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Caleb Johnson

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From the last episode thread:

 

Hmm that's interesting that you guys like Caleb better with short hair. I think he looks better with long hair, it just seems to suit his personality more. Plus he's a little chubby in the face, so the hair kind of covers that up. I think he has lost weight a little since that video though.

I can see that, but I think, and this may sound ridiculous, that the longer hair makes him look more like someone acting a part and less authentic.  He looked more real and more comfortable to me in his original video. 

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From a practical point of view, it'd be awfully hard for a rocker to win. Because let's face it, people who listen to rock aren't so much watching (much less voting in) AI.

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He reminds me of a calmer James Durbin, and he reminds my boyfriend of Meatloaf! I like him a lot, and I love his song choices.

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Sam was my original horse in the race but since he has a lot of trouble connecting to his songs and to the audience, Caleb is my man to win it all. He delivers consistently good performances every single week and even on his weaker songs (Edge of Glory, Working Man) his weaker performances are still better than some of the others' best performances. Rockers have won in the past, even if they were not classic hard rockers like Caleb is. He is a lock for Top 5, at least. It doesn't really matter whether or not he wins anyway, what matters is that someone will be interested in signing him after he's eliminated. And if he does win, we just better hope Interscope doesn't try to, pardon my French, fuck him up. What matters is that if anyone picks him up, they'll know what to do with him. I'm sure if anything he'll be quite a hoot on the tour. 

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I would like to see Caleb get to the TOP 3 and experience his Home Visit.  That would be fun!  If he gets to TOP 5, then he would receive a contract with Disney Experience worth $50,000 for performing there.  He has a great voice and good stage presence and could possibly win this thing.  My wish is for him to sing some Journey!

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Meatloaf would be too obvious. People already say he looks like the lovechild of Jack Black and Meatloaf and just think of him as a joke contestant. Doing a Meatloaf song would only make that comparison more obvious and people would not take him seriously at all. Kind of like how they stuck Jessica with TWO Stevie Nicks songs. We get it, she sounds like Stevie. No need to keep reminding us though.

I want to see Caleb sing a Soundgarden song. His voice is nearly identical to Chris Cornell's and he counts Chris as a vocal influence of his. I think he'd do an amazing job on Spoonman. 

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Okay, help me out here... I don't get Caleb.

He has a terrific voice for stage (imo) but whenever he performs all I see is someone in a cheesy "!!Rock'n'Roll!!" routine on a cruise ship. Or a theme park. It feels like the sanitized impersonation of a rock artist. He sucked the life right out of Chain of Fools, imo. It's a great song that can translate to a rock version quite well, but he took all the soul and grit right out of it. Removed all the edge from Radioactive. I'm not really a Rush fan (you know how you can appreciate someone but it's not your cup of tea?) but oh lordy when he did Working Man... but the drummer dragged that version down so I'm assigning blame all around.

All JMO! Not trying to be ornery here, I'm just curious what others find appealing or how/why he affects them. What am I missing?

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glowlights- I can see how Caleb can come off very Rock of Ages/Jack Black in School of Rock… even the judges commented about that in Hollywood Week. Part of it I think is the way he dresses. I think the stylists did amazing with him when he sang Skyfall and that was a performance where I think people also took him more seriously as an artist. I think he just pushes the "I'm rock n roll" agenda too hard. We get it, you like rock music and you are a rockstar. But I think sometimes he could tone it down a little, maybe cut out those antics like falling down on the floor at the end of the performance. I love Caleb and appreciate him for who he is, but at the same time I can understand why some people may not take him seriously and think there are things he could do differently that would make people see him in a different way. 

Personally what I love about him is that he's the most consistent of any of the contestants. He's auditioned already 3 times for the show, so he's definitely persistent. He has one of the greatest voices in the industry right now, especially for a rock singer. You don't find many current rock singers who can wail like he can. And I think most people forget how young he actually is. He's only 22 (even though he looks a lot older) but already he looks and sounds like a seasoned performer that could hold his own with any rock band. Idol hasn't had a true rocker like him since probably Season 10 with James Durbin. And James couldn't really handle those high notes quite like Caleb can. 

