed herself about the person she was being around Jess. 

Edited March 23, 2015 by Artsda

[Aloeonatable]

 

If Jess didn't want to go to school and wanted his GED, he could have done that. Instead he lied to everyone, said he was going to school and never went. Skipped everyday (which shouldn't the school have called Luke about?) and he flunked out. Having to take the entire senior year over again is flunking out if you choose not to do it. His I know it all attitude didn't make him look smart or appear smart at all.

 

I agree that it was his choice not to attend, but my point wasn't that he didn't graduate because he wasn't capable but because he didn't attend classes. Jess was a mixed up kid who didn't help himself with his attitude when he was younger. I liked that he grew up and made something of himself and showed his appreciation to the two people that believed in him, Luke and Rory. 

 

 

She wanted to go to the hockey game and he wouldn't call etc.. but when he shows up with tickets to what ever she had to go.

 

Rory wanted to go to the hockey game with Jess? I don't recall that. She was upset that he didn't make plans to see her and only went to the game because she had nothing else to do. Rory was very passive/aggressive when it came to all the boys in her life. 

 

 

It wasn't Rory's fault he stormed off.

 

I have to disagree. He left because she wouldn't believe him when he said that the black eye wasn't the result of a fight with Dean. Hey, I know they had major trust issues and Jess didn't help the matter by lying about the black eye. 

[readster]

The thing about Jess, is when he really wanted something he would apply himself big time like his POS car and becoming Walmart employee of the month. However, like any teen who like to blame others for his problems he wanted that to just happen for him. Never thought about the effort that went into things and that didn't help with his trust issues. Especially, when he couldn't come clean about the embarrassment that was goose gate. Not to mention not seeing a doctor because the goose's beak could have been carrying bacteria on it. Read about a kid that was bit by a goose, parents didn't think much of it and then it got badly infected due to transfer of bacteria from the goose. Luckily it was easily treated for the kid but the parents didn't think of shrugging something off like that again.

[Artsda]

 

I agree that it was his choice not to attend, but my point wasn't that he didn't graduate because he wasn't capable but because he didn't attend classes.

It doesn't change the fact he flunked out. A lot of kids are smart enough to pass, but flunk out because of their other issues/skipping/not applying themselves to actually do the work. He didn't go, he didn't do the work, he failed all the material, he flunked out to have to redo the year and material. Jess thought he'd graduate based on what? Osmosis? If he thought about attending school he'd get a passing grade? The principle said he tried over and over to work something out with Jess, and Jess never got back to him and brushed it all off.  

 

After all Luke did for him and tried to do for him, he still treated Luke like crap over and over. All Luke asked of him was that he get an education and go to school and graduate. Which he couldn't bother to do, and he knew it was wrong because he lied about it to everyone including Rory.

 

He applied himself for things he wanted like money at Walmart job for his car, but  paying off the family the house party did the damage too he wouldn't offer to take responsibility for. Luke paid that off and Dean went back to apologize and paid that off, Jess just acted like a brat and said Dean started it while Luke wrote that cheque for the other half of the damages.  Jess's way or no way, even if his actions affected others like Luke or Rory. Jess acting like a jerk 24/7 to everyone is not Rory's fault, if anything is her doing is that she didn't call him out on his treatment of others and let him get away with all he did for how long she did.

[readster]

 

Jess thought he'd graduate based on what? Osmosis? If he thought about attending school he'd get a passing grade? The principle said he tried over and over to work something out with Jess, and Jess never got back to him and brushed it all off.

 

  Exactly! Of course, I would have like to see this "work something out" because it was all tell and don't show and by tell I mean: Said he offered but never explained what it was. Yes, it was Luke's money and we know Dean paid his part and he even admitted he started the fight but he owned up to everything. Can't say the same later with the affair but still. There was the difference between owning up to the mistake and taking responsibility and: "You have nothing? I have nothing!" to his dad who magically reappeared and we never got the real reason after almost a decade he just showed up. Even the people his father lived with and worked with were even shocked that Jess showed up. Like it was Jess who ran out on his dad.

Edited March 23, 2015 by readster

[Aloeonatable]

 

He applied himself for things he wanted like money at Walmart job for his car, but  paying off the family the house party did the damage too he wouldn't offer to take responsibility for. Luke paid that off and Dean went back to apologize and paid that off, Jess just acted like a brat and said Dean started it while Luke wrote that cheque for the other half of the damages.  Jess's way or no way, even if his actions affected others like Luke or Rory. Jess acting like a jerk 24/7 to everyone is not Rory's fault, if anything is her doing is that she didn't call him out on his treatment of others and let him get away with all he did for how long she did.

 

Jess eventually paid Luke back. He grew up and realized that Luke cared about him. I admire that change. And, Dean did start it. I do hold Jess accountable for his behavior. Look, I probably wouldn't like someone like season 2 & 3 Jess in real life. He had a huge chip on his shoulder. However, I understood why he was the way he was and loved that he finally got his act together. I found him interesting and could definitely see why Rory found him attractive. 

[JayInChicago]

I was thinking the last time i saw the failed backdoor pilot episode aka "Jess in a biker jacket stares moodily at the Pacific Ocean"...if that all is considered show canon (which i'm kind of eh about myself since it was a backdoor pilot and all and only tangentially related to GG) what are we to infer happened in california between Jess and Jimmy?

