S08.E07: Kill The Moon

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Possibly, except this Doctor doesn't seem overly concerned with anyone's opinions of him and even if he was, he endangered an entire school last episode with a killer robot thinking in his arrogance that in a school full of children and staff that noone would notice strange metal devices stuck in random places. He's never really let himself be accountable to humanity/anyone for his actions through time and space.

He still needs to feel superior to everyone around him, and screwing up in a big way would be a blow to his ego, especially if his current entourage witnessed it. It's not anyone else's opinions of him that matter, it's his own. If someone fooled with a strange metal device, that's someone he could blame, even if he should have been able to anticipate that. This time, he rationalized leaving the big choice to someone else because there wouldn't have been a fall guy if he was wrong.

[elle]

He still needs to feel superior to everyone around him, and screwing up in a big way would be a blow to his ego, 

Is this something Twelve shares with the First Doctor or was it the case with the First Doctor that he *knew* he was superior?

[Llywela]

Is this something Twelve shares with the First Doctor or was it the case with the First Doctor that he *knew* he was superior?

The 1st Doctor knew he was superior, because he was a Time Lord with advanced knowledge. He didn't need anyone to validate him - although he liked it when they did (but also learned quickly that even primitive humans had plenty to offer). He was high-handed and autocratic and liked to be obeyed, especially when he was under stress, but he was also warm and loving with those he took under his wing, as well as playful and mischievous, full of fun and twinkly charm, and passionate about his love of exploration and scientific discovery. Seriously, Capaldi's Doctor is nothing like him.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Llywela

[RedHackle]

What makes you think the Doctor doesn't care for black people? Because he was rude to both Danny and Courtney? This new Doctor has been rude to everyone he has met, universally, black or white.

 

Not quite; when he thought that Clara's love interest was the other teacher who the Doctor seemed to think bore a resemblance to #11, he was all kind and accepting of him.  That contrasted with the snarky way he treated Danny just seemed...odd.  And unless I stated my case badly, I wasn't saying that the Doctor is a racist, I was saying that some bad writing made it thoughtlessly appear that the doctor might be racist.  (I may not have been clear enough when I posted.)  Anyway, it seemed like all the posts I was seeing have said they liked this episode, and that they all seem to hate Clara - that's why I said I feel out of touch.

[truther]

Not quite; when he thought that Clara's love interest was the other teacher who the Doctor seemed to think bore a resemblance to #11, he was all kind and accepting of him . . . I wasn't saying that the Doctor is a racist, I was saying that some bad writing made it thoughtlessly appear that the doctor might be racist.

Yep, that's exactly how I saw it, too.  The only time Twelve has taken a kindly view of anything any human has done is when he thought Clara was dating a well-dressed white guy instead of the black guy she's actually going out with.  All this speculation here about race simply highlights what an awful job the show has done in explaining the Doctor's motivations. 

[ketose]

Yep, that's exactly how I saw it, too.  The only time Twelve has taken a kindly view of anything any human has done is when he thought Clara was dating a well-dressed white guy instead of the black guy she's actually going out with.  All this speculation here about race simply highlights what an awful job the show has done in explaining the Doctor's motivations. 

Or a guy who looked like the previous incarnation of himself.

[AudienceofOne]

Or a guy who looked like the previous incarnation of himself.

 

 

Exactly, We've gone through this a thousand times. One looked and acted like Eleven. The other was a soldier. I'm all for analysing subtext but not when the text will do. And if they hadn't cast a black man we'd be complaining about their refusal to cast black actors as love interests.

[tv-talk]

Yeah it was obvious the other guy reminded Doctor of himself and that's why he liked him. However I agree 100% that if you write a character as an old cranky jerk it's pretty easy for people to then suspect the worst in him (whether it's racism, sexism, anything bad really) and is really a symptom of bad writing in that seemingly none of the Doctor's warm characteristic have come through yet to balance it out. If the Doctor showed some warmth or affection once in awhile, he could yell at black people or say disparaging things about Clara's body all day and no one would question what was going on. He'd be a lovable crank rather than just a jerk people are unsure of.

 

Perhaps the season is going to trend that way though, as in the Doctor warming up a bit and seemingly caring for other people more than currently. To me it seems that the writers have decided 12 lost a ton of himself in the regeneration, no longer has any understanding of humans or how to act around them. At some point he needs to get that back if they expect the audience to connect with him en route to a successful Capaldi run as the Doctor.

[truther]

I'm all for analysing subtext but not when the text will do.