I think Caleb's main issue is that he is too theatrical and over the top. Kind of like Angie Miller was in Season 12. However, instead of trying to stifle those qualities about a performer, I feel like he, as well as people like Angie and Malaya, would do really well in theater or Broadway. I definitely feel like Caleb could easily star in a Rock of Ages type show in Vegas or something. Taylor Hicks has made a living doing Vegas shows and I think Caleb could do the same. I think he would be happy there. I definitely don't want people to try to change him and tell him he should lose those theatrical qualities about himself because I don't think he would be very happy with people trying to change him. Instead they should find a place for him where those qualities would work, like Broadway or a Vegas show. 

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I like his voice. I like that he actually has stage presence and performs. I like that his pitch is usually pretty good.

His sound is a bit dated and I didn't much care for his last performance, but overall he has been very consistent and more interesting than most of the rest of the cast.

Simply not sucking has been enough to get a leg up on the bottom 3 most weeks this season, though as more of the consistently bottom dwelling contestants drop off, I think he'll have to do more too keep front runner status.

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I keep wondering why he didn't go audition for The Voice. No offense to him, but everyone knows Idol is a sinking ship, even if they are the only show to keep consistently producing successful winners. After being rejected twice in the past, it puzzles me why on earth he would audition again (unless he thought third time could be the charm like it was for Candice) He has a killer voice and could have gone very far on The Voice, perhaps even won, easily. Maybe he thought the coaches would not understand his style?

I don't think it's his sound that's outdated, as it is so much his clothing style. He has proven that he can make his voice work for modern songs like Skyfall, Pressure and Time, and Edge of Glory. I don't think it's his voice that's the issue (and I happen to really enjoy his classic rock, Chris Cornell-esque sound), it's the fact he dresses like he's still in the 1970s. When he dresses in more modern clothing, he looks fine though.

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I'm not really sure how voice auditions work, but I don't think they are mass open casting calls like idol, since they don't need bad audition footage as filler. Could be he did try out or whatever you do, but didn't get selected for the blinds.

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Hi BogoGog, Thanks for those insights.... and for not jumping down my throat. :) I didn't know he'd auditioned a few times before. To me that shows persistence and he doesn't buckle under rejection, which is important in that business. (I also didn't know Taylor Hicks was performing in Vegas!) You make a good point re: consistency. Even when his performance is less than stellar he hasn't totally laid an egg, vocally. Maybe if he manages to pull off a ballad it will show more nuance and that he can emotionally connect with lyrics instead of just power-housing. As someone else here mentioned (I think?), Freddy Mercury could sing slower songs like nobody's business. It's important not to be a one-trick pony. Anyway, I'll watch him again this week and see if my impression changes.
 

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Simply not sucking has been enough to get a leg up on the bottom 3 most weeks this season, though as more of the consistently bottom dwelling contestants drop off, I think he'll have to do more too keep front runner status.

LOL That's a good way to put it! I think you're right about his pitch - at least he (apparently) has a good ear. Sometimes I don't know if some other contestants know they're off pitch or off key and are having a hard time that night, or if they just seriously don't hear it. One thing about Caleb is that I doubt he'd ever need auto-tune.

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I won't reveal the song spoiler but I can tell you Caleb is singing a ballad tonight. And from the short preview on Amazon of his studio version, he sounds great!

joystickenvy- Anyone can actually audition for The Voice. You first have to register on their website and create an artist account and pick a time and location you want to audition at. If anyone is bad, they are just simply not chosen to advance. I would like to know what Caleb was doing while Season 12 was taking place, if maybe he did audition for The Voice then. As good of a voice as he has, I could see them not picking him because of his "outdated" style or maybe they didn't think he was a serious enough artist. Maybe we'll find out when he interviews with Slezak.

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I don't think it's his sound that's outdated, as it is so much his clothing style. He has proven that he can make his voice work for modern songs like Skyfall, Pressure and Time, and Edge of Glory. I don't think it's his voice that's the issue (and I happen to really enjoy his classic rock, Chris Cornell-esque sound), it's the fact he dresses like he's still in the 1970s. When he dresses in more modern clothing, he looks fine though.

His sound may or may not be out-dated - everything else about him is.  Frankly, I've  yet to hear or see anything from him that makes me think of him as something other than a tribute band lead singer.  I don't think he has an identity other than "classic rock" - he needs to do something to distinguish himself from other people with similar voices - something uniquely him.