 

i wonder if jimmy kicked jess out. or maybe jess realized jimmy sucked.

[readster]

I was thinking the last time i saw the failed backdoor pilot episode aka "Jess in a biker jacket stares moodily at the Pacific Ocean"...if that all is considered show canon (which i'm kind of eh about myself since it was a backdoor pilot and all and only tangentially related to GG) what are we to infer happened in california between Jess and Jimmy?

 

i wonder if jimmy kicked jess out. or maybe jess realized jimmy sucked.

 

 

 My mom and I actually went over how that story happened outside the the context of the story. I think our best was: AS-P "Yy new spin off is going to be awesome!" CW: "We don't care, we want to give 7th Heaven an 11th season and bring on Jack & Bobby, we want bad drama not 'dramady'." 

 

All joking aside, we actually came up with how Jess at first saw he really did have nothing and then started realizing that working at a pier food shack was no better than when he worked at Luke's. He couldn't go to Walmart again because there weren't any in that part of California and Target didn't want him due to him skipping out and quitting without notice at his former job at Walmart and he couldn't find a job outside of the shack. Jimmy only had so much money and what happens is Jess sees Jimmy being more of a father to his girlfriend's daughter. Who we find out died when the the daughter was two and that she took a job with Jimmy and then they opened the shack together. At first Jess feels bad but then really wants an answer to why he ran out. Jimmy admits it was Liz's living habits. He was trying to work two jobs, Liz wanted to spend any extra money on pot and was late with the bills. He was basically raising Jess on his own during that first year while trying to raise both Jess and Liz and then he just crumbled. He was about to lose his job and he knew Luke would bail Liz out, so he took the easy way out. Jess not only sees that Jimmy was a quitter but he did the same and decides that he won't be like Jimmy was and leaves. However, he realizes he won't go back with his mom or Luke after everything that happened. So, Jimmy gives him some money to get started and Jess heads back to New York, gets back into contact with Liz and we know the rest of the story. My mother and I decided that real reason why he needed his POS car back was to run deliveries and a temp car he got broke down and he didn't have the money to fix it. Then he learns his car is still in Stars Hollow and while it breaks down. He knows he has enough money to have Gypsy get it running again and goes from there. 

[solotrek]

My mom and I actually went over how that story happened outside the the context of the story. I think our best was: AS-P "Yy new spin off is going to be awesome!" CW: "We don't care, we want to give 7th Heaven an 11th season and bring on Jack & Bobby, we want bad drama not 'dramady'."

 

To be fair, Jack & Bobby was actually a decent drama with a phenomenal cast. The show that they sacrificed for another season of 7th Heaven was Everwood. Those bastards.

 

Maybe because the actress later went on to play Anna Nardini, but I think Jess leaving had more to do with Jimmy's girlfriend than anything.

 

And, Dean did start it.

 

If Jess were 7 or 8 and making that argument, it's kind of understandable. Not 17 or 18.

 

I do see what Rory saw in Jess though. He was obviously smart, funny, cute, and well read but also played harmless (albeit illegal) pranks. His constant brooding, inability to talk, and fluctuating moods aside (and Rory did tend to push his faults aside) - I can see why a teenage girl would be interested in someone like him. Teenage hormones are a hell of a thing.

[Aloeonatable]

 

If Jess were 7 or 8 and making that argument, it's kind of understandable. Not 17 or 18

 

Of course, the statement sounded childish, but the sentiment was right on. Would you expect any 17 or 18 year old to walk away from a fight started by a sucker punch? I'm not excusing Jess's behavior, but his fighting back was not surprising. 

[readster]

 

To be fair, Jack & Bobby was actually a decent drama with a phenomenal cast. The show that they sacrificed for another season of 7th Heaven was Everwood. Those bastards.

 

 Oh I know. Of course seeing where they show runners wanted to go with Season 5, I'm actually happy the show didn't get renewed. I did like Jack & Bobby when it started but in the middle it started becoming a mess. I did like the conclusion to the series but yeah, the CW had very weird tastes in what they wanted on the network at that time. I do know many people now reflect and when Smallville was their new hit how they didn't try working more superhero shows even after Birds of Prey failed. Which I blame on the writing. Of course, once network chairs changed we got Arrow and later Flash. Both doing great and the former creators from Everwood and Jack & Bobby on them. They just told them not to "force" their own beliefs on the shows, just make them good. Something I know that doomed AS-P's spin off series and later with Bunheads a few years later. AS-P had a specific vision with her shows or characters and if you even dared to disagreed with her, watch out!

[Artsda]

 

Of course, the statement sounded childish, but the sentiment was right on. Would you expect any 17 or 18 year old to walk away from a fight started by a sucker punch? I'm not excusing Jess's behavior, but his fighting back was not surprising.

That was his mentality for everything, when he showed back up for the car in season 4. Treating Luke like shit, even having the audacity to say that Luke owed HIM money to pay for the broken down car. Saying Luke was a burden to everyone around him Lorelai went up to Jess to call him out on what he said to Luke and Jess's response to her was first to say he said nothing and then "you started it." 

 

And even after that Luke still left him an envelope of money. There was so much Jess had to pay Luke back for, I don't even know years later if he gave him back all. 

Edited March 24, 2015 by Artsda