Several people have tried to thoughtfully explain why the "text" wasn't as clear as you would make it out to be.  How's about we simply acknowledge the differing viewpoints rather than try to tell people what to think?

[Which Tyler]

Arrgh! What a horrendous thought.

If the moon just increased its mass 81 fold, what is THAT going to do to all the PMS out there?

[elle]

Trying to figure out what unusual movie I was watching, discovered I watching the tv movie version of Terry Pratchett's The Colour of Magic.  While reading the synopsis, I came across this plot point and laugh out loud.  

 

 

 

The star is finally revealed as a world-turtle breeding ground: the Octavo spells prompt several eggs orbiting the star to hatch into juvenile discworlds, which follow Great A'Tuin as it returns to deep space.

 

Think any of the writers have read the book?

 

Can "Luggage" be the next companion, please!

Edited October 30, 2014 by elle

[MDKNIGHT]

I pretty much hated this episode.  I am only now catching up with the show by marathoning this season.  I hand wave a lot for DW but the idea that the moon could be an egg and yet it's increasing mass then hatching would not destroy the ecology of the earth and kill off everything currently living was that bridge too far for me.  Then presenting the humans as being WRONG  for deciding to kill something that in a universe where real physics exist WOULD have killed off the earth, was just rediculous.  And then they compounded my anoyance by having 3 people over rule billions and somehow not present that as the act of meglomaniacs.  The choice as presented was very clear.  You destroy the threat and feel regret at having had to take the life of something.  Furthermore if these creatures exist then it is likely a Time Lord would have heard of them and known it was harmless and then trying to save it would make sense.  Trying to save the space whale made sense.  This didn't. 

 

As far as the doctor I've been having trouble finding his good points in this incarnation and his ep didn't help matters at all.  Also I didn't feel Clara making a decision is the same as "letting humanity decide."  The levels of privilege shown in these episodes is beginning to make me think that the British class system is seeping into the mythology to a level where I notice it and never did before, with the exception of the Tenent episode where Martha was a maid and the Doctor condoned caning a kid for saying maybe not all enemies of he British empire are subhuman.  At least in that case I think we were supposed to see the British olden days (were they in the 1930's? I forget.) as being philosophically backward.

[ketose]

It's sort of like laughing at a person from the 19th century because he can't operate an iPhone. The set up exists solely to make someone's wild guess correct in retrospect. I believe the Simpsons called it pulling a Homer.

[Shellgame]

On 10/4/2014 at 9:09 PM, Jenniferbug said:

I'm tired of companions dying or having some tragic end. Martha is the only exception to this in the new series.

I’m not sure I’d say Rose had a tragic end. Even Amy and Rory just lived somewhen else and grew old together. I would like to see companions deciding it’s just time to move on more often, though.

[Shellgame]

On 10/4/2014 at 9:16 PM, futurechemist said:

The show cant spend 50 minutes building up how horrible a choice there is, and then say "by the way turns out 1 of the options had no downside whatsoever"

“The Beast Below.”

[Shellgame]

On 10/4/2014 at 9:53 PM, truther said:

How can a space creature that hatched from the Moon then lay an egg the size of the Moon? 

It must have been bigger on the inside. (I’ll show myself out.)

[Shellgame]

On 10/4/2014 at 9:58 PM, Mr. Simpatico said:

but the writer doesn't know much about the US Constitution (which requires a President to be both native-born and a long-term resident) if

Not sure whether the writer didn’t know or that’s part of the joke. Maybe Courtney was born in the U.S. when her parents were there for some reason. Maybe she will move there someday. Did he specify it was U.S. President? I forget. Maybe she somehow gets moved to Pete’s World where the UK has a president.

[Shellgame]

On 10/5/2014 at 8:19 AM, Mabinogia said:

When Donna finally realized the volcano had to happen, she willingly took the burden on. The Doctor didn't have to, didn't hint that she should, he was ready to take it on himself and Donna stepped up on her own.

That’s the thing too, isn’t it? The Doctor didn’t tell Donna she had to do it and leave.

On 10/5/2014 at 8:19 AM, Mabinogia said:

 

I didn't see the abortion parallel (I know, what am I blind?)

 

I gather the writer of this episode also didn’t realize this could be looked on as an abortion metaphor.

[Shellgame]

On 10/5/2014 at 11:50 AM, mirrorrim said:

I know occasionally they mention visiting a beach or something, but with the infrequency they mention those trips, I assume 90% of trips involve life or death situations.

I always thought that most trips were just fun but that we don’t see those because that’s not the type of story they generally tell.