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His sound may or may not be out-dated - everything else about him is.  Frankly, I've  yet to hear or see anything from him that makes me think of him as something other than a tribute band lead singer.  I don't think he has an identity other than "classic rock" - he needs to do something to distinguish himself from other people with similar voices - something uniquely him.

Go on YouTube and search "Caleb Johnson- Down By the River" I think you'll find what you're looking for there. ;)

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I spent a bit of time on You Tube yesterday listening to a few of his original songs.  I like "Down By the River", but prefer "Left to Die".  They do, however, have that 70s Southern Rock sound, which is probably why I like them.  Funny, though, his band has one called "Eye of the Witch" that sounds like it was right out of the L.A. club scene of the late 80s.

Edited by Shannon L.

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Whether his sound is "outdated" or "tribute band singer" or not, there are clearly people who enjoy his sound. He is one of the few contestants left to have never been in the bottom 3 and his songs have been charting well on iTunes (his highest charting song was Faithfully, reaching #2 on iTunes Rock) He is one of the few contestants who has any sort of charisma or any idea how to work a stage/audience. The others are like deer in headlights. He seems the most ready of any of them. All he needs is more variety. I do agree with the judges that he likes to be loud all the time, even on ballads. He has to think of the show like a concert and really strip it down one week and not seem like a one-trick pony. If he can figure out how to add some variety, he could turn out to be the most marketable and successful contestant of the season. He is ready to rock arenas, for sure. The song he did called "Pressure and Time" was by a modern band, but has an old-school sound. He's clearly got fans who dig that classic sound. As long as there is an audience out there who's willing to buy his albums and concert tickets, it doesn't matter how "outdated" his style is. There are quite a few artists today who have done retro music with a modern twist such as Adele, Haley Reinhart, and Ariana Grande. No saying that Caleb couldn't possibly do the same. He has also shown a lot of promise, at least to me, as an actor. His impressions of the contestants and judges had me in tears. He could possibly go into a Rock of Ages type of thing or a rock-styled Broadway show. He has more possibilities than some of the others do. Some of them can't even get past the issue of singing in tune.

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Whether his sound is "outdated" or "tribute band singer" or not, there are clearly people who enjoy his sound.

In case you didn't catch it, I made a typo in my post.  It was supposed to read "that's why I like them."  :)  I don't know if my post prompted your most recent one, but I wanted you to know that while I have issues with Caleb, I do really like his sound and agree that he's the most seasoned and consistent contestant this year.

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In case you didn't catch it, I made a typo in my post.  It was supposed to read "that's why I like them."  :)  I don't know if my post prompted your most recent one, but I wanted you to know that while I have issues with Caleb, I do really like his sound and agree that he's the most seasoned and consistent contestant this year.

Oh no it didn't! I was just making a general comment because I've seen several people say they think he's outdated and that they can't see him being marketable in the present music industry. They concede he's talented but don't know where they see him in the music industry today. However, as I stated, plenty of artists go for a retro sound whether it's pop, R&B, rock, etc. but find a way to incorporate a modern twist. If Caleb found the right producers, I'm sure he could do the same. Clearly people like what he's bringing to the table as it is, so "marketability" is probably not something he needs to really worry about at the present moment.

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Go on YouTube and search "Caleb Johnson- Down By the River" I think you'll find what you're looking for there. ;)

I did and I am still less than impressed; there is something that is missing from the performances. 

 

I thought, that while he sang Family Tree well enough, it still sounded and felt very dated.

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I wonder if Caleb will do anything interesting and different tonight.  Still loved Keith Urban's sly comment to him last night after he had done his second song.  I believe that was a nice nudge in the the "time to stretch a little" direction instead of doing the same thing.  

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I agree. I love Caleb and love his style but we've seen him essentially do the same thing every week. We all know he can do the hard rock stuff really well, time to see something else. It depends on what fans requested though. Personally I'd love to see him get up there with nothing but an acoustic guitar and sing something quiet. Not Hallelujah, but a song like Hallelujah, that is quiet the whole way through. He doesn't seem to understand what the judges are trying to tell him. He though Skyfall, Edge of Glory, and Faithfully were "quiet" and different enough but he still did the "big scream" thing like he always does. He doesn't seem to get what a "quiet" song actually means. 

