S04.E21: Kyle

[Kimboweena]

On 5/1/2025 at 9:47 PM, PaulE said:

Face-palming seems to be a recurring theme now: first Isaac, then Alberta, and now Sam.

Please remind me who Isaac face-palmed and why. Thank you.

[Katy M]

Kyle apparently has the same boundary issues as Sam when it comes to ghosts.  You don't break into someone's house just because a ghost asks you to. Of course, he also tried to kiss a married woman on his own, so he may not have boundary issues. And, while not his fault, all Kyle did was make Jay feel more out of the loop.   

Count me in on those thinking it's creepy, gross to wait for a Sass sex synopsis.

[iMonrey]

18 hours ago, I Want My MBTV said:

 It also irritated me when the ghosts were calling both Sam and Kyle servants.  I do wish Sam would stand up to them more sometimes.  When Sam was made at Jay and told him that Kyle "is taking all the ghosts tasks off her plate" - I was like "what would then be left on your plate??"  Like Hetty said they rarely have guests and Sam doesn't appear to help at the restaurant (which is sadly also empty) so...... 

Yeah, I don't know how they can afford to hire an assistant when at the same time they're telling us they hardly ever have any guests and people aren't coming back to the restaurant because of the bad publicity. 

And I agree about Hetty calling Kyle their servant (although it's very in-character for her). It's both impractical and expensive to buy three whole bags of Hot Pockets just so Kyle can keep heating them up and taking them out of the microwave for the ghosts to smell. What a colossal waste of money and food. 

21 hours ago, chaifan said:

If I were a tv show writer I would definitely have an assistant go through forums like these, and relay back useful comments, things that come up repeatedly that might need clarification, inconsistencies, etc.  So I can see this being very possible.  

Well the writers were definitely poking the audience with Jay's comment about the ghost boundary and then having Hetty start to say something about it, only to cut her off and switch to Jay's POV so we wouldn't hear what it was. 

1 hour ago, Kimboweena said:

Please remind me who Isaac face-palmed and why. Thank you.

Isaac face-palmed Nigel the first time he tried to kiss him.

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

Kyle apparently has the same boundary issues as Sam when it comes to ghosts.  You don't break into someone's house just because a ghost asks you to.

On rewatch this story didn't make much sense. Assuming the old woman's ghost was bound to her property, how did Kyle even meet her in the first place? Was he just walking by her house and saw her out in the front yard or something?

[DanaK]

41 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Well the writers were definitely poking the audience with Jay's comment about the ghost boundary and then having Hetty start to say something about it, only to cut her off and switch to Jay's POV so we wouldn't hear what it was. 

I thought that was hilarious, especially since we don't hear what Hetty said

[Chit Chat]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

Kyle apparently has the same boundary issues as Sam when it comes to ghosts.  You don't break into someone's house just because a ghost asks you to.

The problem with some of the ghosts is that they're relentless whenever they want something.  They tend to make Sam feel guilty if she doesn't help them, and that's the issue that Kyle is running into. Sam did put her foot down with her ghosts about constantly being in her face early on, but they still tend to nag her until she addresses their problems.  It would be a tough situation to be in! 

In the beginning of the U.K. version, ghost Mary was in Alison's face saying "get out" non-stop.  Again, some ghosts are pretty stubborn and annoying!!

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

On rewatch this story didn't make much sense. Assuming the old woman's ghost was bound to her property, how did Kyle even meet her in the first place? Was he just walking by her house and saw her out in the front yard or something?

I was wondering that, too, but I thought maybe she died in a hospital or something.

But, also, did she hide the locket, or whatever it was, in the walls, in a hidden safe.  Why was it still in the house and somewhere she would know it would still be?  

 

[ofmd]

I'm officially over this show. If I wanted to watch an immature, trite "losing virginity" plot written for an audience of 13 year olds, I'd watch high school movies. (And those would be better.)

Even though her falling out of the house was funny.

Kyle's lines about how hard it is to meet someone bc ghosts, and also, maybe she's not Jewish was funny but made no sense - after all, Sam isn't Jewish and he made a pass at her anyway.

Edited Saturday at 05:04 PM by ofmd

[Orcinus orca]

28 minutes ago, ofmd said:

Kyle's lines about how hard it is to meet someone bc ghosts, and also, maybe she's not Jewish was funny but made no sense - after all, Sam isn't Jewish and he made a pass at her anyway.

I'm guessing it's more along the lines of a Jewish girl being attracted to him.

[chaifan]

4 hours ago, Katy M said:

But, also, did she hide the locket, or whatever it was, in the walls, in a hidden safe.  Why was it still in the house and somewhere she would know it would still be?  

The real reason is plot, of course.  But, beyond that, a lot of the grander homes had secret nooks & crannies built in back in the day.  Fake drawer bottoms or cabinet backs in built-in china cabinets, hidden pockets behind panels in paneled walls, bookshelves, etc.  All that neat stuff you see in murder mystery movies - finer homes really had those hidden cubbies built in.  

[Driad]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

finer homes really had those hidden cubbies built in.  