Edited by BogoGog24

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I don't think there's any derailing--didn't the singers get a short list to choose from?  I can see him singing that song, but dear God, I hate it with the heat of a thousand burning suns! 

Edited by Shannon L.

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Oh darn. Sorry about the link. What I think; and I could be way off base, is that viewers/fans submit a list and then the producers scan through that list and eliminate for whatever reason songs they don't want the contestants to perform. Plus Dexter has already gone on record saying if he hadn't been eliminated he would have performed this song the following week. It's not like this song is some kind of hot commodity and everyone is clamoring to perform it. Too much of a coincidence.  jmho Doesn't matter who will/wants to perform it, it is just a tired old chestnut that should be taken out back and shot repeatedly. 

Edited by yourpointis
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The producers had final choice about what songs the contestants could perform (not exactly any different from usual). Perhaps there were other songs requested that they couldn't get cleared. I remember requesting, for example, that Caleb do "Yellin' From the Rooftop" by Danielle Bradbery, but I'm sure that one wouldn't be considered since she's from The Voice. My other request was "Spoonman" by Soundgarden. I'm still hoping he'll do a Soundgarden or CCR song. I think he would do Black Hole Sun or Fortunate Son really well.

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I just saw the updated list.  Not a good week for Caleb.  I mean, I loved my hair metal back in the day and I still love some of it, but "Still of the Night" by Whitesnake?  Really?  If it had to be Whitesnake, I'd have gone with "Here I Go Again" and even that is kind of "meh" after all of these years (for me, at least).  I've already made my opinion known on the other piece of dreck he's singing. 

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I thought Caleb slayed the Whitesnake song. He did okay with the Aerosmith song but the beginning was a little off. I saw many people anticipating the Whitesnake song would be trouble but it ended up being the best performance, basically next to Say Something, of the entire night.

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I saw many people anticipating the Whitesnake song would be trouble but it ended up being the best performance, basically next to Say Something, of the entire night.

I stand corrected. 

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I didn't like his first song, because he couldn't sing it well and his weaknesses showed greatly.  I didn't like his second song because I have such dislike for that type of music, however he sang it on key and performed in a lively manner so I am guessing that qualifies for the better of the night.  

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I didn't like his first song, because he couldn't sing it well and his weaknesses showed greatly.  I didn't like his second song because I have such dislike for that type of music, however he sang it on key and performed in a lively manner so I am guessing that qualifies for the better of the night.  

 

I was surprised that Caleb wasn't called out for being flat for nearly all of "Don't Wanna Miss a Thing" ..... what that song proves (to me anyway) that Caleb can only perform belty songs dialed to eleven.

 

What's interesting (again to me) is that when I mute the sound and watch Caleb he's entertaining (if a wee bit too contrived) yet when listen without the visual his voice is unimpressive.

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He was flat.  And it was horrible.  And I cannot believe that HCJ did not say something, which leads me to believe they have been told to leave Caleb alone so he can be in the finale.  

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Caleb was off in the beginning on the Aerosmith song but once he hit the glory note he was fine. It is an issue that these seem to be the only kinds of songs he can perform though. A whole album or a whole concert of that would get old.

 

The tone of his voice may be nothing different from any rock frontman, but to say his voice is not impressive? Listen to the glory notes he hit in the Whitesnake song. It's extremely difficult to be able to scream high notes like that without straining your voice (a la Gokey) He has incredible range and he knows how to use it. His voice is one of the best to ever appear on Idol. If Caleb's voice is deemed "unimpressive" then I don't honestly know how good someone has to be to be deemed worthy of "impressive."

 

The person who I really find has an unimpressive voice is Jessica, actually. Everyone keeps saying how great of a voice she has. It's nothing special to me at all and she has no control over her vibrato. THAT is what I would call an "unimpressive" voice. Caleb is miles better than she could ever be.

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The person who I really find has an unimpressive voice is Jessica, actually. Everyone keeps saying how great of a voice she has. It's nothing special to me at all and she has no control over her vibrato. THAT is what I would call an "unimpressive" voice. Caleb is miles better than she could ever be.

 This is all subjective though.  There are many who love her voice.  I think she needs a little coaching and she would be fantastic as a singer.  As you say its nothing special you also have to realize that is your taste.  I myself feel like a plank of wood when Caleb sings (and that's on a good song, never mind the slow off-key drivel from his first song last night)  I don't see what the hullabaloo is about Caleb and yet that is only my opinion.  If we all liked the same and felt the same by something we would live in Lego World where everything is awesome.   Your statement that Caleb is miles better is just your opinion and everyone has one as you know.  It's like elections, you pick who you feel is the best and stand by it, but it doesn't make it true for everyone.

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The tone of his voice may be nothing different from any rock frontman, but to say his voice is not impressive? Listen to the glory notes he hit in the Whitesnake song. It's extremely difficult to be able to scream high notes like that without straining your voice (a la Gokey) He has incredible range and he knows how to use it. His voice is one of the best to ever appear on Idol. If Caleb's voice is deemed "unimpressive" then I don't honestly know how good someone has to be to be deemed worthy of "impressive."

 

 

I hear those "glory notes" and I'm still not impressed - Carrie Underwood, Kelly Clarkson, Clay Akien, Adam Lambert, Candice Glover, Chris Daughtry, and even Kathryn McPhee all hit "glory notes" - I found those voices impressive (even if some of them aren't my cuppa) - they all had the ability to modulate their voices and presented different styles that tickled your listening ear.

 

The issue I have with Caleb is that unless he's at the top of his range and belting he isn't a very strong singer.  Sure he looks the part and is generally entertaining to watch; however while just listening I do not find him very impressive or interesting.

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Maybe so but when you compare him to the rest he's the only one that seems to have any charisma as a performer (maybe aside from Jena, who a lot of people say just seems fake and put on) If we had Chris's and Adams lumped in to this same season, maybe they'd give Caleb a run for his money. But this season there weren't all that many impressive singers, so in comparison, Caleb seems amazing. Clearly there are many people who like his style anyway, since he's never been in the bottom 2 or 3. I think he has a way larger fan base than people would be led to believe- his core audience just isn't very present on social media so people get the impression he is not that well liked.

 

Yeah everything is subjective but I think it ends at a certain point- I mean, Kelly Clarkson, for example, is a far better singer than someone like Britney or Taylor could ever be. That's not subjective. That's about as much of a fact as it can possibly be because Britney and Taylor's vocal abilities, no matter how much training they go through, will never match Kelly's. There might be people who prefer Britney and Taylor over Kelly but that doesn't have anything to do with actual vocal ability. No matter how much training Jessica goes through, I still don't think her voice will ever be anywhere near Caleb's. Her vocal ability doesn't reach as far as his does, when you consider what Caleb has shown he can do with his voice. They're not even remotely on the same level, as far as I'm concerned.

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Again, subjective.  What you think he can do with his voice appeals to you.  To me it's not that impressive and Jessica's tones have much more potential if coached right.  And you are correct, as far as you are concerned they are not on the same level and as far as I am concerned, I think Jessica has an excellent voice and tone, and as far as Elmer Fudd is concerned, yadda yadda yadda yadda...see what I mean? Everyone gets an opinion.  Some like Bjork, some like Madonna, some like Rob Zombie, you know?  People get very invested in what appeals to them and don't understand why others don't see what they see.  

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Maybe so but when you compare him to the rest he's the only one that seems to have any charisma as a performer (maybe aside from Jena, who a lot of people say just seems fake and put on) If we had Chris's and Adams lumped in to this same season, maybe they'd give Caleb a run for his money. But this season there weren't all that many impressive singers, so in comparison, Caleb seems amazing. Clearly there are many people who like his style anyway, since he's never been in the bottom 2 or 3. I think he has a way larger fan base than people would be led to believe- his core audience just isn't very present on social media so people get the impression he is not that well liked.

 

Yeah everything is subjective but I think it ends at a certain point- I mean, Kelly Clarkson, for example, is a far better singer than someone like Britney or Taylor could ever be. That's not subjective. That's about as much of a fact as it can possibly be because Britney and Taylor's vocal abilities, no matter how much training they go through, will never match Kelly's. There might be people who prefer Britney and Taylor over Kelly but that doesn't have anything to do with actual vocal ability. No matter how much training Jessica goes through, I still don't think her voice will ever be anywhere near Caleb's. Her vocal ability doesn't reach as far as his does, when you consider what Caleb has shown he can do with his voice. They're not even remotely on the same level, as far as I'm concerned.