And sometimes, depending on the political situation, places to hide a priest, a person escaping from slavery, or other fugitive.

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

On rewatch this story didn't make much sense. Assuming the old woman's ghost was bound to her property, how did Kyle even meet her in the first place? Was he just walking by her house and saw her out in the front yard or something?

5 hours ago, Katy M said:

was wondering that, too, but I thought maybe she died in a hospital or something.

Either is possible, but isn’t there some basic rule of Script Writing 101 that you have to explain stuff like this?

I got lost in the beginning of Kyle’s explanation with:

• ”There was this ghost, Marian, who intended, on her deathbed, to give her daughter a locket. But a winter storm delayed her daughter's arrival, and so Marian died without being able to pass on that family heirloom. Years passed, a new family moved into the house, and ghost Marian begged me to get the locket, which was hidden in the house, and track down her daughter. So I tried to talk my way into the house at first, but to no avail, and so, one night, I, uh, I broke in. And I got the locket to Marian's daughter, but I got caught on the neighbor's Ring cam…”

I was watching live, or else I would’ve paused it. Huh? Isn’t “this ghost, Marian, who was on her deathbed bed…” 
still alive at that point and so not a ghost? 
It just seemed awkwardly written. 
And sure, in real life, people frequently tell stories in confusing ways. But unless either Kyle being confused was part of the plot, or if Kyle’s explanation being confusing was part of the plot, don’t write it that way.

So, still mentally sorting that bit, I glossed over the next confusing part about how did Kyle meet Marian?
Maybe, like @iMonrey suggested, she was in the yard.
Or, like @Katy M suggested, she was in a hospital.
Or, maybe she’s free-ranging like Pete.
But since the story depends upon Kyle having to do a B&E because he feels sorry for a ghost, the story is pretty skimpy.

Maybe this plot was just too big for a single episode that also had Sass’s plot in it, and the writers figured they could just trim it?

And, one more:
That random 3rd joke for the rule-of-three punchline of:

• “You don't know what it's like out there, trying to meet people with this weird thing, you know?
  [1] I-I try to hide it and they think I'm insane.
  [2] Or I tell them, and they think I'm insane.
  [3] Or they're-they're not Jewish.”

…was okay as a standalone joke, but with him trying to kiss Sam, it gets confusing. Was that supposed to imply that Kyle was only thinking of Sam as a tryst?? So he wasn’t really trying to steal her away from Jay???
Or just a random joke on a sitcom?
Probably just a random joke that needed to be cut for this plot, but wasn’t?

Edited Saturday at 10:46 PM by shapeshifter

[chaifan]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I was watching live, or else I would’ve paused it. Huh? Isn’t “this ghost, Marian, who was on her deathbed bed…” 
still alive at that point and so not a ghost? 

It made sense to me.  The woman, while alive, but barely so (deathbed) wanted to gift an heirloom, but she died before it could have happened.  She told Kyle this story as a ghost.  

Maybe she died at home and as someone said, Kyle was walking by and saw her in her front yard.  Or maybe she died at a hospital where he was visiting someone else.  It really doesn't matter, does it?  I think Kyle's story made enough sense for plot purposes.

As long as the writers keep consistency within the main group of ghosts, ghost rules, etc., I don't need everything else to make 100% sense all the time.  It's a show about ghosts, after all.  

1 hour ago, Driad said:

And sometimes, depending on the political situation, places to hide a priest, a person escaping from slavery, or other fugitive.

Yep, a lot of that, too.  I live in an area that was big in the Underground Railroad.  A lot of old houses had places big enough for a person.  But I was talking specifically about little hiding places.  And some of those old houses had plenty of those, too.  Side note:  if anyone has one of those big old secretaries (the furniture, not the employee), many of those were built with secret cubbies.  

 

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I got lost in the beginning of Kyle’s explanation with:

I didn't pay close enough attention to the details.  With stuff like that, I just roll with it!  😉

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

…was okay as a standalone joke, but with him trying to kiss Sam, it gets confusing. Was that supposed to imply that Kyle was only thinking of Sam as a tryst?? So he wasn’t really trying to steal her away from Jay???

I think that Kyle got caught up in the emotion of it all and misread Sam's intentions.  If Sam were attracted to him, I have no doubt that he would've kicked Jay to the curb in a heartbeat.  Sadly, some people are like that.  Luckily, Sam did the right thing, and we avoided the dreaded 'will they or won't they' scenario between her & Kyle.   Dear Writers:  Please do not screw up the relationship between Sam & Jay under any circumstances!  

[Zaffy]

I am glad the whole virginity thingy ended, it was awkward to say the least, even I did giggle when Sassapis threw her off the wall.
Ben Feldman is 44? wow!

The scenes with Jay looking at Sam and Kyle talking to noone reminded me of Izombie when she had the visions. That was quite meta!

[NJRadioGuy]

On 5/1/2025 at 10:20 PM, ams1001 said:

In a diner somewhere. 

I'm curious if that was a location shoot or a soundstage. It was absolutely giving off a Schwartz's vibe but it wasn't Schwartz's, and didn't appear to be a set. How I miss Montreal smoked meat! Food of the gods right there!