 

Since this is Caleb's thread, I'll say that Caleb is what is he and does what he does which is loud blast rock....in my opinion .  He apparently can't sing a soft ballad on key imo because that Aero song would have been a super chance to shine and imo he did not. He pulled it out there at the end, but I had to suffer through the flat, weak, really bad beginning to get there. Ouch. It was stripped down and he didn't kill it for me. Additionally, comparing Caleb to Jessica is apples and bananas imo. Same for comparing Alex and Caleb. They're just very different and appeal to different folks. That's the beauty of the world; Everyone can like what they choose to enjoy. I can prefer Jessica and Alex without stomping on Caleb and I can acknowledge what Caleb does bring to the table like that Whitesnake performance, which I liked, even if he bugs me somewhat.

 

I really enjoyed Caleb's duet with Jessica.

Edited by ari333
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The person who I really find has an unimpressive voice is Jessica, actually. Everyone keeps saying how great of a voice she has. It's nothing special to me at all and she has no control over her vibrato. THAT is what I would call an "unimpressive" voice. Caleb is miles better than she could ever be.

I like both of their voices and think they are both quite good at what they are good at. Neither one of them seems to have any spectacular degree of technical aptitude or exceptional range, but both can be improved with training.

What they do have that I enjoy, is their tone. There are a few things in music that are objective like pitch, correct notes, etc. (though people's ability to accurately judge it varies wildly), but the vast majority of it is entirely subjective in terms of what constitutes "better."

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From what Caleb showed us last night, he seems to have an extremely wide range. He also showed it when he did Dazed and Confused. He's got to have at least 3 octaves, I'd say. I don't know if he's ever had vocal training, but he does seem to have the rock technique down- he never sounds like he's straining to hit the high notes. For those reasons alone, based on technical skill level, is why I say Caleb is far better than Jessica will ever be. You only have the range you are born with. Jessica probably has 2 octaves to her range and as I said, no control over her vibrato. Caleb probably has 3 octaves at least and seems to have better technique than she does. They're on totally different levels, in my opinion. You wouldn't say, for example, that Mariah Carey and Rebecca Black are on the same level of singing, would you? 

 

I definitely agree Caleb has a weakness with ballads. I'm a fan of his, but that doesn't mean I can't admit he has weaknesses. It's a completely fair and valid point to make- he struggled with pitch, I don't know if he was sick or maybe he ruined his voice from rehearsal, or it was just the song. He struggled with pitch a lot and doesn't seem to know how to dial his voice back. He really should try to work on it more because he can't make a whole album or do a whole concert of one kind of song. I love seeing his big rock performances every week, but if I watch them all in a row, I'd probably be like "Okay, what else you got?" I do think he's an extremely talented singer and performer and it'd be a shame for people to think of him as just a one-trick pony. With talent like his, he should try his best to become a more well-rounded singer than he is. But again, this is Idol, not The Voice, almost everyone who comes on this show is still a "work in progress" with some issue or other to work on. I'd say Caleb is far ahead of everyone else, even his "bad" performances are still better than some others'. At least he can do one type of song very well. Some of the others have much bigger issues they need to work on (like CJ who couldn't sing ANYTHING in tune, for example)

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Everyone has a physical limitation to their vocal range, but few people have a natural ability to use their entire range effectively without training. Caleb has not sounded good in his lower register on Idol. Jessica hasn't really attempted to go for the typical glory notes, so it's hard to judge with her, but I'm guessing her range is pretty average alto sort of range.

On average, men have more range than women, though obviously some individual women have more range than some individual men.

Caleb certainly has above average range on the upper end for a guy, but he has not demonstrated anything exceptional IMO.

I can't stand Mariah Carey and I have no idea who Rebecca Black is. Mariah can certainly screech a wide variety of notes, but she isn't tasteful. That's why better is in fact, subjective. Everyone's taste is different. Some people are impressed by range, others tone, others rhythm or originality or whatever.

Edited by Joystickenvy
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Some of the others have much bigger issues they need to work on (like CJ who couldn't sing ANYTHING in tune, for example)

 

some folks have bigger issues to work on for sure.

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Everyone has a physical limitation to their vocal range, but few people have a natural ability to use their entire range effectively without training. Caleb has not sounded good in his lower register on Idol. Jessica hasn't really attempted to go for the typical glory notes, so it's hard to judge with her, but I'm guessing her range is pretty average alto sort of range.

On average, men have more range than women, though obviously some individual women have more range than some individual men.

Caleb certainly has above average range on the upper end for a guy, but he has not demonstrated anything exceptional IMO.

I can't stand Mariah Carey and I have no idea who Rebecca Black is. Mariah can certainly screech a wide variety of notes, but she isn't tasteful. That's why better is in fact, subjective. Everyone's taste is different. Some people are impressed by range, others tone, others rhythm or originality or whatever.

Regarding Rebecca Black, does the song Friday mean anything to you?

 

My point is that there are some singers who 99.9% of the world would agree are better than others. Rebecca Black, well she's better now than she was when she made Friday, but she was a below average singer. Even if you don't care for Mariah, you have to admit she can sing. She has a 5 octave range plus whistle register. There's no denying she'd outsing Rebecca any day of the week. Preferring one over the other is one thing- but it's undeniable that Mariah, is in fact, a better singer than Rebecca is or ever would be. She has a far bigger range and better technique. Speaking from a technical level, it's entirely possible for one singer to, in fact, be better than another. It has nothing to do with personal preference. 

I mean, for the record, I don't even generally care that much for the big "diva" singers like Whitney, Mariah, or Celine, but I do recognize that they are all world-renowned singers and are deemed some of the best voices of our generation. I may not personally care for them, but they all have far above average voices. You can acknowledge something is good without personally liking it.

Edited by BogoGog24

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1) not everyone agrees on what constitutes better technique. 2) not everyone agrees that better technique= better singer

Case in point the Keith/Harry disagreement about whether CJ's supposed uber storytelling ability trumped his constant pitch issues or all the kvetching about how Jessica's supposed lack of "connection" negates her vocal abilities.

My personal opinion is that you have to take the total package, including the subjective factors, into account and thus there is no such thing as a "clearly better than xyz singer could ever be" singer based on anything other than opinion.

Clearly you disagree, so I reckon at this point we can agree to disagree.

In Caleb's case, I think he has benefited from mostly being very consistently more on pitch than most, though he stumbled this week, having a clear grasp of what he is good at and making good use of his strengths, while mostly minimizing his weaknesses, but I think to claim he is "undeniably" and "clearly" better than Jessica (or anyone else) is representing opinion as fact.

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Basically what I think is that Caleb is on an entirely different level than everyone else, singing and performing wise. He's the only one I could see being good enough to compete on The Voice, the others are nowhere close. Maybe Sam but only based on vocal ability.

 

For the record, I do take into account everything about a singer, such as pitch, tone, range, and technique, when deciding whether or not I like a singer. Personally I just don't feel like Jessica or any of the other singers left can match Caleb's vocal ability and most likely never will, no matter how much training they receive. At some point opinion DOES become fact. My dad cannot sing a note in tune to save his life, whereas I can sing pretty well. It's a fact I'm a better singer than my dad could ever be. Some people are just better singers, no question, than others, despite personal preference. For example, I like both Ariana Grande and Miley Cyrus and think both have great voices. They are both very very different voices, but I think both are great in their own ways. Now comparing Ariana to somebody like JLo who could probably barely sing a note… there's no question who's the better singer of the 2.

 

Well whatever, it's clear we'll never agree, even though I think I make a perfectly valid point.

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I agree that Caleb is the best singer (technically) out of this bunch, but he is unimpressive by normal Idol standards. The fact that this year's talent is so abysmal is the only reason he seems great. He is technically inferior to many of Idol's previous contestants. The top 4 from last year alone are all easily better singers than him. I don't consider America's vote barometers of anything really, considering winners like Taylor Hicks, Lee DeWyze, Scotty McCreery, and Phillip Phillips. And The Voice is where talent goes to die, even if the judges on that show think everyone is "amazing," "incredible," "destined to be a star," etc.

 

I do think Caleb's going to win at this point. He's white, average looking, a rock contestant, Southern, male--all the things that would appeal to the current demographics of American Idol.

Edited by TheGreenKnight
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