On 5/2/2025 at 11:19 AM, proserpina65 said:

I didn't care for this episode at all. 

Me either. Too sitcom-y for my liking. In a bad way. The whole 500 year old virgin storyline should have been solved simply and tastefully, in maybe two episodes. Sass is a good guy and didn't deserve any of that nonsense.

[iMonrey]

I don't know where they're going with Sass and Joan, but while I don't exactly dislike Joan, I don't think she's a good fit for this show. The character just feels too gimmicky and out of place. We know next to nothing about her and they still haven't explained where Pete met her, or what she's doing in New York when she's clearly supposed to be an "old Hollywood" type of character.

I also don't think she's a good match for Sass, although I guess their bond is supposed to be that they're both storytellers. I don't know, I guess I'd rather just see him with someone like Shiki.

I thought it was interesting that Trevor was willing to sit there and watch Thor and Flower get it on since he had nothing better to do. 

[Paloma]

25 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I don't know where they're going with Sass and Joan, but while I don't exactly dislike Joan, I don't think she's a good fit for this show. The character just feels too gimmicky and out of place.

I agree and would like to see Sass have a good match. But I don't think Shiki is that match either--she just does not seem particularly likeable to me, and I didn't see why he was in love with her. 

Overall I enjoyed the episode because it opened up new comic territory with someone other than Sam being able to see and talk to ghosts permanently. I hope Kyle can be brought back at least occasionally. I'm predisposed to like the character because I've loved Ben Feldman since he was a guardian angel in Drop Dead Diva.

[Bastet]

On 5/1/2025 at 6:47 PM, PaulE said:

He does, but at certain moments he reminded me of Scott Baio,

Ben Feldman has always reminded me of Scott Baio, more and more so the older he gets.

[Annber03]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I thought it was interesting that Trevor was willing to sit there and watch Thor and Flower get it on since he had nothing better to do. 

That's why the ending with the ghosts reacting to Sasappis and Joan hooking up didn't bother me - the show has made numerous references to the fact they're all total voyeurs when it comes to issues relating to sex. Most often with the living people who come in and out of that mansion, as well as Sam and Jay, but they've also been known to get nosy about each other's love lives in the past as well (teasing Isaac for taking so long to kiss Nigel, wanting to know the details of Alberta's night wiht Saul, getting the details on Hetty and Trevor's whole thing when they finally revealed they were hooking up, etc.). So that ending just felt very in keeping with that. They've been here for decades/centuries and will take any kind of entertainment they can get, evidently :p. 

[PaulE]

4 hours ago, Paloma said:

I agree and would like to see Sass have a good match. But I don't think Shiki is that match either--she just does not seem particularly likeable to me, and I didn't see why he was in love with her. 

I guess Joan (like Nigel) is the type of character you either like or dislike, with no middle ground.  I like her, but I also don't see her in a long-term relationship with Sass.  At this point, she's the stereotypical older, more mature, worldly-wise woman nurturing a younger, inexperienced man, but that probably won't last forever, especially since she can travel and is bound to meet other men that might attract her.  We'll see, I guess.  

I also don't see Shiki as Sass's ideal match, but I don't think he was genuinely in love with her.  I see it as more of a crush--maybe the first time he'd really been attracted by a woman.  But they never got to know each other very well and develop those feelings.  He might have thought of himself as being in love, but I suspect it was more a matter of being in like (and, yeah, sexual desire might have been part of that, even though he never got to follow through on that with her).  And from the little we've seen of Shiki, I don't have the impression that, when he was alive, she really thought that much about him at all.

[kathyk2]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I don't know where they're going with Sass and Joan, but while I don't exactly dislike Joan, I don't think she's a good fit for this show. The character just feels too gimmicky and out of place. We know next to nothing about her and they still haven't explained where Pete met her, or what she's doing in New York when she's clearly supposed to be an "old Hollywood" type of character.

I also don't think she's a good match for Sass, although I guess their bond is supposed to be that they're both storytellers. I don't know, I guess I'd rather just see him with someone like Shiki.

I thought it was interesting that Trevor was willing to sit there and watch Thor and Flower get it on since he had nothing better to do. 

I like Joan the ghost I can't stand is Patience. She's not funny and she brought out the worst in Isaac. I hope she gets sent to Hell with Elias.

[Chit Chat]

3 hours ago, PaulE said:

I guess Joan (like Nigel) is the type of character you either like or dislike, with no middle ground. 

I like her, but I don't think she & Sass had much chemistry.  The relationship was rushed and forced just for the sake of Sass to lose his virginity.  He was more smitten with the car ghost girl than Joan, in my humble opinion. 

Same thing with Pete & Alberta.  I'm just not seeing the sparks between them.  "Will they, or won't they?"  I really don't care.  Less ghost hooking up and more original & interesting storylines, please!

[Deskisamess]

On 5/1/2025 at 9:10 PM, highway61 said:

Wow - the episode certainly opened up a lot of new emotional territory!

But because I'm a certain age, I just couldn't get past how much Kyle looks like young David Naughton.

 

I thought he looks like Scott Baio.